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Chief Concerns
03-13-2012, 06:59 PM
TE John Carlson has a visit set with the Chiefs - tweeted by NFL Insider Jason La Confora.

Had great numbers his first two seasons before numbers dropped off in 2010 and then missed all of 2011 due to shoulder surgery

'08: 55 REC, 627 YDS, 5 TD
'09: 51 REC, 574 YDS, 7 TD
'10: 31 REC, 318 YDS, 1 TD

Would be great 2nd option at TE to run two TE sets and team wouldn't miss a beat in case of another Moeaki injury.

Jrudi
03-13-2012, 07:00 PM
TE John Carlson has a visit set with the Chiefs - tweeted by NFL Insider Jason La Confora.

Had great numbers his first two seasons before numbers dropped off in 2010 and then missed all of last year due to shoulder surgery

'08: 55 REC, 627 YDS, 5 TD
'09: 51 REC, 574 YDS, 7 TD
'10: 31 REC, 318 YDS, 1 TD

Would be great 2nd option at TE to run two TE sets and team wouldn't miss a beat in case of another Moeaki injury.


not bad news....

kinda like it

MissingTBone
03-13-2012, 07:02 PM
DEPTH!! And love the 2 tight end sets idea. Be like NE but we have guys who can stretch the field. Now if we could get some O line help!!

Jrudi
03-13-2012, 07:04 PM
TE John Carlson has a visit set with the Chiefs - tweeted by NFL Insider Jason La Confora.

Had great numbers his first two seasons before numbers dropped off in 2010 and then missed all of 2011 due to shoulder surgery

'08: 55 REC, 627 YDS, 5 TD
'09: 51 REC, 574 YDS, 7 TD
'10: 31 REC, 318 YDS, 1 TD

Would be great 2nd option at TE to run two TE sets and team wouldn't miss a beat in case of another Moeaki injury.


I think his production dropped off because they added Zach Miller from Oakland last year didn't they?

Probably crowded his reps and targets

AkChief49
03-13-2012, 07:15 PM
I think his production dropped off because they added Zach Miller from Oakland last year didn't they?

Probably crowded his reps and targets
That and evidently he's injury prone

Free agent tight end John Carlson to visit the Chiefs | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/free-agent-tight-end-john-carlson-to-visit-the-chiefs/)

Chief Concerns
03-13-2012, 07:20 PM
They added Miller, but he was out with an injury last season. I believe his numbers went down as Seattle added depth at WR. He was their leading receiver in 2008.

'08: 55 REC of 83 Targets
'09: 51 REC of 80 Targets
'10: 31 REC of 58 Targets

#58ChiefsFan
03-13-2012, 07:42 PM
Meh.

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 08:00 PM
Think he would be better then Pope. IMO

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 08:04 PM
Look I hate to be a negative nancy here but why would we want a TE who did not play at all last year?

His numbers have declined every year and zach miller went to seattle in 11 not 10

Depth.

Sure he didn't play last year but he is of some use. TE was one of the spots we were REALLY lacking in last season when Moaki got hurt.

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 08:17 PM
lol but he got hurt during the 2010 season, you want to bring in moaeki and another guy who didnt play at all in 2011? THat doesnt even make logical sense. If you want depth you need to get someone who is not injury prone and will be there through thick and thin. If he plays for us it will be the first time he has played in a year in a half


He's still a young player. 27. He missed a year due to injury theres an upside. He played every game 2 out of 3 seasons he played. Since when does 1 injury make a guy injury prone? Peyton Manning didn't play last year is he injury prone?

jap1
03-13-2012, 08:17 PM
lol but he got hurt during the 2010 season, you want to bring in moaeki and another guy who didnt play at all in 2011? THat doesnt even make logical sense. If you want depth you need to get someone who is not injury prone and will be there through thick and thin. If he plays for us it will be the first time he has played in a year in a half

I thought he was hurt in the preseason last year, so it would only be 1 year that he would have been out.

