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View Full Version : Branden Albert Continuing to Improve



Ryfo18
01-20-2012, 11:12 AM
"Chiefs running backs averaged 5.61 yards per carry to the left side of the offensive line compared to 3.25 going right and 3.02 up the middle. In other words, Chiefs backs had their greatest success behind LT Brandon Albert, who also graded out well as a pass protector in Pro Football Focus' ratings. First-year starting RG Jon Asamoah excelled as a pass-blocker, but has room to grow in the run game. The Chiefs figure to look for an upgrade on Barry Richardson at right tackle."

Source: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4805/branden-albert

toyotapower
01-20-2012, 11:57 AM
I think people have finally come to their senses about albert. The past few offseasons this forum has been littered with posts about replacing him. I think we can safely say he's the last person that should be replaced

figcrostic
01-20-2012, 12:09 PM
I think people have finally come to their senses about albert. The past few offseasons this forum has been littered with posts about replacing him. I think we can safely say he's the last person that should be replaced

Meh he's still a guard playing tackle he's not bad but he gets pummeled against the big boys

okikcfan
01-20-2012, 12:12 PM
Branden Albert we need to keep!

70 chiefsfan70
01-20-2012, 12:41 PM
Albert is definately still underated and misunderstood. He has played his position very well, but as long as Cassel is the qb people here will continue to blame the LT. With a very good QB, Albert would get the credit he deserves.


Even Orton, bad as he is known to be, makes the OL look a whole heck of a lot better. But I'm smart enough to know he is not the answer.


Sad but true.

I'm not a Cassel fan , but I'm certain he will be the starter in 2012. We know we can and will win games if we have a strong run game. I'm ok with that because I don't see a better option on the table.

chief31
01-20-2012, 10:14 PM
I think people have finally come to their senses about albert. The past few offseasons this forum has been littered with posts about replacing him. I think we can safely say he's the last person that should be replaced

Nah. He is the same as he has always been. Good for a stretch, and bad for a stretch.

Excellent run-blocker, but sub-par in pass protection.

PFF is far too friendly to him.

Nobody has wanted Albert to be successful more than me. But he is still not a good LOT.

whackojacko58
01-20-2012, 10:20 PM
I've stuck by albert yea i envy jake long, miss willie roaf but alberts playin good football, if hudson and asamoah keep looking like locks with lilja has atleast two years left in him here. WE NEED A RT bye bye richardson

Ryfo18
01-21-2012, 01:10 PM
Nah. He is the same as he has always been. Good for a stretch, and bad for a stretch.

Excellent run-blocker, but sub-par in pass protection.

PFF is far too friendly to him.

Nobody has wanted Albert to be successful more than me. But he is still not a good LOT.


Why would they pick Albert, of all people, to be friendly to? They evaluate every LT in the league, and just decide to give friendly grades to him?

Everyone thought Okung would be our solution at LT. His pass protection stats:

Sacks: 5
Hits: 3
Pressures: 24

Albert in pass protection:

Sacks: 5
Hits: 6
Pressures: 13


Oh, and Okung only played 12 games (799 snaps for Okung, 1071 for Albert). My question is, would everyone be so critical of Okung had he come in and been our LT? I doubt it, but statistically, he is worse than Branden Albert. AND, he's nowhere near the run blocker that Albert is. Our LT position is fine.

Finally, here are the only LT's that graded out better than Albert in pass protection:

1.) Joe Thomas (CLE)
2.) Andrew Whitworth (CIN)
3.) Jason Peters (PHI)
4.) Duane Brown (HOU)

But you're right, I'm sure PFF chooses to inflate Albert's grades, just because.

Three7s
01-21-2012, 01:35 PM
Why would they pick Albert, of all people, to be friendly to? They evaluate every LT in the league, and just decide to give friendly grades to him?

Everyone thought Okung would be our solution at LT. His pass protection stats:

Sacks: 5
Hits: 3
Pressures: 24

Albert in pass protection:

Sacks: 5
Hits: 6
Pressures: 13


Oh, and Okung only played 12 games (799 snaps for Okung, 1071 for Albert). My question is, would everyone be so critical of Okung had he come in and been our LT? I doubt it, but statistically, he is worse than Branden Albert. AND, he's nowhere near the run blocker that Albert is. Our LT position is fine.

Finally, here are the only LT's that graded out better than Albert in pass protection:

1.) Joe Thomas (CLE)
2.) Andrew Whitworth (CIN)
3.) Jason Peters (PHI)
4.) Duane Brown (HOU)

But you're right, I'm sure PFF chooses to inflate Albert's grades, just because.
That can't be right! Supposedly, Matt Cassel has taken a terrible team to a new level. No way is it that there's actually talent on this team despite the QB!

People that keep saying Matt Cassel is the sole reason for the team's improvement is ridiculous. The reason for improvement is a talented young defense, a finesse run-blocking O-line, and Jamaal Charles. Cassel is simply a benefactor.

If he put the stats in 2009 up that he did in 2010, then I'd revise my tune a bit.

chief31
01-21-2012, 05:22 PM
Why would they pick Albert, of all people, to be friendly to? They evaluate every LT in the league, and just decide to give friendly grades to him?

Everyone thought Okung would be our solution at LT. His pass protection stats:

Sacks: 5
Hits: 3
Pressures: 24

Albert in pass protection:

Sacks: 5
Hits: 6
Pressures: 13


Oh, and Okung only played 12 games (799 snaps for Okung, 1071 for Albert). My question is, would everyone be so critical of Okung had he come in and been our LT? I doubt it, but statistically, he is worse than Branden Albert. AND, he's nowhere near the run blocker that Albert is. Our LT position is fine.

Finally, here are the only LT's that graded out better than Albert in pass protection:

1.) Joe Thomas (CLE)
2.) Andrew Whitworth (CIN)
3.) Jason Peters (PHI)
4.) Duane Brown (HOU)

But you're right, I'm sure PFF chooses to inflate Albert's grades, just because.

I didn't say they showed favoritism to any player.

I think that their methods of compiling stats is too friendly.

They do not include an OT being shoved into the QB's space as anything, and that has been where our pass protection has been weakest.

Pass protection is about time, and space, allowed to your passer.

And, during the first half of the season (Always half of a season) our pass protectors were terrible at holding their ground, and allowing our passer anywhere to step up to throw the ball.

But then, if you were to approach this with any form of civility, then you wouldn't have so much fun with the childish sarcastic display, would you?

There is a reason why The NFL does not keep statistics for O-linemen. Because all of those statistics are based on opinion.

Who allowed the "pressure", the OT, or the OG? Was it a stunt? Which player is responsible for the blitzer? Was the OT supposed to "hand-off" the inside man to the OG, and the OG was not paying attention?

is a False Start penalty rated differently if it is on the first play of the game, than if it were 4th &1 with :25 left in the game?

PFF's opinion of pass protection stats is no better than Joe Schmoe's.

I re-watch every game with emphasis on O-line play. Chiefs' and opponents'. And, while Albert is not bad, he is not good.

Three7s
01-21-2012, 05:55 PM
I didn't say they showed favoritism to any player.

I think that their methods of compiling stats is too friendly.

They do not include an OT being shoved into the QB's space as anything, and that has been where our pass protection has been weakest.

Pass protection is about time, and space, allowed to your passer.

And, during the first half of the season (Always half of a season) our pass protectors were terrible at holding their ground, and allowing our passer anywhere to step up to throw the ball.

But then, if you were to approach this with any form of civility, then you wouldn't have so much fun with the childish sarcastic display, would you?

There is a reason why The NFL does not keep statistics for O-linemen. Because all of those statistics are based on opinion.

Who allowed the "pressure", the OT, or the OG? Was it a stunt? Which player is responsible for the blitzer? Was the OT supposed to "hand-off" the inside man to the OG, and the OG was not paying attention?

is a False Start penalty rated differently if it is on the first play of the game, than if it were 4th &1 with :25 left in the game?

PFF's opinion of pass protection stats is no better than Joe Schmoe's.

