Just How Bad Cassel Really Is

[Ryfo18]

If you've found yourself to be a Cassel apologist, please read this. If you still are aft you read it, there is no hope for you:

Chiefs The Declaration Of Independence, MO - The People vs. Matthew Gus Brennan Cassel - ChiefsPlanet (http://t.co/SK0The66)

[Hayvern]

WOAH... well let's just say I am not saying a single word about this one.

[#58ChiefsFan]

I wish I had as much free time as whoever wrote that post...

[70 chiefsfan70]

Good find. I've always said Cassel makes a decent OL look horrible.

The dude definately is not the qb to take us to the super bowl unless we have a unmoveable defense and a hell on wheels run game.

But we all knew that.

[matthewschiefs]

Not people on this site

Most on this site prefer ALL the facts included not just the ones that are Bad for certain people. Something that doesn't provide

[Travisk53]

Please send this to Mr. Pioli.....thanks

[Ryfo18]

Someone email this to pioli! Where is Connie Jo. She loves Pioli and Cassel.

Ryfo18 is my new favorite poster, if he says the qb of the future is stanzi i will agree. If he says we should bring back steve bono I agree. I nominate Ryfo as a moderator on this site.

Hey I still like Pioli, and really like Connie Jo.

Cassel to me is just the weakest link in a team that has been built very solid. He's our QB this year, no doubt about it. But he has a long way to go to prove his worth to me. This very well could be his last year as a Chief of he doesn't take a big step forward.

[matthewschiefs]

That link has quite a few facts my friend. You just look for excuses and try to suppress the truth, just like blaming it on the WR.

It's all here. Record, yards per attempt, rating, record in situations (for example we are 3-16 when we throw more than we run) Making the line worse (Sacks in NE and in KC) No deep passing attack etc.

In the past, every single year when a team contains the run we are dead, finished, buried. We can't win. Don't you think that throwing and moving the ball has to do with the qb? We need a guy to step up and play well, a QB THAT PLAYS TO WIN. A qb that can make the deep throws and move the ball down the field. It's obvious from the past we dont have that guy. If you want a qb that plays well against crap teams yet plays absolutely awful against the good teams (59 rating), has a weak deep passing attack, loves to throw to the flats, holds onto the ball way too long gets sacked, is not capable of going out there and consistently win with throwing the ball then Cassel is your guy.


So a Wr dropping a pass has no effect on a QBS numbers????????????? Is that what you're trying to tell me. The Chiefs in 2009 were very close to the record for dropped passes. You don't think that effected Matt Cassel's numbers. I already showed how if you give him just Half of the lower number of drops since Haley had it higher that raised Cassels Completion% 5%. Don't you think that had a impact????????? A drop is a pass that is Catchable that is not caught. Cassel put the ball where the WR could have caught it the ball ended up on the ground. That's not Cassel's fault. It's the WR's job to catch the ball NOT Cassel's what do you expect Cassel to now catch his own passes? Like it or not that IS factor in why some of his numbers are the way they are. Just because it doesn't support your argument doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again I have never said Cassel is a great QB. I just say it's not all on Matt Cassel and the article posted doesn't state all the FACTS just the parts that put it all on Cassel. Where in that did it mention Dropped passes? Where in that did it mention that the winning % went up under Cassel then there 3 years before? Those are Facts they weren't included can you give me a good reason why they weren't?????

[ctchiefsfan]

Gentlemen.....and I use that term loosely....Cassel is going to be our starter at least at the start of the season (barring injury).

There is no point in whining moaning and *****ing about that idiot who collects a Cowboys paycheck now or Stanzi or anybody else. All we're doing is adding hot air to the atmosphere.

Cassel is "the man" right now and there is no point in *****ing about it.

[matthewschiefs]

I dont care about Orton, the only reason I made the name was because I thought Pioli would resign him and he could knock Cassel out of the starting job. If it had been Brady Quinn my name on here would of been "My Man Quinn."

Since dropped passes are now your excuse, Matt show me some dropped pass statistics in the nfl as a team because, because believe it or not, EVERY SINGLE TEAM has dropped passes in the NFL. In fact, last year in 2011 we were not even among the league's worst, as I can see the top 5 were Atlanta, NYG (Who won the SB), Cleveland, Tampa bay, and Philadelphia.

In fact, Breaston our starting WR was 10th in the league with the fewest drops, and we see no Kansas City player in the bottom ranks! We weren't even close to the top in drops! Besides, even if we were up there in drops, there are many great QB's who have WR on this list, yet still put up big numbers and great records. So stop using that as an excuse! NO MORE EXCUSES MATT! SEE THINGS FOR WHAT THEY ARE!

Drop Rate 2011: Which receivers are dropping the ball? | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/)

Ok My man you have convinced me just looking at some facts is a fair way to look at things instead of looking at all the details that have an effect of things so I can now declare the following about MR. Cassel

IN 2009 Matt Cassel was better then Drew Brees,Aaron Rodgers

In 20010 Matt Cassel was better then Drew Brees,Phillip Rivers,Matt Schab,Tom Brady,Peyton Manning,Jay Cuttler

How can I declare this simple we only look at the bare results we don't look into details and all the factors that go into everything that goes into a team and these guys all lost to the "cream puffs" that Cassel beat so the only thing that we can declare just looking at some bare results of things is that Cassel is better. Does that sound fair to you?????????????

[OPLookn]

Wow, I wish I had time to put together half hearted stat's and video's of someone making a bad play. Because that never happens to receivers or running backs. Oops, dropped the ball in the end zone. Oops, fumbled the opening kickoff on opening day.

Look I'm not a supporter and I think he should be replaced. Stuff happens, but this is clearly someone that dislikes Cassel and is trying to make him look as bad as humanly possible. Hey I over threw the ball. Let's look at that clip again, the lineman missed his assignment so Cassel couldn't follow through on the throw. What logically happens when someone can't follow through...the ball drifts. What happened, the ball drifted. OMG!! It's like...physics or something.

Here's another clip I have a problem with. Cassel missed a receiver swinging his hands that's running across the line of scrimmage. Hmm isn't that BOTH sides of the line collapsing? Oh that's right, half of the offensive line is saying hey Matt, sorry about letting the entirety of the the D line in on you.

Yet another clip Bowe being over thrown. Oh cool, why don't we throw a clip up there of Bowe running the wrong route and then shrugging. My bad, lets try that play again D-Bowe likes running routes!

Finally, Cassel dodging a guy and then running for his life and getting sacked. Hrmm, why would Cassel have to dodge two guys? Oh that's right, the O line sucked and let them come rushing in.

This article is clearly saying "I hate Matt Cassel so I'm going to try and find statistics to make him look bad and clips that I can put witty things on. lol, wtf, omg". There are three kinds of lies in the world, lies, damn lies and statistics. For every person that claims look at the facts I can find you another set of facts that contradicts them. The other thing I think almost every clip missed is that the O line sucked. We've worked this year on getting an upgraded line on both sides of the ball which is why I'm not screaming to the high heavens.

With all that said, please replace our QB as it is now our weak link in the team.

[matthewschiefs]

Wow, I wish I had time to put together half hearted stat's and video's of someone making a bad play. Because that never happens to receivers or running backs. Oops, dropped the ball in the end zone. Oops, fumbled the opening kickoff on opening day.

Look I'm not a supporter and I think he should be replaced. Stuff happens, but this is clearly someone that dislikes Cassel and is trying to make him look as bad as humanly possible. Hey I over threw the ball. Let's look at that clip again, the lineman missed his assignment so Cassel couldn't follow through on the throw. What logically happens when someone can't follow through...the ball drifts. What happened, the ball drifted. OMG!! It's like...physics or something.

Here's another clip I have a problem with. Cassel missed a receiver swinging his hands that's running across the line of scrimmage. Hmm isn't that BOTH sides of the line collapsing? Oh that's right, half of the offensive line is saying hey Matt, sorry about letting the entirety of the the D line in on you.

Yet another clip Bowe being over thrown. Oh cool, why don't we throw a clip up there of Bowe running the wrong route and then shrugging. My bad, lets try that play again D-Bowe likes running routes!

Finally, Cassel dodging a guy and then running for his life and getting sacked. Hrmm, why would Cassel have to dodge two guys? Oh that's right, the O line sucked and let them come rushing in.

This article is clearly saying "I hate Matt Cassel so I'm going to try and find statistics to make him look bad and clips that I can put witty things on. lol, wtf, omg". There are three kinds of lies in the world, lies, damn lies and statistics. For every person that claims look at the facts I can find you another set of facts that contradicts them. The other thing I think almost every clip missed is that the O line sucked. We've worked this year on getting an upgraded line on both sides of the ball which is why I'm not screaming to the high heavens.

With all that said, please replace our QB as it is now our weak link in the team.

THIS
:bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046:

[brdempsey69]

Regardless of whatever happens with Cassel, the biggest hope for the Chiefs QBOTF is still Stanzi.

Stanzi is really the key guy and how fast he can develop and take over the starting QB position.

I'm sure all eyes of Chiefs fans will be on Stanzi in the upcoming preseason.

[OPLookn]

Regardless of whatever happens with Cassel, the biggest hope for the Chiefs QBOTF is still Stanzi.

Stanzi is really the key guy and how fast he can develop and take over the starting QB position.

I'm sure all eyes of Chiefs fans will be on Stanzi in the upcoming preseason.

Agreed, I'll be curious to see how Daboll is with Stanzi. Daboll and McCoy butted heads furiously according to reports. Hopefully Stanzi comes out and does well this year. Honestly I'd like to see him sit another year regardless of what happens with Cassel this year. I don't want to rush him out there just because Cassell isn't hacking it. I'd rather have Stanzi come out when he's ready instead.

