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View Full Version : Everyone read this Pioli is a Joke.



hayden2004
01-15-2012, 09:55 AM
Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/14/3371495/arrowhead-anxiety-turnover-off.html)

azchiefsfan
01-15-2012, 10:16 AM
Wow, I think the writer could have shortened that up by about 50% or so. 38 anecdotes about how scared the former employees were and how unreasonably hard-nosed Pioli is. We get it, Pioli ain't nice! This is one man's spin. I guarantee many other employees say that there is now a culture of expectation rather than sloth and the whiner's are just the dead weight, trimmed to make way for those who want a winning culture. I've hated many jobs I worked at. One boss used to plant a penny or a paper clip in different out of the way places to see if we swept and mopped there-and that was at a pizza shop!

Coach
01-15-2012, 10:56 AM
Sounds like Pioli is trying to change the culture of the Chiefs and weed out the lifers that feel a sense of entitlement. I see no problem with doing either of those things.

Hayvern
01-15-2012, 11:22 AM
Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/14/3371495/arrowhead-anxiety-turnover-off.html)

The parade of people to say that this is wrong and that these people were wronged is some way will start ink three... Two... One.

I would really like to know one thing about these people who feel that they were being watched, What were you doing that you felt you needed to have secrecy? That goes for Haley too. If you are complaining and unhappy about your job, then it is your responsibility to do something about it, if it gets to management however, they are going to do something about it.

The candy wrapper story, that is a prime example of an organization that doesn't give a crap anymore. The fact that many people thought it was overblown is the second example. I would ask these people of they would leave a candy wrapper sitting in their hallway for a week without picking it up, undoubtedly, many would say yes.

I think Pioli and Hunt are setting an example for how they want this team to operate, get onboard or go somewhere else.

Canada
01-15-2012, 12:03 PM
I think its funny how much people hate Pioli. I liked the part where almost half the staff has turned over in the last 3 years....we also started winning in the last 3 years. Wierd

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 12:05 PM
I think this is more to do with just how laid back things where under the former GM. When a new boss walks in things change and the employees don't like it. I think that's where most of this comes from. Haley had a reason to be Paranoid about things. Any coach who was having a season like ours would be. I don't see much wrong with things that Pioli has done. Even if he is bugging places. Your trying to cut down on the leaks and the people who are more then willing to give out info that you would rather not want out there.

Hayvern
01-15-2012, 12:30 PM
I think this is more to do with just how laid back things where under the former GM. When a new boss walks in things change and the employees don't like it. I think that's where most of this comes from. Haley had a reason to be Paranoid about things. Any coach who was having a season like ours would be. I don't see much wrong with things that Pioli has done. Even if he is bugging places. Your trying to cut down on the leaks and the people who are more then willing to give out info that you would rather not want out there.

Yes, and this organization under Peterson leaked stuff like a seive. I also find it interesting how the newspapers are going to portray Pioli this way, why, because they are not getting their stories before anyone else.

kcchiefsfan18
01-15-2012, 02:01 PM
I actually used to work at arrowhead in the maintenance dept. I worked under a lot of the people in this article and saw/spoke with them daily.

This article makes the paranoia seem worse than it was IMO. I think that it was just a case of new boss and new style. People used to tell me tha vermeil/Peterson was the best time to work for the chiefs, pioli seems so concerned with the smaller stuff than they were.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 02:21 PM
Pioli will be exposed again this year due to the talent he inherited yet failed to build off of

Yeah because this team was so great when Pioli took over. I mean 2 wins who eles can say they got 2 wins. :sign0023:

josh1971
01-15-2012, 02:22 PM
Pioli will be exposed again this year due to the talent he inherited yet failed to build off of

Exposed again... like being in the hunt for the AFC west title and playoffs? Like 2010 and 2011?

Yeah, total joke.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 02:25 PM
I actually used to work at arrowhead in the maintenance dept. I worked under a lot of the people in this article and saw/spoke with them daily.

This article makes the paranoia seem worse than it was IMO. I think that it was just a case of new boss and new style. People used to tell me tha vermeil/Peterson was the best time to work for the chiefs, pioli seems so concerned with the smaller stuff than they were.

I think you are spot on. People who worked under Carl got use to how things worked. When Pioli came in and changed things they didn't like it. It's human nature. Change is not something that we like alot of when we are so use to things being a certain way.

As for Haley I have to say the more I here from him since he's been fired the more I am glad that we moved on. I liked the guy when he was here. I thought he should be fired but I liked him. But seeing now I think he's more about making excuses of why things didn't work. Things just simply didn't work out for him. He's not a bad coach and things were not all his fault but I think he's trying to make it sound like it's more managements fault why things didn't work out then what it really is.

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2012, 02:26 PM
Exposed again... like being in the hunt for the AFC west title and playoffs? Like 2010 and 2011?

Yeah, total joke.

2010 we were afc west champs, raiders and.broncos played the same crappy schedule, with the exception of two games san diego plaued the same ctappy schedule. Yeah pioli has been exposed for being a winner.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 02:29 PM
2010 we were afc west champs, raiders and.broncos played the same crappy schedule, with the exception of two games san diego plaued the same ctappy schedule. Yeah pioli has been exposed for being a winner.

And that ended up being a wash. We played one team that ended up better then a team they played and they played one team that ended up better then what we played. They lost twice to the NFC west we didn't we won. Say they beat crappy teams all you want. But in the years before Pioli we were not beating anyone.

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2012, 02:46 PM
And that ended up being a wash. We played one team that ended up better then a team they played and they played one team that ended up better then what we played. They lost twice to the NFC west we didn't we won. Say they beat crappy teams all you want. But in the years before Pioli we were not beating anyone.

Word.

#58ChiefsFan
01-15-2012, 02:47 PM
This is the make or break year for Pioli. His preaching of accountability needs to be reinforced by having an excellent offseason by him. If he does the things he needs to and shows the leadership from the top these stories become a mute point. The staff can either buy in 100% or gtfo, we all knew he was a secretive prick before he came here. You think the pats fans and staff care if people hate Belichick? Winning cures all.

Chiefster
01-15-2012, 02:51 PM
Way too long so I didn't read it all. I understand that with the changing of the guard, so to speak, that changes will ensue, however, the candy wrapper for example is a bit "over the top" IMHO. I think a good administrator would have simply picked up the candy wrapper and then sent a simple memo to the janitorial department requesting more attention to the stairwells.

chief31
01-15-2012, 03:23 PM
Seems everybody loves a disciplinarian.....

Right up until he is fired by a disciplinarian.

And what a hero Clark Hunt will be when he tires of Pioli, hunh?

I remember when Todd Haley was causing strife within the team, being labelled as a jerk. How quick we were to stand up and applaud his firm hand.

But then he was fired, in part, for exactly that behavior, and now we have a new "white knight" laying down the law on an unruly subordinant, so he is the hero who we shall all defend.

And if he fires another HC next year, we will all be clammoring for the mighty hand to swipe him aside.

It seems pretty obvious that Pioli does have a problem managing his subordinates. Todd Haley was his own, hand-picked, guy, and he fired him because they couldn't work together.

He had better figure out his role here. Because firing HCs is what crappy football teams do. Pioli damn well better figure out how to deal with Romeo, or he will find himself looking for work himself, soon. And I don't want that.

I love that Crennel came right to the press after being announced as the new HC, and told everybody that he will be running his defense. Don't ask, Romeo. You are the HC. You TELL everybody how you are going to do it.

chief31
01-15-2012, 03:46 PM
Hopefully after this year pioli will be gone along with cassel



Teams don't become winners by steadily firing everybody and starting over. Those teams just get to draft the big names out of college each year, because they are drafting high.

Experience is how you win. Teamwork is how you win.

Firing?

That is not the way.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 03:56 PM
Look at our impact players. All but one were from the previous regime.

Flowers, Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, Carr, Jamaal charles, Derrick Johnson

Ummmm Berry, Moaki, Houston,Mccluster???????????? Forget some people did we?

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 04:04 PM
We have a GM who says to the media "I need to do better."

I for one like that our Gm knows that he has to be better. Has he been perfect no one here is saying that he has. He has made moves that just have not worked out. The same thing can be said about every NFL Gm ever. No gm in the history of football has been perfect. That's just the fact of the matter.


We have our "Team Leader" getting in fights with pioli's first round pick baldwin breaking his hand.
As for fights sorry to inform you of this but this happens with EVERY team. During training camps when your hitting each other day after day after day tempers flare. Just most the time guys don't get hurt. But lets not pretend that the Chiefs are the only team that happened to during camp.


As much as it hurts me to say this because I absolutely hated Carl Peterson, if it wasnt for King Carl's players this team wouldnt contend for anything. DJ, Bowe, Carr, Flowers, Jamaal Charles, Tamba Hali and with the exception of Berry, these are OUR IMPACT PLAYERS.

Your right Carls players are a big part of whats going on in KC. But what you refuse to admit is that guys like Mccluster,Justin Houston,Arenas,Breaston,Succop guys that were brought in By Pioli are also big parts of this football team. You can only point to mistakes you refuse to give credit where it's due outside of berry.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 04:10 PM
You are saying Moaeki, houston and mccluster are on the same level as Jamaal charles, Tamba hali, Brandon Flowers, Dwayne Bowe brandon carr and dj?

I think you need your head examined.

Did I say there were on the same level? They are still VERY YOUNG players and are still at the very start of there careers. Maybe you don't rember this but there was a time people thought that Hali was nothing without Jarrad Allen. It's amazing what can happen when you give players time to learn the NFL game. But what I was saying is there a good part of this team to.


Please tell me, has mccluster worked out at slot WR? No, and that is why we drafted him in the second round. Another fantastic move by Scott Pioli

That's where your wrong Mccluster was brought in to do a little in both the passing game and running game. He came close to accounting for 1,000 yards this year in his 2nd yard. At the end of the day if he can account for 1,000 yards does it really matter if he got them by running or being a WR?

KCCF
01-15-2012, 05:01 PM
Maybe its just me but mymanhorton seems like a huge tool. He's so fast to just jump ship after what? We finished 7-9 losing 3 probowlers, dealing with a reluctant douche of a head coach basically throwing games and a tough schedule. How is a bad season it just makes me look forward to next year with our players back and an aggressive (hopefully) Scott pioli. I'm excited about next year.

You want to fire everyone, bring in a new GM and then deal with him bringing in his guys for another 5 years? I guarantee if you give pioli 3 consecutive top 5 picks he could produce good players too. The only thing I liked about Carl is he didn't allow LJ to get the rushing record.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 05:28 PM
HE HIRED THE "Douche of a head coach"

What player moves has he brought in that have been "impact" besides berry that would make you want to keep him?

Tyson Jackson? Mccluster? Thomas Jones? Baldwin? Releasing gaither, waters, shuan smith?

What?!

That coach won a AFC west title.

Mccluster weather you like him or not HAS. Accounting for over 800 yards thats an Impact. Breaston HAS. He was a darn good number 2 option. Jackson has made a impact. Has he been a stat filler no But that's not to say he hasn't been an impact. Justin Houston Made about as big of an Impact as you can really expect most rookies to 5.5 sacks for a team that has struggled to get any pressure on the QB is an Impact. Allen Bailey also towards the end of the year was getting pressure on the QB.

I will use your arguement against you what impact did Gaither make? Sure he played well with the bolts that doesn't mean he fit for us. Football is that simple. And I love the fact that now Cutting Shaun Smith is such a horrible move. I seem to recall people complaining about him being signed. I recall the term a Cleveland Reject. Waters listening to him it seems he wanted to move on. So that's not all on Pioli either.

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2012, 05:29 PM
Hopefully after this year pioli will be gone along with cassel

U really are like a child what can i say to get a response. Taking a team that was 2 and 14 to division champs in 2 yrs. Do ur homework and tell what gm has done. Fine old regime players.....same players that were 2 and 14. He brimgs a culture that we arent used to. But 2 out of his 3 yrs we are contenders for the wedt, the cups half full not empty.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 05:30 PM
Maybe its just me but mymanhorton seems like a huge tool. He's so fast to just jump ship after what? We finished 7-9 losing 3 probowlers, dealing with a reluctant douche of a head coach basically throwing games and a tough schedule. How is a bad season it just makes me look forward to next year with our players back and an aggressive (hopefully) Scott pioli. I'm excited about next year.

You want to fire everyone, bring in a new GM and then deal with him bringing in his guys for another 5 years? I guarantee if you give pioli 3 consecutive top 5 picks he could produce good players too. The only thing I liked about Carl is he didn't allow LJ to get the rushing record.

People like him would have cut Peyton Manning after his rookie year. Would have fire Bill Beilcheck after his first season with the Pats. They want it all now. Don't think that building a team is a growing process. You don't just go from 2-14 to 19-0 superbowl champs by flipping a switch.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 05:37 PM
Yes you did, you said they were "Impact players." Did you not? Hali didnt perform well in 4/3

Mccluster was brought in to be our slot WR.

Why would we draft another speed RB when we have charles? He was meant to be our slot WR. Mccluster even said himself that he was being told his success in the NFL will depend on the slot position


And does it matter how he gets his yards as long as he gets the yards. Do Yards for a wr account diffrently then RB? He got over 800 yards this year in his 2nd year. Going 25% of the games with Tyler Palko at qb. That's not bad at all. Not every player is brought in to put up monster numbers. There brought in to be a good role player like Mccluster has been.

KCCF
01-15-2012, 05:39 PM
Baldwin's a rookie. I didn't expect a whole lot but I feel he obviously has some growing to do. But again he's a rookie.

Tyson Jackson is one of the best at what he's supposed to do. I've seen someone post his and Dorsey's stats and they are the top of it (don't feel like going back and finding it).

Mccluster had almost 1000 all purpose yards and Thomas Jones is on the end of his career and still almost had 1000 yards last year.

Gaithers cost us a game (not sure that warrants a release though) waters was unhappy and Smith. Yeah I don't know about that.

There's always gonna be positives and negatives on a team. No GM has been 100% correct on all his moves. What about Jared Allen? Tony(could put in the same category as waters)?

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 05:52 PM
Tyson Jackson is one of the best at what he's supposed to do. I've seen someone post his and Dorsey's stats and they are the top of it (don't feel like going back and finding it
Our crappy 3-4 Defensive Ends - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19513)

There it is

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2012, 06:26 PM
Yes you did, you said they were "Impact players." Did you not? Hali didnt perform well in 4/3

Mccluster was brought in to be our slot WR.

Why would we draft another speed RB when we have charles? He was meant to be our slot WR. Mccluster even said himself that he was being told his success in the NFL will depend on the slot position

So sorry he was playing opposite a certain jared allan....u sir are just a sh** starter.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2012, 06:48 PM
You are saying Moaeki, houston and mccluster are on the same level as Jamaal charles, Tamba hali, Brandon Flowers, Dwayne Bowe brandon carr and dj?

I think you need your head examined.

Please tell me, has mccluster worked out at slot WR? No, and that is why we drafted him in the second round. Another fantastic move by Scott Pioli

They ARE impact players

Moaeki Big red zone target. He made a number of red zone catches in 2010 losing him was a big reason the Chiefs struggled so much in the redzone in 2011 I would call that a Impact.

Mccluster Accounted for over 800 yards. No matter how he did it That's a Impact. He was a big part of the offense the times that that offense moved the ball no matter what he was "drafted for" results are what matter. Tom Brady was drafted to be Drew Bledsoes backup. So his results don't count?

Justin Houston 5.5 sacks is giving teams a threat of a pass rush so they can't just focus on Hali. If that keeps up that will help Hali get even more heat on Qbs. I call that an Impact.

Others that have made some impact
Arenas Has made some plays in coverage and was 2nd in returns in the NFL. Creating some field postion I would say that's an impact.

Succop Do I really need to go into that?

Kendrick Lewis. Made a number of plays in give him Berry and the safety spot is looking real good. I would say that's an impact when you look at what our safetys have been.

#58ChiefsFan
01-15-2012, 07:25 PM
Maybe its just me but mymanhorton seems like a huge tool. He's so fast to just jump ship after what? We finished 7-9 losing 3 probowlers, dealing with a reluctant douche of a head coach basically throwing games and a tough schedule. How is a bad season it just makes me look forward to next year with our players back and an aggressive (hopefully) Scott pioli. I'm excited about next year.

You want to fire everyone, bring in a new GM and then deal with him bringing in his guys for another 5 years? I guarantee if you give pioli 3 consecutive top 5 picks he could produce good players too. The only thing I liked about Carl is he didn't allow LJ to get the rushing record.

Our "joke" of a GM Pioli cut LJ in 09 during his first year at the helm. Remember all the twitter bs with Haley.

I agree with the rest of your post.

Hayvern
01-16-2012, 12:31 AM
This is the make or break year for Pioli. His preaching of accountability needs to be reinforced by having an excellent offseason by him. If he does the things he needs to and shows the leadership from the top these stories become a mute point. The staff can either buy in 100% or gtfo, we all knew he was a secretive prick before he came here. You think the pats fans and staff care if people hate Belichick? Winning cures all.

Hardly, GMs are much more stable than head coaches. Pioli will not be on the chopping block for at least 5 more losing seasons.

Hayvern
01-16-2012, 12:35 AM
We have a GM who says to the media "I need to do better."

We have our "Team Leader" getting in fights with pioli's first round pick baldwin breaking his hand.

As much as it hurts me to say this because I absolutely hated Carl Peterson, if it wasnt for King Carl's players this team wouldnt contend for anything. DJ, Bowe, Carr, Flowers, Jamaal Charles, Tamba Hali and with the exception of Berry, these are OUR IMPACT PLAYERS.

Dude, are you this dumb for real or do you have to practice?

Seriously, what is the difference between all those players you mentioned and those who Pioli and Haley picked? Oh yeah, experience. Hmmm well nevermind that, what the hell can anyone learn in three or four years anyway, better just to dump everyone in management and let the damn players coach themselves.

Go back under your rock!

#58ChiefsFan
01-16-2012, 05:45 AM
Hardly, GMs are much more stable than head coaches. Pioli will not be on the chopping block for at least 5 more losing seasons.

