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alexim58
11-19-2012, 02:26 PM
Jason La Canfora analize the situation on many teams .. among them .. KC Chiefs.. what're your toughts?

Kansas City Chiefs: It's all gone horribly wrong there, there are no signs of life and I cannot imagine a way that Scott Pioli and Romeo Crennel are back next season. Owner Clark Hunt looks for hands-on people, as he is not around the team on a daily basis (which could lead to a GM like Bill Polian being the next man there). This team thought it had playoff potential and now it's jostling for the first overall pick. The fan revolt is palpable there, forcing changes.

Possible replacement: The Chiefs need to start over with a new quarterback and I can't help but wonder if Mike Sherman, who has worked closely with them and who has won at this level, gets a chance there. This hasn't been a big-paying job and I have a hard time projecting "A-list" guys there.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21055325/monday-observations-as-december-nears-which-teams-coaches-are-on-the-line

nigeriannightmare
11-19-2012, 03:17 PM
I will seriously flip the f out in a bad way if its mike Sherman, he had a decent team in Green Bay and didn't get it done. Hell to the no.

Eydugstr
11-19-2012, 08:57 PM
I'd have to agree with nigeriannightmare. The only thing I remember about Mike Sherman was when he was coach of the Packers and got into an arguement with Warren Sapp about cheap hit on an unsuspecting player. Not siding with Warren Sapp, it was a cheapshot, but I want a coach that has his players ready 100% of the time. Proactive instead of reactive.

kylebigmac09
11-19-2012, 09:53 PM
Jason La Canfora analize the situation on many teams .. among them .. KC Chiefs.. what're your toughts?

Kansas City Chiefs: It's all gone horribly wrong there, there are no signs of life and I cannot imagine a way that Scott Pioli and Romeo Crennel are back next season. Owner Clark Hunt looks for hands-on people, as he is not around the team on a daily basis (which could lead to a GM like Bill Polian being the next man there). This team thought it had playoff potential and now it's jostling for the first overall pick. The fan revolt is palpable there, forcing changes.

Possible replacement: The Chiefs need to start over with a new quarterback and I can't help but wonder if Mike Sherman, who has worked closely with them and who has won at this level, gets a chance there. This hasn't been a big-paying job and I have a hard time projecting "A-list" guys there.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21055325/monday-observations-as-december-nears-which-teams-coaches-are-on-the-line
Wasn't Pioli the hottest GM prospect in the game when he was hired? Obviously he didn't get it done, but why aren't we A-List worthy?

MissingTBone
11-19-2012, 11:00 PM
I guess it sounds like our coaches don't get paid well so were basically screwed?? I'm def down with Polian, but not Sherman for anything more than a coordinator.

jap1
11-20-2012, 03:35 AM
Wasn't Pioli the hottest GM prospect in the game when he was hired? Obviously he didn't get it done, but why aren't we A-List worthy?

KC is a small media market. A lot of big name coaches want to go somewhere where they will get a lot of notoriety and press coverage. Also, historically speaking, we haven't had coaches that had big contracts. Granted, we also haven't had a coach that was experienced and proven to be WORTHY of a big contract. Not sure if this is because we don't offer enough $$ or because we haven't tried for a big name coach in the past.

chiefnut
11-20-2012, 12:19 PM
although money does figure in i think the opportunity for success is the #1 factor. they look at talent available now, mgmt backing, team turn around wow factor, all coaches believe they can take a team to the super bowl given enuf time and talent. the CHIEFS have that wow factor and mgmt backing so they are the quintessential A list team. canfora can bite me!!!

reded
11-20-2012, 01:25 PM
How good were Marty or Dick Vermeils contracts compared to the rest of the league?

nigeriannightmare
11-20-2012, 01:33 PM
Heard Marty isn't even remotely interested as a GM, but he is interested in coaching maybe to groom his son?

Seek
11-20-2012, 01:55 PM
Heard Marty isn't even remotely interested as a GM, but he is interested in coaching maybe to groom his son?

Heard Marty has no intentions of returning the to the NFL.

nigeriannightmare
11-20-2012, 02:35 PM
Heard Marty has no intentions of returning the to the NFL.