[Seek]

[quote=70 chiefsfan70;261623]Good find. I've always said Cassel makes a decent OL look horrible.
quote]

Where is this decent OL that he made look bad. Our Oline has not been decent since since Will Shields and Willie Roaf retired. Charles mad them look decent, but every other RB and QB on this team made them look like what they are. Winston greatly improves this team but there is still quesitons about the middle that I am concerned about.

[Ryfo18]

Agreed, I'll be curious to see how Daboll is with Stanzi. Daboll and McCoy butted heads furiously according to reports. Hopefully Stanzi comes out and does well this year. Honestly I'd like to see him sit another year regardless of what happens with Cassel this year. I don't want to rush him out there just because Cassell isn't hacking it. I'd rather have Stanzi come out when he's ready instead.

My biggest worry is that Daboll has failed at multiple stops to develop a QB into a successful one. That list includes Sanchez, Henne, and McCoy.

[matthewschiefs]

We are judging Matt Cassel's play here, not special teams. I have just layed out the dropped passes statistic, so stop using that as an excuse. He also had the 5th best blocking line last year, yet his play was only worse. Your dropped passes and line excsues don't hold up, the facts dont show them being a problem. You are just looking for more excuses instead of saying, ok these are the facts, we have to admit he hasn't played well. You don't have to say he's not the qb of the future, but you do have to say these are terrible stats.

Judging by his stats and play it is obvious he is not the qb to get us to that next step. This will continue in 2012

No you didn't you went to a different year then what was brought up. 2011 and 2009 are not the same year.


http://ffarmory.com/main_blogs/2009-dropped-passes-stats http://bleacherreport.com/articles/313678-chiefs-dropping-passes-at-alarming-rate

4 chiefs were on the list leading the way. It's not an excuse it's a factor in why the numbers were the way they were in 2009 every team has drops not many come close to record breaking drops.

And I will say this again just to show how only looking at some of the facts and not the whole story like the article posted here does can be so far twisted

IN 2009 Matt Cassel was better then Drew Brees,Aaron Rodgers

In 20010 Matt Cassel was better then Drew Brees,Phillip Rivers,Matt Schab,Tom Brady,Peyton Manning,Jay Cuttler

How can I declare this simple we only look at the bare results we don't look into details and all the factors that go into everything that goes into a team and these guys all lost to the "cream puffs" that Cassel beat so the only thing that we can declare just looking at some bare results of things is that Cassel is better. Does that sound fair to you?????????????

[matthewschiefs]

Wait what? Matt cassel was better than Drew brees and Aaron Rodgers in 2009? Huh?

In 2010 He was better than all of those guys, how? He was 24th in YPG, had a worse rating than most of those guys. And they are the ones (with the exception of Schuab) that anchor and drive their offenses. Cassel doesn't, the best thing you can say about him is he took care of the ball inside the red zone, which would be true.

You're right that's one of the most idiotic,ridiculous,asinine things I have ever said and trust me for me that's saying something I left out a whole lot of facts in that statement.Oh you want ALL the facts now. Strange you don't think that article should include all the facts.

Based just on results Matt Cassel can be claimed better since he beat teams that those qbs lost to you no the "Cream puffs" Who cares about all the other stuff right that's just excuses right????????? Or is it only the facts that help defend Cassel that should be left out you no the

1. Near record dropped passes in 09

2. Lack of talent Cassels first Chiefs team had

3. ALL the different OCs that Cassel has played for Including 2 before he even played on snap in the regular season for the Chiefs

4. The losing key players to the offense including the teams MVP

That you would like left out. If you don't want to tell the WHOLE story why should I.

[SBV_Eagle_Bull]

I believe in Cassel. He's elite in my book. GO CHIEFS

[OPLookn]

We are judging Matt Cassel's play here, not special teams. I have just layed out the dropped passes statistic, so stop using that as an excuse. He also had the 5th best blocking line last year, yet his play was only worse. Your dropped passes and line excsues don't hold up, the facts dont show them being a problem. You are just looking for more excuses instead of saying, ok these are the facts, we have to admit he hasn't played well. You don't have to say he's not the qb of the future, but you do have to say these are terrible stats.

Judging by his stats and play it is obvious he is not the qb to get us to that next step. This will continue in 2012

When you take Cassel's stats and apply them to the rest of the team and why we're going to be 8-8 this year we're talking about the whole team.

This is a prime example of you cherry picking. You say the team isn't going to be good but then specifically narrow in on Cassel. When I point out other problems you blindly say those don't count and go back to Cassel. Prime. Example.

Important fact #1 rebuttal: Brady had been playing how long in the NFL? What year was it for Casssel? Oh yeah, Cassel's suppose to come out playing like Brady, nevermind.

Important fact #2 rebuttal: The 5th best line in 2011, cherry picking. You didn't even factor in injuries. But you shrug off his 2010 and 2009 rankings when he had the 16th ranked pass blocking line and the 30th...30th!!! ranked pass blocking line. Way to ignore FACTS.

Important fact #3 & #4 rebuttal: No real rebuttal needed. They're pointing out that when the running game works Cassel isn't getting sacked as much. Hmm that almost sounds like some kind of cause and effect thingy. Which leads to...

Important fact #5 rebuttal: The guy had the same sack rate as Cassel. That must be pretty good, oh wait he didn't have many sacks because he was busy throwing INT's and incompletions!!!

Important fact #6 rebuttal: Pioli didn't resign Orton. I'm not sure if the author of this article was eating the same cannoli he accuses Pioli of eating because the last time I checked the NFL wasn't a chain gang. Orton didn't want to be here, plain and simple. He wanted to be a back up and anyone that doesn't believe that needs to go read this article on arrowhead pride Clearing Up Misconceptions On Kyle Orton And The Chiefs - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/7/19/3169865/kyle-orton-misconceptions-kansas-city-chiefs).

Important fact #7 rebuttal: For the 5th best passing line that you so tout please tell me why not one but two defenders are chasing Cassel down in that clip? Buh, buh...

You just don't like Cassel. Just admit it, you'd rather see him and the Chiefs fail so you can point and laugh and say see guys!! I called it. Look at how brilliant I am.

I'm going to enjoy seeing you eat crow at the end of this year when we're not only division champs for the 2nd time in three years and have a strong probability of winning our playoff game.

[Seek]

[quote=Seek;261644]



During the 2008 season with New England, Cassel was sacked once every 11 pass attempts. Behind the exact same offensive line Tom Brady was sacked once every 35 pass attempts. This is a particularly harsh indictment of Cassel's ability to detect, respond and escape pressure considering Brady (who is less athletic) was operating an offense that was more wide open, featured more of an emphasis down the field and was less dependent on running.

2011 - 1 sack every 12 attempts - 5th ranked pass blocking line.
2010 - 1 sack every 17 attempts - 16th ranked pass blocking line.
2009 - 1 sack every 12 attempts - 30th ranked pass blocking line.
2008 - 1 sack every 11 attempts - 18th ranked pass blocking line.

For some weird reason it never seems to change

As an EX season ticket holder I also saw a lot of pressure on our QB's including Orton and Palko. I also saw our running game struggle in short situations but I guess that was all Thomas Jones, and Jackie Battles fault or maybe the QB handing the ball off and not the offensive line itself.

I see football as a team sport. Everyone has to be doing their part to make things work. And the one huge glaring variable that your stats do support is who was the OC these years. The best year Cassel had was when Hailey was not calling the plays. Given the clear conflicts Hailey and Cassel had, and the struggles at RT and age in the middle, the offensive line wasn't great. The receivers weren't getting huge separation for the type of plays Hailey was calling, we had no running game.

There are a lot of variables that I can complain about other than Cassel which is why I pointed out that I am an EX season ticket holder. Most of those variables have been addressed. So other than Stanzi who I really wanted to see last year. What other options do we have right now.

I don't see the point of spending the time and energy trashing Cassel at this point. What does it accomplish. Clearly he has zero excuse this year given the talent around him. What if those other variables were a reason for his performance. Why not try and to embrace that and wait until the guy at least plays a game under Romeo and then trash the guy when he has failed. Hating on him now isn't going to change that he is our starter hating on a player before the season starts only adds negativetly that will snow ball to other areas the second something goes wrong.

[brdempsey69]

I'm not going to throw Cassel under the bus as the article that Ryfo18 linked to suggests, BUT, by the same token he must step up his level of play & be more consistent.

What I mean by "stepping it up & being more consistent" is if anyone remembers the 2010 game in Seattle, it was in that game that he looked more like a real bonafide QB, than just a game manager.

That's what the Chiefs need to see more of from Cassel in the 2012 upcoming season.

[matthewschiefs]

I'm not going to throw Cassel under the bus as the article that Ryfo18 linked to suggests, BUT, by the same token he must step up his level of play & be more consistent.

What I mean by "stepping it up & being more consistent" is if anyone remembers the 2010 game in Seattle, it was in that game that he looked more like a real bonafide QB, than just a game manager.

That's what the Chiefs need to see more of from Cassel in the 2012 upcoming season.

I agree 100%

Cassel has to play better I have said that a number of times. We have seen times when Cassel has gone out and LOOKED like a qb. The Seattle game the Vikings game this past season Haley got after him he went out and you could tell the difference in him. He went out and won that game. If he can show us that Cassel then the Chiefs will be a real good football team. If not then it's time to give Stanzi a shot.

The article posted does nothing but lay out the bad while ignoring a number of factors. That's why I have been supporting him as much as I have. He's a Chiefs player and when a Chiefs player is being unfairly criticized IMO I will defend that player 100 out of 100 times.

