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Ryfo18
03-09-2012, 12:14 PM
In his third year, he's starting to turn some heads.

From the article:

When the Kansas City Chiefs selected Tyson Jackson with the third overall pick of the 2009 draft, they didnít exactly get an immediate return on their investment. In fact, as a rookie, Jackson had one of the worst years youíre likely to see from any defensive player. He didnít make defensive stops, got no pressure, and you get the sense he would have been benched early in the season but for his draft stock. Year 2 saw him miss time injured before bouncing back with a slightly below average year, but nothing to suggest heíd then turn into one of the premier run-defending 3-4 ends in the league as he did in 2011.

A testament to coaching and patience, Jackson led all 3-4 ends by registering a defensive stop on 10.6% of all running plays he was in forĖno mean feat since only the Cardinalsí defensive ends played more snaps in this regard than him. The Chiefs donít get much pass rush from their 5-techniques, but with Glenn Dorsey in sixth place on this list, you get an idea of what both men bring to the table. Maybe you want more from Top 5 picks, but theyíre getting something from them.

2011 Run Stop Percentage: 3-4 Defensive Ends | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/09/2011-run-stop-percentage-3-4-defensive-ends/)

pojote
03-09-2012, 12:44 PM
Even being that good, I think he will become a cap casualty next off-season. Can his contract be changed?

OPLookn
03-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Even being that good, I think he will become a cap casualty next off-season. Can his contract be changed?

Yes, they can restructure a players contract and that could be of benefit to both parties. Jackson even with a stellar year won't get the kind of contract he got when he got drafted. He's due 14 million and change next year.

Unless I'm mistaken of course. But I'm pretty sure that you can always redo a players contract. Just so long as any guaranteed money is brought forward.

70 chiefsfan70
03-09-2012, 12:57 PM
I would not call them "Jackson Haters", just uninformed don't wanna see the truth, kind of people. Most fans do not understand the true requirement of a 3-4 DE. Every one wants sacks, knockdowns, and hurries.

Most of us were very unhappy and surprised by the GM's and coaches choice to draft Jackson, when he was expected to be there at 12 to 20th pick, me included. But he has stepped up and is playing well. We are fortunate to have both Dorsey and Jackson. Dorsey is entering his final year on his contract and I've seen lots of reports that say he will not resign with the Chiefs. I would love to see us sign him longterm,before this season starts.

OPLookn
03-09-2012, 01:09 PM
I would not call them "Jackson Haters", just uninformed don't wanna see the truth, kind of people. Most fans do not understand the true requirement of a 3-4 DE. Every one wants sacks, knockdowns, and hurries.

Most of us were very unhappy and surprised by the GM's and coaches choice to draft Jackson, when he was expected to be there at 12 to 20th pick, me included. But he has stepped up and is playing well. We are fortunate to have both Dorsey and Jackson. Dorsey is entering his final year on his contract and I've seen lots of reports that say he will not resign with the Chiefs. I would love to see us sign him longterm,before this season starts.

I haven't heard any rumblings about Dorsey being unhappy or wanting to go anywhere new. Where are some of these reports? I'm not calling bs, I'm curious as to what reports are saying that.

:bananen_smilies046:

jap1
03-09-2012, 03:56 PM
In his third year, he's starting to turn some heads.

From the article:

When the Kansas City Chiefs selected Tyson Jackson with the third overall pick of the 2009 draft, they didn’t exactly get an immediate return on their investment. In fact, as a rookie, Jackson had one of the worst years you’re likely to see from any defensive player. He didn’t make defensive stops, got no pressure, and you get the sense he would have been benched early in the season but for his draft stock. Year 2 saw him miss time injured before bouncing back with a slightly below average year, but nothing to suggest he’d then turn into one of the premier run-defending 3-4 ends in the league as he did in 2011.

