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View Full Version : Just How Bad the Offense and Quarterback Play Has Been



Ryfo18
10-15-2012, 12:02 PM
There's a lot of blame being thrown around for the struggles of this team. It really all stems from a terrible offense, led by some atrocious quarterback play. I did some digging this morning into the first 6 games, and here is what I found.


The Chiefs Offense has 21 Turnovers in 6 games, and the opposition has scored 74 points off of these turnovers. That is 40% of the points the Chiefs have given up this year. These turnovers fall on the hands of the entire offense (tipped passes, fumbles, bad INTs)
The Chiefs offense has scored no touchdowns in the last two games.
The Chiefs offense has scored a first half touchdown in two games (ATL and Charles 31-yard run vs SD).
Aside from Jamaal Charles touchdown runs of 31 and 91 yards, the only offensive touchdowns since week 1 have come when the Chiefs are down by 3 or more scores.


This offense is terrible and constantly puts the defense in bad positions with a league high 21 turnovers. All of the rostered quarterbacks on this team are league backups (at best). The quarterback position not been addressed for far too long. We've had different coaches, different offensive personnel. The one constant has always been crappy quarterbacks.

Eydugstr
10-15-2012, 12:41 PM
The scary part is that we switched QB's and the only difference I saw was that the ball was being thrown a foot lower.

Unimaginative playcalling, running on 3rd & long, throwing into triple coverage, screen plays taking way too long to develop...

Don't see how Crennel, Daboll & co. can dig their way out of a 1-5 start.

brdempsey69
10-15-2012, 12:54 PM
Don't forget that the overall blocking up front hasn't exactly been stellar since Willie Roaf, Will Shields, and Jason Dunn left this team.

My point is, if the Chiefs draft a QB with their #1 pick, then making sure that he has a 1st -rate O-Line in front of him is priority #1. Unless, of course, people want another David Carr, or in the Chiefs case, Matt Cassel and enjoy watching said QB get beaten into a zombie.

Anyways, here's something to ease your pain -- the last quality QB that the Chiefs had:

Trent Green 2003-2005 highlights - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42tL7D509s)

Ryfo18
10-15-2012, 01:04 PM
Don't forget that the overall blocking up front hasn't exactly been stellar since Willie Roaf, Will Shields, and Jason Dunn left this team.

My point is, if the Chiefs draft a QB with their #1 pick, then making sure that he has a 1st -rate O-Line in front of him is priority #1. Unless, of course, people want another David Carr, or in the Chiefs case, Matt Cassel and enjoy watching said QB get beaten into a zombie.

Anyways, here's something to ease your pain -- the last quality QB that the Chiefs had:

Trent Green 2003-2005 highlights - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42tL7D509s)

Maybe so, but good quarterback play goes a long way to masking bad line play. Look at Rodgers, both Mannings, Brady. Greg Cosell was even raving about how Luck is already good enough to disguise the Colts inadequacies at the O-line.

"On Andrew Luck's ability to deal with pressure in a professional sense: "The Colts know that their offensive line is not very good individually. Many things have stood out to me about Luck, but what has stood out most of all is just what Sam Bradford is struggling with. Luck makes excellent throws from muddied pockets, plus, he has shown great pocket movement. Think about the area the size of a boxing ring, or even smaller. That's what pocket movement is -- the ability to move in an area that size while you're doing other things."

"1. You're containing your downfield focus -- you can never look to rush. 2. Keeping the position of the ball proper. 3. Keeping your feet under you, so you're on balance and ready to deliver the football. He has done those three things pretty much from Week 1. That has been incredibly impressive about Luck through his first four games."

brdempsey69
10-15-2012, 01:18 PM
Maybe so, but good quarterback play goes a long way to masking bad line play. Look at Rodgers, both Mannings, Brady. Greg Cosell was even raving about how Luck is already good enough to disguise the Colts inadequacies at the O-line.

"On Andrew Luck's ability to deal with pressure in a professional sense: "The Colts know that their offensive line is not very good individually. Many things have stood out to me about Luck, but what has stood out most of all is just what Sam Bradford is struggling with. Luck makes excellent throws from muddied pockets, plus, he has shown great pocket movement. Think about the area the size of a boxing ring, or even smaller. That's what pocket movement is -- the ability to move in an area that size while you're doing other things."

"1. You're containing your downfield focus -- you can never look to rush. 2. Keeping the position of the ball proper. 3. Keeping your feet under you, so you're on balance and ready to deliver the football. He has done those three things pretty much from Week 1. That has been incredibly impressive about Luck through his first four games."

That still doesn't take away from the fact that good O-Line play is needed for any QB to perform their best. I've seen what's happened to Brady, the Mannings, and Rodgers when their O-Lines have struggled ---countless times---they struggle and their teams lose. That's already happened to all of them this year.

You can rest assured that if Luck's O-Line improves in front of him, his performance will improve. That is a given.

Forget this "good quarterback play goes a long way to masking bad line play" BS. It doesn't work.

Hayvern
10-15-2012, 01:35 PM
Maybe so, but good quarterback play goes a long way to masking bad line play. Look at Rodgers, both Mannings, Brady. Greg Cosell was even raving about how Luck is already good enough to disguise the Colts inadequacies at the O-line.

