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figcrostic
01-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Career stats
Cassel 59% 11,699 yards 76td's 45int 169.6 ypg 82.5 rate passes 20+ yards 139 40+ yards 23
Orton 58.3% 14,532 yards 80td's 50int 204.7pg 79.4 rate passes 20+ yards 174 40+ yards 31

Last 3 games
Cassel 52.4 607 yards 2td's 2int 202 ypg rate 69.4 sks 12
Orton 60.8% 779 yards 1td 2int 260 ypg 81.1 rate sks 1

Against the same opponents as a Chief 2011/12 season
(Denver and Raiders)
Cassel 48.2% 254 yards 1td 2int 52.4 rate 2sks 1 win
Orton 55% 480 yards 1td 2int 71 rate 1sks 1 win

This is a lot of work so if anyone wants to help out I'm all for it, I'm going to next look at how they both performed against top 5 pass defenses but I have some things to do today, so It might take awhile.

Chiefster
01-02-2012, 01:39 PM
They're pretty even, had Cassel not gotten hurt he may have been on pace with Orton with the INT's, however, by the same token Orton did not play all season either.

chief31
01-02-2012, 01:58 PM
The biggest difference between the two situation, as Chiefs in 2011, is the timing of their experiences.

Cassel had his time coming of the shortened preseason, with a first time OC, and an O-line shake-up. Then there was the the loss of Jamaal Charles, whom the offense was designed around.

Not that the offense ever really got it together while he was there, but it is the fact that he was dealing with it all when it was fresh.

Orton, while having to come into the situation late in the year in not an advantage in itself, did benefit by playing with an offense that had been dealing with those issues for most of the year, worked out some of the kinks, and the O-line had most of a season of working together.

I think Kyle performed better.

I am just unsure of how much of that was Kyle, and how much was due to an O-line with more time together, a leash being removed from the play-calling, and a situation where Tyler Palko made things look even worse.

I think both guys have a very high ceiling. And I will be happy to see either at QB in 2012, but even happier if we force them both into a direct competition for it.

Bike
01-02-2012, 02:13 PM
Looks like we got a couple "average" qb's to fight it out in training camp next year. Orton will probably win the position - if he stays.

fairladyZ
01-02-2012, 03:12 PM
It was pretty obvious yesterday. 1st quarter we came out with playcalling that kept the broncos on their heels and orton was able to just march down the field... After that the play calling went back to being predictable and we weren't able to do jack after that.
It went to the same playcalling that cassel was dealt with all year. We have GOT to get away from running vanilla predictable offenses and cassel will shine, just like he did against the niners, seahawks, titans last year.

After ortons comments i don't think he will come back i think he will request a trade. Which is fine with me i think cassel is a better QB for this team and atleast we can now get something for orton.

ortons postgame comments:
"I don't know," Orton said when asked whether he thought he would return next season. "I'm going to step away. I know they've got a great quarterback in Matt Cassel. Matt's a good friend, he's a great teammate, and he's a great quarterback. As I look at it, it's his team. We'll see what happens."

Chiefster
01-02-2012, 03:31 PM
The biggest difference between the two situation, as Chiefs in 2011, is the timing of their experiences.

Cassel had his time coming of the shortened preseason, with a first time OC, and an O-line shake-up. Then there was the the loss of Jamaal Charles, whom the offense was designed around.

Not that the offense ever really got it together while he was there, but it is the fact that he was dealing with it all when it was fresh.

Orton, while having to come into the situation late in the year in not an advantage in itself, did benefit by playing with an offense that had been dealing with those issues for most of the year, worked out some of the kinks, and the O-line had most of a season of working together.

I think Kyle performed better.

I am just unsure of how much of that was Kyle, and how much was due to an O-line with more time together, a leash being removed from the play-calling, and a situation where Tyler Palko made things look even worse.

I think both guys have a very high ceiling. And I will be happy to see either at QB in 2012, but even happier if we force them both into a direct competition for it.

...Absolutely THIS!

N TX Dave
01-02-2012, 03:32 PM
After ortons comments i don't think he will come back i think he will request a trade. Which is fine with me i think cassel is a better QB for this team and atleast we can now get something for orton."

