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TopekaRoy
02-27-2012, 05:44 PM
Let's suppose we do sign Manning, this year. What do you think is a reasonable contract, given the circumstances, and what do you think he would agree to? Here is my thinking:

3 yr deal:
$10 million signing bonus.
6 million per year salary
Additional $500,000 for each game he sarts.

Total (max): 3yrs/$52 million

This would guarantee him $16 million up front, even if he never plays a snap.
If he starts every game, he gets $14 million per year ($17.33 prorated against the cap).
He would take home $24 million his first year if he starts every game.

This would protect the Chiefs if it doesn't work out and Manning would be well paid if it does, but not nearly as much as his deal with the Colts would have paid him. If he can't play, we cut him the first year and save $36 million (assuming he doesn't start any games).

Do you think that would be enough to get him and do you think he would take it?

Bike
02-27-2012, 06:31 PM
It would have to be an incentive based contract due to the seriousness of his past injuries. Sorry - no guarantees or signing cash for that reason. If he plays injury-free his first year here and shows he can take a hit and keep on tickin', give him his 16 mil and guarantee his contract for the next couple years. JMHO!

OPLookn
02-27-2012, 06:50 PM
Let's suppose we do sign Manning, this year. What do you think is a reasonable contract, given the circumstances, and what do you think he would agree to? Here is my thinking:

3 yr deal:
$10 million signing bonus.
6 million per year salary
Additional $500,000 for each game he sarts.

Total (max): 3yrs/$52 million

This would guarantee him $16 million up front, even if he never plays a snap.
If he starts every game, he gets $14 million per year ($17.33 prorated against the cap).
He would take home $24 million his first year if he starts every game.

This would protect the Chiefs if it doesn't work out and Manning would be well paid if it does, but not nearly as much as his deal with the Colts would have paid him. If he can't play, we cut him the first year and save $36 million (assuming he doesn't start any games).

Do you think that would be enough to get him and do you think he would take it?

I like the idea of tying a bonus to every game he's in. But I think I'd like to tie it to him playing a percentage of the game. Say a minimum of 50% of the game unless we're in the playoffs early and want to save him. Then it's a minimum of a quarter or the first few drives...whatever.

Signing bonus is a good idea but I'd change it to a 3 million per year signing bonus. That way say he comes in and gets hurt or his play has declined. We buffer ourselves from him getting hurt, not playing to his former potential or whatever.

My deal would be similar but different #'s basically.

2 yr deal (he'll be 36 by then and more than likely with all his injuries adding up headed down hill):
- 3 mil signing bonus
- 6 mil per year roster bonus
- Additional $500,000 for playing a minimum of 50% of the offensive drives. If we've secured a playoff spot early a minimum of one drive per game.
- 5 mil per year salary (max of 5 mil guaranteed)

This way we're only out 8 million (3 signing + 5 guaranteed) if he can't make the roster or can't play. Actually, I'm not sure if the preseason games count for getting a paycheck but I don't think they do. So we're out 14 million (3 signing, 6 roster, 5 guaranteed) if he gets to the regular season without getting hurt and 22 million in the first year if he meets the minimum playing time.

For the second year if he doesn't play up to standards we can cut bait with him and if he does well then he's making good money.

Total 2 year contract details: 41 million with only 8 million guaranteed. If I'm Pioli I point out that Peyton is 34 years old, moving to a new team, new system, just came off a one year hiatus and major surgery was the cause of that. I guarantee almost nothing save if he's playing he's making good money. Most of Indy's contract with Peyton were roster and option bonuses.

TopekaRoy
02-27-2012, 07:47 PM
Total 2 year contract details: 41 million with only 8 million guaranteed. If I'm Pioli I point out that Peyton is 34 years old, moving to a new team, new system, just came off a one year hiatus and major surgery was the cause of that. I guarantee almost nothing save if he's playing he's making good money. Most of Indy's contract with Peyton were roster and option bonuses.
That sounds great. You went into a little more detail than I did with it. Your plan would do a better job of protecting the Chiefs interests, but remember - it's not just a "take it or leave it" deal with Peyton. Other teams will be trying to sign him, too. Do you think that would be enough to get him (or is my deal too high)?

If it's not about the money, I think KC is absolutely the most attractive place for him to play, from his perspective. But what will other (more desperate) teams try to throw at him?

