PDA

View Full Version : orton better then cassel



marloweopatchiefs
12-18-2011, 01:55 PM
Anyone who thinks otherwise i don't know what to tell you. I don't ever remember cassel moving the Offense like this this yera

figcrostic
12-18-2011, 01:57 PM
Anyone who thinks otherwise i don't know what to tell you. I don't ever remember cassel moving the Offense like this this yera

I've always thought he was better very underrated, look at me previous post if you want proof.

jap1
12-18-2011, 03:53 PM
I am curious if it is Cassel, the OL blocking for once, better playcalling, or some combination of all that.

I know for a fact there has been much better OL pass blocking play today. I think the play calling has been MUCH better too.

marloweopatchiefs
12-18-2011, 04:01 PM
I am curious if it is Cassel, the OL blocking for once, better playcalling, or some combination of all that.

I know for a fact there has been much better OL pass blocking play today. I think the play calling has been MUCH better too.


No way in blue hell would cassel would have the numbers orton put up today. I assure you orton will be our starter next year not cassel if the chiefs are smart

hardcorechiefsfan
12-18-2011, 04:04 PM
Orton is great for the chiefs! Cassel should be nervous.

jap1
12-18-2011, 04:09 PM
No way in blue hell would cassel would have the numbers orton put up today. I assure you orton will be our starter next year not cassel if the chiefs are smart

Cassel has had many statistically better games. It is hard to tell if it is Orton, or everything else. I am going to respectfully disagree, and hope the people who know the players better (coaches and GM) make the right decision.

ctchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm not ready to say Cassel should be out of a job, but Orton sure did look impressive out there. Cassel should be sweating bullets. One game does not a career make.

azchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 04:17 PM
Let's see, Orton had protection and the run was working from the first play. Hm, nope, Cassel couldn't benefit from those improvements.....he rolls his eyes and walks away mumbling.

figcrostic
12-18-2011, 04:21 PM
Let's see, Orton had protection and the run was working from the first play. Hm, nope, Cassel couldn't benefit from those improvements.....he rolls his eyes and walks away mumbling.

The run game was working because Orton was a threat, protection was working because when they tried to bum rush him he picked them apart, and Orton has deep threat ability unlike Cassel.

matthewschiefs
12-18-2011, 04:23 PM
I'm not ready to say Cassel should be out of a job, but Orton sure did look impressive out there. Cassel should be sweating bullets. One game does not a career make.

I agree. But the fact that this was Ortons first game with the Chiefs does lead one to think that Cassel might want to be looking into other locations. But lets see what Orton does the rest of the season first.

azchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 04:24 PM
No, Sir, that is untrue. The run was established and the passing game followed. How many times in the first quarter did GB bite on the screen because of the run threat? The effective run drove the passing game and controlled the clock.

jap1
12-18-2011, 04:26 PM
The run game was working because Orton was a threat, protection was working because when they tried to bum rush him he picked them apart, and Orton has deep threat ability unlike Cassel.

Then why were we able to run the ball so effectively on the last drive, when there was no question about whether we would run or pass.

On the same note, our goalline run blocking was horrenous. When it is a matter of outpowering the guy in front of you, our guys plain suck inside. Our only success running was on the outside when we were able to make a seal.

OMGLadyGaga
12-18-2011, 04:26 PM
Orton has always been better than Cassel. The people who were saying that Orton actually throws the ball downfield were absolutely right. Chiefs have a lot of weapons in teh pass game, Cassel and Palko didn't know how to use em. Orton definitely does. Not bad for only being here less than a month and beating the GB packers

OPLookn
12-18-2011, 04:28 PM
No, Sir, that is untrue. The run was established and the passing game followed. How many times in the first quarter did GB bite on the screen because of the run threat? The effective run drove the passing game and controlled the clock.

Orton was making quick throws and reading the D quickly. Cassel simply doesn't do that, this is going to be a chicken or the egg argument for a lot of people.

Bottom line we need to see how Orton plays the next few games before we declare him our guy. But he made a HUGE statement today that he should be the starter. I could see how it'd be different with Cassel with him historically hanging onto the ball an absurd amount of times and then taking a long time to throw.

azchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 04:29 PM
Any QB, including Cassel, can throw when given time and time was a commodity Orton had today and Cassel didn't previously. The bandwagon shows up to lead the parade again...seriously?