I was referring to his perception as a leader, not the amount of time on his contract.

kcvet
01-16-2012, 10:52 AM
the story is pretty much life in the Ivory towers. I saw this in the corp I worked for.

Ryfo18
01-16-2012, 10:55 AM
I can't believe former employees would be bitter towards their ex-employer.

Even more shocking that a boss would demand transparency and accountability.

Let's make everyone (but the fans) happy and go back to the 2-14 days.

Canada
01-16-2012, 05:06 PM
I like that our rookies didnt make an impact after all the preseason work, OTAs etc. they should have been much better...pioli is a moron...what?? they had no preseason to prep for this year?? Blame Pioli!! Dumbas$!!

kcchiefsfan18
01-16-2012, 06:30 PM
Nick Wright had a good point today. The phone tapping cannot be proven, so no real sense in debating that.

I do however think that an interesting debate is whether some of the things mentioned in the article (gum wrapper, coffee budget, radio stations, paths into/out of building) are actually things that a general manager needs to be dealing with.

It just seems like running a football team would be such a hard and time consuming job. Hours spent by Pioli on trivial things are wasting the talent he has. An assistant, manager, maintenance sup or stadium ops guy should be handling things like that with possibly a little direction from Pioli, and Pioli's time should be spent better helping the team get more wins.

#58ChiefsFan
01-16-2012, 07:41 PM
None of those things take much time. If you use a stairwell everyday and can look at a wrapper as you pass it anyway, looking up from the practice squad to see the shades open or noticing traffic patterns are not something a reasonably well educated person would spend hours deliberating.

okikcfan
01-16-2012, 11:31 PM
Any major company has camera's and access to your emails and phone records, welcome to the real world. I have been dealing with this for years. Nothing new. Phone taping on his cell, kinda hard to do but yes it can be done. He had a meltdown, plain and simple....

josh1971
01-17-2012, 03:02 AM
Time out. Why are FANS concerning themselves so much with what the team's administration is doing at work? I'm not planning to work there, so I guess I don't much care what kind of boss Pioli is.

dbolan
01-17-2012, 08:10 AM
Sounds like Pioli is trying to change the culture of the Chiefs and weed out the lifers that feel a sense of entitlement. I see no problem with doing either of those things.


I agree...but if you are tapping phones and things of that sort, that is over the top.

Bike
01-17-2012, 09:54 AM
I think this story is somewhat overblown. After all, Crennel knows Piolis habits by now. At his age, I doubt Crennel would have accepted the HC position if things were really that bad.

Canada
01-17-2012, 10:52 AM
You're right, given Rookies shortened preaseason and OTA's Cam Newton has really sucked this year hasnt he? I mean gosh, the rookies had no chance this year!Oh, so if he had an offseason and OTAs he would not have been any better? Has he peaked now?? Best football hes ever gonna play?? Pull your head outta your as$

Canada
01-17-2012, 10:54 AM
Time out. Why are FANS concerning themselves so much with what the team's administration is doing at work? I'm not planning to work there, so I guess I don't much care what kind of boss Pioli is.Some people (myman Horton and Hayden) believe everything they read!! :koolaid:

kcchiefsfan18
01-17-2012, 11:20 AM
I think this story is somewhat overblown. After all, Crennel knows Piolis habits by now. At his age, I doubt Crennel would have accepted the HC position if things were really that bad.

I agree w/ this.

OPLookn
01-17-2012, 11:22 AM
Way too long so I didn't read it all. I understand that with the changing of the guard, so to speak, that changes will ensue, however, the candy wrapper for example is a bit "over the top" IMHO. I think a good administrator would have simply picked up the candy wrapper and then sent a simple memo to the janitorial department requesting more attention to the stairwells.

When I was in high school I worked for a guy that would do something exactly like this. He caught me walking past a piece of trash one day and stopped me and asked me why I walked past it. I responded that I was swamped and didn't have time to pick up every piece of trash on the floor that I see. His response which I'll never forget to the day I'll die was...if it was a twenty dollar bill would you have picked it up? Heck yeah I would...oh...I see what you did there... lol

The only thing that I really truely disagree with if it's true is this:
"Stephanie Melton, who worked 11 years on the team’s operations staff, recalled Pioli’s reaction after she and a coworker, after working past midnight on a weekend, had parked a courier van in the unmarked space usually occupied by Pioli’s car. The women had forgotten to move it, and Pioli was livid the next morning. Melton said she was made to feel for several days that she’d be fired."

This is a prime example of an employee going above and beyond the call of duty. If Pioli had to walk an extra 20 feet then too bad! He needs to recognize employees going above and beyond the call of duty and applaud it, not ride them for parking in "his" unmarked spot. What is this...high school?

Hayvern
01-17-2012, 12:34 PM
You forget the 2009 draft and FA moves buddy.

Tyson Jackson
Mike Vrabel (off team)
Matt Cassel (Shiiiiitz himself against awful teams over the last THREE SEASONS, you want to have a stat war we can)
Alex Magee Third Round Pick Off team

Thomas Jones 3.7 ypc in 10 and 3.1 YPC in 11 likely not to be resigned.
In 2009 we hired Haley Fired Haley

3 full seasons to evaluate the 2009 draft. 11 aint looking to bright either and it took a third rounder to even make that a "solid draft"

There ya go

So let's get into this then:


Tyson Jackson - I think Tyson is going to be just fine, he is far from a bust, though he might not be playing up to the level we would want from a first round pick. Also, please understand that most of last year he was injured, so this is really only his second season, I say let's give him one more year to see how he does, but also understand, he is NOT going to be the sack master that all of you seem to want him to be, that is NOT his job. His job is to fill the holes and stop the rush, something this team did fairly well this year, yet, there is room for improvement.

Mike Vrabel (off team) - You want to call Vrabel a mistake? Really? Vrabel came in here to lend leadership on the defensive side of the ball to a very very young defense with no experience. He came in as a captain and actually played pretty well in the couple of years he was here. You guys crack me up, if a guy is not putting up 100 tackles or sacking the QB 30 times a year, or is getting 20 interceptions, the guy sucks. Laughable, Vrabel came in here to teach other players how to play, and he did that in spades. Look at our linebackers and defense now, it was the only shining spot this year.

Matt Cassel (Shiiiiitz himself against awful teams over the last THREE SEASONS, you want to have a stat war we can) - I believed in Cassel, there is no one else that I could have thought of that was available in 2009 that could have done better on this team than he did those first two years. I was hoping he was the future, but it does not look like he is. I do not call this a mistake though, I call this a calculated move on the part of Pioli.

Alex Magee Third Round Pick Off team - WOW, OK, so you found one, a third round pick that didn't pan out... I sure you are proud that you got this one right.

Thomas Jones 3.7 ypc in 10 and 3.1 YPC in 11 likely not to be resigned. - See Vrabel above, in his first season here, he did a great job, but more importantly he brought a respectability and a work ethic to this team that we needed at a very opportune time. No one can deny that his leadership and insight has certainly had an influence on this team and that is what he was brought here to do. Has he fallen off, yes, but I think that was expected.

In 2009 we hired Haley Fired Haley - Hindisite is 20/20. Had we known then what we know now, Haley might not have been hired. I thought the hiring was a mistake, but I wanted to give him a chance. Maybe Pioli made a mistake here again, maybe not.

:meow:

nicfre2011
01-17-2012, 02:21 PM
Maybe Scott Pioli has OCD.

matthewschiefs
01-17-2012, 02:52 PM
Oh, so if he had an offseason and OTAs he would not have been any better? Has he peaked now?? Best football hes ever gonna play?? Pull your head outta your as$

Oh come on the rookie year is proven to be the best time to judge guys. I mean if the Colts had only watched Peyton Mannings rookie year they would have clearly seen the bust that he was. If the niners were not so stupid to get Steve Young after his time in Tampa they would have saved themselfs clearly. And The Cowboys wouldn't have been so awful if they had gotten rid of that bust Troy Aikman. And when A guy doesn't even play his rookie year come on the packers should have known that Rodgers was going to be a huge bust after that. Don't you no football at all? Well maybe you would if it weren't for all that beer. :D

Hayvern
01-17-2012, 03:00 PM
Oh come on the rookie year is proven to be the best time to judge guys. I mean if the Colts had only watched Peyton Mannings rookie year they would have clearly seen the bust that he was. If the niners were not so stupid to get Steve Young after his time in Tampa they would have saved themselfs clearly. And The Cowboys wouldn't have been so awful if they had gotten rid of that bust Troy Aikman. And when A guy doesn't even play his rookie year come on the packers should have known that Rodgers was going to be a huge bust after that. Don't you no football at all? Well maybe you would if it weren't for all that beer. :D

One thing I see, old My Man Orton is not complaining about Derrick Johnson is he? How long did it take that guy to get good? I remember a lot of guys hammering on him a few years ago, I bet if I searched through old posts I could find some posts from people who said we should dump him and draft a new player.

He really stunk it up the first four years here though.

Ryfo18
01-17-2012, 03:05 PM
One thing I see, old My Man Orton is not complaining about Derrick Johnson is he? How long did it take that guy to get good? I remember a lot of guys hammering on him a few years ago, I bet if I searched through old posts I could find some posts from people who said we should dump him and draft a new player.

He really stunk it up the first four years here though.

A very solid point.

matthewschiefs
01-17-2012, 03:30 PM
One thing I see, old My Man Orton is not complaining about Derrick Johnson is he? How long did it take that guy to get good? I remember a lot of guys hammering on him a few years ago, I bet if I searched through old posts I could find some posts from people who said we should dump him and draft a new player.

He really stunk it up the first four years here though.

Very true. Think the same thing can be said About Hali. I recall some fans saying that after Allen was traded that he was nothing without Allen. How did that work out.

Canada
01-17-2012, 05:01 PM
Oh come on the rookie year is proven to be the best time to judge guys. I mean if the Colts had only watched Peyton Mannings rookie year they would have clearly seen the bust that he was. If the niners were not so stupid to get Steve Young after his time in Tampa they would have saved themselfs clearly. And The Cowboys wouldn't have been so awful if they had gotten rid of that bust Troy Aikman. And when A guy doesn't even play his rookie year come on the packers should have known that Rodgers was going to be a huge bust after that. Don't you no football at all? Well maybe you would if it weren't for all that beer. :DHEY!! Say what you want about me...but dont bring my beer into this!! :bananen_smilies046:

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 08:52 PM
I have not read through this entire thread of discussion, nor will I. I have met and conversed with Scott Pioli one on one and formed my own individual wise opinion of the man as such. I don't form an opinion of any person based upon media hype, spin, twisted quotes, hearsay, speculation, etc..

Additionally, I've read the petitions filed in court by the attorney's for those few employee's who were fired, of whom filed a suit against the Chiefs. They're available for any one to read as a matter of public record. I read them so I could form a non bias opinion of my own, again, not based upon a media story, of which has self interest & benefit. It's all a bunch of crapola as far as I'm concerned. There is no substantial evidence, it's all he said, she said, hearsay, no factual or documented evidence. They're angry they lost their comfy jobs they took for granted for many years under the Peterson clickish regime. IMHO...the plaintiffs/former employee's are trying to capitalize on the situation & gain financially from the suit.

As far as Pioli...I have much respect and admiration for the man, justly & wisely so. I spent quite a bit of time conversing with him. He sought me out & approached me to initiate conversation...I didn't approach him. That in itself showed me he is a man of great inner character, for him to come to me personally to show me genuine sincere respect, appreciation, and gratitude. I'm no one special, but he sure as hell made me feel as if I was.

The man was not egotistical, nor arrogant, rather very humble in his approach and conversation with me. I believed in him then, and believe more in him now.

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 09:00 PM
Here is a copy/paste of my response to reading the article I posted at FB in a similar recent discussion:

Three Cheers for Pioli!! The franchise overhaul was long over due! It's about time they brought someone in as a GM who holds every single person involved with the Chiefs franchise accountable, and expects the best! From the janitor to the customer relations staff to himself!

As many who know Pioli have said, "no one is harder on Scott Pioli than he is on himself!" A bad situation would be if he expected from others what he doesn't from himself. It would be hypocritical of him as a leader also, if he expected accountability from the coaches & players but not those behind the scenes. Winning begins by creating a winning team from the bottom up...winning off the field and on the field go hand in hand, can't have one without the other.

I see it somewhat in theory as raising a child to become a winner in life and/or a productive member of society when they reach adulthood. Teaching self discipline, inner character strength, & accountability begins in the heart of the home! We humans are often led by example...we give as much or as little effort that is expected from those setting the examples in our lives, leading us. :)

As well, overhaul changes are common anytime there's a change of leadership at the top, same thing happened when Peterson was brought in. Same thing happens in all business when management or ownership changes. The employee's let go always become angry & rebel, understandably.

Besides, as usual, media puts spin & hype on the story to attract attention & draw readers interest. Creating controversial headlines draw attention increasing ratings/profit. Only some of the employees were let go, many were retained after their job duties and history of performance were evaluated. The entire story is based upon he said she said, hearsay, no substantial evidence of any guilt or wrong doing.

The gum wrapper incident is being taken out of context...it was used as a lesson of example with what was not acceptable...unaccountability, regardless of it being a little detail or big one. When little things are let go & ignored bad habits develop that lead to bigger problems. Compare in theory to gaining weight...if you ignore gaining a pound or two, then three...thinking it's only a couple pounds that won't make a difference...before you know it you've gained 50!

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 09:01 PM
Anything is possible, but I don't see this story as turning into a major issue for the Chiefs, nor Pioli. I'm not an employee of the Chiefs franchise, and can only voice an opinion based upon my personal experiences in life.

I like Scott Pioli, based upon personal experiences. I believe in what he's doing. I've personally witnessed & experienced much improvement within the franchise, as a season ticket holder related to customer relations & fan appreciation...since Pioli has taken over. I also see improvement with the cleanliness of Arrowhead when I attend games, as a fan I appreciate clean stairwells and bathrooms! There was a time the stadium wasn't maintained or kept real clean, Arrowhead Stadium was being let go to some extent.

Run down environments tend to inspire lack of respect for surroundings by employee's & customers. IE: graffiti on bathroom walls initiates more. I also can see how much improved the overall attitude is with employee's at the stadium.

Lastly...I believe in Pioli as well when it comes to winning on the field. I believe he wants to win as much as any fan does, and base that upon personal experience also. He's going about it the way he feels is best based upon his inside knowledge & connections, his education, and decades of experience working in the NFL. He began his NFL career during his college era...driving to the Jets training camp 90 miles daily to learn. He moved up to being a gopher for coaches & players, including chauffering players around.

The man wasn't handed his career on a silver platter...he's paid his dues working hard making many sacrifices along the way...to be the best he can be now as a GM. He's spent years dedicating himself, and has earned his GM title and this opportunity. In my humble opinion, that is. :)

matthewschiefs
01-17-2012, 09:42 PM
I agree with your opinion alot on Pioli. I have never met the man all I can base my opinion on is by watching the few press things he does on Kcchiefs.com. But I have never gotten an arrogant vibe from him. I think alot of that comes from the media who still love CP for the fact that they were able to find out just about every other word ever spoken at arrowhead. Now those media guys have to work to find out what very little info they are able to find. So of course there going to have bad opinions on him. I got more the full of himself vibe from Peterson then I ever had Pioli but I will admit that I don't see or hear as much as those who live in KC.

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2012, 09:58 PM
I agree with your opinion alot on Pioli. I have never met the man all I can base my opinion on is by watching the few press things he does on Kcchiefs.com. But I have never gotten an arrogant vibe from him. I think alot of that comes from the media who still love CP for the fact that they were able to find out just about every other word ever spoken at arrowhead. Now those media guys have to work to find out what very little info they are able to find. So of course there going to have bad opinions on him. I got more the full of himself vibe from Peterson then I ever had Pioli but I will admit that I don't see or hear as much as those who live in KC.

A huge write up in sports illustrated last yr. Talked about his high school team not being the most athletic but they were a team and very succrssful despite being undersized ge worked in cleveland for peanuts and slept on a cot. Dude has done what ur supposed to start at the bottom and work your way up i hope his culnination is a superbowl here in kc. He is light years ahead of where carl was taking us. I cant wait till next season to shut all these negative folk up.

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:08 PM
I agree with your opinion alot on Pioli. I have never met the man all I can base my opinion on is by watching the few press things he does on Kcchiefs.com. But I have never gotten an arrogant vibe from him. I think alot of that comes from the media who still love CP for the fact that they were able to find out just about every other word ever spoken at arrowhead. Now those media guys have to work to find out what very little info they are able to find. So of course there going to have bad opinions on him. I got more the full of himself vibe from Peterson then I ever had Pioli but I will admit that I don't see or hear as much as those who live in KC.

You hit the nail on the head. Some local media is not happy with Pioli for tightening up security leaks with media. Some of their leak sources were among those who lost jobs with the Chiefs. I have no doubt the media is being vengeful now with making mountains out of molehills related to Pioli. He's on the media's bad side, they're now power playing, bullying, using their power to manipulate a public fanbase that easily believes what it reads, or doesn't read thoroughly between the lines. They want to turn people against Pioli, get even for tightening up their sources.

I wish the majority of fans understood the evil ways of the corporate world, including media and the NFL...then they wouldn't buy into the bull$hit as easily as they do.

You're also right in your opinion related to Peterson. I also had the opportunity to meet him when he was the GM in KC. Although he was polite, the man had an arrogance about him of which was not likeable at all. He was superior acting in his attitude, as if he was better than those around him, so to speak. Pioli isn't like that at all based upon my experience with him. In fact, he's very down to Earth, humble in personality, and he has a great sense of humor. I was very comfortable & at ease around him, and we joked some while talking...it was as if he was an old friend. Hell, he even joked when I referred to him at first as "Mr. Pioli". He laughed and said, "Mr. Pioli? Mr. Pioli is what people call my dad, I'm just Scott, call me Scott."...so I did and still do, lol.