Bike
02-27-2012, 07:53 PM
That sounds great. You went into a little more detail than I did with it. Your plan would do a better job of protecting the Chiefs interests, but remember - it's not just a "take it or leave it" deal with Peyton. Other teams will be trying to sign him, too. Do you think that would be enough to get him (or is my deal too high)?

If it's not about the money, I think KC is absolutely the most attractive place for him to play, from his perspective. But what will other (more desperate) teams try to throw at him?
No doubt. With owners like Dan Snyder out there throwing money like peanuts, it would come down to what Manning wants. I'm guessing that he is pretty much set financially, and KC + Romeo would be a fantastic fit.

KCCF
02-27-2012, 08:55 PM
No thanks on anything Manning. Would be a miracle if he's the same petting.

jap1
02-27-2012, 08:58 PM
No doubt. With owners like Dan Snyder out there throwing money like peanuts, it would come down to what Manning wants. I'm guessing that he is pretty much set financially, and KC + Romeo would be a fantastic fit.

Who knows, maybe he squadered all his money in gambling debts and when all the TV commercials and SNL gigs dried up, he is hard up for $$$. I hope thats not the case, but who knows.

JPPT1974
02-27-2012, 09:04 PM
Who knows where Manning will end up? As Cassel is ready to be back in uniform.

TecmoNightmare
03-01-2012, 06:31 AM
I don't know really, but I think a team is going to pay a lot for Manning.

AussieChiefsFan
03-01-2012, 08:39 AM
He said he's willing to sign a performance based contract. So if he get's injured again (obviously I'd feel bad about his long term health if it's serious) it won't impact us as much money wise.

dbolan
03-01-2012, 08:47 AM
All I have to add to this is:

Should the Chiefs, or any other team sign him, HE will dead set on making something great happen just to rub it in the Colts face.

With our defense on the rise and the possible addition of line help and a WR and another RB, he is probably drooling to come to the Chiefs.

TopekaRoy
03-01-2012, 04:23 PM
He said he's willing to sign a performance based contract. So if he get's injured again (obviously I'd feel bad about his long term health if it's serious) it won't impact us as much money wise.

He says that, but his agent says he is looking for a certain amount of guaranteed money. That's understandable. Agents are supposed to try and get their client the best possible deal. But even if Peyton is sincere about that (and I have no reason to doubt him) don't you think he will go to the team that offers him the best contract? Unless he gets two or three offers that are very similar, of course.

If we want him, our offer will have to be better than everyone else's. With our cap space, we are in a very good position, should we decide to pursue him, but we will still have to make sacrifices elsewhere. I think the deals that OPLookn and I suggested are competitive without being too risky.

That's what this thread is about. It's not just "what will Peyton accept?" It's also "what will other teams be willing to offer?"

TecmoNightmare
03-01-2012, 05:40 PM
While Manning's a hot commodity I hate to bust anyone's bubble, but he hasn't played in a year, and we don't really know yet if that neck injury is going to slow him down.

He's already began to show his age slowing him down a bit. When the Colts were all banged up on injuries in 2010 and missing their starters, and even when they had some of them, he was still showing signs. Game against New England, 3 INTs, against San Diego (missing some starters) threw 4 INTs, OT game against the Dallas Cowboys, he threw 4 INT's (Missing almost all his starters in that one)

I'm not trying to take anything away from Manning, but with that lineup of wide receivers, and the TE Dallas Clark, they also deserve some credit for his success, if he threw all those picks without them.

I really feel like the Colts are screwing him though. That owner wants Luck to come out and start immediately, thinking he is the real deal, but if you resign Manning, you draft Luck and put him on the bench for a few years before a future HoF and he has a better way of learning. The 49ers proved that when they held Steve Young behind Montana for a few years, and then the Packers holding Rodgers on the bench behind Favre until it was time.

AussieChiefsFan
03-01-2012, 09:18 PM
He says that, but his agent says he is looking for a certain amount of guaranteed money. That's understandable. Agents are supposed to try and get their client the best possible deal. But even if Peyton is sincere about that (and I have no reason to doubt him) don't you think he will go to the team that offers him the best contract? Unless he gets two or three offers that are very similar, of course.

If we want him, our offer will have to be better than everyone else's. With our cap space, we are in a very good position, should we decide to pursue him, but we will still have to make sacrifices elsewhere. I think the deals that OPLookn and I suggested are competitive without being too risky.