[matthewschiefs]

I dont like cassel because he isn't good. 17-22 as a starter, 59 rating against teams that are .500 and over. 3-13 record against playoff teams, 29th, 19th and 30th the past 3 seasons in yards per attempt, that definitely won't cut it.

As a Chief, in games where Cassel's team rushes for less than 135 yards he is 5-17. In the five wins, Cassel's defense holds the opposition to an average of 15.4 points. So you better hope and pray this run game will execute well this year

So yes, I don't understand, as Ryfo said why anyone would think he can get us to that next step and be our guy.The Giants were top 5 in drops and Eli Manning had a 93 qb rating, averaged over 300 yards per game and was a major reason they won the super bowl.

You know OP, they won't win the division. I don't come here to troll or make anyone angry, and if I am right i certainly wont gloat about it, I just want our team to be better, I just dont see a future with Cassel. We really havn't seen any evidence from him that he can do it.


My man I have a challenge for you

Find me a QB that had success with nearly 50 dropped passes and a 29th ranked Defense. Find me 1 And I will agree with you 100% on Cassel.

The Chiefs have already won the division once with Cassel I know I know Cream puffs You see that's you're problem you never give Cassel credit from what he does do. Did you no that Drew Brees,Phillip Rivers,Matt Schab,Tom Brady,Peyton Manning,Jay Cuttler all lost to those creampuffs in 2010? The teams with that Horrible Matt Cassel managed to beat. Those are some pretty good QBs. Brees and Rivers lost twice to them. (if you include the playoffs with Brees) I would be much more willing to listen to you if you just give Cassel Credit where Credit is due. Cassel might have only 17 wins but that's in less then 3 full seasons of starts since he was hurt and it's more wins then the previous management that you praise over and over again for the 4 players they got that were good managed to win in 3 FULL seasons.

The truth is a lot of your criticism is very fair with Cassel. But not all of it. And you just have to learn to give him a tad bit of credit when it's earned.

[Canada]

Someone email this to pioli! Where is Connie Jo. She loves Pioli and Cassel.

Ryfo18 is my new favorite poster, if he says the qb of the future is stanzi i will agree. If he says we should bring back steve bono I agree. I nominate Ryfo as a moderator on this site. you are the lamest "fan" I have ever seen. you buy into this assinine biased one sided "article" where some moron writes hes opinion and finds a stat to back it up. Yet when its pointed out you have a hissy fit because people dont share your hatred of our QB?? Shut the fu** up, you regurgitate the same bullsh!t non stop around here...go watch your cowboys!!

Cassel does not win when we throw first...we have not been a throw first team since Dick Vermeil...we throw when we are behind and have to abandon the run game...what? your precious article doesnt mention things like that? I guess you have to leave things like that up to the thinkers. Bowe drops a lot of passes....but yeah, its Cassels fault.

No one here is saying Cassel is Brady or Manning or Brees or rogers but he is who we have and in all your ranting and crap you spew...you still have yet to name ONE guy who we should have replaced him with....the best solution you have come up with is a lateral move to Orton. You posts are old, your opinion is retarded....find some new reason to hate on the Chiefs dumbas$!!:bananen_smilies046:

[Canada]

I dont like cassel because he isn't good. 17-22 as a starter, 59 rating against teams that are .500 and over. 3-13 record against playoff teams, 29th, 19th and 30th the past 3 seasons in yards per attempt, that definitely won't cut it.

That is the whole teams record...you dont ever look at the whole picture. And the playoff team he lost to...went to the AFC Champ game and should have won that. One of the most dominanat defenses in the last decade...how many yards did Charles go for?? Oh yeah...but its all on Cassel.

So yes, I don't understand, as Ryfo said why anyone would think he can get us to that next step and be our guy.The Giants were top 5 in drops and Eli Manning had a 93 qb rating, averaged over 300 yards per game and was a major reason they won the super bowl.

You know OP, they won't win the division. I don't come here to troll or make anyone angry, and if I am right i certainly wont gloat about it, See post below...hypocriteI just want our team to be better, I just dont see a future with Cassel. We really havn't seen any evidence from him that he can do it.

Wont win the divsion? 2010

Someone email this to pioli! Where is Connie Jo. She loves Pioli and Cassel.

Ryfo18 is my new favorite poster, if he says the qb of the future is stanzi i will agree. If he says we should bring back steve bono I agree. I nominate Ryfo as a moderator on this site.:bananen_smilies046:

[TennMike]

Def not the answer, but hopefully the running game can help him out.

[Chiefster]

:troll31:

[matthewschiefs]

Most of those qb's were the reason their offense scored, we are a rushing team, not a passing ( I can give you a reason or two why we aren't a passing team ;)

Ok I will admit it as I have said before, he played well against a bad schedule. Ok? He played conservative in 2010 and took care of the football. He doesn't do that against good teams.

Since you don't like to talk about 09, The past 2 seasons he has 10 td and 14 int vs .500 teams or better. Now stick him in against the colts and you will see those numbers improve. Its just too bad we cant play bum teams like the colts in the playoffs

See right there is why you get the comments some give you. You can't just say he played well in 2010. You Have to throw in the Bad schedule line. If it was such an easy schedule then why did the QBs I listed who I think you would admit are good QBs lose to them? If they are so much better then why didn't they win against them????????? YES the running game was part of that. But so was Cassel. 27tds to 7ints was part of the reason. Every win in the NFL is earned.

The truth is and it's been said time and time again you win as a team you lose as a team. It's not Matt Cassel went 4-12 in 09 10-6 in 10 and 4-5 in 11 till he got hurt it's the Kansas City Chiefs went 4-12,10-6,4-5 Cassel is a part of the wins he's a part of the losses. There are times that Cassel has done his job led the offense to 30 plus points and they still lost. That's not on Cassel. You want to point to the record but you don't want to give any of the details on what goes into that record. I still Challange you show me a QB that had a great record and put up good numbers in the situation that Cassel walked into in 09. nearly 50 dropped passes and the 29th ranked defense. Theres more that goes into losses then just Cassel something you won't mention.

[matthewschiefs]

Because we move the ball with a rushing attack. That is usually the reason why we end up in the red zone. If the run is contained we lose, That is what I mean when I say "We don't have a capable qb to win games." Cassel can't do much when we throw more than we run. Because if the run is stopped, we are forced to throw and the end result is usually not good

What those qbs I listed don't have good offense to put up points? Yes we used our rushing attack. There are many teams over the years who have built there team on the running game. It's been what the Chiefs have been based around outside of the Vermil era. Our rushing attack doesn't explain why those other top Qbs couldn't beat those cream puffs as you label them. What Cassels 27tds in 2010 had nothing to do with our wins in 2010?

[matthewschiefs]

When has that ever happened against a solid team? WHEN?! It's never happened.

Fine forget about 09. What about 10 and 11? 2010 (67 rating) 5 TD and 6 Int against .500 or better. And that's when he had his "Great" year.

2011 4 TD 8 INT against .500 teams or better. (63 rating)

I like you MAtt, you have always treated me with respect and never cursed at me like Canada has, but don't you see why I might be skeptical about believing in this guy to take us to that next step where our franchise should be this year? With play like that? Remember we play teams like Baltimore in the playoffs not the Colts.

My issues with your outlook are as follows

1. You can't give Cassel credit when he does well. You just brush it off as oh he beat creampuffs. 09 no one was going to pile up wins with that team in 2010 they took a step forward yes they struggled against top teams they were still in the building process. Teams don't just go from as bad as the Chiefs were to beating everyone. You build your team up to where you become one of the top teams. 2010 was a step in that. 2011 was hurt before the season even started with Tony Moaki going down. You would say Tony G was a pretty good TE right. Tony M had a better rookie season then Tony G did. Theres reason to think that Tony M would have been a help to the offense. Then week 2 we lost the MVP of the offense early in the game. That also played a factor in why the offense wasn't at 100%. It wasn't just Cassel stuggling. There were a number of factors yes Cassel struggling was ONE of those but there were many many more which you don't like to mention.

2. You at times seem to have two different standards. You praise the former management of this team and mention the 4 guys that brought in that helped this team. Of all those picks you can name 4 that are of help. 3 years of drafts you can name 4 out of 21 picks well more then that since they traded away a top talent to get more in 08. You give them credit after they had time to grow into being NFL players. Yet you won't give Pioli's picks time. And when they do play well you don't give them credit outside of Berry. Mccluster was REALLY good last year. Yet you don't give him credit based on this thought of yours that he won't get the ball. Before you declare that why not wait and see how they use him before you say he won't get the ball? There just seems to be people you like then there seems to be people you don't like and are overly harsh to. Like Cassel and Pioli.

I don't mind the back and forths with you we seem to have alot. I like a good debate and as long as you are respectful I will be as well. You're not the first person I have had many debates with on here Chief31 and I have gone back and forth many times. I don't mind a different opinion you have your right to your opinion and I have my right to disagree with you. But when you IMO are being unfair to one of the Chiefs players I will defend that player every time. Right wrong of indifferent it's just how I am. :D

[70 chiefsfan70]

Well those QB's dont have the comfortable cushion that Cassel has as far as a running game, bottomline it's up to Rivers for example to make the throws and score. It's not that way with the Chiefs.

Of course the TD's had something to do with our wins, the problem is when the run is contained and we can't use it to get in the red zone, Cassel is useless just like his rating and record indicate.

Btw, who is a mod here? I'll change my name to My Man Hali but I don't know who to contact.