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:11 PM
Additional thought...Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan were at the same special event I was invited to attend with Scott Pioli, as well as other 'execs'. They each attended in their prim & proper business suits with ties. Scott Pioli showed up in a polo knit shirt, shorts, tennis shoes and socks, hahahaha.

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:15 PM
I guess I should clarify my last comment...the reason he showed up so casual is prior to his attending the event he had been playing golf in a local tournament for charity. I would imagine he didn't have time to change clothes, so rather than keep everyone waiting he attended in casual attire, dressed nicely but comfortably just as many there did who weren't among the execs.

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:18 PM
Don't know if I mentioned it above...but the monitoring equipment in place at Arrowhead has been there for many years. It was originally installed by Peterson, not Pioli. It's used to monitor employee's to prevent employee theft, as well as security leaks to media or competiting franchises, and to be sure employee's remain productive while at work. As yourself this...how many people do you know that spend time playing games on Facebook while at their job place? LOL

It's very common for businesses & corporations to monitor employee activity & conversations...Walmart does it, so does Lowes, Home Depot, McDonalds, and many others.

matthewschiefs
01-17-2012, 10:26 PM
Don't know if I mentioned it above...but the monitoring equipment in place at Arrowhead has been there for many years. It was originally installed by Peterson, not Pioli. It's used to monitor employee's to prevent employee theft, as well as security leaks to media or competiting franchises, and to be sure employee's remain productive while at work. As yourself this...how many people do you know that spend time playing games on Facebook while at their job place? LOL

It's very common for businesses & corporations to monitor employee activity & conversations...Walmart does it, so does Lowes, Home Depot, McDonalds, and many others.


Gamestop does for sure I should no I saw the tapes use to get yelled at all the time for playing a bit to much and working a bit to little lol

Connie Jo
01-17-2012, 10:35 PM
Gamestop does for sure I should no I saw the tapes use to get yelled at all the time for playing a bit to much and working a bit to little lol

Exactly!! The media is making it out to be something it isn't, and so are the disgruntled employee's. So many became complacent in their jobs under Peterson, just as Peterson himself became complacent. It was and is necessary for the complacency to stop, and to stop employee's from taking the franchise & their jobs for granted.

Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli mean business when they say this franchise will become one of excellence both on and off the field. It was long overdue, and as a fan I'm glad it's finally taking place.

dbolan
01-18-2012, 08:02 AM
One thing I see, old My Man Orton is not complaining about Derrick Johnson is he? How long did it take that guy to get good? I remember a lot of guys hammering on him a few years ago, I bet if I searched through old posts I could find some posts from people who said we should dump him and draft a new player.

He really stunk it up the first four years here though.

You got that right and I would love to see that list just to reveal some bandwagoners!

Amazing how Cassell is OUT and HALEY is out after winning the AFC West last year.

What have you done for me lately??? haha

nigeriannightmare
01-18-2012, 08:25 AM
You got that right and I would love to see that list just to reveal some bandwagoners!

Amazing how Cassell is OUT and HALEY is out after winning the AFC West last year.

What have you done for me lately??? haha

Cassel is far from OUT, thats just something you want. The prior post was about DJ. And DJ was in haleys dog house his first year hear pretty sure dj didnt even start that season.

dbolan
01-18-2012, 12:05 PM
Cassel is far from OUT, thats just something you want. The prior post was about DJ. And DJ was in haleys dog house his first year hear pretty sure dj didnt even start that season.

What I want, eh? Seems to be the lead in that poll question as well.

And I am aware that the post was about DJ. First year or not, he was still on the "not wanted" list by several.

chief31
01-18-2012, 12:34 PM
You got that right and I would love to see that list just to reveal some bandwagoners!

Amazing how Cassell is OUT and HALEY is out after winning the AFC West last year.

What have you done for me lately??? haha

It is that "what have you done for me lately" mentality that leads to such horrible judgements.

A great player, having a rough year, is suddnly mis-labelled as a bad player.

And, as iff that knee-jerk type of reaction isn't innacurate enough, then you add in the ability of the masses to overlook circumstances.

Matt Cassel was a star player in the Jamaal Charles offense last year, but, because he struggled in the Jamaal Charles offense, with no Jamaal Charles, he is labelled as a bad player.

When, if one looks at his career, he has had two very good seasons, and one bad season, with another half of a bad season.

And the one whole bad season was when he was thrown onto a 2-14 team, with a whole new.... everything... on offense. Then the Jammal Charles, sans Jamaal Charles, this year.

Alex Smith, anyone?

Different circumstances have made him look like a different player. But he is not. He is still the same guy.

nigeriannightmare
01-18-2012, 12:38 PM
What I want, eh? Seems to be the lead in that poll question as well.

And I am aware that the post was about DJ. First year or not, he was still on the "not wanted" list by several.

I forgot scott pioli looks at the opinion poll on chiefs crowd. Why woul ld any qb want to come to kc if after a pro bowl year is cast aside as terrible. If were orton i wouldnt want to play here. The logic is astounding.

And he was on the not wanted list by the same people that dont want tyson jackson or matt cassel. They r called bandwagon fans. And why is mimicking a successful business model called bandwagon. Its called good business, the patriots are good at football. Its only logical to want to "bandwagon" the patriot way.

chief31
01-18-2012, 12:42 PM
I don't form an opinion of any person based upon media hype, spin, twisted quotes, hearsay, speculation, etc...

Oh, well, that sounds very fair, and even-minded of you Connie. :D


Oh, it gets worse! There is an article today posted at kcchiefs.com of which if you read between the lines substantiates the rumors around town that Haley intentionally defied Pioli leaving Palko in just to spite Pioli!

Rumor is Pioli wanted to fire Haley after the playoff loss to the Ravens January 2011, but he had a yr. left on his contract and Hunt wasn't in favor of firing Haley at the time. Pioli knew by that point there were personality issues within Haley, angry need to control all, having an issue with authority above him, etc.. Chan Gailey was fired because of conflicts with Haley, Charlie Weiss left as a result of Haley just short of the playoff game against the Ravens. Haley acted as the OC, and of course we lost badly...just as we did in 2009 with Haley thinking he was greater than most acting as HC & OC.

Wait....

What were you saying again?

Hayvern
01-18-2012, 12:47 PM
You got that right and I would love to see that list just to reveal some bandwagoners!

Amazing how Cassell is OUT and HALEY is out after winning the AFC West last year.

What have you done for me lately??? haha

I make a bit of an exception for Cassel, I have been a huge supporter of his, but I have seen enough failures from him that I have to start to question whether he is the guy. Tebow took the Broncos to a playoff birth this year, but he is still not a very good quarterback.

Johnson, while he struggled for a few years, you could see that he had the skills, perhaps it was players around him, perhaps it was attitude, but whatever it was, he was always right there on the cupse of the greatness we are seeing now.

I like Cassel, I supported him for years and I know there are weaknesses on offense that has held him back, having said that, he has not done himself any favors there have been too many missed wide open receivers, too many under thrown and over thrown balls, too many instances of happyfeet for me to say this guy has what it takes to lead this team to a Superbowl.

Haley, well that is another matter, I never was sold on him as headcoach.

azchiefsfan
01-18-2012, 12:47 PM
This^! He led us to a conference championship and himself to the Pro Bowl and this year led a pathetic and beat up team to 4 straight wins-despite the best efforts of Haley. When every facet of our game was falling apart, he was consistent and didn't give a lot of turnovers. Was the passing game anemic this year? Absolutely, but not because of Cassel. It is so short-sighted to blame the one guy NOT making a lot of mistakes for an entire team that was making a ton of mistakes. I'll still take Cassel over 24 of the starting QB's in the league. Does he need more help than Brady or Payton? Yeah, but they are rare and I still don't think would've done better than Cassel with the stupid play calling and weakened running game and OL Cassel has to work with. I'm looking forward to Cassel coming back and leading us to the playoffs next year and maybe, just maybe, the Super Bowl next year.

Chiefster
01-18-2012, 12:48 PM
I have not read through this entire thread of discussion, nor will I. I have met and conversed with Scott Pioli one on one and formed my own individual wise opinion of the man as such. I don't form an opinion of any person based upon media hype, spin, twisted quotes, hearsay, speculation, etc..

Additionally, I've read the petitions filed in court by the attorney's for those few employee's who were fired, of whom filed a suit against the Chiefs. They're available for any one to read as a matter of public record. I read them so I could form a non bias opinion of my own, again, not based upon a media story, of which has self interest & benefit. It's all a bunch of crapola as far as I'm concerned. There is no substantial evidence, it's all he said, she said, hearsay, no factual or documented evidence. They're angry they lost their comfy jobs they took for granted for many years under the Peterson clickish regime. IMHO...the plaintiffs/former employee's are trying to capitalize on the situation & gain financially from the suit.

As far as Pioli...I have much respect and admiration for the man, justly & wisely so. I spent quite a bit of time conversing with him. He sought me out & approached me to initiate conversation...I didn't approach him. That in itself showed me he is a man of great inner character, for him to come to me personally to show me genuine sincere respect, appreciation, and gratitude. I'm no one special, but he sure as hell made me feel as if I was.

The man was not egotistical, nor arrogant, rather very humble in his approach and conversation with me. I believed in him then, and believe more in him now.


Here is a copy/paste of my response to reading the article I posted at FB in a similar recent discussion:

Three Cheers for Pioli!! The franchise overhaul was long over due! It's about time they brought someone in as a GM who holds every single person involved with the Chiefs franchise accountable, and expects the best! From the janitor to the customer relations staff to himself!

As many who know Pioli have said, "no one is harder on Scott Pioli than he is on himself!" A bad situation would be if he expected from others what he doesn't from himself. It would be hypocritical of him as a leader also, if he expected accountability from the coaches & players but not those behind the scenes. Winning begins by creating a winning team from the bottom up...winning off the field and on the field go hand in hand, can't have one without the other.

I see it somewhat in theory as raising a child to become a winner in life and/or a productive member of society when they reach adulthood. Teaching self discipline, inner character strength, & accountability begins in the heart of the home! We humans are often led by example...we give as much or as little effort that is expected from those setting the examples in our lives, leading us. :)

As well, overhaul changes are common anytime there's a change of leadership at the top, same thing happened when Peterson was brought in. Same thing happens in all business when management or ownership changes. The employee's let go always become angry & rebel, understandably.

Besides, as usual, media puts spin & hype on the story to attract attention & draw readers interest. Creating controversial headlines draw attention increasing ratings/profit. Only some of the employees were let go, many were retained after their job duties and history of performance were evaluated. The entire story is based upon he said she said, hearsay, no substantial evidence of any guilt or wrong doing.

The gum wrapper incident is being taken out of context...it was used as a lesson of example with what was not acceptable...unaccountability, regardless of it being a little detail or big one. When little things are let go & ignored bad habits develop that lead to bigger problems. Compare in theory to gaining weight...if you ignore gaining a pound or two, then three...thinking it's only a couple pounds that won't make a difference...before you know it you've gained 50!


Anything is possible, but I don't see this story as turning into a major issue for the Chiefs, nor Pioli. I'm not an employee of the Chiefs franchise, and can only voice an opinion based upon my personal experiences in life.

I like Scott Pioli, based upon personal experiences. I believe in what he's doing. I've personally witnessed & experienced much improvement within the franchise, as a season ticket holder related to customer relations & fan appreciation...since Pioli has taken over. I also see improvement with the cleanliness of Arrowhead when I attend games, as a fan I appreciate clean stairwells and bathrooms! There was a time the stadium wasn't maintained or kept real clean, Arrowhead Stadium was being let go to some extent.

Run down environments tend to inspire lack of respect for surroundings by employee's & customers. IE: graffiti on bathroom walls initiates more. I also can see how much improved the overall attitude is with employee's at the stadium.

Lastly...I believe in Pioli as well when it comes to winning on the field. I believe he wants to win as much as any fan does, and base that upon personal experience also. He's going about it the way he feels is best based upon his inside knowledge & connections, his education, and decades of experience working in the NFL. He began his NFL career during his college era...driving to the Jets training camp 90 miles daily to learn. He moved up to being a gopher for coaches & players, including chauffering players around.

The man wasn't handed his career on a silver platter...he's paid his dues working hard making many sacrifices along the way...to be the best he can be now as a GM. He's spent years dedicating himself, and has earned his GM title and this opportunity. In my humble opinion, that is. :)


You hit the nail on the head. Some local media is not happy with Pioli for tightening up security leaks with media. Some of their leak sources were among those who lost jobs with the Chiefs. I have no doubt the media is being vengeful now with making mountains out of molehills related to Pioli. He's on the media's bad side, they're now power playing, bullying, using their power to manipulate a public fanbase that easily believes what it reads, or doesn't read thoroughly between the lines. They want to turn people against Pioli, get even for tightening up their sources.

I wish the majority of fans understood the evil ways of the corporate world, including media and the NFL...then they wouldn't buy into the bull as easily as they do.

You're also right in your opinion related to Peterson. I also had the opportunity to meet him when he was the GM in KC. Although he was polite, the man had an arrogance about him of which was not likeable at all. He was superior acting in his attitude, as if he was better than those around him, so to speak. Pioli isn't like that at all based upon my experience with him. In fact, he's very down to Earth, humble in personality, and he has a great sense of humor. I was very comfortable & at ease around him, and we joked some while talking...it was as if he was an old friend. Hell, he even joked when I referred to him at first as "Mr. Pioli". He laughed and said, "Mr. Pioli? Mr. Pioli is what people call my dad, I'm just Scott, call me Scott."...so I did and still do, lol.


Additional thought...Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan were at the same special event I was invited to attend with Scott Pioli, as well as other 'execs'. They each attended in their prim & proper business suits with ties. Scott Pioli showed up in a polo knit shirt, shorts, tennis shoes and socks, hahahaha.


I guess I should clarify my last comment...the reason he showed up so casual is prior to his attending the event he had been playing golf in a local tournament for charity. I would imagine he didn't have time to change clothes, so rather than keep everyone waiting he attended in casual attire, dressed nicely but comfortably just as many there did who weren't among the execs.


Don't know if I mentioned it above...but the monitoring equipment in place at Arrowhead has been there for many years. It was originally installed by Peterson, not Pioli. It's used to monitor employee's to prevent employee theft, as well as security leaks to media or competiting franchises, and to be sure employee's remain productive while at work. As yourself this...how many people do you know that spend time playing games on Facebook while at their job place? LOL

It's very common for businesses & corporations to monitor employee activity & conversations...Walmart does it, so does Lowes, Home Depot, McDonalds, and many others.


Exactly!! The media is making it out to be something it isn't, and so are the disgruntled employee's. So many became complacent in their jobs under Peterson, just as Peterson himself became complacent. It was and is necessary for the complacency to stop, and to stop employee's from taking the franchise & their jobs for granted.

Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli mean business when they say this franchise will become one of excellence both on and off the field. It was long overdue, and as a fan I'm glad it's finally taking place.

Where you been young lady! :11: :smile

Now, if only we could get you to speak passionately and candidly about your first hand knowledge and experience with Scott. :bananen_smilies046: :lol:

I don't know how much the media has to do with the facts, or lack thereof, in the case but the media does tend to attempt to create the way it is rather than simply report the way it is IMHO. I think there tends to be very little in the way of truth in reporting now-a-days. As much as we, me included, liked to gripe and complain about "King Carl", a name given to him by the media, I believe that he did some very good things while at KC and helped to foster a winning atmosphere within his first ten years or so and, in the beginning, brought a fresh perspective and outlook. I think it is good to take initial reports with a grain of salt until all the facts in the matter have been brought to light.

dbolan
01-19-2012, 09:24 AM
I forgot scott pioli looks at the opinion poll on chiefs crowd. Why woul ld any qb want to come to kc if after a pro bowl year is cast aside as terrible. If were orton i wouldnt want to play here. The logic is astounding.

And he was on the not wanted list by the same people that dont want tyson jackson or matt cassel. They r called bandwagon fans. And why is mimicking a successful business model called bandwagon. Its called good business, the patriots are good at football. Its only logical to want to "bandwagon" the patriot way.

It's not about Pioli looking at the opinion polls..Why add the smart *ss twist to this. My point was and IS that from the poll, MOST want ORTON, not Cassell.

As far as why would a QB want to come back after a pro bowl year that is cast aside, or any QB for that matter? The same goes for the coach that was fired as well. You notice there was not a line for the HC position when Haley was fired.

In regards to the bandwagoning/business model aspect:

The Patriots are GOOD from top to bottom..Owner, GM, coaches, scouting, draft, FA signing, players etc. This will be the 4th season under the alledged similar business model and expectations have not been met by many. Haven't you heard? LOL!

nigeriannightmare
01-19-2012, 01:00 PM
It's not about Pioli looking at the opinion polls..Why add the smart *ss twist to this. My point was and IS that from the poll, MOST want ORTON, not Cassell.

As far as why would a QB want to come back after a pro bowl year that is cast aside, or any QB for that matter? The same goes for the coach that was fired as well. You notice there was not a line for the HC position when Haley was fired.

In regards to the bandwagoning/business model aspect:

The Patriots are GOOD from top to bottom..Owner, GM, coaches, scouting, draft, FA signing, players etc. This will be the 4th season under the alledged similar business model and expectations have not been met by many. Haven't you heard? LOL!

2 and 14 dude and in 2 yrs were afc west champs im not sure what else u expected. Give me one 2 and 14 team in the last decade that won their division in 2 yrs the foundation has been made man.

OPLookn
01-19-2012, 02:38 PM
2 and 14 dude and in 2 yrs were afc west champs im not sure what else u expected. Give me one 2 and 14 team in the last decade that won their division in 2 yrs the foundation has been made man.

I can't give you a 2-14 team but I can give you a 1-15 team that in one year turned around to win their division and even beat the NE Pats to win the division. The 2008 Miami Dolphins.

Sorry, couldn't resist but you asked the question...

nigeriannightmare
01-19-2012, 03:20 PM
I can't give you a 2-14 team but I can give you a 1-15 team that in one year turned around to win their division and even beat the NE Pats to win the division. The 2008 Miami Dolphins.