Orton does not have to ask for a trade he is a free agent now.

fairladyZ
01-02-2012, 03:51 PM
i thought he was a restricted free agent? oh well either way i don't think he will be here.. i think he will want to go somewhere where he can almost certainly get the starting postion. Like Miami, seattle, jacksonville, buffalo. I think he knows he'll get beat out by cassel if it's a competition.

AkChief49
01-02-2012, 06:29 PM
The biggest difference between the two situation, as Chiefs in 2011, is the timing of their experiences.

Cassel had his time coming of the shortened preseason, with a first time OC, and an O-line shake-up. Then there was the the loss of Jamaal Charles, whom the offense was designed around.

Not that the offense ever really got it together while he was there, but it is the fact that he was dealing with it all when it was fresh.

Orton, while having to come into the situation late in the year in not an advantage in itself, did benefit by playing with an offense that had been dealing with those issues for most of the year, worked out some of the kinks, and the O-line had most of a season of working together.

I think Kyle performed better.

I am just unsure of how much of that was Kyle, and how much was due to an O-line with more time together, a leash being removed from the play-calling, and a situation where Tyler Palko made things look even worse.

I think both guys have a very high ceiling. And I will be happy to see either at QB in 2012, but even happier if we force them both into a direct competition for it.

Orton may not want to deal with a competition. He's been through two QB controversies already. He wants to start.
I still say that Orton is the better play action QB. They are fairly equal in all stats.
I'm all for the competition, just do not think Orton is.

okikcfan
01-02-2012, 06:44 PM
It was pretty obvious yesterday. 1st quarter we came out with playcalling that kept the broncos on their heels and orton was able to just march down the field... After that the play calling went back to being predictable and we weren't able to do jack after that.
It went to the same playcalling that cassel was dealt with all year. We have GOT to get away from running vanilla predictable offenses and cassel will shine, just like he did against the niners, seahawks, titans last year.

After ortons comments i don't think he will come back i think he will request a trade. Which is fine with me i think cassel is a better QB for this team and atleast we can now get something for orton.

ortons postgame comments:
"I don't know," Orton said when asked whether he thought he would return next season. "I'm going to step away. I know they've got a great quarterback in Matt Cassel. Matt's a good friend, he's a great teammate, and he's a great quarterback. As I look at it, it's his team. We'll see what happens."

Orton's contract is up in March. I think if Orton is offered a job as a starter elsewhere anytime soon he may take it. It may be hard to pass up. He would not be offered a starting spot here. He would have to battle it out with Cassel. As far as a trade, we can't trade him.

figcrostic
01-02-2012, 07:43 PM
Career stats
Cassel 59% 11,699 yards 76td's 45int 169.6 ypg 82.5 rate passes 20+ yards 139 40+ yards 23
Orton 58.3% 14,532 yards 80td's 50int 204.7pg 79.4 rate passes 20+ yards 174 40+ yards 31

Last 3 games
Cassel 52.4 607 yards 2td's 2int 202 ypg rate 69.4 sks 12
Orton 60.8% 779 yards 1td 2int 260 ypg 81.1 rate sks 1

Against the same opponents as a Chief 2011/12 season
(Denver and Raiders)
Cassel 48.2% 254 yards 1td 2int 52.4 rate 2sks 1 win
Orton 55% 480 yards 1td 2int 71 rate 1sks 1 win

This is a lot of work so if anyone wants to help out I'm all for it, I'm going to next look at how they both performed against top 5 pass defenses but I have some things to do today, so It might take awhile.

How they did against the same passing defenses over 2 years.