The mods are,

chief 31
Chiefster
tornadospotter
rbedgood



But I hear you have to go through Canada first, and the way to Canada is:

1 8 round tickets from Canada to KCI,

2 16 paid nights at a 5 star hotel,

3 season tickets,

4 personal pickup and transportation to and from the games(Canada is unable to walk after games due to too much beverage consumption,

5 open tab at the games and any bar and restaurant in KC

This sounds like a lot but truely is a very small price to pay, considering you will have a fresh start, and a new username at the best Chiefs forumn, and may I add, a friend for life in Canada.

nothing personal, mmo. I do enjoy having you as a fellow chiefs fan.

[Canada]

Im not a fu*%kin mod yet?

[Chiefster]

Im not a fu*%kin mod yet?


Don't let this guy push your buttons buddy. People with an opinion that matches their intellect get the attention they deserve. I quit paying any attention to MMO a real long time ago. The more attention he gets, the more posts his threads receive, the more people allow him/her to make them angry the more power they give him.

Now, if he is in violation of the rules and I've missed it then report it and I'll be more then happy to appropriately deal with the guy, if not then you could put the guy on ignore and not let him biol your blood pressure. :bananen_smilies046:

[OPLookn]

Most of those qb's were the reason their offense scored, we are a rushing team, not a passing ( I can give you a reason or two why we aren't a passing team ;)

Ok I will admit it as I have said before, he played well against a bad schedule. Ok? He played conservative in 2010 and took care of the football. He doesn't do that against good teams.

Since you don't like to talk about 09, The past 2 seasons he has 10 td and 14 int vs .500 teams or better. Now stick him in against the colts and you will see those numbers improve. Its just too bad we cant play bum teams like the colts in the playoffs.


When has that ever happened against a solid team? WHEN?! It's never happened.

Fine forget about 09. What about 10 and 11? 2010 (67 rating) 5 TD and 6 Int against .500 or better. And that's when he had his "Great" year.

2011 4 TD 8 INT against .500 teams or better. (63 rating)

I like you MAtt, you have always treated me with respect and never cursed at me like Canada has, but don't you see why I might be skeptical about believing in this guy to take us to that next step where our franchise should be this year? With play like that? Remember we play teams like Baltimore in the playoffs not the Colts.


I'm curious but where are you getting the statistics in RED... Because it seems to me like you have two sets of statistics and they don't match. Going to ESPN and opening two windows, one of the standings of the regular season. The other with Chiefs schedule, results and who was playing. I think it's funny that you're including the Ravens stats because it makes your stats look better but if you include Seattle who made the playoffs AND beat the Saints...aka Drew Brees according to you the stats are below.

Teams .500 or better with Cassel playing
2010 TD's INT's
Chargers(9-7) 1 0
Colts(10-6) 0 0
Jaguars(8-8) 2 0
Raiders(8-8) 2 1
Seattle(7-9) 4 0
Raiders(8-8) 0 2
Ravens(12-4) 0 3
-----------------------------
TD's INT's
9 6

2011 TD's INT's
Detroit(10-6) 0 3
Chargers(8-8) 2 1
Raiders(8-8) 0 2
Chargers(8-8) 1 2
Denver(8-8) 1 0
-----------------------------
4 8

Totals 13 14



I do buy into the 17-22 record as a starter, 3-13 record against playoff teams, 59 rating against teams .500 and over, 29th in yards per attempt in 2011.

Why can't you?

Canada when you talk about "It's a team game" I understand it. But for example, when Cassel goes 11-33 115 yards 0 td and 2 int in a loss to oakland what am I suppsoed to believe?

When he has a bad career rating and 3-13 record against winning teams what am I supposed to think? Am I supposed to think Cassel has contributed well but we came up short? No I am inclined to believe the guy sucks and will not be part of the solution

How about when we run the ball 38 times, Cassel goes 20 of 29 had 3 TD, zero interceptions for 201 yards and we still lose the game? That was the game against the Houston Texans when Flowers got called for a complete BS pass interference pentalty that all but gave the game to Houston. I suppose that doesn't count right? Because it's not a team game and Cassel lost it for us, he should have run out on the field and made the play.

[Canada]

Don't let this guy push your buttons buddy. People with an opinion that matches their intellect get the attention they deserve. I quit paying any attention to MMO a real long time ago. The more attention he gets, the more posts his threads receive, the more people allow him/her to make them angry the more power they give him.

Now, if he is in violation of the rules and I've missed it then report it and I'll be more then happy to appropriately deal with the guy, if not then you could put the guy on ignore and not let him biol your blood pressure. :bananen_smilies046:
Im not mad at all! I get a good laugh at MMO!! I was just noticing that i still have not been promoted to moderator....:D

[Canada]

I do buy into the 17-22 record as a starter, 3-13 record against playoff teams, 59 rating against teams .500 and over, 29th in yards per attempt in 2011.

Why can't you?
Because I understand that it is not all on him!!

Canada when you talk about "It's a team game" I understand it. But for example, when Cassel goes 11-33 115 yards 0 td and 2 int in a loss to oakland what am I suppsoed to believe? you could "believe" that Bowe dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands that would have allowed the Chiefs to run out the clock. Instead, Oak got the ball back and went down the field to win. What part of that is Cassels fault?
When he has a bad career rating and 3-13 record against winning teams what am I supposed to think? Am I supposed to think Cassel has contributed well but we came up short? No I am inclined to believe the guy sucks and will not be part of the solutionHow about he was playing on a 4 win team when he got here...not sh!t he lost to some good teams. Its funny though, in all the pages and posts on this thread, you still have not answered the question "Who is the upgrade we should have gotten?" See you can point at a problem and piss and moan about it all day, but you couldnt have done any better as a GM. We all know your opinion of Cassel, why keep posting when you add absolutely nothing new to the conversation?

[chief31]

Well there we have it. Pack it in for the year folks.

Cassel's record with a 2-14 team is excellent.

And his passing stats for a team that has been, for his entire tenure here, designed to be a running offense, are not bad either.

But hey. Why let two excellent seasons, and two marred by mismanagement, massive injury losses, and a brand new rebuild be factored in when you can snivel and act like the Pro Bowl QB is the end of the world?

This offense has yet to be under a single design.

He has had four seasons as a starter. Two have been very good passing years, one was a rebuilding 2-14 team, and the other was marred by severe injuries, including his own.

Our pass-blocking was poor before Cassel got here, and it has slowly gotten better. This year, they should grow into a full NFL offensive line. But they have not been that in Cassel's time as a starter.

This was a group that saw to the end of the career of "iron man" Trent Green, repeated injuries to Brodie Croyle, and Damon Huard.

They were poor then, and only since last year's draft has there even been legitimate attempts to do anything about it.

And yet Cassel managed two seasons of survival with them, prior to eventually getting tagged with an injury, even to see Kyle Orton come in and receive an injury on his first play as a Chief.
'
This O-line has been poor. Larry Johnson went from 1900 yards in just over half a season, to 2 YPC, and booted out the door. Meanwhile, nobody else had any more success running with them. Even when Charles came in and made things happen (in spite of a terrible o-line) we have still never been able to run the ball any other way than to give it to the freak. All-world RB Thomas Jones even struggled to keep an average above pathetic.

You can think whatever you want about the offense that Matt has been working with. But I am not buying any of it. I KNOW how our O-line has been. And I know how the offensive play-calling and design have been.

Everybody just wants the Cadillac stats, despite the Ford Pinto frame and AMC Pacer motor.

No matter how well you drive, you aren't going to win many races driving that jalopy.

But Matt Cassel has won more than he should have with it.

[OPLookn]

Well there we have it. Pack it in for the year folks.

Cassel's record with a 2-14 team is excellent.

And his passing stats for a team that has been, for his entire tenure here, designed to be a running offense, are not bad either.

But hey. Why let two excellent seasons, and two marred by mismanagement, massive injury losses, and a brand new rebuild be factored in when you can snivel and act like the Pro Bowl QB is the end of the world?

This offense has yet to be under a single design.

He has had four seasons as a starter. Two have been very good passing years, one was a rebuilding 2-14 team, and the other was marred by severe injuries, including his own.

Our pass-blocking was poor before Cassel got here, and it has slowly gotten better. This year, they should grow into a full NFL offensive line. But they have not been that in Cassel's time as a starter.

This was a group that saw to the end of the career of "iron man" Trent Green, repeated injuries to Brodie Croyle, and Damon Huard.

They were poor then, and only since last year's draft has there even been legitimate attempts to do anything about it.

And yet Cassel managed two seasons of survival with them, prior to eventually getting tagged with an injury, even to see Kyle Orton come in and receive an injury on his first play as a Chief.
'
This O-line has been poor. Larry Johnson went from 1900 yards in just over half a season, to 2 YPC, and booted out the door. Meanwhile, nobody else had any more success running with them. Even when Charles came in and made things happen (in spite of a terrible o-line) we have still never been able to run the ball any other way than to give it to the freak. All-world RB Thomas Jones even struggled to keep an average above pathetic.

You can think whatever you want about the offense that Matt has been working with. But I am not buying any of it. I KNOW how our O-line has been. And I know how the offensive play-calling and design have been.

Everybody just wants the Cadillac stats, despite the Ford Pinto frame and AMC Pacer motor.

No matter how well you drive, you aren't going to win many races driving that jalopy.

But Matt Cassel has won more than he should have with it.

Which makes me ask a question of you chief. You've been one that has said for years that we need to upgrade the lines. We did that with this years draft, brought in the best RT we've seen in years and have had a few years for rookies to get experience.

With all that said do you feel like we have a legitimate line now? Or do we have to grow some more still?

[chief31]

Which makes me ask a question of you chief. You've been one that has said for years that we need to upgrade the lines. We did that with this years draft, brought in the best RT we've seen in years and have had a few years for rookies to get experience.

With all that said do you feel like we have a legitimate line now? Or do we have to grow some more still?