I re-watch every game with emphasis on O-line play. Chiefs' and opponents'. And, while Albert is not bad, he is not good.
You know the QB is supposed to help out the O-line with shifts and what not right? I can give that a break due to the amount of time it took the coaches to get the play in, but don't just go blaming the O-line for every little thing.

You say PFF is friendly to the O-line, but they sure weren't friendly to Richardson.

Ryfo18
01-21-2012, 07:24 PM
I think that their methods of compiling stats is too friendly.

They do not include an OT being shoved into the QB's space as anything, and that has been where our pass protection has been weakest.

You have no way of knowing if this statement is true or not. For all we know, it could count as a "pressure".


And, during the first half of the season (Always half of a season) our pass protectors were terrible at holding their ground, and allowing our passer anywhere to step up to throw the ball.

And 4 of Albert's 5 sacks came in the first half of the season. We could also bring into argument how below average Cassel's pocket presence is, but we won't go there for now.


There is a reason why The NFL does not keep statistics for O-linemen. Because all of those statistics are based on opinion.

Who allowed the "pressure", the OT, or the OG? Was it a stunt? Which player is responsible for the blitzer? Was the OT supposed to "hand-off" the inside man to the OG, and the OG was not paying attention?

is a False Start penalty rated differently if it is on the first play of the game, than if it were 4th &1 with :25 left in the game?

PFF's opinion of pass protection stats is no better than Joe Schmoe's.

I re-watch every game with emphasis on O-line play. Chiefs' and opponents'. And, while Albert is not bad, he is not good.

Regarding your false start question, this is from their "How We Grade" section:

"The grading takes into account many things and effectively brings “intelligence” to raw statistics.

For example, a raw stat might tell you a tackle conceded a sack. However, how long did he protect the QB for before he gave it up? Additionally, when did he give it up? If it was within the last two minutes on a potentially game-tying drive, it may be rather more important than when his team is running out the clock in a 30-point blowout." Source: http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

You can choose to ignore the PFF information, it really doesn't matter to me. But when you have some metrics aimed at grading players, and apply those same metrics to every player in the league, I don't think it is just a coincidence that Albert is near the top.

chief31
01-22-2012, 01:03 AM
You have no way of knowing if this statement is true or not. For all we know, it could count as a "pressure".

Oh, it may. But how many inches from the QB counts? Didn't show up in the "How We Grade" section?


And 4 of Albert's 5 sacks came in the first half of the season. We could also bring into argument how below average Cassel's pocket presence is, but we won't go there for now.

Or we could see the obvious trend of Albert's to do well for half of every season, and possibly even include the known tendancy of O-lines to improve with time together.

But, it is just easier to lean everything toward the Pro-Bowler at QB instead.


Regarding your false start question, this is from their "How We Grade" section:

"The grading takes into account many things and effectively brings “intelligence” to raw statistics.

For example, a raw stat might tell you a tackle conceded a sack. However, how long did he protect the QB for before he gave it up? Additionally, when did he give it up? If it was within the last two minutes on a potentially game-tying drive, it may be rather more important than when his team is running out the clock in a 30-point blowout." Source: Grading | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/)

And that is, again, all about the opinion of those producing the numbers.


You can choose to ignore the PFF information, it really doesn't matter to me. But when you have some metrics aimed at grading players, and apply those same metrics to every player in the league, I don't think it is just a coincidence that Albert is near the top.

Just because they have chosen to rate some things higher/lower than others does not, in any way, make their ratings any less opinionated than any other.

And, as stated above, that is why The NFL does not monkey with these statistics, because they include opinion, whereas a TD pass is official. All opinions are left out of it.

Judging O-line play is all about opinion, and the results of the offense, as a whole. The offense, as a whole, was poor, and what I have seen of Albert is the same as every season, where he has done poorly for half of a season, and good for half of a season.

N TX Dave
01-22-2012, 02:06 AM
Just because they have chosen to rate some things higher/lower than others does not, in any way, make their ratings any less opinionated than any other.

And, as stated above, that is why The NFL does not monkey with these statistics, because they include opinion, whereas a TD pass is official. All opinions are left out of it.

Judging O-line play is all about opinion, and the results of the offense, as a whole. The offense, as a whole, was poor, and what I have seen of Albert is the same as every season, where he has done poorly for half of a season, and good for half of a season.

