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Connie Jo
02-10-2012, 05:02 AM
Peyton Manning's 'arm is a noodle' - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/news/Sports_Minute/28229496#news/Sports_Minute/28229496)

Connie Jo
02-10-2012, 05:18 AM
Also related to the Quarterback fan controversy is the latest from NFL.com, which doesn't list Kansas City among the top 5 teams who will likely need and draft RG3.

NFL.com news: QB-needy teams might have to trade up to get RG3 (http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/09000d5d826c10dd/article/qbneedy-teams-might-have-to-trade-up-to-get-rg3)

Personally...I'm in favor of keeping Cassel, anyway...as I believe he will do fine once having a consistent coaching staff, consistent playbook/playcalling, a stable franchise environment, & improved O-Line...all of which it looks like will occur in 2012.

Roster change isn't beneficial...continuity on roster I believe is critical with winning, and winning consistently. In an article I read recently...the Giants are used an example of what I mean by continuity/consistency among a franchise/team. Here is a quote from that article, which was written by Greg Gabriel, an NFL scout for 29 seasons, including for the Giants from 1985-2001.

"One of the keys to success in the NFL is continuity. The Giants have that. In the last 30 years they have only had five head coaches (Bill Parcells, Ray Handley, Dan Reeves, Jim Fassel and Tom Coughlin). In that same period there have been only three General Managers (George Young, Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese). Three of those five coaches got to Super Bowls and all three of the General Managers got to the big game."

wolfpack
02-10-2012, 11:19 AM
consistent on the playing field on offensive side side of the ball is the QB. To bad we dont have a consistant QB.

matthewschiefs
02-10-2012, 02:08 PM
I have heard conflicting reports on Mannings progress. Chris Mortensen has reported that his throwing is much better then what the noodle arm. I think the Colts side is going to try to get stuff like this Peytons side is going to get the other way. The truth is somewhere in the middle

dbolan
02-10-2012, 04:42 PM
He will come back and make many eat crow. Ye Shall See

nigeriannightmare
02-10-2012, 05:38 PM
He will come back and make many eat crow. Ye Shall See

Joe Montana had 2 solid yrs......

whackojacko58
02-10-2012, 08:43 PM
I have heard conflicting reports on Mannings progress. Chris Mortensen has reported that his throwing is much better then what the noodle arm. I think the Colts side is going to try to get stuff like this Peytons side is going to get the other way. The truth is somewhere in the middle

the ones who want him say hes good the ones who don't want him say hes bad, id agree in the middle wouldn't bet against him

azchiefsfan
02-11-2012, 07:47 PM
Joe Montana had 2 solid yrs......


Joe Montana never had 2 ruptured discs and rods installed to stabilize his spine. If he comes back he is more stupid than he looks.

okikcfan
02-11-2012, 07:53 PM
Joe Montana never had 2 ruptured discs and rods installed to stabilize his spine. If he comes back he is more stupid than he looks.

It would be highly unlikely they put rod's in his neck for 2 disc's. This would be more of a bracket shaped somewhat like an hour glass but wider in the middle with 4 large screw's. Just sayin.

okikcfan
02-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Again I might point out it is not the 2 ruptured discs that are the problem, it is the nerve damage caused from the surgery. The ruptured discs should heal nicely, the nerve damage could very well be a long term problem.

azchiefsfan
02-12-2012, 10:35 AM
They showed the xray on ESPN a couple months back; it might have just been a demonstration xray and not his. Amyway, what they showed was the standard 2 aligning rods and 6 screws. I have 2 discs in my L4-L5 that can attest to the fact that they never heal. They can be replaced or stabilized, but they don't heal. I have been crippled and using a cane since I was 35. So I have 1st hand knowledge. If they didn't replace the discs, then the rods would be inserted to keep the pressure off them or they would collapse again. He is, not just stupid, he is mentally ill to risk a big hit.

figcrostic
02-12-2012, 11:08 AM
They showed the xray on ESPN a couple months back; it might have just been a demonstration xray and not his. Amyway, what they showed was the standard 2 aligning rods and 6 screws. I have 2 discs in my L4-L5 that can attest to the fact that they never heal. They can be replaced or stabilized, but they don't heal. I have been crippled and using a cane since I was 35. So I have 1st hand knowledge. If they didn't replace the discs, then the rods would be inserted to keep the pressure off them or they would collapse again. He is, not just stupid, he is mentally ill to risk a big hit.