A testament to coaching and patience, Jackson led all 3-4 ends by registering a defensive stop on 10.6% of all running plays he was in for–no mean feat since only the Cardinals’ defensive ends played more snaps in this regard than him. The Chiefs don’t get much pass rush from their 5-techniques, but with Glenn Dorsey in sixth place on this list, you get an idea of what both men bring to the table. Maybe you want more from Top 5 picks, but they’re getting something from them.

2011 Run Stop Percentage: 3-4 Defensive Ends | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/09/2011-run-stop-percentage-3-4-defensive-ends/)

We keep posting stuff like this, but people still lump TJ in with Barry Richardson as useless dead weight and compare him to Ryan Sims and other draft failures. I just dont think some people will ever get it.

OPLookn
03-09-2012, 04:18 PM
Great, so we picked someone third overall who can't rush the passer and then can only contribute to half of whatever rushing plays the offense runs (Seeing that he is on only one side of the field). The fuss with jackson is with the third pick you should be getting a franchise type pass rusher or other position, even with the "Top 3/4 run stopping DE" we still ranked i believe 15th in rushing YPC, that isnt good. Would you have taken Tyson Jackson with the first overall pick? Because we werent that far off, I know i sure wouldnt

We get it, he was drafted to high. No one here is ever going to say otherwise. But you say he's only on one side of the field but then point to a team statistic (15th in rushing YPC). If that's what it was to the left side of the field alone I'd be shocked. Jackson is turning into a good DE and after missing most of his 2nd season he's finally starting to "get it". Shocking that it's about the same time last year that the Dorsey people stopped complaining about Dorsey's lack of production...wow the 3 year rule does generally hold true.

We didn't draft any DLine guys to rush the passer, we drafted guys that will demand double teams and will hold their ground which Jackson has been doing.

Canada
03-09-2012, 05:07 PM
We get it, he was drafted to high. No one here is ever going to say otherwise. But you say he's only on one side of the field but then point to a team statistic (15th in rushing YPC). If that's what it was to the left side of the field alone I'd be shocked. Jackson is turning into a good DE and after missing most of his 2nd season he's finally starting to "get it". Shocking that it's about the same time last year that the Dorsey people stopped complaining about Dorsey's lack of production...wow the 3 year rule does generally hold true.

We didn't draft any DLine guys to rush the passer, we drafted guys that will demand double teams and will hold their ground which Jackson has been doing.We were awful against the run when they drafted Jackson. A run stopper was out biggest need in the draft that year and that is exactly what we drafted. He is doing exactly what he is supposed to do. The only reason people get bent outta shape about them reaching is because of the money involved. If they had the new rookie wage scale it would not matter nearly as much.

chief31
03-09-2012, 06:21 PM
The fuss with jackson is with the third pick you should be getting a franchise type pass rusher or other position,

But that has not been your "fuss with Jackson", now has it?

#58ChiefsFan
03-09-2012, 06:54 PM
Great, so we picked someone third overall who can't rush the passer and then can only contribute to half of whatever rushing plays the offense runs (Seeing that he is on only one side of the field). The fuss with jackson is with the third pick you should be getting a franchise type pass rusher or other position, even with the "Top 3/4 run stopping DE" we still ranked i believe 15th in rushing YPC, that isnt good. Would you have taken Tyson Jackson with the first overall pick? Because we werent that far off, I know i sure wouldnt

On cue.

#58ChiefsFan
03-09-2012, 09:05 PM
Tall order for sure. I'd sure miss MMO though, if it does happen you gotta ride someones a$$ or it wont be the same.:chiefs:

Jrudi
03-09-2012, 10:08 PM
two thoughts..

First, about Drafting Tyson #3 overall...