N TX Dave
12-18-2011, 04:30 PM
Cassel has had many statistically better games. It is hard to tell if it is Orton, or everything else. I am going to respectfully disagree, and hope the people who know the players better (coaches and GM) make the right decision.

As long as they do not let contracts dictate who plays like a few years ago in the playoffs the QB came back from an injury and they started him and lost and let the better QB go to the tRaidiers and the SB no names I will trust them.

But before we adorn him as QBOTF lets see how he plays the last two game. He did do a great on play action though.

I will say the blocking by the OL was the same players as the last fews games so why was it that much better. I think it was 100% play calling which got 8/9 guys out of the block and forced them to play the whole field and not just 10 yards.

:chiefs: WINS :chiefs: WINS

OPLookn
12-18-2011, 04:31 PM
Then why were we able to run the ball so effectively on the last drive, when there was no question about whether we would run or pass.

On the same note, our goalline run blocking was horrenous. When it is a matter of outpowering the guy in front of you, our guys plain suck inside. Our only success running was on the outside when we were able to make a seal.

When you're trying to run down the clock a team is going to stack the middle. We closed the edges and ran outside going down before going out of bounds. That's why we were able to run it so effectively. Another reason is the flip side of what we've been experiencing. The Chiefs had the Packers D out on the field for 36 minutes....36!

Our goal line run blocking was horrible because of what Nicfre2011 has been saying for quite some time. Weigmann is good but old and undersized, Lilja is undersized too and then you've got Raji going up aginst them. Were you really expecting something different there? That's why people have been screaming to draft and get more free agent O-line.

OPLookn
12-18-2011, 04:31 PM
Any QB, including Cassel, can throw when given time and time was a commodity Orton had today and Cassel didn't previously. The bandwagon shows up to lead the parade again...seriously?

Did we or did we not have the EXACT same line in there for Cassel as we did for Orton?

Hayvern
12-18-2011, 04:32 PM
Again, just like it is too early. To say crennel will be head coach it is too early to say Orton is the new qb. But continued play like today may very well land Jim a contract at Kansas city next year if Orton wants one.

azchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 04:34 PM
Did we or did we not have the EXACT same line in there for Cassel as we did for Orton?

Sure and Cassel won the games they gave some time to, just like today. I am not going to say Cassel should automatically be the starter. If Orton can lead this team better, I am ready for the change. But this bandwagon mentality is detrimental to the long-term health of our team.

kcvet
12-18-2011, 04:37 PM
im still not believing what I just saw. I do think Cassel my be looking for a new home. congrads RC as well. that's coming out with a big time bang

jap1
12-18-2011, 04:37 PM
When you're trying to run down the clock a team is going to stack the middle. We closed the edges and ran outside going down before going out of bounds. That's why we were able to run it so effectively. Another reason is the flip side of what we've been experiencing. The Chiefs had the Packers D out on the field for 36 minutes....36!

Our goal line run blocking was horrible because of what Nicfre2011 has been saying for quite some time. Weigmann is good but old and undersized, Lilja is undersized too and then you've got Raji going up aginst them. Were you really expecting something different there? That's why people have been screaming to draft and get more free agent O-line.

When Nicfre2011, said that, he got me thinking, and I have to say I am definitely in agreement. However, I have always been in favor of upgrading the OL this year. I hope today's inability to run was evidence that we need a new G and RT. One from free agency and the other in the draft.

OPLookn
12-18-2011, 04:38 PM
Sure and Cassel won the games they gave some time to, just like today. I am not going to say Cassel should automatically be the starter. If Orton can lead this team better, I am ready for the change. But this bandwagon mentality is detrimental to the long-term health of our team.

I'm all up for a challenge because I think Orton wins that challenge but that's just my thought. Time will tell but as I said, Orton made a huge case to become the starter today. I think the "bandwagon" mentality comes from the want to win and being tired of seeing drive after drive stall.