No. I think we will have by mid-season. But you know how o-line groups are... It takes a little time to get a feel for each other and to learn to play the system together.

Personell wise, I am liking it. And I do expect to be able to run the ball on 3rd and 1 after we get used to working together.

But it almost never looks like it should right away.

When you see this team run up the gut on third and short and make it, three times in the same game... then wear starting to gel.

At that point, the pass blocking should have come around as well.

[Chiefster]

Im not mad at all! I get a good laugh at MMO!! I was just noticing that i still have not been promoted to moderator....:D

:lol: Ah, gotcha. :smile

[Seek]

I do buy into the 17-22 record as a starter, 3-13 record against playoff teams, 59 rating against teams .500 and over, 29th in yards per attempt in 2011.

Why can't you?

Canada when you talk about "It's a team game" I understand it. But for example, when Cassel goes 11-33 115 yards 0 td and 2 int in a loss to oakland what am I suppsoed to believe?

When he has a bad career rating and 3-13 record against winning teams what am I supposed to think? Am I supposed to think Cassel has contributed well but we came up short? No I am inclined to believe the guy sucks and will not be part of the solution

Oakland was crushing our offensive line. Cassel was constantly pressured that game. Go check the stats, what was our running that game becuase I noticed you left that out. Baltimores D line crushed our offensive line as well. It was two home Games I remember very clearly as what I thought was a good run for the Chiefs was only a yard or two and when I thought we had a good stop on Defense it was for 6 yards. Both lines were getting dominated those games.

[OPLookn]

Im not mad at all! I get a good laugh at MMO!! I was just noticing that i still have not been promoted to moderator....:D

Well when you convert our beer currencies it's been figured out that you haven't drank enough beer yet. That's why you haven't been promoted. I'd suggest heading home and having at least a few cold and gold's tonight.

:bananen_smilies046:

[Canada]

Well when you convert our beer currencies it's been figured out that you haven't drank enough beer yet. That's why you haven't been promoted. I'd suggest heading home and having at least a few cold and gold's tonight.

:bananen_smilies046:First...our beer is worth far more than in the US. Thats why we have to drink 400 every time we come there!!

2nd...Im off today and I have been camping for a week so Im 12 cases into it since last Wed!! 4 beers since this morning!!:bananen_smilies046:

[OPLookn]

First...our beer is worth far more than in the US. Thats why we have to drink 400 every time we come there!!

2nd...Im off today and I have been camping for a week so Im 12 cases into it since last Wed!! 4 beers since this morning!!:bananen_smilies046:

First, you clearly have been drinking cr@ppy beer when you come here. I'll introduce you to some 8% to 10% beer if we're ever tailgating together.

Second, well played sir. You are quickly rising the ranks I still think you should have a few more for us here. I'd drink more but it's 100 degrees here in KC right now and the only thing I'm concerned about right now is keeping cool.

[Canada]

First, you clearly have been drinking cr@ppy beer when you come here. I'll introduce you to some 8% to 10% beer if we're ever tailgating together.

Second, well played sir. You are quickly rising the ranks I still think you should have a few more for us here. I'd drink more but it's 100 degrees here in KC right now and the only thing I'm concerned about right now is keeping cool.Since my last post Ive had enough for six of you!! with more to follow tonight.

Theres another way besides beer to keep cool?:beer:

[matthewschiefs]

When a thread starts talking about Beer you know that Canada has been around

[Three7s]

I approve the OP.

[Lord-Chiefy]

MATT IS WHAT HE IS.. he is a system guy who needs time and a good run game....2010.. Is he the QBOTF nope. But we can easily win the division with him... but I warns SB's..

[ctchiefsfan]

Regardless of whatever happens with Cassel, the biggest hope for the Chiefs QBOTF is still Stanzi.

Stanzi is really the key guy and how fast he can develop and take over the starting QB position.

I'm sure all eyes of Chiefs fans will be on Stanzi in the upcoming preseason.

There you go! The constant bickering about Cassel accomplishes nothing. He is going to be our starting quarterback this year and that is all there is to it.

He got us to the playoffs once and has a much better team around him now. We'll know soon enough if he needs to stay or go.

[tornadospotter]

There you go! The constant bickering about Cassel accomplishes nothing. He is going to be our starting quarterback this year and that is all there is to it.

He got us to the playoffs once and has a much better team around him now. We'll know soon enough if he needs to stay or go.
Indeed, he is the starter going in to training camp. It is time for all of us Chief fans to rally around support all the Chiefs that come out of training camp making the team! Time to give your support to the New Season! :chiefs3:

[tornadospotter]

When a thread starts talking about Beer you know that Canada has been around
With out a doubt, Those Canadians can and will drink more beer than they think we can! Canada is a great friend of mine, and I will always enjoy his fandom to our great team! The Kansas City Chiefs!!!!:chiefs::chiefs::chiefs::beer:

[Seek]

I don't know when or where Stanzi became the QBOTF, because he hasn't done anything to give him that label other than he hasn't proved he is failure. I really think people need to be prepared for Stanzi to be possibly a career back up. He may not even beat our Quinn for the back up job. From what I have heard, he is not clearl obvious choice over Quinn.

[#58ChiefsFan]

I don't know when or where Stanzi became the QBOTF, because he hasn't done anything to give him that label other than he hasn't proved he is failure. I really think people need to be prepared for Stanzi to be possibly a career back up. He may not even beat our Quinn for the back up job. From what I have heard, he is not clearl obvious choice over Quinn.

You may be right, but doesn't it bode well for Stanzi if he is toe to toe with a former first round pick who has played in a version of Dabolls offense before? I'm not a big Quinn fan by any means but if the kids holding his own there may be more to come from Stanzi.

[chief31]

You know OP, they won't win the division. I don't come here to troll or make anyone angry, and if I am right i certainly wont gloat about it, I just want our team to be better, I just dont see a future with Cassel. We really havn't seen any evidence from him that he can do it.

You won't gloat!?!?!?!?

The guy who named himself "MyManOrton" wouldn't't gloat?!?!?!?!?

Who do you think you are fooling? You have never posted a single comment here that is not some form of gloating, have you?

But we have seen a lot of good from Matt Cassel. You just refuse to acknowledge it, and go cherry-picking stats you like better.... Anything unfavorable to Cassel.

[chief31]

I do buy into the 17-22 record as a starter, 3-13 record against playoff teams, 59 rating against teams .500 and over, 29th in yards per attempt in 2011.

Why can't you?

Canada when you talk about "It's a team game" I understand it. But for example, when Cassel goes 11-33 115 yards 0 td and 2 int in a loss to oakland what am I suppsoed to believe?

When he has a bad career rating and 3-13 record against winning teams what am I supposed to think? Am I supposed to think Cassel has contributed well but we came up short? No I am inclined to believe the guy sucks and will not be part of the solution

You are supposed to think that Matt Cassel is evil. But any reasonable person should be thinking.... "Why?" He did pretty good in his first season starting since high school. Why would his team's record be poor after that?

And the most glaring, so deep down your throat that it is ****.g you a hemoroid, is that he switched teams. As a rookie, he was playing for the NFC division chaps, but switched to a team that lost seven times.as.many games as they won before him.

When you consider the team, suddenly going 18-21 with that team seems pretty good...... But only to a reasonable person though.

When you are on such anarchy team, you aren't going to look so hot. And when you are that bad of a team, you are going to look worse against really good teams.

Reasoning.

Logic.

Reality.

But Matt Cassel has defied all logic and looked better than logic would dictate one player could, on such a weak team. And now, we are going to see what he can do here, when we have an offense that has talent.

I think he will.continue to meet, and exceed expectations.

[chiefnut]

check out the training camp post i just posted, nice take on the [new] cassel

[brdempsey69]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the debacle that occurred last year getting the plays sent in to Cassel while Haley was there. What a freakin' farce that was.

Any QB is going to struggle with that. Simply put, get the plays sent in to him quicker this year, so he can get the team to the LOS and have a chance to audible, if he needs to.

[chief31]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the debacle that occurred last year getting the plays sent in to Cassel while Haley was there. What a freakin' farce that was.

Any QB is going to struggle with that. Simply put, get the plays sent in to him quicker this year, so he can get the team to the LOS and have a chance to audible, if he needs to.

Agreed. He has been in a tough situation here, from day one.

I don't care who you blame for the rotating play-caller situation..... But it is just another huge obstacle that Cassel has been working around.

[Connie Jo]

Blame for the horrible play-calling is on Haleys shoulders, not Matt's. 2009 Haley fires the OC & throws out the playbook 2 wks before season...season result was horrible with Haley acting as HC & OC. 2010 we had Weis. Again Haley tried to micro manage the OC's job & playcalling, which led to Weis leaving the Chiefs pre post season playoff against the Ravens. The result of Haley acting as OC for that playoff game = another disaster. 2011 Zorn & Muir were both calling plays, and Haley again would intervene changing the play called. There were times during a game Matt would signal for someone, anyone, to make a dang call!

The few times Matt took it upon himself to make a call...Haley ripped him apart, including on camera during one game! The majority of the few plays Matt did call were successful...Haley can't make that claim!

The players at camp right now say there is so much more organization to what they're being taught offensively. They love Daboll, including Matt! They all say it's great to finally have one OC instructing them, and they can all be on the same page! Crennel is not interferring at all with Daboll, he's letting him do his thing!

[Connie Jo]

Zorn at camp recently: “He’s dramatically improved because we’ve been able to spend so much time together between all the OTAs, the minicamp and now,” Zorn said of Cassel. “I really feel that he is further along than he was last year. He’s really taking charge. He’s working on things that he wasn’t working on last year at this time. The way he attacks his line of scrimmage with his command, he’s changing things or keeping things on. Our tempo is much better. We’ve really improved a lot of things sooner than we did last year.”

