The elephant in the,room

[nigeriannightmare]

Coaches arent saying much about it nor are players because the league has instructed them to do so. Sports illustrated has an article,this past week about the officials lockout. Its not looking promising. In 2001 officials from ncaa power conferences were used. Officials used to large crowds. This lockout out they are using officials from high school, fcs officials-small college football schools, there are even officials from the lingerie league.

Poor officiating may have more of an influence than we want to,admit:ninerssuck:

[#58ChiefsFan]

Case in point the gift wrapped drive of the Seahawks where they mugged Tamba and then called him on two highly questionable penalties. In a close game that kind of BS can determine the outcome of the game.

I dislike the most the "refs" inability to decide when to blow a play dead, you have half the guys motoring and the other half stopping. That crap is going to get someone hurt.

[Chiefs fanatic]

In the preseason games I've watched the quality of the officiating has been quite poor with obvious calls continually being missed. We are going to have a tremendous amount of controversial plays if we begin the season with the replacement officials.

[ctchiefsfan]

Lets not forget that the very first blown replay call went against the Chiefs....in a Raiders game IIRC. Does everybody remember the Zebras turning "Pass incomplete" into "pass is complete"? Should have hung the deaf and blind Zebra from the goalposts.

[AussieChiefsFan]

I know its horrible. Many bad calls and they even seem nervous when they're calling the penalties.

[nigeriannightmare]

Amani toomer said that players are figuring out what they are gonna be able to get away with. He said to expect more injuries.

[doobs_05]

Case in point the gift wrapped drive of the Seahawks where they mugged Tamba and then called him on two highly questionable penalties. In a close game that kind of BS can determine the outcome of the game.

I dislike the most the "refs" inability to decide when to blow a play dead, you have half the guys motoring and the other half stopping. That crap is going to get someone hurt.

The real refs never called holding in the past lol

[Chiefster]

First the players and now the refs, what's next: the hotdog venders? How about the parking attendants or the cheer leaders...sheesh.

[jap1]

I don't see an easy resolution to this unless the refs give in and take what they are getting offered. The bottomline is, as it always is, about money. The refs want more (along with more benefits) and the NFL doesn't want to give it.

Why should they? The NFL has already shown that games will still be played and people will still buy tickets for games with sub Refs. While people will complain, they aren't going to stop watching the games. Until it affects the NFL's ability to make money, there is no reason for them to cave.

The only way this could affect their bottom line is if the players threatened to strike in solidarity with the refs, or if they claimed that the new refs are risking their safety, and I don't see that happening during the season.

[bricooper78]

^ Which is too bad, the lowest guys out there on the field, dollars wise, deserve a little better package for pay and insurance, they have nearly as much chance as being ran over as any given player.

NFL is a bunch of money hungry buggers, just like any company, which is why they're blind to do what is probably right, and only see the bottom line. Stupid thing to have to fight over IMO. Hate to see stupid calls, and blown calls, and that's all we're going to see this whole year, if we get the original ("the real") refs back, they'll be rusty, and calling the game differently.

This stands to be a very strange year

[nigeriannightmare]

I don't see an easy resolution to this unless the refs give in and take what they are getting offered. The bottomline is, as it always is, about money. The refs want more (along with more benefits) and the NFL doesn't want to give it.

Why should they? The NFL has already shown that games will still be played and people will still buy tickets for games with sub Refs. While people will complain, they aren't going to stop watching the games. Until it affects the NFL's ability to make money, there is no reason for them to cave.

The only way this could affect their bottom line is if the players threatened to strike in solidarity with the refs, or if they claimed that the new refs are risking their safety, and I don't see that happening during the season.


I just don't understand why they arent using officials from the big 12, big 10, sec, pac 10, acc....those officials at least have large crowds and the enthusiasm is similar. I mean an official from the lingerie league. He'll piss his pants in arrowhead.

And the article did state that it could go well into the season with the official strike they aren't even in the same zip code.

[jap1]

I just don't understand why they arent using officials from the big 12, big 10, sec, pac 10, acc....those officials at least have large crowds and the enthusiasm is similar. I mean an official from the lingerie league. He'll piss his pants in arrowhead.

And the article did state that it could go well into the season with the official strike they aren't even in the same zip code.

The college refs are probably under contract and wouldn't be allowed to work for the NFL without losing their NCAA jobs. Then, if the lockout ends, they would be SOL because they couldn't go back to the NCAA.

However, I read that the difference is something like 6k/ref/game, which comes out to something like 7 mil/yr. And supposedly they went back into negotiations today.