:bananen_smilies046:

kcvet
12-18-2011, 04:38 PM
when we got the ball back late we kept it. that's how you win it. don't give it back

marloweopatchiefs
12-18-2011, 04:39 PM
wow lol people here defending cassel. Cassel would have lost today if he was in there. If the chiefs win out i wonder what people will say

figcrostic
12-18-2011, 04:40 PM
Then why were we able to run the ball so effectively on the last drive, when there was no question about whether we would run or pass.

On the same note, our goalline run blocking was horrenous. When it is a matter of outpowering the guy in front of you, our guys plain suck inside. Our only success running was on the outside when we were able to make a seal.

We wore them out, don't get me wrong we ran well but if you don't think Orton helped the run by making plays you are mistaken sir.

OPLookn
12-18-2011, 04:41 PM
wow lol people here defending cassel. Cassel would have lost today if he was in there. If the chiefs win out i wonder what people will say

I'm not a Cassel fan, in fact I've been loud in the call to replace him. But that's simply not true, we have no idea how Cassel would have done today. Cassel didn't have the benefit of Haley not being here.

nigeriannightmare
12-18-2011, 04:42 PM
Anyone who thinks otherwise i don't know what to tell you. I don't ever remember cassel moving the Offense like this this yera

I dont agree. Jackie battle was hitting holes hard today, receivers were running great routes play calling was better not one sack given up. Im stoked to have options now.

OPLookn
12-18-2011, 04:44 PM
We wore them out, don't get me wrong we ran well but if you don't think Orton helped the run by making plays you are mistaken sir.

Running the ball well is going to help any QB so that part is a moot point.

What I saw were passes that had zip on them being thrown quickly. Cassel has had 3 years here to build a relationship with the receivers and he still throws inaccurate balls. So Orton doing that today doesn't really cause concern.

The players also seemed to want to follow Orton more. Don't know if he's just more of a leader or if it's more Crennel. Either way it sounds like if the last two games turn out the same we'll officially have a QB controversy.

azchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 04:49 PM
Orton struggled throwing behind the receivers several times, too. But as the run game got better, he had more time and made better throws. Too many are putting the QB cart in front of the RB horse and that is history revision. He made several bad passes early on but settled down and made better plays as he got time. The OL and running game made his job much easier today.

N TX Dave
12-18-2011, 04:49 PM
I'm not a Cassel fan, in fact I've been loud in the call to replace him. But that's simply not true, we have no idea how Cassel would have done today. Cassel didn't have the benefit of Haley not being here.

And that my friend was the big difference today. I liked Haley and did not think he should be fired but with him still here we loose this game period. I guess there were things going on with the team that we did not see. It was Haley that insisted in playing Placko and not a front office directive.

Maybe our old OC is not as bad as we think he is the play calling today was so much better than anytime this year. I do not recall so many play actions or as many deep balls, as in over 10 yards not many runs between the tackles but more sweeps to force the other teams def to stop stacking the box.

SIC J
12-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Orton to me has always been inconsistent. Thankfully today he was consistent.

kcvet
12-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Orton struggled throwing behind the receivers several times, too. But as the run game got better, he had more time and made better throws. Too many are putting the QB cart in front of the RB horse and that is history revision. He made several bad passes early on but settled down and made better plays as he got time. The OL and running game made his job much easier today.

Orton and RC ran that O the way ive never seen it run in years. the O was clickin' today

GarH
12-18-2011, 04:57 PM
That was some of the best OL play we've had this year and the play calling was better. Orton had a lot of time back there. Let's watch the next two games and see if he is an upgrade or not.

chief31
12-18-2011, 05:59 PM
Orton was making quick throws and reading the D quickly. Cassel simply doesn't do that, this is going to be a chicken or the egg argument for a lot of people.

Bottom line we need to see how Orton plays the next few games before we declare him our guy. But he made a HUGE statement today that he should be the starter. I could see how it'd be different with Cassel with him historically hanging onto the ball an absurd amount of times and then taking a long time to throw.

Is this the same Kyle Orton that was being drummed out of town a week ago?

The same Kyle Orton that never wanted to be here?

But, to keep in the realm of reality, how many TDs did Orton throw today? How many drives did he lead for TDs?

The pass-blocking has been, sporadically, improving from the start of the season.

Love seeing it.

As for Orton vs. Cassel, we may find ourselves in very envious position at the end of the year, with Cassel and Orton competing for the starting job.