Sorry, couldn't resist but you asked the question...

So one team and thy werent within in one game ofbthe division as we were, if not for the palko starts we would have. We, i think, are closer than the dolphins.

nigeriannightmare
01-19-2012, 03:43 PM
They also have had a much tougher division than we have had

The afc east was not a strong division this year. One team above .500.

nigeriannightmare
01-19-2012, 03:45 PM
And wasnt bill parcells, scott olpiolis father in law, responsible for the personnel changes down there.

tornadospotter
01-19-2012, 08:42 PM
One thing I see, old My Man Orton is not complaining about Derrick Johnson is he? How long did it take that guy to get good? I remember a lot of guys hammering on him a few years ago, I bet if I searched through old posts I could find some posts from people who said we should dump him and draft a new player.

He really stunk it up the first four years here though.


Very true. Think the same thing can be said About Hali. I recall some fans saying that after Allen was traded that he was nothing without Allen. How did that work out.
I rember stating in threads of past, that each of these players had to have a make or break season to prove themselves or we move on. They did, and they are still Chiefs!

dbolan
01-20-2012, 09:05 AM
2 and 14 dude and in 2 yrs were afc west champs im not sure what else u expected. Give me one 2 and 14 team in the last decade that won their division in 2 yrs the foundation has been made man.

Consistency and first round win would be nice

OPLookn
01-20-2012, 10:52 AM
So one team and thy werent within in one game ofbthe division as we were, if not for the palko starts we would have. We, i think, are closer than the dolphins.

I'm not disagreeing with you. You asked a question that had an answer that had an answer other than no, there isn't a team.

It was an amazing turnaround for them but they didn't build off of it and they were a one year wonder. Overall I'm of the same opinion as you. I'd rather build for the future and be a contender each and every year than be a flash in the pan. Well, I'll get greedy and say I'd like to be in the Super Bowl every year. But not so greedy that I'll let someone else win once every ten years or so.

:lol:

Seek
01-20-2012, 12:57 PM
We have a GM who says to the media "I need to do better."

We have our "Team Leader" getting in fights with pioli's first round pick baldwin breaking his hand.

As much as it hurts me to say this because I absolutely hated Carl Peterson, if it wasnt for King Carl's players this team wouldnt contend for anything. DJ, Bowe, Carr, Flowers, Jamaal Charles, Tamba Hali and with the exception of Berry, these are OUR IMPACT PLAYERS.

I don't know about you, but I like Kendrick Lewis, and Justin Houston and Tony Moeaki, and Jon Asomoah, and Steve Breaston, and Havier Arenas, and Dexter McCluster and Ryan Succop.

Really my biggest complaint under Pioli would be Not fixing Barry Richardson and drafting Tyson Jackson.

But I know how closed minded people get when they just Love or Hate someone and choose to completely ingore everything else about that person.

OPLookn
01-20-2012, 01:23 PM
I don't know about you, but I like Kendrick Lewis, and Justin Houston and Tony Moeaki, and Jon Asomoah, and Steve Breaston, and Havier Arenas, and Dexter McCluster and Ryan Succop.

Really my biggest complaint under Pioli would be Not fixing Barry Richardson and drafting Tyson Jackson.

But I know how closed minded people get when they just Love or Hate someone and choose to completely ingore everything else about that person.

I know what you mean now lets get rid of Cassel, that guy's a loser.

Pioli has done a pretty darn good job in the short time he's been here. Has he been perfect no but no one is and certainly no GM has made all the perfect moves.

I think we'll see a lot of activity this year but probably not as much as much as we'd like or nearly as much as what's actually going on at Arrowhead and not released to the masses.

Connie Jo
01-26-2012, 11:07 PM
Oh, well, that sounds very fair, and even-minded of you Connie. :D



Wait....

What were you saying again?

There is a BIG difference in forming an opinion based upon media speculation, hype, spin...fan rumors, hearsay, etc....and hearing something DIRECTLY from Chiefs players themselves. :D

Connie Jo
01-26-2012, 11:34 PM
Where you been young lady! :11: :smile

Now, if only we could get you to speak passionately and candidly about your first hand knowledge and experience with Scott. :bananen_smilies046: :lol:

I don't know how much the media has to do with the facts, or lack thereof, in the case but the media does tend to attempt to create the way it is rather than simply report the way it is IMHO. I think there tends to be very little in the way of truth in reporting now-a-days. As much as we, me included, liked to gripe and complain about "King Carl", a name given to him by the media, I believe that he did some very good things while at KC and helped to foster a winning atmosphere within his first ten years or so and, in the beginning, brought a fresh perspective and outlook. I think it is good to take initial reports with a grain of salt until all the facts in the matter have been brought to light.

Well, not to bring the mood down, but I've been overwhelmed the last 2-3 months attempting to help friends through tragedy, illness, & other struggles. Many I talk to in private messages at Facebook offering comfort & support, which can be time consuming, but if i can help then I need to, regardless of time spent. I also keep in touch with many out of town family & friends via FB when I'm logged on there replying to messages.

I hoped & prayed 2012 would bring less tragedy & illness for those I care about, but it hasn't began as such. My dear friends son, who is like a son to me & I've known since he was a toddler, was recently diagnosed with Cancer...he's only 28. He lives within 5 miles of me here in KC, so I've visited him at the hospital, went with him to see DR's for tests, etc..

My young friend Dillon has been struggling again too in battling his terminal brain Cancer...they've stopped a new type of research Chemo again, it's not working.

My best Chiefs buddy, Kelly, lost his 24 yr. old son tragically in November. I drove to Wisconsin to attend the funeral Mass, offer what emotional support I could while there, & as well upon returning home by message & phone. He's gonna be a long time healing, understandably.

This coming Monday my daughter will deliver her 3rd child by C-section, another grandson! She's had some complications, so I've been there for her some too, including attending the last sonogram here in KC. :)

There's more related to family & friends, but, I'll end my 'where have you been' update with... I'm still renovating my home, so have been busy with various renovation projects.

WHEW!! I need a vacation!! :)

Connie Jo
01-26-2012, 11:55 PM
Where you been young lady! :11: :smile

Now, if only we could get you to speak passionately and candidly about your first hand knowledge and experience with Scott. :bananen_smilies046: :lol:

I don't know how much the media has to do with the facts, or lack thereof, in the case but the media does tend to attempt to create the way it is rather than simply report the way it is IMHO. I think there tends to be very little in the way of truth in reporting now-a-days. As much as we, me included, liked to gripe and complain about "King Carl", a name given to him by the media, I believe that he did some very good things while at KC and helped to foster a winning atmosphere within his first ten years or so and, in the beginning, brought a fresh perspective and outlook. I think it is good to take initial reports with a grain of salt until all the facts in the matter have been brought to light.

As far as Peterson, he was a good GM in the beginning, but a 20 yr. reign of power I think was too long, and he'd become complacent. I sensed he began to take it all for granted, including that Chiefs fans are known as some of the most loyal in the NFL, regardless of winning/losing. He was wrong. I began to lose faith in him during the late 90's...when he over-rode Marty's choice to start Gannon, and insisted Grbac be started in the 97 playoff game. From that point on it just went downhill...one bad decision after another it seemed, including letting players go I don't feel he should have.

I've seen so many positive changes under the new franchise regime, or team...of Clark Hunt & Pioli. I live in Kansas City now, attend most all of the Chiefs events and home games...it gives me a bit of an advantage with seeing and hearing things...some I'd rather not see or hear, hahaha. With being able to attend Chiefs related events & home games more than I have in past years...I'm fortunate to experience the positive changes many non local fans haven't.

Needless to say, yes, Pioli impressed me greatly, and that's really not easy to do, hahaha. Until he does something proven unjust & unworthy of my admiration & respect...he has both, and earned it, I didn't give either to him lightly. The man made a point to look for me specifically after an event, then approach to converse related to comments I'd made. We conversed quite a while, which gave me the opportunity to look into the mans eyes as he spoke, hear his tone, all the tools I needed to judge his sincerity. He's the real deal...he's genuinely committed & dedicated to his role as Chiefs GM. His #1 priority is bringing the Lombardi back to KC...he told me that himself, with passion in his tone of voice, intensity in his eyes...and I believe him.

I'm very loyal by nature, and as such will stand to defend those I feel deserve my loyalty. As I said, I will defend Pioli as the man I came to know personally. Who by the way, is not the monster Babb's article attempted to portray him as. The article had me very upset, especially being made aware of the reasons behind it...which are selfish by those involved. I'm not the only one who feels that way, many others do to who have had personal experiences with Pioli.

I feel badly for the man, believing he's the target of vendetta's and sabotage unjustly. I also feel bad for us Chiefs fans, because we're the ones who ultimately suffer the most damage when these types of scandals occur. We didn't do anything to hurt anyone, but we'll pay the price if this all doesn't stop soon. :(

Connie Jo
01-26-2012, 11:58 PM
Lastly Chiefster...

I do know how the media works, as I worked with all media sources during my career prior to retiring early...from National magazines, to TV interviews, to newspaper features. The KC Star did a feature story on me once upon a time, related to my career achievements. It was a praising article, not derogatory...but they still put their own hype & spin on it, misquoted me, to make it more appealing to readers. That's how it works...I know the game, been there, done that, many times. :)

nigeriannightmare
01-27-2012, 12:16 AM
As far as Peterson, he was a good GM in the beginning, but a 20 yr. reign of power I think was too long, and he'd become complacent. I sensed he began to take it all for granted, including that Chiefs fans are known as some of the most loyal in the NFL, regardless of winning/losing. He was wrong. I began to lose faith in him during the late 90's...when he over-rode Marty's choice to start Gannon, and insisted Grbac be started in the 97 playoff game. From that point on it just went downhill...one bad decision after another it seemed, including letting players go I don't feel he should have.

I've seen so many positive changes under the new franchise regime, or team...of Clark Hunt & Pioli. I live in Kansas City now, attend most all of the Chiefs events and home games...it gives me a bit of an advantage with seeing and hearing things...some I'd rather not see or hear, hahaha. With being able to attend Chiefs related events & home games more than I have in past years...I'm fortunate to experience the positive changes many non local fans haven't.

Needless to say, yes, Pioli impressed me greatly, and that's really not easy to do, hahaha. Until he does something proven unjust & unworthy of my admiration & respect...he has both, and earned it, I didn't give either to him lightly. The man made a point to look for me specifically after an event, then approach to converse related to comments I'd made. We conversed quite a while, which gave me the opportunity to look into the mans eyes as he spoke, hear his tone, all the tools I needed to judge his sincerity. He's the real deal...he's genuinely committed & dedicated to his role as Chiefs GM. His #1 priority is bringing the Lombardi back to KC...he told me that himself, with passion in his tone of voice, intensity in his eyes...and I believe him.

I'm very loyal by nature, and as such will stand to defend those I feel deserve my loyalty. As I said, I will defend Pioli as the man I came to know personally. Who by the way, is not the monster Babb's article attempted to portray him as. The article had me very upset, especially being made aware of the reasons behind it...which are selfish by those involved. I'm not the only one who feels that way, many others do to who have had personal experiences with Pioli.

I feel badly for the man, believing he's the target of vendetta's and sabotage unjustly. I also feel bad for us Chiefs fans, because we're the ones who ultimately suffer the most damage when these types of scandals occur. We didn't do anything to hurt anyone, but we'll pay the price if this all doesn't stop soon. :(

Its amazing how they will villify some one who doesnt play to their wishes. Sports illustrated did an amazing spread on him last year. Came from a very blue collar town/family. He learned the importance of community/family/team.....the right "53". He played small time college ball, worked for peanuts in cleveland sleeping on a cot and has worked his way up since. We are in good hands, screw the naysayers they just want to hate because they are jealous period.

nigeriannightmare
01-27-2012, 12:18 AM
Oh yeah.and he married into bill parcells family who is a football.genius like bill.walsh, vince lombardi.....so.if bill approved we should all.approve.

Chiefster
01-27-2012, 12:34 AM
Well, not to bring the mood down, but I've been overwhelmed the last 2-3 months attempting to help friends through tragedy, illness, & other struggles. Many I talk to in private messages at Facebook offering comfort & support, which can be time consuming, but if i can help then I need to, regardless of time spent. I also keep in touch with many out of town family & friends via FB when I'm logged on there replying to messages.

I hoped & prayed 2012 would bring less tragedy & illness for those I care about, but it hasn't began as such. My dear friends son, who is like a son to me & I've known since he was a toddler, was recently diagnosed with Cancer...he's only 28. He lives within 5 miles of me here in KC, so I've visited him at the hospital, went with him to see DR's for tests, etc..

My young friend Dillon has been struggling again too in battling his terminal brain Cancer...they've stopped a new type of research Chemo again, it's not working.

My best Chiefs buddy, Kelly, lost his 24 yr. old son tragically in November. I drove to Wisconsin to attend the funeral Mass, offer what emotional support I could while there, & as well upon returning home by message & phone. He's gonna be a long time healing, understandably.

This coming Monday my daughter will deliver her 3rd child by C-section, another grandson! She's had some complications, so I've been there for her some too, including attending the last sonogram here in KC. :)

There's more related to family & friends, but, I'll end my 'where have you been' update with... I'm still renovating my home, so have been busy with various renovation projects.

WHEW!! I need a vacation!! :)

So sorry to hear it kiddo. You do need a well deserved vacation. :smile


As far as Peterson, he was a good GM in the beginning, but a 20 yr. reign of power I think was too long, and he'd become complacent. I sensed he began to take it all for granted, including that Chiefs fans are known as some of the most loyal in the NFL, regardless of winning/losing. He was wrong. I began to lose faith in him during the late 90's...when he over-rode Marty's choice to start Gannon, and insisted Grbac be started in the 97 playoff game. From that point on it just went downhill...one bad decision after another it seemed, including letting players go I don't feel he should have.

I've seen so many positive changes under the new franchise regime, or team...of Clark Hunt & Pioli. I live in Kansas City now, attend most all of the Chiefs events and home games...it gives me a bit of an advantage with seeing and hearing things...some I'd rather not see or hear, hahaha. With being able to attend Chiefs related events & home games more than I have in past years...I'm fortunate to experience the positive changes many non local fans haven't.

Needless to say, yes, Pioli impressed me greatly, and that's really not easy to do, hahaha. Until he does something proven unjust & unworthy of my admiration & respect...he has both, and earned it, I didn't give either to him lightly. The man made a point to look for me specifically after an event, then approach to converse related to comments I'd made. We conversed quite a while, which gave me the opportunity to look into the mans eyes as he spoke, hear his tone, all the tools I needed to judge his sincerity. He's the real deal...he's genuinely committed & dedicated to his role as Chiefs GM. His #1 priority is bringing the Lombardi back to KC...he told me that himself, with passion in his tone of voice, intensity in his eyes...and I believe him.

I'm very loyal by nature, and as such will stand to defend those I feel deserve my loyalty. As I said, I will defend Pioli as the man I came to know personally. Who by the way, is not the monster Babb's article attempted to portray him as. The article had me very upset, especially being made aware of the reasons behind it...which are selfish by those involved. I'm not the only one who feels that way, many others do to who have had personal experiences with Pioli.

I feel badly for the man, believing he's the target of vendetta's and sabotage unjustly. I also feel bad for us Chiefs fans, because we're the ones who ultimately suffer the most damage when these types of scandals occur. We didn't do anything to hurt anyone, but we'll pay the price if this all doesn't stop soon. :(

I agree with your assessment of Peterson; he gave us ten good years, unfortunately he was in KC for twenty, and I will take your word for it as far as Pioli goes - you know him a whole lot better than I do. :bananen_smilies046:


Lastly Chiefster...

I do know how the media works, as I worked with all media sources during my career prior to retiring early...from National magazines, to TV interviews, to newspaper features. The KC Star did a feature story on me once upon a time, related to my career achievements. It was a praising article, not derogatory...but they still put their own hype & spin on it, misquoted me, to make it more appealing to readers. That's how it works...I know the game, been there, done that, many times. :)

Wow, I think it's safe to assume that you are not taken in by any perceived media bias. I know it's not saying much but I, for one, am very impressed by your life experience kiddo! :smile

doobs_05
01-27-2012, 01:50 AM
Report: Chiefs refuse to pay Haley the balance of his salary | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/26/report-chiefs-refuse-to-pay-haley-the-balance-of-his-salary/)

well this doesn't help the Chiefs look good

Connie Jo
01-27-2012, 02:06 AM
Its amazing how they will villify some one who doesnt play to their wishes. Sports illustrated did an amazing spread on him last year. Came from a very blue collar town/family. He learned the importance of community/family/team.....the right "53". He played small time college ball, worked for peanuts in cleveland sleeping on a cot and has worked his way up since. We are in good hands, screw the naysayers they just want to hate because they are jealous period.

He impressed me as a very humble & grateful man. Yep, he more than paid his dues working hard and sacrificing himself to achieve what he has in life...none of it was handed to him, unlike that of many in his position.

I also sensed insecurity in him, in that he was overwhelmed with gratitude towards me, related to my comments made earlier in the evening to he, Clark Hunt, & Mark Donovan. After our initial conversation with him approaching me, he spotted me several times while I socialized at the event...each time the man made a point to approach and thank me again. Such as, "your comments meant alot to me personally, I'm genuinely grateful and appreciative to you, I can't thank you enough."

I can't remember any one thanking me for comments made as much as Scott Pioli did that night. It was an awkward feeling, to have this man standing before me with such gratitude, a man whom is famous for winning multiple Super Bowls, among other noted awards. I thought to myself as I left that night..."my gawd, this man reacted as if no one has ever praised him before." I felt bad for him that night too. I know Clark Hunt has said several times..."no one is harder on Scott Pioli than he is himself".