Kyle Orton

2010 teams
Chargers 63.2% 217 yards 1 TD's 1 Int
Raiders 41.4% 198 yards 2 TD's 1 Int

Total 415 yards 3 TD's 2 Int

Average Per game 52.3% 207.5 yards 1.5 TD's 1 Int

2009
Raiders 56.5% 157 Yards 1 TD's 0 INT
Chargers 69.0% 229 Yards 2TD's 0 INT
Raiders 55.9% 278 Yards 1 TD's 0 INT
Chargers 51.7% 171 Yards 0 TD's 1 INT

Total 835 yards 4 TD's 1 Int

Average Per game 58.3% 209 yards 1TD's .25 Int

Matt Cassel


2010
Chargers 45.5% 68yards 1 TD's 0 Int
Raiders 57.1% 216 yards 2 TD's 1 Int

Total 284 yards 3 TD's 1 Int

Average Per game 51.3% 142yards 1.5 TD's .5 Int

2009
Raiders 61.5% 241Yards 1 TD's 2 INT
Chargers 40.0% 97 Yards 1 TD's 3 INT
Raiders 55.9% 216 Yards 0 TD's 1 INT
Chargers 61.3% 178 Yards 1 TD's 1 INT

Total 732 yards 3 TD's 7 Int

Average Per game 54.7% 183 yards .75 TD's 1.75 Int

Total all 6 games same opponents

Orton 1250 Yards 7 TD's 3 Int
Cassel 1016 Yards 6 TD's 8 Int


Average of 6 games same opponents

Orton 55.3% 208.25 Yards 1.25 TD's .625 Int
Cassel 53% 162.5 Yards 1.13 TD's 1.13 Int

nigeriannightmare
01-02-2012, 07:58 PM
Orton's contract is up in March. I think if Orton is offered a job as a starter elsewhere anytime soon he may take it. It may be hard to pass up. He would not be offered a starting spot here. He would have to battle it out with Cassel. As far as a trade, we can't trade him.

But we will be compensated a draft pick if he signs elsewhere My money is they franchise him.

okikcfan
01-02-2012, 08:52 PM
How many franchise tags can you have per season? I would much rather use it on Bowe. The thing that scares me about Orton is the number of interceptions he has had in the past. That was Denver's #1 complaint. The stats between Orton and Cassel are not that much different, but why spend money on two so so QB's?

chief31
01-02-2012, 09:17 PM
How many franchise tags can you have per season? I would much rather use it on Bowe. The thing that scares me about Orton is the number of interceptions he has had in the past. That was Denver's #1 complaint. The stats between Orton and Cassel are not that much different, but why spend money on two so so QB's?

I have to disagree with the Orton/INTs sentiment.

He has actually been pretty good for his entire career in that exactly that field.

The average for NFL teams, in 2011, was almost precisely one INT per game.

Orton was right on that line this season, with 9 INTs in nine starts.

Prior to this season, he had been better than that every single year of his career.

2010 - 13 Starts; 9 INTs.
2009 - 15 Starts; 12 INTs
2008 - 15 Starts; 12 INTs
2007 - 3 Starts; 2 INTs
2005 - 15 Starts; 12 INTs.

I think the big knock on him is that he was not drafted as a superstar.

The only other reasonable critique I have heard is that he has a difficult time getting his team into the endzone.

But I don't think that INTs is a legitimate complaint against Kyle Orton.

TopekaRoy
01-03-2012, 12:22 AM
Orton may not want to deal with a competition. He's been through two QB controversies already. He wants to start.
I still say that Orton is the better play action QB. They are fairly equal in all stats.
I'm all for the competition, just do not think Orton is.

This bugs the heck out of me. Not the comment, which I agree with, but the perception that Orton doesn't want to compete. If that really is his attitude then I say, "Good riddance." I don't want a QB who thinks he should just be handed the starting job and isn't willing to show he deserves it. I want a guy that is willing to sign with Green Bay or New England and says, "Yeah. That guy's good, but I can do better!"

On the other hand, I do understand when he says, "this is Cassel's team." While I do think that is, to a large extent, just hem showing respect as the newcomer, and being humble and politically correct, I can see that he may recognize that it will be difficult for the Chiefs to keep them both.

I can completely understand him wanting to be the starter and possibly taking a job where that is more likely. The thing is, he might not be in a position to make that happen.

The reality of the situation is that Orton lost his starting job to Grossman, was traded for Cutler and then lost it again to Tebow. Now if the Chiefs keep Cassel over him, that will be the 4th QB he has lost out to. He may have to earn the starting job regardless of where he signs. I think teams that desperately need a QB are more likely to go after a good rookie in the draft than overpay Orton who has shown ability, but hasn't shown that he can keep the starting job.