But to try and declare Orton the winner, without getting both guys competing on a level playing field, (same offense, at the same point of development) is the another knee-jerk reaction.

I think we would be in great shape with both guys competing for the starting position.

However, I think signing Orton may be pretty tough if Cassel is here.

It will be interesting to see if he is up for the challenge.

ctchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 06:15 PM
wow lol people here defending cassel. Cassel would have lost today if he was in there. If the chiefs win out i wonder what people will say

Actually, I don't see many people defending Cassel. What I see is a lot of people saying one game is not everything.

I think what people are saying is that Orton today became a contender for the starting job but hasn't sewed it up by any means.

ctchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Either way it sounds like if the last two games turn out the same we'll officially have a QB controversy.

IF Orton is willing to sign with the Chiefs. Which I think is very much in doubt.

ctchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 06:22 PM
And that my friend was the big difference today. I liked Haley and did not think he should be fired but with him still here we loose this game period. I guess there were things going on with the team that we did not see. It was Haley that insisted in playing Placko and not a front office directive.

Maybe our old OC is not as bad as we think he is the play calling today was so much better than anytime this year. I do not recall so many play actions or as many deep balls, as in over 10 yards not many runs between the tackles but more sweeps to force the other teams def to stop stacking the box.

I too defended Haley. Today convinced me that the team had lost faith in Haley and that firing him was the right decision.

ctchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 06:33 PM
But, to keep in the realm of reality, how many TDs did Orton throw today? How many drives did he lead for TDs?

Well said.


As for Orton vs. Cassel, we may find ourselves in very envious position at the end of the year, with Cassel and Orton competing for the starting job.

That would be really nice.....It would also be expensive. If Orton is willing to stay with the Chiefs, he is not going to do it on the cheap. He is going to want a bigger contract than Cassel has.


But to try and declare Orton the winner, without getting both guys competing on a level playing field, (same offense, at the same point of development) is the another knee-jerk reaction.

EXACTLY!!!

I think we would be in great shape with both guys competing for the starting position.


However, I think signing Orton may be pretty tough if Cassel is here.

Only way I can see Orton staying here with Cassel still on the roster is if he get's a bigger contract than Cassel got. I have a hard time seeing us do that and am far from sure it would be a good idea. I think one of the two will be gone very soon.

OPLookn
12-18-2011, 07:42 PM
Is this the same Kyle Orton that was being drummed out of town a week ago?


By some perhaps but not me, I was still in the wait and see position.



The same Kyle Orton that never wanted to be here?


I'll admit that initially I didn't want Orton to be here when it was just 6 games for 2.5 million. But when I found out that we'd get him as a QB and if he doesn't stay we get a compensation pick I had in a post that I was warming up to the idea and leaning towards getting him.



But, to keep in the realm of reality, how many TDs did Orton throw today? How many drives did he lead for TDs?

The pass-blocking has been, sporadically, improving from the start of the season.

Love seeing it.

As for Orton vs. Cassel, we may find ourselves in very envious position at the end of the year, with Cassel and Orton competing for the starting job.


I hate having to answer a question with a question but how many games did he sit out? How much of the Chiefs offense does he know?

Orton is shaking the rust off and he had one TD drive. We called running plays for 2/3rd of our red zone plays when screens and other passes were what got us there. So to me the lack of throwing a TD pass is a moot point because we were running or he was still trying to get the timing and relationship with the receivers.




But to try and declare Orton the winner, without getting both guys competing on a level playing field, (same offense, at the same point of development) is the another knee-jerk reaction.

I think we would be in great shape with both guys competing for the starting position.

However, I think signing Orton may be pretty tough if Cassel is here.

It will be interesting to see if he is up for the challenge.

No where did I say that Orton is the winner...I said that if he plays the same way in the next two games that he should at the very least be given the opportunity to compete if not be given the job. If you were saying that I said that then that's the only knee-jerk reaction I've seen.

azchiefsfan
12-18-2011, 07:46 PM
Absolutely Orton should be given the opportunity to compete for the starting position. Likewise, so should Cassel. But as much as I like Cassel, I am willing to let Orton prove he deserves to start next year. I think if these next two games go reasonably well for Orton, he will want to stay and work to start.