Completely agree thanks for the insight

70 chiefsfan70
02-12-2012, 05:51 PM
They showed the xray on ESPN a couple months back; it might have just been a demonstration xray and not his. Amyway, what they showed was the standard 2 aligning rods and 6 screws. I have 2 discs in my L4-L5 that can attest to the fact that they never heal. They can be replaced or stabilized, but they don't heal. I have been crippled and using a cane since I was 35. So I have 1st hand knowledge. If they didn't replace the discs, then the rods would be inserted to keep the pressure off them or they would collapse again. He is, not just stupid, he is mentally ill to risk a big hit.


I kinda felt the same way.

okikcfan
02-12-2012, 07:13 PM
Tho there is a big difference in the lumbar like yours and the T1 to T6 area of the neck as in Mannings the results could very well be the same. Now I'm not aware of the area in which he has had the surgery but I can tell you the injury itself is not so much the problem. If in fact they installed rods, it should hold up rather well but the odds increase after and neck or back injury to have a domino effect and moving to the next disc and so on. The bad part from what I have heard on Payton's injury is the nerve damage. damage in this area can effect his throwing, his arm strength and his grip on the ball. My advise to Paton is broadcasting the game on Sundays...

azchiefsfan
02-13-2012, 03:55 PM
Charles Barkley was on ESPN this morning. He said he had a similar neck injury and surgery. He said, "Peyton is insane to take another snap in the NFL. The risk of paralysis is too high. I think Payton Manning should retire." The main danger of paralysis is not the discs crushing and the neck breaking. It is in the screws being torn loose and puncturing the spine. This is the main reason I have chosen to live with the pain and disability of my injury. Can you imagine Peyton getting hit by Terrel Suggs at full speed? The risks are so high, I get sick to my stomach thinking of him going out on the field. He is the greatest quarterback of this generation, he has a Super Bowl. He has nothing more to prove. Though I would love to see him work his magic again, it is far too risky for such a great athlete. He needs to hang up his cleats and retire as the great player he is, not be remembered for going out on the field and being crippled for life. Just ask Darryl Stingley if football was worth the price-and he was healthy.

okikcfan
02-13-2012, 08:59 PM
If you have ever seen these screws they are much bigger and longer the one would think. It would take a hell of a blow to rip these screws out but if it did happen, the disc's they are attached to would be completely destroyed. They would have to be replaced with cadaver disc's or titanium replacements and the damage done to the spinal cord, well, it would not be pretty and could result in death if those said screws tore into the spinal cord....

okikcfan
02-13-2012, 09:01 PM
As I said before, it is not the injury itself or the repair that is the problem. It's the damage already done to the nerve's.

TopekaRoy
02-13-2012, 10:10 PM
The injury alone is enough reason for him to retire, even though his doctors say there is no increased risk of injury. (I don't believe them.)

I just don't want to see him go out and play like crap after being such an amazing career. It shouldn't taint his legacy, but he would be remembered as a player who took a ton of money to play when he was past his prime and had every reason to retire.

That's the thing about great NFL football players---The very thing that makes them great, that competitiveness and drive to be the best is the same thing that won't let them walk away from the game when it is time to do so.

The best thing he could do now is move to the broadcasting booth or into coaching. He is a sure-thing first ballot Hall of Famer. He has made boatloads of money and will continue to do so with his endorsements for MasterCard and Sony. He doesn't need to play the game anymore.

Rub some dirt on it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8kMrLx6_aQ

jap1
02-14-2012, 03:05 AM
A couple things about the surgery. Most likely he had a procedure called ACDF (anterior cervical discectomy and fusion). This is pretty much standard procedure nowadays as it has fewer complications. When they do an anterior approach (going in from the front of the neck) they do not use rods, they usually connect the two vertebrae that are of concern by a flat plate. Rods are only used in the posterior (from the back of the neck) approach because they have to cut through certain parts of the vertebrae that connect to the vertebrae that are above and below.

The screws they use are relatively large and hefty. However,in the anterior approach they will never come near the spinal cord (unless the surgeon is an idiot and uses screws that are over an inch too long). If the hardware were to fail, it would not affect the spinal cord unless the whole vertebrae, including the thickest part of the bone, were to somehow shatter.

People have regularly survive car crashes with no damage related specifically to the surgery they had. The problem comes in the damage that has already been done, which is to the nerves as okikcfan has pointed out. You usually do this kind of surgery because there has been nerve damage. Usually we tell patients that the surgery will likely not get rid of the pain, but will stop the loss of strength/sensation resulting from pinched nerves. Usually we tell patients that they should not expect a significant return of their strength/sensation. The surgery is to stem the tide, not repair the damage. Some patients will regenerate the nerves, but that is a long process.