I think I'll write him a letter soon, let him know I still believe in him and that he will accomplish his goals. I think he could use some positive fan response right about now, considering all the negative publicity. :)

Connie Jo
01-27-2012, 02:22 AM
Report: Chiefs refuse to pay Haley the balance of his salary | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/26/report-chiefs-refuse-to-pay-haley-the-balance-of-his-salary/)

well this doesn't help the Chiefs look good


It's more media crapola, that's all. They released this story based upon a Twitter comment by some radio guy in Arizona who has ties to Haley. Wonder who leaked such info to the Arizona radio dude? No, actually, I don't wonder.

I think we as fans have all witnessed within Haley's personality a vindictive streak...such as when he refused to shake McDaniels hand. As I reflect now knowing what I do, I don't think he refused to shake McDaniels hand because of the score being ran up...I think he was jealous of McDaniels. McDaniels has a longstanding good relationship with Pioli, Haley didn't.

*IF*...what I've heard some players say about Haley's attitude behind the scenes is true, and *IF* it's true Weiss left as a result of conflicts with Haley, in addition to Haley firing Gailey 2 wks. before the 2009 season throwing out the playbook...Haley won't win in court. *IF* there's any truth to the Chiefs refusing to pay him for the time remaining on his contract, that is. There is a clause stating they have the right to fire him if his actions were detrimental to the team or franchise. I'd say *IF* all those factors above are true...indeed his actions were detrimental to our team & franchise. :(

Connie Jo
01-27-2012, 02:38 AM
So sorry to hear it kiddo. You do need a well deserved vacation. :smile



I agree with your assessment of Peterson; he gave us ten good years, unfortunately he was in KC for twenty, and I will take your word for it as far as Pioli goes - you know him a whole lot better than I do. :bananen_smilies046:



Wow, I think it's safe to assume that you are not taken in by any perceived media bias. I know it's not saying much but I, for one, am very impressed by your life experience kiddo! :smile

Thank you. It was a different life once upon a time. I don't talk about it much. A life of which after a decade of sacrificing myself to meet all the demands upon my time by many people...I chose to walk away from. Many said I was crazy for walking away from potential fame and fortune, but neither were what I ever wanted from life. I came as close as I needed to...to know it wasn't the life for me, so walked away from it all in 1996.

I still have all the TV news features of me & my career achievements on VHS tapes, including one from Channel 5 here in KC, also Topeka, Lawrence, others in the Midwest. I have all the magazines & a couple of hardback books my work & I were also featured in, and the newspaper articles too. I use to joke that once upon a time I was a centerfold, hahaha...not in body, but in design work, haha. The centerfolds a few times in magaznes were rooms I had designed. Someday when I'm gone, they will all help tell my grandkids & great-grandkids a partial story of who I was in life, what I accomplished related to my career and a passion. ;)

Chiefster
01-27-2012, 04:20 AM
Thank you. It was a different life once upon a time. I don't talk about it much. A life of which after a decade of sacrificing myself to meet all the demands upon my time by many people...I chose to walk away from. Many said I was crazy for walking away from potential fame and fortune, but neither were what I ever wanted from life. I came as close as I needed to...to know it wasn't the life for me, so walked away from it all in 1996.

I still have all the TV news features of me & my career achievements on VHS tapes, including one from Channel 5 here in KC, also Topeka, Lawrence, others in the Midwest. I have all the magazines & a couple of hardback books my work & I were also featured in, and the newspaper articles too. I use to joke that once upon a time I was a centerfold, hahaha...not in body, but in design work, haha. The centerfolds a few times in magaznes were rooms I had designed. Someday when I'm gone, they will all help tell my grandkids & great-grandkids a partial story of who I was in life, what I accomplished related to my career and a passion. ;)

I understand exactly what you mean; I walked away from a job that paid me very well and would have paid me a lot more had I stayed, but I simply did not like who was staring back at me in the mirror. I couldn't live with who I was becoming. It was the kind of work that if you no longer loved doing then it was time to get out and that's what I did.

chief31
01-27-2012, 12:33 PM
There is a BIG difference in forming an opinion based upon media speculation, hype, spin...fan rumors, hearsay, etc....and hearing something DIRECTLY from Chiefs players themselves. :D


No. There is not.

Taking what some folks say (the players) and using that to form your opinion about somebody is exactly heresay.

Not that I think it is some crime to do it. Just kinda showing that you are doing what you say you don't do.

And what strikes me about it, is the level of certainty that you display in your heresay-based opinion.

You tend to state some of these in a fact-based presentation.

You met Scott Pioli, and he was very respectable.

But that does not indicate that he was 100% honest. ANd I would find it astonishing if we as purely the victim of Todd Haley, as your opinion suggests to me that he was.

dbolan
01-27-2012, 12:53 PM
No. There is not.

Taking what some folks say (the players) and using that to form your opinion about somebody is exactly heresay.

Not that I think it is some crime to do it. Just kinda showing that you are doing what you say you don't do.

And what strikes me about it, is the level of certainty that you display in your heresay-based opinion.

You tend to state some of these in a fact-based presentation.

You met Scott Pioli, and he was very respectable.

But that does not indicate that he was 100% honest. ANd I would find it astonishing if we as purely the victim of Todd Haley, as your opinion suggests to me that he was.

That was a great read there....

Now, for all of the bad that we have heard about TH, I did hear some info about him...Not that it holds water but to the contrary of what is typed regularly here.

I heard that Haley played games and jokes with the players. They were all "pals", so to speak.

So now, we have one extreme to the other, eh?

Just a thought.....

chief31
01-27-2012, 01:04 PM
That was a great read there....

Now, for all of the bad that we have heard about TH, I did hear some info about him...Not that it holds water but to the contrary of what is typed regularly here.

I heard that Haley played games and jokes with the players. They were all "pals", so to speak.

So now, we have one extreme to the other, eh?

Just a thought.....

My guess would be that there are some facts behind any and all sides.

We know that Haley had some issues with his relationships with some players, in the past. So it is pretty reasonable to expect that some of that continued.

And, as with any issue of this sort, it is pretty reasonable to figure that Pioli was not entirely wonderful to work for.

If he were, then there would be no problems with him and Todd Haley.

I think Connie is leaning toward a "side", based on her meeting one of the sides, and liking them. When you meet someone, and all you see of them is the positives, theen you tend to ignore any negatives you hear. And even go so far as to take that person's side, without facts.

Connie......

I certainly don't hold it against you in the least. You seem like a very good person.

I just feel that you have a bias on the topic.

OPLookn
01-27-2012, 02:25 PM
My guess would be that there are some facts behind any and all sides.

We know that Haley had some issues with his relationships with some players, in the past. So it is pretty reasonable to expect that some of that continued.

And, as with any issue of this sort, it is pretty reasonable to figure that Pioli was not entirely wonderful to work for.

If he were, then there would be no problems with him and Todd Haley.

I think Connie is leaning toward a "side", based on her meeting one of the sides, and liking them. When you meet someone, and all you see of them is the positives, theen you tend to ignore any negatives you hear. And even go so far as to take that person's side, without facts.

Connie......

I certainly don't hold it against you in the least. You seem like a very good person.

I just feel that you have a bias on the topic.

Unfortunately some people just don't get along and that person (player) doesn't like the other (Haley) for any other reason then they're opposites. Then when that player tells you...Haley did x, y, z and he was mean and derogatory about it to someone outside of the occurence that person will feel that they got an honest opinion straight from the source. Especially if they like the person (player). It's a natural part of life and unfortunately everyone does it regardless of if they'll admit it or not.

Connie Jo
01-28-2012, 07:37 PM
No. There is not.

Taking what some folks say (the players) and using that to form your opinion about somebody is exactly heresay.

Not that I think it is some crime to do it. Just kinda showing that you are doing what you say you don't do.

And what strikes me about it, is the level of certainty that you display in your heresay-based opinion.

You tend to state some of these in a fact-based presentation.

You met Scott Pioli, and he was very respectable.

But that does not indicate that he was 100% honest. ANd I would find it astonishing if we as purely the victim of Todd Haley, as your opinion suggests to me that he was.

I don't trust media, their sources are never confirmed. They report irresponsibly and inaccurately often. Some of the players I do trust, and were not only eye witnesses, but directly involved. Out of respect for those involved I'm aware of, I can't give you names...journalists looking for scoop read internet forums too. ;)

In our judicial system testimony from those who witnessed events, as well as were victims...are considered evidence and allowed, not considered 'hearsay', nor speculation, rumor, gossip...rather a factual account. I somewhat form opinions in the same way, depending upon the history of the witness. Obviously, if someone has a dishonorable history I would naturally wonder about their claims, but someone with a history of integrity I would trust.

I've spent a decade volunteering as a counselor to victims of many circumstances, as such, I've also had to study human psychology and philosophy...to aid me in helping others. When I combine that experience along with natural instincts & wisdom...I'm not easy to fool. It's not impossible, there are some personalities whom are very good at deception, however...body language and eye movement when speaking to someone are difficult for most humans to control when lying, or being deceitful in some manner. Both are valuable assets when determining whether or not to believe someone. :)

I don't believe Scott Pioli is perfect, no one is, and he's admitted himself he failed with building enough depth. Based upon his history professionally and personally, including his upbringing, his honorable behavior towards me, interacting with him one on one looking him in the eye, paying close attention to details...the man at the very least believed 100% what he was saying to me.

He's given me absolutely no reason not to believe in him as a person of integrity, and until he does...I shall continue having trust and belief in what he says. :D

chief31
01-29-2012, 02:03 AM
I don't trust media, their sources are never confirmed. They report irresponsibly and inaccurately often. Some of the players I do trust, and were not only eye witnesses, but directly involved. Out of respect for those involved I'm aware of, I can't give you names...journalists looking for scoop read internet forums too. ;)

In our judicial system testimony from those who witnessed events, as well as were victims...are considered evidence and allowed, not considered 'hearsay', nor speculation, rumor, gossip...rather a factual account. I somewhat form opinions in the same way, depending upon the history of the witness. Obviously, if someone has a dishonorable history I would naturally wonder about their claims, but someone with a history of integrity I would trust.

I've spent a decade volunteering as a counselor to victims of many circumstances, as such, I've also had to study human psychology and philosophy...to aid me in helping others. When I combine that experience along with natural instincts & wisdom...I'm not easy to fool. It's not impossible, there are some personalities whom are very good at deception, however...body language and eye movement when speaking to someone are difficult for most humans to control when lying, or being deceitful in some manner. Both are valuable assets when determining whether or not to believe someone. :)

I don't believe Scott Pioli is perfect, no one is, and he's admitted himself he failed with building enough depth. Based upon his history professionally and personally, including his upbringing, his honorable behavior towards me, interacting with him one on one looking him in the eye, paying close attention to details...the man at the very least believed 100% what he was saying to me.

He's given me absolutely no reason not to believe in him as a person of integrity, and until he does...I shall continue having trust and belief in what he says. :D

Anytime you are willing to take one side of a story and believe it, without hearing the other, it is bias.

You can go on and on about your credentials for lie-detection. But it does not change that you have based your beliefs on hearsay (Dictionary), and that you are displaying a clear bias.

Connie Jo
01-30-2012, 02:18 AM
Anytime you are willing to take one side of a story and believe it, without hearing the other, it is bias.

You can go on and on about your credentials for lie-detection. But it does not change that you have based your beliefs on hearsay (Dictionary), and that you are displaying a clear bias.

I don't disgree with that, but I have heard both sides. As well, I took the time to read through the petitions filed by the attorneys for the plaintiffs in the pending suit against the Chiefs. They're available online for any one to read. Once pending lawsuits are resolved, then more facts will be revealed publicly about what occurred with Haley. Currently, the Chiefs attorney's have advised them not to speak publicly on the pending lawsuit or the situation with Haley, which is indirectly related.

Furthermore...if Haley files a suit against the Chiefs for the remainder on his contract he feels he's owed...he will more than likely lose, based upon the facts I'm aware of. There is a clause in his contract of which states the Chiefs have the legal right to dismiss him if he does anything detrimental to the team or franchise. There is solid evidence he indeed did so, extensively...and many witnesses will testify to such under oath...players, asst. coaches, and more.

okikcfan
01-30-2012, 02:22 PM
Well Thanks for what you know Connie and sharing it. I for one believe in Pioli, to me he has done pretty well so far. He has made mistakes and he has admitted to them, how many in his line of work really do that? In Gm terms, he has been here a short time, and he needs time and it takes time to build a good competitive ball club. So, until he does something to completely destroy my trust in him, I will back him 100 percent. As far as QB goes, he is in a tough spot right now and we will just have to wait and see what he does in this years draft and FA. We all want the same thing, him I'm sure more than us to some degree, lets just give him the chance to do it. Connie jo is our eye's and ears at Arrowhead because of her commitment and involvement with our Chiefs and I believe 100% of what she says she believe's to be true and until she proves herself wrong or deceitful, I will trust what she has to say and I thank her for sharing what she does know......

dbolan
01-31-2012, 08:44 AM
After reading the article about the Chiefs refusing to pay Haley....I can't help but saying this....

The Chiefs were UNDER the cap by $30mil, 3 key offensive starters get hurt, the team goes into a losing skid, the coach gets canned, then the GM admits to the mistake of not having enough roster depth. Now, they will not pay the coach for his final year of the contract.

Does ANYONE really see what is wrong with that picture? LMAO!

Canada
01-31-2012, 01:01 PM
After reading the article about the Chiefs refusing to pay Haley....I can't help but saying this....

The Chiefs were UNDER the cap by $30mil, 3 key offensive starters get hurt, the team goes into a losing skid, the coach gets canned, then the GM admits to the mistake of not having enough roster depth. Now, they will not pay the coach for his final year of the contract.

Does ANYONE really see what is wrong with that picture? LMAO!Yeah...tho coach who breached his contract and got his dumb as$ fired.

dbolan
01-31-2012, 01:09 PM
Yeah...tho coach who breached his contract and got his dumb as$ fired.

Ummm...It would be the Chiefs that breached the contract, not Haley.

matthewschiefs
01-31-2012, 01:20 PM
After reading the article about the Chiefs refusing to pay Haley....I can't help but saying this....

The Chiefs were UNDER the cap by $30mil, 3 key offensive starters get hurt, the team goes into a losing skid, the coach gets canned, then the GM admits to the mistake of not having enough roster depth. Now, they will not pay the coach for his final year of the contract.

Does ANYONE really see what is wrong with that picture? LMAO!

For the coach getting fired I see nothing wrong with it. The team looked like a joke. Yes there were injuries. Every team has them. We had more then others true. But that is no excuse for just how horrible this team looked this past season. Even with the injuries they beat the packers.

For not paying him I can't tell you yes or no on that. The fact is we don't no what happened. We don't no just how bad things were with Haley. There are a lot of rumors out there of just how bad things got with Haley. Those are just rumors so you can't really no for sure. But we just don't no enough to say weather or not they should pay him. Will just have to wait to see how that plays out.

figcrostic
01-31-2012, 02:29 PM
Yeah...tho coach who breached his contract and got his dumb as$ fired.

Technically it would be the Chiefs that breached the contract that's why they have to pay out the remainder of his contract.

Canada
01-31-2012, 08:07 PM
Ummm...It would be the Chiefs that breached the contract, not Haley.Really...I seem to remember a story about a Coach who made a lot of unsubstantiated remarks about his employer after he was fired. Not to mention the insubordination playing Palko just to spite Pioli. Dont let the hate blind ya

okikcfan
01-31-2012, 08:56 PM
As well as remarks made to his players and their fair treatment. He won't win.

Canada
01-31-2012, 09:23 PM
Todd Haley is a douche

Connie Jo
02-01-2012, 02:05 AM
The Chiefs actually aren't legally bound to pay him. There's a clause stating if he did anything considered detrimental to the franchise or team, they had the right to terminate him without further compensation.

One of two things could occur...first, Haley could file a lawsuit taking it to court & attempt to show proof he was unjustly fired. It's been said by several involved, & willing to testify against Haley, that Haley deserved to be fired. Second possibility...the Chiefs could choose to settle with Haley feeling it's to their benefit with avoiding the negative publicity and costs/time related to a suit.

Connie Jo
02-01-2012, 02:23 AM
Consider the evidence against Haley already known by the public fanbase...

He fired the OC right before the season began in 2009, threw out the playbook. He didn't get along with Weiss in 2010, who as a result chose to leave the Chiefs 2 wks. before the playoff game, which we lost terribly as a result. Haley refused to show good sportsmanship with shaking McDaniels hand after a horrible loss...photo's & video reveal anger and/or remarks Haley made to McDaniels. There are multiple game clips of Haley on the sidelines exploding on his players. As well, there are many players stating conflict with Haley on the practice field, etc..

The final straw for the franchise was allegedly when Haley verbally attacked Bowe on the practice field, of which 'RUMOR' claims Haley later made remarks to Bowe considered 'racist'. He became further angry at Bowe when he learned Bowe went to Pioli lodging a complaint against Haley. There were players rumored wanting out of KC because of Haley.

The above is just the 'tip of the iceberg'.

Oh, and Haley has been quoted now as saying he's going to write a book about it all. Call me judgemental if you wish...but history has shown that many who impulsively write books after a negative event...tend to have self absorbed personalities. Their book venture isn't to benefit a reading public...it's to self profit off of others suffering. IE: OJ Simpson...Faye Resnick?

Final thought...those who will be hurt most by Haley's vindictive & profiting nature...aren't those behind doors at 1 Arrowhead Drive. It is you and me...the fans, who will suffer the most damage related to franchise turmoil & scandal inspired by Haley. We're innocent...we did nothing to no one. Obviously, Haley doesn't give a damn about the damage he's doing to the innocent fanbase.

We're not like McDonalds...of which Haley once sued for millions. Once a franchise is tainted by scandal...it follows the franchise negatively for a very, very, long time...that hurts innocent loyal fans most. :(

dbolan
02-01-2012, 09:36 AM
Really...I seem to remember a story about a Coach who made a lot of unsubstantiated remarks about his employer after he was fired. Not to mention the insubordination playing Palko just to spite Pioli. Dont let the hate blind ya

First, after he was fired, the Chiefs were no longer his "employer" :D

Second, can you prove that he played Palko after a direct order otherwise?

There is no hate on any of them from my perspective.