Coach
12-18-2011, 07:52 PM
IF Orton is willing to sign with the Chiefs. Which I think is very much in doubt.

Exactly. I think this is the piece everyone is forgetting about. I'm pretty sure Orton is a free agent at the en of the season. If so, he is auditioning for his next contract. Are we gonna pay him top $? Doubtful. I hope we can find a way to keep him. If we would have been able to play him sooner we might of been talking playoffs.

Ryfo18
12-18-2011, 07:54 PM
Cassel and Orton are about the same quarterback...The Chiefs defense that I have been touting all year won the game today. Put behind a defense that is capable of stopping anyone, a competent quarterback can win a game.

If the Chiefs would realize that they are only an elite quarterback away from competing for super bowls, this fan base coulb be very happy.

josh1971
12-18-2011, 07:56 PM
Guys... guys!

The important thing is that Tyler Palko is nowhere near the field.

GarH
12-18-2011, 08:04 PM
No way should the Chiefs give Orton a bigger contract than Cassel. The Chiefs already overspent on Cassel. No reason to do it again.

Bike
12-18-2011, 08:08 PM
Guys... guys!

The important thing is that Tyler Palko is nowhere near the field.
He never should have been. Haley is a fool and this is partly why is was fired imo.

okikcfan
12-18-2011, 08:22 PM
I think the offense not only lost faith in Haley but in Cassel as well and it showed today! just my point of view ofcourse...

70 chiefsfan70
12-18-2011, 08:46 PM
I think the offense not only lost faith in Haley but in Cassel as well and it showed today! just my point of view ofcourse...


It may be your point of view but it is mine as well, I've been saying that for weeks now, I think every player including the OL, plays better without Cassel in there. Cassel has lost this team. I say if we don't sign Orton, we draft the best qb left, better yet trade up to get RG3.


I've been saying for a couple of years that I thought Cassel was the weakest link on this team. Not because of his stats, but because of his lack of leadership.

marloweopatchiefs
12-18-2011, 08:58 PM
Exactly. I think this is the piece everyone is forgetting about. I'm pretty sure Orton is a free agent at the en of the season. If so, he is auditioning for his next contract. Are we gonna pay him top $? Doubtful. I hope we can find a way to keep him. If we would have been able to play him sooner we might of been talking playoffs.


Coach, I disagree if he continues to win i wouldn't see why he wouldn't wanna sign with the chiefs if they wanna make him the starter.

marloweopatchiefs
12-18-2011, 08:59 PM
No way should the Chiefs give Orton a bigger contract than Cassel. The Chiefs already overspent on Cassel. No reason to do it again.

If he wins we should

N TX Dave
12-18-2011, 09:05 PM
If he wins we should


No way should the Chiefs give Orton a bigger contract than Cassel. The Chiefs already overspent on Cassel. No reason to do it again.

But if he wins the last two games and continues to look good cut Cassel and Orton Cassel's money.

chief31
12-18-2011, 09:09 PM
I hate having to answer a question with a question but how many games did he sit out? How much of the Chiefs offense does he know?

Orton is shaking the rust off and he had one TD drive. We called running plays for 2/3rd of our red zone plays when screens and other passes were what got us there. So to me the lack of throwing a TD pass is a moot point because we were running or he was still trying to get the timing and relationship with the receivers.

Seeing as how my point was that declaring Orton the starter for 2012, based on today's performance, the fact that he threw for zero TDs and an offense that didn't score 20 points is 100% applicable.


No where did I say that Orton is the winner...

Nowhere did I accuse you.



I said that if he plays the same way in the next two games that he should at the very least be given the opportunity to compete if not be given the job. If you were saying that I said that then that's the only knee-jerk reaction I've seen.

If I were, then I would agree that it was a knee-jerk reaction on my part.

But I was not.

I did not address you in any way.

You don't think that would fall under the "knee-jerk" section, on your part, do you?

:lol:

Just kidding.

No harm, no foul.

chiefnut
12-18-2011, 09:12 PM
look Orton and the whole team played great today! however as i have posted before this was a perfect trap game scenario for the pack. lets not get carried away about anything yet, there is a good chance if we had to replay the pack next week they win by 40pts. they had no info on this game to prepare a gameplan for and we had plenty. wait till the end of the season , after we play the broncs and raders again to see if we continue to look like a new team or if we revert to the haley CHIEFS! i for one expect us to look better and win these games but not to be dominant against either one. we will eek out 2 wins and that is just fine w/me and finish 8-8 which is a whole lot better than it looked just a few weeks ago.

