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marloweopatchiefs
02-02-2012, 11:07 PM
Dwayne Bowe, Brandon Carr Are The Chiefs 'First Priority' - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/2/2/2767104/dwayne-bowe-brandon-carr-free-agents-kansas-city-chiefs)

Bowe won't be going to san francisco

OPLookn
02-03-2012, 12:11 PM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but since Haley has left it seems to me that more information is coming out of the Chiefs. They obviously aren't giving away the game plans but intentions, wants, needs, etc are being discussed.

70 chiefsfan70
02-03-2012, 03:19 PM
I agree it seems that way, I would say its to try and reassure and calm the fans. Probably has nothing to do with Haley himself.



I just hope they get these stars signed, or at least get one franchised so we can at least get compensated if we loose them. It would be a shame to watch either to walk away with nothing in return.

chief31
02-04-2012, 12:41 AM
Too bad Orton is not in that same category. I would really like to see him here battling with Cassel for the starting gig in 2012.

okikcfan
02-04-2012, 08:29 PM
He could be, ya never know....

matthewschiefs
02-04-2012, 08:32 PM
Too bad Orton is not in that same category. I would really like to see him here battling with Cassel for the starting gig in 2012.

I would to. I think we are going to see someone brought in to compete with Cassel besides Stanzi.

Chiefster
02-05-2012, 01:05 AM
Too bad Orton is not in that same category. I would really like to see him here battling with Cassel for the starting gig in 2012.

...This!

wolfpack
02-05-2012, 12:17 PM
pioli said cassel would have to earn his starting job.yea right. They`ll resign palko and that willbe cassel compition.
Cassels pioli boy so any hope of manning,orton or whoever mightbe a pipe dream.

Jrudi
02-05-2012, 04:34 PM
I would to. I think we are going to see someone brought in to compete with Cassel besides Stanzi.

Ever thought of that guy being Brady Quinn?

I know it sounds crazy, but I did a post on him that basically stated he has never really had a chance to succeed in the NFL yet...

The management in Cleveland was never "all in" on him and never gave him more than 3-4 games at a time before he was either injured and placed on IR, or benched. Plus he didn't have near the talent around him in Cleveland that he would have here in KC.

Crennel Drafted him, Daboll had him for 1 season, and he is still fairly young. We could pay him backup money for a 3 year contract and let him compete....

figcrostic
02-05-2012, 05:23 PM
Too bad Orton is not in that same category. I would really like to see him here battling with Cassel for the starting gig in 2012.

That would be nice, but I'm thinking he's going to try and get a team that believes in him and offers him the starting gig before choosing a team that makes him compete.

figcrostic
02-05-2012, 05:24 PM
Ever thought of that guy being Brady Quinn?

I know it sounds crazy, but I did a post on him that basically stated he has never really had a chance to succeed in the NFL yet...

The management in Cleveland was never "all in" on him and never gave him more than 3-4 games at a time before he was either injured and placed on IR, or benched. Plus he didn't have near the talent around him in Cleveland that he would have here in KC.

Crennel Drafted him, Daboll had him for 1 season, and he is still fairly young. We could pay him backup money for a 3 year contract and let him compete....

Nah I'd rather pick up a qb in the second or 3rd then pick up quinn.

dbolan
02-06-2012, 01:29 PM
Ever thought of that guy being Brady Quinn?

I know it sounds crazy, but I did a post on him that basically stated he has never really had a chance to succeed in the NFL yet...

The management in Cleveland was never "all in" on him and never gave him more than 3-4 games at a time before he was either injured and placed on IR, or benched. Plus he didn't have near the talent around him in Cleveland that he would have here in KC.

Crennel Drafted him, Daboll had him for 1 season, and he is still fairly young. We could pay him backup money for a 3 year contract and let him compete....

Yep.. I read it and agree. Cassel has not had ANYONE on the roster to compete against.

dbolan
02-06-2012, 01:32 PM
Nah I'd rather pick up a qb in the second or 3rd then pick up quinn.

That is basically what they have been doing. What competition would a Rookie give to him?? I think it would be minimal at best.

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 01:46 PM
That is basically what they have been doing. What competition would a Rookie give to him?? I think it would be minimal at best.

That isn't what they have been doing. Palko, Stanzi and Orton...that's what Pioli and company have done. Stanzi is a 5th rounder and was a rookie this year. Palko was a journeyman QB at best and Orton has been the guy that stepped up after Cassel was out for the season. You can't point at Brokie Croyle either. He was drafted in 06 and no one from the coach level up was here when Croyle was drafted. I knew that Brokie was a horrible choice when he was drafted, oh well.