[Connie Jo]

You do know that Haley was the coach and had influence on the playcalling in 2010 when Cassel had his good year just as he did in 11.

And how in God's name can you tell what plays cassel called?

No, Weis was given OC control in 2010 by those with authority over Haley...which is why from the get go Haley had hard feelings. Haley attempted to micro manage, regardless, which led to Weis wanting out. Many players wanted out of KC too as a result of Haley, including Brian Waters in 2009.

As far as how I know things...I hear things I'm not suppose to hear as a fan, and I'll leave it at that. ;)

[IslandKing77]

The best part about this entire thread is how irrelevant it is. #7 will be starting QB on day 1 and he will sink or swim on his own merit and this entire back and forth will not matter.

This season will put to end any and all speculation

[nigeriannightmare]

You do know that Haley was the coach and had influence on the playcalling in 2010 when Cassel had his good year just as he did in 11.

And how in God's name can you tell what plays cassel called?

No he didnt. He wanted more control weis didnt want to give it to haley. Hence why weiss left before the season was over and then came back to the kc area before haley was fired last season a final f u to todd.

And if you havent read many of her posts she has first hand knowledge of the chiefs organization if you listen to anyone it should ve connie jo.

[ctchiefsfan]

And if you havent read many of her posts she has first hand knowledge of the chiefs organization if you listen to anyone it should ve connie jo.

MMO does not, never has and never will listen to anybody but MMO.

[chief31]

Blame for the horrible play-calling is on Haleys shoulders, not Matt's. 2009 Haley fires the OC & throws out the playbook 2 wks before season...season result was horrible with Haley acting as HC & OC. 2010 we had Weis. Again Haley tried to micro manage the OC's job & playcalling, which led to Weis leaving the Chiefs pre post season playoff against the Ravens. The result of Haley acting as OC for that playoff game = another disaster. 2011 Zorn & Muir were both calling plays, and Haley again would intervene changing the play called. There were times during a game Matt would signal for someone, anyone, to make a dang call!

The few times Matt took it upon himself to make a call...Haley ripped him apart, including on camera during one game! The majority of the few plays Matt did call were successful...Haley can't make that claim!

The players at camp right now say there is so much more organization to what they're being taught offensively. They love Daboll, including Matt! They all say it's great to finally have one OC instructing them, and they can all be on the same page! Crennel is not interferring at all with Daboll, he's letting him do his thing!

Haley was the HC. But his superiors blocked him from doing his job, by doing it for him. 09 was a bad year because it was a whole new staff/system for a 2-12 team.

Haley never had a chance to succeed with his offense, because he had his chance revoked.

The problem at OC was that the HC was not bro.g allowed to run the offense he wanted.

How well the offense would have done with the HC being allowed to do his.job is purely speculative. But the issue with lack of communication was a direct result of the GM trying to do.the HCs job for him.

[spiman]

Man that is a tough read..Wish KC had $ New 49er stadium round tha block. Their QB zucks 2 Night crowd

[tornadospotter]

Haley was the HC. But his superiors blocked him from doing his job, by doing it for him. 09 was a bad year because it was a whole new staff/system for a 2-12 team.

Haley never had a chance to succeed with his offense, because he had his chance revoked.

The problem at OC was that the HC was not bro.g allowed to run the offense he wanted.

How well the offense would have done with the HC being allowed to do his.job is purely speculative. But the issue with lack of communication was a direct result of the GM trying to do.the HCs job for him.
:sign0153:

[ctchiefsfan]

Yeah....I didn't understand it either. Beer post maybe?

[Seek]

Local media yesterday said Stanzi is getting worse each day and looked aweful yesterday against Arizona. That being said, Cassel is so much better than anything Arizona has, and jokingly said they could get 4 first round picks from Arizona they are hurting so bad for a QB.

Even said that Quinn would be their starter as he was a whole lot better than what they had. They were not able to connect on routes run against air.

[bigwigbob]

Stanzi looked alright yesterday. It was the day before that he looked horrible. Cassel had looked great this camp so far.

[Bike]

Haley was the HC. But his superiors blocked him from doing his job, by doing it for him.
This is because Haley was an idiot.

[chief31]

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you turned around a 2-14 team into a 10-6 NFL division champion?

Or do you always fail to support your judgements?

[Ryfo18]

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you turned around a 2-14 team into a 10-6 NFL division champion?

Or do you always fail to support your judgements?

With the 11th ranked scoring defense, #1 rushing offense, and #30 passing offense, let's give credit where it's due--The O-line, JC and TJ, the defense, and the coaching staff...namely Weis (who was calling plays) and Crennel.

Cassel played well, but he was a small part. And when he was called upon to carry the team, he responded by going 9/18 for 70 yards and 3 INTs in the Wild card game.

The Chiefs need to look for a QB that can put the team on his back. I'm not blind to the fact that it's difficult, but Matt Cassel is not the guy that can do that, it's that simple.

[chief31]

With the 11th ranked scoring defense, #1 rushing offense, and #30 passing offense, let's give credit where it's due--The O-line, JC and TJ, the defense, and the coaching staff...namely Weis (who was calling plays) and Crennel.

Cassel played well, but he was a small part. And when he was called upon to carry the team, he responded by going 9/18 for 70 yards and 3 INTs in the Wild card game.

The Chiefs need to look for a QB that can put the team on his back. I'm not blind to the fact that it's difficult, but Matt Cassel is not the guy that can do that.

Pretty easy for you to assume all credit away from the HC there, isn't it?

We don't know how much of he offense was a result of who's play-calling/design.

But, for my money, I would give most of the offensive credit to the incredible individual talent of JC.

Nobody else was able to run with that blocking, and the running game was what slowed the pass-rush, in my opinion.

But, all spin and speculation aside, Todd Haley coached this team from 2-14 to 10-6 division champs.

How about if you ACTUALLY give credit where it is due, instead of spinning away from reality?

[Ryfo18]

Pretty easy for you to assume all credit away from the HC there, isn't it?

We don't know how much of he offense was a result of who's play-calling/design.

But, for my money, I would give most of the offensive credit to the incredible individual talent of JC.

Nobody else was able to run with that blocking, and the running game was what slowed the pass-rush, in my opinion.

But, all spin and speculation aside, Todd Haley coached this team from 2-14 to 10-6 division champs.

How about if you ACTUALLY give credit where it is due, instead of spinning away from reality?

So you're willing to go on the record and say that the head coach that was 4-12 calling plays deserves the credit after a brilliant playcaller in Charlie Weis comes in and the team all the sudden jumps to 10-6?

Weis then leaves and the team starts 0-3 in 2011. Matt Cassel is 54-82 for 428 yards and a 3/5 TD/INT ratio through those first 3 games, after throwing 7 total INTs through 16 games in 2010.

What exactly did Todd Haley do that had a bigger impact than Weis or Crennel in 2010? Seriously? The biggest impact he had was running Charlie Weis out of town.

[ctchiefsfan]

:beat_DeadHorse:Why are we doing this again?

Cassel is the QB right now and we will have all season to decide if he is worth a ship or not. Cassel is the QB and the only thing that might change that is poor performance. It is all wait and see now.

[Ryfo18]

:beat_DeadHorse:Why are we doing this again?

Because there's really nothing else to argue about...

[ctchiefsfan]

Fair enough. I'm just not big on arguing with fellow Chiefs fans. Last I checked we were all supposed to be on the same side.

[Ryfo18]

Fair enough. I'm just not big on arguing with fellow Chiefs fans. Last I checked we were all supposed to be on the same side.

Sure, we all root for the same team. That definitely doesn't mean we have to all agree on which direction the team should head in terms of personnel.

[ctchiefsfan]

Sure, we all root for the same team. That definitely doesn't mean we have to all agree on which direction the team should head in terms of personnel.

But aren't the personnel discussions pretty much over for now? At least at the "high profile" positions. Seems like time to get behind the team to me.

[doobs_05]

I say just keep "discussing" it until the season starts and we see how cassel plays.

[chief31]

So you're willing to go on the record and say that the head coach that was 4-12 calling plays deserves the credit after a brilliant playcaller in Charlie Weis comes in and the team all the sudden jumps to 10-6?

Weis then leaves and the team starts 0-3 in 2011. Matt Cassel is 54-82 for 428 yards and a 3/5 TD/INT ratio through those first 3 games, after throwing 7 total INTs through 16 games in 2010.

What exactly did Todd Haley do that had a bigger impact than Weis or Crennel in 2010? Seriously? The biggest impact he had was running Charlie Weis out of town.

I am willing to deal in reality, as opposed to making excuses for success.

He was the HC, while Crennel and Weiss were merely coordinators.

What exactly did he do? No need for BS speculation here. He coached the team. Any guess as to how much involvement he had with play-calling is just one's own imagination.

But, to share a bit of imagination..... Weiss left after that one season, suggesting that he was not thrilled with some interference in running the offense. Pretty easy to make a BS statement that Haley was far more involved with the offense than what you want to give the guy credit for.

And the following season started out at 0-3.... With a shortened off-season, ridiculous injuries, and they followed that up with four straight wins, even without the central cog of the offense (JC).

But the dream world you are presenting is still just a total failure in the face of the written-in-stone fact that Todd Haley led this team from 2-12 to 10-6 division chaps in two years.

You can spin away from it all you want. But that stone cold fact will be right here waiting for when you are done denying reality.

[chiefnut]

haley already is in conflict w/big ben......what a shock!!!

[Ryfo18]

I am willing to deal in reality, as opposed to making excuses for success.

He was the HC, while Crennel and Weiss were merely coordinators.