Simply put, if you truly believe Pioli came down from the halls of glory to tell Haley who is gonna play QB, then you may as well accept that ALL of the poor decisions that were made were Pioli's as well.

You say don;t be a hater on Pioli, yet you seem to be a hater on Haley.

So, you do what you do and I will do what I do.....LOL

dbolan
02-01-2012, 09:40 AM
Consider the evidence against Haley already known by the public fanbase...

He fired the OC right before the season began in 2009, threw out the playbook. He didn't get along with Weiss in 2010, who as a result chose to leave the Chiefs 2 wks. before the playoff game, which we lost terribly as a result. Haley refused to show good sportsmanship with shaking McDaniels hand after a horrible loss...photo's & video reveal anger and/or remarks Haley made to McDaniels. There are multiple game clips of Haley on the sidelines exploding on his players. As well, there are many players stating conflict with Haley on the practice field, etc..

The final straw for the franchise was allegedly when Haley verbally attacked Bowe on the practice field, of which 'RUMOR' claims Haley later made remarks to Bowe considered 'racist'. He became further angry at Bowe when he learned Bowe went to Pioli lodging a complaint against Haley. There were players rumored wanting out of KC because of Haley.

The above is just the 'tip of the iceberg'.

Oh, and Haley has been quoted now as saying he's going to write a book about it all. Call me judgemental if you wish...but history has shown that many who impulsively write books after a negative event...tend to have self absorbed personalities. Their book venture isn't to benefit a reading public...it's to self profit off of others suffering. IE: OJ Simpson...Faye Resnick?

Final thought...those who will be hurt most by Haley's vindictive & profiting nature...aren't those behind doors at 1 Arrowhead Drive. It is you and me...the fans, who will suffer the most damage related to franchise turmoil & scandal inspired by Haley. We're innocent...we did nothing to no one. Obviously, Haley doesn't give a damn about the damage he's doing to the innocent fanbase.

We're not like McDonalds...of which Haley once sued for millions. Once a franchise is tainted by scandal...it follows the franchise negatively for a very, very, long time...that hurts innocent loyal fans most. :(

RUMORs are NOT evidence!!

Haley was a GOD in 2010...And it all went south in one year? LMAO

dbolan
02-01-2012, 09:48 AM
The Chiefs actually aren't legally bound to pay him. There's a clause stating if he did anything considered detrimental to the franchise or team, they had the right to terminate him without further compensation.

One of two things could occur...first, Haley could file a lawsuit taking it to court & attempt to show proof he was unjustly fired. It's been said by several involved, & willing to testify against Haley, that Haley deserved to be fired. Second possibility...the Chiefs could choose to settle with Haley feeling it's to their benefit with avoiding the negative publicity and costs/time related to a suit.

Okay then they should testify! Just because someone said they would testify against him and/or that Haley deserved to be fired, it does NOT automatically incriminate him. How many would/could say otherwise?

Bottom line..The case has NOT been heard in the courts.

Canada
02-01-2012, 10:14 AM
First, after he was fired, the Chiefs were no longer his "employer" :D

Second, can you prove that he played Palko after a direct order otherwise?

There is no hate on any of them from my perspective.

Simply put, if you truly believe Pioli came down from the halls of glory to tell Haley who is gonna play QB, then you may as well accept that ALL of the poor decisions that were made were Pioli's as well.

You say don;t be a hater on Pioli, yet you seem to be a hater on Haley.

So, you do what you do and I will do what I do.....LOLIf thats your logic then why should they pay him?

Its not up to me to prove who did what...but I would be willing to bet money that there is cause for the Chiefs not paying him. Its not because they just decided not to pay him...if you believe that then I have a handful of magic beans I would like to sell you.

I say dont be a hater on Piloi because he is the Gm of the Kansas City Chiefs. I dont know about you, but that is my favorite football team. As far as Haley...he is not a member of the chiefs. he had my support when he was here, I did not agree with everything he did but I still supported him. Now hes gone so why back him?

okikcfan
02-01-2012, 11:38 AM
RUMORs are NOT evidence!!

Haley was a GOD in 2010...And it all went south in one year? LMAO

Besides the fact you must be a lawyer, why are you so Pro-Haley. Yes he gave us one good year, now injuries aside, just what did he give us last year? Palko ? :lol:

dbolan
02-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Besides the fact you must be a lawyer, why are you so Pro-Haley. Yes he gave us one good year, now injuries aside, just what did he give us last year? Palko ? :lol:

Haha! Well.... Just kidding..

Oki, it is not that I am a Pro-Haley fan but I really try to look at all potential facets of the situation. Much of it is hearsay, some are opinions, some may be fact and some are surely fiction.

To make a point on that, here is a scenario that "could" be assumed:

Let's just say, for example, that Pioli was the driving force in signing Palko and Haley did not agree with it. So, when it came time for Palko to suit up, Haley played the bosses pick and he sucked. The Boss never tells Haley to bench him but instead, insinuates to a few talking heads (media maggots) that he wanted Palko out but Haley refused.

All of that said, I find it difficult to believe that Haley or any other coach would flat out tell the Boss that he is NOT going to pull Palko UNLESS he knew that Stanzi would not do any better. Maybe Pioli MADE him play Palko? Maybe...Maybe...Maybe....And tons more Maybe's....

None of us really know all of it. Along with that, there has been plenty of unpleasant "remarks, statements, etc" about employees having difficulty with Pioli's domineering antics.

Now, do I think Haley should have given Stanzi a shot? I certainly lean that way. Do I think that Pioli has accumulated the roster depth we need? No.

What I see is a "Suit" that made the decisions to hire this coach, draft/sign the players and he merely gets a pass by saying "I have made some mistakes" and the coach gets dogged down and kicked to the curb not only by the organization but also by the fans AND players that supported him when the team was winning the AFC WEST title.

I do believe Haley deserved one more year with the returning starters that were injured and with some new addtions.

dbolan
02-01-2012, 01:02 PM
If thats your logic then why should they pay him?

Its not up to me to prove who did what...but I would be willing to bet money that there is cause for the Chiefs not paying him. Its not because they just decided not to pay him...if you believe that then I have a handful of magic beans I would like to sell you.

I say dont be a hater on Piloi because he is the Gm of the Kansas City Chiefs. I dont know about you, but that is my favorite football team. As far as Haley...he is not a member of the chiefs. he had my support when he was here, I did not agree with everything he did but I still supported him. Now hes gone so why back him?

They decided to stay $30mil under the cap didn't they? If you were not a Chiefs fan wouldn't you view them as being tight-wads? I would be willing to bet you would and that is why they do not want to pay him.

So, even though you did not agree with everything Haley done, you supported him. Now, in your own words, he is a "douche"??? That tells a tale all in it's own!

matthewschiefs
02-01-2012, 01:26 PM
They decided to stay $30mil under the cap didn't they? If you were not a Chiefs fan wouldn't you view them as being tight-wads? I would be willing to bet you would and that is why they do not want to pay him.

So, even though you did not agree with everything Haley done, you supported him. Now, in your own words, he is a "douche"??? That tells a tale all in it's own!

I think instead of just viewing them as tight wads with the cap people need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. There could be a reason that they decided to keep that cap room. Like maybe keeping Bowe,Carr? Getting Hali resigned this past off season. Until they had that worked out they didn't know just how much it was going to cost them. There are reasons that a team might keep under the cap other then they are just being cheap.

There is enough out there to think that there might have been something that we the fans don't get to see. The rumors about some bad things he said to Bowe. Witch don't seem to be to far fetched with the way that he was on the sidelines. Have you ever seen a coach get a penalty? Haley lets him emotions get the better of him at times maybe he went a step to far? This same ownership and Gm fired Herm Edwards. They didn't refuse to pay him. Did they suddenly become "tight wads" the day after they let him go?

matthewschiefs
02-01-2012, 01:29 PM
RUMORs are NOT evidence!!

Haley was a GOD in 2010...And it all went south in one year? LMAO

Your are 100% right Rumors and not evidence. But the ownership and Gm have more Info then what we do. They are there we are not. keep that in mind.

Haley was outstanding in 2010. But his act wore on this team and he lost them. When that happens things go south and the coach loses his job. It's not the first time its happend in the NFL and it won't be the last. Haley lost the team and needed to go. Things can go south that quickly in the NFL when you are not winning games and getting your rear end handed to you by winless teams at home. You get shown the door

hayden2004
02-01-2012, 01:51 PM
Man alot of homers on this board.

whackojacko58
02-01-2012, 02:10 PM
im a chiefs fan we are tight wads always have been, i liked haley but the final straw for me was when he got a penalty a personal foul for that matter on a drive that had what like 8 penaltys for 83 yards? also we thought haley drove bowe and dj to become probowlers, if thats the case at the pro bowl dj said great things about crennel and said nothing about haley. he had lost his locker room we blame the gm fast on this franchise i say due to how peterson t baged us, this year will be great, our players coming back loving there coach, and this draft will solidify this season, just watch pioli wasnt the issue haley was.

OPLookn
02-01-2012, 02:12 PM
Man alot of homers on this board.

Keep on preaching that conspiracy! There's gotta be one, just look hard enough. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go back to bugging people's phone.

:whipping1:

pojote
02-01-2012, 02:17 PM
If the Chiefs don't want to pay Haley, they already know that a lawsuit can come. They already know also, that everything in a trial will become public, so they are willing to take that chance.

Canada
02-01-2012, 07:26 PM
They decided to stay $30mil under the cap didn't they? If you were not a Chiefs fan wouldn't you view them as being tight-wads? I would be willing to bet you would and that is why they do not want to pay him.

So, even though you did not agree with everything Haley done, you supported him. Now, in your own words, he is a "douche"??? That tells a tale all in it's own!Being cheap and illegally refusing to pay someone are two different things though wouldnt you say?? But your OPINION is that they are tightwads...I dont think anyone who does not want to lose money would intentionally open themselves to a lawsuit. Again though...im just using common sense. I have no agenda to hate on Pioli every chance i get.

Yes I supported the Chiefs unconditionally...as I always do. Do I think Todd Haley looks more and more like an idiot every time he opens his mouth? yes...a year is a long time to change someones opinion.

Canada
02-01-2012, 07:27 PM
Man alot of homers on this board.Whats wrong with that?? I have seen a million monkeys yap about why they hate the Chiefs.

Canada
02-01-2012, 07:28 PM
If the Chiefs don't want to pay Haley, they already know that a lawsuit can come. They already know also, that everything in a trial will become public, so they are willing to take that chance.
If they are willing to do that, i assume it is because they are right.

hayden2004
02-01-2012, 08:04 PM
Getting Away, Going Home … Wednesday Cup O’Chiefs (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/getting-away-going-home-wednesday-cup-ochiefs.html)

February 1, 2012 - Bob Gretz | Comments (25) (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/getting-away-going-home-wednesday-cup-ochiefs.html#comments)
http://www.bobgretz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/020112_0341_GettingAway1.jpgOver the weekend I learned former Chiefs head coach Todd Haley would be visiting with the Pittsburgh Steelers about their offensive coordinator’s job that came open last week with the firing of Bruce Arians.
That visit went down Tuesday in Pittsburgh and the results remain unknown. By the time you read this, a decision yeah or nay could already have been made. Late Tuesday evening, things appeared all quiet on the eastern front.
I can tell you this, never have I rooted for a coach to get a job as hard as I’m rooting for Haley to land with the black and gold. I’m always the first one to say be careful what you wish for because you might get it. I know that Haley would like to spend his 2012 season back home with the Steelers, the team that was so much a part of his youth. There’s almost a magical feel to the mere possibility.
More than anything, it would be the perfect antidote for Haley to recover from what he lived with over his final two seasons as head coach of the Chiefs.
We’ve all heard so much from Clark Hunt about how he wants his organization to be like the Steelers, and then he turns around and does things that are completely opposite of what would happen with the Rooney family. Maybe if this job works out, Haley will actually get a taste of the Steelers Way.
It’s become more and more apparent that even though he was named coach of the year by some outlets in 2010, won a division title and got the Chiefs into the playoffs with a lineup far from championship caliber, the organization wanted to dump him after that season. Unfortunately, neither Hunt nor GM Scott Pioli had the guts to pull the trigger and make the move, so worried were they about the public reaction to firing a coach that made the playoffs.
Instead, they kept him on board and went about making his life as head coach as miserable as possible. Second guessing of decisions to his face, to others in the organization, to friendly media types began almost immediately. Hunt would have preferred the Chiefs have kept Charlie Weis as offensive coordinator and gotten rid of Haley, but that’s not how things worked out.
There was constant harping at Haley about little things. The head coach went to a Lil’Wayne concert on a Monday night in August with some of his players and word spread out of the Chiefs offices around the league that Haley was a slacker, unwilling to work hard. There were snide comments in the national media, passed down the pipeline from the Chiefs front office about his mental stability and his supposedly uncontrollable temper. There were willing partners in the local media who were fed this pabulum as well, and they repeated it almost with glee.
There was the talk of how he dressed; his raggedy hat, his shaving habits, his sweatshirts and the like. Those last items really infuriated the home office in Dallas. The talk out of Hunt Central was that Haley did not represent what an NFL head coach should look like. Wonder if Bill Belichick has ever had Patriots owner Robert Kraft walk into his office and question him about his choice of hoodie with cutoff sleeves for his sideline apparel?
One of the things that gnawed at Haley almost immediately upon his arrival in the building was how little things became big things, the old making a mountain out of a mole hill. Plus, there was the inability of the organization to move quickly and pull the trigger on various situations. There were constant conversations, back and forth between the offices and Dallas, more meetings and still sometimes a decision couldn’t get made.
For the last two seasons he was the head coach, Haley was one man in the boat with a single oar. There was nobody rowing in the same direction. I don’t buy a lot of conspiracy theories on any subject, but more and more it seems like the team’s unwillingness to spend money on new players going into last year when there were so many possibilities may have had motives other than saving a buck.
As has happened frequently with the powers in charge with the Chiefs, anything that happens even after a person leaves the building is blamed on the absent. The Kansas City Star story on the toxic environment around the team has been blamed on Haley around the bigwigs at team headquarters. Now, there’s talk that the team is not going to pay him the last year of his contract, because they fired him “with cause.” Cause was never a word that Hunt or Pioli used when they announced Haley’s firing on December 12.
Eventually, the Chiefs will pay Haley the money they owe him, even if he has to go to league arbitration and the court house to get the check. It will just be a continuation of the hapless behavior of a franchise that has become an NFL laughingstock. At the Senior Bowl last week there were 800 NFL team employees in Mobile. I didn’t talk to 800 or 400 or even 200. But over five days, I bet I spoke to 100 head coaches, assistant coaches, GMs, front office employees and scouts. Almost to a man, they wanted to know about the Star story. It seems that everyone in the league has read the toxic tale and not a single one of them made a comment to indicate they thought Haley was out of his mind for thinking his office was bugged and his phone tapped. Most of them were not surprised.
If Haley can jump to the stability that is the hallmark of the Rooney family and their operation of the Steelers, it will help wash away the last two years in the toxic soup of the Chiefs organization. In Pittsburgh right now, things are not perfect. Their early departure from the playoffs was not what’s expected each year. The team’s offense has been spotty and has drifted too far to the passing side, with not enough running game. Arians was fired and that has made quarterback Ben Roethlisberger unhappy. It seems like Roethlisberger is continually hurt, because he holds onto the ball so long and takes so many hits. They badly need to rebuild their offensive line, which has had massive injury problems over the last few seasons.
But, compared to what Todd Haley’s had to live with the past two years, it would be a day at the coaching beach, where he could coach and not have to constantly look over his shoulder.

josh1971
02-01-2012, 09:08 PM
This seems so much like it's just become fashionable to bash Pioli and the organization, and so people are piling on.

Connie Jo
02-01-2012, 10:49 PM
Well Thanks for what you know Connie and sharing it. I for one believe in Pioli, to me he has done pretty well so far. He has made mistakes and he has admitted to them, how many in his line of work really do that? In Gm terms, he has been here a short time, and he needs time and it takes time to build a good competitive ball club. So, until he does something to completely destroy my trust in him, I will back him 100 percent. As far as QB goes, he is in a tough spot right now and we will just have to wait and see what he does in this years draft and FA. We all want the same thing, him I'm sure more than us to some degree, lets just give him the chance to do it. Connie jo is our eye's and ears at Arrowhead because of her commitment and involvement with our Chiefs and I believe 100% of what she says she believe's to be true and until she proves herself wrong or deceitful, I will trust what she has to say and I thank her for sharing what she does know......

Well, thank you. My feelings related to Pioli are the same as yours...until he gives me just cause not to believe in him...I will believe in him, because he has given me just cause as such.

As far as my integrity or ability to be wrong, haha...well, please keep in mind I form my opinions based upon my own life experiences, knowledge, and heartfelt instincts. I'm human, & I can make errors in judgement like anyone else, although not often, haha. I don't mean that egotistically...it's just I'm 'naturally' good at observing human behavior...seeing through people clearly. I've been like that since I was a kid, have been told by Dr's I was born with a gift. There is much truth in that the eyes are the mirror to ones soul. Some pro's I've worked with over the years in the field of psychology & psychiatry, while volunteer counseling helping others...say I have a gift also, but being able to see through others clearly can be a curse as much as a blessing, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm as honest as humanly possible...without integrity the soul is worthless in my humble opinion. I've not sold my soul, and don't intend to. I've been told by many throughout life that I'm "too honest"...well, I don't think such is possible. If I do make an error in judgement...it's an unintentional one, I assure you. :)

Anyway, trust me...no one will be more let down and disappointed in Scott Pioli than I will be...if it's found to be his committment and dedication to the Chiefs franchise is not as he claims. I can tell you this as well, Scott Pioli say's he loves KC, all of it, including the school system his young daughter is in. He said he'd like to spend the remainder of his career with the Chiefs...I for one, believe that too. :)

70 chiefsfan70
02-01-2012, 10:50 PM
I just can't believe I keep reading this thread.

