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View Full Version : My take on all this (been a long time).



m0ef0e
10-09-2012, 07:33 PM
I made a case for Matt Cassel coming here when we signed him. I do think that there was some unwarranted hate for the man before he had a chance to prove himself. I acknowledge his time here has been anything but easy. I think he seems like a good guy with a good work ethic and I'm sorry things didn't turn out better on both ends of this deal. I hope he makes a full, speedy recovery and lives a long, happy life. That being said, I do not want to see him under center again in a Chiefs uniform.

After watching him play for the last few seasons, I really don't think Matt Cassel should have been on the field to get injured in the first place. His lackluster performance and turnovers aside, the guy has always looked like a deer in the headlights with pass rushers coming down on him. He just doesn't seem quite athletic enough to evade or absorb hits over a prolonged career in the NFL. I haven't been able to help but think that he was going to eventually get killed out there over the last couple of years. I vividly remember when Trent Green tried to take-off for a run in the twilight of his career against the Bengals when he got knocked out. It was horrible and I get that same feeling in my gut that I'm about to see something terrible each time Cassel is about to take a hit.

Speaking of that hit on Green, I also remember watching Damon Huard get us into the playoffs just to get benched in favor of Green so we could watch that train wreck. While Trent Green did a lot for the Chiefs in his time at QB and I agreed with him getting a shot, Damon Huard at least earned a chance that he never got when it was obvious that Green just wasn't what he had been before. This is just another example of this organization's LOOOOOONG history of playing politics rather than football at quarterback.

A prolonged lack of quality on the field has led to disappointment from the fans that has now grown into hostility. We have a divided fan base and an organization that's all at odds with each other-- a perfect storm that culminated into what we saw and heard on Sunday.

I'm not sure those people who cheered when Cassel went down did so because someone got hurt. While I'm not making excuses for the atrocious behavior of a few drunken hecklers I did hear in the audio, I think maybe most who cheered did so because that was the ONLY possible way that we were ever going to get someone else an opportunity under center. Maybe they were cheering for the thinnest ray of hope as there was NO WAY our gutless head coach and GM would have EVER benched the 66 million dollar man. Will Brady Quinn be our savior? Probably not but Chiefs fans have been drowning in a sea of misery for so long that some will see even the thinnest of threads as a lifeline to drag them up from the abyss.

Besides, anybody who has watched this team for the last 20 years and still hasn't become numbed to the point of hardly giving a damn has to be at least marginally insane. So Matt Cassel got hurt and some insane people cheered... It should have been left at that.

Instead, the same Chris Berman that shared a chuckle with Tom Jackson about Robert Griffin III sustaining a concussion Sunday scolds Chiefs fans on Monday night while fabricating a lie on national TV by saying Matt Cassel was "carted off" the field. I distinctly remember these jackwagons showing highlights of players getting leveled by devastating hits while screaming "HE GOT JACKED UP!" a few years back. It's hard to miss the irony here.

Mike Ditka, who made a career out of crushing people on the football field and regularly complains about the wussification of modern football, slammed chiefs fans for being drunken barbarians. Eric Winston, the player who's comments sparked this firestorm, spoke on radio shows a few months ago about how the players should have held out longer for a better CBA because the current one handed too much authoritarian power to Goodell as comissioner. Winston made these statements in response to the heavy-handed punishments and suspensions levied against the Saints by the league for paying bounties to defensive players for injuring opposing team members and knocking them out of games. Howver, in today's news world, facts evidently don't matter when you've got a story on your hands...

Apparently, ESPN has now joined the ranks of FOX, CNN, and MSNBC as completely-spun BS propaganda outlets that serve an agenda. The fact that there is no actual, factual television news reporting left in America-- not even in sports-- is absolutely and undeniably pathetic.

Now, people are all worked-up over an exaggerated story about how inhumane it is to cheer a concussion to a football player. I'd wager most of these people support spreading more "democracy" across the world with bombs and bullets as if hundreds of thousands of deaths aren't enough already. The hypocrisy train rolls on...

So Chiefs fans will be subsequently crucified, torched, and tossed under the bus. Analysts across the country are drooling all over themselves at an opportunity to make KC look like a bunch of redneck barbarians (their disdain for the Chiefs has been obvious through the years).

Meanwhile, nobody is talking about how these guys are 1-4, leading the league in giveaways, and have not had a lead even once during regulation in any game this season.

Nobody is talking about how the Chiefs were the only team to find the end zone in Sunday's game (twice) but the scores were nullified by garbage refs that are no better than the scabs that replaced them while they were striking for more money to throw games on crap calls (this is far from the first time I thought a chunk of the owners in the league may still have an axe to grind from the AFL days). For the record, the Falcons ran that same pick play on us a dozen times or more in week 1 and I watched the Patriots doing the same thing to the Broncos just this past Sunday. Flacco's fumble can go right up there with the "simultaneous possession" fiasco between the Packers and Seahawks a few weeks ago in the BS category.

...but we're not talking about football. We're talking about how "horrible" and "classless" the fans are in KC...

The front office, coaches, and players are probably welcoming the distraction as the people that made all of these dudes rich take the heat. Chiefs fans keep paying for gold and getting dung in return. At a time where these guys SHOULD be taking flak from the fans, they have been turned into martyrs and the fans that have carried them on their backs for so long are now put on the defensive as their integrity is assaulted as a whole. Eric Winston was right about one thing, this whole mess is sickening and stinks to high heaven. It's sad that after 20 years, I doubt I'd give half a damn if Clark Hunt moved this "team" to LA tomorrow...

I really don't think I can stomach watching this franchise ruin Jamaal Charles' career/life by expecting him to run the ball 500 times this season. This guy is a special talent and it will be unforgivable to burn him out in one (losing) season.

I still want to give Romeo a hug. He seems like a really great, nice person. He just doesn't seem to be a very good coach. Running Jamaal Charles into the ground and risking his health/career to isolate your QB from mistakes/criticism is about as poor as game planning gets. Hire a true head coach or defensive coordinator. We have the defensive version of Todd Haley one year after letting him go...

Brian Daboll sucks. We passed on Al Saunders for this guy?! Really?! <facepalm> His offenses couldn't score in Cleveland and Miami and his offense can't score here in KC. Who DIDN'T see this coming?

Scott f'in Pioli is the most overrated trash that has EVER been pawned-off on this franchise. You could combine Todd Blacklidge, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, and Matt Cassel and still not be even in the same ballpark of BS hype masking the utter incompetence of this current GM. I really didn't think there was any way in hell it would be possible to do worse than Carl Peterson. I was wrong.

I've been through bad times and the not-so-bad times but now is an all-time low to be a Chiefs fan.

brdempsey69
10-09-2012, 07:48 PM
Good thread. Most certainly in 100% agreement with this part of it:



Scott f'in Pioli is the most overrated trash that has EVER been pawned-off on this franchise. You could combine Todd Blacklidge, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, and Matt Cassel and still not be even in the same ballpark of BS hype masking the utter incompetence of this current GM. I really didn't think there was any way in hell it would be possible to do worse than Carl Peterson. I was wrong.


I also want that Potato-headed, egomaniacal S.O.B. out of KC after this season.

Bike
10-09-2012, 09:02 PM
Pioli has ruined this organization with his egotistic attitude and just an overall piss-poor job. Hiding from the fans that support his @$$ is bull$h!t. At least Carl Peterson had the nads to have a weekly talk show. Fans at least were able to see him, hear him, and talk Chiefs with him. Screw Scott Pioli.
Scott Pioli has failed Kansas City and Clark would be wise to fire this clown IMMEDIATELY.

m0ef0e
10-09-2012, 10:37 PM
Many of the guys who's names get called every week on this team were drafted by Peterson, before Pioli's time:

Jamaal Charles
Tamba Hali
Derrick Johnson
Brandon Flowers
Dwayne Bowe

Connie Jo
10-09-2012, 10:47 PM
Well, y'all will be disappointed if the current media & other source rumors circulating now are true. Those rumors are, that Clark Hunt has extended Scott Pioli's contract for another 3 years.

Assuming those rumors are true, the only way Scott Pioli will leave KC is if he himself for some reason decides to resign.

I'm far to weary to debate, so will just end with...I'm one of many fans I know of, who are hoping the rumors are true and support Pioli 100%. My reasons I believe are justified. To each their own perspective, but as a resident of KC, season ticket holder, I've witnessed & experienced the improvements to the franchise overall that Pioli has made since arriving in KC 2009. There is more to a GM's role than what spectating fans observe from a distance on the field of play...much more!

GO CHIEFS!!!

Bortnem
10-09-2012, 10:57 PM
I 100% agree with this thread. Well thought out and well said. Could not agree more with coaches and GM. Romeo is a great person and great D coordinator and we may lose him now because we gave him to much responsibility. I hope this all works out soon, but regardless we need to draft a franchise qb. Even if we draft a bust (hope this never happens), I would give management respect because at least they would be trying to find a franchise qb, which is more than I can say about them now. We have most if not all the remaining pieces to be contenders, but it is a qb driven league and we have career backups playing the most important position.

