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matthewschiefs
03-17-2012, 08:17 PM
Big day for us ANTHER pick up.I like the upside of what he can do.

Kansas City Chiefs ‏ @kcchiefs Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Chiefs have agreed to terms with QB Brady Quinn - more details soon on http://kcchiefs.com #chiefs

Nst88r
03-17-2012, 08:19 PM
Big day for us ANTHER pick up.I like the upside of what he can do.

Kansas City Chiefs ‏ @kcchiefs Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Chiefs have agreed to terms with QB Brady Quinn - more details soon on KCChiefs.com | Homepage (http://kcchiefs.com) #chiefs

+1 :booyah:

Barnett89
03-17-2012, 08:25 PM
Guess this means we definitely won't look to draft a QB. One of DeCastro or Keuchly will do for me. Not sold on Poe that high, unless we can drop back and get him and pick up a couple of picks in the process.

LOBBS
03-17-2012, 09:08 PM
If Quinn could somehow be brought up to his potential he could be a huge signing.

AkChief49
03-17-2012, 09:16 PM
If Quinn could somehow be brought up to his potential he could be a huge signing.
Yes, but Quinn is >>>> Palko!

jason1981
03-17-2012, 09:20 PM
i hope we grt poe now even if we have to draft hi a litle high. i think he will be worth it. its not like were drafting him in top ten but he has all the tools and talent to be dominant and a probowler. i think we csn keep him motivated.

SBV_Eagle_Bull
03-17-2012, 09:51 PM
:chiefs: GO CHIEFS.........

Jrudi
03-17-2012, 10:19 PM
Guess this means we definitely won't look to draft a QB. One of DeCastro or Keuchly will do for me. Not sold on Poe that high, unless we can drop back and get him and pick up a couple of picks in the process.

I'm agreeing with this...DeCastro or Trade back


If Quinn could somehow be brought up to his potential he could be a huge signing.


I like this signing for this reason...He's never really gotten a shot, not saying he is going to come in a start for us, but I think he can push Cassel, and may prove he can be a starter after Cassel is gone. There is a reason he was a 1st round draft pick, lets make the most of it

Eydugstr
03-17-2012, 11:11 PM
Welcome to Chiefs, Mr. Quinn.

AussieChiefsFan
03-17-2012, 11:18 PM
Welcome to Chiefs, Mr. Quinn.

Indeed. And he's actually on a good team first the first time in his career.

Three7s
03-18-2012, 12:07 AM
A lot of "glass half-full" going on in here......

You guys realize Quinn won't even play a snap right? And god help us if he does......

AussieChiefsFan
03-18-2012, 12:09 AM
A lot of "glass half-full" going on in here......

You guys realize Quinn won't even play a snap right? And god help us if he does......

You're probably right, but we're just saying he might not be as bad as people say he is. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't start him over Stanzi or Cassel but IMO he'd be better than...say....Palko

chief31
03-18-2012, 12:15 AM
I like this a lot.

Would have preferred Orton or Manning. But I like Brady Quinn.

nigeriannightmare
03-18-2012, 12:38 AM
I like this a lot.

Would have preferred Orton or Manning. But I like Brady Quinn.

From what i remember strong as an ox and a good football iq, u can not count his tenure inn cleveland nor denver this is a real opportimity for him i hope he shines. U dont get drafted in the first round because of bad talent.

chiefnut
03-18-2012, 01:28 AM
i think of quinn as a healthy croyle, but we needed somebody and w/luck he won't need to play a down other than mop up time.

Chiefster
03-18-2012, 01:49 AM
I like this a lot.

Would have preferred Orton or Manning. But I like Brady Quinn.

My thinking as well.

Seek
03-18-2012, 01:55 AM
Soner have a career back up. Yippee. At least he is not palko

Seek
03-18-2012, 01:57 AM
A lot of "glass half-full" going on in here......

You guys realize Quinn won't even play a snap right? And god help us if he does......

Yuup!

KCCF
03-18-2012, 02:06 AM
i hope we grt poe now even if we have to draft hi a litle high. i think he will be worth it. its not like were drafting him in top ten but he has all the tools and talent to be dominant and a probowler. i think we csn keep him motivated.

Poe is actually quite bad, just made a name for himself at the combine. Do your research! lol

Ryfo18
03-18-2012, 02:32 AM
Quinn is a much better backup QB than Tyler Palko, and I don't think anyone will argue that point.

I like that he'll already be familiar with Daboll's system as well. I definitely think he'll be able to push Cassel.

TopekaRoy
03-18-2012, 04:30 AM
A lot of "glass half-full" going on in here......

You guys realize Quinn won't even play a snap right? And god help us if he does......

He won't? I did not know that. How do you know. Please tell us why he wont, and why it would be a bad thing if he does. Tell us, specifically, why he would make such a bad quarterback.

http://www.thatsfascinating.com/uploads/1/7/4/0/1740828/4318912.jpg

Three7s
03-18-2012, 10:57 AM
He won't? I did not know that. How do you know. Please tell us why he wont, and why it would be a bad thing if he does. Tell us, specifically, why he would make such a bad quarterback.

http://www.thatsfascinating.com/uploads/1/7/4/0/1740828/4318912.jpg
You honestly think he'll beat out Cassel or even Stanzi? Pioli brought him as "competition"? Yeah sure, more like just looking for "a guy" to hold a clip board on the cheap.