I think some here are over valuing Orton because he came in here and beat the packers right away. Given the way he has played the last 3 games, I think very highly of him as well, but I'm not sure other teams will feel the same way.

I also think that if Orton has to compete for the starting spot, his best chance of winning that competition is right here in KC. I think he has the talent to beat out Cassel, and the self confidence to believe he can do it.

If the Chiefs don't resign Kyle, I will be very disappointed, but I will understand and Matt will have my full support. But I really want to see Kyle iin a Cheifs uniform next summer.

2010chiefs
01-03-2012, 01:24 AM
Losing Kyle Orton would be a major setback for this team. He is the better QB and he has proven it in the last 3 games to me. If we lose Kyle Orton and see Matt Cassel get handed the starting position next year, i'll be sick. Specially having to hear all the excuses the Cassel supporters will think of next. If Orton leaves then I would hope we add another QB to compete with Cassel. Make him earn it.

nigeriannightmare
01-03-2012, 01:46 AM
Losing Kyle Orton would be a major setback for this team. He is the better QB and he has proven it in the last 3 games to me. If we lose Kyle Orton and see Matt Cassel get handed the starting position next year, i'll be sick. Specially having to hear all the excuses the Cassel supporters will think of next. If Orton leaves then I would hope we add another QB to compete with Cassel. Make him earn it.


So a qb the lost his job to tim tebow and rex grossman is the guy u want. Are u scared that cassel will beat him out for the starting pisition.

ctchiefsfan
01-03-2012, 01:59 AM
Add my name to the list of folks who hope he is still here next year. I'd like to see a real competition between him and Cassel. That said, I don't think it is going to happen.

Orton looked good (for the most part) between the 20s. What I liked best about him is that he looked confident.

Once he gets to (or close to) the opponents 20 I swear it is like Superman coming in contact with Kryptonite.

When all is said and done, the Orton-led Chiefs scored an average of 13 ppg. He cheered us up with that win against GB but when it comes right down to it, he was nothing to be too excited about.

figcrostic
01-03-2012, 11:46 AM
So a qb the lost his job to tim tebow and rex grossman is the guy u want. Are u scared that cassel will beat him out for the starting pisition.

Rich Gannon lost his job to: Sean Salisbury, Mark Rypien, Steve Bono, and Elvis Grbac.

Trent Green lost his job to Kurt Warner

Matt Cassel lost his job to Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, and Tom Brady and almost became a baseball player.

I could keep going but hopefully you get the point. Regardless of whether you like Cassel or Orton better they both have proven they can be successful. If I was Cassel or Orton I would not want to compete I have already proven myself either make me the starter or I'm going somewhere where I can be the starter. That's like telling a Journeyman carpenter he has compete with another guy and if he loses he will become an apprentice again, I don't think so.

nigeriannightmare
01-03-2012, 12:46 PM
Rich Gannon lost his job to: Sean Salisbury, Mark Rypien, Steve Bono, and Elvis Grbac.

Trent Green lost his job to Kurt Warner

Matt Cassel lost his job to Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, and Tom Brady and almost became a baseball player.

I could keep going but hopefully you get the point. Regardless of whether you like Cassel or Orton better they both have proven they can be successful. If I was Cassel or Orton I would not want to compete I have already proven myself either make me the starter or I'm going somewhere where I can be the starter. That's like telling a Journeyman carpenter he has compete with another guy and if he loses he will become an apprentice again, I don't think so.

thats crap dude. U start a new job u generally have something to prove, no one is entitled to anything.....unless of course u r barrack obama. My father is a master chef, i am pretty good but when im in a kitchen there is always something to prove. Its called being competitive

figcrostic
01-03-2012, 01:41 PM
thats crap dude. U start a new job u generally have something to prove, no one is entitled to anything.....unless of course u r barrack obama. My father is a master chef, i am pretty good but when im in a kitchen there is always something to prove. Its called being competitive

