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View Full Version : To all the orton bandwagoners and thats exactly what u are.



nigeriannightmare
12-23-2011, 10:49 PM
First and foremost we, i think, are all chiefs fans. Some of us express it differently than others. With that said all of this cassel is terrible, pioli is terrible, haley haf to go. Those that say it are whats wrong with sports today. After the disaster that was herm edwards we were 2 and 14. Haley and pioli came into a bad situation and within 2 yrs we are diclvision champs. Some will say its because of a weak schedul outside of san diego the rest of the afc west benefitted from that same weak schedule so that is a weak argument we went from 4 and 12 to 10 and 6. Yes we got blown out at home by the ravens i know i was there.

Then comes the lockout haley approached it differently than other coaches and our first two games are what u saw. We were a team decimated by injuries. Our best weapon, look at indy, was lost for the season. If green bay lost aaron rodgers which is the same as us losing jamal they sure as hell wouldnt be 13-0. Cassels fav red zonek target moeaki out for the yr, oh and our coach ran out an offensive coordinator that made cassel a probowler and thats exactly what weiss did. Him returning to the kc area is proof that haley was at fault. And now cassel is crap, pioli doesnt know crap, haley was crap.

That view of this team is crap. We are a few key players away from being legitimate contenders. If orton stinks it up u said bring in the next guy. That win now mentality is not what builds a dynasty and thats what i want. The chiefs arent gonna listen to a word we say here, we are fans no more less. These guys go out and play their hearts out, and after cassels first yr when he was basically running for his life to his pro bowl year last year he and orton need to battle it out. The organization will make the right decision.

Merry Christmas Chiefs fans heres to an awesome 2012!

2010chiefs
12-23-2011, 11:20 PM
I'm on anyones BANDWAGON that is on the Chiefs roster and makes the Chiefs better! What's wrong with that?

chief31
12-23-2011, 11:52 PM
I'm on anyones BANDWAGON that is on the Chiefs roster and makes the Chiefs better! What's wrong with that?

Were you on Matt Cassel's band-wagon when he won four in a row? When he went 10-6, and got us into the playoffs, and himself into a Pro-Bowl?

The case here is that the massive exaggeration of love for Orton is primarily just a cover for Cassel-hating.

And winning 10 games to win the division is a much bigger accomplishment than winning one regular season game, no matter who that game is against.

Had Orton won all three games, prior to all of this, then the reaction would be a bit more level-headed.

But there were very people willing to stand up for Kyle Orton prior to this game.

Hayvern
12-24-2011, 12:04 AM
Well let's look at it this way,

A big number of us were not happy when Haley came here from Arizona, on top of that, many of us reiterated that unhappiness when Haley fired Gailey.

We tolerated him when the Chiefs did capitalize on a weak schedule, and yes that is EXACTLY what it was. When you get right down to it, our schedule was at least two teams weaker than that faced by the Chargers, that is how the schedule works, check it out.

OK, Pioli, I don't yet have a problem with Pioli, he is doing his job, could he do better, yes, but he is doing what he can at the moment, I don't see too many, other than those who have not thought past the last 14 weeks, who are calling for Pioli to be changed.

Now we get to Cassel, and this is where you are way off base. Cassel has been given ample time to take this team and lead this team. I have been the biggest Cassel fan since he came onboard this team. He was tough behind an offensive line that was incredibly bad and was capable to make it through a season where three previous quarterbacks were not.

Having said that, three years is about the limit given for just about any player to come up to speed, Cassel has been given that time and he has not shown the improvement one would expect.

So now when Orton comes in and what do we see? We see him able to perform by doing things that Cassel has failed to do adequately. Now, we see what a real quarterback can do, and frankly, we have not really seen this since Trent Green went down 7 years ago.

Looking at it this way, you have to admit that it was an exciting game last weekend and I am very excited to see what Orton can do against the Raiders. I am not saying Orton is the QB of the future and I am hardly on his bandwagon, but what he brought to the game against Green Bay has me excited again, something I have not had in the last 10 weeks.

chief31
12-24-2011, 12:08 AM
But look who he played during the 2010 season. And then after that I want you to look at games with .500 or better teams, his record and his stats/play. In this post I am not comparing cassel to ANYONE, just look at the record and the numbers for yourself

He was leading a team that had 26 games, over the previous two seasons.

You have to beat the teams that you are "supposed to" beat.

Everything was heading in the right direction.

And this year, started with a train wreck, but he even managed to get through that and win four of the next six games.