Connie Jo
10-09-2012, 11:02 PM
I will counter point, that it was Scott Pioli who also retained the roster talent listed above by re-signing them:

Hali, DJ, Flowers, Charles...

Peterson?...have y'all conveniently forgotten all the players of talent he cut or traded and didn't retain, which hurt our team? IE: Neil Smith, Jared Allen, Tony Richardson, Lawrence Tynes

As well, it was under Peterson that Tony G. asked to be traded. The negotiations with Atlanta had begun under Peterson, Pioli only finished them up as Tony requested he do.

Pioli has drafted himself:

Succop, Lewis, Houston, Hudson, McCluster, Baldwin, Berry...all of which have contributed postively to our Chiefs team! The final verdict is still out on Powe, Poe, Arenas, but many men who once played the game and are pro analysts...say they have the potential to be of benefit to our team once given the fair amount of time most at their positions require to evolve.

SI, ESPN, and many other pro analysts sources have said Pioli has built one of the finest, most solid rosters of young talent in the NFL.

Too many fans are currently obsessed with one position only, the QB, and as such, failing to give Pioli credit for all the positive changes he's made to our franchise & team since 2009. He's done more to improve our franchise than Peterson did in his last decade, and he did so within 3 completed seasons. We've not finished our 4th season yet.

It takes an average of 3-5 years for a new GM & team to reach consistent playoff caliber, with 5 being the the magic number for most. Those who have done it in 3 are exceptions.

Browns, poor Browns...year 5 was their magic number, but the fan base chased them away to Baltimore before the 5th year under new management. Such a shame really, that they lost the future Lombardi to the new Baltimore fans due to their impatience at the time.

Atlanta...Dimitroff took over 2008, he's now in his 5th year...look how well they're doing...there's that magic number 5 year, again, hahaha.

GO CHIEFS!!!!

Bike
10-09-2012, 11:31 PM
Dimitroff and Pioli are MILES apart in their respective philosophies. Although both came from the Patriot tree, Dimitroff built the Falcons HIS way - not Belichick's way. He went out and drafted himself a franchise QB - he didn't trade for a backup qb from somebody else.
There is a reason coaches (Fisher) and players (Manning) don't want to be here. That reason is Scott Pioli and his pick up that gum wrapper management style.
All we have ever needed was a good HC and a franchse QB to be a great team. Dimitroff has delivered both to Atlanta - Pioli has delivered neither. Pioli has failed and needs to go - NOW.

Ryfo18
10-09-2012, 11:40 PM
[QUOTE=Bike;268271]He went out and drafted himself a franchise QB - he didn't trade for a backup qb from somebody else. /QUOTE]

The difference with that and Pioli's situation is that Atlanta was fortunate enough to have a talented quarterback fall to them at #3.

Here's the 1st round QBs Pioli has passed on that he could have taken without trading up:

Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Tim Tebow

That's it!

The problem behind all of this is that Matt Cassel isn't that good. But we also haven't had a great opportunity to draft a good quarterback.

Connie Jo
10-09-2012, 11:42 PM
I can't believe Chiefs fans are calling Scott Pioli "trash", among other foul disrespectful names, yet in the same discussion are bashing media for portraying Chiefs fans as disrespectful?? One can express their frustrations and upset without resorting to foul vulgar name calling.

By the way...I was at the game Sunday, as well were many friends, all sitting in various sections of Arrowhead. The behavior Eric Winston spoke of was observed by all of us to some degree. It depended upon where you were as to what was heard or seen, as fans in upper level don't hear the noise the same as those in lower, & vice versa. No, it wasn't 70,000...but I'd say judging from experiences of those present who heard it...it was about 1/8 of the fans at least. No, it was not confused with cheering for something else. These people were hollering comments of joy that clearly indicated their happiness for Matt's injury.

It was enough that it not only upset Eric, but other Chiefs players also, and some Ravens players who heard it too. A couple of them gave brief public comments saying it was unsettling & appalled them.

Some fans attempt to justify & excuse such repulsive behavior, saying things like...I pay their salaries, I buy tickets, I buy team gear, I can say or do whatever I want because I spend money on them so I have that right! I'm tired of losing, so they deserve to be treated like dirt!

Really? So, our society has failed to a point that it now accepts, excuses, or justifies verbal & emotional abuse of pro athletes? Why, because they make millions? Because as fans we contribute to that salary? Because they don't win enough?

Well, I buy tickets, attend every home game. I buy team gear. It is a free will choice I make to be a Chiefs fan and spend money as a fan. No where on the receipts does it say by buying tickets or team gear, that I have bought the right to verbally abuse the QB, nor any other member of the team. These men are human beings first & foremost, just like you and me, they deserve respect as fellow human beings.

Younger generations are learning behavior set by the example of adults. Monkey see, monkey do. There is no justification nor excuse in verbally abusing another human being for doing nothing wrong other than he isn't good enough by their standards to win.

My role as a fan is to support my team, enjoy myself as fan, which I do in many ways. I am nothing more than an amateur spectating fan. I do not have the professional inside knowledge, years of dedication & on field experience, nor education that qualifies me to be a GM, Coach, nor player of an extremely complex multi million dollar NFL franchise. I've never walked in the shoes of a GM, Coach, nor player. As such, I have no legitimacy in thinking I know more than they do about the game, enough so to arrogantly tell them how to do their jobs.

I am a fan, by my own free will choice, no one forces me to be a fan, just a fan...nothing more or less. GO CHIEFS!!!!

Connie Jo
10-09-2012, 11:56 PM
Dimitroff and Pioli are MILES apart in their respective philosophies. Although both came from the Patriot tree, Dimitroff built the Falcons HIS way - not Belichick's way. He went out and drafted himself a franchise QB - he didn't trade for a backup qb from somebody else.
There is a reason coaches (Fisher) and players (Manning) don't want to be here. That reason is Scott Pioli and his pick up that gum wrapper management style.
All we have ever needed was a good HC and a franchse QB to be a great team. Dimitroff has delivered both to Atlanta - Pioli has delivered neither. Pioli has failed and needs to go - NOW.

Might I suggest you do some research? Scott Pioli is, & has always been an adviser to Dimitroff, including draft advice. Dimitroff calls Pioli for advice, and follows it. IE: He contacted Pioli & Belichick both related to advice on drafting a WR for Atlanta. Belichick advised him not to trade up, to draft Baldwin. Pioli advised him to trade up for Julio Jones, & told Dimitroff that Jones was worthy of giving up to 5 picks for. Dimitroff took Pioli's advice, drafted Jones. Oh, by the way, Pioli drafted Baldwin the same year.

Furthermore, Belichick has been struggling drafting talent since Pioli left, which blows some anti Pioli Chiefs fans theory, that Belichick was the brains behind drafting talent in NE, rather not Pioli.

I'm often in the dark like many fans, so I spend countless hours digging for the truth/facts, doing research, prior to forming judgments. I don't watch TV sports talk shows, nor listen to radio sports, who are nothing more than journalist spectators speculating with individual opinions just like us fans. Yet, many fans take what they hear from sports talk show hosts as being gospel. Media stirs controversy for sake of ratings & profit, self agenda.

IslandKing77
10-10-2012, 12:03 AM
Please stop feeding Trollie Jo.

Anyone advocating for Pioli cannot be serious.

m0ef0e
10-10-2012, 12:09 AM
I really do like some of the talent Pioli has brought in and the media is hard on him because he has shut them out so much.

I was never making a case that Peterson was somehow good... I remember all the draft busts.

I really want to believe that we have competent leadership. It's a shame this has all turned so ugly.

There's plenty of blame to spread around but we have a game on Sunday...

IslandKing77
10-10-2012, 12:16 AM
I really do like some of the talent Pioli has brought in and the media is hard on him because he has shut them out so much.

I was never making a case that Peterson was somehow good... I remember all the draft busts.

I really want to believe that we have competent leadership. It's a shame this has all turned so ugly.

I want to believe in things too. I want to believe my politicians, I want to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. The evidence suggests otherwise, and at the end of the day you have to weigh the evidence on its own merit. The laws of physics don't allow for a fat man delivering toys to all the good christian children in one night and the end product that the takes the field in Chiefs uniforms doesn't indicate that the general manager is doing his job right.

I wish he was, he'll I'd even settle for him to start now but all evidence indicates this isn't the case. Even after the horrible effort in Kansas City again the Chargers, they wouldn't even prep Quinn to play a little bit for the Ravens game.

For Crennel to say he never considered bringing Cassel out of that game... there's only two conclusion. Dementia or Crennel was TOLD that he was not taking Cassel out of the game.