The difference is you can be a chef until your in your 60's Kyle Orton is 28 he maybe has 5 or 6 good years left why would he want to spend them sitting on the bench he paid he dues just like everyone else has and wants to be a starter. On top of that when you meaning you nigeriannightmare start a job the person hiring you only has your word to go by and your refrences he doesn't know if you can cook a damn egg, on top of that if you aren't the best in the kitchen your still a chef your not sitting there watching the other chefs. We have years of film on Kyle Orton not to mention he just played 3 games for us, meaning he did prove himself already. Both guys are rich, it's not about the money they want to be a starter and they have a finite amount of time to do that.

chief31
01-03-2012, 01:47 PM
This bugs the heck out of me. Not the comment, which I agree with, but the perception that Orton doesn't want to compete. If that really is his attitude then I say, "Good riddance." I don't want a QB who thinks he should just be handed the starting job and isn't willing to show he deserves it. I want a guy that is willing to sign with Green Bay or New England and says, "Yeah. That guy's good, but I can do better!"

On the other hand, I do understand when he says, "this is Cassel's team." While I do think that is, to a large extent, just hem showing respect as the newcomer, and being humble and politically correct, I can see that he may recognize that it will be difficult for the Chiefs to keep them both.

I can completely understand him wanting to be the starter and possibly taking a job where that is more likely. The thing is, he might not be in a position to make that happen.

The reality of the situation is that Orton lost his starting job to Grossman, was traded for Cutler and then lost it again to Tebow. Now if the Chiefs keep Cassel over him, that will be the 4th QB he has lost out to. He may have to earn the starting job regardless of where he signs. I think teams that desperately need a QB are more likely to go after a good rookie in the draft than overpay Orton who has shown ability, but hasn't shown that he can keep the starting job.

I think some here are over valuing Orton because he came in here and beat the packers right away. Given the way he has played the last 3 games, I think very highly of him as well, but I'm not sure other teams will feel the same way.

I also think that if Orton has to compete for the starting spot, his best chance of winning that competition is right here in KC. I think he has the talent to beat out Cassel, and the self confidence to believe he can do it.

If the Chiefs don't resign Kyle, I will be very disappointed, but I will understand and Matt will have my full support. But I really want to see Kyle iin a Cheifs uniform next summer.


thats crap dude. U start a new job u generally have something to prove, no one is entitled to anything.....unless of course u r barrack obama. My father is a master chef, i am pretty good but when im in a kitchen there is always something to prove. Its called being competitive

It is perfectly logical to want to avoid another QB competition, because the better QB is not always the winner.

Kyle Orton playerd far better QB than Tim Tebow, but was benched in favor of the lesser player.

And he took the starting job back from Grossman, after having been labelled the loser of the competition with Grossman, but later won it back.

But, for a guy who has already been pulled for leeser QBs on multiple occaisions to want to avoid another, similar situation, is not fear of competition, but fear of a rigged competition.

He is going to find it hard to find any team willing to name him as "the man" though.

Everybody will have some other option that they hope to have beat him out.

I am not sure that he will get a better shake than what he would get here.

figcrostic
01-03-2012, 01:54 PM
It is perfectly logical to want to avoid another QB competition, because the better QB is not always the winner.

Kyle Orton playerd far better QB than Tim Tebow, but was benched in favor of the lesser player.

And he took the starting job back from Grossman, after having been labelled the loser of the competition with Grossman, but later won it back.

But, for a guy who has already been pulled for leeser QBs on multiple occaisions to want to avoid another, similar situation, is not fear of competition, but fear of a rigged competition.

He is going to find it hard to find any team willing to name him as "the man" though.

Everybody will have some other option that they hope to have beat him out.

I am not sure that he will get a better shake than what he would get here.

My thoughts exactly Tebow is a far worse QB and he got the starting role it was extremely premature to get rid of Orton. Orton in my opinon could be the starting qb on quite a few teams but we will see he's a free agent. BTW what do we get for him if he does sign with someone else?

nigeriannightmare
01-03-2012, 02:32 PM
When ur a professional at whatever it is u do and u go somewhere nnew ur gonna have to prove what makes u a professional. If orton is so jaded and thinks hes above the competition he is not the leader i would want.

figcrostic
01-03-2012, 02:40 PM
When ur a professional at whatever it is u do and u go somewhere nnew ur gonna have to prove what makes u a professional. If orton is so jaded and thinks hes above the competition he is not the leader i would want.