Nerves usually grow back at a rate of 1mm/day. So it could take significant amount of time for the nerves to reach his triceps from his neck (this is what is reported to be giving him problems).

My source for information is that I am a surgeon, and have done quite a few of these surgeries and taken care of many people before and after surgery.

Here is a link to Wikipedia that explains the Surgery: Anterior cervical discectomy and fusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cervical_discectomy_and_fusion)

Just wanted to make sure the right information was out there.

TopekaRoy
02-14-2012, 04:47 AM
Here is a link to Wikipedia that explains the Surgery: Anterior cervical discectomy and fusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cervical_discectomy_and_fusion)

Quoted to reveal link. (Hey Coach, when ya gonna fix that!?)

Thanks for the info jap1. That is very helpful.

KCCF
02-14-2012, 05:47 AM
As I said before, it is not the injury itself or the repair that is the problem. It's the damage already done to the nerve's.

Are you kidding? Of course its the injury itself.

GarH
02-14-2012, 03:57 PM
I'll be very surprised if he doesn't retire before regular season starts.

AkChief49
02-14-2012, 10:59 PM
It would be great to have a guy like Manning....but let's face it, he's done. Easily in the top 5 of all time at his position(if he gets to play more, that will rise)he has had a remarkable career. Love him, hate him, he is/was one of the great, true "field generals".

I've got a ton of respect for Peyton Manning. (Unlike Horse face Elway) He took the challenge of turning around a franchise.(Elway cried and threatened to go to baseball if the Colts picked him). Manning threatened to kick their a$$(for the next 15 years) if they did not pick him.
Whatever happens I hope it's for the best.

bricooper78
02-14-2012, 11:03 PM
I hope he doesn't get hurt again.

This means I hope he just retires. I'd hate to see something bad happen to him.

chiefnut
02-17-2012, 09:34 AM
Joe Montana never had 2 ruptured discs and rods installed to stabilize his spine. If he comes back he is more stupid than he looks.


he did however have surgery to repair a herniated disc in his back and was not expected to ever play again

jap1
02-17-2012, 05:35 PM
he did however have surgery to repair a herniated disc in his back and was not expected to ever play again

BTW ... herniated disc and ruptured disc mean exactly the same thing. Herniated is the medical term, ruptured is what it is commonly referred to by non-medically trained persons. Much like in medicine there are no "broken" bones. Everything is called fractures, whether the bone is shattered (compound fracture) or there is a hairline crack (stress fracture), Fracture is the correct medical terminology.

whackojacko58
02-17-2012, 09:32 PM
so weathers been great last couple days :>

chief31
02-17-2012, 09:54 PM
I think Peyton would be an ideal fit with JC.

The type of offense Manning runs leaves the running game as the compliment, and change-of-pace.

And, to have a guy as quick as JC in a "surprise" kind of role would be exceptionally effective, I think.

You get defenses on their heels, delaying their reaction to running plays, and Charles will be behind the defense before they even figure out that Peyton doesn't have the football.

I think Charles would do better in that role than even an Adrian Peterson could.

It is a pipe-dream. But this offense could become a complete nightmare to defend, if Manning were at the helm.

There is just no way that defenses could be prepared for a running play if he were on the field.

AussieChiefsFan
02-17-2012, 09:57 PM
I think Peyton would be an ideal fit with JC.

The type of offense Manning runs leaves the running game as the compliment, and change-of-pace.

And, to have a guy as quick as JC in a "surprise" kind of role would be exceptionally effective, I think.

You get defenses on their heels, delaying their reaction to running plays, and Charles will be behind the defense before they even figure out that Peyton doesn't have the football.

I think Charles would do better in that role than even an Adrian Peterson could.

It is a pipe-dream. But this offense could become a complete nightmare to defend, if Manning were at the helm.

There is just no way that defenses could be prepared for a running play if he were on the field.
I agree!

jap1
02-18-2012, 12:05 AM
I think Peyton would be an ideal fit with JC.

The type of offense Manning runs leaves the running game as the compliment, and change-of-pace.

And, to have a guy as quick as JC in a "surprise" kind of role would be exceptionally effective, I think.

You get defenses on their heels, delaying their reaction to running plays, and Charles will be behind the defense before they even figure out that Peyton doesn't have the football.

I think Charles would do better in that role than even an Adrian Peterson could.

It is a pipe-dream. But this offense could become a complete nightmare to defend, if Manning were at the helm.