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 12:17 AM
Dimitroff and Pioli are MILES apart in their respective philosophies. Although both came from the Patriot tree, Dimitroff built the Falcons HIS way - not Belichick's way. He went out and drafted himself a franchise QB - he didn't trade for a backup qb from somebody else.
There is a reason coaches (Fisher) and players (Manning) don't want to be here. That reason is Scott Pioli and his pick up that gum wrapper management style.
All we have ever needed was a good HC and a franchse QB to be a great team. Dimitroff has delivered both to Atlanta - Pioli has delivered neither. Pioli has failed and needs to go - NOW.

More facts & truth from digging & doing my own research, rather than listen to hearsay.

Jeff Fisher flew to Clark Hunts private home in Dallas to meet with Hunt & Pioli. Now, if Fisher didn't want to come to KC...why in the hell did he waste his time flying to Hunts home in Dallas to be interviewed for the HC position?

Fisher chose to accept the job with the Rams, and he stated clearly on public format, that the reason he chose the Rams was because they had Bradford in place, and they had the #2 draft spot. That #2 draft spot afforded him to be in a very pretty new HC position, obtaining multiple picks trading the spot to the Skins so they could take RGIII.

The "gum wrapper"? Oh, you mean the one the Star reported about, of which an unconfirmed source known to be a former employee Pioli had fired, told the Star about? Oh, that would be the same Star that has not liked Pioli since he came to KC, because he tightened up media leaks within the organization? The same Star that has the power to crucify Pioli out of vindictiveness with the public, a public who believes every thing they say.

The Star has a self agenda related to crucifying Pioli with the masses...he didn't kiss their butts like Peterson did!

Manning? That would be the same Manning who talked to Pioli in depth on the phone for well over an hour about possibly coming to KC? The same Manning who is good friends with Pioli, Brady, & Cassel? The same Manning who after going to Denver said in an interview, that one of the reasons Denver appealed to him is because Elway offered to sign his close personal friend, Stokely? That's right, wherever Manning went, Stokely was part of the deal. It just so happens, that Stokely also makes his private permanent residence in Denver.


Oh, and that would be the same Manning who was an high injury risk concern for any team signing him? Who said publicly he would never be the same QB as in his prime, and didn't expect to be? The same Manning who has been inconsistent & struggling at times in Denver?

I have never been among those who are big Manning fans. I didn't want him in KC for justified reasons, most of which have been mentioned above. I don't want some other teams franchise QB who's nearing retirement, a high injury risk, facing yet another neck surgery to remove bone spurs (Manning said so himself). I don't want a temporary fix, of which Manning couldn't guarantee a short term fix, anyway. We tried that with Montana, didn't win a Lombardi. Manning has won one Lombardi in 14 years, no guarantee's.

There have been no feasible options for Pioli to draft a QB of the talent caliber he's seeking. Colts & Skins had the best two sewn up last year. Skins made it clear they would not be outbid for the Rams #2 spot to obtain RGIII. Colts weren't willing to trade their #1 pick. The remaining QB's were higher risk factors to be busts.

:beat_DeadHorse:

ctchiefsfan
10-10-2012, 12:24 AM
Please stop feeding Trollie Jo.

Anyone advocating for Pioli cannot be serious.

UTTERLY uncalled for and you should apologize!

AkChief49
10-10-2012, 12:32 AM
UTTERLY uncalled for and you should apologize!
I concur! CJ is nothing but an upstanding/outstanding member of this board.

And her title- "Official Chiefs Crowd / Historian/Correspondent / Ambassador"- says it all.

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 12:46 AM
Please stop feeding Trollie Jo.

Anyone advocating for Pioli cannot be serious.

Insults? Why? Because my opinion as a fan of 50 years disagree's with yours? Riiiight!!!

:lol:

Chiefster
10-10-2012, 01:08 AM
Please stop feeding Trollie Jo.

Anyone advocating for Pioli cannot be serious.

I can see how looking in the mirror you could justifiably make reference to a troll, but there is no way you will ever successfully make the name "Trollie Jo" stick to Connie. On the other hand you're proving, almost with every post reply, the many ways in which that term can be attributed to you.

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 01:20 AM
Please stop feeding Trollie Jo.

Anyone advocating for Pioli cannot be serious.

For sake of serious credibility, haha...I have justified reasons for being an advocate of Scott Pioli. You see, I didn't just give him my respect & admiration foolishly, just as I didn't foolishly buy into the media circus or hearsay crapola of others bashing him. I form opinions as an independent thinker, free of bias & outside influence.

I do my research thoroughly before making judgments. My research extends beyond the field of play, although, I wisely consider what I see on the field of play, also. I look below the surface & see the good things occurring on the field that are improvements, evolution of talent, & more. I don't just focus on the QB, because I'm wise enough to know that one man doesn't win or lose games. I'm also wise enough to see, that much of what Cassel has been blamed for wasn't his fault, although granted, he makes mistakes.

I've also met the man known as Scott Pioli. I visited with him for quite a while one on one. He was absolutely nothing in personality as the media & others have portrayed him to be. He wasn't egotistical, he was humble, he wasn't rude, he was a gentleman, he wasn't brash, he was kind, and he has a great sense of humor.

This man, accused by many of not being accessible & open to fans...sought me out, 'me', no one special, just a fan. Scott Pioli sought me out he said, because he wanted to personally thank me for comments I had made earlier in the evening to him, Clark Hunt, and Chiefs President Mark Donovan. He told me that my comments meant the world to him, & he was very appreciative. He didn't have to do that, but that's the REAL MAN Scott Pioli is, that the media never mentions.

He made it very clear to me, that the Chiefs had become a part of his heart, and he was fully dedicated to being the best GM he could be. He also made it clear, that his goal is to do all he can within power & reason, to make the Chiefs a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

You may not believe him, but I looked in to the mans eyes when he spoke, observed the emotions when he spoke of the KC Chiefs. I'm a good part American Indian, Shawnee & Cree tribes...as such, I judge honesty by a persons eyes. The tongue may lie, but the eyes can not. He may never win a Super Bowl in KC, but he's going to do his damn best trying. His best may not be good enough for you, but it's good enough for me.

GO CHIEFS!!!

:lol:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/connieemery/Pioli-me.jpg

brdempsey69
10-10-2012, 01:26 AM
Well, y'all will be disappointed if the current media & other source rumors circulating now are true. Those rumors are, that Clark Hunt has extended Scott Pioli's contract for another 3 years.

Assuming those rumors are true, the only way Scott Pioli will leave KC is if he himself for some reason decides to resign.


GO CHIEFS!!!

And so goes the saying:

"If the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch together"

That will tell anyone all they need to know as to whether the Chiefs are serious about being a playoff contending team or just being a political organization only interested in collecting the profits if Pioli is retained.

I, for one, will not be attending any more Chiefs games, as long as Potato Head is the GM. He can't even begin to be compared to the best GM the Chiefs ever had which was Don Klosterman.

If Pioli is retained, all I can say is good luck Chiefs and Chiefs fans as far as any post-season success is concerned --- you're going to need it.




There have been no feasible options for Pioli to draft a QB of the talent caliber he's seeking. Colts & Skins had the best two sewn up last year. Skins made it clear they would not be outbid for the Rams #2 spot to obtain RGIII. Colts weren't willing to trade their #1 pick. The remaining QB's were higher risk factors to be busts.



That, my dear, is a crock of BS. In 2011, Andy Dalton was projected as a late 1st rounder, early 2nd rounder & went just 9 picks later at #35 after they selected Baldwin at #26 and they could have easily justified taking Dalton at #26 after trading down. The Chiefs had no viable backup for Cassel or anyone to challenge him at the time. Dalton was a productive college player and a Rose Bowl winner.

Also was Pioli willing to take a chance on Jimmy Clausen with one of those two 2nd round picks in 2010, even though Clausen had played under the new Chiefs OC Weis in 2009 and had a great year?

Just what "QB of talent caliber" is Pioli seeking when he trades the #34 overall pick in 2009 for a backup QB that never started a college game & pays him franchise QB money, without Cassel proving first that he was worthy of it in KC?

A blind man with a cane can see the contradiction, here.

2010chiefs
10-10-2012, 01:39 AM
Connie Jo, for me it speaks volumes in that the Chiefs would not bench Cassel starting with the game against the Chargers and specially against the Ravens. It was embarassing to watch Cassel hand the ball off over and over and over including third and longs. The coaches do not trust Cassel throwing the ball and it's clear to thousands and thousands of fans.
Pioli has lost complete crediblity for not benching Cassel more then anything else.
Can you honestly say that Cassel did not deserve to be benched on Sunday??
Cassel threw the ball only 15 times but they rushed 50.
NO confidence in Cassel at all!

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 01:45 AM
And so goes the saying:

"If the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch together"

That will tell anyone all they need to know as to whether the Chiefs are serious about being a playoff contending team or just being a political organization only interested in collecting the profits if Pioli is retained.