It's called making chicken salad, out of chicken s**t.

nigeriannightmare
12-24-2011, 12:09 AM
I did mention san diego having a tougher schedule they finished first and hence a scheduling reflecting that just like us having a tougher schedule. But orton played the same weak schedule we did last year.

nigeriannightmare
12-24-2011, 12:17 AM
WITH A DIFFERENT TEAM. lol my god

Okay 1 and 4 with the same team tim tebow is 7 and 2. Come on now u cant have it both ways u cant. My god. My eyes rolling.

chief31
12-24-2011, 12:18 AM
Now we get to Cassel, and this is where you are way off base. Cassel has been given ample time to take this team and lead this team. I have been the biggest Cassel fan since he came onboard this team. He was tough behind an offensive line that was incredibly bad and was capable to make it through a season where three previous quarterbacks were not.

Having said that, three years is about the limit given for just about any player to come up to speed, Cassel has been given that time and he has not shown the improvement one would expect.

He has.

27 TDs/7INTs in 2010.

Soft schedule, or not, winning any ten games in a season is awfully good, for a team that had been 6-26 over the previous two years.

And, as I have said, when you take an offense, designed around the running game, and the running game becomes mediocre, while you continue to run the same offensive design, the QB is not put into a position to be able to do what so many think Matt Cassel should be doing.

Almost all of the plays that Cassel was asked to execute have been designed to work against a defense that expects a great running team.

Todd Haley did not let go of that until Cassel was gone for the year.

And, even then, it takes a little while for a brand new offensive philosophy to get up and running.




So now when Orton comes in and what do we see? We see him able to perform by doing things that Cassel has failed to do adequately. Now, we see what a real quarterback can do, and frankly, we have not really seen this since Trent Green went down 7 years ago.

Looking at it this way, you have to admit that it was an exciting game last weekend and I am very excited to see what Orton can do against the Raiders. I am not saying Orton is the QB of the future and I am hardly on his bandwagon, but what he brought to the game against Green Bay has me excited again, something I have not had in the last 10 weeks.

I too am hoping for Orton to tear it up.

But, no matter how well he does, it does not change that Matt Cassel, overall, has been a very good QB for us, and he has been mis-judged by most Chiefs fans, because of the situation he has been put in.

figcrostic
12-24-2011, 12:21 AM
First and foremost we, i think, are all chiefs fans. Some of us express it differently than others. With that said all of this cassel is terrible, pioli is terrible, haley haf to go. Those that say it are whats wrong with sports today. After the disaster that was herm edwards we were 2 and 14. Haley and pioli came into a bad situation and within 2 yrs we are diclvision champs. Some will say its because of a weak schedul outside of san diego the rest of the afc west benefitted from that same weak schedule so that is a weak argument we went from 4 and 12 to 10 and 6. Yes we got blown out at home by the ravens i know i was there.

Then comes the lockout haley approached it differently than other coaches and our first two games are what u saw. We were a team decimated by injuries. Our best weapon, look at indy, was lost for the season. If green bay lost aaron rodgers which is the same as us losing jamal they sure as hell wouldnt be 13-0. Cassels fav red zonek target moeaki out for the yr, oh and our coach ran out an offensive coordinator that made cassel a probowler and thats exactly what weiss did. Him returning to the kc area is proof that haley was at fault. And now cassel is crap, pioli doesnt know crap, haley was crap.

That view of this team is crap. We are a few key players away from being legitimate contenders. If orton stinks it up u said bring in the next guy. That win now mentality is not what builds a dynasty and thats what i want. The chiefs arent gonna listen to a word we say here, we are fans no more less. These guys go out and play their hearts out, and after cassels first yr when he was basically running for his life to his pro bowl year last year he and orton need to battle it out. The organization will make the right decision.

Merry Christmas Chiefs fans heres to an awesome 2012!

Cassel is an average qb he's not terrible by any means and Haley was a dog with a short leash that was tired of getting kicked around. Haley came here and didn't get to pick his own qb, his own defensive coordinator, or even his offensive coordinator. Haley made mistakes but Pioli is definetly a control freak who likes to micro manage his HC's, Haley didn't like it so they butted heads

chief31
12-24-2011, 12:32 AM
All i know is that orton has the same number of wins against playoff teams that cassel does. 1.

I believe this statement.:lol:


(Just teasin')

chief31
12-24-2011, 12:38 AM
Fun chatting with you all.

But I have a big day tomorrow, so I am going to hit the hay.

Probably have little time the next couple of days, so I will catch up with you after the Holidays.


And Happy holidays to all!

AkChief49
12-24-2011, 12:40 AM
Fun chatting with you all.

But I have a big day tomorrow, so I am going to hit the hay.

Probably have little time the next couple of days, so I will catch up with you after the Holidays.


And Happy holidays to all!
And to you too Chief31!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!!

doobs_05
12-24-2011, 12:43 AM
Huh, another Cassel/Orton thread........i don't want cassel and i don't believe in orton

Chiefster
12-24-2011, 12:55 AM
Later "31" Merry Christmas! :D

ConnoisseurOfCannabis
12-24-2011, 01:01 AM
Im Not a Big fan of Cassel cause he just isn't clutch, When the games on the line or we need a big play to get back in it he looks downright out of place in the pocket, Overthrows, Missing Open Wide Outs etc. He's made good plays yes but his ability under pressure is not good.

matthewschiefs
12-24-2011, 01:07 AM
Heres my take on this team right now.