"On Andrew Luck's ability to deal with pressure in a professional sense: "The Colts know that their offensive line is not very good individually. Many things have stood out to me about Luck, but what has stood out most of all is just what Sam Bradford is struggling with. Luck makes excellent throws from muddied pockets, plus, he has shown great pocket movement. Think about the area the size of a boxing ring, or even smaller. That's what pocket movement is -- the ability to move in an area that size while you're doing other things."

"1. You're containing your downfield focus -- you can never look to rush. 2. Keeping the position of the ball proper. 3. Keeping your feet under you, so you're on balance and ready to deliver the football. He has done those three things pretty much from Week 1. That has been incredibly impressive about Luck through his first four games."

We did not exactly have the stellar receiving core then either. Yeah, we did have the Former Chiefs PLayer Who Shall Remain Nameless, but other than that, we really did not have any huge names, and yet, the QB play at the time was so much better than what we see today.

matthewschiefs
10-15-2012, 02:09 PM
That still doesn't take away from the fact that good O-Line play is needed for any QB to perform their best. I've seen what's happened to Brady, the Mannings, and Rodgers when their O-Lines have struggled ---countless times---they struggle and their teams lose. That's already happened to all of them this year.

You can rest assured that if Luck's O-Line improves in front of him, his performance will improve. That is a given.

Forget this "good quarterback play goes a long way to masking bad line play" BS. It doesn't work.


THIS THIS AND MORE THIS

The qbs don't make the o line play bad. The qbs don't make our wrs allow passes that hit them in the hands over and over again to go to the other team. Our qbs have not been great but NO ONE has. But all some can do is bash the qb SMH

Lord-Chiefy
10-15-2012, 07:59 PM
Man I miss Trent. Thanks.

jap1
10-15-2012, 11:53 PM
That still doesn't take away from the fact that good O-Line play is needed for any QB to perform their best. I've seen what's happened to Brady, the Mannings, and Rodgers when their O-Lines have struggled ---countless times---they struggle and their teams lose. That's already happened to all of them this year.

You can rest assured that if Luck's O-Line improves in front of him, his performance will improve. That is a given.

Forget this "good quarterback play goes a long way to masking bad line play" BS. It doesn't work.

There is some effect that a QB will have on the OL. On many teams (not sure if our team does this) the QB is responsible for changing the pass blocking scheme at the line of scrimmage if he reads a blitz. On some teams the QB is the one who makes those adjustments. On other teams it is the Center. Sometimes it is a combination of the two.

I wonder how much the poor pass blocking on blitzes has to do with Lilja playing center (which he has never done in a game before this year). I dont remember us being this poor in pass blocking the first couple of weeks.

brdempsey69
10-16-2012, 01:03 AM
There is some effect that a QB will have on the OL. On many teams (not sure if our team does this) the QB is responsible for changing the pass blocking scheme at the line of scrimmage if he reads a blitz. On some teams the QB is the one who makes those adjustments. On other teams it is the Center. Sometimes it is a combination of the two.


I'm well aware of all this. Notwithstanding, my analysis still stands. People have been stating over and over about Cassel holding the ball too long, but if you watch the video of Trent Green, he held the ball just as long in a lot of cases, if not longer. The big difference is the pass-protection that Green was given compared to what Cassel has been given since his arrival in KC in 2009.

I will grant you that Green had better pocket awareness and could throw the football better than Cassel, but he would've taken the same beating that Cassel has taken if he had to play behind the O-Lines that Cassel has had to play with in KC -- which, quite frankly, is way inferior to the O-Line that Green played behind from 2002 -- 2005.



I wonder how much the poor pass blocking on blitzes has to do with Lilja playing center (which he has never done in a game before this year). I dont remember us being this poor in pass blocking the first couple of weeks.

First couple of weeks? Go back and watch the Buffalo game. Their Defensive Front 7 obliterated the Chiefs O-Line in that game before Hudson was hurt in the NO game. I saw the same thing in person in the San Diego game.

jap1
10-16-2012, 01:36 AM
I'm well aware of all this. Notwithstanding, my analysis still stands. People have been stating over and over about Cassel holding the ball too long, but if you watch the video of Trent Green, he held the ball just as long in a lot of cases, if not longer. The big difference is the pass-protection that Green was given compared to what Cassel has been given since his arrival in KC in 2009.

I will grant you that Green had better pocket awareness and could throw the football better than Cassel, but he would've taken the same beating that Cassel has taken if he had to play behind the O-Lines that Cassel has had to play with in KC -- which, quite frankly, is way inferior to the O-Line that Green played behind from 2002 -- 2005.



First couple of weeks? Go back and watch the Buffalo game. Their Defensive Front 7 obliterated the Chiefs O-Line in that game before Hudson was hurt in the NO game. I saw the same thing in person in the San Diego game.

I dont disagree that the OL is poor, and I am not trying to blame Cassel. I was just bringing up another possible point of view. In retrospect, the OL has not fared too well against the pass most of the season, but it seems to have gotten worse as the season has progressed. Although, that may be attributed to the defenses recognizing a weakness and exploiting it more.