I, for one, will not be attending any more Chiefs games, as long as Potato Head is the GM. He can't even begin to be compared to the best GM the Chiefs ever had which was Don Klosterman.

If Pioli is retained, all I can say is good luck Chiefs and Chiefs fans as far as any post-season success is concerned --- you're going to need it.



That, my dear, is a crock of BS. In 2011, Andy Dalton was projected as a late 1st rounder, early 2nd rounder & went just 9 picks later at #35 after they selected Baldwin at #26 and they could have easily justified taking Dalton at #26 after trading down. The Chiefs had no viable backup for Cassel or anyone to challenge him at the time. Dalton was a productive college player and a Rose Bowl winner.

Also was Pioli willing to take a chance on Jimmy Clausen with one of those two 2nd round picks in 2010, even though Clausen had played under the new Chiefs OC Weis in 2009 and had a great year?

Just what "QB of talent caliber" is Pioli seeking when he trades the #34 overall pick in 2009 for a backup QB that never started a college game & pays him franchise QB money, without Cassel proving first that he was worthy of it in KC?

A blind man with a cane can see the contradiction, here.

He wanted RGIII...that's it, no one but RGIII. You can fault him for not considering any talent beyond RGIII, but that's who he wanted in 2012.

Now, this is just mere speculation on my part, other than I know for a fact how impressed & intrigued Pioli was with RGIII...I believe when Pioli couldn't make it possible to draft RGIII, he began to focus on a similar talent & personality in the 2013 draft. He's fully aware of what talent will be up & coming in the draft a few years before they do enter the draft. He might not get the man he's after in 2013 either, but he'll be in a better position to try, than he was in 2012.

Time will tell. ;)

chief31
10-10-2012, 01:51 AM
Connie Jo, for me it speaks volumes in that the Chiefs would not bench Cassel starting with the game against the Chargers and specially against the Ravens. It was embarassing to watch Cassel hand the ball off over and over and over including third and longs. The coaches do not trust Cassel throwing the ball and it's clear to thousands and thousands of fans.
Pioli has lost complete crediblity for not benching Cassel more then anything else.
Can you honestly say that Cassel did not deserve to be benched on Sunday??
Cassel threw the ball only 15 times but they rushed 50.
NO confidence in Cassel at all!

Just because you blame Cassel certainly doesn't mean that those involved do.

It doesn't take much to see that the rest of the offense is plagued with idiocy.

Even.Charles has been pretty worthless at times. He was pretty scarce for the first few games, and he struggled to hold onto the football.

Cassel has been no worse than the rest of the offense.

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 01:59 AM
Connie Jo, for me it speaks volumes in that the Chiefs would not bench Cassel starting with the game against the Chargers and specially against the Ravens. It was embarassing to watch Cassel hand the ball off over and over and over including third and longs. The coaches do not trust Cassel throwing the ball and it's clear to thousands and thousands of fans.
Pioli has lost complete crediblity for not benching Cassel more then anything else.
Can you honestly say that Cassel did not deserve to be benched on Sunday??
Cassel threw the ball only 15 times but they rushed 50.
NO confidence in Cassel at all!

You have to try and understand the business side of the game, and the position Hunt & Pioli were put in by fans on Sunday. Some fans had begun a campaign to "bench Cassel" prior to the game. Actually, they began the campaign during pre-season, but took it to an extreme on Sunday, when they paid hundreds of dollars to have an airplane fly a negative slogan over Arrowhead stating in part, "Bench Cassel!".

I'm not sure of this, and can not confirm it...but there's a possibility there have been threats received towards the front offices by rogue angry fans. Security was elevated at the game Sunday, that much I do know is fact.

The last thing the owner of a multi million dollar corporation should do...is allow rogue angry fans to bully or intimidate him into doing as they demand. Think of it in this aspect...terrorism, but not on a political level of course. Fans were attempting to 'terrorize' Clark Hunt into surrendering control of the franchise over to them. Not literally of course, but had he given in to their demands, allowed them to bully or intimidate him...it would never stop, only worsen. You can't allow amateur spectating fans to make corporate level decisions they have no professional knowledge, education, nor experience, or credentials to make.

:(

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 02:19 AM
Just because you blame Cassel certainly doesn't mean that those involved do.

It doesn't take much to see that the rest of the offense is plagued with idiocy.

Even.Charles has been pretty worthless at times. He was pretty scarce for the first few games, and he struggled to hold onto the football.

Cassel has been no worse than the rest of the offense.

THIS!!!!

Many fans blamed Cassel for the fumble on the goal line Sunday. It didn't matter that the snapper himself admitted publicly he was the one who fumbled the snap, not Cassel. One interception was a pass tipped by Bowe that was easily catchable, right through his hands into the hands of a defender.

I know Cassel isn't an elite QB, he's not perfect, makes his fair share of mistakes...but I don't see fans flying banners to bench Charles, whose been struggling as he was in 2009 with fumbles. I don't see banners asking to bench Bowe, who's notorious for dropping passes.

All that said, with living in KC I've seen the belittlement towards Cassel by fans for weeks, months. Look at the MLB All Star Charity game this past summer...fans booing him for playing in a charity game unrelated to the Chiefs & football? In front of the world, no less. I see signs at the game being held up, making fun of Cassel, attempting to humiliate him.

The fans begin booing him & the offense when he takes the field for the first time, before he or any of them make any errors. The booing continues throughout the games, every time the offense takes the field, thousands of fans boo. They also heckle him behind the players bench, on the sidelines. I hear fans screaming obscenities at Cassel in my section every game. It's so sad. It wasn't the entire stadium, but it is true that several hundred to a few thousand fans were yelling comments of joy when Cassel was hurt. It wasn't "cheering" like occurs with a first down, persay, it was yelling comments & applauding happy he was hurt, according to what I heard & saw myself, and what many friends throughout various sections of the stadium heard/saw also.

Y'all watching at home don't see much of this happening, but I see it attending every home game.

Now, I have to wonder...is it any wonder why the man, Cassel, has lost confidence in himself? A majority of the fan base has been belittling & humiliating him for weeks/months. It doesn't matter how much money he makes, nor that he's a pro athlete...he's still a human being first & foremost. He has emotions just like we do, and he's vulnerable as a human to being beaten down emotionally by verbal abuse/belittlement.

chief31
10-10-2012, 02:19 AM
You have to try and understand the business side of the game, and the position Hunt & Pioli were put in by fans on Sunday. Some fans had begun a campaign to "bench Cassel" prior to the game. Actually, they began the campaign during pre-season, but took it to an extreme on Sunday, when they paid hundreds of dollars to have an airplane fly a negative slogan over Arrowhead stating in part, "Bench Cassel!".

I'm not sure of this, and can not confirm it...but there's a possibility there have been threats received towards the front offices by rogue angry fans. Security was elevated at the game Sunday, that much I do know is fact.

The last thing the owner of a multi million dollar corporation should do...is allow rogue angry fans to bully or intimidate him into doing as they demand. Think of it in this aspect...terrorism, but not on a political level of course. Fans were attempting to 'terrorize' Clark Hunt into surrendering control of the franchise over to them. Not literally of course, but had he given in to their demands, allowed them to bully or intimidate him...it would never stop, only worsen. You can't allow amateur spectating fans to make corporate level decisions they have no professional knowledge, education, nor experience, or credentials to make.

:(

I agree. But I wonder if he might now be forced to do what they want to diffuse the situation since is about out of control.

The element of mutiny is not cooling off, even after gardening a s***Ty reputation for Chiefs fans... It actually seems to be worsening.

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 02:38 AM
You know, many fans are mad at Eric Winston for speaking out angrily towards fans who were happy when Cassel was hurt. I don't blame him. If someone I cared about were laying on the ground injured, and I heard bystanders yelling comments of joy...I'd be mad too. In Erics mind, considering the months of negative fans booing the offense at home games, banners & signs belittling Cassel & the offense....it likely did to Eric feel like the entire fan base had turned on them at the time.

Our Chiefs players form a family bond, they're a team of brothers. We see that emotional bond displayed often when they're protective of one another on the field and get in fights with opposing players. Winston wasn't the only Chiefs player who commented about it, others did briefly, including a couple Ravens players who said they were appalled by fans yelling comments of joy their QB was hurt. :(

When we played the Chargers, former Chief, Jackie Battle, now a Charger, also made public comments to the media related to how bad & unfair KC has treated Cassel. Habitual booing of Cassel & the offense occurred then, too.

I must wonder if our offense isn't struggling as whole, including Charles' increase in fumbles this season...because of all the negative fan distractions occurring? My gosh, even when they won in New Orleans, many fans weren't happy, they & media both picked apart the win.

