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whackojacko58
01-12-2012, 04:45 PM
PAY THE MAN!!!
:dbowe:
:bounce016: :bounce016:

figcrostic
01-12-2012, 05:03 PM
I agree

whackojacko58
01-12-2012, 06:16 PM
we need to lock him up for a 5 year deal hes been unbelievable even with 7 different qbs throwing him passes during his career with the same team!

kcchiefsfan18
01-12-2012, 07:25 PM
He has 5 more 1,000 yard seasons to come, pay him.

dbolan
01-13-2012, 12:19 PM
In regards to "paying" him, you guys may consider one thing before jumping into a huge financial signing...

While Bowe is a very good WR, his competition on the team has never really there. He has been the best of what "we" have.

Granted, Breaston has put up pretty decent numbers, but other than that, there has been no one else to compete for the catches.

Keep him? Okay. But Top dollar..I would not.

OPLookn
01-13-2012, 12:45 PM
In regards to "paying" him, you guys may consider one thing before jumping into a huge financial signing...

While Bowe is a very good WR, his competition on the team has never really there. He has been the best of what "we" have.

Granted, Breaston has put up pretty decent numbers, but other than that, there has been no one else to compete for the catches.

Keep him? Okay. But Top dollar..I would not.

Bowe is one of 19 receivers that had 1000+ yards this year. He was 56 yards from being in the top 10 and had Palko throwing....ok attempting to throw to him for four games.

While I don't think he's the end all be all they guy's good enough to pay pretty good money.

From what the concensus seems to be Cassel will come back and we'll be addressing the line issues. Give Bowe another year, franchise him if needs be and see what he does. I'd be shocked if Bowe isn't in the top 10 next year and would be on the fence of betting that he'd be in the top 5. If he is then pay him top dollar. But I'd say that Baldwin challenges him more this year and will only continue to keep pushing him each successive year.

dbolan
01-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Bowe is one of 19 receivers that had 1000+ yards this year. He was 56 yards from being in the top 10 and had Palko throwing....ok attempting to throw to him for four games.

While I don't think he's the end all be all they guy's good enough to pay pretty good money.

From what the concensus seems to be Cassel will come back and we'll be addressing the line issues. Give Bowe another year, franchise him if needs be and see what he does. I'd be shocked if Bowe isn't in the top 10 next year and would be on the fence of betting that he'd be in the top 5. If he is then pay him top dollar. But I'd say that Baldwin challenges him more this year and will only continue to keep pushing him each successive year.


Not top dollar= Pretty good money, in my books!

matthewschiefs
01-13-2012, 02:04 PM
In regards to "paying" him, you guys may consider one thing before jumping into a huge financial signing...

While Bowe is a very good WR, his competition on the team has never really there. He has been the best of what "we" have.

Granted, Breaston has put up pretty decent numbers, but other than that, there has been no one else to compete for the catches.

Keep him? Okay. But Top dollar..I would not.

I agree with you. Bowe should be paid pretty well but he shouldn't be the highest paid WR in the nfl. He just has to many games where he does a disappearing act and drops to many passes that he should catch to be paid that much. He should be around the highest paid WRs in the not the top IMO

AkChief49
01-13-2012, 04:56 PM
I agree with you. Bowe should be paid pretty well but he shouldn't be the highest paid WR in the nfl. He just has to many games where he does a disappearing act and drops to many passes that he should catch to be paid that much. He should be around the highest paid WRs in the not the top IMO
I agree with you that you agree with him......:D


Bowe is near the top, just not top shelf, he's a couple levels from the elite. As you said, he's dropped too many passes-especially ones that would have made a difference. He's caught a few that made a difference, but the name of this game is "what have you done for me lately"?

Jrudi
01-13-2012, 05:41 PM
Bowe's stats and Rankings:

2011 (Tagged as a "Down Year" for him)
81 Rec. (10th in NFL)
1,159 yds (13th in NFL)
5TD's

2010 (Considered his "Career" year)
72 Receptions (19th in NFL)
1,162 yds (7th in NFL)
15 TD's (1st in NFL)

2009 (Haley Being Haley only allowed him to 9 starts)
47 Rec (74th in NFL) (projected over a full season would have been 83 with 5.2 Rec per game, would have ranked 12th in NFL)
589 yds (69th in NFL) (projected over a full season would have been 66 yds/game for 1,056yds, 19th in NFL)
4TD's (projected over a full season would have been 7TDs)