That's what this thread is about. It's not just "what will Peyton accept?" It's also "what will other teams be willing to offer?"
Obviously money is still a factor, but we DO have a dcent amount of cap space. I was just saying he won't cost as much if he doesnt perform, but the chance he plays well is high.

GarH
03-02-2012, 12:00 AM
He's going to want his contract guaranteed and he will get it from some team.

okikcfan
03-02-2012, 12:13 AM
Here's the thing, Manning will get cut next week but will not be ready to show what he can fully do just yet. So how long does a team sit and wait? Of course a lot will have to do with the interview process which hey, it's Peyton Manning, I'm hoping he will be up front and honest. I can only assume it will be awhile before he can be ready to show his full ability.

TopekaRoy
03-02-2012, 12:45 AM
Here's the thing, Manning will get cut next week but will not be ready to show what he can fully do just yet. So how long does a team sit and wait? ...

And that is exactly the problem. You can't wait for him to get healthy because another team will snatch him up. You will have to sign him before he has recovered and cross your fingers.

And the reports on his progress are all over the map.

He has hit a plateau and is not getting any better.

Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports reports that “people close” [to] Peyton Manning [say he] will be unable to resume his career after his progress has hit a plateau.

Cole writes that Manning’s nerves in his arm are not healing as fast as doctors believed they would which has left him with limited velocity when throwing the ball. (source (http://nfltraderumors.co/peyton-mannings-recovery-hit-a-plateau/))

He's coming along just fine.

“It’s marked (improvement) from where he was back in September,” Polian said. “He threw it accurately, he threw it with a good, tight spiral, and he threw it with velocity.

“Generally, he looked like a pretty confident quarterback out there.” (source (http://www.nflpassers.com/lombardi-manning-cant-throw-polien-manning-can-throw/))

He can't throw the ball.

“I think it’s unrealistic to assume (he can return). He can’t throw the ball,” Lombardi said. “I’ve talked to people who’ve caught the ball for him. He can’t throw the ball to his left. He can’t throw the ball across his body, because he doesn’t feel it. People who catch the ball for him say he doesn’t really have velocity on the ball yet.” (source (http://www.nflpassers.com/lombardi-manning-cant-throw-polien-manning-can-throw/))

I guess people will believe whoever they want to believe, but I would prefer to have more of a consensus on his condition before I take a chance on him, and I don't think we will get that in time.

okikcfan
03-02-2012, 09:18 AM
So to me, he's not really worth the time or the trouble. Let's say KC sign's him and is unable to play at the start of the season. All that time is lost. Lost opportunities to have another QB to compete with Cassel. I really don't see us going after Manning, will we look at him? I'm sure we will. RG3, The cost could hurt us over the next couple of years but yes I would take him and hope for a really good FA. Long term I feel Flynn would be a much better investment then Manning and I know many here would not agree. Manning is a short term fix as well as a high risk.

AkChief49
03-02-2012, 09:33 AM
I don't know really, but I think a team is going to pay a lot for Manning.
If Washington gets in the race we and everyone else will lose the bidding war. I'm still leery of the fact that he can still play. Time will tell.

dbolan
03-02-2012, 09:50 AM
Why doesn't someone ask Peyton Mannning about his progress? Unless he is trying to milk some $$$$ out of some team, he would be the likely source to give an answer in which someone (he, himself) would be accountable for.

Canada
03-02-2012, 10:26 AM
Why doesn't someone ask Peyton Mannning about his progress? Unless he is trying to milk some $$$$ out of some team, he would be the likely source to give an answer in which someone (he, himself) would be accountable for.
If teams start talking to him now its tampering.

dbolan
03-02-2012, 10:40 AM
If teams start talking to him now its tampering.

Really? lol

It does not have to be a "team" to ask the questions. Say, maybe an interview with Bob Costas or another sports personality.

Eydugstr
03-02-2012, 11:12 AM
Let's suppose we do sign Manning, this year. What do you think is a reasonable contract, given the circumstances, and what do you think he would agree to? Here is my thinking:

3 yr deal:
$10 million signing bonus.
6 million per year salary
Additional $500,000 for each game he sarts.

Total (max): 3yrs/$52 million

This would guarantee him $16 million up front, even if he never plays a snap.
If he starts every game, he gets $14 million per year ($17.33 prorated against the cap).
He would take home $24 million his first year if he starts every game.