[doobs_05]

Part of me says the NFL should just fork it over. It's a Billion dollar business and you can't give those refs what they are asking for or meet in the middle, but at the same time.....it's a part time job, you work one day out of the week for about 3 to 4 hours about 16-21 times a year, just be glad you get something out of it.

[TopekaRoy]

The college refs are probably under contract and wouldn't be allowed to work for the NFL without losing their NCAA jobs. Then, if the lockout ends, they would be SOL because they couldn't go back to the NCAA.

It's not just that. I heard that the BCS conference refs are represented by the same union as the NFL refs, so there is no way they would cross the "picket line."

NFL refs are part time, but they want to be paid as much as baseball and basketball refs (who work 10 or 5 times as many games per year). The NFL has talked about making some of them full time, but they would want even more money for that, and most of them have full time jobs that they aren't willing to give up. Ed Hoculi, for example, is a successful trial lawyer. The starting salary for NFL refs is $78,000 per year. That's almost $5,000 per game! (I'd do it for half that.)

Here is a good article that breaks down the deails of the disbute: http://www.thebestsportsblog.com/breaking-down-the-nfl-referee-lockout.html

[nigeriannightmare]

The college refs are probably under contract and wouldn't be allowed to work for the NFL without losing their NCAA jobs. Then, if the lockout ends, they would be SOL because they couldn't go back to the NCAA.

However, I read that the difference is something like 6k/ref/game, which comes out to something like 7 mil/yr. And supposedly they went back into negotiations today.


Was the BCS around in 2001? The article said that those were the officials they used for 3 weeks when the last strike occurred.

[nigeriannightmare]

I wonder if something will get done now that poor officiating has ruined a game. That was not pass interference not even close and that was an int with blatant offensive pass interference.

[nigeriannightmare]

if you havent' find a way to watch the last drive of the seahawks packers game. Un freaking believable. Im pissed and I don't even like the packers.

[chief31]

if you havent' find a way to watch the last drive of the seahawks packers game. Un freaking believable. Im pissed and I don't even like the packers.

Agreed. I think this was the nail in the coffin for the replacement refs.

[Chiefster]

Yup, First there should have been an offensive pass interference call and second it should have been ruled an interception. IMO.

[Lord-Chiefy]

The PI talks have been a joke. The Dec "fumble" was a joke and the packers "non int" was a joke. Enough already.

[rbedgood]

I watched that entire game and will claim a state of unbiased opinion as I hate the two teams equally. Their were at least 5-6 completely screwed up PI calls in the game. The most glaring was the Off PI that should've ended the game and made the decision on who "caught" the ball irrelevant. Tate pushed off, and therefore the decision between TD & Interception really shouldn't have mattered. But earlier in the 4th quarter Shields got called for DEF PI when Sidney Rice was all but assaulting him. There were a number of other occasions where phantom holding was called, and within 2-3 plays as if to 'make up' for the bad call a blatant hold or PI was allowed to slide.

I feel bad for these refs, as they are simply out-classed and don't belong on this level. Them trying to handle NFL games is tantamount to Chiefster and I trying to run the 100M dash with Usain Bolt.

Sadly someone mentioned it earlier, and I heard both John Clayton and Chris Mortensen make similar statements this evening. The fact is, the NFL owners made a business decision to lock out the refs to get the terms they wanted. They want to get rid of the pension system (as most employers have in this economy) and don't want to compensate for doing so with an equitable salary adjustment. They also want to have the ability to 'bench' refs who have severely bad games (like most of the ones so far this year) and have 21 additional refs (what about 3 crews) that are available to stand in for these benched refs. This concept would also allow for some younger refs to be introduced to the NFL level and start training replacements for the guys like, Walt Coleman (who has been an NFL official since 1989).

Frankly they need to meet in the middle. The NFL should work to preserve the quality of the game and insist in the higher training and quality standards, demanding the benching system and back-up referees, while giving some on the finances either through keeping the pension or giving a significant 'matching' amount on another retirement package.

[Yoda]

Last night's game is a PR nightmare come true for Rodger Goodell.

The ref situation had reached a boiling point. Millions were lost last night, I don't gamble but I would not place a bet on any NFL game until the regular refs come back.

Are these refs getting paid off by the mob? Are they just that incompetent? Or both?

[nigeriannightmare]

Last night's game is a PR nightmare come true for Rodger Goodell.