Chief Concerns
03-13-2012, 08:21 PM
lol but he got hurt during the 2010 season, you want to bring in moaeki and another guy who didnt play at all in 2011? THat doesnt even make logical sense. If you want depth you need to get someone who is not injury prone and will be there through thick and thin. If he plays for us it will be the first time he has played in a year in a half

He played in all but one game of the 2010 season and had a great game in the playoffs that season

AkChief49
03-13-2012, 08:28 PM
He's still a young player. 27. He missed a year due to injury theres an upside. He played every game 2 out of 3 seasons he played. Since when does 1 injury make a guy injury prone? Peyton Manning didn't play last year is he injury prone?
you're absolutely right. The guy played all 16 games in 2008, 2009, and 15 games in 2010. I would have to say NO, he is NOT injury prone!

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 08:38 PM
So let me get this straight, someone who did NOT played the entire 2011 season is not injury prone? Im sorry im just trying to wrap my head around this one

So Tell me Peyton Manning is injury Prone?

jap1
03-13-2012, 08:51 PM
So Tell me Peyton Manning is injury Prone?

As is Tom Brady, Wes Welker, Jamaal Charles, Brandon Flowers (he had the same injury as Carlson, he just had it at the end of the season and decided to wait until post season to have surgery), Eric Berry, etc, etc.

I can list many other people who had one injury that put them out for a whole season, who are NOT considered "injury prone."

That having been said, I would take him as competition/2nd string to a healthy Moeaki.

AkChief49
03-13-2012, 08:51 PM
So let me get this straight, someone who did NOT played the entire 2011 season is not injury prone? Im sorry im just trying to wrap my head around this one
A guy who has started that many games prior gets hurt and he's injury prone?
His injury that kept him out was a shoulder injury(preseason). He has had a concussion(who hasn't in this game)
John Carlson speaks about his shoulder injury, plus other notes | Seattle Seahawks & NFL News - seattlepi.com (http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/2011/08/31/john-carlson-speaks-about-his-shoulder-injury-plus-other-notes/)

AkChief49
03-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Ah I see now, it wasnt serious. He just missed an entire year but hes fine
I guess time will tell whether or not he's fine. He has had an entire year to rehab.

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 09:13 PM
Ah I see now, it wasnt serious. He just missed an entire year but hes fine

Ah I see your ignoring the Peyton Manning Point

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 09:28 PM
My response to you is Yes, he is injury prone. And everyone realizes there is a certain risk involved in signing him. But in his situation the reward far outweighs the risk because of how great of a player he is

Yeah he ONLY MADE 208 Starts before getting hurt Injury prone indeed :sign0023:

2010chiefs
03-13-2012, 10:15 PM
I'm more concerned with the Chiefs not going after players that are more of a priority. The race is on for free agents and we're focusing on a tight end. WHY?

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 10:21 PM
I'm more concerned with the Chiefs not going after players that are more of a priority. The race is on for free agents and we're focusing on a tight end. WHY?

He's just one of a few players that are coming for visits Peyton Hillis, Mike Tolbert, Eric Winston also coming.

2010chiefs
03-13-2012, 10:24 PM
I gotya. Would rather have Tolbert then Hillis.

chief31
03-13-2012, 10:59 PM
Prone is relative to having a tendency.

However, I agree that there is a risk with any player who had an injury put him out for a full season. And, when your starter at that position is already on that list, it makes adding another a bit more risky.

Basically, rather or not he is injury-prone is based on one's opinion. It could be stated that a major injury makes one more susceptible to future injuries, thus giving an implication of tendency.

Jrudi
03-13-2012, 11:09 PM
First off- MyManOrton it looks like you're going to have to change your name soon....unless you're a Cowboys fan...in which case you should no longer post on this forum... haha Just givin you crap man, cus your always so negative about anything that has to do with the Chiefs....

Second- Here's the deal with Carlson: TE IS a position of need, Not having Moeaki last year really really hurt our offense, just as much as not having Charles. Carlson will come in at a discounted price because he was out all of last year. He is capable of and has been a reliable starter in this league already, we need depth at TE, we bring him in as the no.2 TE and he could turn into more. He is already a HUGE upgrade over Jake O'Connell and Anthony Becht no arguement needed.

This dude is a Low risk, High Reward signing and I like it

matthewschiefs
03-13-2012, 11:16 PM
First off- MyManOrton it looks like you're going to have to change your name soon....unless you're a Cowboys fan...in which case you should no longer post on this forum... haha Just givin you crap man, cus your always so negative about anything that has to do with the Chiefs....