1st. Pioli wanted a safe pick, high character, soild football player that could handle the money involved with a high pick. He even stated the DAY AFTER HE DRAFTED JACKSON, that he felt Jackson may never have the big stats that most look for, BUT he is the type of player that will be the foundation of us making the switch to a 3-4 Defense and allow other players around him to excel (a la Tamba Hali, and DJ)

2nd- Pioli aslo said he was attempting to trade back, but this was before the rookie wage scale was in place and top 5 picks were harder to get rid of because of the large contracts that handcuffed organizations. Pioli's plan was to trade back to around 8-13 (which is where Jackson was projected to go) the trade offers never materialized, so they went with the safe pick in Jackson, as they would have if they were to trade back

3rd- who else would you have rather had @ #3? Mark Sanchez? really? I wanted Arron Curry and I'm glad we didn't go that route...Andre Smith?? don't here much talk about him being a top LOT today do we?? Raji was the most impactful player in the 1st round, and he hasn't picked until 9, which is close to where we wanted to trade back to...the 09' draft produced little as a whole, and I think we are lucky have one of the few players from that draft that has made a difference to thier team.

On to another topic... haha

Did anyone notice that Jackson (359) and Dorsey (367) also played the 3rd and 4th most run snaps than any other 3-4 DE's this year (behind only the Cardinals DE's)

and also ranked 1st (TJ: 38 stops, 45 tackles) and 2nd (Dorsey:32 stops, 39 tackles) in TOTAL stops and solo tackles for all 3-4 DE's in the NFL?

Not too bad for a couple of DE's that are "Crappy"

Ryfo18
03-09-2012, 11:22 PM
Even being that good, I think he will become a cap casualty next off-season. Can his contract be changed?

I honestly wasn't aware his contraact was so ridiculous in these last two years. If they don't restructure, I'm pretty sure he would be cut before the 2013 season...$15M of a cap hit.


3rd- who else would you have rather had @ #3? Mark Sanchez? really? I wanted Arron Curry and I'm glad we didn't go that route...Andre Smith?? don't here much talk about him being a top LOT today do we?? Raji was the most impactful player in the 1st round, and he hasn't picked until 9, which is close to where we wanted to trade back to...the 09' draft produced little as a whole, and I think we are lucky have one of the few players from that draft that has made a difference to thier team.

I too remember being big time on the Curry bandwagon. That dude was getting a ton of hype at the time. THANKFULLY, Pioli and company saw past that. Curry is in his second home now (with the Faiders).

Raji had a very good sophomore season, but regressed A LOT last season. Now that all is said and done, Jackson is finally becoming (and will continue to be) a productive asset.

Three7s
03-10-2012, 02:39 AM
He also looked past all pro's and franchise players brian orakpo and bj raji, but if he gets manning im willing to forgive him for that dismal 09 draft
Hey everyone, want to see the definition of ignorant? You're looking at it.

Canada
03-10-2012, 10:55 AM
Great, so we picked someone third overall who can't rush the passer and then can only contribute to half of whatever rushing plays the offense runs (Seeing that he is on only one side of the field). The fuss with jackson is with the third pick you should be getting a franchise type pass rusher or other position, even with the "Top 3/4 run stopping DE" we still ranked i believe 15th in rushing YPC, that isnt good. Would you have taken Tyson Jackson with the first overall pick? Because we werent that far off, I know i sure wouldnt
What DE is on both sides of the field?

70 chiefsfan70
03-10-2012, 01:42 PM
What DE is on both sides of the field?


A really FAST one!!!!!


Not a fact, just my quess.:lol:

nigeriannightmare
03-10-2012, 02:59 PM
Ok, I guess pioli wasnt being ignorant when he traded our second pick for matt cassel or our third round draft pick alex magee who we cut? Or our 4th pick donald washington? The whole 09 draft was screwed up

Matt cassel and mike vrabel who did what he was supposed t9 whilehe was here.

And what part of the 2009 draft was not great is so hard for u to get. Orakpo is a 4-3 guy and raji had a bad year and i mean bad. Seriously my 2 yr old understands logic.