Do I really need to go over why I think he's bad? 50% completion, QBR of barely over 60 for his career, more picks than TDs, and a whole lot of injuries. He's Brody Croyle with a different name.

Canada
03-18-2012, 11:08 AM
You honestly think he'll beat out Cassel or even Stanzi? Pioli brought him as "competition"? Yeah sure, more like just looking for "a guy" to hold a clip board on the cheap.

Do I really need to go over why I think he's bad? 50% completion, QBR of barely over 60 for his career, more picks than TDs, and a whole lot of injuries. He's Brody Croyle with a different name.Matt Cassel threw more TD and less INTs than tom Brady in his first three seasons. Dosent mean hes great. A different environment may prove beneficial to Quinn. Its not like hes been in the NFL that long. I think he could do alright.

azchiefsfan
03-18-2012, 11:38 AM
At ND he was 29-17. That's a horrible record. Here's my problem(I ask Catholics to set aside preconceived notions here) with Quinn: He failed at Notre Dame and they blamed the coaches instead of Quinn. He failed at Cleveland and they blamed the coach(Crennel) instead of Quinn. He failed at Denver and now too many people want to blame the coaches. He is a rotten QB and while he had a winning record at ND, not even close to a top 25 team. Now let the excuses start. I find it funny how the same guys trashing a very WINNING Matt Cassel are up in arms defending the LOSING Brady Quinn. Methinks I smell a Catholic bias.

Sick Dog
03-18-2012, 11:43 AM
This is only to have an upgrade should an injury occur to Cassel and it is exactly that an upgrade over Palko...if he ever had to step in he could be okay with weapons that he will have in KC.:beat_DeadHorse:

Canada
03-18-2012, 11:48 AM
At ND he was 29-17. That's a horrible record. Here's my problem(I ask Catholics to set aside preconceived notions here) with Quinn: He failed at Notre Dame and they blamed the coaches instead of Quinn. He failed at Cleveland and they blamed the coach(Crennel) instead of Quinn. He failed at Denver and now too many people want to blame the coaches. He is a rotten QB and while he had a winning record at ND, not even close to a top 25 team. Now let the excuses start. I find it funny how the same guys trashing a very WINNING Matt Cassel are up in arms defending the LOSING Brady Quinn. Methinks I smell a Catholic bias.I dont go to church. I just hope he does alright. I want Cassel to have legit competition. I like Cassel but Im looking for any chance to improve the QB. If that is Cassel then awesome. if someone outperforms him...so be it. :bananen_smilies046:

Canada
03-18-2012, 11:50 AM
i dont think Quinn will, but like Sick Dog said, better than Palko.

Three7s
03-18-2012, 01:27 PM
At ND he was 29-17. That's a horrible record. Here's my problem(I ask Catholics to set aside preconceived notions here) with Quinn: He failed at Notre Dame and they blamed the coaches instead of Quinn. He failed at Cleveland and they blamed the coach(Crennel) instead of Quinn. He failed at Denver and now too many people want to blame the coaches. He is a rotten QB and while he had a winning record at ND, not even close to a top 25 team. Now let the excuses start. I find it funny how the same guys trashing a very WINNING Matt Cassel are up in arms defending the LOSING Brady Quinn. Methinks I smell a Catholic bias.
For once, we see eye to eye! :D

nigeriannightmare
03-18-2012, 02:23 PM
]a Winning matt cassel? He doesntn even have above .500 record as a starter in KC

Amazing. I think everyone and their mother knows how u feel about matt cassel is that all u have to bring....we are only good because of herms talent....and the pioli is a bum....what are u gonna do when we are in the afc championship with matt cassel will u shut the eff up.....

nigeriannightmare
03-18-2012, 02:29 PM
No one on these boards has ever seen brady quinn even throw a ball his record in cleveland is null and void. Their skill at the skill positions were weak weak weak. Never got a shot in denver because of tenow. Its amamzing how quick people are to judge without knowing a damn thing its a shame.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 02:36 PM
At ND he was 29-17. That's a horrible record. Here's my problem(I ask Catholics to set aside preconceived notions here) with Quinn: He failed at Notre Dame and they blamed the coaches instead of Quinn. He failed at Cleveland and they blamed the coach(Crennel) instead of Quinn. He failed at Denver and now too many people want to blame the coaches. He is a rotten QB and while he had a winning record at ND, not even close to a top 25 team. Now let the excuses start. I find it funny how the same guys trashing a very WINNING Matt Cassel are up in arms defending the LOSING Brady Quinn. Methinks I smell a Catholic bias.