The players I'm friends with on Facebook, use to happily interact with fans on Facebook, but they don't now. They've withdrawn. The overwhelming negativity is separating the bond the players once felt with the fans, too. I don't know that deep down they have the heart, or spirit, wanting to win for us any longer. :(

matthewschiefs
10-10-2012, 02:46 AM
Scoot Pioli deserves some criticism for the job he has done while in Kc I don't think that anyone will deny that. I don't think that he has lived up to the hype that he came to Kc with. But I think that to say that he is worse then Carl Peterson is a bit of a reach.

Pioli has made mistakes 3 are the most talked about.

1st Matt Cassel. I don't think anyone really thinks that he's going to be the guy. I didn't love the trade when we made it to get him and he showed some signs that maybe he can indeed be the guy but he has never been able to do it on a consistent level in the 3 plus years that he has been in KC. Chances are that he won't ever be able to do it on that consistent level if he hasn't by now. He takes a lot more heat then he should. There have been times the offense has struggled not having anything to do with Cassel. There have been times Cassel has put the balls on WRs hands and they haven't done there job. Cassel was a mistake but not as big of one as many think. He did have some good times. I know I know you will throw the weak opponent thing at me but I have already mentioned in a number of threads those "weak teams" beat some VERY good qbs. In 2010 the teams that Cassel beat managed to beat Drew Brees not once but Twice. No matter how much you dislike that fact Cassel was not Worthless. He had some great moments. He was a mistake but he was not a unforgivable one.

2 Tyson Jackson. Jackson there is no doubt has not lived up to being the 3rd overall pick in the draft. I don't think there has been many if any saying that he has. But there have been 1st and 2nd picks overall that have been less players then what Jackson is. Jackson is not a star. He's not a lead player on defense but he is a solid part of the defense. Not every pick is going to be "superstars" And It's never a horrible mistake to get a solid player. At the end of last season there were some articles written about Jackson's value to the defense. He does bring something to the table. A reach of a pick yes. But any pick can be that. There's not a gm that hasn't had a pick that hasn't really lived up to there pick. Again a mistake yes but not as big of one as some like to think.

3. Todd Haley. This was a mistake there were some more proven football coaches out there Head coaches out there and Pioli went with a guy known for being a hot head who had zero head coaching background. This one was a mistake IMO the biggest that Pioli has made. This is the biggest black eye on Pioli that I see. Haleys hot headed actions made this team suffer. He was at times an embarrassment to both himself and the Chiefs franchise. This one there is no defending. Haley was as big of a mistake as people think.

Even with those clear mistakes I think some Ignore or don't want to see the good things that Pioli has done in KC. First of all he has shown for the most part that he can keep talent in KC. Yes he let Carr go. But I can tell you I have heard from some Cowboys fans already the they over paid for Carr. Letting a guy go is not always a mistake. He also Drafted Justin Houston in the 3rd round. Houston is playing like a 1st rounder. He gives us anther pass rusher outside of Hali. I think that can make up for the Jackson reach. Dexter McCluster is anther guy who has shown he can bring value for this team. He was HUGE in our offense when Charles went down a year ago. Almost getting to 1,00 yards between his time in the backfield and at WR. This year week 1 he was the leading WR got hurt in the saints game and has felt the effects. But he has done things to help this team. Ryan Succopp has made big time kicks. Drafting a kicker is not a sure thing (see Justin Metlock)

All in all Pioli has not been as great as we all hoped he hasn't lived up to the hype but he has not been as bad as alot of us are making him out to be. There needs to be some heat on his seat for the mistakes that he has made. And he needs to let go with Cassel. But he has imporved this team from the day he took over. I think some of us are forgetting just how bad this team was in 2008. There were a few players who just wanted out it was so bad. Allen,Tony G to name the biggest two. And as a result for a couple of years Allen had as more sacks alone then the Chiefs did as a team. That's just how bad the team was. We are not that bad right now lets take a step back and look at the whole picture and not just at the mistakes he has made. Pioli needs to have the pressure for his job kicked up a bit but it's not to the point where fireing him is the only option I think that next year will be that year if this team doesn't show a big improvement when it comes to wins then what we are seeing now.

brdempsey69
10-10-2012, 03:17 AM
For sake of serious credibility, haha...I have justified reasons for being an advocate of Scott Pioli.



So what? Many of us have even more justified reasons for being against him than you have justified reasons for being an advocate of him.



You see, I didn't just give him my respect & admiration foolishly, just as I didn't foolishly buy into the media circus or hearsay crapola of others bashing him. I form opinions as an independent thinker, free of bias & outside influence.


Neither did any of us that are opposed to him. The success of the Chiefs on the field & what he's done with his drafts, coaching decisions, player management etc. has told us all we needed to know.



I do my research thoroughly before making judgments. My research extends beyond the field of play, although, I wisely consider what I see on the field of play, also. I look below the surface & see the good things occurring on the field that are improvements, evolution of talent, & more.


Then how can you not see that the Chiefs are right back in the same disarray that they were when Pioli became the GM in 2009? Granted the roster has improved, but the coaching staff has gone though 2 HC's and 5 OC's and still no NFL-starting caliber QB.



I don't just focus on the QB, because I'm wise enough to know that one man doesn't win or lose games.



People are focusing on the QB because they can easily see that is the most glaring problem with the Chiefs thus far this year & the obvious missing piece of the Chiefs puzzle. The Chiefs haven't had a poised and confident leader at QB who can throw the damn football accurately with any regularity through the first 4 and 3/4 games and it's killing them.




I'm also wise enough to see, that much of what Cassel has been blamed for wasn't his fault, although granted, he makes mistakes.



What he has been blamed for, that I have seen, is his inaccarute passes that have nearly gotten receivers killed, his inability to lead his team to victory against teams with winning records, his inability to read defenses, his continually staring down receivers, his inability to throw the deep ball, his lack of pocket presence -- all of which are the GOSPEL TRUTH !!

He's also lost his self confidence and the confidence of the rest of the team.



I've also met the man known as Scott Pioli. I visited with him for quite a while one on one. He was absolutely nothing in personality as the media & others have portrayed him to be. He wasn't egotistical, he was humble, he wasn't rude, he was a gentleman, he wasn't brash, he was kind, and he has a great sense of humor.

This man, accused by many of not being accessible & open to fans...sought me out, 'me', no one special, just a fan. Scott Pioli sought me out he said, because he wanted to personally thank me for comments I had made earlier in the evening to him, Clark Hunt, and Chiefs President Mark Donovan. He told me that my comments meant the world to him, & he was very appreciative. He didn't have to do that, but that's the REAL MAN Scott Pioli is, that the media never mentions.



But, of course, it's quite natural for him to give access to those that have a flattering tongue. Does he do the same for those that don't flatter him and question what he does & tell him that they don't see it his way? Fat chance.



He made it very clear to me, that the Chiefs had become a part of his heart, and he was fully dedicated to being the best GM he could be. He also made it clear, that his goal is to do all he can within power & reason, to make the Chiefs a legitimate Super Bowl contender.


Ever hear of the saying "just because someone is p!ssing on your head, doesn't mean it's raining"?

Sorry, but he's done anything BUT make the Chiefs a legit contender. Right now, they are the laughing stock of the NFL.



You may not believe him, but I looked in to the mans eyes when he spoke, observed the emotions when he spoke of the KC Chiefs. I'm a good part American Indian, Shawnee & Cree tribes...as such, I judge honesty by a persons eyes. The tongue may lie, but the eyes can not.


Sorry, but you are starting to sound like you flunked biology class. It is physically impossible to tell if one is lying from their eyes. The eyes don't speak verbally, the mouth does.

Perhaps you should consider pulling Pioli's tongue out of his head next time you meet up with him. That way nobody will have to worry about whether he lies or tells the truth. :D



He may never win a Super Bowl in KC, but he's going to do his damn best trying. His best may not be good enough for you, but it's good enough for me.


He hasn't even got this team competitive with the average teams in the NFL, thus far. If what he's done thus far is good enough for you, then it's quite obvious ( and the pic of you with Pioli clearly illustrates this ) that you are letting sentiment get in the way of sound judgement.

In my judgement, what Pioli has done as a GM for the Chiefs is TOTALLY UNSATISFACTORY !!!

matthewschiefs
10-10-2012, 03:31 AM
Then how can you not see that the Chiefs are right back in the same disarray that they were when Pioli became the GM in 2009? Granted the roster has improved, but the coaching staff has gone though 2 HC's and 5 OC's and still no NFL-starting caliber QB.



People are focusing on the QB because they can easily see that is the most glaring problem with the Chiefs thus far this year & the obvious missing piece of the Chiefs puzzle. The Chiefs haven't had a poised and confident leader at QB who can throw the damn football accurately with any regularity through the first 4 and 3/4 games and it's killing them.


The QB is the missing piece of the puzzle but yet we are still back to 2009? So the Chiefs where a QB away in 2008? Am I missing something here?

Connie Jo
10-10-2012, 04:05 AM
So what? Many of us have even more justified reasons for being against him than you have justified reasons for being an advocate of him.