Pioli has done a good job. Could he do a better job yes. But I think that some on here are far to hard on him. Just look at some of the very young talent that's on this team. Mccluster quietly having a solid season. He does more the return punts. Justin Houston Giving us some MUCH needed pass rush. Allen Bailey also starting to show that he can be a help at times. For a rookie what more can you ask for. Then you have the injured guys like Berry and Moaki (or however it's spelled hey i work retail holiday time I am WORN out so I'm not going to bother to look LOL)

Cassel Has not had a lot of talent playing well at the same time. Orton only 1 game to early to tell. If Orton can go win the next 2 games then I look forward to having him and Cassel Battle it out for the starting job next season. If Cassel can't win it then I see him being gone that would just be to much money for a backup.

Coaching. I wouldn't say that Haley was "Crap" I was one that thought that he needed to move on. He just wasn't doing the job. Haley did a great job for this team a season ago. No matter who says what that divison title was EARNED. I find it hard to belive that the other teams in the NFC west were so horrible but on the days they played teams in our divison they were suddenly good for that day a year ago. That's pretty much what people who want to talk about the weak scedule are saying. But Haley clearly wasn't the best man for this job now and for this team. He just wasn't getting them to play every week. He wasn't crap he just wasn't the guy for the job.

All in all this team has A BRIGHT BRIGHT FUTURE I look forward to seeing them get even better.

matthewschiefs
12-24-2011, 01:08 AM
Fun chatting with you all.

But I have a big day tomorrow, so I am going to hit the hay.

Probably have little time the next couple of days, so I will catch up with you after the Holidays.


And Happy holidays to all!



What Chief31 says its Holiday time by rule I must say it's not but Happy holidays to you and to all.

Chiefster
12-24-2011, 01:10 AM
What Chief31 says its Holiday time by rule I must say it's not but Happy holidays to you and to all.

You too!

2010chiefs
12-24-2011, 01:11 AM
Thanks. Same to you.

2010chiefs
12-24-2011, 01:18 AM
Were you on Matt Cassel's band-wagon when he won four in a row? When he went 10-6, and got us into the playoffs, and himself into a Pro-Bowl?

The case here is that the massive exaggeration of love for Orton is primarily just a cover for Cassel-hating.

And winning 10 games to win the division is a much bigger accomplishment than winning one regular season game, no matter who that game is against.

Had Orton won all three games, prior to all of this, then the reaction would be a bit more level-headed.

But there were very people willing to stand up for Kyle Orton prior to this game.




Yes I was on Cassel's bandwagon last year! Did I think he was an elite QB though. NO!

Massive exaggeration because I hate Cassel. Yes. Cassel was a huge dissapointment this year and Orton brings hope and shows the true talent our team has. Hopefully he can keep it up.

Winning 10 games a bigger accomplishment then one game. Only if you want to live in the past. I'm thinking about the future of our team!

KCCF
12-24-2011, 03:03 AM
There's already a guy with the name ortons my man and he's his favorite player? What a joke lol. He must be 12.

azchiefsfan
12-24-2011, 11:07 AM
Haley goes, the offense comes alive. Cassel is a good QB who can be a very good QB. He is not, and never will be a Peyton Manning. He will not take a bad or even mediocre team to the Super Bowl, but he is a leader and will make good decisions that won't cost us a game and can throw accurate passes to open(even barely open) receivers. Is he going to dissect a defense and laser passes into triple coverage time after time? Nope, but that's why there is only one Peyton Manning. Brees, Brady and (used to be) Rivers were rarely throwing successful passes to buried receivers either, but they had good lines and better receivers. Look at each of them with bad lines and mediocre receivers. They are good, but not "elite". Now, is Cassel as good as Brees, Brady and Rivers? We know he performed almost as well as them last year-you want me to post the stats again? We were still not a "good" team, but the spark we had was enough for Cassel to border on great. So I hope you guys don't get to upset that I am not jumping on the "hate Cassel" bandwagon.

Chiefster
12-24-2011, 11:52 AM
I don't hate Cassel either; in fact I have been among his biggest supporters. Does that mean that I think that Orton shouldn't be given the opportunity to compete for the starting job? Answer: absolutely not.

chief31
12-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Yes I was on Cassel's bandwagon last year! Did I think he was an elite QB though. NO!

Massive exaggeration because I hate Cassel. Yes. Cassel was a huge dissapointment this year and Orton brings hope and shows the true talent our team has. Hopefully he can keep it up.