Brady Quinn was very good in college. The reason the lost games was alot of the same we lost games in the early 2000s Defense there Was TERRIBLE. Brady earned a number of awards in his time of college. He was good there. People always want to blame the QBs for losses I get that. But the reason Notre Dame failed was not Because Brady Quinn was there QB.

He struggled early in Cleveland like many young QBs do in there first years. But who did he have to throw to there? He had Braylon Edwards and who eles? In Denver he didn't get a lot of chances.

Do I think Quinn is going to be a QB that comes in and suddenly becomes a "star qb" No I don't but do I think theres no way that Quinn can help no I don't. He might surprise us. He might just hold a clipboard But lets not judge until we see what he can do.

TopekaRoy
03-18-2012, 02:43 PM
He failed at Cleveland and they blamed the coach(Crennel) instead of Quinn. (Who hasn't failed at Cleveland? I don't blame the coach for that. I blame the talent around him.)
He failed at Denver and now too many people want to blame the coaches. (He didn't fail at Denver. He never played. Orton failed and instead of playing Quinn, they put Tebow in hoping HE would fail so they could shut up their idiot fanbase, but the plan backfired.)
He is a rotten QB and while he had a winning record at ND, not even close to a top 25 team. (I don't really follow ND football, but the polls almost always have them overrated. Every year they start high in the polls and steadily drop as the season goes by. For years now they have had recruiting problems and again, Quinn can only be as good as the players around him allow him to be.)
Now let the excuses start.(I'm glad to get the ball rolling! :D )
I find it funny how the same guys trashing a very WINNING Matt Cassel are up in arms defending the LOSING Brady Quinn. (You have never seen me bashing Cassel. I think he is a fine QB, and I don't know if Quinn is good enough to beat him out or not. Quinn has never played in these circumstances before. But he will be a far better back up than Palko was and could be enough competition to push Cassel to play at a higher lever.)
Methinks I smell a Catholic bias.
You are not smelling me, then. I'm a Protestant and some of my favorite QBs were Mormons!

Canada
03-18-2012, 04:03 PM
I know but hes not a winner. So I really dont get that statementReally...hes had two seasons with 10+wins. Hes thrown more TDs and Less INTs in his first three seasons than Tom Brady did...I guess you are looking for more of an Orton type winner...one who settles for a backup role.

Canada
03-18-2012, 04:07 PM
a Winning matt cassel? He doesntn even have above .500 record as a starter in KCBut he does have a winning record as a starter...he was on a 2-14 team when he came here and turned it around pretty quick. How come you dont give "Herms team" credit when there are losses...its just Cassels fault, when they win its Herms team??

Nst88r
03-18-2012, 04:08 PM
sooo, we have a 1rst round QB at the FA, ,whats the problem??

Canada
03-18-2012, 04:19 PM
Hey anytime a guy steps in with no practice time with no relation to a team and has a better rating nad YPG than the starting qb who has been there for 2.5 seasons, you know you might have something thereYeah Orton lit up the field with all the FGs he got us. If you dont realize that we won those games with our defense and new HC, then you need to start paying attention when the games are on.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 04:46 PM
I firmly believe when there is a change in the organization you inherit the previous regime's draft. Look at the time Dick Vermeil was coach, they were in the "Win it now" mentality and brought over a bunch of FA in quest for a SB. Look at our drafts from 2002-2005 it was definitely not good. Ryan Sims, Junior Siavi, Eddie freeman, from what I remember we traded out of the first and second round many times.

I am not syaing Herm was a great coach or was not given enough time, but he drafted well from the time he was here.To see these young guys mature and go off to pro bowls really makes you see how well he drafted. And now pioli has inherited his young talented players.

You act like Pioli hasn't drafted well

you name Charles,Bowe,Hali,DJ,Albert,Flowers And you're 100% correct they have been a big plus in this team. But it took them time to start to be that impact. And They also drafted guys that didn't work out Justin Medlock anyone

Pioli Berry,Houston (had a pretty good rookie year last year), Mccluster,Moaki (got hurt last year but was a huge redzone target in his rookie year) Tyson Jackson Yes I will name him He might not have lead the NFL in the stats that everyone looks at but he was amoung the tops in the league in other key spots. (they wouldn't keep stats on those things if they didn't matter) Allen Bailey started coming on at the end of last year I'm excited about what he can do this next year. Ryan Succop (with the LAST PICK OF THE DRAFT) Rodney Hudson Young o line player who did well. Give credit where Credit is due.

TopekaRoy
03-18-2012, 04:56 PM
There is no way you can look at this team objectively and say it hasn't gotten better since Pioli took over.

I love a spirited debate, but, as far as Cassel goes, this discussion has been beaten to death! MMO is never going to convince Cassel supporters that he can't be a good QB with the right talent around him. These are new circumstances and we won't really know how good Matt will be until the season starts. And nobody is going to convince Cassel detractors that he is a good QB until he proves it on the field (again).

I guess there is no harm in arguing the same points over and over and over again. I just don't see this argument going anywhere. But carry on if you like ... :smile

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 05:08 PM
I understand sometimes Herm had spots where he didnt draft well. But my whole argument is this, the players that herm drafted as of now have shined far more than pioli's players. Hali>Jackson Charles>Mccluster Bowe>Baldwin etc.. Pioli hasn't drafted that well. He waited 4 seasons to finally upgrade at tackle.