I was driving home from the kc airport and they were talking about it, this is this past Friday and they were commentating that he said he would only come back as a coach they offered no source so it may be pure speculation. I have a funny feeling Romeo isn't going anywhere.

reded
11-20-2012, 02:52 PM
I was driving home from the kc airport and they were talking about it, this is this past Friday and they were commentating that he said he would only come back as a coach they offered no source so it may be pure speculation. I have a funny feeling Romeo isn't going anywhere.

Dude, your last sentence just ruined my day.

Seek
11-20-2012, 03:16 PM
I was driving home from the kc airport and they were talking about it, this is this past Friday and they were commentating that he said he would only come back as a coach they offered no source so it may be pure speculation. I have a funny feeling Romeo isn't going anywhere.

From what I have heard is that Clark Hunt is very visibly upset watching the games in his suite. This is from Trent Green on 810 last night. Saying that on the field before they game is all political and then when the game starts he is not approachable as he is very much into the game. He has watched a few games with him in the suite and it is very obvious he more into this team that he appears in public and it bothers him that he does not have his hands more involved in the team developements.

That being said, I think Clark is trying to do what is right based on decisions that were made from his judements and are waiting things out until he clearly has a direction of where he is going and I think the suggestion of Marty to Clark is to wait the season out and see if Crennel can turn it around, becuase it was that same week that the rumors of Marty being involved when Crennel stepped down as DC, cut Routt and promoted Gibbs.

Firing Pioli right now may not be the best choice unless he already has Plan B signed and ready to go. Waiting until the season is over may be the smart choice.

I don't know, but I would have to think Crennel is definately Gone. Pioli maybe not because on paper almost everyone thought this team was better excluding the QB and that may give Pioli a little rope.

AkChief49
11-20-2012, 05:02 PM
From what I have heard is that Clark Hunt is very visibly upset watching the games in his suite. This is from Trent Green on 810 last night. Saying that on the field before they game is all political and then when the game starts he is not approachable as he is very much into the game. He has watched a few games with him in the suite and it is very obvious he more into this team that he appears in public and it bothers him that he does not have his hands more involved in the team developements.

That being said, I think Clark is trying to do what is right based on decisions that were made from his judements and are waiting things out until he clearly has a direction of where he is going and I think the suggestion of Marty to Clark is to wait the season out and see if Crennel can turn it around, becuase it was that same week that the rumors of Marty being involved when Crennel stepped down as DC, cut Routt and promoted Gibbs.

Firing Pioli right now may not be the best choice unless he already has Plan B signed and ready to go. Waiting until the season is over may be the smart choice.

I don't know, but I would have to think Crennel is definately Gone. Pioli maybe not because on paper almost everyone thought this team was better excluding the QB and that may give Pioli a little rope.
The QB is on him also. It would seem the the rope he gets is just slack..... for a clean break.

Coach
11-20-2012, 05:43 PM
The challenge if you keep Pioli is finding a good coach. No high profile coach is going to want to join a team that may be firing its GM within 1 year. New GM's usually hire their own coaches.

Seek
11-20-2012, 06:24 PM
The challenge if you keep Pioli is finding a good coach. No high profile coach is going to want to join a team that may be firing its GM within 1 year. New GM's usually hire their own coaches.

I am actually Numb to this whole situation. It is donkey week a team I hate the most, and I could care less.. Even when the Chiefs got their first lead last week, I just laughed.

I really want Crennel fired, but want to give Pioli more time to work through his mistakes and learn and be the guy everyone thought he was when he was hired. He may end up being a very good GM still, but he has to be humbled a little first and I hope he can correc it with the Chiefs, but really could care less if he does get fired. I have not been all that thrilled with his draft choices but how much of that is them being a bust or poor coaching.

I am just numb from everything. I am tired of trying to find a positive only to have the negative over shadow it.

swochief
11-20-2012, 08:22 PM
I guess it sounds like our coaches don't get paid well so were basically screwed?? I'm def down with Polian, but not Sherman for anything more than a coordinator.


I'd be good w/ Polian as GM , ok w/ Sherman only as OC.

swochief
11-20-2012, 08:24 PM
I'd be good w/ Polian , ok w/ Sherman as OC only.

nigeriannightmare
11-20-2012, 08:55 PM
I am actually Numb to this whole situation. It is donkey week a team I hate the most, and I could care less.. Even when the Chiefs got their first lead last week, I just laughed.