The ref situation had reached a boiling point. Millions were lost last night, I don't gamble but I would not place a bet on any NFL game until the regular refs come back.

Are these refs getting paid off by the mob? Are they just that incompetent? Or both?

I read that its in the neighborhood of $200 million of gambling revenues were lost because of last night. Id imagine that the state of nevada is really pissed.

I would imagine that someone has a stern talk with Goodell soon.

[Seek]

To me, the only difference from these refs and the normal refs is their professionalism.

These replacement refs are watched very closely and openly scrutinized becasue of the hold out. I can't tell you how many normal games with the same normal refs that I could have said the same things everyone is comlplaining about now. Those refs Refs screw over those games just he same. Even after the review a play and say it is confirmed when everyone sitting behind the TV clearly see somehting different. I can't tell you how many holds I have seen the refs miss watching the games live.

We had super bowl refs blow a Coin toss. We had Play off refs making up the tuck rule. Numerous of Instant replays were refused because a whistle was blown premature just like the Chiefs game. Numerous of Holds missed and phantom holds called.

The only difference, they were not under the spot light as much as these guys are now.

Yes, they had a rough week, more noteably last night but for a majority of the plays they are getting it right. It just takes them to long to look up the rules or show the replay.

They definately need to work on their public speaking and need to script how the call penaties and control the game more by taking the power the NFL gave them and use it instead of being manipulated.

I tend to side with the owners. Wait out a year, then hire the best College Refs next year as they become free agents. Then you will most likely be able to hire the top NFL refs also as they will cross.

[Chiefster]

I watched that entire game and will claim a state of unbiased opinion as I hate the two teams equally. Their were at least 5-6 completely screwed up PI calls in the game. The most glaring was the Off PI that should've ended the game and made the decision on who "caught" the ball irrelevant. Tate pushed off, and therefore the decision between TD & Interception really shouldn't have mattered. But earlier in the 4th quarter Shields got called for DEF PI when Sidney Rice was all but assaulting him. There were a number of other occasions where phantom holding was called, and within 2-3 plays as if to 'make up' for the bad call a blatant hold or PI was allowed to slide.

I feel bad for these refs, as they are simply out-classed and don't belong on this level. Them trying to handle NFL games is tantamount to Chiefster and I trying to run the 100M dash with Usain Bolt.

Sadly someone mentioned it earlier, and I heard both John Clayton and Chris Mortensen make similar statements this evening. The fact is, the NFL owners made a business decision to lock out the refs to get the terms they wanted. They want to get rid of the pension system (as most employers have in this economy) and don't want to compensate for doing so with an equitable salary adjustment. They also want to have the ability to 'bench' refs who have severely bad games (like most of the ones so far this year) and have 21 additional refs (what about 3 crews) that are available to stand in for these benched refs. This concept would also allow for some younger refs to be introduced to the NFL level and start training replacements for the guys like, Walt Coleman (who has been an NFL official since 1989).

Frankly they need to meet in the middle. The NFL should work to preserve the quality of the game and insist in the higher training and quality standards, demanding the benching system and back-up referees, while giving some on the finances either through keeping the pension or giving a significant 'matching' amount on another retirement package.


:lol: Could not have said it better! Very well put.

[chief31]

It isn't Goodell. it is the owners.

And I think they are just trying to bully the refs because they didn't like how the lockout of the players went a year ago.

Myself, I tend to lean toward the working man every time.

So my ire is more focused on the owners who are looking to make zero concessions, and demanding countless concessions from the other side.

[Lord-Chiefy]

well after this weekend the regular refs will be demanding more....hehe

[AkChief49]

To me, the only difference from these refs and the normal refs is their professionalism.

These replacement refs are watched very closely and openly scrutinized becasue of the hold out. I can't tell you how many normal games with the same normal refs that I could have said the same things everyone is comlplaining about now. Those refs Refs screw over those games just he same. Even after the review a play and say it is confirmed when everyone sitting behind the TV clearly see somehting different. I can't tell you how many holds I have seen the refs miss watching the games live.

We had super bowl refs blow a Coin toss. We had Play off refs making up the tuck rule. Numerous of Instant replays were refused because a whistle was blown premature just like the Chiefs game. Numerous of Holds missed and phantom holds called.

The only difference, they were not under the spot light as much as these guys are now.

Yes, they had a rough week, more noteably last night but for a majority of the plays they are getting it right. It just takes them to long to look up the rules or show the replay.

They definately need to work on their public speaking and need to script how the call penaties and control the game more by taking the power the NFL gave them and use it instead of being manipulated.