A huge reach on Jackson, trades second round pick for matt cassel, you know how i feel about him, 3rd round pick Magee is cut. I still do not understand the Mccluster pick, why would you draft him second? I believe it was to bring him in and use him as a slot WR which did not work out. Now he was stuck behind charles and jones, when charles got hurt he got to play. Then you have baldwin who is an absolute basket case and up until this offseason we have not done a good job in the FA market.

I dont want to argue about pioli's management because we have done so about 10 million times. I just think if pioli inherited the draft that Herm did he would be in big trouble. He is lucky herm drafted so well

Herm's players have had more time to adjust to the NFL game. It wasn't instant for them either. After they traded Jarad allen there were Many chiefs fans saying that Hali was nothing without Allen. Now Hali is one of the best in the NFL. Muccluster had over 800 yards between rushing and reciveing last year. THAT'S WHY HE WAS PICKED. You really need to get over "he was drafted to be a slot WR" WHO CARES He has been a plus to the offense. He was the 2nd best part of it behind Bowe. HE'S HELPING THIS TEAM that's what matters. Baldwin was A ROOKIE again Peyton manning HORRIBLE rookie season so there gm was wrong for drafting him? All draft picks are not instant that's just the fact of how the nfl works

Three7s
03-18-2012, 05:16 PM
Herm's players have had more time to adjust to the NFL game. It wasn't instant for them either. After they traded Jarad allen there were Many chiefs fans saying that Hali was nothing without Allen. Now Hali is one of the best in the NFL. Muccluster had over 800 yards between rushing and reciveing last year. THAT'S WHY HE WAS PICKED. You really need to get over "he was drafted to be a slot WR" WHO CARES He has been a plus to the offense. He was the 2nd best part of it behind Bowe. HE'S HELPING THIS TEAM that's what matters. Baldwin was A ROOKIE again Peyton manning HORRIBLE rookie season so there gm was wrong for drafting him? All draft picks are not instant that's just the fact of how the nfl works
So you're saying McBuster is a Reggie Bush/Darren Sproles light? He couldn't even hold their jock strap. McBuster finally got a chance to play and didn't really do much of anything, though his supporters will say he was super.

McBuster is kind of like Greg Hill. Hyped up speed, used a lot in rushing and receiving, did nothing in the end.

TopekaRoy
03-18-2012, 05:23 PM
I just don't see how "inheriting" Herm's players is a knock on Pioli. He kept the good ones, many of whom didn't develop until after Herm was gone, and he has added more good players. Some of the more recent draftees will need two or three years to develop, but we are moving in the right direction.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 05:27 PM
So you're saying McBuster is a Reggie Bush/Darren Sproles light? He couldn't even hold their jock strap. McBuster finally got a chance to play and didn't really do much of anything, though his supporters will say he was super.

McBuster is kind of like Greg Hill. Hyped up speed, used a lot in rushing and receiving, did nothing in the end.

YA who wants a guy who can get you about 850 yards. Get 4.5 yards for a carry as he did last year in his 2ND season he's clearly horrible. FIRE PIOLI

PEOPLE need to stop the blind hate for him. By your logic of guys being horrible The Colts gm was HORRIBLE for picking Manning, The packers gm who traded for Farve was TERRIBLE, the 49ers gm who brought in Steve Young WORST GM EVER.

TopekaRoy
03-18-2012, 06:33 PM
Speaking of Brady Quinn--I think I saw his name in the thread title somewhere--KCChiefs.com (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/Chiefs-agree-to-terms-with-QB-Brady-Quinn/86aee426-1007-4448-b544-7a7cf0f1b435) is reporting that the Chiefs have agreed to terms with Quinn. Undisclosed. Now, nobody can tell me he is not worth THAT! :lol:

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:34 PM
Poe is actually quite bad, just made a name for himself at the combine. Do your research! lol

I can't claim to have watched him play. But I did look at a whole lot of mock drafts prior to the combine, and Poe was in the first round of about 90% of the mocks I looked at.

He had a name before the combine. And I did my research.

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:36 PM
You honestly think he'll beat out Cassel or even Stanzi? Pioli brought him as "competition"? Yeah sure, more like just looking for "a guy" to hold a clip board on the cheap.

Do I really need to go over why I think he's bad? 50% completion, QBR of barely over 60 for his career, more picks than TDs, and a whole lot of injuries. He's Brody Croyle with a different name.

10 TDs, 9 INTs....

Brady Quinn, QB for the Denver Broncos at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/bradyquinn/2495714/profile)

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:40 PM
At ND he was 29-17. That's a horrible record. Here's my problem(I ask Catholics to set aside preconceived notions here) with Quinn: He failed at Notre Dame and they blamed the coaches instead of Quinn. He failed at Cleveland and they blamed the coach(Crennel) instead of Quinn. He failed at Denver and now too many people want to blame the coaches. He is a rotten QB and while he had a winning record at ND, not even close to a top 25 team. Now let the excuses start. I find it funny how the same guys trashing a very WINNING Matt Cassel are up in arms defending the LOSING Brady Quinn. Methinks I smell a Catholic bias.

I am no catholic. Nor am I a Cassel-hater.

But this guy has not had much of a chance at this point. And 29-17 is pretty decent.

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:40 PM
Hey anytime a guy steps in with no practice time with no relation to a team and has a better rating nad YPG than the starting qb who has been there for 2.5 seasons, you know you might have something there

Yeah Orton's 13 PPG sure does rock Cassel's 15.6 PPG, doesn't it?

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:43 PM
I understand sometimes Herm had spots where he didnt draft well. But my whole argument is this, the players that herm drafted as of now have shined far more than pioli's players. Hali>Jackson Charles>Mccluster Bowe>Baldwin etc.. Pioli hasn't drafted that well. He waited 4 seasons to finally upgrade at tackle.

A huge reach on Jackson, trades second round pick for matt cassel, you know how i feel about him, 3rd round pick Magee is cut. I still do not understand the Mccluster pick, why would you draft him second? I believe it was to bring him in and use him as a slot WR which did not work out. Now he was stuck behind charles and jones, when charles got hurt he got to play. Then you have baldwin who is an absolute basket case and up until this offseason we have not done a good job in the FA market.

I dont want to argue about pioli's management because we have done so about 10 million times. I just think if pioli inherited the draft that Herm did he would be in big trouble. He is lucky herm drafted so well

So, in "Herms players first three seasons, they tanked it down to 2-14.

But now that they are entering their primes, you want to compare them to "Piolis players" who are in their first three seasons?

Any chance that you might take a look around to see if you could find some logic for that?

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:50 PM
So you're saying McBuster is a Reggie Bush/Darren Sproles light? He couldn't even hold their jock strap. McBuster finally got a chance to play and didn't really do much of anything, though his supporters will say he was super.

McBuster is kind of like Greg Hill. Hyped up speed, used a lot in rushing and receiving, did nothing in the end.

It must be pretty entertaining to see you talk Royals baseball.

Only MMO complains more than you. And I am certain that he is just a parody of somebody.

:lol:

McCluster did pretty well in 2011. Especially for a guy who was drafted to play WR, and did for his first season.

He is not JC, but he averaged 4.5 YPC, which, by team ranking, would rank seventh in The NFL.

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2011&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=RUSHING_AVERAGE_YARDS)

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:55 PM
Chief31...

And Moeaki broke a Chiefs record for catches for a TE. Arenas has been exceptional in his role with the team.
Jackson has grown into a monster, rather you know what that means, or not.
McCluster has done more in his first two seasons than Charles did.
Asamoah may well be our best starting O-lineman.
Hudson has looked very good as well.


And, of course, Eric Berry.

It's pretty easy to show the positives for one group, and not mention the positives of the other, then say "see? My group is better.", isn't it?

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 06:58 PM
I understand that which is why a lot of the time when i compare the 2 drafts i like to compare Herm's players that succeeded early to pioli's. Take Jamaal Charles, Flowers and Bowe for example. Bowe was 4 or 5 yards away from being a thousand yard receiver in his rookie year. Jamaal Charles almost beat jim brown's record his third season. Flowers had a HUGE year in 2009, only his second year in the league. I mean with Pioli you have seen that kind of production from 1 player and that is Berry. Plus Pioli has had 2 top 5 drafts where as herm did not.

We all know Tyson Jackson wont ever have good numbers because of his position. He was a top 3 pick. We didn't see much of baldwin this year because of him getting in trouble. Mccluster is our third string RB and occasional punt/kick returner. Besides Berry no one has really come in and made a TRUE impact early in their career. And he was out all this year due to an injury. Houston MIGHT but just because he had a few good games in his rookie year doesn't mean he will be good in the future. All I can do is compare what pioli's players have done not what they can or might do. And his picks have not been too impressive.

I just dont see the point when you bring up mccluster in the argument, he is a third string RB behind charles and hillis. He is the odd man out. Unless someone is injured there really isnt a big need for him. A speed back? We already have one. Which is why in my opinion i think we drafted him tobe a slot WR and it just didnt work out. Another mark on pioli. But you have read my posts and I give credit where credit is due. I like what Pioli did in our off season with hte exception of signing quinn and letting orton go.


The thing is you're being unfair to Pioli's picks in some aspects. You're pointing out look at what Herm's picks are at now. Again It took time. Yes Bowe came in and was good that does happen but not all the picks you point to now being key members of the team worked out that way. You point them out ONLY AFTER they had time to work out through there system. You count Mccluster as a failed pick after 2 years. In one year he got almost 850 yards as a combo WR and Rusher. We will see the same combo out of him this year. Maybe just not as many carries. The point is Mccluster was a big part of the offense last year. Why Ignore that? Sure guys going down helped him get those numbers but if he wasn't there do you really want to see what this team would have looked like? Mccluster was forced into a different role then what was designed for him last season and still did very very well.

Baldwin had his troubles there's no doubt about that there's no argument against it. But he also had his good moments common when it comes to rookies. But there is a huge upside to him. You talk about Bowes first couple of years well his 3rd season was a down year. If Mccluster can get 800 yards per season we keep Bowe and Baldwin becomes a solid number 2 guy every year would you complain then? I wouldn't judge any WR who can do this after his rookie year to not have hope for.
Jon Baldwin's Behind the Back Catch (11-13-11) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSjhZWXhdjw)

chief31
03-18-2012, 06:59 PM
No but his rating and record against .500 teams this past year trumps cassel's.

Cassel 65 qb rating 2-3

Orton 81 2-1. (2 blocked FG away from going 3-0 and winning the division)

This is a guy who didnt even practice with the team Chief

And it's a guy who got to play with the team after they had gotten used to not having Moeaki and Charles.

But that 13 PPG is the stuff that Superstars are made of, isn't it?

You are definitely a great QB if your defense is winning while you manage a massive 13 PPG.

You can have as good of a QB Rating as you want. But if my guy gets more points with a lesser rating, then my guy is doing better.

(Not that either did anything amazing, mind you)

chief31
03-18-2012, 07:00 PM
Chief I dont mind signing Quinn but what I do mind is him being our back up qb. I think you either sign quinn and cut stanzi or not sign quinn at all.

Those are horrible stats btw

It's from twelve games with The Cleveland Browns, nine of them as a rookie.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 07:08 PM
I never said mccluster was a bad player, but he was a bad pick for us. Unless Charles gets hurt he wont play much

You know who also made a similar catch? Tyrone Prothro and he never played in the nfl

Really how do you know how much he will play. We have a new Head Coach And a new OC. So your in contact with them and know what the game plan is?

He might of made a similar catch but did he do it against an NFL CB? Don't you think that makes it a bit tougher to do?

ctchiefsfan
03-18-2012, 07:09 PM
MMO=:troll31: He needs to go to a Dallas board.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 07:34 PM
I understand sometimes Herm had spots where he didnt draft well. But my whole argument is this, the players that herm drafted as of now have shined far more than pioli's players. Hali>Jackson Charles>Mccluster Bowe>Baldwin etc.. Pioli hasn't drafted that well. He waited 4 seasons to finally upgrade at tackle.

A huge reach on Jackson, trades second round pick for matt cassel, you know how i feel about him, 3rd round pick Magee is cut. I still do not understand the Mccluster pick, why would you draft him second? I believe it was to bring him in and use him as a slot WR which did not work out. Now he was stuck behind charles and jones, when charles got hurt he got to play. Then you have baldwin who is an absolute basket case and up until this offseason we have not done a good job in the FA market.

I dont want to argue about pioli's management because we have done so about 10 million times. I just think if pioli inherited the draft that Herm did he would be in big trouble. He is lucky herm drafted so well


A huge reach on Jackson Let me ask you do you think stopping the run is important? If you do then Jackson is living up to his pick as he is NUMBER 1 IN THE NFL in stopping the run %
2011 Run Stop Percentage: 3-4 Defensive Ends | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/09/2011-run-stop-percentage-3-4-defensive-ends/)

Don't think you can get much better then being Number 1 in the NFL at something.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 07:39 PM
Because we have the best speed rb in the game. (Well maybe CJ is better) How much is the third string RB going to play? Probably similar to 2010.

It was one catch. Relax

Not much but That's most likely will not be his role. He will be a Combo rusher and wr he will get a number of snaps in each and will get the ball some in both. He proved last year he can do it.

And it's one catch but it's a good sign when you see that type of catch. It just shows you a glimpse of what he can do. Something that I like to see

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 07:45 PM
.

If he and dorsey are the number 1 DE why do we still rank 15th in YPC rushing wise

Because 2 players don't make up a teams defense 11 do. They were the strongest 2 in the run defense




.and what is considered a "Stop?"

To be honest I can't tell you exactly makes a stop. I think and this is just what I think it is not the offical term a stop is the person who stops the runner not always the one to make the tackle but the one that stops the progress either makeing the tackle or assisting in others makeing the tackle. If it was not a Important part of the game they wouldn't keep stats for it. To steal a phrase I call being number 1 in the NFL at that a IMPACT on the game

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 07:58 PM
Matt these are bush league stats. If you want to prove something to me show me the yards per rush ran to jackson's side. They even have JJ Watt's stats all wrong

It's things like this why people have a problem with some of your post. You want any number that doesn't fit your opinion on something thrown out. Cassels winning season in 2010 you want to throw that out for "weak oppents" . Jackson being number 1 in the entire NFL at something that is pretty important to the game stopping the run "Bush league" People might respond to you better if you just give a little credit where credit is due.I was one of the more vocal Haleys got to go posters on here last season it's one of the MANY times Chiefs31 and I have disagreed and went back and forth on but I always have and still do give Haley full credit for 2010. You can be critical of someone while still giving them props when they do something well.

I also would like to see Tysons pass rush get better. But that doesn't mean that he isn't a good part of the defense. It's just something that he needs to improve on IMO.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 08:05 PM
No what im trying to understand is what is a "stop." To me that would be whatever the RB YPC is to his side when hes in the game. That is a stat i would like to see. Reason i said "Bush League" is because it has JJ Watt's tackles at 34 when really its 56 with 5.5 sacks.

Those tackles are only counted against the run. There's not his passing game stats added in there. So that's where the missing tackles are

And runs to his side shouldn't always count against him. There could be times where he does his job and the other part of the team doesn't

ctchiefsfan
03-18-2012, 08:46 PM
:troll31: Let him go to Dallas.

chief31
03-18-2012, 08:51 PM
It's things like this why people have a problem with some of your post. You want any number that doesn't fit your opinion on something thrown out. Cassels winning season in 2010 you want to throw that out for "weak oppents" . Jackson being number 1 in the entire NFL at something that is pretty important to the game stopping the run "Bush league" People might respond to you better if you just give a little credit where credit is due.I was one of the more vocal Haleys got to go posters on here last season it's one of the MANY times Chiefs31 and I have disagreed and went back and forth on but I always have and still do give Haley full credit for 2010. You can be critical of someone while still giving them props when they do something well.

I also would like to see Tysons pass rush get better. But that doesn't mean that he isn't a good part of the defense. It's just something that he needs to improve on IMO.

I side with MMO a bit on this. These are invented stats that include a whole lot of opinion about what is important, and how much higher to rate one aspect over another.

I like that they do it. But I absolutely take them as a far less dependable statistic then even straight stats, which are susceptible to a whole lot of speculation.

But I watched Jackson pretty closely last season, and he was a ton. And even the straight stats show it.

TopekaRoy
03-18-2012, 08:57 PM
I do think that "stops" doesn't tell the whole story. I want to know where a player is making those stops (how close to the line of scrimmage). Even then, that could be dependent on the how well the guys around him are playing.

It's a useful stat as far as it goes, but like any stat, it can be misleading in some cases.

TopekaRoy
03-18-2012, 09:37 PM
I wasnt trying to be rude to Matt I just didnt understand what that site meant by saying "Stops." I think the closest we can look to see how effective he is is to see what RB averaged when they ran to his side. The average was 4.05 or whatever I mentioned in the above post which was 12th in the league. That is still no where near worth a 3rd pick in the draft but let's move on. We had a good offseason so let's see what we can do this season

See, there again, that is also a useful stat, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Jackson isn't the only guy responsible for stopping a running back on his side. If he is double teamed on a particular play, someone else will probably be making the tackle.

There are also 2 LBs, a CB, and a safety on his side. The NT would hopefully be in on the play as well. Of course, if the safety is making the tackle (as was frequently the case when Miami and Denver ran all over us) we are in big trouble.

No single stat tells the whole story for one player. Every players stats are affected by the guys around if him. The most important stats (other than points allowed) are Yds per carry and yds per catch allowed. But again, those indicate how the team as a whole is performing and not just one player.

OK. Now we can move on if you wish! :D

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 09:48 PM
I wasnt trying to be rude to Matt I just didnt understand what that site meant by saying "Stops." I think the closest we can look to see how effective he is is to see what RB averaged when they ran to his side. The average was 4.05 or whatever I mentioned in the above post which was 12th in the league. That is still no where near worth a 3rd pick in the draft but let's move on. We had a good offseason so let's see what we can do this season

No worries I didn't take it as you being rude at all. I don't mind a little back and forth with anyone. And you're not the first one I have had a back and forth like that with it's all good.

See, there again, that is also a useful stat, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Jackson isn't the only guy responsible for stopping a running back on his side. If he is double teamed on a particular play, someone else will probably be making the tackle.

There are also 2 LBs, a CB, and a safety on his side. The NT would hopefully be in on the play as well. Of course, if the safety is making the tackle (as was frequently the case when Miami and Denver ran all over us) we are in big trouble.

No single stat tells the whole story for one player. Every players stats are affected by the guys around if him. The most important stats (other than points allowed) are Yds per carry and yds per catch allowed. But again, those indicate how the team as a whole is performing and not just one player.

OK. Now we can move on if you wish! :D


THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AkChief49
03-18-2012, 10:26 PM
2011 Run Stop Percentage: 3-4 Defensive Ends | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/09/2011-run-stop-percentage-3-4-defensive-ends/)

first paragraph explains the defensive stop.

AkChief49
03-18-2012, 10:32 PM
But the other stat i read said that the RB averages 4.05 ypc when ran to the right side. Look anyway you cut it hes no where near a 3rd pick. But that was a long time ago, let's move on and see what we have this season. ok?
I'm good with it. someone said they did not know what a stop was. just trying to help.:bananen_smilies046:

nigeriannightmare
03-18-2012, 10:36 PM
But the other stat i read said that the RB averages 4.05 ypc when ran to the right side. Look anyway you cut it hes no where near a 3rd pick. But that was a long time ago, let's move on and see what we have this season. ok?

Dude did u not read scott pioli wanted to trade back between 8 and 11 where he was prijected but there were no takers. He wanted a high character guy that wouldnt let top 5 money get to his head. So theres more to.the story than u care to mention.

matthewschiefs
03-18-2012, 11:05 PM
Honestly I am very anxious to see this team with hillis, boss and winston. Hillis, charles and mccluster in the backfield. Hopefully cassel can take care of the ball. Good defense it should be fun

As am I. I think we are going to see a very good offense even not getting Manning. I just hope Manning signs with the Donkeys so we can beat him up twice a year and make him regret not even granting us a visit. Either that or sign with the niners and we can do it in the superbowl :D :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs:

Three7s
03-19-2012, 01:18 AM
It must be pretty entertaining to see you talk Royals baseball.

Only MMO complains more than you. And I am certain that he is just a parody of somebody.

:lol:

McCluster did pretty well in 2011. Especially for a guy who was drafted to play WR, and did for his first season.

He is not JC, but he averaged 4.5 YPC, which, by team ranking, would rank seventh in The NFL.

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2011&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=RUSHING_AVERAGE_YARDS)
I don't think it's any mystery that I hate this regime. As you found out during the Herm years, if I find something I don't like, I'm not gonna be shy to voice my opinion, despite probably offending others.

As for McCluster, I'll still say he's just fool's gold. You can throw his YPC at me any time you want, just don't forget all the 3rd and 18 draws he gets for 13 yards. His stats are incredibly skewed compared to a normal RB that is forced to get the rough yards.

I saw a lot of football last season featuring the Saints and the Dolphins, and the only players that McCluster could favorably compare to is Bush and Sproles, which I believe a lot of people compared him to. They are making a constant impact on every snap. McCluster usually just gets crushed if he gets near the ball.

tornadospotter
03-19-2012, 05:28 AM
Mccluster is a poor man's darren sproles
Sproles was never a Chief!

Seek
03-19-2012, 10:07 AM
McCluster could be a beast if he would stop getting tackles by peoples fingers. He literally falls down from the wind of the defensive player. Every hit against him looks like a huge hit. Watching him play looks a lot like me tackling my six year old son.

Canada
03-19-2012, 10:15 AM
McCluster could be a beast if he would stop getting tackles by peoples fingers. He literally falls down from the wind of the defensive player. Every hit against him looks like a huge hit. Watching him play looks a lot like me tackling my six year old son.I like McCluster is space. Not in the backfield as a RB.

You tackle your 6 year old?

:bananen_smilies046:

dbolan
03-19-2012, 10:39 AM
Quinn cut his teeth at the Browns and pretty much everyone seems to believe that no matter who you are, things suck in Cleveland. I think Quinn was rooted out of the start in Denver due to Tebowmania and he could be a pleasant suprise should he get a chance to play with the Chiefs. If Cassel can do well with a great supporting cast, I am sure Quinn would be able too since he has never actually had that.

Seek
03-19-2012, 12:59 PM
I like McCluster is space. Not in the backfield as a RB.

You tackle your 6 year old?

:bananen_smilies046:

Yes, I spend time playing football with my boys. They have to learn to take a hit, other wise they will end up playing soccer.

Eydugstr
03-19-2012, 01:13 PM
So you're saying McBuster is a Reggie Bush/Darren Sproles light? He couldn't even hold their jock strap. McBuster finally got a chance to play and didn't really do much of anything, though his supporters will say he was super.

McBuster is kind of like Greg Hill. Hyped up speed, used a lot in rushing and receiving, did nothing in the end.

Trying to compare the situation with McCluster with Greg Hill is apples to oranges. Greg Hill, for whatever reason, was made to sit on the bench during a majority of his time with the chiefs, while Schottenheimer played running back by committee.

When Hill finally got the chance to play a full game, for Dick Vermeil & the Rams, he responded with a 140+ yard game, a game in which he tried so hard he wound up breaking his leg and had to leave the NFL because of the injury.

My point is this - McCluster has gotten opportunities, but he's stuck in situations he's just not tailor made for. Maybe another reason for Haley's mid-season firing? The guy is awesome return man. Pounding the ball inbetween the tackles is just not his cup of tea, although not from lack of trying.

KristofLaw
03-19-2012, 01:29 PM
Some interesting back and forth in this thread. On Brady Quinn, welcome to the Chiefs and hears hoping some success with us in your new home! :bananen_smilies046: :chiefs:

Nst88r
03-19-2012, 02:39 PM
Some interesting back and forth in this thread. On Brady Quinn, welcome to the Chiefs and hears hoping some success with us in your new home! :bananen_smilies046: :chiefs:


Yeah! I give him the benefit of the doubt! Welcome!:chiefs:

Canada
03-22-2012, 10:05 AM
Yes, I spend time playing football with my boys. They have to learn to take a hit, other wise they will end up playing soccer.Yeah right, u r just a bully!!:D