Second- Here's the deal with Carlson: TE IS a position of need, Not having Moeaki last year really really hurt our offense, just as much as not having Charles. Carlson will come in at a discounted price because he was out all of last year. He is capable of and has been a reliable starter in this league already, we need depth at TE, we bring him in as the no.2 TE and he could turn into more. He is already a HUGE upgrade over Jake O'Connell and Anthony Becht no arguement needed.

This dude is a Low risk, High Reward signing and I like it



100% agree. Getting him would help add to the team. We need depth at many spots he would help with that.

2010chiefs
03-14-2012, 01:31 AM
Kevin Boss has also been released by the Raiders. I don't know much about Carlson but I do know Boss was pretty good with the Giants.

TopekaRoy
03-14-2012, 03:55 AM
Look I hate to be a negative nancy here but why would we want a TE who did not play at all last year?

By your logic why would we want a QB who did not play last year?


His numbers have declined every year...
Actually they have gone up every year.
'08 8.77 yards per catch, 1 TD for every 11 catches
'09 8.88 ypc, 1 TD for every 7.29 catches
'10 9.75 ypc, 1 TD for every 31 catches

Except for the number of TDs in 2010, his yards per catch and his TDs per catch went up every year. Do you not understand statistics or is math, in general confusing for you?


So let me get this straight, someone who did NOT played the entire 2011 season is not injury prone? Im sorry im just trying to wrap my head around this one

One injury is not injury prone. How long he was out is irrelevant.
Prone [prohn] having a natural inclination or tendency toward something; liable (source (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prone))

If having one injury makes you "injury prone" then every football player who has ever had any injury (including Peyton Manning) is, by your definition "injury prone."


Ah I see now, it wasnt serious. He just missed an entire year but hes fine

Again, using your logic, we shouldn't even think about signing Peyton Maning because he "missed an entire year." (I agree with this, by the way)


He didnt play the whole 2011 season, how is he low risk?

Well, he is no more of a risk than Manning is.

My Man Orton, I will no longer respond to your posts. You have made it perfectly clear that you do not understand math, English, or logic. Why bother?

#58ChiefsFan
03-14-2012, 08:03 AM
Don't forget we are also moving Steve Maneri to the TE position to compete for a spot.

Jrudi
03-14-2012, 10:28 AM
He didnt play the whole 2011 season, how is he low risk?


I will not change my name simply because orton did lead us to our biggest win in 20 years, it was against the undefeated Green Bay Packers. You do realize orton and cassel have the same number of wins against playoff teams dont you? And cassel's win against a playoff team was seattle, and orton was here for a month

He's a low risk, because if you read my previous post, he will more than likely come at a discounted price because he missed last season.

The idea of a "low risk, high reward" signing is not referring to his injury, it is a business phrase that goes along with the idea that we won't have to pay him a large contract to bring him in (We're not out a lot of money if it doesn't work out) but He has the potential and has shown that he could be a reliable starter in the league (so high reward, meaning he could easily outplay the contract we will give him)

Low risk (not a lot of money)- High Reward (potential to give you more than you paid for him)

Do I need to spell it out any more for ya?

okikcfan
03-14-2012, 10:42 AM
So all our players that are coming back after a year off are Injury prone? Really?

Jrudi
03-14-2012, 11:09 AM
Just read this on KCChiefs.com: Carlson also played for Chiefs tight ends coach Bernie Parmalee at Notre Dame

OPLookn
03-14-2012, 12:17 PM
So much for Carlson... "Seattle tight end John Carlson decided to cut his trip to Kansas City short and head to Minnesota. He will likely sign with the Vikings on the trip."

John Carlson leaves K.C. for Minnesota - AFC West Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/41171/john-carlson-leaves-k-c-for-minnesota)

TopekaRoy
03-14-2012, 01:32 PM
IF you had read my post above I stated there is certain risk involved in signing peyton manning. BUT THE REWARD FAR OUTWEIGHS THE RISK. Carlson is no manning so dont even try to compare the two. His production did decrease.


in 08 55 rec 621 yards

09 51 rec 574 yards

10 31 rec 318 yards


Do you see? So you want to bring in a guy who is questionable to be healthy and missed the entire 2011 season to add depth to moaeki who also missed all of the 2011 season.