Vandelay
12-18-2011, 11:02 PM
It seems to me like Orton has a quicker release than Cassel. Looked evident on the WR screens.

Chiefster
12-19-2011, 01:01 AM
I would like to see us retain Orton after the season and give him an opportunity to compete for the starting job.

ctchiefsfan
12-19-2011, 01:07 AM
Exactly. I think this is the piece everyone is forgetting about. I'm pretty sure Orton is a free agent at the en of the season. If so, he is auditioning for his next contract. Are we gonna pay him top $? Doubtful. I hope we can find a way to keep him. If we would have been able to play him sooner we might of been talking playoffs.

And therein lies the issue.

I'd love to see the two of them battling for the starting job next training camp, but I just don't see it happening. IMO we are going to have to decide who our starting QB next year is at the end of this season.

I'm not sold on Cassel.....

But ONE GAME isn't selling me on Orton either.

Jrudi
12-19-2011, 10:20 AM
Enough said, This game proves that we have been lacking talent at the QB position.

I said multiple times after Cassel got hurt that I realized our O-line is not as bad as it is made out to be, and that a better QB would prove that.

Not sure if anyone took a look at Orton's Jersey at the end of the game..... NO GRASS STAINS WHATSOEVER! It looked like he had just put it on!

Congrats to Orton, tosses a wrench into the idea of who the QB will be next year, I like Orton but I'm still thinking I would like to see us get a younger prospect to groom.

Maybe now we look to trade Cassel for like a 3rd rounder, Re-sign Orton to a 2 year deal, and draft a QB to groom for a year or two.

Ryfo18
12-19-2011, 10:29 AM
Enough said, This game proves that we have been lacking talent at the QB position.

I said multiple times after Cassel got hurt that I realized our O-line is not as bad as it is made out to be, and that a better QB would prove that.

Not sure if anyone took a look at Orton's Jersey at the end of the game..... NO GRASS STAINS WHATSOEVER! It looked like he had just put it on!

Congrats to Orton, tosses a wrench into the idea of who the QB will be next year, I like Orton but I'm still thinking I would like to see us get a younger prospect to groom.

Maybe now we look to trade Cassel for like a 3rd rounder, Re-sign Orton to a 2 year deal, and draft a QB to groom for a year or two.

But, but, but...O LINE!

I'm kidding. You're absolutely right. Orton looked a lot more comfortable in the pocket yesterday than Cassel ever has. I have no beef with resigning Cassel and looking at what falls to us in a deep quarterback draft. If a quarterback doesn't fall to us, no big deal, draft the best available as there is likely to be some talent straggling around at the other positions as the quarterbacks go early.

OPLookn
12-19-2011, 10:46 AM
But, but, but...O LINE!

I'm kidding. You're absolutely right. Orton looked a lot more comfortable in the pocket yesterday than Cassel ever has. I have no beef with resigning Cassel and looking at what falls to us in a deep quarterback draft. If a quarterback doesn't fall to us, no big deal, draft the best available as there is likely to be some talent straggling around at the other positions as the quarterbacks go early.

I'm still up for either. Being inside the five yard line the first four times and only getting three yards of offense says to me that we need some bigger bodies to get yards when there aren't that many yards to get.

azchiefsfan
12-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Enough said, This game proves that we have been lacking talent at the QB position.

I said multiple times after Cassel got hurt that I realized our O-line is not as bad as it is made out to be, and that a better QB would prove that.

Not sure if anyone took a look at Orton's Jersey at the end of the game..... NO GRASS STAINS WHATSOEVER! It looked like he had just put it on!

Congrats to Orton, tosses a wrench into the idea of who the QB will be next year, I like Orton but I'm still thinking I would like to see us get a younger prospect to groom.

Maybe now we look to trade Cassel for like a 3rd rounder, Re-sign Orton to a 2 year deal, and draft a QB to groom for a year or two.