Connie Jo
02-01-2012, 11:05 PM
Getting Away, Going Home … Wednesday Cup O’Chiefs (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/getting-away-going-home-wednesday-cup-ochiefs.html)

February 1, 2012 - Bob Gretz | Comments (25) (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/getting-away-going-home-wednesday-cup-ochiefs.html#comments)
http://www.bobgretz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/020112_0341_GettingAway1.jpgOver the weekend I learned former Chiefs head coach Todd Haley would be visiting with the Pittsburgh Steelers about their offensive coordinator’s job that came open last week with the firing of Bruce Arians.
That visit went down Tuesday in Pittsburgh and the results remain unknown. By the time you read this, a decision yeah or nay could already have been made. Late Tuesday evening, things appeared all quiet on the eastern front.
I can tell you this, never have I rooted for a coach to get a job as hard as I’m rooting for Haley to land with the black and gold. I’m always the first one to say be careful what you wish for because you might get it. I know that Haley would like to spend his 2012 season back home with the Steelers, the team that was so much a part of his youth. There’s almost a magical feel to the mere possibility.
More than anything, it would be the perfect antidote for Haley to recover from what he lived with over his final two seasons as head coach of the Chiefs.
We’ve all heard so much from Clark Hunt about how he wants his organization to be like the Steelers, and then he turns around and does things that are completely opposite of what would happen with the Rooney family. Maybe if this job works out, Haley will actually get a taste of the Steelers Way.
It’s become more and more apparent that even though he was named coach of the year by some outlets in 2010, won a division title and got the Chiefs into the playoffs with a lineup far from championship caliber, the organization wanted to dump him after that season. Unfortunately, neither Hunt nor GM Scott Pioli had the guts to pull the trigger and make the move, so worried were they about the public reaction to firing a coach that made the playoffs.
Instead, they kept him on board and went about making his life as head coach as miserable as possible. Second guessing of decisions to his face, to others in the organization, to friendly media types began almost immediately. Hunt would have preferred the Chiefs have kept Charlie Weis as offensive coordinator and gotten rid of Haley, but that’s not how things worked out.
There was constant harping at Haley about little things. The head coach went to a Lil’Wayne concert on a Monday night in August with some of his players and word spread out of the Chiefs offices around the league that Haley was a slacker, unwilling to work hard. There were snide comments in the national media, passed down the pipeline from the Chiefs front office about his mental stability and his supposedly uncontrollable temper. There were willing partners in the local media who were fed this pabulum as well, and they repeated it almost with glee.
There was the talk of how he dressed; his raggedy hat, his shaving habits, his sweatshirts and the like. Those last items really infuriated the home office in Dallas. The talk out of Hunt Central was that Haley did not represent what an NFL head coach should look like. Wonder if Bill Belichick has ever had Patriots owner Robert Kraft walk into his office and question him about his choice of hoodie with cutoff sleeves for his sideline apparel?
One of the things that gnawed at Haley almost immediately upon his arrival in the building was how little things became big things, the old making a mountain out of a mole hill. Plus, there was the inability of the organization to move quickly and pull the trigger on various situations. There were constant conversations, back and forth between the offices and Dallas, more meetings and still sometimes a decision couldn’t get made.
For the last two seasons he was the head coach, Haley was one man in the boat with a single oar. There was nobody rowing in the same direction. I don’t buy a lot of conspiracy theories on any subject, but more and more it seems like the team’s unwillingness to spend money on new players going into last year when there were so many possibilities may have had motives other than saving a buck.
As has happened frequently with the powers in charge with the Chiefs, anything that happens even after a person leaves the building is blamed on the absent. The Kansas City Star story on the toxic environment around the team has been blamed on Haley around the bigwigs at team headquarters. Now, there’s talk that the team is not going to pay him the last year of his contract, because they fired him “with cause.” Cause was never a word that Hunt or Pioli used when they announced Haley’s firing on December 12.
Eventually, the Chiefs will pay Haley the money they owe him, even if he has to go to league arbitration and the court house to get the check. It will just be a continuation of the hapless behavior of a franchise that has become an NFL laughingstock. At the Senior Bowl last week there were 800 NFL team employees in Mobile. I didn’t talk to 800 or 400 or even 200. But over five days, I bet I spoke to 100 head coaches, assistant coaches, GMs, front office employees and scouts. Almost to a man, they wanted to know about the Star story. It seems that everyone in the league has read the toxic tale and not a single one of them made a comment to indicate they thought Haley was out of his mind for thinking his office was bugged and his phone tapped. Most of them were not surprised.
If Haley can jump to the stability that is the hallmark of the Rooney family and their operation of the Steelers, it will help wash away the last two years in the toxic soup of the Chiefs organization. In Pittsburgh right now, things are not perfect. Their early departure from the playoffs was not what’s expected each year. The team’s offense has been spotty and has drifted too far to the passing side, with not enough running game. Arians was fired and that has made quarterback Ben Roethlisberger unhappy. It seems like Roethlisberger is continually hurt, because he holds onto the ball so long and takes so many hits. They badly need to rebuild their offensive line, which has had massive injury problems over the last few seasons.
But, compared to what Todd Haley’s had to live with the past two years, it would be a day at the coaching beach, where he could coach and not have to constantly look over his shoulder.

The NFL has what's known in law enforcement and the military as a "code of silence". Of course the coaches & others spoken to are not going to make any derogatory comments against Haley. Even moreso because of his connections back East through his father, Dick Haley. As well, of course these people spoken too didn't act surprised related to the Star's allegations...they're use to media stirring such controversy for ratings. They also know EVERY franchise in the NFL does the very same thing Haley has allegedly accused the Chiefs of doing. Corporate issued phones are monitored, and can be done so legally...as a matter of detering employee theft, media leaks, lack of productivity, etc..

Journalists/media...also have a code of sticking behind their pals...such as sticking behind a Kent Babbs who is now being highly criticised for the Star article, of which was based in mere speculation & hearsay.

Tapping a personal cell phone is a Federal crime...if the allegations had any credibility...the FBI would be all over this, including be all over 1 Arrowhead Drive investigating. So far, that has not occurred to anyone's knowledge. The NFL as well, has dismissed the allegations for lack of credible evidence. There is no evidence, not as of yet anyway, and Haley has yet to file a formal complaint with the NFL or authorities...why?

Connie Jo
02-01-2012, 11:10 PM
I will say this, that although I've interacted personally with and like Clark Hunt...I'm not convinced he has the same dedication and committment that his GM, Scott Pioli does. I hope he does, but I'm not sensing the same depth of passion within him as I did Pioli. Clark is a more reserved personality than Pioli, however, his expressions more 'refined', shall we say. No doubt a result of his wealthy upbrining.

Furthermore, related to appearance of Haley, and the Hunts not approving...the Chiefs franchise has always had a 'dress code', for lack of a better definition, since day one when Lamar founded his franchise. It began with Lamar, not Clark. Lamar expected his staff/players from top to bottom to present a clean, respectable, and professional image. That is nothing new.

Connie Jo
02-01-2012, 11:15 PM
This seems so much like it's just become fashionable to bash Pioli and the organization, and so people are piling on.


~Hammer meets nail on head!~
I agree completely. Gretz is a friend of Babbs, whom is now under fire for the Star article, as is the Stars editor. Haley and Babbs are also friends...yet something else about Haley frowned upon...becoming 'too close' with journalists, of whom 'leak' info wanting to be 'the first' to report.

The NFL is a highly competitive billion dollar business. Strictest of confidentiality is necessary with strategic planning to be competitive against opponents, including related to the draft and FA. It's like war...generals strategically plan against their enemies to achieve victory in battles...confidentiality leaks can undermine and destroy their efforts. In the NFL...owners & GM's are the generals, the coaching staff the sergeants, the players the soldiers. No disrespect intended to our brave Military by using them as a comparison to an NFL franchise and the 'game' of pro-football, it is simply the best analogy I could use to make a point.

dbolan
02-02-2012, 07:55 AM
Getting Away, Going Home … Wednesday Cup O’Chiefs (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/getting-away-going-home-wednesday-cup-ochiefs.html)

February 1, 2012 - Bob Gretz | Comments (25) (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/getting-away-going-home-wednesday-cup-ochiefs.html#comments)
http://www.bobgretz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/020112_0341_GettingAway1.jpgOver the weekend I learned former Chiefs head coach Todd Haley would be visiting with the Pittsburgh Steelers about their offensive coordinator’s job that came open last week with the firing of Bruce Arians.
That visit went down Tuesday in Pittsburgh and the results remain unknown. By the time you read this, a decision yeah or nay could already have been made. Late Tuesday evening, things appeared all quiet on the eastern front.
I can tell you this, never have I rooted for a coach to get a job as hard as I’m rooting for Haley to land with the black and gold. I’m always the first one to say be careful what you wish for because you might get it. I know that Haley would like to spend his 2012 season back home with the Steelers, the team that was so much a part of his youth. There’s almost a magical feel to the mere possibility.
More than anything, it would be the perfect antidote for Haley to recover from what he lived with over his final two seasons as head coach of the Chiefs.
We’ve all heard so much from Clark Hunt about how he wants his organization to be like the Steelers, and then he turns around and does things that are completely opposite of what would happen with the Rooney family. Maybe if this job works out, Haley will actually get a taste of the Steelers Way.
It’s become more and more apparent that even though he was named coach of the year by some outlets in 2010, won a division title and got the Chiefs into the playoffs with a lineup far from championship caliber, the organization wanted to dump him after that season. Unfortunately, neither Hunt nor GM Scott Pioli had the guts to pull the trigger and make the move, so worried were they about the public reaction to firing a coach that made the playoffs.
Instead, they kept him on board and went about making his life as head coach as miserable as possible. Second guessing of decisions to his face, to others in the organization, to friendly media types began almost immediately. Hunt would have preferred the Chiefs have kept Charlie Weis as offensive coordinator and gotten rid of Haley, but that’s not how things worked out.
There was constant harping at Haley about little things. The head coach went to a Lil’Wayne concert on a Monday night in August with some of his players and word spread out of the Chiefs offices around the league that Haley was a slacker, unwilling to work hard. There were snide comments in the national media, passed down the pipeline from the Chiefs front office about his mental stability and his supposedly uncontrollable temper. There were willing partners in the local media who were fed this pabulum as well, and they repeated it almost with glee.
There was the talk of how he dressed; his raggedy hat, his shaving habits, his sweatshirts and the like. Those last items really infuriated the home office in Dallas. The talk out of Hunt Central was that Haley did not represent what an NFL head coach should look like. Wonder if Bill Belichick has ever had Patriots owner Robert Kraft walk into his office and question him about his choice of hoodie with cutoff sleeves for his sideline apparel?
One of the things that gnawed at Haley almost immediately upon his arrival in the building was how little things became big things, the old making a mountain out of a mole hill. Plus, there was the inability of the organization to move quickly and pull the trigger on various situations. There were constant conversations, back and forth between the offices and Dallas, more meetings and still sometimes a decision couldn’t get made.
For the last two seasons he was the head coach, Haley was one man in the boat with a single oar. There was nobody rowing in the same direction. I don’t buy a lot of conspiracy theories on any subject, but more and more it seems like the team’s unwillingness to spend money on new players going into last year when there were so many possibilities may have had motives other than saving a buck.
As has happened frequently with the powers in charge with the Chiefs, anything that happens even after a person leaves the building is blamed on the absent. The Kansas City Star story on the toxic environment around the team has been blamed on Haley around the bigwigs at team headquarters. Now, there’s talk that the team is not going to pay him the last year of his contract, because they fired him “with cause.” Cause was never a word that Hunt or Pioli used when they announced Haley’s firing on December 12.
Eventually, the Chiefs will pay Haley the money they owe him, even if he has to go to league arbitration and the court house to get the check. It will just be a continuation of the hapless behavior of a franchise that has become an NFL laughingstock. At the Senior Bowl last week there were 800 NFL team employees in Mobile. I didn’t talk to 800 or 400 or even 200. But over five days, I bet I spoke to 100 head coaches, assistant coaches, GMs, front office employees and scouts. Almost to a man, they wanted to know about the Star story. It seems that everyone in the league has read the toxic tale and not a single one of them made a comment to indicate they thought Haley was out of his mind for thinking his office was bugged and his phone tapped. Most of them were not surprised.
If Haley can jump to the stability that is the hallmark of the Rooney family and their operation of the Steelers, it will help wash away the last two years in the toxic soup of the Chiefs organization. In Pittsburgh right now, things are not perfect. Their early departure from the playoffs was not what’s expected each year. The team’s offense has been spotty and has drifted too far to the passing side, with not enough running game. Arians was fired and that has made quarterback Ben Roethlisberger unhappy. It seems like Roethlisberger is continually hurt, because he holds onto the ball so long and takes so many hits. They badly need to rebuild their offensive line, which has had massive injury problems over the last few seasons.
But, compared to what Todd Haley’s had to live with the past two years, it would be a day at the coaching beach, where he could coach and not have to constantly look over his shoulder.

This ^^^^^^

dbolan
02-02-2012, 08:02 AM
I will say this, that although I've interacted personally with and like Clark Hunt...I'm not convinced he has the same dedication and committment that his GM, Scott Pioli does. I hope he does, but I'm not sensing the same depth of passion within him as I did Pioli. Clark is a more reserved personality than Pioli, however, his expressions more 'refined', shall we say. No doubt a result of his wealthy upbrining.

Furthermore, related to appearance of Haley, and the Hunts not approving...the Chiefs franchise has always had a 'dress code', for lack of a better definition, since day one when Lamar founded his franchise. It began with Lamar, not Clark. Lamar expected his staff/players from top to bottom to present a clean, respectable, and professional image. That is nothing new.

Have you ever met or interacted with Haley?

dbolan
02-02-2012, 08:11 AM
This seems so much like it's just become fashionable to bash Pioli and the organization, and so people are piling on.


Who is ultimately making the choices here Dude?

You look back over the history of the Chiefs and tell everyone it was always the coaches fault when success was absent.

How many AFC West banners are flying in Arrowhead?

One thing I will say, undoubtedly, the Chiefs have loyal fans as a whole but the end result, which should be Championships, speaks for itself.

Call it Pioli bashing...Call it organization bashing...Whichever, whatever but the proof is in the pudding.

matthewschiefs
02-02-2012, 03:50 PM
Who is ultimately making the choices here Dude?

You look back over the history of the Chiefs and tell everyone it was always the coaches fault when success was absent.

How many AFC West banners are flying in Arrowhead?

One thing I will say, undoubtedly, the Chiefs have loyal fans as a whole but the end result, which should be Championships, speaks for itself.

Call it Pioli bashing...Call it organization bashing...Whichever, whatever but the proof is in the pudding.

My question to you is this. What is there to bash Pioli about? Pioli wasn't the gm of this team in the bad times before. When he got to KC this team was in really really bad shape. They were coming off a 2 win season. Piloli took over a big job. And while this team still does have some areas of need they are in FAR FAR better shape then they were when he took over. I can't say that I am upset with how things have gone under him so far.

Hayvern
02-02-2012, 03:52 PM
This ^^^^^^

I still would like to ask Haley one question. If all of these things you say were happening the minute you walked into the stadioum, you should have asked better questions before you came on board.

Hunt and Pioli are leading this team, they have the mindset they want for this team, it is their team afterall. If Haley wanted to wear ratty old clothes, he should have asked if that was going to be a problem.

You should never assume anything when going into a new job, and I have no doubt that Hunt and Pioli have a reason that even Gretz does not get. I am not a huge fan of Gretz anyway, but is is evident he was a Haley fan and was angry the man was fired.

I think the biggest mistake that Pioli has made in this organization to date is hiring Haley.

Hayvern
02-02-2012, 04:01 PM
One more thing on all of this. If Haley was so great, why has he not been signed by someone yet? I mean, he has had a small amount of interest, even considered a possibility of returning to Arizona. Pittsburgh interviewed him, the Jets interviewed him, no takers so far.

There are a lot of jobs out there, so maybe Haley is being selective? Not likely, I think it more likely that no one is really willing to put up with his ****.

Bob brings up Belicheks's ratty clothing. When Haley wins as many Super Bowls and play off games as Belichek then maybe he can start looking like a ragamuffin!

okikcfan
02-02-2012, 04:30 PM
One more thing on all of this. If Haley was so great, why has he not been signed by someone yet? I mean, he has had a small amount of interest, even considered a possibility of returning to Arizona. Pittsburgh interviewed him, the Jets interviewed him, no takers so far.

There are a lot of jobs out there, so maybe Haley is being selective? Not likely, I think it more likely that no one is really willing to put up with his ****.

Bob brings up Belicheks's ratty clothing. When Haley wins as many Super Bowls and play off games as Belichek then maybe he can start looking like a ragamuffin!

BaaaBam! :bartsimpson:

chief31
02-02-2012, 05:07 PM
I am not anti-Pioli. He has made mistakes. The biggest, in my opinion, is a failure to work things out with a HC who took a 2-14 team to a division crown in his second year.

And I think Todd Haley has some flaws too. Specifically in his failure to work things out with his teammates and superiors.

But to buy one side of the story is not something I can do.

One is right, and so is the other.

One is wrong, and so is the other.

That has been the case in 99% of the conflicts I have seen in my life. Even when I have thought that I was completely in the right.

You look back on some of the situations you have been in, and realize that you were not as fair as you thought you were. There is almost always a "can't see the forest for the trees" aspect, leading each "side" to believe they have done no wrong.

It is exceptionally rare for one "side" to be completely at fault, while the other is guilt-free.

And, from the little evidence that has been brought out in this case, I am confused as to how anybody has already come to a decision.

And, if you have already made up your mind, I doubt that anything that comes out later will change your position.

matthewschiefs
02-02-2012, 06:09 PM
I am not anti-Pioli. He has made mistakes. The biggest, in my opinion, is a failure to work things out with a HC who took a 2-14 team to a division crown in his second year.

And I think Todd Haley has some flaws too. Specifically in his failure to work things out with his teammates and superiors.

But to buy one side of the story is not something I can do.

One is right, and so is the other.