Yes, your logic makes tons of sense

There is no point in continuing this discussion, because he is going to the Vikings, but he has been more productive with each catch every year. He has just been getting thrown to less. But I'm repeating myself. I already made that point and you couldn't grasp it.

Regarding his risk factor:


He's a low risk, because if you read my previous post, he will more than likely come at a discounted price because he missed last season.

The idea of a "low risk, high reward" signing is not referring to his injury, it is a business phrase that goes along with the idea that we won't have to pay him a large contract to bring him in (We're not out a lot of money if it doesn't work out) but He has the potential and has shown that he could be a reliable starter in the league (so high reward, meaning he could easily outplay the contract we will give him)

Low risk (not a lot of money)- High Reward (potential to give you more than you paid for him)

Do I need to spell it out any more for ya?
Again, already addressed ... Not sinking in.

OPLookn
03-14-2012, 02:28 PM
Moot point now, Schefter just tweeted this... "Vikings reached agreement with former Seahawks tight end John Carslon on a five-year, $25 million deal."

TopekaRoy
03-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Moot point now, Schefter just tweeted this... "Vikings reached agreement with former Seahawks tight end John Carslon on a five-year, $25 million deal."

Well, at that price, I think the risk would have been a bit too high to justify the potential reward.

OPLookn
03-14-2012, 02:47 PM
Well, at that price, I think the risk would have been a bit too high to justify the potential reward.

My guess is his agent heard the amount and told him to get his butt up to Minnesota before they realized what they were doing. Hence the shortened visit to KC.

TopekaRoy
03-14-2012, 02:56 PM
My guess is his agent heard the amount and told him to get his butt up to Minnesota before they realized what they were doing. Hence the shortened visit to KC.

:lol: No wonder he cut his visit with us short!

"They want to pay me HOW MUCH?!"

AkChief49
03-14-2012, 07:08 PM
My guess is his agent heard the amount and told him to get his butt up to Minnesota before they realized what they were doing. Hence the shortened visit to KC.
The guy is from Minnesota and he was offered more than we would have offered him. He never made it to the meeting.


John Carlson Made It To KC, But Never Visited Chiefs - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/3/14/2872073/john-carlson-vikings-chiefs)

TopekaRoy
03-15-2012, 04:15 AM
So he wasn't low risk after all, right? If you had your way we would of paid him some serious cash for a player that didnt play at all last year. Where is your low risk high reward opinion now? And you call me irrational. Some analysts I have heard on this guy over the past couple of days doubt he can ever live up to his potential since his serious injury. If he was our answer at the tight end position and got hurt again we are screwed, we are back to square one. You bring in a guy that missed all of last year you technically dont know what you are getting. All I was saying is that why dont we just get someone in there that is reliable, there are options this year

Wow! As Jrudi pointed out (and I repeated) he would have been worth signing if we signed him for what he was worth. That sounds like I'm being redundant because it is so painfully obvious! The Vikings ridiculously overpaid for him. And he knows it. That's why he never even made it to his meeting with the Chiefs. He knew there was no way any other team would be that stupid! And WalterFootball.com says it's one of the worst FA signings so far this season.


Vikings sign TE John Carlson (5 years, $25M; $11M guaranteed): F Grade
The Vikings are apparently trying to recreate New England's two-tight end offense. The problem is that one of their tight ends suck. And it's the guy they just gave $25 million to.

Talk about overpaying. Carlson is both mediocre (at best) and injury-prone. In what bizarro universe is he worth $25 million, with $11 million of it guaranteed? An even more important question: Did Matt Millen and his LSD-laced kielbasas have a hand in this transaction as well? (source (http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2012recap.php))

There was no way Pioli was going to pay anything close to that because he's smart. But we obviously had interest in the guy if we could get him cheap, because we invited him in to meet with us.

You really don't understand cost vs. value and risk/reward? Really!?

I said I was no longer going to respond to your posts because it doesn't do any good. But when you post stuff like this I just can't help myself and I keep holding out a faint glimmer of hope that maybe you will understand.

It's just in my nature to try to help people. :smile