There is just no way that defenses could be prepared for a running play if he were on the field.

Never really thought of it this way, but JC=Marshall Faulk, but maybe better. That is if he comes back fully. However, I am waiting to make judgement on whether we should go after Peyton until I hear that his strength in his triceps has fully recovered.

whackojacko58
02-18-2012, 12:58 AM
Never really thought of it this way, but JC=Marshall Faulk, but maybe better. That is if he comes back fully. However, I am waiting to make judgement on whether we should go after Peyton until I hear that his strength in his triceps has fully recovered.

:mel3:

TopekaRoy
02-18-2012, 04:45 AM
I think Peyton would be an ideal fit with JC.

The type of offense Manning runs leaves the running game as the compliment, and change-of-pace.

And, to have a guy as quick as JC in a "surprise" kind of role would be exceptionally effective, I think.

You get defenses on their heels, delaying their reaction to running plays, and Charles will be behind the defense before they even figure out that Peyton doesn't have the football.

I think Charles would do better in that role than even an Adrian Peterson could.

It is a pipe-dream. But this offense could become a complete nightmare to defend, if Manning were at the helm.

There is just no way that defenses could be prepared for a running play if he were on the field.

That makes perfect sense, but only if Manning's arm fully recovers and at this point that doesn't look likely.

My concern is that if Peyton can't throw the ball over 20 yards than defenses will be able to sit on the short routes and play closer to the line of scrimmage which would actually make it harder to run the ball.

Of course, one of the reasons Manning has been so good is that he gets rid of the ball so quickly, but if he doesn't have any "zip" on the ball, it will give the defenses just a hair more time to react and that could be a big problem.

I would be 100% in favor of picking up Manning if his recovery was going better or if we knew he would be back to full strength by August. It just seems like too much of a risk right now.

We don't have to have an elite QB (although it would certainly be nice to) for this team to be successful and Manning definitely would not be a "long term" solution. What if he suffers a season ending injury in game 3 or 4? (I know, it could happen to any QB.) Then we are back to square one with Cassel starting (if we didn't release him) and no quality back-up.

chiefnut
02-18-2012, 08:43 AM
i will give you the best reason for getting Peyton,i think he would make an awsome QB coach end eventualy offensive coordinator and he is likely to go to what ever team gives him a chance now or retires with. just hinking ahead,

TopekaRoy
02-18-2012, 01:00 PM
i will give you the best reason for getting Peyton,i think he would make an awsome QB coach end eventualy offensive coordinator and he is likely to go to what ever team gives him a chance now or retires with. just hinking ahead,

What makes you think Peyton even wants to coach? Has he ever said so?

Just because a player is a great QB, doesn't mean he will be a great coach. I went and looked at the coaching success of former great QBs.

Joe Montana - Wait, he never coached.
Dan Marino - Neither did he. He WAS Senior Vice Presiddent of Football Operations for the Miami Dolphins ... for 3 weeks.
Johnny Unitas - Never coached, became color commentator for CBS.
Bart Starr - QB coach in 1972. Coached QB Scott Hunter (remember him?). As head coach for Packers. for 9 years, compiled record of 52-76-1. The only season he made the playoffs was the strike shortened season when the Packers went 5-3-1. Every other year the Packers were .500 or less.
Steve Young - Never coached.
Fran Tarkenton - Also never coached. Hosted That's Incredible and worked part time for Monday Night Football.
Roger Staubach - Never coached.
Brett Favre - Not yet. I'm STILL not fully convinced he's retired. :lol:
John Elway - Never coached. How's he doing as Executive Vice President of Football Operations for the Broncos?
Len Dawson - Never coached. Became Sports Director at KMBC Channel 9 in Kansas City.
Dan Fouts - Never coached. Commentator for NFL on CBS.
Warren Moon - Never coached. Broadcasts Seahawks games.
Terry Bradshaw - He's HILARIOUS! But no, no coaching experience.

I could go on, but the talent pool is getting pretty thin at this point. In fact, the only ex-quarterback I can think of with success as a coach is Jim Harbaugh, and he is far from elite.

Most Great GBs don't become coaches. Many of them do go into broadcasting, though.

Maybe Manning does want to be a coach and maybe he would be great at it. But is it worth giving him what would amount to $20,000,000+ signing bonus? QB coaches don't get that kind of money even if their last name is Manning.

dbolan
02-20-2012, 10:54 AM
On top of all of that....Why would he want to be a QB coach in KC??

I dont mean that in a "bad" way but just sayin....