Great I'm glad your not the HC!

Canada
01-03-2012, 02:44 PM
Good stats fig, but it doesnt matter what you tell cassel supporters.

They will always find excuses . "Shortened preseason, Jamaal charles got hurt, inexperienced line." The list will go on and on even though cassel and orton have had the exact same team.

For example Chief 31 post


"The biggest difference between the two situation, as Chiefs in 2011, is the timing of their experiences.

Cassel had his time coming of the shortened preseason, with a first time OC, and an O-line shake-up. Then there was the the loss of Jamaal Charles, whom the offense was designed around."

The chiefs won 4 straight was the team chemistry absolutely horrible then? See the excuses dont even add up. Chief 31 acts like the longer the season went on the better we played as a unit, we won 4 straight then proceeded to get blown out by a 0-7 team and lose to denver

And about the timing of their experiences? How about having only 5 days to practice with your team before going out and playing the defending super bowl champions.... And then winningSound like anyone you know??

Canada
01-03-2012, 02:50 PM
And about the timing of their experiences? How about having only 5 days to practice with your team before going out and playing the defending super bowl champions.... And then winningIm sorry, but are you seriously giving Orton the credit for that win?? 4 times in the red Zone and came away with 3 FGs. The defense won that game despite the QB not because of him.

Stats that matter...

Orton scored 19, 13 and 7 points in his 3 games and won 2 of them mostly due to the defense.

The only difference I can see between Cassel and Orton is that Orton keeps the offense out on the field long enough to give the defense a rest. Other than that they are both average at best!!

figcrostic
01-03-2012, 03:04 PM
Im sorry, but are you seriously giving Orton the credit for that win?? 4 times in the red Zone and came away with 3 FGs. The defense won that game despite the QB not because of him.

Stats that matter...

Orton scored 19, 13 and 7 points in his 3 games and won 2 of them mostly due to the defense.

The only difference I can see between Cassel and Orton is that Orton keeps the offense out on the field long enough to give the defense a rest. Other than that they are both average at best!!

That's a fair assessment :bananen_smilies046: but to me just that can help win games.

nigeriannightmare
01-03-2012, 05:12 PM
Great I'm glad your not the HC!

I wont say i told u so when orton is a back up next yr.

Canada
01-03-2012, 05:35 PM
Forget Orton and Cassel...lets go get Matt Flynn from the Packers!!

okikcfan
01-03-2012, 06:26 PM
Forget Orton and Cassel...lets go get Matt Flynn from the Packers!!

With a good offense line and receivers he could do well here....

figcrostic
01-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Forget Orton and Cassel...lets go get Matt Flynn from the Packers!!
Very risky move and if he doesn't pan out Pioli would be out the door, I doubt he goes for Flynn.

AkChief49
01-03-2012, 06:39 PM
Very risky move and if he doesn't pan out Pioli would be out the door, I doubt he goes for Flynn.

My opinion would be to keep either Cassl or Orton, build the O and D lines. Either one of them with a running game and a real good line would be okay. I also would rather that we went after Manning if we were to go after any one.

I have stated before that I was against going for him-age etc. but after thinking about it, Manning and our receivers would work-key is to have a real good line to protect him. He has two or three years left,(as long as the neck heals) and who better for Stanzi to apprentice under?

figcrostic
01-03-2012, 07:03 PM
My opinion would be to keep either Cassl or Orton, build the O and D lines. Either one of them with a running game and a real good line would be okay. I also would rather that we went after Manning if we were to go after any one.

I have stated before that I was against going for him-age etc. but after thinking about it, Manning and our receivers would work-key is to have a real good line to protect him. He has two or three years left,(as long as the neck heals) and who better for Stanzi to apprentice under?

He had me til I read the second paragraph no to Manning, yes to building our line.

nigeriannightmare
01-03-2012, 08:51 PM
and we go 7-9 again

Ill bet whatever u want that we arent 7 and 9 next yr. Whatever u want. Im not scared not one bit. In fact ill bet u we win a playoff gane if not two....