This would protect the Chiefs if it doesn't work out and Manning would be well paid if it does, but not nearly as much as his deal with the Colts would have paid him. If he can't play, we cut him the first year and save $36 million (assuming he doesn't start any games).

Do you think that would be enough to get him and do you think he would take it?

Money-wise, that would work out well for Peyton...But for the Chiefs?...

Okay, if signing Peyton became a MUST...here's what I'd change. The "money upfront" (16 million)....I'd change that to 6 million guaranteed upfront if he signs, but gets an additional 10 million automatically if the Chiefs win a playoff game at home. The Chiefs could offset the hit with the extra revenue from the playoff game.

If Peyton is truly in this for more championships, he'd sign it. If he didn't, that'd be saying something, too. Good luck and good health to wherever he goes.

:chiefs:

OPLookn
03-02-2012, 12:04 PM
I've never bought into the hype anytime anyone says "for a limited time only!". It's like those car commercials that say four grand extra off but only for this weekend! You can't bargain with a place good enough in a weekend to offset the four grand. A good deal is a good deal and 99 times out of a 100 there isn't a timeline associated with it.

I hope the Chiefs take time to do due diligence...to a point but please don't buy into the hype. People, corporations and teams over pay when they feel they have to get something now.

TopekaRoy
03-02-2012, 12:55 PM
Money-wise, that would work out well for Peyton...But for the Chiefs?...

Okay, if signing Peyton became a MUST...here's what I'd change. The "money upfront" (16 million)....I'd change that to 6 million guaranteed upfront if he signs, but gets an additional 10 million automatically if the Chiefs win a playoff game at home. The Chiefs could offset the hit with the extra revenue from the playoff game.

If Peyton is truly in this for more championships, he'd sign it. If he didn't, that'd be saying something, too. Good luck and good health to wherever he goes.

:chiefs:

I don't think that would be a good enough offer to get him. He might be ok with it, but I'm sure another team would offer him more upfront/guaranteed money than that. And, IF he is healthy, he deserves it.

chief31
03-02-2012, 08:56 PM
I've never bought into the hype anytime anyone says "for a limited time only!". It's like those car commercials that say four grand extra off but only for this weekend! You can't bargain with a place good enough in a weekend to offset the four grand. A good deal is a good deal and 99 times out of a 100 there isn't a timeline associated with it.

I hope the Chiefs take time to do due diligence...to a point but please don't buy into the hype. People, corporations and teams over pay when they feel they have to get something now.

I agree with you, in principle here. But there is no sales pitch to this. The only motivation for selling the lemon would be Peyton trying to rob some team, and I find that to be a very likely prospect.

And there is not a lot full of Peyton Manning's here. There is one. And there is only one time in his career where a team will have a chance to acquire that one, since draft day.

Nobody needs to pressure this sale. Everybody knows the terms.

TopekaRoy
03-02-2012, 11:41 PM
I agree with you, in principle here. But there is no sales pitch to this. The only motivation for selling the lemon would be Peyton trying to rob some team, and I find that to be a very likely prospect.

And there is not a lot full of Peyton Manning's here. There is one. And there is only one time in his career where a team will have a chance to acquire that one, since draft day.

Nobody needs to pressure this sale. Everybody knows the terms.

Agreed. This is not like getting offered a great deal on a Ferrari. It's more like being invited to an auction for a one-of-a-kind Picasso.

Only with Manning's current condition, I have another analogy that I think fits as well.

It's like that cable show where everyone gets 30 seconds to see what is inside a storage locker and then it is auctioned off to the highest bidder!

TopekaRoy
03-02-2012, 11:56 PM
I know this would never really happen, but I have an idea how Peyton could become the most respected athlete of all time.

After he is released from the Colts he could say. "Look. It's no secret that I am not 100%, yet, but I fully expect to make a complete recovery, so here is what I am going to do:

"Everyone who is interested in signing me is welcome to submit an offer, but I promise you that I won't make a decision until after June 1. At that time you will have an opportunity to evaluate my progress, and if you wish to rescind your offer --- or sweeten it --- you may do so."

This would give Manning nearly another 90 days to continue to improve, and, if he does, his value would only go up. Teams that are interested in him would be able to make a more informed decision, and wouldn't be gambling nearly as much.