And I know better than these professional writers that came up with this and they are just favoring him because they have a man crush on him.

Besides I say he is no good so that means he is no good end of story.

Ryfo18
01-22-2012, 02:31 AM
Oh, it may. But how many inches from the QB counts? Didn't show up in the "How We Grade" section?

Less inches than 27 other left tackles in the league.


Or we could see the obvious trend of Albert's to do well for half of every season, and possibly even include the known tendancy of O-lines to improve with time together.

But, it is just easier to lean everything toward the Pro-Bowler at QB instead.

Pro-Bowler is an easy argument to make...pro-bowl alternate is is what he really was. If Cassel would have played the second half of the season this year, and put up the numbers he did last season in those last 8 games, he wouldn't have come close to making the pro-bowl.

You think it's magical how the offensive line looked much better once Palko came in? It's not.


And that is, again, all about the opinion of those producing the numbers.

Just because they have chosen to rate some things higher/lower than others does not, in any way, make their ratings any less opinionated than any other.

And, as stated above, that is why The NFL does not monkey with these statistics, because they include opinion, whereas a TD pass is official. All opinions are left out of it.

Judging O-line play is all about opinion, and the results of the offense, as a whole. The offense, as a whole, was poor, and what I have seen of Albert is the same as every season, where he has done poorly for half of a season, and good for half of a season.

And in your opinion, it's that they were much easier on the grading for Albert, than they were for the other 31 left tackles in the league.

The question stands, would you be happier with an oft-injured, more poorly graded Okung...or Branden Albert, who has gotten significantly better with every passing season?

Since you watched every game and graded the O-line play, can you point to the specific games where Albert looked bad in the last half of the season? Is he Willie Roaf? Hell no, that guy is a future hall of famer. But noting that he only gave up 1 sack in the last 8 games, I really want to know why he shouldn't be our LT. Because he was a guard in college? Convenient argument. Did you watch the Chicago game where he made Julius Peppers a non-factor?

I can point to plenty of tackles that have failed and been moved to interior line positions. I think you're reaching now, instead of giving Branden his well deserved respect.

The convenient argument is to discount the people grading EVERY LEFT TACKLE IN THE LEAGUE. How many sacks did you have Albert accounted for when you graded him?

Ryfo18
01-22-2012, 02:32 AM
And I know better than these professional writers that came up with this and they are just favoring him because they have a man crush on him.

Besides I say he is no good so that means he is no good end of story.

You just summed up chief31's argument in far less words than I could. :chiefs:

chief31
01-22-2012, 02:38 AM
And I know better than these professional writers that came up with this and they are just favoring him because they have a man crush on him.

Besides I say he is no good so that means he is no good end of story.

Lighten up.

Their statistics are directly effected by opinion of what actually makes up the final numbers.

I did not say that they are favoring anybody. So pretending like I did is just foolish.

I discount their statistics as being opinion-based, because they are.

I don't put a whole lot of stock in a writer's opinion about football.

Now, it's not that I think that Albert is bad, because I don't. I simply think that he is inconsistent enough that, with our need at ROT, we should look for a draft pick to hopefully out-perform him at LOT, leaving us with a likely top-notch ROT should he fail to beat out Albert.

But I understand how fun it is to fling out sarcasm at an opinion that doesn't exist, isn't it?

chief31
01-22-2012, 02:40 AM
You just summed up chief31's argument in far less words than I could. :chiefs:

No he didn't.

I never said they were favoring any player. I said that their method is favorable to certain instances, and that they are based on opinion, not fact.

Ryfo18
01-22-2012, 02:43 AM
No he didn't.

I never said they were favoring any player. I said that their method is favorable to certain instances, and that they are based on opinion, not fact.

Their method didn't favor him in 2010, or 2009, or 2008 though. I guess he caught a lucky break this year to be graded out better than 27 other left tackles in the league. Lucky Branden.

chief31
01-22-2012, 02:47 AM
Their method didn't favor him in 2010, or 2009, or 2008 though. I guess he caught a lucky break this year to be graded out better than 27 other left tackles in the league. Lucky Branden.