Canada
03-10-2012, 04:09 PM
Ok, I guess pioli wasnt being ignorant when he traded our second pick for matt cassel or our third round draft pick alex magee who we cut? Or our 4th pick donald washington? The whole 09 draft was screwed up
Wait...you mean Pioli and his staff did not hit EVERY nail on the head when they were brought into a situation late in the offseason? you mean they had a team that desperately needed an answer for Huard and Croyle and he was stupid for getting a kid from NE that had won 10 games? He is an idiot because we could not stop the run and he took a run stopping DE instead of a 4-3 DE to rush the passer? Sure some of the late round guys did not make the team...that happens everywhere, ever year. Do the math...theres only 53 guys on the team and they draft 9 or 10 every offseason, guys are not going to make the roster. Honestly, its like you will complain about every move. Im just glad u are not our GM or we would be picking in the top 5 every season...but at least you would get it right. Its a shame...you are so smart, yet you dont have a job in the NFL...wierd. They must be out to get you.

KnokOut
03-10-2012, 06:14 PM
Raji is a beast, I agree.

Can't stand Cassel to be honest. I just don't see him as a guy who can take us where we want to be. Bummed RG3 is out of the question, but that price was a bit steep.

nigeriannightmare
03-10-2012, 06:17 PM
Yeah Cassel has been great, that is why he has our organization salivating for manning.

Yeah Raji absolutely horrible thats why he went to the pro bowl this year, you saw it with your own eyes when we played them here and he absolutely dominated the offensive line stopping us in the goal line.

Orakpo is a 4/3 so was Tamba Hali but he has converted nicely. Seriously, my 3 year old son could understand this logic.

Orakpo playing on the over powering redskins who are no where near contending and then the packers who finished dead last in team defense and oh yeah how many sacks did the packers have against us, which is a stat u continue to elude too, absolutely zero not even a knockdown. so if by dominating u mean by allowung is 100 yards on the ground and 300 in the air.....did u even watch that gamr raji didnt do ****e. ur right though ur comment does sound like the logic of a three yr old.

Three7s
03-10-2012, 09:30 PM
Raji stuffed us in the goaline many times when we played GB.

The point is wiht the 3rd pick you must get a franchise type player, another pass rusher and nose tackle for us would of been perfect. Tyson jackson is not a franchise type player, he is a role player and drafting third you must look to get an impact type franchise guy. Raji and orakpo are both franchise nosetackle and pass rusher
Raji isn't a "franchise NT". He got into the probowl because the voters went by reputation. He was one of the worst NTs of 2011 according to PFF.

Pro Bowl: The Undeserving | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/28/pro-bowl-the-undeserving/)

I know you'll ignore it since it's obvious you won't abandon your stubbornness.

TopekaRoy
03-11-2012, 12:12 AM
Raji isn't a "franchise NT". He got into the probowl because the voters went by reputation. He was one of the worst NTs of 2011 according to PFF.

Pro Bowl: The Undeserving | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/28/pro-bowl-the-undeserving/)

I know you'll ignore it since it's obvious you won't abandon your stubbornness.

Wait a minute! Are you telling me that the Pro-Bowl is nothing more than a popularity contest? Now I have lost faith in everything.

On the other hand, that would explain Brandon Meriweather's presence the year before last ...

Ryfo18
03-11-2012, 01:05 AM
Wait a minute! Are you telling me that the Pro-Bowl is nothing more than a popularity contest? Now I have lost faith in everything.

On the other hand, that would explain Brandon Meriweather's presence the year before last ...

The hardest Pro Bowl to make is your first one...After that, the fans that vote know your name.

See Flowers, Brandon.

TopekaRoy
03-11-2012, 04:23 AM
The hardest Pro Bowl to make is your first one...After that, the fans that vote know your name.

See Flowers, Brandon.

:bananen_smilies046:

Yep. And if you were a highly touted draft pick you have a good head start. See Raji, B. J. :lol:

azchiefsfan
03-11-2012, 11:02 AM
Pardon my lateness to the party. I have never thought of Jackson as a bust. I also think Richardson in a 4-3 would be a big success instead of looking over-powered so often. While the defense looked really good the last 1/3 of the season last year, I still am wondering why it took 2 1/2 seasons for Crennel to figure out how to implement the 3-4 D here. Further, I am left to wonder why guys like Richardson have been left to twist in the wind and we have let offenses walk all over us so often. I like what Crennel did during the 4 game win streak and the last few games of the season, but doesn't anyone else wonder why it took so long and was so hit and miss? And I think Richardson has more left in the tank, but he is a square peg in our 3-4 circle hole and that's a shame. I really like the big guy.