2008
86 Rec (10th in NFL)
1,022 yds (18th in NFL)
7TD's

2007 (Rookie Season)
70 Rec. (29th in NFL)
995 yds (24th in NFL)
5TD's

So if you look at averages:
(taking into consideration he plays a full season in 09 with Haley)

79 Receptions per season
1,078 yards per season
8 TD's per season

That's a lot of categories in the top 10 and 20 of the NFL over a span of 5 seasons.....This is also with QB's like Brody Croyle, Damond Huard, Tyler Thigpen, Tyler Palko, Matt Cassel, and Kyle Orton Throwing him the ball. Just imagine what the numbers would be if he had someone like a Brady, Brees, or Rogers tossing it to him!

Also, for being labeled as an "inconsistent player" those numbers (outside of the 09 mess with Haley) are pretty dang consistent if you ask me.

No, I would not say he is the best WR in the NFL A La Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald, but I would consider him a top 10-15...So he deserves to get paid, If we don't someone will.....

matthewschiefs
01-13-2012, 05:56 PM
No, I would not say he is the best WR in the NFL A La Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald, but I would consider him a top 10-15...So he deserves to get paid, If we don't someone will.....

I would agree that he's a top ten WR. I guess when talking about paying Top dollar depends on what you think top dollar is. To me right now Bowe doesn't deserve top dollar because I view that as top guy in the NFL or at least the top 2. Bowe hasn't had the best Qb play. But Great WRS like Bowe can be don't go full games without a single catch. Something Bowe does from time to time. They find a way to get themselfs into the game. That's what I want to see out of Bowe. That's what given a good OC and the play calling getting better I think can happen. But right now I don't think Bowe deserves Top dollar for him.

Jrudi
01-13-2012, 06:11 PM
I would agree that he's a top ten WR. I guess when talking about paying Top dollar depends on what you think top dollar is. To me right now Bowe doesn't deserve top dollar because I view that as top guy in the NFL or at least the top 2. Bowe hasn't had the best Qb play. But Great WRS like Bowe can be don't go full games without a single catch. Something Bowe does from time to time. They find a way to get themselfs into the game. That's what I want to see out of Bowe. That's what given a good OC and the play calling getting better I think can happen. But right now I don't think Bowe deserves Top dollar for him.

See I would consider top dollar somewhere in the mix of the top 10 highest receiver salaries.

Which if you think about it, wouldn't be that much different than if we just tagged him (because it's the average to the 10 highest paid at the WR position)

So we might actually save money by tagging him this year and wait to sign him during the season.

chief31
01-13-2012, 08:22 PM
I would absolutely pay him like a top ten WR.

He is.

Put him on some pass-happy offense, and I expect that his "shinies" (Pretty stats) would be too bright for anybody to argue against.

figcrostic
01-13-2012, 08:44 PM
I would absolutely pay him like a top ten WR.

He is.

Put him on some pass-happy offense, and I expect that his "shinies" (Pretty stats) would be too bright for anybody to argue against.



Even on our un-pass happy offense he still looks pretty damn good.

AussieChiefsFan
01-14-2012, 07:09 AM
PAY THE MAN!!!
:dbowe:
:bounce016: :bounce016:

Must be done!

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Negotiations have been ongoing with Bowe & the Chiefs. Y'all have to remember it's a two way street. Bowe may desire to explore Free Agency, and he could desire to play for a different team for reasons other than money. Many players consider location, such as for reasons of being closer to family, etc..

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:15 PM
Oh, and trust me...no one wants Bowe to remain a Chief more than I do. He became a favorite Chief when we drafted him in 2007, but by 2009 he had evolved into my #1 favorite Chief player. Even during his worst struggling year of 2009 when many fans were screaming he was no good, at best a #2 WR because of many drops...I stood firm believing he is a #1 WR. He proved many wrong in 2010, proving himself and substantiating my belief in him as a #1.

I will be heartbroken if Bowe leaves the Chiefs, but I understand the NFL is a business. I also understand Bowe will need to do what's best for he and his family, of whom he has many he's responsible for financially...he cares for his grandparents, his former HS coach & his wife, his brother...are on his payroll.

Eydugstr
01-17-2012, 10:26 PM
I say keep him. Right now we have the best recieving corps I've ever seen wearing red & gold. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

:chiefs:

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:31 PM
I say keep him. Right now we have the best recieving corps I've ever seen wearing red & gold. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

:chiefs:

Exactly!!! Let's just hope Bowe wants to remain a Chief & stay in KC, which I believe he does based upon his own comments saying how much he loves KC and the fans.

I know Pioli likes Bowe, and wants to keep him too...he's stated such publicly more than once.

According to those who witnessed it...word is the final straw that led to Haley's firing before the season ended...was because of a conflict Haley had with Bowe during practice. Haley belittled Bowe, calling him some bad names. Bowe went to Pioli about it. Pioli felt Haley was creating enough of a problem with many players like Bowe...that some players wouldn't remain in KC if Haley did. :/

If all those accounts are accurate, well, Haley's gone now...so those players uncomfortable with Haley as HC don't have that concern now.

okikcfan
01-17-2012, 10:40 PM
Let's hope with Crennel as HC they prefer to stay.

bricooper78
01-18-2012, 02:14 AM
I really have made myself believe Bowe was showing give up just to try to drive a spike in Haley's coaching chest.
I would, there is no way that sawed off little punk would have screamed at me like that in public!
That was the greatest thing to see from all the players, the light came back on! I hope we resign these guys, and come back with a vengance next year!

Connie Jo
01-18-2012, 02:58 AM
Bowe's stats and Rankings:

2011 (Tagged as a "Down Year" for him)
81 Rec. (10th in NFL)
1,159 yds (13th in NFL)
5TD's

2010 (Considered his "Career" year)
72 Receptions (19th in NFL)
1,162 yds (7th in NFL)
15 TD's (1st in NFL)

2009 (Haley Being Haley only allowed him to 9 starts)
47 Rec (74th in NFL) (projected over a full season would have been 83 with 5.2 Rec per game, would have ranked 12th in NFL)
589 yds (69th in NFL) (projected over a full season would have been 66 yds/game for 1,056yds, 19th in NFL)
4TD's (projected over a full season would have been 7TDs)

2008
86 Rec (10th in NFL)
1,022 yds (18th in NFL)
7TD's

2007 (Rookie Season)
70 Rec. (29th in NFL)
995 yds (24th in NFL)
5TD's

So if you look at averages:
(taking into consideration he plays a full season in 09 with Haley)

79 Receptions per season
1,078 yards per season
8 TD's per season

That's a lot of categories in the top 10 and 20 of the NFL over a span of 5 seasons.....This is also with QB's like Brody Croyle, Damond Huard, Tyler Thigpen, Tyler Palko, Matt Cassel, and Kyle Orton Throwing him the ball. Just imagine what the numbers would be if he had someone like a Brady, Brees, or Rogers tossing it to him!

Also, for being labeled as an "inconsistent player" those numbers (outside of the 09 mess with Haley) are pretty dang consistent if you ask me.

No, I would not say he is the best WR in the NFL A La Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald, but I would consider him a top 10-15...So he deserves to get paid, If we don't someone will.....

I agree completely with all. I sure don't want to lose him, he's the best WR we've had in years, maybe ever.

tornadospotter
01-18-2012, 03:27 AM
I agree completely with all. I sure don't want to lose him, he's the best WR we've had in years, maybe ever.
I would not agree with that just yet. Time will tell, as it always will. DB in my humble opinion has not yet made anything. He is a can be, question still remains, will he be! You all can say what ever about the passes to him, they where not catch-able, but then what does that say about the QB who threw the pass? My problem with DB is he makes great plays, but inconsistent where it means the most. Drops easy catches.

dbolan
01-18-2012, 08:53 AM
So..>With all of that said, how many years does he need to be what he should be? 2 more? 3 more?

70 chiefsfan70
01-18-2012, 12:12 PM
I would not agree with that just yet. Time will tell, as it always will. DB in my humble opinion has not yet made anything. He is a can be, question still remains, will he be! You all can say what ever about the passes to him, they where not catch-able, but then what does that say about the QB who threw the pass? My problem with DB is he makes great plays, but inconsistent where it means the most. Drops easy catches.


I agree, I think this pass season would and should have been his breakout year and for whatever reason it didn't work that way. It was even a end of contract year. It may mostly have been Haleys inability to lead, play calling was horrible, of course injuries hurt, the qb situation was just about bad as can be. We could use all of those excuses but he certainly is better then this years numbers. I hope we can resign him long term, just not sure he wants that. I expect we franchise him.

AkChief49
01-18-2012, 07:53 PM
I would not agree with that just yet. Time will tell, as it always will. DB in my humble opinion has not yet made anything. He is a can be, question still remains, will he be! You all can say what ever about the passes to him, they where not catch-able, but then what does that say about the QB who threw the pass? My problem with DB is he makes great plays, but inconsistent where it means the most. Drops easy catches.
My beef with him as well! I'd like to see him stay here, but I'm betting he wants too much to do so.

Eydugstr
01-19-2012, 11:05 AM
Even on our un-pass happy offense he still looks pretty damn good.

That's what I was thinking...Listen, Bowe might not be perfect, but give the guy some credit. He's made some spectacular catches, many in situations where if we had any less of a reciever, we wouldn't have had those yards, first downs or touchdowns.

AussieChiefsFan
01-19-2012, 01:27 PM
I agree completely with all. I sure don't want to lose him, he's the best WR we've had in years, maybe ever.

I think Otis Taylor was the best we ever had, but Bowe is definately the best we've had in a while!

Drunker Hillbilly
01-19-2012, 06:24 PM
Not worth top dollar IMO. He was 2nd in the league in drops this year and was near the top in prior years. The spectacular he can do, the routine sometimes is in question. Way to unreliable in my book to give him top money.

nigeriannightmare
01-19-2012, 06:37 PM
Not worth top dollar IMO. He was 2nd in the league in drops this year and was near the top in prior years. The spectacular he can do, the routine sometimes is in question. Way to unreliable in my book to give him top money.

I highly doubt d bowe is back because he does drop easy balls and is not gonna get a top contract. Hes been at the top of the league in drops since hes been here but baldwin dropped sone easy ones this year too. U know some team is gonna give him a fat contract. Despite the dropped balls he still helped us win games and if he isnt a chief i hope he plays well where ever he ends up. He ends up a donkey or a charger itll be another story. I dont know im reminded of neil smith. Didnt carl not want to pay him and then he went to the donkeys.

tornadospotter
01-19-2012, 09:52 PM
I think Otis Taylor was the best we ever had, but Bowe is definately the best we've had in a while!
DB is not, Kennision, was so far. imo

chief31
01-20-2012, 02:19 AM
I like Kennison. But Bowe is surpassing him, and doing it with an offense that tries to avoid passing the ball.

Yes, he makes some mistakes. A little more often than average, even. But he is absolutely a #1 WR in my opinion.

We have not had a WR near his ability since.... Well, longer than I have been a Chiefs fan.

Jrudi
01-23-2012, 03:24 PM
I've thought about this a little bit...

and it is tough to actually rank a top 15 or 20 at a single position, because of multiple factors, some guys are better than others in different categories, so I figured I would set up some groups or tiers....

I think we could all agree on the 1st tier...These guys are considered ELITE TOP LEVEL TALENT and GAME CHANGERS week in and week out. They are the focus of opposing defenses game plans, and defenses feel that it is the top priority to stop these players to beat the team. These players would be respected the same no matter what team they are on.

Tier 1:
Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, & Larry Fiztgerrald

The 2nd tier consists of players which I feel are below these 3 elite players, but can and would be able to go to any team, and be the unquestioned #1 WR. Opposing defenses make it a priority to adjust their game plans to make it an emphasis to defend these WR's, but it is mixed in along with stopping 1-2 other key players on the team such as a RB or QB. These players also fit the ideal "mold" in both size and speed that NFL clubs look for in a #1WR.

Tier 2:
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Dwayne Bowe
Hakeem Nicks
Marques Colston
Gregg Jennings


Tier 3 is a list of players who are good players, which rank just below the teir 2 players, but have benefited from the system they are in and QB they have throwing them the ball, and I question if their skills would transition to another team. These players may also lack in areas of the ideal size/speed teams look for in a #1WR. Opposing D's game plane against them similar to the teir 2, but If any of the above mentioned players were on the same roster, it would take the focus off of these players

(It could be argued that Bowe's drops could bring him down to this level, but I feel that Bowe would be considered the #1WR if he were on the same roster as any of these players, as well as Bowe has shown to be productive in an already run-first system, and going to a system like GB, NO, or NE could elevate his play even more)

Tier 3:
Wes Welker
(Welker has been made into a superstar because of Brady, he was a pedestrian receiver in Miami, and New England would not continue to look for and Elite #1WR if they felt Welker was the guy, he is good, but his play has been elevated by Brady's excellence)

Anquan Boldin
(very gifted physically, and fits the size mold, but his lack of success in the Baltimore system shows he benefited from Fitz, and Warner throwing him the ball. He could easily be rated in tier 2 if it weren't for the proof of production drop off in another system, pairing him with any of the tier 2 would be a lethal combo, and would benefit both WR's)

DeSean Jackson
(There was a reason he slipped into the 2nd round, he is a burner, but that's all he's got, his attitude problems drop him down on this hierarchy)

Mike Wallace
(another burner that is young, I feel he is close to moving up on this list, is streaky with his play and hasn't proven to me that he would be the unquestioned #1 WR on another team)

Steve Smith (Carolina) and Reggie Wayne
(both that have been dropped recently due to age, Smith had an outstanding season, but his downfall the previous few years has shown he benefits from who is throwing him the ball, the same goes for Wayne after Manning went down)

Jordy Nelson
(He's got Rogers tossing him the rock, and would not be a #1 WR on another team if the any of the above teir 2 WR's were on the same roster)


Tier 4 is a list of players that fit the same idea of tier 3, they are just below the tier 3 recievers...

Tier 3:
Vincent Jackson
(the Guy's only had 2 60+ catch seasons, and those were only 60 (this year) and 69 in 2009. Has the size, but I think the Ego's bigger than his play)

Santonio Holmes (Lacks the size, and has attitude problems)

Miles Austin (Had one good season, and that's about it)

Steve Johson (Lacks the size, but is a good WR and arrow is pointing up)


So let the debate begin... let's find 15-20 WR's in the NFL that are considered better than Bowe. Which WR's are on the wrong list?

It really came to to my attention when I went to NFL.com to look at stats... was tough to find that many that are really that good, and fit the prototypical size that franchises look for in the #1WR, and have averaged better or similar stats to Bowe since he has been in the league...

chief31
01-23-2012, 07:39 PM
Tier 3:
Wes Welker
(Welker has been made into a superstar because of Brady, he was a pedestrian receiver in Miami, and New England would not continue to look for and Elite #1WR if they felt Welker was the guy, he is good, but his play has been elevated by Brady's excellence)



I'd have Welker in the top tier.

When Brady was lost for the 2008 season, he had 111 catches, for 1,165 yards with Matt Cassel. Not to mention what he does after the catch is all about Wes Welker. And The Dolphins only started Welker in three games in 2005 & 2006. And, with only three starts, over two years, he had 96 catches and 1,121 yards.

chief31
01-23-2012, 07:47 PM
And I would also have to include Brandon Lloyd somewhere too.

I know Fig has a pretty low opinion of him. But he had 70 catches, for 996 Yards this season (Missed a game), and 1,448 yards, with 11 TDs last year.

Although, I understand how one could overlook him, as NFL.com separates his games with the two teams.

figcrostic
01-23-2012, 08:24 PM
And I would also have to include Brandon Lloyd somewhere too.

I know Fig has a pretty low opinion of him. But he had 70 catches, for 996 Yards this season (Missed a game), and 1,448 yards, with 11 TDs last year.

Although, I understand how one could overlook him, as NFL.com separates his games with the two teams.



I don't have a low opinon of him I just think Orton inflated his numbers

chief31
01-23-2012, 09:20 PM
I don't have a low opinon of him I just think Orton inflated his numbers

Well, it is lower than mine.

But I think the pass-happy offense Mcdaniels employed inflated Orton's numbers.

Jrudi
01-24-2012, 11:34 AM
I'd have Welker in the top tier.

When Brady was lost for the 2008 season, he had 111 catches, for 1,165 yards with Matt Cassel. Not to mention what he does after the catch is all about Wes Welker. And The Dolphins only started Welker in three games in 2005 & 2006. And, with only three starts, over two years, he had 96 catches and 1,121 yards.

I knew someone would have said this....

Fact of the matter is, I agree with Collin Cowherd on this (which I usually don't) but seriously... When Randy Moss was there who was considered the #1WR? Moss

Why are they still trying to find another WR (Ochocinco...)

I'm not saying Welker isn't a good receiver... I'm just saying that I don't feel he would be near as productive or consistent if he didn't have Brady throwing him the ball.

And if another team signed him...They wouldn't look at him as the answer to their WR problems and focus on him being "The Man" within their WR corps. Welker "pairs well" with other Recievers, and is not a stand alone player..

And the 96 catches for 1,121 yards sounds good, for one season.... if you look at it, it's 48 catches per year with 560.5 yards per season.....

And you forgot to mention that those were actually his 3rd and 4th seasons.... He was with the chargers his rookie year, and only played in 1 game...went to the Dolphins in year 2 and was active for 14 games with NO CATCHES... 29 in 05' and 67 in 06'...Then he goes to New England and his numbers sky rocket...

Just saying..he is a product of Brady...He is a decent receiver, but wouldn't reproduce those numbers elsewhere


And I would also have to include Brandon Lloyd somewhere too.

I know Fig has a pretty low opinion of him. But he had 70 catches, for 996 Yards this season (Missed a game), and 1,448 yards, with 11 TDs last year.

Although, I understand how one could overlook him, as NFL.com separates his games with the two teams.



Brandon Lloyd should not be on this list anywhere....

Only 1 season with 1000 +yards does not get you on the list I'm sorry it just doesn't

He doesn't have the prototypical size for a #1WR, He's been in the league for 9 YEARS, and no one knew his name before last season.

I will admit he had a good season last year, and despite moving teams had an OK season this year, but I don't consider him to be elite. If he was a top 15 wide out, why does everyone have the rams Targeting Justin Blackmon in the draft?

You do realize Blackmon will be who they want their #1WR to be don't you?

Just sayin...Lloyd doesn't belong on this list...

OPLookn
01-24-2012, 11:36 AM
I'd have Welker in the top tier.

When Brady was lost for the 2008 season, he had 111 catches, for 1,165 yards with Matt Cassel. Not to mention what he does after the catch is all about Wes Welker. And The Dolphins only started Welker in three games in 2005 & 2006. And, with only three starts, over two years, he had 96 catches and 1,121 yards.

Welker played in all 16 games for Miami in 2005 and 2006. He might have only started in 3 games though. If he only played in 3 games he'd have to have 32 catches a game and while possible I don't see that as probable.

Wes Welker Stats - New England Patriots - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5941/wes-welker)

:lol: :bananen_smilies046:

Ryfo18
01-24-2012, 11:38 AM
I think I'd put Mike Wallace and Welker in tier 2 personally. I've always been a huge fan of Steve Smith, and 4-5 years ago I would have had him much higher, but that's a good spot for now.

I think I'd bump Vincent Jackson up a tier. I just think he's notably better than everyone else in that list.

Jrudi
01-24-2012, 12:08 PM
I think I'd put Mike Wallace and Welker in tier 2 personally. I've always been a huge fan of Steve Smith, and 4-5 years ago I would have had him much higher, but that's a good spot for now.

I think I'd bump Vincent Jackson up a tier. I just think he's notably better than everyone else in that list.

I think I can agree with you on that...and I was going to until I realized he has only had 2 60+ catch seasons, it made me re-think it... He had his first really good season with 69 catches, and then the hold-out debacle took place, and it made think maybe the media surrounding him was created to generate buzz about him to get the big contract.

I could agree to put him up a tier though...

chief31
01-25-2012, 12:05 AM
I knew someone would have said this....

Fact of the matter is, I agree with Collin Cowherd on this (which I usually don't) but seriously... When Randy Moss was there who was considered the #1WR? Moss

Why are they still trying to find another WR (Ochocinco...)

I'm not saying Welker isn't a good receiver... I'm just saying that I don't feel he would be near as productive or consistent if he didn't have Brady throwing him the ball.

And if another team signed him...They wouldn't look at him as the answer to their WR problems and focus on him being "The Man" within their WR corps. Welker "pairs well" with other Recievers, and is not a stand alone player..

And the 96 catches for 1,121 yards sounds good, for one season.... if you look at it, it's 48 catches per year with 560.5 yards per season.....

And you forgot to mention that those were actually his 3rd and 4th seasons.... He was with the chargers his rookie year, and only played in 1 game...went to the Dolphins in year 2 and was active for 14 games with NO CATCHES... 29 in 05' and 67 in 06'...Then he goes to New England and his numbers sky rocket...