I would almost bet that they make changes to their statistical evaluations every year or so too.

There are so many variables, that it would be an almost never-ending venture to try and perfect the system.

Ryfo18
01-22-2012, 02:49 AM
I would almost bet that they make changes to their statistical evaluations every year or so too.

There are so many variables, that it would be an almost never-ending venture to try and perfect the system.

And said "changes" benefit Branden, so much as to inflate him to the 4th best pass blocker. Now we're on the same page, no reason to argue anymore.

chief31
01-22-2012, 02:58 AM
And said "changes" benefit Branden, so much as to inflate him to the 4th best pass blocker. Now we're on the same page, no reason to argue anymore.

It would be about inconsistency, added to the highly opinion-based "statistics" that they compile.

I like that they do that. It is fun to have different measuring devices for players in, otherwise non-statistical positions.

But it is not even as trust-worthy as purely factual statistics, such as rushing yards. Even those statistics come with the open end of having the opinion of rather those rushing yards were earned by the RB, or by the blocking, the quality of opponents, the offensive scheme, play-calling, weather conditions, etc.

But to add to all of those variables, a whole lot of opinion about what kind of mistake is a good mistake, or a bad one, makes the final "stats" far less credible.

N TX Dave
01-22-2012, 02:19 PM
Lighten up.

Their statistics are directly effected by opinion of what actually makes up the final numbers.

I did not say that they are favoring anybody. So pretending like I did is just foolish.

I discount their statistics as being opinion-based, because they are.

I don't put a whole lot of stock in a writer's opinion about football.

Now, it's not that I think that Albert is bad, because I don't. I simply think that he is inconsistent enough that, with our need at ROT, we should look for a draft pick to hopefully out-perform him at LOT, leaving us with a likely top-notch ROT should he fail to beat out Albert.

But I understand how fun it is to fling out sarcasm at an opinion that doesn't exist, isn't it?

Okay okay I may have put some words in your mouth but that is the impression I get out of your side of the discussion, I also think competition is good any and everywhere but you sure sound like you don't like Albert, now answer his question -

"The question stands, would you be happier with an oft-injured, more poorly graded Okung...or Branden Albert, who has gotten significantly better with every passing season??"

chief31
01-22-2012, 03:01 PM
Okay okay I may have put some words in your mouth but that is the impression I get out of your side of the discussion, I also think competition is good any and everywhere but you sure sound like you don't like Albert, now answer his question -

"The question stands, would you be happier with an oft-injured, more poorly graded Okung...or Branden Albert, who has gotten significantly better with every passing season??"

I would have been far happier with both, which is what we would have had, had we drafted Okung.

And, I don't know if I trade Albert for Okung, due to the injury situation. Albert has his strengths, and health is one of them. Not to mention, experience with the group we have here.

I would hope to change as few faces on the O-line, as possible, so eliminating our longest streak of active starts from the mix does not fit into my plans.

chiefnut
01-23-2012, 10:04 AM
let me throw my 2cents in, Albert has continued to improve each year to the point where he has become an average LT. if we can draft an anchor LT and move Albert to RT or draft an anchor at RT, either would be an acceptable upgrade. right now it is the right side of the O line that is priority so however it is upgraded is irrelevant.

Bike
01-23-2012, 10:52 AM
I'm of the opinion that so goes the OL, so goes the offense. Being that the Chiefs finished in the bottom fifth of the league in combined offense, I'm inclined to say that our offensive line needs help. That being said, I think Albert has room for improvement. A more consistent supporting cast (a good OL is really a team in itself - something that takes some time once the players are in place) is needed here. Consistency in both the coaching staff and players is lacking - but to be expected after the Herm and Haley fiasco's. Here's to a more consistent Albert, and Chiefs as a whole, beginning this next season.

pojote
01-23-2012, 10:55 AM
Albert is nowadays our best O-lineman. Why you would move him to another position or replace him? Maybe I've watched a different season games. When he gave up sacks, were against lighter and quicker players. He needs to be faster, and he is losing some weight this off-season. I hope he can continue to improve his game, but I really want another RT.