However, I'd much rather throw some money at Orton and tell him if he can beat Cassel out then the starting job is his. I think Orton would beat Cassel out too and they would continue to push each other. It'd be great to have two average QB's constantly pushing each other. If we draft a QB in the 3rd round or higher I think that signals that Pioli is over Cassel and once his contract is up the new guy, who ever that might be (drafted or free agent) will step in.

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 01:53 PM
I know RG3 and Luck have got all the press, but there is a guy who, because he is 5'11 1/2" or 6' depending on who is measuring, will probably be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round. He has far more wins and a higher passer rating for his entire college career than RG3 or Luck. Kellen Moore is the coolest, most calm QB I have ever seen. Even when he was getting the crap kicked out of him by TCU, he never once looked like he was frightened or hurrying passes. Most folks have never seen him play, but I saw all his games this year. Kellen Moore will be a great NFL player and he will be cheap because of his (lack of) size, but will be the best bang for the buck this draft.

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 01:56 PM
p.s. Bowe would not be high on my priority list, but he can play with the best receivers out there. But until he quits taking games off when he's not happy, I wouldn't throw much money at him.

Ryfo18
02-06-2012, 02:14 PM
I know RG3 and Luck have got all the press, but there is a guy who, because he is 5'11 1/2" or 6' depending on who is measuring, will probably be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round. He has far more wins and a higher passer rating for his entire college career than RG3 or Luck. Kellen Moore is the coolest, most calm QB I have ever seen. Even when he was getting the crap kicked out of him by TCU, he never once looked like he was frightened or hurrying passes. Most folks have never seen him play, but I saw all his games this year. Kellen Moore will be a great NFL player and he will be cheap because of his (lack of) size, but will be the best bang for the buck this draft.

I'm sorry, but anyone who has drawn comparisons to Tyler Palko like Moore has, I want to be as far away from my team as possible.

70 chiefsfan70
02-06-2012, 02:24 PM
p.s. Bowe would not be high on my priority list, but he can play with the best receivers out there. But until he quits taking games off when he's not happy, I wouldn't throw much money at him.


There is a whole lot of truth to what you say.

But keep in mind, Bowe feeds off of the Mood, Attitude, and Tempo of the offense in which he is playing in. He has never played to his potential. If we get Cassel some competition, beef up the OL, add a new RB, sign another starting TE, Bowe has no limits. Or we could watch Bowe go to a different team and excel.

If we can only sign one I would sign Carr and franchise Bowe.We should get a extra 1st rounder out of him. We could use that pick to get another WR, but chances are he could not do what Bowe has done for us. But it would save money if thats the issue.

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 02:55 PM
Palko(4 year college career) Comp/Attempts-645/1075, TD's-66, Yards-8343, Int's-25, Rating-141

Moore(4 year college career) Comp/Attempts-1157/1658, TD's-142, Yards-14667, Int's-28, Rating-168

Yeah, I can see the comparison. They both went to college and they both played quarterback.

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 03:19 PM
Palko(4 year college career) Comp/Attempts-645/1075, TD's-66, Yards-8343, Int's-25, Rating-141

Moore(4 year college career) Comp/Attempts-1157/1658, TD's-142, Yards-14667, Int's-28, Rating-168

Yeah, I can see the comparison. They both went to college and they both played quarterback.

That's skewing numbers at it's best right there! He in fact only played three years. Unless you want to call three passes in one game an entire year. He was red shirted in 2003.

Year School Conf Class Pos Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
2002 Pittsburgh Big East FR QB 2 3 66.7 13 4.3 4.3 0 0 103.1
2004 Pittsburgh Big East SO QB 230 409 56.2 3067 7.5 7.9 24 7 135.2
2005 Pittsburgh Big East JR QB 193 341 56.6 2392 7.0 6.8 17 9 126.7
2006 Pittsburgh Big East SR QB 220 322 68.3 2871 8.9 9.2 25 9 163.2
Career Pittsburgh 645 1075 60.0 8343 7.8 7.9 66 25 140.8

So 3067, 2392 and 2871 yards over 3 years...average it out and this would be what his 4 year stats look like.

11106 yards, 88 td's and 33 int's. Granted he doesn't look the best still but the disparity that you were showing isn't there. Palko threw a lot but he also ran when he could where as Moore will stand in the pocket and only run if it's absolutely necessary.

I wouldn't mind giving the kid a look but saying that he's going to be awesome might be a bit much for me.

