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View Full Version : Can we trade up to get first pick?



pojote
12-26-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm thinking about the Rams getting the first pick. If we can trade Bowe, Carr or Cassel for a first round pick and trade both first round picks for the first pick.

Does it sound possible?

matthewschiefs
12-26-2011, 03:53 PM
I think we would have to give up more than any of the 3 that were listed to get a first rounder. Bowe could be. But I don't see a 1st rounder for him. I think we would have to give up to much to get anther 1st round pick.

wolfpack
12-26-2011, 04:08 PM
i heard the other day it was probably going to take 3 1st rounders to move up to #1. Since there is only two 1st round QB,s now, its going to cost alot to move up.
Tomany holes to fill.

Coach
12-26-2011, 04:32 PM
Nobody is going to pay 1st round picks for any player unproven player. I'll bet big money on that. In fact Im not sure anyone has ever paid 3 1st Rd picks for any player.

Regarding trades, Bowe may be a 1st rd'er. Cassel is no more than a 2nd. And Carr is no better than a 3rd.

To get Andrew Luck, I'd trade first rd'ers this year, give up a 2nd this year, and a 1st next year maybe.

That said, I'd prefer to keep those picks and find a way to keep Orton. He seems to like the players and culture here. And we could use some depth at qb. It cost us a trip to the playoffs this year. If not for the Palko experiment, we'd be in the playoffs and probably still have our coach.

Sackmaster58
12-26-2011, 04:48 PM
We're not getting Luck, it will take at minimum 2 firsts, anymore firsts for him is pushing your "LUCK" for a chance that hes the best in 10 years. I think we should seriously consider RG3

Bike
12-26-2011, 06:55 PM
We need a safety, linebacker, nose tackle, O-line and possibly a runningback. We just have too many needs to be trading away picks. At least this year.

nigeriannightmare
12-26-2011, 07:17 PM
We're not getting Luck, it will take at minimum 2 firsts, anymore firsts for him is pushing your "LUCK" for a chance that hes the best in 10 years. I think we should seriously consider RG3

I love rgiii, he plays like aaron rodgers.

okikcfan
12-26-2011, 08:15 PM
Nobody is going to pay 1st round picks for any player unproven player. I'll bet big money on that. In fact Im not sure anyone has ever paid 3 1st Rd picks for any player.

Regarding trades, Bowe may be a 1st rd'er. Cassel is no more than a 2nd. And Carr is no better than a 3rd.

To get Andrew Luck, I'd trade first rd'ers this year, give up a 2nd this year, and a 1st next year maybe.

That said, I'd prefer to keep those picks and find a way to keep Orton. He seems to like the players and culture here. And we could use some depth at qb. It cost us a trip to the playoffs this year. If not for the Palko experiment, we'd be in the playoffs and probably still have our coach.

I beg to differ there Coach, The Raiders, wait, oh they don't have any picks for the next few years! :lol:

matthewschiefs
12-26-2011, 09:33 PM
We need a safety, linebacker, nose tackle, O-line and possibly a runningback. We just have too many needs to be trading away picks. At least this year.

I am not sure that we need a safety We will get Barry back and Kendrick Lewis has played pretty well this year. I don't think safety is going to be a big need. Well maybe for some depth if theres a pick late. O LINE is a clear biggest need IMO.

okikcfan
12-27-2011, 09:20 AM
History shows that Pioli leans heavily towards drafting defense with the first pick. It also shows Pioli will likely not attempt to move up in the draft to get a QB. Pioli would more likely move back in the draft to gain more picks if the person he wants will still be there. Now with Carr and Bowe not being signed yet that could leave one to believe Pioli has plans for some sort of trade. The question is, for who or for what? Scott Pioli is a hard man to figure out. Pioli also comes from a background that likes to wheel and deal on draft day but you cannot trade players to move up or down in the draft, but you can use draft picks. So where does that leave us? My question is if we trade Bowe or Carr for picks before the draft, are we able to move up then? Will a trade for Orton or Cassel be in the mix?

TopekaRoy
12-27-2011, 10:55 AM
History shows that Pioli leans heavily towards drafting defense with the first pick. It also shows Pioli will likely not attempt to move up in the draft to get a QB. Pioli would more likely move back in the draft to gain more picks if the person he wants will still be there. Now with Carr and Bowe not being signed yet that could leave one to believe Pioli has plans for some sort of trade. The question is, for who or for what? Scott Pioli is a hard man to figure out. Pioli also comes from a background that likes to wheel and deal on draft day but you cannot trade players to move up or down in the draft, but you can use draft picks. So where does that leave us? My question is if we trade Bowe or Carr for picks before the draft, are we able to move up then? Will a trade for Orton or Cassel be in the mix?
Pioli has drafted defense first in the past but he may break with tradition this year because our defense is pretty solid. If he does draft defense in the first round, it will probably be because an outstanding nose tackle or linebacker is the best player available (for position of need) and he figures good offensive linemen will still be available in later rounds.