Three7s
03-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Pardon my lateness to the party. I have never thought of Jackson as a bust. I also think Richardson in a 4-3 would be a big success instead of looking over-powered so often. While the defense looked really good the last 1/3 of the season last year, I still am wondering why it took 2 1/2 seasons for Crennel to figure out how to implement the 3-4 D here. Further, I am left to wonder why guys like Richardson have been left to twist in the wind and we have let offenses walk all over us so often. I like what Crennel did during the 4 game win streak and the last few games of the season, but doesn't anyone else wonder why it took so long and was so hit and miss? And I think Richardson has more left in the tank, but he is a square peg in our 3-4 circle hole and that's a shame. I really like the big guy.
Crennel wasn't our DC in 09.

Canada
03-11-2012, 11:47 AM
Pardon my lateness to the party. I have never thought of Jackson as a bust. I also think Richardson in a 4-3 would be a big success instead of looking over-powered so often. While the defense looked really good the last 1/3 of the season last year, I still am wondering why it took 2 1/2 seasons for Crennel to figure out how to implement the 3-4 D here. Further, I am left to wonder why guys like Richardson have been left to twist in the wind and we have let offenses walk all over us so often. I like what Crennel did during the 4 game win streak and the last few games of the season, but doesn't anyone else wonder why it took so long and was so hit and miss? And I think Richardson has more left in the tank, but he is a square peg in our 3-4 circle hole and that's a shame. I really like the big guy.What Richardson are you talking about?

Canada
03-11-2012, 11:48 AM
Pardon my lateness to the party. I have never thought of Jackson as a bust. I also think Richardson in a 4-3 would be a big success instead of looking over-powered so often. While the defense looked really good the last 1/3 of the season last year, I still am wondering why it took 2 1/2 seasons for Crennel to figure out how to implement the 3-4 D here. Further, I am left to wonder why guys like Richardson have been left to twist in the wind and we have let offenses walk all over us so often. I like what Crennel did during the 4 game win streak and the last few games of the season, but doesn't anyone else wonder why it took so long and was so hit and miss? And I think Richardson has more left in the tank, but he is a square peg in our 3-4 circle hole and that's a shame. I really like the big guy.I think one of the biggest problems the defense has was the offense. They never let them rest.

Eydugstr
03-12-2012, 01:50 AM
I think one of the biggest problems the defense has was the offense. They never let them rest.

+1. Too many three and outs.

OPLookn
03-12-2012, 11:58 AM
What DE is on both sides of the field?

An "impact player" is on both sides of the field.

That's why MyManOrton can pay the outrageous contracts for every top position name that's been mentioned on ESPN. That way we only need 11 guys and we can pay each of them 10 million a year since they're playing both sides of the field.

Chiefster
03-13-2012, 12:26 PM
Hate is such a strong word!

Canada
03-13-2012, 12:28 PM
Hate is such a strong word!It is but it really describes my feelings towards broccoli.

Chiefster
03-13-2012, 12:30 PM
It is but it really describes my feelings towards broccoli.

True, and it does aptly express how I feel about hominy.

josh1971
03-13-2012, 01:25 PM
A hominy/broccoli/pea medley might cause me to go on a shooting spree.

Chiefster
03-13-2012, 02:08 PM
A hominy/broccoli/pea medley might cause me to go on a shooting spree.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

nigeriannightmare
03-13-2012, 03:05 PM
True, and it does aptly express how I feel about hominy.

Grits, u dont like grits......

chief31
03-13-2012, 11:13 PM
It is but it really describes my feelings towards broccoli.

My name is not Broccoli!

Canada
03-15-2012, 10:41 AM
My name is not Broccoli!I dont hate you.......that much!!:bananen_smilies046: