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View Full Version : 2 reasons Pioli gets an A+ these past 6 months



Bike
04-29-2012, 11:02 AM
1. Making the HC change before the end of last season and announcing RAC as new HC shortly after the end of the season.
2. Not screwing around with Winston and getting him signed.

The draft remains to be seen but these 2 moves alone will make us a competitive team next year and beyond. Great job.

brdempsey69
04-29-2012, 12:30 PM
3. Getting Routt on board before Carr had walked.
4. Not panicking about the QB situation and signing a veteran backup in Quinn.
5. Getting rid of Muir in addition to Haley & getting a real OC and a real O-Line coach.
6. NOT doing it the NE way, but more reminiscent of the way Don Klosterman did it as far as orchestrating the draft and FA. Klosterman had a track record as a GM that few could match and it was great to see Pioli take a page out of his book this off-season.
7. Best draft of any team in the AFC West -- it's not even close. In fact, this is the best draft that the Chiefs have had in years with only the 2008 draft being comparable.

slc chief
04-29-2012, 01:24 PM
pro football talk gave us a b+ grade for our draft.i would agree pioli has been making some good moves.

nigeriannightmare
04-29-2012, 01:56 PM
pro football talk gave us a b+ grade for our draft.i would agree pioli has been making some good moves.

Mel Kiper gave us a C+, and the chargers qn A. Wtf!

raiderhater79
04-29-2012, 02:30 PM
Mel Kiper gave us a C+, and the chargers qn A. Wtf!


**** Mel Kiper

brdempsey69
04-29-2012, 02:38 PM
Mel Kiper gave us a C+, and the chargers qn A. Wtf!

I give the Chiefs draft an A+ and I lost all respect for Kiper years ago. This was the same guy hyping up JaMarcus Russell to be a franchise QB back in 2007.

We saw how that worked out, didn't we?

People are too hung up on drafting sexy picks at the top of the draft. That's not what the Chiefs needed coming into this draft. They were long overdue to make a run on some BEEF with their top 3 picks and they did a nice job getting that this year & they did a nice job in rounds 4 through 7, as well. This draft gets an A+ from me, regardless of what Kiper says.

texaschief
04-29-2012, 02:47 PM
The additions of Winston and Routt are especially nice because of their draft "bonus." Usually, when a good, productive player hits the open market at a UFA, the team that loses said player is compensated with a comparable draft pick... like the one we'll see coming to the Chiefs for the loss of Brandon Carr.

However, since both Routt and Winston were released by their teams, the Chiefs won't lose that compensation by signing a UFA of equal value to Carr. So, by signing players who were released instead of players who are leaving, the Chiefs will be able to retain the Carr compensation... which is a VERY BIG deal because the expected compensatory pick for Carr is probably going to be a 3rd rounder.

TopekaRoy
04-29-2012, 05:11 PM
You all make very good points. I would give Pioli a solid A for what he has done, so far.

As far as the draft goes, I am tentatively giving it a B+ for now. We really can't fairly evaluate it until these players have had a couple of years to develop, but I really like his picks, this year.

The only reason I don't give it an A is because the Poe pick is still a question mark. He could turn out to be a great player (and I think he will) but also has a higher than average chance of being a bust. I'm in "wait-and-see" mode on him.

Strategically, however, I think it was a great move by Pioli to take care of NT first and then improve the O-line in rounds 2 and 3. If he had picked DeCastro in round 1 we probably wouldn't have gotten a decent NT. But in this case we were still able to get 2 excellent O-linemen (hopefully).

We took care of our biggest needs in rounds 1-3 and got some excellent depth in 4-7. I think we will see a higher than usual number of these guys make the opening day roster. Pioli and Crennel may have to make some very difficult decisions when they cut the roster down to 53. And that's a good thing!

bricooper78
04-29-2012, 05:17 PM
I'd say he could be an A-, due to the Poe boom or bust, but if only one guy out of the group doesn't live up to what he's supposed to be, that's still pretty dang solid, considering the draft is almost russian roulette lol

#58ChiefsFan
04-29-2012, 06:22 PM
From Piolis draft interview I feel the organization did their due diligence on Poe.

The same questions the draft "experts" have on Dontari were addressed by Pioli. The Chiefs went back and looked at every snap he took and determined that on 49% of his plays the ball was released so fast that Poe had a 0% chance of making a play. The same 50% the "experts" say he took off the play the Chiefs did the homework on and formulated a real world statistic.

Don't believe the negative hype, Poe will be a beast. He needs to work on his two technique but what rookie doesn't have something they can improve.

LlamaNinja
04-30-2012, 01:59 AM
I am more worried about the "perfect" rookie than a rookie that needs to improve. IE Ryan Leaf(the QB/fugitive)... hehe

KCCF
04-30-2012, 07:41 AM
I give the Chiefs draft an A+ and I lost all respect for Kiper years ago. This was the same guy hyping up JaMarcus Russell to be a franchise QB back in 2007.

We saw how that worked out, didn't we?

People are too hung up on drafting sexy picks at the top of the draft. That's not what the Chiefs needed coming into this draft. They were long overdue to make a run on some BEEF with their top 3 picks and they did a nice job getting that this year & they did a nice job in rounds 4 through 7, as well. This draft gets an A+ from me, regardless of what Kiper says.

To be fair I don't think anyone thought he would be a bust.

OPLookn
04-30-2012, 11:22 AM
To be fair I don't think anyone thought he would be a bust.

Uhm, quite a few people thought he'd be a bust. If you watched any of his games you saw he was lazy and used his athletic talent to get by. That's exactly what he tried to do in the NFL and we all saw how it turned out. Anyone that thought he was going to be good only looked at scores on Monday and hyped up his combine numbers.

OPLookn
04-30-2012, 11:28 AM
From Piolis draft interview I feel the organization did their due diligence on Poe.

The same questions the draft "experts" have on Dontari were addressed by Pioli. The Chiefs went back and looked at every snap he took and determined that on 49% of his plays the ball was released so fast that Poe had a 0% chance of making a play. The same 50% the "experts" say he took off the play the Chiefs did the homework on and formulated a real world statistic.

Don't believe the negative hype, Poe will be a beast. He needs to work on his two technique but what rookie doesn't have something they can improve.

I'm tentatively giving Pioli a B- on this draft. Poe has a ton of upside and I was completely pissed when they announced the pick. But Poe does have the talent to get there.

The upsides, the Memphis coaching staff moved him around to try and guess where the play was going which meant he had to learn a lot of positions. Here he'll just have one roll to play and a great coach to help him learn so I think he'll start excelling. The guy has a motor and is quick. This will help him do whatever we need him to do. He's insanely strong and when he keeps his pads down even two guys can't stop him.

The downsides, he tends to stand up or get his pads up high which easily lets one defender push him off the ball. I watched several clips (vs Tulane) where one guy got him up high and drove him 3 yards off the line. Then the RB scooted right by him because he didn't disengage. He tries to do a spin move which I hope to God isn't something he does without thinking. In the NFL he'll just be passed off to a C, G or T.

I do have to say that I watched a lot of the game tape he had this last year and they did run away from Poe's position where ever he was. In the Tulane game you can see that they do a LOT of jail break and screen plays to minimize Poe rushing.

The rest of the draft I like save the Donald Stephenson pick. I'm not sure if we'll be using him as a swing tackle or if he's purely depth. If he's depth then I'm not as upset about it. But I hope to all that's holy that he's not a replacement for Albert in case he leaves.

As for the rest of the stuff Pioli has done, A++++++++++!

chiefnut
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
stephenson i think was picked again for his potential. very quick, athletic, good footwork, but not strong against bull rushes. strength can be gained w/training program. if he adds some weight and gets stronger he may become a pretty good LT.

nigeriannightmare
05-01-2012, 11:06 AM
To be fair I don't think anyone thought he would be a bust.

eSPN did an article, may have been sports illustrated. Simething about women and scouting. Anyhow it stated that at his pro day he came in chubby and that he made .less than 50% of one throw, thats required by all nfl qbs.

Everyone was in love with his size and how big his hands were they ignored the things he wasnt doing well. Most scouts knew he wasnt gonna make it.

buffman316
05-01-2012, 11:27 AM
If Matt C has a tough year it will be the end of his tenure in Kansas City. In fairness, this will be the first year he has a decent O Line and tons of weapons, so I do expect him to be much improved. No QB in the league can be very successful with a porous o line and I think people will be surprised at how well Cassel does. It remains to be seen but he has to be excited about this off season.

KristofLaw
05-01-2012, 02:55 PM
The Chargers pass rusher they got looked like a bad ***.


Its been a solid offseason but no where near an A+


According to you. The man has an opinion and you have yours, so he gives the draft an A+... I'd give it similar. You are an eternal pessimist or from another team.

Bike
05-01-2012, 03:07 PM
The Chargers pass rusher they got looked like a bad ***.


Its been a solid offseason but no where near an A+
This is a Chiefs forum. By looking at your screen name, you should consider going to the Cowboys board - and quickly.

Bike
05-03-2012, 03:40 AM
Orton played and played well during our biggest win in 20 years against GB.
But he's gone. He's not a Chief. Biggest win in 20 years? I don't think so.

AkChief49
05-03-2012, 07:41 AM
If Matt C has a tough year it will be the end of his tenure in Kansas City. In fairness, this will be the first year he has a decent O Line and tons of weapons, so I do expect him to be much improved. No QB in the league can be very successful with a porous o line and I think people will be surprised at how well Cassel does. It remains to be seen but he has to be excited about this off season.
Also, Cassel will now face two former teammates that he used to back up @ USC. He will be seeing Palmer and his new back up Matt Leinart twice this year. That has to have some incentive behind it. At least I hope it does.
I agree with you. The O line is starting to really look good. Winston was a great signing. Pioli drafted good depth. Even with Carr gone I think this defense is going to be getting better and better.

OPLookn
05-03-2012, 11:50 AM
But he's gone. He's not a Chief. Biggest win in 20 years? I don't think so.

I'm pretty sure MMO meant in the last 20 years against GB, not in 20 years overall.

nigeriannightmare
05-03-2012, 02:58 PM
I'm pretty sure MMO meant in the last 20 years against GB, not in 20 years overall.

We used to beat them when bret favre, reggie white, and sterling shatpe were in their prime, thats 3 hall of famers. It was our bigget win last yr but hardly in 20 even if its geen bay.

LlamaNinja
05-03-2012, 04:25 PM
What has been a bigger win in the past 20 years than beating a 13-0 defending super bowl champs?
Winning a playoff game....getting to the AFC Championship game

jap1
05-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Winning a playoff game....getting to the AFC Championship game

The last Playoff win was January 14, 1994 so I guess he actually means in the last 18 years.

Also, in his defense, he created that name a day or two after we won the GB game, its not like he created it after Orton was signed by Dallas.

Anyways, who cares what his name is.

He doesnt like a lot of stuff Pioli has done, but some of it he does and he has voiced his pleasure on certain signings. He even started a thread to say that everyone shouldnt complain about the Poe pick.
He is a fan, just a very vocal, critical and pessimistic fan compared to many others.

figcrostic
05-03-2012, 06:50 PM
FA: A+
Draft: B I was happy for the most part there were some lost opportunities I think but overall good draft. BTW I liked Poe, but it was risky.

Combined: A-

matthewschiefs
05-03-2012, 08:38 PM
He is a fan, just a very vocal, critical and pessimistic fan compared to many others.

I would agree with this.

I don't agree with MMO on much but I have never got the sense that he was just trolling. I think he's blaming the wrong people for the state the Chiefs have been in for the past few years but he is intitled to his opinion as well.

matthewschiefs
05-03-2012, 08:41 PM
For a grade I give Pioli an A for this offseason. With the chance of it being an A+

Free agents addressed the biggest need on this team with getting the best guy out there. Winston even said himself he was impressed with how much the Chiefs let it be known that they wanted him and they didn't let him leave without being signed. Can't do much better then that.

Draft. Again kept working on the biggest weakness the O line with a couple of picks. Not so sure about the Poe pick but I have been wrong about a number of Pioli picks in the past I will give it a chance. If Poe does work out I don't think it's to hard at all to give him the A+

nigeriannightmare
05-03-2012, 10:19 PM
What has been a bigger win in the past 20 years than beating a 13-0 defending super bowl champs?

2000, the undefeated in state st louis rams and the greatest show on tuef were beat down at arrowhead, they went on to win the superbowl and not lose the first playoff game they played in.

KCCF
05-04-2012, 06:04 AM
Everyone was in love with his size and how big his hands were they ignored the things he wasnt doing well. Most scouts knew he wasnt gonna make it.

Hm...sounds like our pick.

nigeriannightmare
05-04-2012, 09:38 AM
Hm...sounds like our pick.

Ezcept in our case we were gonna be able to trade back and get him later in the first and getting an extra pick or 2, then he blew up at the combine, the combine hurt us. Russel was always a top 2 pick.

nigeriannightmare
05-05-2012, 09:53 AM
We stopped what would of been an undefeated season to the defending SB champs. Much bigger

Sorry im a kc guy, beating st louis, when they were dubbed the greatest show on turf and were undefeatedis a much bigger win than beating the packers who we are 6-3-1 agajnst.

nigeriannightmare
05-05-2012, 09:24 PM
They didnt play on turf when we beat them ; )

I may be wrong but arrowhead wasnt grass until recently...we were an outdoor turf stadium.

AkChief49
05-06-2012, 04:34 PM
I may be wrong but arrowhead wasnt grass until recently...we were an outdoor turf stadium.
1994 Arrowhead went to grass. 1972 -1993 it was astro turf.
Whether it's natural, or artificial.....it's still turf:D

Three7s
05-06-2012, 06:30 PM
2000, the undefeated in state st louis rams and the greatest show on tuef were beat down at arrowhead, they went on to win the superbowl and not lose the first playoff game they played in.
Wrong, the Rams won it in 1999. The Ravens won the SB in 2000. Beating the Rams in 2000 was nice and comparable to beating the Packers last year, but the fact remains they did not win or even make the SB in 2000.

nigeriannightmare
05-06-2012, 08:29 PM
Wrong, the Rams won it in 1999. The Ravens won the SB in 2000. Beating the Rams in 2000 was nice and comparable to beating the Packers last year, but the fact remains they did not win or even make the SB in 2000.

Makes my point stronger as they were the undefeated superbowl champs.

OPLookn
05-07-2012, 11:27 AM
Makes my point stronger as they were the undefeated superbowl champs.

In 2000 they went 10-6. It's not like they were world beaters that next year. They barely made the wild card game and then lost in it.

Either way, they were both good wins. The only time I'd say a win is a big win is if it keeps us in the playoff race, gets us into the playoffs or it's a playoff/super bowl win.

chief31
05-08-2012, 03:26 PM
Any playoff-clinching win is bigger than a regular season win, for a team that sits home the postseason.


I would agree with this.

I don't agree with MMO on much but I have never got the sense that he was just trolling. I think he's blaming the wrong people for the state the Chiefs have been in for the past few years but he is intitled to his opinion as well.

You have never gotten the sense that he is just trolling?

I realize he is just an over-the-top anti-Pioli Chiefs fan. I do.

But to say you have never gotten that sense from him? Surely you are just being exaggeratively nice about it. :D

I get that feeling from every other comment I see from him. Again.... I know he is not just a troll. But I absolutely get the sense that he is trolling, quite often. :lol:

figcrostic
05-08-2012, 04:32 PM
Any playoff-clinching win is bigger than a regular season win, for a team that sits home the postseason.



100% agree I would rather beat a 8-8 team in the playoffs then a 15-0 team in the regular season. It's not even close!

matthewschiefs
05-08-2012, 07:15 PM
Any playoff-clinching win is bigger than a regular season win, for a team that sits home the postseason.



You have never gotten the sense that he is just trolling?

I realize he is just an over-the-top anti-Pioli Chiefs fan. I do.

But to say you have never gotten that sense from him? Surely you are just being exaggeratively nice about it. :D

I get that feeling from every other comment I see from him. Again.... I know he is not just a troll. But I absolutely get the sense that he is trolling, quite often. :lol:

OK OK i worded something wrong leave it to you to call me out on it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I guess I should have said I don't think he's just a troll he has his opinion and he is not shy about shareing it. There are times I think he is just being a smart A** and makes comments that can be seen as trolling but I don't think he's just here to troll

HaliForPresident
05-08-2012, 08:57 PM
If Matt C has a tough year it will be the end of his tenure in Kansas City. In fairness, this will be the first year he has a decent O Line and tons of weapons, so I do expect him to be much improved. No QB in the league can be very successful with a porous o line and I think people will be surprised at how well Cassel does. It remains to be seen but he has to be excited about this off season.

I still don't understand where the idea that Chiefs have had a bad OL is coming from. Cassel got sacked a lot his first season here. Guess what, he got sacked even more when he started for the Patriots. Charles and the #1 rushing team in the NFL a couple years ago seemed to think the OL was pretty darn good. Moral of the story: Patriots didn't have a bad line, either did chiefs, Cassel just didn't release the ball quick enough and made his OL look bad (he is improving since then though)

nigeriannightmare
05-08-2012, 09:07 PM
I still don't understand where the idea that Chiefs have had a bad OL is coming from. Cassel got sacked a lot his first season here. Guess what, he got sacked even more when he started for the Patriots. Charles and the #1 rushing team in the NFL a couple years ago seemed to think the OL was pretty darn good. Moral of the story: Patriots didn't have a bad line, either did chiefs, Cassel just didn't release the ball quick enough and made his OL look bad (he is improving since then though)

Barry richardson was the worst rated right tackle in the game to say he sucked is being nice.

matthewschiefs
05-08-2012, 11:48 PM
Barry richardson was the worst rated right tackle in the game to say he sucked is being nice.

THIS

Chiefster
05-09-2012, 11:47 PM
Never trolled, not once! I have always posted what I believe


Larry the Cable Guy - Cripple Stool - YouTube

nigeriannightmare
05-11-2012, 09:04 AM
Never trolled, not once! I have always posted what I believe

We know despite mountaina of data to disprove u....continue to argue ur opinion. You want a qb that averages 13 pts a game, throws one td in 3 games, pioli sucks, tj is a bust, and we only succeed against bad teams.....did i miss something. Oh yeah we are doomed to mediocrity.

chiefnut
05-11-2012, 01:55 PM
We know despite mountaina of data to disprove u....continue to argue ur opinion. You want a qb that averages 13 pts a game, throws one td in 3 games, pioli sucks, tj is a bust, and we only succeed against bad teams.....did i miss something. Oh yeah we are doomed to mediocrity.



please archive that post somewhere to be reviewed at the end of this season

i am not a t jackson fan but i do feel this team...barring injuries..... will be the best of the west, not mired in mediocrity!!:chiefs:

nigeriannightmare
05-11-2012, 02:50 PM
please archive that post somewhere to be reviewed at the end of this season

i am not a t jackson fan but i do feel this team...barring injuries..... will be the best of the west, not mired in mediocrity!!:chiefs:

I dont think that my man orton thinks that.

OPLookn
05-11-2012, 05:06 PM
We know despite mountaina of data to disprove u....continue to argue ur opinion. You want a qb that averages 13 pts a game, throws one td in 3 games, pioli sucks, tj is a bust, and we only succeed against bad teams.....did i miss something. Oh yeah we are doomed to mediocrity.

Troll

:troll31: :lol:

Kidding. Oh, don't forget that we've had the biggest win in 20 yrs last year. So there's no hope for this year either probably.

slc chief
05-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Yes with Orton. But with Cassel we are doomed to mediocrity. Everyone was going nuts over beating GB, then having 2 blocked FG to lose to oakland and then go to denver and beat them. But the thing is cassel wasn't our qb. When he was, it was just mediocre results like getting blown out 31-3 to a 0-7 miami dolphin team at home
just for fun the guy who called all of the offensive plays for miami in that blow out. is our new oc. haley was a huge problem for us last year. this team is going to smack some people around

matthewschiefs
05-11-2012, 10:39 PM
Yes with Orton. But with Cassel we are doomed to mediocrity. Everyone was going nuts over beating GB, then having 2 blocked FG to lose to oakland and then go to denver and beat them. But the thing is cassel wasn't our qb. When he was, it was just mediocre results like getting blown out 31-3 to a 0-7 miami dolphin team at home

Here are a couple of facts that you keep ignoring.

Fact 1 While Orton was in there the offense had the same BIG problem they did with Cassel they could move into the red zone then come to a complete stop and settle for field goal after field goal. Yes the Green Bay game was good but 1 out of 3 games you think that's a good result?

Fact 2. Coaching. What happend the only play Orton had under Haley. It was a silly gimmick play and Orton got hurt. Haley had his imput in the offense and not all the input was good. With Romeo there was not as many people involved with the offense. Orton got to play in that offense Cassel didn't it's apples to oranges. We never saw Cassel play with the coaching makeup that we saw Orton play in those 3 games. We will never no if Cassel could have done what Orton did under the same conditions

matthewschiefs
05-12-2012, 12:39 AM
Betting rating, better record, better YPG all in a week's practice

Once again HE HAD MORE THEN A WEEK Don't lie about that that's why people think your a troll. He was signed on Nov 22nd first start DEC 18th THATS MORE THEN A WEEK.

And again your ignoring the coaching situation. Don't you think a coaching change has some affect on an offense? Wouldn't you say that's fair to say? I'm not saying Cassel would have been as good as Orton was I'm just saying you can't compare what players did under 2 different Head coaches. Does that sound to unreasonable to you?

Also lets not declare that Cassel will be mediocre with this coaching staff just yet. The new OC turned Reggie Bush from what people would say is mediocre to a 1,000 yard rusher in the NFL. He could do the same with Cassel turn him from mediocre to much better or even help Cassel take a step to being one of the better QBs in the NFL.

#58ChiefsFan
05-12-2012, 09:12 AM
:beat_DeadHorse:

matthewschiefs
05-12-2012, 12:56 PM
He had a week's practice if that. Remember he was "questionable" leading up to the game vs gb? Crennel stated Stanzi or Orton would start that week. I will say that a qb who has had all of offseason practice time and preseason has much more of an advantage vs someone who comes in with an entirely different team with an entirely different coaching staff. It's not even close. Cassel was a bust in 09, cream puff schedule in 10 and bust in 11. Our new OC also was apart of a team with a 0-7 start and got their coach fired. (And Mangini) But dont worry Matt, in september we will be able to see "Flat Passes Galore" from Cassel

Orton was Questionable because he was put in to the game against the bears was given a stupid gimmick play and got hurt. Since when is it only a week from NOV 22nd to DEC 18th. That's almost a month with his new team. You wonder why people call you a troll? Now NOV 22nd to Dec 18th is " a week if that" ? The game going against the bears he had almost 2 weeks of pratice. He was inactive against the steelers in between when he was claimed to the game against the bears. Stop just making things up to suit your opinion. Nov 22nd to DEC 4 is more then a week and that was to the Bears game not the Packers. Now if you want to say that Cassel had more time with the team ok no problem but don't try to make Orton look like he was just blindly throw in there.

That OC was on a team that fired there coach yes but that coach was going to be fired outside anything but a superbowl. If you recall they went after Jim Harbaugh last year. They had there eyes on Jeff Fisher even before the season began last year. He was dead man walking and everyone knew it. They start 0-7 but they got on a real role. And offense was not the only reason they were 0-7 the TEAM was 0-7 not the offense.

Are you really going to judge Cassel by his 09 year? Really? What QB in the NFL would have done well on that team. That was for the most part the same team that went 2-14 in 08. With a rookie head coach. They beat the then defending superbowl champs that year. They doubled the win total from 08. Under Cassel in 09 they were a whole lot better then they were the 08 season. 2010 The Chiefs were the best team in the AFC WEST. That is a FACT. Point to the "cream puffs" they played but those "cream puffs" beat every one eles in the West at least twice. They didn't beat the Chiefs. Matt Cassel did better against the "cream puffs" then Philp Rivers and Orton and whoever it was with the faiders then. 2011 show me a QB that would not suffer losing the MVP of the offense. Show me a QB that wouldn't suffer losing your biggest Red zone threat. Cassel has to be better then he was last year but he was also not put in that great of a situation you can't ignore that.

I understand you don't like this management and Cassel but you have to give them credit where it is due. This team is a whole lot better then it was at the end of the 2008 season. Cassel is a part of that. We now have a pretty solid O line and are getting our weapons back. If you still think Cassel is the biggest problem this offense has I say go back and watch Tyler Palko.

nigeriannightmare
05-12-2012, 03:17 PM
:beat_DeadHorse:

He doesnt get it dude. Same argument over and over. Its actuallly entertaining.

slc chief
05-12-2012, 07:30 PM
He doesnt get it dude. Same argument over and over. Its actuallly entertaining.
enertaining but it is getting played out.

TopekaRoy
05-12-2012, 07:31 PM
He doesnt get it dude. Same argument over and over. It's actuallly entertaining.

It is kind of fun when he keeps throwing lies out there!


... I will say that a qb who has had all of offseason practice time and preseason has much more of an advantage

What offseason practice? Have you already forgotten that there was a lockout last year and a very much shortened preseason?


... Our new OC also was apart of a team with a 0-7 start and got their coach fired....

They started Chad Henne for 3 of those games and he sucked. It took Matt Moore 4 games to get the offense down because he came in as a back-up and he is not much better than Henne. Once he did though, The 'Fins went 7-2. That's a pretty good record. And That OC who got that kind of performance out of Matt Moore now has a real QB to work with.

You seem to ignore the facts surrounding the stats that you "cherry pick" (only counting less than half of a season). You start with a preconceived opinion and then twist stats and facts to support that opinion, or just make up your own facts.

Even if you are going to come to foolish conclusions you should still start with real facts!

matthewschiefs
05-13-2012, 05:09 PM
And what lies Roy?

I would start by saying the idea that you have that Orton Had "a week if that" before the Packers game

TopekaRoy
05-13-2012, 05:56 PM
And what lies Roy?


[Orton] He had a week's practice if that. Lie #1. He practiced with the team for almost a month. In fact there were only a couple of days were he couldn't practice because of the injury, but he was still AT practice and participated in strategy and game-planning.


I will say that a qb who has had all of offseason practice time and preseason has much more of an advantage Lie #2. You can't really believe playing catch with your receivers a few times during a lockout is the same as a full offseason of organized professional NFL practices, can you?


Our new OC also was apart of a team with a 0-7 start and got their coach fired. Lie #3. Daboll is not the reason Mangini got fired. Once Matt Moore learned the offense, the team went 6-3 and averaged 23.9 PPG, scoring 30 or more points in 4 of those games. How is it HIS fault Mangini got fired?

And that's just in ONE post!

#58ChiefsFan
05-13-2012, 09:10 PM
http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10172/smiley-face-popcorn.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

Dang it Roy now I have to keep reading this thread

nigeriannightmare
05-14-2012, 10:10 AM
Yeah daboll has been great, we are getting a real game planning genius here. From 2 losing organizations now he is with us. I bet teams were just running to sign him.

So Cassel's preseason practices werent professonal NFL practices? During the Preseason they weren't professional nfl practices? He even had 4 preseason games to get going. Then he had regular season practice. Orton who had been playing behind Tebow gets cut we sign him, he gets hurt and then we start him with very little practice time. If you dont understand the difference between both of their situations, something is seriously wrong

Look at the season peytpn hilis had under daboll and reggie bush lasy year. U straight up only look at facts to support your opinion where as no one else can have one...but you the all knowing qb and hc guru are. U r cimpletely not objectiive, u argue about as well as my children do. I feel bad for ppl who cant find the postive in anything so crennel and dabol suck now. I cant wait for tjis season to start ur gonma have tk eat crow every sunday and its gonna be flippin awesome.

ctchiefsfan
05-14-2012, 10:47 AM
I cant wait for tjis season to start ur gonma have tk eat crow every sunday and its gonna be flippin awesome.

Well said!

matthewschiefs
05-14-2012, 02:23 PM
If you remember Crennel sayiing "We will either go with Stanzi or Orton depending on Orton's health on Sunday." Speculation would say Orton didn't even have a week to prepare for that game. You are comparing a qb who has been in KC since 2009 to a qb who joined the team late in the 2011 season, hurt his hand and then came back to go 2-1

So all the other time Orton had to practice did nothing for him? Under your logic I can say that about every start by Cassel. He had only a week to get ready for every game he played. With the exception of the games that came after the bye week. Cassel only had a week for prepare for each game he played to. But I am sure since you don't like Cassel that is just an excuse for him.

Yes Cassel had been in KC longer but the thing you ignore time and time again is the coaching change that was made. Cassel always had The OC AND Haley putting there input on the offense. He had to please to many masters. Orton never had a start under those same conditions Cassel never started in the conditions that Orton did with the coaching staff. And once again outside the packers game the offense had the same problem they could get to the redzone but they couldn't get the touchdown. So it's not like all the problems were solved with Orton in there.

ctchiefsfan
05-14-2012, 02:46 PM
So all the other time Orton had to practice did nothing for him? Under your logic I can say that about every start by Cassel. He had only a week to get ready for every game he played. With the exception of the games that came after the bye week. Cassel only had a week for prepare for each game he played to. But I am sure since you don't like Cassel that is just an excuse for him.

Yes Cassel had been in KC longer but the thing you ignore time and time again is the coaching change that was made. Cassel always had The OC AND Haley putting there input on the offense. He had to please to many masters. Orton never had a start under those same conditions Cassel never started in the conditions that Orton did with the coaching staff. And once again outside the packers game the offense had the same problem they could get to the redzone but they couldn't get the touchdown. So it's not like all the problems were solved with Orton in there.

I wonder if we will still be having this debate in 10 years? Shouldn't it have ended when Orton went to Dallas?

nigeriannightmare
05-14-2012, 03:26 PM
I wonder if we will still be having this debate in 10 years? Shouldn't it have ended when Orton went to Dallas?

One would think, but MMO will still be bringing up ortons one week of practice and yhe chiefs greatest win 20 yrs. oh yeah dabol, ctrennel, and pioli suck...MMO will make sure we never forget.

O
Orton

signed a conract to be a backup, he was never interested in staying in kc.

LlamaNinja
05-14-2012, 05:15 PM
What if mmo is really Orton and is trying to get himself back to KC where he can start? hehe

ctchiefsfan
05-14-2012, 06:06 PM
He'd still have to beat out Cassel and whether you like Cassel or not, it appears from his actions that Orton had some serious doubts about his ability to take the starter's job from Cassel.

I still think MMO needs to move to a Dallas Fan Board or just STFU about Orton. He's gone. History. Yesterday's news.

The Win over Green Bay was a TRIUMPH and I for one would have liked to have seen Orton stay here and fight for the starters job.

But it a gonna happen. Orton is not a Chief. Out with the old and in with the new!

LlamaNinja
05-15-2012, 11:03 AM
Starting for the Chiefs at qb would be much too easy
So was starting for the Broncos but that didnt stop him from screwing that up....:lol:

OPLookn
05-15-2012, 11:41 AM
Starting for the Chiefs at qb would be much too easy


So was starting for the Broncos but that didnt stop him from screwing that up....:lol:

...and Chicago.

Seriously MMO, give it up. You've distorted so many things that I'm not even sure I know what the meaning of statistics is. Oh yeah, that's right making things work for your arguments.

Bottom line, Orton was signed almost a month before he started. That gave him time to learn the playbook and then he had...I'll give you "almost a week"...whatever, to practice. This means he had learned a lot of the playbook that was going to be run before he started practicing.

That's a HUGE difference from what you're trying to infer that he came in and in a single week learned the playbook, practiced with the starters and figured out timing. He knows about the speed the game is played at, knew our playbook and spent the week learning the timing.

Flat out Orton isn't a savior, if he had better numbers than Cassel it was only marginally better at best. The worst is that the guy is so scared of competition that he's cried his way out of two teams, said he wouldn't show up if KC got him, promptly ate crow and came to KC and then ran off to Dallas as soon as he could. The guy simply wants his job handed to him to throw up mediocre number.

That is all...now back to your regularly scheduled MMO :beat_DeadHorse:

ctchiefsfan
05-15-2012, 01:43 PM
Starting for the Chiefs at qb would be much too easy

That may or may not be. Of course he would have had to win the job first and running away to Dallas shows he had little confidence he could do that.

matthewschiefs
05-15-2012, 06:01 PM
Like I said if you can't see the difference between Cassel and Orton's situations this year with the Chiefs you are delusional. But dont worry, I'm sure you will be making excuses for cassel just like every other member on this site for years to come

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU

Cassel and Orton had different situations. Yet you want to say see Orton proved he was better. They were never in the same spot. He had 1 good game. Then the offense had the SAME problem that it did with Cassel they could move the ball but couldn't get tds instead they had to take field goal trys and it coast them the Oakland game. Yet you seem to think Orton was an all star. And want to make up things like he had "only a week" when in fact he almost had a month to Make Orton seem better

matthewschiefs
05-15-2012, 06:11 PM
My logic tells me if someone who has not played in awhile, has no chemistry with his coaches or his WR and has a better rating, ypg and winning pctg than a qb who has been here since 2009 with the same team then Orton is the better suitor. When did Cassel ever move the ball? His YPG were less than 200

My logic tells me that if a team changes head coaches then the offense is changed. It's not the SAME. Cassel had to deal with both the OC and Haley. Orton didn't it's not the same. Don't pretend it was.

Did you watch this team last year. Time and time again they would get into field goal range. Even at times with Palko. Ortons numbers are better because of the green Bay game. Green Bay was one of the worst Ds in the NFL last year. Outside of the 1 game Orton and Cassel had about the same results. 1 game doesn't prove anyones better.

nigeriannightmare
05-15-2012, 10:23 PM
My logic tells me that if a team changes head coaches then the offense is changed. It's not the SAME. Cassel had to deal with both the OC and Haley. Orton didn't it's not the same. Don't pretend it was.

Did you watch this team last year. Time and time again they would get into field goal range. Even at times with Palko. Ortons numbers are better because of the green Bay game. Green Bay was one of the worst Ds in the NFL last year. Outside of the 1 game Orton and Cassel had about the same results. 1 game doesn't prove anyones better.

U arguing logic with someone illogical. Its the nfl, paid professionals, we win a division 2 yrs being removed from a 2 and 14, 2 whole wins in 2008, to division champs and had orton been a ble to throw a freaking td in the oakland game, division champs 2 yrs in a row. He loves that orton threw for 300 yards against the leagues worst defense and still didnt throw a bloody td. Apparently 27 tds vs 7 ints doesnt count even tho phillip rivers and kyle orton played the same weak schedule we did.

And MMO i believe everyone on this site has said this is cassels year if he cant get it done time to look elsewhere. But come next winter when we r division champs im sure it wont be because of coaching or cassels play it will be because of some reason u make up.

#58ChiefsFan
05-15-2012, 11:31 PM
I hate to get involved in this but in addition to what nightmare said Cassel is not going to get a full season if he can't get it done. While Quinn isn't the second coming of Tom Brady he was brought in by this coaching staff for a reason.

matthewschiefs
05-16-2012, 01:33 AM
If we win the division next year it will be because of our running game and defense, definitely not our qb.

I just cant wrap my mind around it that cassel who has been here since 2009, was at more of a disadvantage this year vs someone coming late in the season and knowing nothing about our team or offense and performing better than the guy thats been here 2 seasons. I just cant even comprehend it

Who has said Cassel was at more of a disavantage? You're missing whats being said

1st Orton had about a month to learn the playbook before he started that's a lot of time. Was it as much time as Cassel no it wasn't BUT then theres pont 2

2 The coaching change. Means there were some changes in the offense. We didn't see Cassel under Romeo as head coach we only saw Orton. We don't know what Cassel would have done we can make guesses but we just don't no.

The offense was better during the Green Bay game but you have to consider that Green Bay was one of the worst defenses in the NFL. If you want to throw out all of Cassels good games due to a weak opponent then you have to do the same When Orton goes against a weak defense. You can't hold Cassel to one standard and Orton to anther. Outside of the Packers game the offense looked slightly better at best. They moved the ball but still couldn't get the touchdown they had to settle for 3 way to much. It coast them the Oakland game. The D won the Denver game not Orton.

I don't think a single person on here would argue if you were to say Cassel has to be better then what he has. But you refuse to give Cassel any credit for anything good saying he did it against "creampuffs" So I ask you were we beating those "cream puffs" in 08? No we were one of the Cream puffs. No matter how much you might want to deny it Cassel has done some good. We now have a new OC and a head coach who won't also be sticking his nose in the offense on gameday to the point where it hurts the offense like Haley did. Give Cassel a chance under the new coaching. If he's not better then yes they need to move on and get a new QB. But don't act like it's not possible for Cassel to do good things when he has already

matthewschiefs
05-16-2012, 02:37 AM
Matt this is what I am trying to say, if we can pick up a qb after being cut, he comes in with less than a week's reps with starters and HE STILL PLAYS BETTER THAN OUR STARTING QB IT HAS TO MaKe YOU QUESTION MATT CASSEL, EVERY Chiefs fan if you like him or not should agree to this

Less then a week is STILL NOT RIGHT no matter how many time you want to try to claim that Nov 22nd to Dec 18th is a week that is a hell of a long week it's NOT RIGHT STOP IT . He missed a few days of pratice after he got hurt but still had well more then a week.

What excuses have been made? Loseing Charles. You don't think that had a impact? Really? That's not an excuse it's a fact. But unlike you we don't leave out facts that don't help our opinion

You give Orton credit for the green bay win but won't give Cassel credit for an AFC west title. The packers had one of the worst defense in the NFL last year. If you throw out all of Cassels good games because of bad opponents they why don't you do the same with Orton? Orton played against a pretty bad Packers d Orton did well against one of the worst ds in the NFL then what happend 1TD in the next 2 games. Hardly setting the world on fire.

And yet again you leave out key parts of what happend.
WHY WON'T YOU ACKNOWLEDGE the coaching change? You don't think that a team changing head coaches has an affect on a team and how things are ran? Can you tell me that? Of course it affects the team. We NEVER saw Cassel without Haley as headcoach with this team. That's a fact. Just because it may not help your opinion on it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Doesn't mean changing head coaches didn't have an affect. You NEVER have acknowledged this. You leave out key facts then wonder why people think your a troll? The facts are the facts. Orton was 2-1 as the starter under Romeo Cassel never played for Romeo all his starts were for Todd Haley.

matthewschiefs
05-16-2012, 03:17 AM
Stop with the month stuff. HE HAD A HURT finger that he injured against Chicago and his first week of practice (if that) was the week leading to the GB game. So he was able to practice and get reps with the offense for less than a week. I am not only talking about the GB game but the rest of the season as well. He played better, thats a fact.


Orton was claimed on the 22nd of Nov he had snaps with the 1st team going into the Pittsburgh game. Not much I grant you but he had some He had snaps going into the bears game. There was talk that he would be the starter. Haley decided for whatever reason to stick with Palko. He missed a few days after he got hurt but had a couple of days before the jets game. Then he had the week before the packers. No matter how you want to spin it he had more then a weeks worth of pratice.


I am not saying you are directly blaming Cassel's bad play on the coach but comments like thte one in bold lead me to believe that you are. Cassel had the same coach in 2010 as he did in 2011 did he not? Orton and Cassel had the same OC, the same RB, the same WR. Stop blaming Cassel's possible bad play on the coach. ENOUGH. Time and time again I see members like Chief 31 say "Cassel's running game was depleted and didnt have enough time to adjust during the season." Look at him for what he is. He has great numbers against bad teams and bad numbers against good teams. He doesn't have the capability to lead a team without a great running game. We have seen it the past 3 seasons. He is NOT a capable quarterback. When the running game is shot he sucks.

I am not putting it all on Haley. But Haley was a part of it IMO. What it is I am saying and what others are saying is that the change of head coaches meant that some things were done differently. Romeo did not do the same exact thing that Todd Haley did. There were some changes made in regard to the makeup of the gameplan Romeo was the one making the final decisions not Haley. IT WAS DIFFERENT. That's all I'm saying.

Look no one is saying Cassel has been great. But he hasn't been as bad as you make him out to be. And I will grant you if you go back and look at the game threads and threads from the game weeks last year there was a good while I was calling for a change to. Then we saw Tyler Palko. Then we all I think gained a little respect for Matt Cassel. I have never been one to say that your just a troll. But if you think that you can say that a change in the head coach and the OC Can't possibly help Cassel then I would say you're just trolling. We don't know yet what the new OC has planned. He turned Reggie Bush from a punt returner into a 1,000 yard rusher. Maybe he can do good for Cassel. Cassel is not "doomed for mediocrity" Lets just wait and see what he looks like with the new Coaching staff in place before we decide. Maybe Haley just wasn't the right fit for him. Different sport but Michael Jordan Never won a NBA title without Phil Jackson. Sometimes it just takes the right coach maybe just maybe we have that now. It's possible.


And that's the bottom line cause Stone Cold said so.

I was never really a fan of Stone Cold Steve Austin but I don't think he would say anything about the Chiefs. He would be a fan of some team in Texas lol

nigeriannightmare
05-16-2012, 09:29 AM
When you give a guy a long term deal with a load of money you better measure him to a high standard, and Cassel has terribly disappointed us. Please dont bring up the cream puff schedule in 2010 followed by a blow out playoff loss at home again. From the 09-11 season. 18-22 as a starter, 0 playoff wins, 79 qb rating. For the length of contract and money (Which when he signed the deal Peyton manning was the only qb that made more) he has been AWFUL. A horrible long term investment that I hold Pioli responsible for

So kyle orton didnt win in denver with the same, exact same, cream puff schedule that matt cassel kicked arse with. Please explain.

OPLookn
05-16-2012, 12:25 PM
When you give a guy a long term deal with a load of money you better measure him to a high standard, and Cassel has terribly disappointed us. Please dont bring up the cream puff schedule in 2010 followed by a blow out playoff loss at home again. From the 09-11 season. 18-22 as a starter, 0 playoff wins, 79 qb rating. For the length of contract and money (Which when he signed the deal Peyton manning was the only qb that made more) he has been AWFUL. A horrible long term investment that I hold Pioli responsible for

Hmm let's have some fun with this since you loooove trying to get stats that support your opinion. I'm going to give you three QB's stats after their first four years. Then you tell me who the other QB's are and how his career turned out.

I apologize in advance, it doesn't seem to like spaces when attempting to format it and make it all nice and neat. Feel free to pull out the data and put it into excel or something grid like.

Key:
GP - Games Played
CMP - Completions
ATT - Attempts
CMP% - Completion percentage
YDS - Yards
AVG - Average per throw
TD - TD's
LNG - Longest throw
INT - Interceptions
FUM - Fumbles
RAT - Rating

Cassel
QB #1 --- GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
Year #1 - 16 327 516 63.4 3,693 7.16 21 76 11 5 89.4
Year #2 - 15 271 493 55.0 2,924 5.93 16 61 16 5 69.9
Year #3 - 15 262 450 58.2 3,116 6.92 27 75 7 2 93.0
Year #4 -- 9 160 269 59.5 1,713 6.37 10 52 9 4 76.6

QB #2 --- GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
Year #1 - 16 13 23 56.5 96 4.17 1 18 0 0 81.1
Year #2 - 15 176 273 64.5 1,795 6.58 15 71 9 0 87.8
Year #3 - 16 311 488 63.7 3,565 7.31 19 78 12 0 88.4
Year #4 -- 9 213 346 61.6 2,613 7.55 17 55 11 0 88.0

QB #3 --- GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
Year #1 -- 2 0 4 0.0 0 0.00 0 0 2 0 0.0
Year #2 - 15 302 471 64.1 3,227 6.85 18 76 13 6 85.3
Year #3 - 16 318 522 60.9 3,303 6.33 19 66 24 8 72.2
Year #4 - 16 363 582 62.4 3,882 6.67 33 49 14 6 90.7


You complain about Cassel's QB rating so who are the other two that have an average of 86.33 and 82.73 over 4 years?

If you want to talk about wins:


QB #2 went 2-14 in his first year, 6-10 in the second, 13-3 in the third and 3-6 in his fourth year.

QB #3 went 9-7 all three seasons after starting two games in his first year, never making the playoffs.

Scroll on down for your answers....

































QB #2 is Joe Montana
QB #3 is Brett Farve

matthewschiefs
05-16-2012, 02:20 PM
When you give a guy a long term deal with a load of money you better measure him to a high standard, and Cassel has terribly disappointed us. Please dont bring up the cream puff schedule in 2010 followed by a blow out playoff loss at home again. From the 09-11 season. 18-22 as a starter, 0 playoff wins, 79 qb rating. For the length of contract and money (Which when he signed the deal Peyton manning was the only qb that made more) he has been AWFUL. A horrible long term investment that I hold Pioli responsible for

Once again if your going to throw out Cassels good games due to play weak teams then I am going to throw out Ortons due to the weak packers D. You can't throw out ones with out throwing out the others.

Cassels record is what it is. But do you really hold him the cause for it. In 2009 even if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning were the Qb this team was not going to be a winner. He came to a bad football team. Cassel didn't make them bad they were already bad. If I recall the Chiefs led the NFL in dropped passes that year. There were times that Cassel did his job the WR put the ball on the ground. Even our number 1 weapon had a down year that year. It wasn't all Cassels fault. 2010 Cassel helped them win the AFC west. Yeah yeah I no weak schedule but everyone in the AFC west played those teams Cassel won more games then any other QB in the division including Orton. That's a fact. No matter how much you don't like it.

If you want to throw out 2010 then I can throw out 09 due to the talent around him. So we have 2011 if I could give him a grade it would be incomplete. Show me a Qb that wouldn't suffer loseing 2 big weapons. Take Emmit Smith and Michael Irvin away from the 1990s Cowboys do you think Aikman wouldn't have suffered? Take Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison away from Peyton Manning do you really think that he wouldn't suffer. You might want to see it as an excuse but it's fact. Take away 2 big parts of the offense and it's going to hurt.

nigeriannightmare
05-16-2012, 03:38 PM
lmao. I thought Chief 31 had it bad when he said Matt Cassel and Tom Brady were equal but this might just top it off. Matt, he was a bum in 09, a cream puff schedule in 10 and a bum in 11. Just have to face the facts. He isn't good. He didn't even start in front of your boy the bum matt leinart

You are amazingly stubborn and poor at arguing. Ppl offer u mountains of evidence you barely offer any yet you are the only one that can have opinion u concede nothing but everyone else has to concede to you. You call tourself a fan but come to conclusions before this staff has even played a game its amazing.

matthewschiefs
05-16-2012, 03:38 PM
lmao. I thought Chief 31 had it bad when he said Matt Cassel and Tom Brady were equal but this might just top it off. Matt, he was a bum in 09, a cream puff schedule in 10 and a bum in 11. Just have to face the facts. He isn't good. He didn't even start in front of your boy the bum matt leinart

It's post like this that your are simply trolling FACTS are presented you can't argue them so you just say he's a bum. You offer no facts to respond you just say he's a bum

Heres the fact under your logic. Orton is a bum. Why? Because he couldn't beat the same cream puffs in 2010. He lost to them twice. If Cassel is a bum then Orton is two since he couldn't beat the teams that a "bum" did. Or does Orton get judged differently because you happen to like him?

Cassel has a AFC west title under his belt. No matter how much you want to pretend that it didn't happen it did. Philp Rivers, Kyle Orton both played the same cream puffs and lost twice. Or are you going to claim that the cream puffs suddenly became good teams the weeks that Rivers and Orton played them?

ctchiefsfan
05-16-2012, 05:10 PM
Can't we all just put this troll on ignore? I have, but y'all keep quoting him and I wind up seeing his drivel.

matthewschiefs
05-18-2012, 02:57 PM
Those stats would be great and all, but you are being misleading. Those Cassel stats are his 4-7 year, Favre and MOntana's are still when they were very young qb's and new to the league.Compare their 4-7 years and they are not even on the same level.

And please stop bringing up that NE year. Look at bubby brister's stats when john elway got hurt and played for the 98 Broncos. HE had a 99 qb rating for those games that he started. It proves that any bum qb can have good numbers on a great team. Same applies to Cassel.

194 YPG average in 09

207 in 2010

190 in 2011

That is just pathetic


First this is a much better post actually bringing up points to support your opinion instead of just saying he's a bum.

Now Cassel might have been in his 4th-7th year but had he played as much as the other two? Don't you think that makes a difference?

You're right it is easier to look good on a great team. Ok so if it's not right to look at numbers on a great team don't you think that it's also not fair to just look at him numbers on a horrible team. You want to throw out his 08 numbers but then point to his 09 numbers. Is there any Qb that you really think could have been on winner on this team in 09? Really?

As for his number
09 Horrible team also have to consider that the Chiefs in 09 Led the NFL in drops. That had an affect on Cassels numbers that year outside of being on a horrible team.

10 200 yards a game isn't that bad when you consider the fact how much they relied on the running game so much.

11. I know I know you want to say it's an excuse but show me a Qb that wouldn't suffer losing 2 of it's top weapons. Can you show me 1 QB in the NFLs history that lost it's main offensive weapon and the top red zone target and hasn't suffered in the numbers? Can you?

#58ChiefsFan
05-18-2012, 07:28 PM
Aaron Rogers count? The list of guys they lost in 2010 is pretty bad. They lost Grant week 1 and Finley week 4.

56 Barnett, Nick LB 6-2 236 29 8 Oregon State
Bell, Josh CB 5-11 177 25 3 Baylor
42 Burnett, Morgan S 6-1 209 21 R Georgia Tech
54 Chillar, Brandon LB 6-3 237 28 7 UCLA
88 Finley, Jermichael TE 6-5 247 23 3 Texas
25 Grant, Ryan RB 6-1 222 28 4 Notre Dame
91 Harrell, Justin DE 6-4 315 26 4 Tennessee
41 Havner, Spencer TE 6-3 250 27 2 UCLA
59 Jones, Brad LB 6-3 242 24 2 Colorado
29 Martin, Derrick S 5-10 198 25 5 Wyoming
96 Neal, Mike DE 6-3 294 23 R Purdue
74 Newhouse, Marshall G/T 6-4 319 22 R Texas Christian
51 Poppinga, Brady LB 6-3 250 31 6 Brigham Young
27 Smith, Anthony S 6-0 200 27 5 Syracuse
65 Tauscher, Mark T 6-3 320 33 11 Wisconsin

nigeriannightmare
05-18-2012, 08:11 PM
Aaron Rogers count? The list of guys they lost in 2010 is pretty bad. They lost Grant week 1 and Finley week 4.

56 Barnett, Nick LB 6-2 236 29 8 Oregon State
Bell, Josh CB 5-11 177 25 3 Baylor
w42 Burnett, Morgan S 6-1 209 21 R Georgia Tech
54 Chillar, Brandon LB 6-3 237 28 7 UCLA
88 Finley, Jermichael TE 6-5 247 23 3 Texas
25 Grant, Ryan RB 6-1 222 28 4 Notre Dame
91 Harrell, Justin DE 6-4 315 26 4 Tennessee
41 Havner, Spencer TE 6-3 250 27 2 UCLA
59 Jones, Brad LB 6-3 242 24 2 Colorado
29 Martin, Derrick S 5-10 198 25 5 Wyoming
96 Neal, Mike DE 6-3 294 23 R Purdue
74 Newhouse, Marshall G/T 6-4 319 22 R Texas Christian
51 Poppinga, Brady LB 6-3 250 31 6 Brigham Young
27 Smith, Anthony S 6-0 200 27 5 Syracuse
65 Tauscher, Mark T 6-3 320 33 11 Wisconsin

If ur saying ryan gant is the same to the packers as cmhatlrs isbto the chiefs ud br wrong. The defense won the superbowl that year for them wasnt charles woodson lights out that yr. They were a deep team like the chiefs are this year and were not last year.

#58ChiefsFan
05-18-2012, 08:30 PM
I was just saying they lost their RB1 and TE both of whom had nice years the season prior. I wasn't implying that we ran similar schemes but like you said they were deep enough to overcome the injuries. The same way we are being set up now. In my gut I believe our defense is still going to carry us through the season. I hope I'm wrong and Daboll can get the best out of Matt.:chiefs:

matthewschiefs
05-18-2012, 09:06 PM
I was just saying they lost their RB1 and TE both of whom had nice years the season prior. I wasn't implying that we ran similar schemes but like you said they were deep enough to overcome the injuries. The same way we are being set up now. In my gut I believe our defense is still going to carry us through the season. I hope I'm wrong and Daboll can get the best out of Matt.:chiefs:

I think the D is also going to carry this team but the offense will be improved with the guys comeing back. Even Rodgers threw for 500 less yards in 2010 from 09 and about 700 less then 2011 so his numbers were also impacted from the injuries. He's a better qb then Cassel so his numbers didn't take as much of a hit. But they were still impacted a tad.

nigeriannightmare
05-18-2012, 09:11 PM
:bananen_smilies046:
I was just saying they lost their RB1 and TE both of whom had nice years the season prior. I wasn't implying that we ran similar schemes but like you said they were deep enough to overcome the injuries. The same way we are being set up now. In my gut I believe our defense is still going to carry us through the season. I hope I'm wrong and Daboll can get the best out of Matt.:chiefs:

:bananen_smilies046:

matthewschiefs
05-19-2012, 11:38 AM
Posted that before I saw the post above concerning GB. Horrible injuries yet they still went on to win the SB. Why? The primary reason is a great qb.

Even Aaron Rodgers numbers took a hit after he lost his starting RB and TE down 500 yards from 09 700 from 2011 Rodgers is a better QB then Cassel I think anyone would be willing to admit that. But you don't think that losing his starting RB and TE might have been the cause of his numbers being down just a tad? Even on of the best had some affect on him. Cassel was affected more because well he's just not one of the best in the game. No one is saying Cassel is a top qb in the NFL we are just saying he's not a bum and he has won a AFC west title before. Given a chance with a new HC and OC he might be better. Give it a chance.

You mentioned the colts. The myth is that the Colts just lost Peyton Manning. That's what the media wants people to think since well they have there lips on a certain area of Peytons backside. They like to hype up one of there boys. Marvin Harrison was not on that team they also had a new Head coach from the year they won the super bowl. Edgrin James also not on that team. They had lost more then just Peyton Manning. They have lost a number of players over the years. The ESPNs of the world just don't want to tell you that. They want you to think that it was Peyton alone that won all the games and that superbowl Fact is it wasn't.

Of course Cassels numbers were down without Charles. Take Emmit Smith away from the 90s Cowboys and you don't think Aikman's numbers would go down. Charles was the MVP of the offense. What team goes into a season saying we are going to lose the MVP of the offense in week 2? No one think that. Cassel at the time of his injury still had this team around 1st place. Still had 3 games last year with a QB rating of OVER 100. Yeah Yeah you will say they were against "cream puffs" but those Ds were better then the Packers D who Orton went against. SO if you want to throw those out then again you have to throw out Ortons. Matt Cassel was not the sole reason that they lost games last year. There were a number of factors. The head coach was a problem he didn't get the team ready to play that's his job. They could beat the Chargers who were fighting for the division title one week then lost to the winless Dolphins the next. That coach is now gone. There is a new OC on this team. An Oc that last year took someone who many would call a bust and make him look like a NFL rb and a good on. He could do the same with Cassel. IF and that's a big IF I grant you that he can and Cassel can improve and we don't see our Offensive MVP gone in week 2 don't you think that this could be a good team even with Cassel at QB I do. I will wait to see that Cassel is going to fail before I declare he's done.

Coach
05-19-2012, 11:44 AM
Some people are doomed to living a glass half empty kind of life. Don't try arguing with them to change their outlook on life, it is a futile waste of your time.

It is true that Cassel isnt the best QB in the league. It is true that this team could have a better coach or DE or whatever.
But it is also true that this TEAM is overall pretty rock solid in all 3 phases of the game. This team battles and plays hard for it's coach. I expect big things from this team because they have a lot of talent and I choose to view the world as glass half full. To view the world in any other way is a miserable existence. I've seen it my whole life.

Some say I will believe it when I see it. Others say I will SEE it, when I BELIEVE it. Each one of us chooses that path each day in everything we do. I believe the Chiefs are a solid TEAM that has every bit as good of chance of winning the AFC West as any other team in our division. I believe I will see it happen in 2012.

Bike
05-19-2012, 04:26 PM
Some people are doomed to living a glass half empty kind of life. Don't try arguing with them to change their outlook on life, it is a futile waste of your time.

It is true that Cassel isnt the best QB in the league. It is true that this team could have a better coach or DE or whatever.
But it is also true that this TEAM is overall pretty rock solid in all 3 phases of the game. This team battles and plays hard for it's coach. I expect big things from this team because they have a lot of talent and I choose to view the world as glass half full. To view the world in any other way is a miserable existence. I've seen it my whole life.

Some say I will believe it when I see it. Others say I will SEE it, when I BELIEVE it. Each one of us chooses that path each day in everything we do. I believe the Chiefs are a solid TEAM that has every bit as good of chance of winning the AFC West as any other team in our division. I believe I will see it happen in 2012.
I believe you are correct. This blog has kinda strayed off course - discussing Cassel and the draft. Both are indeed important for our success this year, but my intention was to discuss two very important moves that Pioli made that is just as important to our success this year 1) the dismissal of Haley before the end of the season and the naming of Crennel as HC shortly after the season; and 2) not screwing around with Winston and getting him signed before somebody else did. I also like bringing in Bicknell from the Giants as out new OL coach. There is no doubt in my mind that this team will be successful this year. The only bad thing I see is the constant revolving door of our coaches. I supported Haley's dismissal, but I thought it was a bad hire in the first place. And, of course, Romeo isn't getting any younger. Once we have some stability with our management and coaches (a monumental task in todays NFL), there will be no stopping the Chiefs from getting to the Superbowl. Pioli is doing the right things - finally.

ctchiefsfan
05-19-2012, 04:43 PM
This blog has kinda strayed off course

Yup! Seems like almost every thread here for the last few months turns into a "Cassel sucks and we should have kept Orton" thread. For me at least it is getting real tiresome.

matthewschiefs
05-19-2012, 08:17 PM
Matt the colts were contenders every year with manning, the year he doesn't play they fall to pieces. That's how big of an impact a qb has on a team.

I'm not trying to say that losing Peyton wasn't a big issue for them. But do you think they would have fallen all the way to 2-14 if they still had Tony Dungy coaching, Marvin Harrison,Edgrin James they did nothing for that team. Yes Peyton was the BIG blow that finished that era off but they had already had a number of body blows to weaken them first.



Look, it is realistic to say once a qb's weapons go down his numbers will drop, yes they should. But even with Charles out he still has one of the better WR in the game in Dwayne Bowe, now hear me out here I dont think losing Charles gave him THAT much of a blow based on his numbers and record against .500 teams and above in 2010 when he had charles. I think his poor play this year just like 09 was due to the fact he just played a much better schedule and not the weak teams like he did in 2010.

D Bowe is great to have yes. But he can disappear sometimes. It's the one weakness with him. He can have games where you just don't get much out of him. Keep that in mind.

And I just want you to either throw out Ortons great game against the cream puff Packers Defense or give Cassel the credit for 2010. You can't have it both ways. Be fair to both and decided if going against a weak oppent like Cassel did in 2010 and Orton did against the Packers D is reason to disregard there results. You just can have it both ways.

chief31
05-22-2012, 02:19 PM
So if I had a username in reference to Neil Smith who later played for the Denver Broncos that would be disrespectful to KC nation?

Did Neil play for KC for more seasons than Orton's games?

Maybe you are comparing apples to apple stems here?


If we win the division next year it will be because of our running game and defense, definitely not our qb.

I just cant wrap my mind around it that cassel who has been here since 2009, was at more of a disadvantage this year vs someone coming late in the season and knowing nothing about our team or offense and performing better than the guy thats been here 2 seasons. I just cant even comprehend it

What can't you comprehend... moderation?

Coach implied that you are a "glass half empty" person, but I think he was avoiding the real issue here.

You refuse to budge off the "100% hatred" pedestal.

Your glass is empty, and shattered on the floor, as you stomp on it, screaming.

Just out of curiosity... You don't think the team simplified the playbook when they started a QB they just picked up off waivers, do you?

OPLookn
05-22-2012, 02:35 PM
Did Neil play for KC for more seasons than Orton's games?

Maybe you are comparing apples to apple stems here?



What can't you comprehend... moderation?

Coach implied that you are a "glass half empty" person, but I think he was avoiding the real issue here.

You refuse to budge off the "100% hatred" pedestal.

Your glass is empty, and shattered on the floor, as you stomp on it, screaming.

Just out of curiosity... You don't think the team simplified the playbook when they started a QB they just picked up off waivers, do you?

What is this making sense stuff? We simply won't have that here!

:ninerssuck:

Oh and MMO I didn't list Cassel's 1-3 yrs because uhm...he didn't have any and generally people don't judge a player playing behind Tom freakin Brady until he actually plays football. Shocker I know! I mean back up QB don't exist, I suppose I could make some up?

Clipboards completed - CC
Clipboards dropped - CD
Clipboard attempts - CA
Trips to the Gatorade Table - TGT

Year - CC, CD, CA, TGT
2005 - 10, 20, 30, 5
2006 - 38, 15, 43, 3
2007 - 54, 4, 58, 1

Chiefster
05-23-2012, 09:15 AM
Some people are doomed to living a glass half empty kind of life. Don't try arguing with them to change their outlook on life, it is a futile waste of your time.

It is true that Cassel isnt the best QB in the league. It is true that this team could have a better coach or DE or whatever.
But it is also true that this TEAM is overall pretty rock solid in all 3 phases of the game. This team battles and plays hard for it's coach. I expect big things from this team because they have a lot of talent and I choose to view the world as glass half full. To view the world in any other way is a miserable existence. I've seen it my whole life.

Some say I will believe it when I see it. Others say I will SEE it, when I BELIEVE it. Each one of us chooses that path each day in everything we do. I believe the Chiefs are a solid TEAM that has every bit as good of chance of winning the AFC West as any other team in our division. I believe I will see it happen in 2012.

I completely agree! I believe, as much as I'd love to see the Chiefs be SB Champs, that the very fabric of the universe is not bound or unraveled based solely upon the success or failure of the Kansas City Chiefs. :bananen_smilies046:

chiefnut
05-23-2012, 02:36 PM
I completely agree! I believe, as much as I'd love to see the Chiefs be SB Champs, that the very fabric of the universe is not bound or unraveled based solely upon the success or failure of the Kansas City Chiefs. :bananen_smilies046:
damm i thought it was!:chiefs:

Chiefster
05-24-2012, 01:46 AM
damm i thought it was!:chiefs:


:lol::lol::lol:

TopekaRoy
05-24-2012, 02:23 AM
... I suppose I could make some up?

Clipboards completed - CC
Clipboards dropped - CD
Clipboard attempts - CA
Trips to the Gatorade Table - TGT

Year - CC, CD, CA, TGT
2005 - 10, 20, 30, 5
2006 - 38, 15, 43, 3
2007 - 54, 4, 58, 1

:lol: Boy Cassel dropped a LOT of clipboards his first 2 years. Was he trying to spin them on one finger or something?

Terrific stats in 2007, though. I guess he fianlly got the hang of it! :D

Bike
05-25-2012, 03:57 AM
Just out of curiosity... You don't think the team simplified the playbook when they started a QB they just picked up off waivers, do you?
Very true. I believe a huge weight was lifted off this teams shoulders with the dismissal of Haley. The entire team seemed to play more relaxed - they looked like they were having fun out there. I would venture to say that Cassel would have played much better under Romeo if he was healthy those last three games.

brdempsey69
05-25-2012, 01:41 PM
Back on topic, regarding Pioli.

I believe that all of us will agree, that Pioli pulled off one of the sharpest deals that any Chiefs fan could ask for from a GM, when he traded down in the first round in the 2011 draft and took Baldwin and then used the extra 3rd round pick to land Justin Houston.

Baldwin is said to be looking very good in the OTA's thus far & Houston looks like a rising star ( he was terrific in the season final against Denver ) and the other teams that passed on Houston, blew it -- especially the teams that run 3-4 defenses.

chiefnut
05-26-2012, 11:57 AM
baldwin has been a beast so far, lookin much better than last year and houston finished strong should only get even better this year