As far as Bowe and Carr go, they can't be used in a trade if they are unsigned free agents, so I'm not clear on your thinking there. My guess is he will try to sign both of them before the free agency period starts, but he might let them test the waters to see what their market value is

As far as Orton and Cassel go, I think it is likely that he will let one or the other go. If we don't resign Orton, we get a compensatory draft pick and if we do sign him then we can trade Cassel for a pick or two, so either way = more picks!

I would rather keep both QBs at least through training camp though. We have plenty of cap space to make it work and the competition could only make both of them play better. I can't see either of them riding the bench long term, though, but for enough money it is possible that Orton would be willing to stay as back-up if he believes he would eventually beat out Cassel for the starting role. I'm not sure if there will be a big demand for him as a starter on another team. Only 3 teams put in a waiver claim for him. The Chiefs and Bears both lost their starting QBs and were still in the playoff hunt at the time, so they were deperate, and Dallas only put in a claim for him to keep him out of Chicago. If the demand for him is low in free agency that might make it more feasible (and economical) to keep him in KC.

Bike
12-28-2011, 12:49 AM
I am not sure that we need a safety We will get Barry back and Kendrick Lewis has played pretty well this year. I don't think safety is going to be a big need. Well maybe for some depth if theres a pick late. O LINE is a clear biggest need IMO.
O-line is our biggest need. But we need some better depth at safety other than Langford and McGraw.

Jrudi
12-28-2011, 12:37 PM
Bowe and Carr can't be traded, they are FA's this off season.

I think the we slap the Franchise Tag on Bowe, and work to re-sign Carr asap (I thought he was a restricted FA this year, but I'm thinking that was last off season and all he did was sign the 1 year tender??) if he is restricted we will receive compensation (draft pick) if he signs elsewhere.

As for Cassel and Orton, I know people are saying they want to see them battle it out in training camp but I really think they need to make a decision on them as soon as they can. I think the earlier we could move one, the better it will be for us to hopefully receive a draft pick in return.

I wanna say the new CBA restricts teams from being able to just trade players for draft picks, so the likelihood of us getting a pick for Cassel will probably not happen if that is the case (I don't know if you can package a player and a pick for another player and a pick.....so that may be a possibility) but as for Orton we do receive compensation if he signs anywhere else.

I would like to see us grab another pick or two, but the most likely scenario looks like we can only get them if Orton signs elsewhere.

okikcfan
12-28-2011, 12:53 PM
See I'm not certain how that works. If you trade at the end of the season, say Cassel, can you not receive draft picks or is it you can not trade players for draft picks during the draft. I really haven't kept up with it this year. Now if Orton leaves, we get an extra pick right?

70 chiefsfan70
12-28-2011, 01:39 PM
Bowe and Carr can't be traded, they are FA's this off season.

I think the we slap the Franchise Tag on Bowe, and work to re-sign Carr asap (I thought he was a restricted FA this year, but I'm thinking that was last off season and all he did was sign the 1 year tender??) if he is restricted we will receive compensation (draft pick) if he signs elsewhere.

As for Cassel and Orton, I know people are saying they want to see them battle it out in training camp but I really think they need to make a decision on them as soon as they can. I think the earlier we could move one, the better it will be for us to hopefully receive a draft pick in return.

I wanna say the new CBA restricts teams from being able to just trade players for draft picks, so the likelihood of us getting a pick for Cassel will probably not happen if that is the case (I don't know if you can package a player and a pick for another player and a pick.....so that may be a possibility) but as for Orton we do receive compensation if he signs anywhere else.

I would like to see us grab another pick or two, but the most likely scenario looks like we can only get them if Orton signs elsewhere.


He is indeed a restricted FA.
Cornerback Brandon Carr signs with Kansas City Chiefs - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6832940/cornerback-brandon-carr-signs-kansas-city-chiefs)

Jrudi
12-28-2011, 02:32 PM
See I'm not certain how that works. If you trade at the end of the season, say Cassel, can you not receive draft picks or is it you can not trade players for draft picks during the draft. I really haven't kept up with it this year. Now if Orton leaves, we get an extra pick right?

See I'm not sure either....

I thought it was just straight up picks for players you can't do. not sure though....


He is indeed a restricted FA.
Cornerback Brandon Carr signs with Kansas City Chiefs - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6832940/cornerback-brandon-carr-signs-kansas-city-chiefs)

See that is talking about this past off season. He was a restricted FA this past off season. We placed a 1st round tender on him (meaning we would have recieved a 1st rounder from any team that signed him) I know he signed his tender for this year, but I don't think it made him a restricted FA this year too.