Neither did any of us that are opposed to him. The success of the Chiefs on the field & what he's done with his drafts, coaching decisions, player management etc. has told us all we needed to know.



Then how can you not see that the Chiefs are right back in the same disarray that they were when Pioli became the GM in 2009? Granted the roster has improved, but the coaching staff has gone though 2 HC's and 5 OC's and still no NFL-starting caliber QB.



People are focusing on the QB because they can easily see that is the most glaring problem with the Chiefs thus far this year & the obvious missing piece of the Chiefs puzzle. The Chiefs haven't had a poised and confident leader at QB who can throw the damn football accurately with any regularity through the first 4 and 3/4 games and it's killing them.




What he has been blamed for, that I have seen, is his inaccarute passes that have nearly gotten receivers killed, his inability to lead his team to victory against teams with winning records, his inability to read defenses, his continually staring down receivers, his inability to throw the deep ball, his lack of pocket presence -- all of which are the GOSPEL TRUTH !!

He's also lost his self confidence and the confidence of the rest of the team.



But, of course, it's quite natural for him to give access to those that have a flattering tongue. Does he do the same for those that don't flatter him and question what he does & tell him that they don't see it his way? Fat chance.



Ever hear of the saying "just because someone is p!ssing on your head, doesn't mean it's raining"?

Sorry, but he's done anything BUT make the Chiefs a legit contender. Right now, they are the laughing stock of the NFL.



Sorry, but you are starting to sound like you flunked biology class. It is physically impossible to tell if one is lying from their eyes. The eyes don't speak verbally, the mouth does.

Perhaps you should consider pulling Pioli's tongue out of his head next time you meet up with him. That way nobody will have to worry about whether he lies or tells the truth. :D



He hasn't even got this team competitive with the average teams in the NFL, thus far. If what he's done thus far is good enough for you, then it's quite obvious ( and the pic of you with Pioli clearly illustrates this ) that you are letting sentiment get in the way of sound judgement.

In my judgement, what Pioli has done as a GM for the Chiefs is TOTALLY UNSATISFACTORY !!!

:lol:

It's way past my bedtime, BUT...might I suggest rather than me type it all out, you simply Google how investigators, FBI, CIA, and others use the eyes to determine if someone is lying or not? hahaha FAIL!!! ;)

Many have passed blame on Cassel for interceptions that occurred because receivers didn't catch passes that were obviously catchable, but tipped into the hands of defenders. Cassel was blamed by many Sunday for the fumble on the goal line...even after the snapper stated publicly that he was the one who fumbled, not Cassel.

I could go on & on giving examples of blame put upon Cassel unfairly, but it's clear that your mind is closed to hold the opinions you do, just as mine is, hahaha.

I shall wait until the 5th season has concluded, assuming Pioli will remain our GM through the 5th season, before I begin to question his capabilities as a GM. I will agree he made mistakes not obtaining enough depth in 2011, of which he admitted to himself accepting accountability for that mistake. He did what he feasibly could to correct that this year in the draft & FA.

As far as Cassel...Pioli was not the only one who thought he would be capable to carry our team until it was feasible to draft a potential young franchise QB. Other teams sought Cassel also, after his successful season backing up an injured Brady. Many Chiefs fans also felt Cassel could get the job done.

There is no GM in the NFL who doesn't have busts from time to time, or players not meet their expectations. Most every aspect of the NFL is a gamble to some extent. You take the gamble you feel has the least risk, sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. You figure it out through trial, error & elimination. I believe the average is 30 games starting for an NFL QB to show signs of being a win or a loss. Also, just because a player fails on one team, doesn't mean he will on all. Environment, system, coaching...all plays a vital role in a players success or failure with a team. I believe Cassel has had many obstacles to overcome in KC since 2009, which stunted or hindered his play, many weren't in his control.

The fan base environment has been one of those obstacles. Please don't ask me to prove how fan bases can stunt or hinder a players success...or you'll be given links to sports psychology articles from Harvard, & other accredited sources which have done extensive studies on such. The data is overwhelming, and takes hours to read, of which I've done. I will be happy to provide you with the extensive data, however, hahaha.

Haley? Well, what do you suggest we do with Clark Hunt, fire him too? You see, Clark is very involved in the process & final decision making with hiring our HC's, & other important decisions. There is a reason Fisher & other HC candidates flew to Hunts home in Dallas for interviews. Besides, Clark was very thorough researching candidates to replace Peterson, he took his time, which was wise. However, by the time Pioli was hired, it was a bit too late, & most available HC's 2009 had been signed. They didn't have a large coaching pool to choose from.

The firing of Gailey was on Haley. Weis chose to leave due to not getting along with Haley, which was the turning point for Pioli wanting to fire Haley. Clark wasn't in favor of firing Haley at that time, over-rode Pioli. Clark was concerned there would be fan upset if Haley was fired shortly after winning the AFC West & Coach of the Year. Fans didn't have the inside knowledge of all the ongoing troubles with Haley, so they loved him.

Anyway, I'm off to get some much needed sleep. There's really no point in going back & forth, because neither will budge on their opinion, hahaha. ;)

Bike
10-10-2012, 10:12 AM
Might I suggest you do some research? Scott Pioli is, & has always been an adviser to Dimitroff, including draft advice. Dimitroff calls Pioli for advice, and follows it. IE: He contacted Pioli & Belichick both related to advice on drafting a WR for Atlanta. Belichick advised him not to trade up, to draft Baldwin. Pioli advised him to trade up for Julio Jones, & told Dimitroff that Jones was worthy of giving up to 5 picks for. Dimitroff took Pioli's advice, drafted Jones. Oh, by the way, Pioli drafted Baldwin the same year.

Furthermore, Belichick has been struggling drafting talent since Pioli left, which blows some anti Pioli Chiefs fans theory, that Belichick was the brains behind drafting talent in NE, rather not Pioli.

I'm often in the dark like many fans, so I spend countless hours digging for the truth/facts, doing research, prior to forming judgments. I don't watch TV sports talk shows, nor listen to radio sports, who are nothing more than journalist spectators speculating with individual opinions just like us fans. Yet, many fans take what they hear from sports talk show hosts as being gospel. Media stirs controversy for sake of ratings & profit, self agenda.
Here's some research that I find relevant:
Since 2009:
Atlanta under Dimitroff: 38-16, 2 playoff appearances (both losses)
Kansas City under Pioli: 22-31, 0 playoff appearances.

Bike
10-10-2012, 10:47 AM
[quote=Bike;268271]He went out and drafted himself a franchise QB - he didn't trade for a backup qb from somebody else. /QUOTE]

The difference with that and Pioli's situation is that Atlanta was fortunate enough to have a talented quarterback fall to them at #3.

Here's the 1st round QBs Pioli has passed on that he could have taken without trading up:

Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Tim Tebow

That's it!

The problem behind all of this is that Matt Cassel isn't that good. But we also haven't had a great opportunity to draft a good quarterback.
If your QB isn't there when it's your turn to draft, then you move up to get him. That's it. But Pioli wasn't about to admit his 66 million mistake and do this. We might had moved up, for example, to grab Christian Ponder rather than grab Baldwin at 26.

AkChief49
10-10-2012, 11:21 AM
Here's some research that I find relevant:
Since 2009:
Atlanta under Dimitroff: 38-16, 2 playoff appearances (both losses)
Kansas City under Pioli: 22-31, 0 playoff appearances.

we did have 1 playoff appearance for the 2010 season

Bike
10-10-2012, 11:23 AM
we did have 1 playoff appearance for the 2010 season
You correct.

brdempsey69
10-10-2012, 12:42 PM
The QB is the missing piece of the puzzle but yet we are still back to 2009? So the Chiefs where a QB away in 2008? Am I missing something here?

Yes, the part about "disarray" -- nobody can dispute that they look just as lost in 2012 as they did in 2009.

matthewschiefs
10-10-2012, 02:53 PM
Yes, the part about "disarray" -- nobody can dispute that they look just as lost in 2012 as they did in 2009.

My mistake. That's what happens when I am reading post at 2:30 am :lol:

I don't think this team is in as much disarray as they where when Pioli took over. There are not players lineing out just to get out. Things are not good enough and Pioli needs to be feeling the heat for his job. But I think to say things are just as bad as when Pioli took over is a bit of a reach IMO

brdempsey69
10-10-2012, 02:59 PM
My mistake. That's what happens when I am reading post at 2:30 am :lol:

I don't think this team is in as much disarray as they where when Pioli took over. There are not players lineing out just to get out. Things are not good enough and Pioli needs to be feeling the heat for his job. But I think to say things are just as bad as when Pioli took over is a bit of a reach IMO

One has to consider that they do have a better roster than they had in 2009, but yet, we are seeing similar results and the same type of disarray <--- that, to me, makes it even worse than 2009.