Just saying..he is a product of Brady...He is a decent receiver, but wouldn't reproduce those numbers elsewhere



Brandon Lloyd should not be on this list anywhere....

Only 1 season with 1000 +yards does not get you on the list I'm sorry it just doesn't

He doesn't have the prototypical size for a #1WR, He's been in the league for 9 YEARS, and no one knew his name before last season.

I will admit he had a good season last year, and despite moving teams had an OK season this year, but I don't consider him to be elite. If he was a top 15 wide out, why does everyone have the rams Targeting Justin Blackmon in the draft?

You do realize Blackmon will be who they want their #1WR to be don't you?

Just sayin...Lloyd doesn't belong on this list...

Precisely how many 1,000 yard seasons does Jordy Neslon have?

Miles Austin has two.... Barely. And one of those had all of 45 yards more than Lloyd's 2011, where he missed one game, and was limited in a couple more, due to a mid-season trade. And Lloyd can also sub,it a 733 yard season, well eclipsing anything Austin has to add.

Same with Nicks.... His second 1,000 yard season exceeds Lloyd's 2011 by a whopping 56 yards.

Then you could also take into consideration that Lloyd even had his starting QB pulled in 2010, for Tim Tebow.

Santonio Holmes only has one 1,000 yard season too.

As for The Patriots looking for a compliment to Welker, how has "HOF" Ocho done while being overshadowed by Welker?

Even the immortal Randy Moss had fewer receiving yards than Welker, during his stay, and for two of the three full seasons he spent there. And Moss really not even that close, in any of those seasons, to the number of catches Welker was making.

Wes Welker is a better WR than Randy Moss was with The Patriots.

He has had two seasons with over 120 catches. And only one, of his last five, with less than 1,000 Yards, and 100 catches.

He plays the position he does, because he is unstoppable at that position.

Teams are putting their best coverage guys on him, and he still had the best season of his career, and a far better season that best of many HoF WRs.

They are looking for someone to play the other WR position because they want someone to play that position. They are not looking for anybody to play Wes Welker's position.

Jrudi
01-25-2012, 02:28 PM
Precisely how many 1,000 yard seasons does Jordy Neslon have?

Miles Austin has two.... Barely. And one of those had all of 45 yards more than Lloyd's 2011, where he missed one game, and was limited in a couple more, due to a mid-season trade. And Lloyd can also sub,it a 733 yard season, well eclipsing anything Austin has to add.

Same with Nicks.... His second 1,000 yard season exceeds Lloyd's 2011 by a whopping 56 yards.

Then you could also take into consideration that Lloyd even had his starting QB pulled in 2010, for Tim Tebow.

Santonio Holmes only has one 1,000 yard season too.

As for The Patriots looking for a compliment to Welker, how has "HOF" Ocho done while being overshadowed by Welker?

Even the immortal Randy Moss had fewer receiving yards than Welker, during his stay, and for two of the three full seasons he spent there. And Moss really not even that close, in any of those seasons, to the number of catches Welker was making.

Wes Welker is a better WR than Randy Moss was with The Patriots.

He has had two seasons with over 120 catches. And only one, of his last five, with less than 1,000 Yards, and 100 catches.

He plays the position he does, because he is unstoppable at that position.

Teams are putting their best coverage guys on him, and he still had the best season of his career, and a far better season that best of many HoF WRs.

They are looking for someone to play the other WR position because they want someone to play that position. They are not looking for anybody to play Wes Welker's position.


I can agree with you that Nelson and Austin should not be on this list at all...I put them on there because I didn't want to deal with this kind of talk after I didn't put them on there....

I still don't agree that Lloyd should be on there....I'm sorry if he may be a firend of your's or something being that he is from the KC area...But you can't seriously say that if all of the 32 teams were given an option to add Hakeem Nicks or Brandon Lloyd they would choose Llyod (regardless of who the teams receiver is now) I bet you 9 times out of 10 a GM would choose to add Nicks...

I mentioned that Welker should be bumped up...He is a good slot receiver...But He lacks the size that franchises look for in a PROTOTYPICAL WR, and I question weather or not he could produce the same results in a less pass happy system than the Patriots...

Off of the argument....The post was meant to show that Bowe is a to 10-15 Receiver, and he should be paid like one... Weather or not Llyod, Austin, Nelson or Welker are on that list and where they are located is meaningless to the point.