As far as I know, he is just a FA.

okikcfan
12-28-2011, 02:52 PM
I'm sure Orton would want to be a starter and am not sure he would be willing to take that chance at having to fight for the starting spot in KC. After March his contract is up and I'm sure if he plays well against the Tebow's he may get a few phone call's. Tho I feel Orton get's the ball down the field better than Cassel, I don't feel Pioli will make him an offer, at least until a perm HC is in place.

Jrudi
12-28-2011, 02:53 PM
Tried looking around and saw this posted on SB Nation on Feb 1 2011:

"2. With no CBA in place, players would not be able to be traded. Draft picks could still be traded, but only for other draft picks; picks could not be swapped for players, and players could not be swapped for other players either. With no free agency and no trades, this means that the ONLY method of player acquisition for the foreseeable future would be the 2011 NFL Draft"


with that, it sounds like ONLY last year was affected as far as including players for picks in trades because there was no signed CBA while the draft took place.

Sounds to me like it should go back to normal...and After I thought about it... Carson Palmer just got traded mid season for 2 first rounders..duh Can't believe I didn't think about that.

So yes we should be able to trade players for picks. (Just couldn't do it last year)

I think I did see that the new CBA eliminates the Eli Manning situation where teams can't trade away players that have already been selected. The only option for a player that does not want to play for the team that has selected them is to sit out a year, and re-enter the next years draft (similar to the talk about Micheal Crabtree when they couldn't agree on a deal)

okikcfan
12-28-2011, 03:06 PM
Tried looking around and saw this posted on SB Nation on Feb 1 2011:

"2. With no CBA in place, players would not be able to be traded. Draft picks could still be traded, but only for other draft picks; picks could not be swapped for players, and players could not be swapped for other players either. With no free agency and no trades, this means that the ONLY method of player acquisition for the foreseeable future would be the 2011 NFL Draft"


with that, it sounds like ONLY last year was affected as far as including players for picks in trades because there was no signed CBA while the draft took place.

Sounds to me like it should go back to normal...and After I thought about it... Carson Palmer just got traded mid season for 2 first rounders..duh Can't believe WE didn't think about that.

So yes we should be able to trade players for picks. (Just couldn't do it last year)

I think I did see that the new CBA eliminates the Eli Manning situation where teams can't trade away players that have already been selected. The only option for a player that does not want to play for the team that has selected them is to sit out a year, and re-enter the next years draft (similar to the talk about Micheal Crabtree when they couldn't agree on a deal)

LOL I guess we all missed that one!:lol:

TopekaRoy
12-28-2011, 03:51 PM
See I'm not certain how that works. If you trade at the end of the season, say Cassel, can you not receive draft picks or is it you can not trade players for draft picks during the draft. I really haven't kept up with it this year. Now if Orton leaves, we get an extra pick right?
I had not heard of this, so I tried to look it up and found no restrictions on trading players for draft picks in the CBA. It's 300 pages long so maybe I missed it, but if you want to skim through it the complete text can be found here: http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable.pdf

I think there might be some confusion because this year's draft occurred during the lockout. so you couldn't draft a player and then trade him for another player (like the Rivers/Manning deal), you couldn't trade players to get more draft picks. In fact you couldn't trade players at all.

Now that the New CBA is in effect I would assume you could trade a player for anything including other players, draft picks, cash, Denny's gift certificates and a bag of footballs.

If anyone has information to the contrary, please post a link.

70 chiefsfan70
12-28-2011, 03:59 PM
See I'm not sure either....

I thought it was just straight up picks for players you can't do. not sure though....



See that is talking about this past off season. He was a restricted FA this past off season. We placed a 1st round tender on him (meaning we would have recieved a 1st rounder from any team that signed him) I know he signed his tender for this year, but I don't think it made him a restricted FA this year too.

As far as I know, he is just a FA.


Thanks for pointing that out.

I've been reading it wrong and was wondering why everyone else didn't see it that way...........my bad.

I guess I was just wanting it to be that way.

toyotapower
12-29-2011, 04:00 PM
we trade the rams our first rounder for sam bradford. They get luck and unload a huge contract. We can afford him.

pojote
12-29-2011, 04:07 PM
we trade the rams our first rounder for sam bradford. They get luck and unload a huge contract. We can afford him.

I like that.
:yahoo:

Jrudi
12-29-2011, 04:37 PM
we trade the rams our first rounder for sam bradford. They get luck and unload a huge contract. We can afford him.

Not a bad Idea, but I would still like to have a 1st round pick this year. That would be crazy to see the rams have two fairly high 1st round picks.

whackojacko58
12-29-2011, 05:12 PM
various curious idea about trading for bradford, im ok with giving a first for him, but we HAVE to look hard at free agents. We need depth. besides kendrick lewis no other safety has been effective since we lost berry. O line i wanna see alot of competition brought in