What exactly did he do? No need for BS speculation here. He coached the team. Any guess as to how much involvement he had with play-calling is just one's own imagination.

But, to share a bit of imagination..... Weiss left after that one season, suggesting that he was not thrilled with some interference in running the offense. Pretty easy to make a BS statement that Haley was far more involved with the offense than what you want to give the guy credit for.

And the following season started out at 0-3.... With a shortened off-season, ridiculous injuries, and they followed that up with four straight wins, even without the central cog of the offense (JC).

But the dream world you are presenting is still just a total failure in the face of the written-in-stone fact that Todd Haley led this team from 2-12 to 10-6 division chaps in two years.

You can spin away from it all you want. But that stone cold fact will be right here waiting for when you are done denying reality.

I'm the one denying reality? You make it sound like it wasn't 100% obvious that Charlie Weis called the plays all year. Let me spell it out for you again:

1.) Todd Haley comes to coach the team in 2009. He calls the plays and the team goes 4-12.
2.) Charlie Weis is named as the offensive coordinator in 2010, the team goes 10-6 and gets a wild card berth. There was no secret who was calling the plays, as you make it out to seem like.

ESPN's AFC West Insider Bill Williamson seems to agree here by stating:

"How much Weis had to do with the Chiefs' success is open to conjecture, but players said he contributed greatly to the improvement that took Kansas City to a 10-6 record. Running back Jamaal Charles, wide receiver Dwayne Bowe and Cassel made the Pro Bowl after the Chiefs won their first AFC West title since 2003.

Cassel's improvement was dramatic; he had 16 TD passes and 16 interceptions when Haley was calling plays, but under Weis -- until the last two games -- he played nearly mistake-free." (Source: Bill Muir to be Kansas City Chiefs' new O-coordinator - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6086565))

3.) We can again look to Haley's playcalling record when he stripped Weis of playcalling duties in the wildcard game against the Ravens (source: Report: Haley stripped play-calling duties from Weis | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/report-haley-stripped-play-calling-duties-from-weis/)). The Chiefs went into halftime down 10-7. They failed to score a point in the second half.

4.) Todd Haley gets fired midway before the 2011 season even finishes.



You continue to speak that I'm not "dealing in reality" and living in a "dream world", when it's 100% obvious that the critical link between the Chiefs offense and success has been Charlie Weis in the the last 3 years. That is the only constant when you look back at when this offense had success. And to say it's not dealing in reality is ridiculous, it was also a "stone cold fact" that Charlie Weis called the plays for the Chiefs in 2010 (except for the 2nd half of an important wildcard game that the Chiefs then got shutout for).


But, to share a bit of imagination..... Weiss left after that one season, suggesting that he was not thrilled with some interference in running the offense. Pretty easy to make a BS statement that Haley was far more involved with the offense than what you want to give the guy credit for.

You're telling me that Todd Haley didn't get along with someone...I'm shocked.

[ctchiefsfan]

in 2010, the team goes 10-6 and gets a wild card berth.

Ummmm....just plain wrong. We won the AFC West in 2010. You wreck the credibility of your argument when you make mistakes this glaring.

[Ryfo18]

Ummmm....just plain wrong. We won the AFC West in 2010. You wreck the credibility of your argument when you make mistakes this glaring.

Thank you for your argumentum ad logicam...undermine me rather than address the arguments themselves.

We won the AFC West and played in the Wild Card game. What a terrible mistake on my part.

[Ryfo18]

But aren't the personnel discussions pretty much over for now? At least at the "high profile" positions. Seems like time to get behind the team to me.

I'm behind the team 100%...Just stating my opinion that I think Cassel is the weakest link.

[chief31]

I'm the one denying reality? You make it sound like it wasn't 100% obvious that Charlie Weis called the plays all year. Let me spell it out for you again:

1.) Todd Haley comes to coach the team in 2009. He calls the plays and the team goes 4-12.
2.) Charlie Weis is named as the offensive coordinator in 2010, the team goes 10-6 and gets a wild card berth. There was no secret who was calling the plays, as you make it out to seem like.

ESPN's AFC West Insider Bill Williamson seems to agree here by stating:

"How much Weis had to do with the Chiefs' success is open to conjecture, but players said he contributed greatly to the improvement that took Kansas City to a 10-6 record. Running back Jamaal Charles, wide receiver Dwayne Bowe and Cassel made the Pro Bowl after the Chiefs won their first AFC West title since 2003.

Cassel's improvement was dramatic; he had 16 TD passes and 16 interceptions when Haley was calling plays, but under Weis -- until the last two games -- he played nearly mistake-free." (Source: Bill Muir to be Kansas City Chiefs' new O-coordinator - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6086565))

3.) We can again look to Haley's playcalling record when he stripped Weis of playcalling duties in the wildcard game against the Ravens (source: Report: Haley stripped play-calling duties from Weis | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/report-haley-stripped-play-calling-duties-from-weis/)). The Chiefs went into halftime down 10-7. They failed to score a point in the second half.

4.) Todd Haley gets fired midway before the 2011 season even finishes.



You continue to speak that I'm not "dealing in reality" and living in a "dream world", when it's 100% obvious that the critical link between the Chiefs offense and success has been Charlie Weis in the the last 3 years. That is the only constant when you look back at when this offense had success. And to say it's not dealing in reality is ridiculous, it was also a "stone cold fact" that Charlie Weis called the plays for the Chiefs in 2010 (except for the 2nd half of an important wildcard game that the Chiefs then got shutout for).



You're telling me that Todd Haley didn't get along with someone...I'm shocked.

There is no argument here. You are just continuing to spin, and here you are right back at the plain fact that Todd Haley coached this team from 2-14 to 10-6 division champs in two years.

Why would anybody ever try so hard to argue against reality so fervently?

Oh..... The 2-14 team Haley inherited wasn't awesome the first year he was there, but got good in the second year?:efpge:

And you are presenting the obvious as some kind of evidence of..... Anything at all?

Why? Would you expect immediate success the first season, and then no improvement the second year?

Sure Todd Haley sucks at getting along with the people he works with. But....... He STILL coached this team from 2-14 to 10-6 division champs in two years.

Deny reality all you like, but it just does not go away.

"You made it sound like....." Ummm.... Like reality? Sorry if you don't like that. But there were definitely two hands in the offense, although that, as well as your ridiculous "100%" claim.are speculation. As is your desperate act of finding someone who agrees with you.

Weiss did a good job. Todd Haley, being the HC, did a good job. But, in my opinion, both are fired if JC had gone out with injury to start THAT season.

I get that Haley is gone, and, as such, does not get the "loyalty" of the teams fans.

But denying him the credit he EARNED is just sad.

[ctchiefsfan]

Thank you for your argumentum ad logicam...undermine me rather than address the arguments themselves.

We won the AFC West and played in the Wild Card game. What a terrible mistake on my part.

It wasn't a criminal mistake, but pretty glaring......which takes away from the credibility of the rest of your argument.

[chief31]

By the way Ryfo... Sorry if the tone seems disrespectful. It is not meant for that purpose. It is just tha
t I am shocked by this refusal to credit Haley for his successes with this team.

You are quite clearly a smart person, and a dedicated Chiefs fan. I respect you very much.

(Just hoping to clear up my "tone" here.)

[ctchiefsfan]

I'm behind the team 100%...

GOOD!!!!!


Just stating my opinion that I think Cassel is the weakest link.

And I am not at all sure I disagree with you. But for now he is our QB. If this year he looks like he did in 2010 then maybe he should stick around. If this year he looks more like last year than he did in 2010 then he needs to go down the road and we have a REAL problem. A GREAT team with no QB worth mentioning.....which is why I have said repeatedly we should consider shopping Bowe. If we could get a 1st round pick for him then I suspect we could trade picks in such a way as to have our choice of QBs in next year's draft. Cassel....with the right coaching And a GREAT running game AND a stout offensive line might well be able to win us a few playoff games....maybe even a Superbowl but he surely isn't going to do it without an overachieving team around him. But right now, he is what we have.



I WANT us to win this year, but I would HAPPILY trade Bowe now for a shot at a serious QOTF.

[Ryfo18]

By the way Ryfo... Sorry if the tone seems disrespectful. It is not meant for that purpose. It is just tha
t I am shocked by this refusal to credit Haley for his successes with this team.

You are quite clearly a smart person, and a dedicated Chiefs fan. I respect you very much.

(Just hoping to clear up my "tone" here.)

I don't take it as disrespectful at all, it's a simple disagreement as to who deserves the credit. Sure, Haley was the head coach. And yes, he does deserve some credit. But I feel that the addition of Weis was the primary reason for the offense being successful.

I'm trying to think of an example to highlight how I'm looking at this. Let's say an employee at a company develops some new ground-breaking technology that in turn causes his company to earn a lot of money. Who deserves more credit? The employee or his manager?

And yes, Weis was calling "most plays." Thus my reasoning why he deserves the credit for the offensive turnaround.

Charlie Weis will call most plays in Kansas City | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/28/charlie-weis-will-call-most-plays-in-kansas-city/)

That's all I'll say, good chat chief31, as always.

[chief31]

I don't take it as disrespectful at all, it's a simple disagreement as to who deserves the credit. Sure, Haley was the head coach. And yes, he does deserve some credit. But I feel that the addition of Weis was the primary reason for the offense being successful.

I'm trying to think of an example to highlight how I'm looking at this. Let's say an employee at a company develops some new ground-breaking technology that in turn causes his company to earn a lot of money. Who deserves more credit? The employee or his manager?

And yes, Weis was calling "most plays." Thus my reasoning why he deserves the credit for the offensive turnaround.