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 03:24 PM
That's skewing numbers at it's best right there! He in fact only played three years. Unless you want to call three passes in one game an entire year. He was red shirted in 2003.

Year School Conf Class Pos Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
2002 Pittsburgh Big East FR QB 2 3 66.7 13 4.3 4.3 0 0 103.1
2004 Pittsburgh Big East SO QB 230 409 56.2 3067 7.5 7.9 24 7 135.2
2005 Pittsburgh Big East JR QB 193 341 56.6 2392 7.0 6.8 17 9 126.7
2006 Pittsburgh Big East SR QB 220 322 68.3 2871 8.9 9.2 25 9 163.2
Career Pittsburgh 645 1075 60.0 8343 7.8 7.9 66 25 140.8

So 3067, 2392 and 2871 yards over 3 years...average it out and this would be what his 4 year stats look like.

11106 yards, 88 td's and 33 int's. Granted he doesn't look the best still but the disparity that you were showing isn't there. Palko threw a lot but he also ran when he could where as Moore will stand in the pocket and only run if it's absolutely necessary.

I wouldn't mind giving the kid a look but saying that he's going to be awesome might be a bit much for me.

Yes his 3 pass year counts. He was still on the roster and if Palko sucked so bad he wasn't the starter, then ABSOLUTELY that should count against him. Secondly, if comparison's and potential can't be measured with stats, what else would we use then? Should teams only draft by press hype? This is the silliest arguing for arguments sake I have ever witnessed on Chiefscrowd or any other forum.

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Yes his 3 pass year counts. He was still on the roster and if Palko sucked so bad he wasn't the starter, then ABSOLUTELY that should count against him. Secondly, if comparison's and potential can't be measured with stats, what else would we use then? Should teams only draft by press hype? This is the silliest arguing for arguments sake I have ever witnessed on Chiefscrowd or any other forum.

Wow that you want to say that a guy who got in to play his FRESHMAN year should start right off the bat should null and void any of the rest of your comments. Secondly the guy isn't projected to go in the 2nd or even the 3rd. He's projected to go in the 6th or 7th and that's on any mock I've ever seen. Will it go different sure it could, he could be drafted higher or not at all. But to assume that because a guy puts up monster numbers in college that he should be drafted high is by far the worst argument I've heard anywhere. You probably wanted to draft Ryan Leaf too or maybe Jamarcus Russell because the guy lead his team to a national championship.

Counting a freshman year when 3 passes are thrown...give me a break!

:whipping1:

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 03:49 PM
Really? That Palko couldn't earn the starting job as a freshman can't be considered and conversely someone who earns the starting position in his freshman year nullifies my opinion? I'll let your words determine their worth, rather than try to demean them on their merit.

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 03:51 PM
I find it interesting that every time someone disagrees with you, you being the ultimate arbiter of football knowledge, say their opinion is valueless. You really consider yourself to be that much of an authority. How can all those GM's and owners let a pro like you slip by?

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Really? That Palko couldn't earn the starting job as a freshman can't be considered and conversely someone who earns the starting position in his freshman year nullifies my opinion? I'll let your words determine their worth, rather than try to demean them on their merit.

I'm came back with the same attitude that you threw at me. And no it doesn't mean it's thrown out. It means they had a QB that lead them to bowl games and they wanted to keep Palko another year so they red shirted him the very next year. It also means they wanted to give a freshman time to learn the play book. They did it for strategic reasons, not because the guy couldn't play.

As for your words they could have been applied to my post as well.

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 03:59 PM
I find it interesting that every time someone disagrees with you, you being the ultimate arbiter of football knowledge, say their opinion is valueless. You really consider yourself to be that much of an authority. How can all those GM's and owners let a pro like you slip by?

I never said I was, in fact many times after a going back and forth with Chief I find myself agreeing with him. Because we go back and forth. Does it get heated at times sure but we back down, discuss it some more and figure it out. Instead you go right to one of is us right and the other is wrong instead of a differing of opinions and a point to start discussing. As you've proved with your last few posts.

Then it's that I apparently "know everything" and that your opinion means nothing. If that were the case why would I say that I'd be ok with taking a flyer on Moore? If you go back and look I'm agreeing with your assessment that he'd be worth a look...aka taking a flyer on him. Jeesh you get touchy at times!

:meow:

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 04:32 PM
"...should null and void any of the rest of your comments." Kinda hard for me to misconstrue that comment. Anyway, if he does drop to the 5-7th rounds, so much better for the team who gets him. The only negative scouting on him is his size and teams he played against. I think that is a legitimate concern. I think he is a going to be the steal of the decade whoever gets him. My main point is that Moore has a ton of skill upside and the fact that he is being overlooked means he will be a bargain. I am puzzled by the fact that he is the winningest QB in NCAA football history and none of the analysts like him. I watched 8 Stanford games this year and am not seeing the infatuation with Luck. Now I can be all wrong-I honestly thought Cam Newton was going to be a Randal Cunningham reborn. I now think he has the potential to be the best QB in several generations. He is accurate(which he wasn't the best at in college), makes good decisions and can run when all else fails. So I am not going to say Moore is ready to start out of the gate, but his potential is pretty amazing.

Bike
02-06-2012, 04:38 PM
Bowe and Carr are priorities, but not our first priority -

1. OL
2. QB
3. RB
4. Bowe and Carr

JMHO.

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 04:40 PM
"...should null and void any of the rest of your comments." Kinda hard for me to misconstrue that comment. Anyway, if he does drop to the 5-7th rounds, so much better for the team who gets him. The only negative scouting on him is his size and teams he played against. I think that is a legitimate concern. I think he is a going to be the steal of the decade whoever gets him. My main point is that Moore has a ton of skill upside and the fact that he is being overlooked means he will be a bargain. I am puzzled by the fact that he is the winningest QB in NCAA football history and none of the analysts like him. I watched 8 Stanford games this year and am not seeing the infatuation with Luck. Now I can be all wrong-I honestly thought Cam Newton was going to be a Randal Cunningham reborn. I now think he has the potential to be the best QB in several generations. He is accurate(which he wasn't the best at in college), makes good decisions and can run when all else fails. So I am not going to say Moore is ready to start out of the gate, but his potential is pretty amazing.

"Should teams only draft by press hype? This is the silliest arguing for arguments sake I have ever witnessed on Chiefscrowd or any other forum." The same could be said of that. Bygones are bygones and now that we're discussing my comments are below.

:bananen_smilies046:

Honestly I think the reason that he's not being considered higher is because he went to "small" conference school. I don't know how Moore could turn out but I'll agree that at rounds 5-7 he's a steal. Even if he never is a #1 QB I think he has the potential to be a good #2. The thing with Moore is that they had a run game too. So it's not like it was a Houston system of pass, pass some more and the water boy is under 1000 yards in reception so let's get the ball to him on the next pass. I think when the combine comes around and as people look more his stock will rise. I could see him going late in the 3rd...maybe to the bottom of the 5th. Anything past that and if I were a GM I'd be running up to the podium. Moore...*out of breath* we take Kellan Moore!

Cam Newton makes me wonder. He's had a stellar rookie season but I'm thinking he could be a flash in the pan. Time will tell but I just have a feeling about him. I'm sure he'll go on to have pro bowl numbers now just to prove me wrong.

:lol:

Ryfo18
02-06-2012, 04:46 PM
Palko(4 year college career) Comp/Attempts-645/1075, TD's-66, Yards-8343, Int's-25, Rating-141

Moore(4 year college career) Comp/Attempts-1157/1658, TD's-142, Yards-14667, Int's-28, Rating-168

Yeah, I can see the comparison. They both went to college and they both played quarterback.

I don't care what their stats are in comparison. In college they were in two completely different offenses. The comparison is more about their attributes.

"Moore reminds me of current NFL QB and former Senior Bowl participant Tyler Palko. Both have well less than ideal arm strength. And both struggle to get the ball down field."

We Have A Tyler Palko Comparison At The Senior Bowl - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/1/25/2732551/tyler-palko-senior-bowl-2012)

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 04:52 PM
I don't care what their stats are in comparison. In college they were in two completely different offenses. The comparison is more about their attributes.

"Moore reminds me of current NFL QB and former Senior Bowl participant Tyler Palko. Both have well less than ideal arm strength. And both struggle to get the ball down field."

We Have A Tyler Palko Comparison At The Senior Bowl - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/1/25/2732551/tyler-palko-senior-bowl-2012)

I don't really think that's a fair assessment. If everyone starts saying that and his combine isn't good then sure I'd be willing to back down from saying draft him. But it's the intangibles that make a guy great. Montana had a weak arm too but made great decisions with the ball. NO I'm not calling him Montana. I'm simply saying if the guy falls that low I'd be willing to take him with a 5th or lower pick.

Some scout from Denver thought that Tebow was the best thing since sliced bread. The same with Jamarcus and Leaf. Not saying he's any of those or that your opinion isn't valid. Just saying that as you know 5th rounders or lower are luxury picks and I think Moore would be a reasonable gamble.