Canada
01-04-2012, 03:51 PM
I agree, atleast orton can make reads and hit WR. Cassel seems to lock onto one guy whoever is the first option. We seem to move the ball better with orton, the timing in the red zone will get there with practice and reps with his WRI do think getting Charles back will help out red zone offense greatly too!!

okikcfan
01-04-2012, 07:56 PM
I do think getting Charles back will help out red zone offense greatly too!!

And building up the offensive line...

AkChief49
01-04-2012, 08:21 PM
And building up the offensive line...
This absolutely(either FA or draft) has to happen. The rest of it will fall into place.

dbolan
01-05-2012, 10:55 AM
Im sorry, but are you seriously giving Orton the credit for that win?? 4 times in the red Zone and came away with 3 FGs. The defense won that game despite the QB not because of him.

Stats that matter...

Orton scored 19, 13 and 7 points in his 3 games and won 2 of them mostly due to the defense.

The only difference I can see between Cassel and Orton is that Orton keeps the offense out on the field long enough to give the defense a rest. Other than that they are both average at best!!

He only had one WR that was a target threat. Too easy to double cover Bowe in the red zone.

No running attack to punch it in either.

Just sayin....

Canada
01-05-2012, 02:59 PM
He only had one WR that was a target threat. Too easy to double cover Bowe in the red zone.

No running attack to punch it in either.

Just sayin....So that makes him good? He hit 10 different receivers in that game. He had plenty of options to throw to.


And if we are still comparing him to Cassel, the same thing can be said!!

dbolan
01-06-2012, 02:31 PM
So that makes him good? He hit 10 different receivers in that game. He had plenty of options to throw to.


And if we are still comparing him to Cassel, the same thing can be said!!

The RED ZONE is not between the 20's. Different ball game there.:whipping1:

Canada
01-06-2012, 04:00 PM
The RED ZONE is not between the 20's. Different ball game there.:whipping1:
You confuse me...so he can hit 10 different Receivers on the field...but soon as they are in the Red Zone he cant?? ....how does this make him better than Cassel??

figcrostic
01-06-2012, 06:23 PM
You confuse me...so he can hit 10 different Receivers on the field...but soon as they are in the Red Zone he cant?? ....how does this make him better than Cassel??

Right now I'd say he is better because he doesn't go 3 nearly as much as Cassel, he moves the ball better, he may not score a lot of TD's (neither do) but he puts our offense on the field longer which in turn cuts the time the other teams offense is on the field and we have a fresh strong defense that can contain the other team, and he gets us in kicking range those blocks were not his fault. I personally do not think either are great qb's are the long term answer but at the moment I believe Orton gives us a better chance to win.

Canada
01-07-2012, 09:37 AM
Right now I'd say he is better because he doesn't go 3 nearly as much as Cassel, he moves the ball better, he may not score a lot of TD's (neither do) but he puts our offense on the field longer which in turn cuts the time the other teams offense is on the field and we have a fresh strong defense that can contain the other team, and he gets us in kicking range those blocks were not his fault. I personally do not think either are great qb's are the long term answer but at the moment I believe Orton gives us a better chance to win.
I have said this all along. But that is still not a guy that is winning us games. That is a guy that is allowing the defense to win us games. My point in all of this is that we are all discussing who is the better of two average (at best) QBs. I think people give Cassel fat too much sh!t and Orton far too much credit. Lets be honest...if Orton had lost to Green Bay none of us would be having this conversation.

figcrostic
01-07-2012, 12:02 PM
I have said this all along. But that is still not a guy that is winning us games. That is a guy that is allowing the defense to win us games. My point in all of this is that we are all discussing who is the better of two average (at best) QBs. I think people give Cassel fat too much sh!t and Orton far too much credit. Lets be honest...if Orton had lost to Green Bay none of us would be having this conversation.

I'm not even sure what we are arguing/discussing I think Orton is a little better then Cassel but neither are great or the long team answer, do you agree or disagree?