Charlie Weis will call most plays in Kansas City | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/28/charlie-weis-will-call-most-plays-in-kansas-city/)

That's all I'll say, good chat chief31, as always.

Fair enough. Although, I thought the play-calling was still pretty sad in 2010, only to be saved by the amazing skills of JC and some good, conservative QBing.

I think Cassel, Weiss and Haley (the whole team, for that matter) all owe a great deal of their 2010 success to JCs unique ability.

[ctchiefsfan]

I think Cassel, Weiss and Haley (the whole team, for that matter) all owe a great deal of their 2010 success to JCs unique ability.

And I don't think anybody will argue with you on that! I just hope to he ll that he comes back 100% from his injury and that we can get him the Superbowl ring he deserves.

[chief31]

And I don't think anybody will argue with you on that! I just hope to he ll that he comes back 100% from his injury and that we can get him the Superbowl ring he deserves.

I started to see flashes of what JC does in McCluster last year.

Not that I have any interest in losing JC, for anything, but I think McCluster has some of the same skills.

[ctchiefsfan]

I started to see flashes of what JC does in McCluster last year.

Not that I have any interest in losing JC, for anything, but I think McCluster has some of the same skills.

MY GOD!!!! If McCluster could become half the back that JC is we would dominate the NFL for the better part of a decade! I remember the years when the Scumskins dominated the NFL with just John Riggins and Joe Theisman.

[chief31]

It took him a while to get comfortable, but later in the season, he started hitting the "gap" so quick that defenses were not able to get into the positions that were designed for defending those gaps.

I hope he continues to get opportunities at HB. I'd like to see more.

[chiefnut]

i think the charles/hillis combo will be quite formidable. maybe the best in the nfl

[Seek]

It took him a while to get comfortable, but later in the season, he started hitting the "gap" so quick that defenses were not able to get into the positions that were designed for defending those gaps.

I hope he continues to get opportunities at HB. I'd like to see more.

I really hope the project of Making fall down against the wind McCluster a HB is over. Seriously, my three year old would make a tackle on McCluster look like he is getting blown up. As you said he was hitting those gaps last year but at the slightest bit of contact was tackled sometimes as mucgh as an arm tripping him up. He is better suited to be used on a reverse, or as a slot back where he has room to run. His talents were wasted last year as a HB. The Chiefs went to him way to much and was becoming very predictable when he would get the ball because he can't pass block and won't get the ball much on short yardage situations.

[chief31]

I really hope the project of Making fall down against the wind McCluster a HB is over. Seriously, my three year old would make a tackle on McCluster look like he is getting blown up. As you said he was hitting those gaps last year but at the slightest bit of contact was tackled sometimes as mucgh as an arm tripping him up. He is better suited to be used on a reverse, or as a slot back where he has room to run. His talents were wasted last year as a HB. The Chiefs went to him way to much and was becoming very predictable when he would get the ball because he can't pass block and won't get the ball much on short yardage situations.

He had as higher Yards Per Carry average than anybody else on the team in 2011, at 4.5.

Given more experience, I am sure he would improve on some things. It is difficult to get real comfortable with everything that is going on when you are getting less than 8 carries per game. It takes a little longer to get comfortable with it all.

Or you could just rush to the judgement that leading the team in YPC is horrible, and you should never do that job again.

That just isn't for me though.

[azchiefsfan]

McCluster showed some serious acceleration at times last year. I think our seriously bad OL made the RB's and Cassel look especially bad about 9 games last year. I still am amazed how the OL could look like monsters one game, then like wet toilet paper the next. We won 7 games last year with a horrible OL. Just getting them to average will see us winning 10 games, easily, this year.

[Seek]

He had as higher Yards Per Carry average than anybody else on the team in 2011, at 4.5.

Given more experience, I am sure he would improve on some things. It is difficult to get real comfortable with everything that is going on when you are getting less than 8 carries per game. It takes a little longer to get comfortable with it all.

Or you could just rush to the judgement that leading the team in YPC is horrible, and you should never do that job again.

That just isn't for me though.

He was a situation runner and the team did the best they could to utilize him as a RB but his stats would have been so much better if he could break the slightest bit of a tackle.

I tend to think the Chiefs saw the same things I did instead of looking at his stats YPC, otherwise he would actually be listed as a HB on the team instead of the 2 string LWR. I mean he is not even listed as 4th string HB.

He is a great open field runner, and is better suited to catch a ball in open space and then allowed to use his speed to beat people instead of racing as fast as he can around a corner to get hit hard for a 4 yard gain on the sideline.

I mean you could try to force a very small running back who gets knocked over very easy to be a HB, or actually use his talents and move him to a position to be better utilized, instead of trotting him out there in special situations and hope someone does not touch him.

[chief31]

He was a situation runner and the team did the best they could to utilize him as a RB but his stats would have been so much better if he could break the slightest bit of a tackle.

I tend to think the Chiefs saw the same things I did instead of looking at his stats YPC, otherwise he would actually be listed as a HB on the team instead of the 2 string LWR. I mean he is not even listed as 4th string HB.

He is a great open field runner, and is better suited to catch a ball in open space and then allowed to use his speed to beat people instead of racing as fast as he can around a corner to get hit hard for a 4 yard gain on the sideline.

I mean you could try to force a very small running back who gets knocked over very easy to be a HB, or actually use his talents and move him to a position to be better utilized, instead of trotting him out there in special situations and hope someone does not touch him.

While I too saw him as easy to tackle, I think that that is something that he can improve on with.experience. Not that he is ever going to be a powerback, but gaining confidence through experience can allow him to work on that aspect.of his game.

He may well be an excellent slot WR too. But I think your judgement of his ability to be a HB is hastily made.

[Seek]

While I too saw him as easy to tackle, I think that that is something that he can improve on with.experience. Not that he is ever going to be a powerback, but gaining confidence through experience can allow him to work on that aspect.of his game.

He may well be an excellent slot WR too. But I think your judgement of his ability to be a HB is hastily made.

He can't block in passing situations and is nit ideal for short yardage. He is a third down back at best but looking his role as a wr tonight

[hardcorechiefsfan]

Didn't we get a QB in the dreft?

[TopekaRoy]

Didn't we get a QB in the dreft?

I think technically, no. Wasn't Tanney an undrafted FA?

[#58ChiefsFan]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9pdYHbYxI2t73gq6atmL8Ys2GyPNNd 11cVuhKP7D2zE52qwNLSQ

[Yoda]

Dear Kansas City,

Please don't get rid of Matt Cassel.

Thank you,
The AFC West

[TopekaRoy]

Dear Kansas City,

Please don't get rid of Matt Cassel.
Thank you,
The AFC West

This is SO beneath you, Yoda!

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4083/5055032357_69d1d1be72.jpg

[Yoda]

This is SO beneath you, Yoda!

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4083/5055032357_69d1d1be72.jpg

Your right, but after reading Chiefs Planet thread....I could not help myself.

[#58ChiefsFan]

Dear Yoda,

Please don't lump us in with that group of mouth breathers

Thanks,
ChiefsCrowd

[Chiefster]

Your right, but after reading Chiefs Planet thread....I could not help myself.


Dear Yoda,

Please don't lump us in with that group of mouth breathers

Thanks,
ChiefsCrowd

...This! Please remember that this is the Chiefs Crowd! Accept no substitutes! :bananen_smilies046:

[Yoda]

Lol....ok 58

[Sick Dog]

Dear Kansas City,

Please don't get rid of Matt Cassel.

Thank you,
The AFC West

As long as you keep Palmer...

[Yoda]

As long as you keep Palmer...

After this season, you won't want that.

[Sick Dog]

After this season, you won't want that.

He will end up where he was last year...no one wanting him until the Raiders were desperate his best days are behind him...

[Yoda]

He will end up where he was last year...no one wanting him until the Raiders were desperate his best days are behind him...

SMH...Just take into account that CP literally came off the couch in mid season(without all the offseason camps) and help bring the Raiders within one game from winning the division and going to the playoffs. That was no small feat. This was without DMC.If you're basing your opinion on the debacle at Oak vs KC....SMH.....then your mind is not open.

[Sick Dog]

It's open so I will save my comments until later on...what you say about CP can also apply to Cassel...no Charles, no Moeki suspect o-line, no off season and injury...it has been said before this year is the year no more excuses he has all the tools...:beat_DeadHorse:

[Yoda]

Well you just made a case for CP being the better QB. With both QB's having to deal with injuries to key offensive players....but let's add that MC had a whole offseason to study the O but CP came off the bench mid season, yet was one game away from wining the division. Hmmm....

[Sick Dog]

This is a Chiefs forum so ya made no case for CP...there is a reason even the Bungholes never bothered to re-sign this guy...but hey if he does what he you think he is going to do I have no problem admitting you were right let's just see how it plays out....good luck:chiefs:

[slc chief]

SMH...Just take into account that CP literally came off the couch in mid season(without all the offseason camps) and help bring the Raiders within one game from winning the division and going to the playoffs. That was no small feat. This was without DMC.If you're basing your opinion on the debacle at Oak vs KC....SMH.....then your mind is not open.

i actually think palmer will be on his game this year. a full year of pre season under his belt and training camp. he will be better. i am telling ya the donkeys have alot more road blocks in front of them than there fans think. going to be a tough division this year.

[Yoda]

i actually think palmer will be on his game this year. a full year of pre season under his belt and training camp. he will be better. i am telling ya the donkeys have alot more road blocks in front of them than there fans think. going to be a tough division this year.

This what I am trying to convey about CP. The best thing to happen to JC is the acquisition of Hillis. This will open things up for JC and place him in space where there is less stress on his reconstructed knee. JC vs a LB in space....JC wins that battle 99% of the time.