Ryfo18
02-06-2012, 04:54 PM
I don't really think that's a fair assessment. If everyone starts saying that and his combine isn't good then sure I'd be willing to back down from saying draft him. But it's the intangibles that make a guy great. Montana had a weak arm too but made great decisions with the ball. NO I'm not calling him Montana. I'm simply saying if the guy falls that low I'd be willing to take him with a 5th or lower pick.

Some scout from Denver thought that Tebow was the best thing since sliced bread. The same with Jamarcus and Leaf. Not saying he's any of those or that your opinion isn't valid. Just saying that as you know 5th rounders or lower are luxury picks and I think Moore would be a reasonable gamble.

That's fine, but we already saw how bad Tyler Palko was as a backup (the worst). I really have no desire to bring in someone that draws comparisons to him.

I'm not saying Moore won't pan out, but just about everything I read on him preaches "career backup." Plus, we already have a 5th round quarterback "project" in Stanzi.

OPLookn
02-06-2012, 05:41 PM
That's fine, but we already saw how bad Tyler Palko was as a backup (the worst). I really have no desire to bring in someone that draws comparisons to him.

I'm not saying Moore won't pan out, but just about everything I read on him preaches "career backup." Plus, we already have a 5th round quarterback "project" in Stanzi.

I'm just saying that one scout comparing a guy to Palko doesn't mean he is. I did find it humorous that the article was written from the site of the Senior Bowl in Alabama. I wonder who they compared Croyle too. Yes we do have a project in Stanzi who was a 5th round pick. But bringing in QB competition is good no matter what round they're picked in. Besides who's to say looking down the road if Moore was picked in the 5th that Stanzi or Moore would be the better QB.

Here's my other thought. Now that Cassel has tasted 1st string even if he isn't 1st string do you really see him willingly going back to 2nd string and taking it? I'd see him pulling an Orton and wanting to be traded which means we'd be right back to needing a legit backup. Thankfully I'm not in the GM seat! :smile

:bananen_smilies046:

azchiefsfan
02-06-2012, 09:15 PM
I can see that. I don't agree that he has weak arm strength, but BSU plays a pure short pass, West Coast offense. I'm not saying he is anywhere, now or in the future, near Joe Montana, but lack of long-range throws was what the knock on Joe Montana was...until he won his third Super Bowl. On a side note, I heard 4 commentaters say last night that Mannings two Super Bowls cemented his place in the HOF. If that's the yardstick, Jim Plunkett should have been a first ballot walk-in. I hate the Raiders, but I really think it is a crime that Plunkett and Coach Flores aren't in the HOF.

dbolan
02-07-2012, 08:52 AM
Yes his 3 pass year counts. He was still on the roster and if Palko sucked so bad he wasn't the starter, then ABSOLUTELY that should count against him. Secondly, if comparison's and potential can't be measured with stats, what else would we use then? Should teams only draft by press hype? This is the silliest arguing for arguments sake I have ever witnessed on Chiefscrowd or any other forum.

Nose around a bit more in here...I am sure you will find at least one more.

:lol:

nigeriannightmare
02-07-2012, 02:39 PM
Nose around a bit more in here...I am sure you will find at least one more.

:lol:

U might be the biggest hypocrite i have ever not had the pleasure of meeting. You sir are right behind my man orton on the pot stirring.

dbolan
02-07-2012, 02:48 PM
U might be the biggest hypocrite i have ever not had the pleasure of meeting. You sir are right behind my man orton on the pot stirring.

You are following me again! Shame on you!

That post was meant to be funny Mr. Nightmare! Hence the :lol:

So easy to get you festered up! :D

jap1
02-08-2012, 03:55 AM
Going back to the original topic, Ihope we sign both long term. If we can't sign both, I think it is a bigger priority to keep Bowe. My feeling is that Bowe's production is harder to replace. Good CBs are IMO easier to come by in the draft. They can be found in the 2nd and even 3rd round sometimes. WRs with Bowe's skill set are harder to find and usually are only found in the 1st round.

Yes, Bowe is inconsistent, but I would rather have Bowe than not have him.

Based on that logic, I would consider using the franchise tag on Bowe over Carr. If Bowe gets on he same page with the new offense and the QB he has the potential to have a ridiculously good seaon, especially if Moeaki comes back as a threat and Baldwin develops some more. If he performs as expected, then throw the bank at him next offseason.

That's my 2cents.