The only downside for Manning would be that if he doesn't continue to improve, his value would go way down. But he doesn't need the money; he just wants to win another Super Bowl. If he truly believes that he can play again, he shouldn't have any problem doing this.

What do you think?

Edit to add: I thought of some serious problems with this idea, right after I hit "post reply." But I will wait to hear from you before I share my thoughts. :smile

Figgsywoo
03-03-2012, 06:57 AM
If what in the press is to be believed and it ends up being an all-out bidding war, I think we should step back and sign someone who is guaranteed to challenge Cassel in every game this season.

Sure, Manning is a top quality QB (or at least has been), but paying over the odds for someone not certain to play could have a detrimental affect on the team.

So I guess it depends as to where he's at physically (do you have medical tests done before signing players over here?), how much his agent is saying other teams are offering and could we find a suitable challenger for Cassel for substantially less money.

I'm not averse with amounts players get paid, so excuse me if I'm being a little naive.

AkChief49
03-03-2012, 09:02 AM
Video appears to show Peyton Manning throwing well | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/03/video-appears-to-show-peyton-manning-throwing-well/)

Hmmmm.. So opening bid just jumped?

AussieChiefsFan
03-03-2012, 09:10 AM
Video appears to show Peyton Manning throwing well | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/03/video-appears-to-show-peyton-manning-throwing-well/)

Hmmmm.. So opening bid just jumped?

I saw this on facebook too.

If it IS in fact Manning, then maybe all the people doubting his arm strength will simmer down a bit.

#58ChiefsFan
03-03-2012, 01:16 PM
I saw this on facebook too.

If it IS in fact Manning, then maybe all the people doubting his arm strength will simmer down a bit.

They'll simmer down about the same time the oil analysts cool it on raising fuel prices. The media loves this story on a Tebow level. :efpge:

chiefnut
03-08-2012, 10:18 AM
how about;
$1 mil signing bonus
$500,000 each game started/played
$1 mil for 1st round playoff started/played
$1 mil for 1st round playoff victory
$2 mil for 2nd round playoff started/played
$1 mil for 2nd round playoff victory
$3 mil for afc championship game
$1 mil for afc championship victory
$4 mil for super bowl
$3 mil for super bowl victory

$25 mil total...just what the colts would have paid him

Ryfo18
03-09-2012, 11:34 AM
Doctor evil- One Million Dollars - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DJtHL3NV1o)

ctchiefsfan
03-09-2012, 01:48 PM
First let me say that I am not in or out of the "Get Manning" crowd. I am just a lifelong Chiefs fan and want to see us sweep the AFC West, win the division, win some playoff games and hopefully the Super Bowl. :chiefs:

That said, I remember the Montana era fondly and would be willing to see the Chiefs risk some serious kerching on Manning so long as a major portion of the money was based on performance.

I have no interest in Manning if he wants a huge guaranteed contract.....and I don't believe he does.

I'm sure there will be a lot of considerations that will go into Manning's decision some of which are....

1) I think he really wants another Super Bowl and will only sign with a team where he thinks that is a realistic possibility.

2) I think he would prefer to play in the AFC and certainly has no interest in playing in the NFC East due to his Brother being in NY.

3) I think he would rather play in a dome or if in an uncovered stadium then in a warmer climate.

4) If he proves to be that "missing piece" for a team and gets them to the AFC Championship or the Superbowl he is going to want a BIG PAYDAY.....something approaching what he would have gotten with the Colts if they had not released him.

5) He is still going to want some pretty good guaranteed money so that if he signs with a team and their offensive weapons get decimated by injuries (like we did last year) he still makes good money even if he doesn't achieve major playoff success.

So with all that said, I think the Chiefs have a lot of the non-financial things that he wants. We've got items 1 & 2 covered. Items # 4 & 5 we have the cap room to give him if management is willing. Where we are lacking is item # 3. But at least we are not way up North in the serious cold-country.

All in all, I think the Chiefs can get Manning if they want him.

I like all the performance based contracts that have been suggested, but I think our initial approach to Manning shouldn't be a firm offer. Rather I think we should say something like this to him/his agent......

"We have a MAX of about $20-$25 mill per year we can spend to bring you and/or other players/positions you would like to have around you to KC and we're willing to work within that number to get you here. Naturally, any money we spend bringing other players in leaves less money we can pay you. So what kind of package would make you want to come to KC?"