I don't feel Llyod, Austin, and Nelson are even close the receiver that Bowe is...and Welker could post an argument..but even with that said, there is only about 5-8 total that could be argued as a better prospect based on size, speed, numbers, and consistency

chief31
01-25-2012, 07:35 PM
I can agree with you that Nelson and Austin should not be on this list at all...I put them on there because I didn't want to deal with this kind of talk after I didn't put them on there....

I still don't agree that Lloyd should be on there....I'm sorry if he may be a firend of your's or something being that he is from the KC area...But you can't seriously say that if all of the 32 teams were given an option to add Hakeem Nicks or Brandon Lloyd they would choose Llyod (regardless of who the teams receiver is now) I bet you 9 times out of 10 a GM would choose to add Nicks...

I mentioned that Welker should be bumped up...He is a good slot receiver...But He lacks the size that franchises look for in a PROTOTYPICAL WR, and I question weather or not he could produce the same results in a less pass happy system than the Patriots...

Off of the argument....The post was meant to show that Bowe is a to 10-15 Receiver, and he should be paid like one... Weather or not Llyod, Austin, Nelson or Welker are on that list and where they are located is meaningless to the point.

I don't feel Llyod, Austin, and Nelson are even close the receiver that Bowe is...and Welker could post an argument..but even with that said, there is only about 5-8 total that could be argued as a better prospect based on size, speed, numbers, and consistency
I agree with you on Bowe. But you did invite all these discussions when you posted your list.] :D

Connie Jo
01-25-2012, 09:38 PM
I would not agree with that just yet. Time will tell, as it always will. DB in my humble opinion has not yet made anything. He is a can be, question still remains, will he be! You all can say what ever about the passes to him, they where not catch-able, but then what does that say about the QB who threw the pass? My problem with DB is he makes great plays, but inconsistent where it means the most. Drops easy catches.


I agree, I think this pass season would and should have been his breakout year and for whatever reason it didn't work that way. It was even a end of contract year. It may mostly have been Haleys inability to lead, play calling was horrible, of course injuries hurt, the qb situation was just about bad as can be. We could use all of those excuses but he certainly is better then this years numbers. I hope we can resign him long term, just not sure he wants that. I expect we franchise him.


I agree he's made some drops & misses he shouldn't have, but there could be many factors as to why, of which weren't his fault, nor completely his fault...or yes, all his fault. We really just don't know, only Bowe does. The bottom line is he still ranks among the top NFL WR's, over 1,000 yds. again in 2011, even during all the franchise drama & instability. I believe Haley could have spitefully ignored using him in game plan-playcalls, as well.

What hasn't been brought up in discussion to this point...is that not only does Bowe make incredible acrobatic catches, he also breaks tackles and as such was rated among the NFL's top WR's to do so.

Dwayne Bowe Led NFL In Broken Tackles Among Wide Receivers In 2011 - Barbecue Sauce - SB Nation Kansas City (http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2012/1/20/2721057/dwayne-bowe-led-nfl-in-broken-tackles-among-wide-receivers-in-2011)

Connie Jo
01-25-2012, 09:44 PM
I think Otis Taylor was the best we ever had, but Bowe is definately the best we've had in a while!

Otis Taylor was definitely our most legendary WR in Chiefs history, no doubt. That said, it's such a different game today, no way to really compare Otis to Bowe as such. So, more or less when I say I believe Bowe to be the best WR we've ever had, I'm referring to modern day NFL, and in general, or overall comparing ALL aspects, not just stats. ;)

Connie Jo
01-25-2012, 09:47 PM
I like Kennison. But Bowe is surpassing him, and doing it with an offense that tries to avoid passing the ball.

Yes, he makes some mistakes. A little more often than average, even. But he is absolutely a #1 WR in my opinion.

We have not had a WR near his ability since.... Well, longer than I have been a Chiefs fan.



Completely agree, including that I love Kennison also! Still, overall comparsion Bowe in my humble opinion surpasses him, including Bowe being among the NFL's top WR's to break tackles. He's also one hell of a blocker helping clear routes for his teammates on occasion. He's STRONG in every way. He also was listed among the FEW NFL players who showed up for camp in 2011 fit, conditioned, and ready to play, which indicates he's determined & committed to being the best...staying in shape during the off season, and a lockout too. His not being injured in 2011 is a result of that off season/lockout dedication to stay in shape & conditioned, ready to go!