IslandKing77
10-10-2012, 04:14 PM
I can see how looking in the mirror you could justifiably make reference to a troll, but there is no way you will ever successfully make the name "Trollie Jo" stick to Connie. On the other hand you're proving, almost with every post reply, the many ways in which that term can be attributed to you.

:lol: :ninerssuck:

I know it's terribly inconvenient when someone comes on here and disagrees with you. It's so terrible you have to send multiple warnings to thier account while people who argue the same position as yours say much worse things without any kind of repercussion.

You can do whatever you want in terms of this forum, it really isn't a big deal to me. It's too bad however that nothing you do on here will make Pioli a better GM or Cassel a better QB.

OPLookn
10-10-2012, 04:39 PM
Sorry, but you are starting to sound like you flunked biology class. It is physically impossible to tell if one is lying from their eyes. The eyes don't speak verbally, the mouth does.

Perhaps you should consider pulling Pioli's tongue out of his head next time you meet up with him. That way nobody will have to worry about whether he lies or tells the truth. :D


Actually it's been proven that by looking at a persons eyes you can discern a few things about if that person is telling the truth or not.

People that are lying will tend to blink more. This one has been challenged and some people just by nature blink more than others. But on average if you're lying you blink more. I've seen it...and made the offending party pay in poker too.

When someone looks up and to the right they are accessing the creative side of their brain (aka making up a lie). When they're looking up and to the left they're accessing their memory and recalling an image of the memory. Both of these patterns have been found to be true and it's how the human brain accesses and deals with information.

To give you an example a study was done. I don't know how many people they did but lets say for simplicity sake it was 100 people. They hooked up 100 people to a lie detector and took them through a test. The lie detector got it right (that they were lying) around 80% of the time. Then they put them in front of an elite poker player and went through the same test. The poker players blew away the lie detector test and got it right (that they were lying) over 90% of the time.

ctchiefsfan
10-10-2012, 05:52 PM
:lol: :ninerssuck:

I know it's terribly inconvenient when someone comes on here and disagrees with you. It's so terrible you have to send multiple warnings to thier account while people who argue the same position as yours say much worse things without any kind of repercussion.

You can do whatever you want in terms of this forum, it really isn't a big deal to me. It's too bad however that nothing you do on here will make Pioli a better GM or Cassel a better QB.

IslandKing77.....

Look....You are a Chiefs fan and I respect that. I sometimes disagree with you but I always treat your posts with some modicum of respect. As Chiefs fans we should EXPECT that from each other. No matter how much we disagree on a particular issue.

You calling Connie Jo "Trollie Jo" was WAY OUT OF BOUNDS. She is at the very least every bit as much a Chiefs fan as you and therefore you should treat her with at least as much respect as every Chiefs fan should show another.

You OWE her an apology. Not for disagreeing with her but for suggesting that she is a troll.

Be a man and do what is right.

nigeriannightmare
10-10-2012, 06:01 PM
IslandKing77.....

Look....You are a Chiefs fan and I respect that. I sometimes disagree with you but I always treat your posts with some modicum of respect. As Chiefs fans we should EXPECT that from each other. No matter how much we disagree on a particular issue.

You calling Connie Jo "Trollie Jo" was WAY OUT OF BOUNDS. She is at the very least every bit as much a Chiefs fan as you and therefore you should treat her with at least as much respect as every Chiefs fan should show another.

You OWE her an apology. Not for disagreeing with her but for suggesting that she is a troll.

Be a man and do what is right.

YEAH! What he said. Calling someone as respectful as Connie a troll is simply ignorant.

matthewschiefs
10-10-2012, 06:39 PM
YEAH! What he said. Calling someone as respectful as Connie a troll is simply ignorant.

THIS

Connie Jo might not be right 100% in any of our eyes but she has the right to her opinion on things and for the most part she tells you what she bases her logic on. There's nothing trolling in that. Nothing at all. Just because someone doesn't share the common opinion doesn't mean that they are a troll .

chief31
10-10-2012, 06:40 PM
IslandKing77.....

Look....You are a Chiefs fan and I respect that. I sometimes disagree with you but I always treat your posts with some modicum of respect. As Chiefs fans we should EXPECT that from each other. No matter how much we disagree on a particular issue.

You calling Connie Jo "Trollie Jo" was WAY OUT OF BOUNDS. She is at the very least every bit as much a Chiefs fan as you and therefore you should treat her with at least as much respect as every Chiefs fan should show another.

You OWE her an apology. Not for disagreeing with her but for suggesting that she is a troll.

Be a man and do what is right.

Since I can only rep this comment once, I feel the need to reply with.it.

brdempsey69
10-10-2012, 06:55 PM
Actually it's been proven that by looking at a persons eyes you can discern a few things about if that person is telling the truth or not.

People that are lying will tend to blink more. This one has been challenged and some people just by nature blink more than others. But on average if you're lying you blink more. I've seen it...and made the offending party pay in poker too.

When someone looks up and to the right they are accessing the creative side of their brain (aka making up a lie). When they're looking up and to the left they're accessing their memory and recalling an image of the memory. Both of these patterns have been found to be true and it's how the human brain accesses and deals with information.

To give you an example a study was done. I don't know how many people they did but lets say for simplicity sake it was 100 people. They hooked up 100 people to a lie detector and took them through a test. The lie detector got it right (that they were lying) around 80% of the time. Then they put them in front of an elite poker player and went through the same test. The poker players blew away the lie detector test and got it right (that they were lying) over 90% of the time.

So what? In either case, it was not 100% foolproof. Whether anyone likes it or not, only God Almighty can get it right 100% of the time. Therefore, there is no way I can accept Connie Jo's statement as being substantial, when you just stated that there were failures in each case.

jap1
10-10-2012, 10:52 PM
Also was Pioli willing to take a chance on Jimmy Clausen with one of those two 2nd round picks in 2010, even though Clausen had played under the new Chiefs OC Weis in 2009 and had a great year?

Sorry to pick on one statement, but Jimmy Clausen ... seriously?

Dont you think that fact that Weis was the OC had anything to do with them NOT picking Clausen. Like maybe Weis knew he was seriously overrated, and is why he is now a backup QB.

jap1
10-10-2012, 11:04 PM
3. Todd Haley. This was a mistake there were some more proven football coaches out there Head coaches out there and Pioli went with a guy known for being a hot head who had zero head coaching background. This one was a mistake IMO the biggest that Pioli has made. This is the biggest black eye on Pioli that I see. Haleys hot headed actions made this team suffer. He was at times an embarrassment to both himself and the Chiefs franchise. This one there is no defending. Haley was as big of a mistake as people think.


Im going to be the guy that doesnt hate the Todd Haley hiring. Yes, wait for it.

It was what this team needed at the time.

Remember the first offseason he was here? How out of shape all the players were and all the conditioning he made them do? The angry, control freak that was Haley was needed to start the team on the path to being a contender again. Herm Edwards left us with a lazy, out of shape team that couldnt compete in the 4th quarter (if I recall, we lost quite a few games Herm's last season in the 4th quarter).

In retrospect, he maybe wasnt the best head coach and he may have set us back a year or two. Honestly, it sounds like the worst thing that happened to us was winning the division in 2010, because I wouldnt be surprised if he wasnt because of his issues with Weis.

Yes, I know, woulda, coulda, shoulda. But it is something I have thought for awhile and just wanted to put it out there.

Also, for the record, I still dont hold it against Pioli for getting TJax. I dont think he is a bust. No he wont get us 10 sacks a season or even get a bunch of tackles. But I have to wonder how good Hali, DJ, Houston, et al would be with someone who wasnt as good as TJax. We needed a 3-4 DE. Should we have traded down? Yes. Was anyone willing to trade with us? Probably not (remember this was pre-CBA/rookie salary scale). Also, when a GM takes over, they usually dont fire all the scouts until after the 1st draft. They keep the scouts that are in place because there isnt time to hire new people and get them up to speed on the college game. A lot of the scouts were let go between the draft and the season starting.

Chiefster
10-10-2012, 11:17 PM
:lol: :ninerssuck:

I know it's terribly inconvenient when someone comes on here and disagrees with you. It's so terrible you have to send multiple warnings to thier account while people who argue the same position as yours say much worse things without any kind of repercussion.

You can do whatever you want in terms of this forum, it really isn't a big deal to me. It's too bad however that nothing you do on here will make Pioli a better GM or Cassel a better QB.

Not one bit inconvenient to me.

Lord-Chiefy
10-11-2012, 12:23 AM
I'm incredably disappointed Connie is what being a chiefs fan is!!! Agree or disagree with her..whatever but never ever disrespect a fellow fan. !!!!

ctchiefsfan
10-11-2012, 12:30 AM
Are you getting the message IslandKing77? It's time to apologize to Connie Jo.

m0ef0e
10-11-2012, 01:11 PM
Whoa, this thread went way off course.