One is wrong, and so is the other.

That has been the case in 99% of the conflicts I have seen in my life. Even when I have thought that I was completely in the right.

You look back on some of the situations you have been in, and realize that you were not as fair as you thought you were. There is almost always a "can't see the forest for the trees" aspect, leading each "side" to believe they have done no wrong.

It is exceptionally rare for one "side" to be completely at fault, while the other is guilt-free.

And, from the little evidence that has been brought out in this case, I am confused as to how anybody has already come to a decision.

And, if you have already made up your mind, I doubt that anything that comes out later will change your position.

There's an old saying there's 3 sides to every story side A side B and the truth


Well except when you and I argue then well we all know that I'm always right :D

Chiefster
02-03-2012, 04:06 AM
If we had a "Hall of Classics" forum this thread would be that forum's most valued. :lol:

dbolan
02-03-2012, 08:00 AM
One more thing on all of this. If Haley was so great, why has he not been signed by someone yet? I mean, he has had a small amount of interest, even considered a possibility of returning to Arizona. Pittsburgh interviewed him, the Jets interviewed him, no takers so far.

There are a lot of jobs out there, so maybe Haley is being selective? Not likely, I think it more likely that no one is really willing to put up with his ****.

Bob brings up Belicheks's ratty clothing. When Haley wins as many Super Bowls and play off games as Belichek then maybe he can start looking like a ragamuffin!

That can be countered with this:

For the same reason there were not and are any coaches beating down the door to come to KC.

Pioli gets all of the credit for the success in 2010 but Haley gets NONE??? LMAO Ok...

OPLookn
02-03-2012, 11:21 AM
That can be countered with this:

For the same reason there were not and are any coaches beating down the door to come to KC.

Pioli gets all of the credit for the success in 2010 but Haley gets NONE??? LMAO Ok...

And here you go, it's back on Pioli and it's got to be his fault. He was talking about Haley and only Haley. Nothing was said about Pioli or that it wasn't his fault. What he was saying is that if someone is hard to work with you're less likely to hire them. As you've said before you've interviewed people so surely you've had to see this type of person before. Did you go ahead and hire them anyway?

Unless a person is absolutely, hands down the best person for that job they aren't going to be hired. Especially if they're hard to work, things have to be their way or they don't know how to motivate someone. I think that's what we're seeing now with Haley.

dbolan
02-03-2012, 12:51 PM
And here you go, it's back on Pioli and it's got to be his fault. He was talking about Haley and only Haley. Nothing was said about Pioli or that it wasn't his fault. What he was saying is that if someone is hard to work with you're less likely to hire them. As you've said before you've interviewed people so surely you've had to see this type of person before. Did you go ahead and hire them anyway?

Unless a person is absolutely, hands down the best person for that job they aren't going to be hired. Especially if they're hard to work, things have to be their way or they don't know how to motivate someone. I think that's what we're seeing now with Haley.

I NEVER have and NEVER will say it was ALL Pioli's fault.

However, for folks to say it was all Haley's fault is just as much BS as the other.

Hayvern
02-03-2012, 03:48 PM
I NEVER have and NEVER will say it was ALL Pioli's fault.

However, for folks to say it was all Haley's fault is just as much BS as the other.

DUDE, reading and comprehension is your friend, no one is saying it is all Haley's fault. Pioli even has said he has to do better, I think as a basis of where we are starting this conversation is that Haley was not working well with his superiors and could not get it together.

chief31
02-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Perhaps being selective was a good idea. He got the perennial playoff team, with multiple recent Super Bowl appearances to hire him.

That has to be a highly coveted position, OC of The Pittsburgh Steelers.

I like The Steelers, and I hope he has a lot of success there.

But....

Even though I think he may have been done wrong by The Chiefs, I hope he fails as horribly as possible when that benefits The Chiefs.

:lol:

matthewschiefs
02-07-2012, 07:58 PM
Perhaps being selective was a good idea. He got the perennial playoff team, with multiple recent Super Bowl appearances to hire him.

That has to be a highly coveted position, OC of The Pittsburgh Steelers.

I like The Steelers, and I hope he has a lot of success there.

But....

Even though I think he may have been done wrong by The Chiefs, I hope he fails as horribly as possible when that benefits The Chiefs.

:lol:

I think he will be mighty happy with the Steelers. If you listened to him talk even when he was the Chiefs head coach he would always have good things to say about them. I always thought that even if he turned out well in KC and the team wanted and was willing to do things to keep him around that he would leave for the Steelers if there job ever came open. Over all I don't think that things turned out to bad for him at all.

chief31
02-07-2012, 08:09 PM
I think he will be mighty happy with the Steelers. If you listened to him talk even when he was the Chiefs head coach he would always have good things to say about them. I always thought that even if he turned out well in KC and the team wanted and was willing to do things to keep him around that he would leave for the Steelers if there job ever came open. Over all I don't think that things turned out to bad for him at all.

You can't be serious.

You think that, if he had stayed here, and been so successful that The Chiefs were trying hard to retain him, that he would betray his own team for another?

Why?

When does that ever happen?

I mean, wouldn't a guy have to hate everything about his current team to leave the team he created for another?

I think you are just looking for ways to make him out to be evil.

Maybe I am off track here. Does that sort of thing actually happen? Do HCs leave for other teams, when having success with their current team?

I know teams occasionally fire a HC despite their success. But I can't think of any HCs who have betrayed their team under those circumstances.

Anybody?

matthewschiefs
02-07-2012, 08:16 PM
You can't be serious.

You think that, if he had stayed here, and been so successful that The Chiefs were trying hard to retain him, that he would betray his own team for another?

Why?

When does that ever happen?

I mean, wouldn't a guy have to hate everything about his current team to leave the team he created for another?

I think you are just looking for ways to make him out to be evil.

Maybe I am off track here. Does that sort of thing actually happen? Do HCs leave for other teams, when having success with their current team?

I know teams occasionally fire a HC despite their success. But I can't think of any HCs who have betrayed their team under those circumstances.

Anybody?

It's the fact that it was his boyhood team the team he grew up watching the team he was a ballboy with when his father worked for them. It's not just anyteam with him. It would be a chance to go take the job he most likely dreamed of getting growing up. That's why. I didn't say it was a bad thing. Everyone has there "dream job" as for being a head coach in the NFL I think that would be his. Just from hearing him talk about them you could tell they were still a special team to him. If anyone of us grew up with family working for a team and had the chance to one day go lead that team I think we would all take it. That's all there is to that. It wasn't making Haley out to be a bad guy at all.

chief31
02-07-2012, 08:25 PM
It's the fact that it was his boyhood team the team he grew up watching the team he was a ballboy with when his father worked for them. It's not just anyteam with him. It would be a chance to go take the job he most likely dreamed of getting growing up. That's why. I didn't say it was a bad thing. Everyone has there "dream job" as for being a head coach in the NFL I think that would be his. Just from hearing him talk about them you could tell they were still a special team to him. If anyone of us grew up with family working for a team and had the chance to one day go lead that team I think we would all take it. That's all there is to that. It wasn't making Haley out to be a bad guy at all.

Oh.

That does sound fair, when you put it like that. :lol:

But if anybody knows of situations where a HC has left his own successful team for another, I would like to hear about it.

I just don't think I have ever heard of that before.

matthewschiefs
02-07-2012, 08:27 PM
Oh.

That does sound fair, when you put it like that. :lol:

But if anybody knows of situations where a HC has left his own successful team for another, I would like to hear about it.

I just don't think I have ever heard of that before.

The only thing close I can think of is Roy Williams leaving Kansas for UNC. MAN I HATE UNC. And Roy Williams. Left the Kansas Program that he had built for himself and went to coach those horrible tar heels

TopekaRoy
02-08-2012, 01:47 AM
The only thing close I can think of is Roy Williams leaving Kansas for UNC. MAN I HATE UNC. And Roy Williams. Left the Kansas Program that he had built for himself and went to coach those horrible tar heels

What Bob Huggins did to Kansas State was worse. Roy Williams coached the Jayhawks for 15 years and did just about as much as anyone could with them. When the chance to go "home" to North Carolina opened up, it was hard to blame him for going.

Huggins was only at KSU for 2 years and promised he would stay and turn the team around, before bolting for West Virginia. He really betrayed the Wildcat fans.

That's the bad news for Kansas Universities. The good news is that the Jayhawks got Bill Self and the Wildcats got Frank Martin, both excellent coaches, and both schools are probably better off for it.

But we're talking about college Basketball, here, not Professional football. There is a difference.

OPLookn
02-08-2012, 11:01 AM
Oh.

That does sound fair, when you put it like that. :lol:

But if anybody knows of situations where a HC has left his own successful team for another, I would like to hear about it.

I just don't think I have ever heard of that before.

The closest thing I can think of is in college football. Brian Kelly left Cincinnati after going 12-0 in regular season play, the team was ranked #3 and the Notre Dame HC position opened up. He'd always wanted to coach there, of course they hired him and he just left. Didn't even coach Cincy in the bowl game saying he just wanted a clean break. But he kept saying over and over again how he'd always dreamed about ND.

So I'd say it's quite possible that if Haley had been here and was winning that he'd have left for a position with the Steelers if it came open.

Ryfo18
02-08-2012, 11:08 AM
The difference between college and the NFL is that teams are on a level playing field in the NFL, from players to facilities. In college, bigger schools like Notre Dame will attract coaches from lesser schools. By going to Notre Dame Brian Kelly gets:

1.) A lot more money for himself
2.) A lot more money for his program (better facilities, equipment)
3.) The prestige attached to Notre Dame to attract recruits.

There is no comparison between this and the pros really. In all likelihood, a lateral move in the NFL will not provide any of these benefits, except maybe better players. But if you're on a team that has crappy players, chances are your team isn't performing well so another team wouldn't be doing everything they can to get you to move over to them.

OPLookn
02-08-2012, 11:35 AM
The difference between college and the NFL is that teams are on a level playing field in the NFL, from players to facilities. In college, bigger schools like Notre Dame will attract coaches from lesser schools. By going to Notre Dame Brian Kelly gets:

1.) A lot more money for himself
2.) A lot more money for his program (better facilities, equipment)
3.) The prestige attached to Notre Dame to attract recruits.

There is no comparison between this and the pros really. In all likelihood, a lateral move in the NFL will not provide any of these benefits, except maybe better players. But if you're on a team that has crappy players, chances are your team isn't performing well so another team wouldn't be doing everything they can to get you to move over to them.

Yes all of that can be listed but Cincy has continued to be a good program that has been mentioned a whole lot more since Kelly left than ND has. I can't say which team would have paid Kelly more. Sure ND historically has had more money but they've been mid pack for a long time and Cincy has risen to prominence as of late.

Regardless of money, prestige or better facilities Kelly left because he'd always dreamed of coaching at ND. A desire to coach somewhere will happen at any level no matter the difference between the levels. Kelly had also just got Cincy to an undefeated season. I would think that Cincy would have thrown a boat load of money at Kelly to stay.

chief31
02-08-2012, 09:06 PM
Yes all of that can be listed but Cincy has continued to be a good program that has been mentioned a whole lot more since Kelly left than ND has. I can't say which team would have paid Kelly more. Sure ND historically has had more money but they've been mid pack for a long time and Cincy has risen to prominence as of late.

Regardless of money, prestige or better facilities Kelly left because he'd always dreamed of coaching at ND. A desire to coach somewhere will happen at any level no matter the difference between the levels. Kelly had also just got Cincy to an undefeated season. I would think that Cincy would have thrown a boat load of money at Kelly to stay.

Reasonable point made there.

But has it ever happened in The NFL?

Bike
02-09-2012, 10:51 AM
So I'd say it's quite possible that if Haley had been here and was winning that he'd have left for a position with the Steelers if it came open.
We could only be so lucky. But I couldn't see Haley resigning his HC position to take a lesser position on another team.

Chiefster
02-09-2012, 12:20 PM
Just how far down the rabbit hole are we going? :lol:

chief31
02-09-2012, 11:05 PM
Just how far down the rabbit hole are we going? :lol:

Just brought up an interesting concept about a HC leaving a successful team, and I realized that I have never heard of it happening in The NFL.

I mean, it would be a pretty rare thing anyway. But especially in The NFL, I would think.

In college, the notoriety of some schools could be a huge boost to a coaches career options, as far as opening doors to The NFL.

But, in The NFL, there is no higher league to aim for, and notoriety would play a far less significant role in such a decision.

When I saw that idea rolled out for Todd Haley, something in me instantly jumped back, as if the notion were completely far-fetched. I can't help but to be curious if that was just me, or if the notion is truly as unprecedented as it seems.

Look Pal....

Just help me find an example, or HUSH!!!! :lol:

Connie Jo
02-10-2012, 12:22 AM
I still would like to ask Haley one question. If all of these things you say were happening the minute you walked into the stadioum, you should have asked better questions before you came on board.

Hunt and Pioli are leading this team, they have the mindset they want for this team, it is their team afterall. If Haley wanted to wear ratty old clothes, he should have asked if that was going to be a problem.

You should never assume anything when going into a new job, and I have no doubt that Hunt and Pioli have a reason that even Gretz does not get. I am not a huge fan of Gretz anyway, but is is evident he was a Haley fan and was angry the man was fired.

I think the biggest mistake that Pioli has made in this organization to date is hiring Haley.

I agree completely, including the biggest mistake made was hiring Haley in the first place. I've no doubt it is a huge regret on Pioli and Hunts part.

Connie Jo
02-10-2012, 12:23 AM
Have you ever met or interacted with Haley?

Yes sir, I most certainly have. :)

Oh, and I have photo's to back up whomever I've met & interacted with related to the Chiefs franchise, including Haley, Pioli, Hunt, and Donovan. :)

Connie Jo
02-10-2012, 12:37 AM
Perhaps being selective was a good idea. He got the perennial playoff team, with multiple recent Super Bowl appearances to hire him.

That has to be a highly coveted position, OC of The Pittsburgh Steelers.

I like The Steelers, and I hope he has a lot of success there.

But....

Even though I think he may have been done wrong by The Chiefs, I hope he fails as horribly as possible when that benefits The Chiefs.

:lol:

There was never any doubt the Steelers would hire Haley as their OC, considering the ties Haley and his dad both have to the Steelers franchise. I'm happy for him, and wish him only the best, just not against the Chiefs, nor in his vendetta's against the Chiefs franchise, and ultimately it's innocent of wrong doing fanbase.

doobs_05
02-10-2012, 01:31 AM
Just brought up an interesting concept about a HC leaving a successful team, and I realized that I have never heard of it happening in The NFL.

I mean, it would be a pretty rare thing anyway. But especially in The NFL, I would think.

In college, the notoriety of some schools could be a huge boost to a coaches career options, as far as opening doors to The NFL.

But, in The NFL, there is no higher league to aim for, and notoriety would play a far less significant role in such a decision.

When I saw that idea rolled out for Todd Haley, something in me instantly jumped back, as if the notion were completely far-fetched. I can't help but to be curious if that was just me, or if the notion is truly as unprecedented as it seems.

Look Pal....

Just help me find an example, or HUSH!!!! :lol:



What about head coaches leaving NFL for College. I was watching Tosh.0 (show on comedy central with a comedian named Daniel Tosh), and he hates nick Saben(spelling?) because he's a Dolphin fan and Saben left the dolphins to go coach Alabama......I have no clue if this is an example you're looking for because i'm too lazy to read the rest of the thread hahaha

Chiefster
02-10-2012, 05:37 AM
Just brought up an interesting concept about a HC leaving a successful team, and I realized that I have never heard of it happening in The NFL.

I mean, it would be a pretty rare thing anyway. But especially in The NFL, I would think.

In college, the notoriety of some schools could be a huge boost to a coaches career options, as far as opening doors to The NFL.

But, in The NFL, there is no higher league to aim for, and notoriety would play a far less significant role in such a decision.

When I saw that idea rolled out for Todd Haley, something in me instantly jumped back, as if the notion were completely far-fetched. I can't help but to be curious if that was just me, or if the notion is truly as unprecedented as it seems.

Look Pal....

Just help me find an example, or HUSH!!!! :lol:



:lol::lol::lol:

Your right all that has so much to do with Pioli and the joke he's supposed to be. :meow:

dbolan
02-10-2012, 09:57 AM
Yes sir, I most certainly have. :)

Oh, and I have photo's to back up whomever I've met & interacted with related to the Chiefs franchise, including Haley, Pioli, Hunt, and Donovan. :)

Who cares about the photos....LOL

Was he a pr*ck to you? Was he cordial?

chief31
02-11-2012, 04:08 PM
What about head coaches leaving NFL for College. I was watching Tosh.0 (show on comedy central with a comedian named Daniel Tosh), and he hates nick Saben(spelling?) because he's a Dolphin fan and Saben left the dolphins to go coach Alabama......I have no clue if this is an example you're looking for because i'm too lazy to read the rest of the thread hahaha

That's somewhat relative.

Though, I don't think 6-10 puts it in the field of leaving a successful team.

nigeriannightmare
02-12-2012, 11:39 PM
Oh.

That does sound fair, when you put it like that. :lol:

But if anybody knows of situations where a HC has left his own successful team for another, I would like to hear about it.

I just don't think I have ever heard of that before.

George seifert.....left san fran for carolina.

chief31
02-16-2012, 09:50 PM
George seifert.....left san fran for carolina.

He took three years off in between though. If that were not a factor, then Dick Vermiel would be a candidate.

Probably as close as we will get though.

Osage Tribe
02-17-2012, 08:49 AM
I have to agree with the minority group of posters who recognize things being far better today than three years ago.

As far as security, when you think of things in the context of "wins" being worth millions of dollars of unshared revenue to each team... doesn't it make sense that there probably are people out there buying and selling intel on every team? We don't look at Apple or Microsoft as maniacal for the security measures they employ for the very same reasons and benefits.

Last... three years ago everyone was saying that we needed to dump the roster because there was no talent. Today, everyone claims Pioli has brought in nothing and inherited this wealth of talent. Talk about your "flip flop".