Against the 2nd worst defense in the NFL coming in to yesterdays game, I am not ready to anoint Orton yet. If he can show consistency on this very inconsistent offense in the next 2 games, then I am ready to give him a serious look. As is, I think it is good to have options at the QB position. But it cannot be overlooked that GB gives up 21.2 PPG when their offense is clicking, so in a game where the 2nd worst defense(and after yesterday probably the worst defense) held us to 19 points when their offense was off the field by almost 2:1 TOP, that really means our offense still underperformed. Let's see how the next 2 games go before making grand pronouncements.

TopekaRoy
12-19-2011, 01:06 PM
Against the 2nd worst defense in the NFL coming in to yesterdays game, I am not ready to anoint Orton yet. If he can show consistency on this very inconsistent offense in the next 2 games, then I am ready to give him a serious look. As is, I think it is good to have options at the QB position. But it cannot be overlooked that GB gives up 21.2 PPG when their offense is clicking, so in a game where the 2nd worst defense(and after yesterday probably the worst defense) held us to 19 points when their offense was off the field by almost 2:1 TOP, that really means our offense still underperformed. Let's see how the next 2 games go before making grand pronouncements.
You gotta give the offense some credit though. We scored more points than we did in 9 other games this year and we didn't throw a single interception against a defense that leads the NFL in interceptions, by an astounding 9 going into yesterdays game. Yes, The Packers give up a lot of yards but a lot of those yard come late in the game when the Packers have a comfortable lead and they have led at the end of every game this year before yesterday.

From the other side, The Chiefs scored more points against this same defense than 6 other teams, the Bears (17), Falcons (14), Rams (3), Vikings (7), Lions (15), and Raiders (16).

You have to compare our offense with Orton to our offense without Orton and, yesterday at least, it was much improved.

BigChiefTablet
12-19-2011, 01:29 PM
Orton is not an elite QB, and nobody should crown his *** just yet. But he is a big step up from Cassel. Cassel needs to be gone next year no matter who we end up with at QB.

pojote
12-19-2011, 01:32 PM
Maybe Orton is better, but not by far. He wasn't much accurate yesterday -maybe he needed more competition-, but he made better decisions.

N TX Dave
12-19-2011, 01:38 PM
Maybe Orton is better, but not by far. He wasn't much accurate yesterday -maybe he needed more competition-, but he made better decisions.

He has worked with the receivers what all of 2 weeks maybe. He needs to learn their tendencies and how they run routes he did much better in the 2nd half than the 1st. He has also not been in a game in several months and I am sure he was rusty. At this point I think he is better for this team than Cassel but we need to see how he does in the next two weeks before we jump on of off his bandwagon.

Clipper
12-19-2011, 01:38 PM
Let's not forget that Orton's finger was probably still a little sore from the dislocation. That may have played a part in some of his "inaccuracies". Cassel cannot see the field!! IF he makes it through his progressions and there are no "OPEN" recievers, He's lost.

azchiefsfan
12-19-2011, 01:38 PM
It cannot be overstated that he had TIME to make decisions. The best comparison would be the Cassel game against F*ckland. Cassel had more time and looked pretty good against a good secondary. But then again, that was a game the offense should have scored far more than 14 points and there were too many 3 and outs. I want to see how Cassel looks with Haley's fingers out of the soup. I truly believe that Haley was the reason Cassel looked so bad at times and why Cassel got sick of it and had the blowout on the sideline. Let's give a Haleyless Cassel a chance to see what he can do. His 11-5 season in NE and our 10-6 season were in large part thanks to Cassel. I am betting Cassel will look like an all-pro when given the chance.

jap1
12-19-2011, 01:45 PM
You have to compare our offense with Orton to our offense without Orton and, yesterday at least, it was much improved.

You could easily change that statement to this:

You have to compare our offense without Haley to our offense with Haley and, yesterday at least, it was much improved.

The problem is that was not the only thing that was different. I dont think we can take any solid conclusions about Orton v Cassel right now.

We had a new HC that the players seemed to rally around (did anyone notice D.Bowe playfully wiping the gatorade out of Romeo's eyes after they dumped the gatorade on him - no chance he would have done that with Haley).

We had an offensive game plan (when they keep blitzing, lets start running screen passes) that made sense and reacted to what GB was showing us.