Winning 10 games a bigger accomplishment then one game. Only if you want to live in the past. I'm thinking about the future of our team!

I am gonna have to call "bulls**t" on that.

You have been against Matt Cassel all the way.


Our passing game is no threat and it showed this time because they stopped the run. I blame Cassel because he is in charge of pur passing game and it sucks.


Seems to me like many people on here are using Bowe's dropped pass as a way to bail out Matt Cassel. Cassel made poor decisions specially on 3rd downs. When he does have plenty of time to throw the ball he holds on to it or throws it away. I found myself yelling at the TV "Throw the damn ball". Doesn't give his receivers legitamate chances. The one time that he did in the end zone to Bowe, everyone on here uses it to defend Cassel for the whole game. Of course Bowe messed up, however their weren't many balls thrown in his direction to make a play. Why didn't we get the ball in Mccluster's hands. He's a playmaker and all he did was punt returns. Coaching lost this game and so did Matt Cassel. Officiating also helped the Colts big time. Sure Bowe could have won this game for us but he didn't lose the game for us. I believe the recievers weren't given enough chances. Cassel needs to get rid of that damn ball and trust his revceivers. Love the defense! GO CHIEFS!


Teams know our weakness is our passing game and that allows them to focus on our rushing game.


Everyone is talking about how having another No. 1 Wr will save our team. What good is it if the QB still can't throw to them. Matt Cassel held onto that ball over and over again and found myself screaming to throw the ball throughout the game. Let's hope another good WR will make Cassel a better QB because it's hard to believe that no one was open that many times.

I can find a couple of semi-positive remarks. But they seem to come with a lump in your throat.

Your hatred of Matt Cassel this season, started long before this season.

jap1
12-24-2011, 05:54 PM
Haley wasnt even calling the offensive plays.

Correction. Orton starts and the offense comes alive

If you honestly think he had no influence on the playcalling, and that the playcalling hasnt improved since his departure, then there really is no arguing with you. I think most people (experts and fans) recognized that all the delay of game penalties and early game timeouts were because Haley would change the play after Muir picked it.

Additionally, if you dont recognize the better play selection and adjustments that everyone else notices, then I'm sorry, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Ryfo18
12-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Haley wasnt even calling the offensive plays.

Correction. Orton starts and the offense comes alive

de·lu·sion·al  [dih-loo-zhuh-nl] (adjective) - maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness.

KCraised
12-24-2011, 07:21 PM
de·lu·sion·al  [dih-loo-zhuh-nl] (adjective) - maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness.

It's always hard to match the game of your career. Didnt matter how close he got to the GB game, there are always going to be critics;)

nigeriannightmare
12-24-2011, 07:44 PM
It's always hard to match the game of your career. Didnt matter how close he got to the GB game, there are always going to be critics;)

Zero touchdowns is the game of his career. Its getting funnier.

azchiefsfan
12-24-2011, 07:51 PM
3 quarterbacks and they all struggle. Could it be they all 3 are the symptom of a bad OL, rather than the disease? We need a good OL. No QB, not Manning or Brees or Brady, could look good behind this line. Last week we had a great game plan and GB defense was bad enough that we could muddle through. I'll jump on the draft a QB bandwagon and I'll get sick to my stomach as he gets beat to death every game. We need to draft OL and DL help and get our QB's and RB's healthy. Then we'll be a dangerous team. Changing the QB will be more of the same and a waste of a draft pick.

Ryfo18
12-24-2011, 07:56 PM
3 quarterbacks and they all struggle. Could it be they all 3 are the symptom of a bad OL, rather than the disease? We need a good OL. No QB, not Manning or Brees or Brady, could look good behind this line. Last week we had a great game plan and GB defense was bad enough that we could muddle through. I'll jump on the draft a QB bandwagon and I'll get sick to my stomach as he gets beat to death every game. We need to draft OL and DL help and get our QB's and RB's healthy. Then we'll be a dangerous team. Changing the QB will be more of the same and a waste of a draft pick.

100% False...you're talking about 3 mediocre QBs behind a mediocre O-line. Put any great QB behidn this O-line and they are a 10+ win team consistently. The O-line is not the best in the league, but it's also not the worst.

boiler01
12-24-2011, 09:28 PM
This is sloppy game by both teams. This happens. Whatever, the fact is Orton brought the team back late in 4th and gave Chiefs a chance to win it in regular time. Given the pressure I actually give him more credit than last game.

ctchiefsfan
12-24-2011, 09:36 PM
Orton played like what he is. A mediocre QB. No better than Cassel. Probably no worse.

Either one of them will shine if we improve our O-line

okikcfan
12-24-2011, 09:54 PM
If we lose next week, Cassel and Orton may be the least of our problems. With our luck Mickey D will show up and try to work a trade for TEBOW! Oh God help us all!