Canada
01-07-2012, 12:40 PM
I'm not even sure what we are arguing/discussing I think Orton is a little better then Cassel but neither are great or the long team answer, do you agree or disagree?
Me neither. I think if you grade the pro and cons they work out to be the same. Orton moves the ball well, but I like Cassel in the Red Zone. I say put Orton in between the 20s and Cassel in the Red Zone.

Ultimately I could care less if either guy is around in Sept. We need to upgrade at the QB spot. :bananen_smilies046:

70 chiefsfan70
01-07-2012, 03:52 PM
Me neither. I think if you grade the pro and cons they work out to be the same. Orton moves the ball well, but I like Cassel in the Red Zone. I say put Orton in between the 20s and Cassel in the Red Zone.

Ultimately I could care less if either guy is around in Sept. We need to upgrade at the QB spot. :bananen_smilies046:
I agree the QB spot is as weak or weaker then the OL. However I think we need at least one of these guys for depth or for starting, without either of them we only have Stanzi and who knows what he has. I'd like to see the Chiefs sign Orton and draft a qb in the first or second round. I would not have a problem trading up or down, if it helps land a qb in the first two rounds.

chief31
01-07-2012, 04:12 PM
All that Cassel, or Orton needs is some support.

We have watched both guys play at a level that most of us seem to think they are incapable of.

Pick either guy, and commit to him, while working to improve the offense around him, and either one can get this team to the top of the heap.

Orton had spent two straight seasons playing the part of the 4,000 yard passer, while basically doubling his INTs with TD passes.

And Cassel has had two exceptional seasons, of the three and a half that he has played.

You provide either of these guys with the kind of support that your "elite" QBs get, and they will become "elite" QBs.

This nonstop merry-go-round ride, where we try to dump everybody every other season is what keeps teams like The Browns, The Raiders, and, currently, The Chiefs, from become serious contenders.

We have had major changes to the offense each of the past three seasons.

Find a plan, and stick to it.

figcrostic
01-08-2012, 01:50 PM
All that Cassel, or Orton needs is some support.

We have watched both guys play at a level that most of us seem to think they are incapable of.

Pick either guy, and commit to him, while working to improve the offense around him, and either one can get this team to the top of the heap.

Orton had spent two straight seasons playing the part of the 4,000 yard passer, while basically doubling his INTs with TD passes.

And Cassel has had two exceptional seasons, of the three and a half that he has played.

You provide either of these guys with the kind of support that your "elite" QBs get, and they will become "elite" QBs.

This nonstop merry-go-round ride, where we try to dump everybody every other season is what keeps teams like The Browns, The Raiders, and, currently, The Chiefs, from become serious contenders.

We have had major changes to the offense each of the past three seasons.

Find a plan, and stick to it.

I agree whomever is our qb needs a solid line and the ability to take advantage of what the defense is doing if they are blitzing don't run the ball up the middle, drop the ball of to your slot receiver and pick up a first down.

AkChief49
01-08-2012, 05:06 PM
All that Cassel, or Orton needs is some support.

We have watched both guys play at a level that most of us seem to think they are incapable of.

Pick either guy, and commit to him, while working to improve the offense around him, and either one can get this team to the top of the heap.

Orton had spent two straight seasons playing the part of the 4,000 yard passer, while basically doubling his INTs with TD passes.

And Cassel has had two exceptional seasons, of the three and a half that he has played.

You provide either of these guys with the kind of support that your "elite" QBs get, and they will become "elite" QBs.

This nonstop merry-go-round ride, where we try to dump everybody every other season is what keeps teams like The Browns, The Raiders, and, currently, The Chiefs, from become serious contenders.

We have had major changes to the offense each of the past three seasons.

Find a plan, and stick to it.
You're probably right, a good line -either of them would do.
Can anyone tell me if Stanzi has any shot? Is he viable with a little time? Or is he a big waste of it?

chief31
01-09-2012, 01:24 AM
You're probably right, a good line -either of them would do.
Can anyone tell me if Stanzi has any shot? Is he viable with a little time? Or is he a big waste of it?

I would say.... check the roster in September. It's tough to say how the team feels about the guy, since we haven't seen him.

So the only real barometer I will be able to use is rather or not he is with this team next year, and in what role.