I will admit I was a big fan of Haley, but our offensive game plan was way better than it has been since Weis announced he was leaving. If it continues that way, feel free to serve me up a big dish of hot steaming crow ... I prefer it cooked medium with a good sear on the outside :bananen_smilies046:

dbolan
12-19-2011, 02:04 PM
Exactly. I think this is the piece everyone is forgetting about. I'm pretty sure Orton is a free agent at the en of the season. If so, he is auditioning for his next contract. Are we gonna pay him top $? Doubtful. I hope we can find a way to keep him. If we would have been able to play him sooner we might of been talking playoffs.

No one else wanted him....That's why we have him. He wants a place that wants him and if he continues to have success, we will want him and he will want to be here. ;-)

PS- Plus..We have $CASH$

N TX Dave
12-19-2011, 02:08 PM
No one else wanted him....That's why we have him. He wants a place that wants him and if he continues to have success, we will want him and he will want to be here. ;-)

PS- Plus..We have $

Well there were other teams that wanted him, Bears also put a claim in that I know about but our team had a worse recored and got him.

jap1
12-19-2011, 02:09 PM
No one else wanted him....That's why we have him. He wants a place that wants him and if he continues to have success, we will want him and he will want to be here. ;-)

PS- Plus..We have $

Actually 2 other teams DID want him. We had the worst record, so we won the waiver wire request.

70 chiefsfan70
12-19-2011, 02:18 PM
Orton is not an elite QB, and nobody should crown his *** just yet. But he is a big step up from Cassel. Cassel needs to be gone next year no matter who we end up with at QB.

How about we keep him for third string so we can let Palko go.

TopekaRoy
12-19-2011, 02:47 PM
You could easily change that statement to this:

You have to compare our offense without Haley to our offense with Haley and, yesterday at least, it was much improved.

The problem is that was not the only thing that was different. I dont think we can take any solid conclusions about Orton v Cassel right now.

We had a new HC that the players seemed to rally around (did anyone notice D.Bowe playfully wiping the gatorade out of Romeo's eyes after they dumped the gatorade on him - no chance he would have done that with Haley).

We had an offensive game plan (when they keep blitzing, lets start running screen passes) that made sense and reacted to what GB was showing us.

I will admit I was a big fan of Haley, but our offensive game plan was way better than it has been since Weis announced he was leaving.
This is all true and I'm sure The coaching change and the game plan helped contribute to his success. But we can't go back and replay the game with Cassel at QB to get a side-by-side comparison.

When one player comes in and replaces another you can look at all of the things around that position that are different and use those circumstances to discredit the new players improved play.

But when Orton plays better than Cassel, the most proximate cause, that is the change that was closest to the QB position is the QB himself. We can speculate all we want on how Cassel would have done if he had played, but he didn't. Orton did and as such he deserves much of the credit for the improved play.

Hayvern
12-19-2011, 03:43 PM
look Orton and the whole team played great today! however as i have posted before this was a perfect trap game scenario for the pack. lets not get carried away about anything yet, there is a good chance if we had to replay the pack next week they win by 40pts. they had no info on this game to prepare a gameplan for and we had plenty. wait till the end of the season , after we play the broncs and raders again to see if we continue to look like a new team or if we revert to the haley CHIEFS! i for one expect us to look better and win these games but not to be dominant against either one. we will eek out 2 wins and that is just fine w/me and finish 8-8 which is a whole lot better than it looked just a few weeks ago.

The nut, is not such a nut after all.

okikcfan
12-19-2011, 04:49 PM
Look, Orton played his first game Sunday as a Chief, He did well for his first game. In fact he put up better numbers than Cassel does on the average. This team played their heart out and beat the undefeated (For 20 games) world Champs, Lets just savor that moment. Why did they play so well, because they BELIEVE! They believe in Romeo Crennel and they Believe in Kyle Orton. I was always one of the people that blamed injuries on our past performance. I ate the biggest plate of freaking Crow last Sunday night and I freaking liked it, This team lost faith with Cassel and Haley and his Palkonater. Canning Haley was the best thing that could have happen. If the Chiefs and Orton do well these next two games then Crennel needs to remain as well as Orton. So no more crap about their second to worst defense and all the other nip picking, WE BEAT THE PACKERS! ENJOY IT!