I tend to side with the owners. Wait out a year, then hire the best College Refs next year as they become free agents. Then you will most likely be able to hire the top NFL refs also as they will cross.

Phil Luckett had a hand in Monday night’s debacle | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/25/phil-luckett-had-a-hand-in-monday-nights-debacle/)

Speaking of the blown coin toss, looks like our old pal Phil was in on the debacle last night....again. Perhaps he was making up for the bad super bowl XL deal.:D

[nigeriannightmare]

To me, the only difference from these refs and the normal refs is their professionalism.

These replacement refs are watched very closely and openly scrutinized becasue of the hold out. I can't tell you how many normal games with the same normal refs that I could have said the same things everyone is comlplaining about now. Those refs Refs screw over those games just he same. Even after the review a play and say it is confirmed when everyone sitting behind the TV clearly see somehting different. I can't tell you how many holds I have seen the refs miss watching the games live.

We had super bowl refs blow a Coin toss. We had Play off refs making up the tuck rule. Numerous of Instant replays were refused because a whistle was blown premature just like the Chiefs game. Numerous of Holds missed and phantom holds called.

The only difference, they were not under the spot light as much as these guys are now.

Yes, they had a rough week, more noteably last night but for a majority of the plays they are getting it right. It just takes them to long to look up the rules or show the replay.

They definately need to work on their public speaking and need to script how the call penaties and control the game more by taking the power the NFL gave them and use it instead of being manipulated.

I tend to side with the owners. Wait out a year, then hire the best College Refs next year as they become free agents. Then you will most likely be able to hire the top NFL refs also as they will cross.

I dont agree with this. The officials have been bad since they started the preseason. They cant spot the ball correctly, they are indecisive. They are out of their league period. The NFL could not have expected them to be this bad.

I mean Drew Brees for christs sake is mad as hell. The chiefs game took four hours, yes there was an OT, but six reviewed calls one of which wasn't overturned. They gave san francisco two additional challenges. It hasn't gotten better it has gotten worse. I didn't expect them to be out there this long. I believe in 2001 it lasted 3 weeks but the power conference officials from the ncaas were used.

Yes the regular officials have made mistakes they are human. have they been bad at times, absolutely. But what these officials have been asked to do is unfair to everyone but the nfl and its owners as they continue to make millions. But to say the regular officials are as bad I just don't agree with.

[Connie Jo]

I agree with Seek, in that bad calls, or missed calls, have been occurring within pro football since it began. They can & have changed the outcome of a game, but thankfully, not as often as what seems to be occurring now with the replacement refs.

I also feel badly for the replacement refs, they've somewhat been thrown into the fire, but it was their free will choice. It's a bad situation for everyone, but mostly the coaches, players, and fans.

I've long been in favor of full time NFL refs, rather than part time refs, which a majority of have full time executive & professional careers.

All that said, I'd love to be an NFL ref making what the former pro ref's made!!! Just being that close to the action on the field as a passionate fan would be of value to me, also. PRICELESS!!! ;)

[Chiefster]

I agree with Seek, in that bad calls, or missed calls, have been occurring within pro football since it began. They can & have changed the outcome of a game, but thankfully, not as often as what seems to be occurring now with the replacement refs.

I also feel badly for the replacement refs, they've somewhat been thrown into the fire, but it was their free will choice. It's a bad situation for everyone, but mostly the coaches, players, and fans.

I've long been in favor of full time NFL refs, rather than part time refs, which a majority of have full time executive & professional careers.

All that said, I'd love to be an NFL ref making what the former pro ref's made!!! Just being that close to the action on the field as a passionate fan would be of value to me, also. PRICELESS!!! ;)

Absolutely! I, too, have long been in favor of this. The should have an officiating commission charged with holding them responsible for doing the job correctly and unbiasedly.

[Hayvern]

It isn't Goodell. it is the owners.

And I think they are just trying to bully the refs because they didn't like how the lockout of the players went a year ago.

Myself, I tend to lean toward the working man every time.

So my ire is more focused on the owners who are looking to make zero concessions, and demanding countless concessions from the other side.

Well in this you are wrong. The NFL employs the refs and they are in control of the salaries. The NFL, Goodell and the NFL lawyers are who are in negotiations. In fact, this week, the referees were asking the owners to get involved in the negotiations as the refs felt the owners could help break the stalemate. The owners did refuse to get involved, but the refs would never have asked them to get involved if the owners were not at least somewhat empathetic to getting the ref's issues resolved.