First of all, can we keep this thread from becoming yet another contest of who has the bigger "fan junk"? Seriously...

Second of all, Connie knows her stuff and bases her opinion off her interpretation of the facts (as she should). Her posts are for the most part well-written and thought-out.

Third, whether you're cheering or criticizing, anybody who's here to discuss the team, (especially when things haven't been going so well) is most likely a pretty dedicated fan. Doing one more loudly than the other at any particular time doesn't make one any more or less of one. It's been said a kazillion times, but for the sake of redundancy: We're all passionate about the Chiefs in our own ways.

Now back to the original point: It's not Pioli's differences from Peterson that concern me. It's the similarities. No GM is going to strike gold on every draft pick, no matter how good. Likewise, no matter how bad he may be, no GM will always strike-out on every pick. Matt Millen drafted Megatron, for instance.

I was excited to have Pioli in KC but watching him repeat the same mistakes at QB as his predecessor is certainly a justifiable cause for concern.

ctchiefsfan
10-11-2012, 01:42 PM
Sorry for the hijack mOefOe.....but some people deserve to get called a troll. Connie Jo ain't one of them. Anybody that spends any substantial time on Internet Bulletin Boards is bound to make a post that goes a little over the top from time to time. Lord knows I have done it often enough myself. But I have a very hard time having any respect for someone that won't admit they went too far. I just wish IslandKing77 would have the decency to withdraw his "troll" comment.

Back to your thread....

Pioli worries me as I gather he does you. As a team and a fan base we seem to be in chaos.

Our QB situation is at best a mess.

RC hasn't even been head coach for 16 games and a lot of people seem to want him gone.

No doubt A LOT of people want Pioli gone.

And now the whole "Why were they cheering" controversy.

Our beloved Chiefs seem to be in worse shape than I have seen them in all the years since I became a fan in the late '60s.

And yet I believe that purely from a talent point of view we are a team that is only a quarterback away from being a real contender.

The quarterback situation is hurting us and the chaos the quarterback situation is causing is KILLING us.

I think Pioli can be a great GM given another year or two, but I seriously wonder if he'll get the chance.

I may be wrong about Pioli, but I know for sure that if we dump Pioli then we will be starting from ground zero again. New GM, new coach, new QB, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme and with all that "new" we will wind up losing a lot of what is good about this team. I really don't want to see us start another 5-7 year rebuilding process now. I don't think we are far away from some serious success.

That said....*IF* Cowher were willing to come to KC in some capacity I would probably dance a jig in Times Square at high noon wearing nothing but Chiefs Paint.

m0ef0e
10-11-2012, 03:12 PM
Sorry for the hijack mOefOe.....but some people deserve to get called a troll. Connie Jo ain't one of them.

No problem. I agree that Connie definitely isn't a troll. She did come riding into this thread on a high horse, though. When I called Scott Pioli "overrated trash", I believe it was neither "foul" nor "vulgar". There were A LOT worse things to say about him swirling in my head and I have said MUCH WORSE in reference of others I felt were worthy of criticism in the past. Again, she's not a troll but things ALWAYS degrade like they did in this thread when people go all "holier than thou" on the internet. I'm not defending him but whether the dude apologizes or not is on him (between them and God so to speak). It ain't up to you and me.


Our beloved Chiefs seem to be in worse shape than I have seen them in all the years since I became a fan in the late '60s.

And yet I believe that purely from a talent point of view we are a team that is only a quarterback away from being a real contender.

The quarterback situation is hurting us and the chaos the quarterback situation is causing is KILLING us.

I agree on all counts and if Pioli gets the QB situation figured out it would go a long way toward giving me some confidence in his leadership as I really do like some of the talent he has drafted and feel that he HAS improved the roster overall. It's a shame all the good things he has done are being cancelled-out and overshadowed by one huge, glaring mistake that he keeps repeating.

#58ChiefsFan
10-11-2012, 03:13 PM
Sorry for the hijack mOefOe.....but some people deserve to get called a troll. Connie Jo ain't one of them. Anybody that spends any substantial time on Internet Bulletin Boards is bound to make a post that goes a little over the top from time to time. Lord knows I have done it often enough myself. But I have a very hard time having any respect for someone that won't admit they went too far. I just wish IslandKing77 would have the decency to withdraw his "troll" comment.

Back to your thread....

Pioli worries me as I gather he does you. As a team and a fan base we seem to be in chaos.

Our QB situation is at best a mess.

RC hasn't even been head coach for 16 games and a lot of people seem to want him gone.

No doubt A LOT of people want Pioli gone.

And now the whole "Why were they cheering" controversy.

Our beloved Chiefs seem to be in worse shape than I have seen them in all the years since I became a fan in the late '60s.

And yet I believe that purely from a talent point of view we are a team that is only a quarterback away from being a real contender.

The quarterback situation is hurting us and the chaos the quarterback situation is causing is KILLING us.

I think Pioli can be a great GM given another year or two, but I seriously wonder if he'll get the chance.

I may be wrong about Pioli, but I know for sure that if we dump Pioli then we will be starting from ground zero again. New GM, new coach, new QB, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme and with all that "new" we will wind up losing a lot of what is good about this team. I really don't want to see us start another 5-7 year rebuilding process now. I don't think we are far away from some serious success.

That said....*IF* Cowher were willing to come to KC in some capacity I would probably dance a jig in Times Square at high noon wearing nothing but Chiefs Paint.


I tend to agree with the not firing Pioli thought most of the time, he pisses me off sometimes but if he would just get the QB "situation" here ironed out he would become a good GM for us IMO. To be honest RAC may have 3 good years left in him at his age and was a short term fix at best. Given the circumstances with coaches and available QB talent it's not going to surprise me if CJ is correct in stating he was given the 3 yr extension.

Chiefster
10-12-2012, 06:41 AM
I'm incredably disappointed Connie is what being a chiefs fan is!!! Agree or disagree with her..whatever but never ever disrespect a fellow fan. !!!!

Do you mean to say that: "I'm incredibly disappointed." "Connie is what being a Chiefs fan is!!!"...

or

"I'm incredibly disappointed Connie is what being a Chiefs fan is." ???

Your sentence structure leaves one wondering. I only bring this up because these are the kinds of things misunderstandings in written form are made of. :smile

nigeriannightmare
10-12-2012, 08:30 AM
Question did pioli bring in Phil emery or was he here already seems like he's going to be a pretty good gm. The bears fans I hang out with ask why he wasn't our gm. I have no clue. They love him in Chicago.

m0ef0e
10-12-2012, 12:06 PM
Emery was here in 2008 and Pioli was hired in 2009 so it doesn't look like it.

nigeriannightmare
10-12-2012, 12:41 PM
Emery was here in 2008 and Pioli was hired in 2009 so it doesn't look like it.

So that could have been our mistake. MAybe 2 more years of carl peterson allowing phil to get on the job training and should have promoted him. Then we wouldnt be going the new england/ cleveland route. I really don't know much about him but bears fans seem to be impressed.

OPLookn
10-12-2012, 02:03 PM
So that could have been our mistake. MAybe 2 more years of carl peterson allowing phil to get on the job training and should have promoted him. Then we wouldnt be going the new england/ cleveland route. I really don't know much about him but bears fans seem to be impressed.

I wasn't sure of the timeline but the Emery 2008, Pioli 2009 seems about right. Just another fine example of not promoting within and letting talent slip out of KC. Sigh.

#58ChiefsFan
10-12-2012, 05:22 PM
I wasn't sure of the timeline but the Emery 2008, Pioli 2009 seems about right. Just another fine example of not promoting within and letting talent slip out of KC. Sigh.

I'm not talking about this post specifically or making an attempt to call this out. But in general terms Chiefs fans say this about promoting within and then get upset when we do at an alarming rate. Everything is a calculated gamble but it seems we always expect to win that chance with personnel.

OPLookn
10-15-2012, 10:30 AM
I'm not talking about this post specifically or making an attempt to call this out. But in general terms Chiefs fans say this about promoting within and then get upset when we do at an alarming rate. Everything is a calculated gamble but it seems we always expect to win that chance with personnel.

Other then Crennel when was the last time we promoted someone to a big position in the Chiefs? I understand you're not trying to call me out. But other then Crennel unless I'm missing something monsterous we haven't promoted from within in forever.

therick58
10-16-2012, 12:59 AM
I am new to posting and I came here because I am just so frustrated with my beloved chiefs. I have been a fan for over 40 years! A die hard fan. I have never booed anything my team has done ever. I have sat in cold weather when we were losing and continued to support my team through thick and thin. I moved to st. louis 16 years ago and I have had nfl tkt and season tkts the entire time. I never thought this would happen but I am fed up! I don't know who the culprit is...the hunt's, the gm's, coaches or a combination of all of them. I think it would be interesting if all fans would collectively boycot the games until real change happens. I'm thinking it would get their attention....who's with me!