If he really cares about winning another Super Bowl, then maybe there are some players/positions he thinks are especially important for him to be able to succeed and our asking him about that might make us more attractive as a potential landing spot.

We brought in Marcus Allen and a few others when we brought in Montana and I think it would be smart to offer to do the same for Manning.

Being realistic, there are teams that are going to outbid us on a purely money basis, so I think we should make an effort to find out what the "intangible" factors are that would make the Chiefs most attractive to Manning.

If there are other player/positions he'd want addressed, then we enlist him to help us land those players by contacting them. If Manning really want a certain player or two, then I think the chances are good they will want to go where he does--whether it is by FA or trade.

All in all, I think that if management really wants him they should talk to him about what will make him happiest in KC rather than just how much money he wants. After all, this all goes back to item # 1--Manning really wanting to win another Super Bowl.

If that is Manning's primary concern then I think we should show him that we are every bit as serious about winning a Super Bowl as he is.

#58ChiefsFan
03-09-2012, 06:45 PM
According to warpaint illustrated the offer was 34 mil to sign. Read elsewhere it was a multi year deal. Don't know the validity of that but it's the first numbers I've seen.

#58ChiefsFan
03-09-2012, 06:49 PM
CT for #3 Peyton said when he was drafted he'd rather play outdoors where football was meant to be played. Granted that was in 98. I said a lot of stuff then I wouldn't want now...

AussieChiefsFan
03-09-2012, 09:11 PM
Dont you guys realize this is as close as we will ever come to winning a SB? Dont you realize we are a good QB away from competing for a super bowl, and might i add that a great QB is incredibly hard to come by, that is why we need manning

Exactly. Having Manning would give us a REAL chance at a Super Bowl!

TopekaRoy
03-10-2012, 12:08 AM
Dont you guys realize this is as close as we will ever come to winning a SB?

No, it's not.


Exactly. Having Manning would give us a REAL chance at a Super Bowl!

So would a lot of other QB's. Manning has only won been in one Super Bowl in 12 years. The other 11 years two other QBs went to the Super Bowl.

AussieChiefsFan
03-10-2012, 12:13 AM
So would a lot of other QB's. Manning has only won been in one Super Bowl in 12 years. The other 11 years two other QBs went to the Super Bowl.

Think about it. The colts have had bad defenses and running games quite a lot but Manning managed to make them have good seasons. Imagine what he could do with a team with a great rushing attack and a rising Defense!

TopekaRoy
03-10-2012, 12:36 AM
Think about it. The colts have had bad defenses and running games quite a lot but Manning managed to make them have good seasons. Imagine what he could do with a team with a great rushing attack and a rising Defense!

No question, he would help our team if he is healthy. Right now he is not and we don't know if he ever will be. And if we get Manning, in two or three years we will still need a QB. With our defense, a healthy offense and some upgrades on the O-line we can compete for a Super Bowl with a number of QB's, not just with (a healthy) Manning.

AussieChiefsFan
03-10-2012, 12:41 AM
No question, he would help our team if he is healthy. Right now he is not and we don't know if he ever will be. And if we get Manning, in two or three years we will still need a QB. With our defense, a healthy offense and some upgrades on the O-line we can compete for a Super Bowl with a number of QB's, not just with (a healthy) Manning.

But he world also be a mentor and a great influence on other players. And how often does a chance like this come along? To get one of the best QBs of all time? not very often.

TopekaRoy
03-10-2012, 12:46 AM
But he world also be a mentor and a great influence on other players. And how often does a chance like this come along? To get one of the best QBs of all time? not very often.

About once every 10-15 years? (Joe Montana).

AussieChiefsFan
03-10-2012, 12:48 AM
About once every 10-15 years? (Joe Montana).

I thought you were gonna bring that up.:D

We got lucky with these. They dont happen very often.

AkChief49
03-10-2012, 09:12 PM
No, it's not.



So would a lot of other QB's. Manning has only won been in one Super Bowl in 12 years. The other 11 years two other QBs went to the Super Bowl.
Manning has been to two Superbowls and he is 1-1. His brother is 2-0. ouch!



Did anyone know that the Colts at one time where named the Dallas Texans? (Says that on Wikipedia but it will not load the article)

dbolan
03-13-2012, 10:11 AM
ONLY 2? lol.


Only 2 with a crummy defense...Darn! lol