I really want Crennel fired, but want to give Pioli more time to work through his mistakes and learn and be the guy everyone thought he was when he was hired. He may end up being a very good GM still, but he has to be humbled a little first and I hope he can correc it with the Chiefs, but really could care less if he does get fired. I have not been all that thrilled with his draft choices but how much of that is them being a bust or poor coaching.

I am just numb from everything. I am tired of trying to find a positive only to have the negative over shadow it.


I just can't remember a season so hyped up for us. The dick vermeil years maybe but I mean everyone, or most people had us at minimum a wild card with the possibility of a couple playoff wins. This season hurts more than the 2 and 14 season with Herm. That team flat out wasn't good. This team has talent. Numb is a way more appropriate word than disappointing.

texaschief
11-21-2012, 01:39 AM
The whole atmosphere at Arrowhead seems to have turned toxic since Pioli was hired. It's a complete culture issue. Think about all the hush-hush BS that's gone on at Arrowhead since he has arrived. It would be one thing if these methods garnered results, but this team was one that was suppose to be on the rise, but it's floundering in ineptitude.

You could chalk last year up to injuries, but there is absolutely NO excuse to be had for this year. Just as he ignored the most important position on a 3-4 defense (NT) until this past draft, Pioli has mis-evaluated and ignored the most important position on the entire TEAM since he signed Cassel.

Changing defensive schemes without addressing the MOST important position for 5 years and being unable to evaluate Cassel as anything other than a backup QB, are inexcusable sins (in my opinion) for a GM to commit if he expects to keep his job long-term.

If you go back to when Pioli was first hired, I've never actually been a fan and argued against his hiring before it was made. Products of the New England tree have withered and died when separated from the roots of Bill Belichik. Pioli was given (and took credit) for a lot of things that may not have been his doing.

I've tried to sit back and give the guy a chance, but this season should have killed his position at Arrowhead. How could this product NOT be placed at the feet of Pioli? He hired a HORRIBLE first head coach that set the tone for his tenure here. This was suppose to be the year that everything came together. Look at the talent on the field. There's no reason to think it should ever be playing this poorly. It's NOT the talent. Show me an offensive coordinator that wouldn't salivate over the offensive fire-power this team possesses.

Could it be the coach? Sure. But the last one was fired with more wins AND more injuries to deal with. Both coaches hired by the current GM. 5 seasons and only 1 season has there been a good, tried and true offensive coordinator on this team. Guess which season that was! I'll give you a hint... it resulted in a home playoff game.

In an offense-driven league, Pioli has ignored both the offensive coordinator position and the QB position and filled them with generic products instead of name-brand. Again, in the NFL, this is an inexcusable offense. I'm less concerned about the overall record as I am of some of the most egregious acts of negligence this franchise has ever seen.

chiefnut
11-21-2012, 12:30 PM
look it is so simple, our GM has not done a good job, nor has our coaching, you have to dump them and start over. i can not believe Clark does not know this. he is just waiting to find the best time to find replacements.

raiderhater79
11-21-2012, 12:48 PM
Heard Marty has no intentions of returning the to the NFL.


at his age, I don't blame him

Bike
11-21-2012, 03:57 PM
Why hasn't Clark addressed the fans? He needs to acknowledge that the Pioli hire was a mistake - and move on.

nigeriannightmare
11-21-2012, 09:33 PM
Why hasn't Clark addressed the fans? He needs to acknowledge that the Pioli hire was a mistake - and move on.

That's what I don't get. Okay he's doing his "homework" or whatever but the disaster that has been this season should be addressed. We are the worst team in the NFL. Say anything Clark.

MissingTBone
11-21-2012, 11:51 PM
Why hasn't Clark addressed the fans? He needs to acknowledge that the Pioli hire was a mistake - and move on.

I dont care if he addresses the fans, and don't feel he "owes us (as fans) an apology. It's clear that so far things are not going as anyone planned. Let's get this top 3 pick and rectify the situation after the season is over.

Hayvern
11-22-2012, 08:51 AM
I am actually Numb to this whole situation. It is donkey week a team I hate the most, and I could care less.. Even when the Chiefs got their first lead last week, I just laughed.

I really want Crennel fired, but want to give Pioli more time to work through his mistakes and learn and be the guy everyone thought he was when he was hired. He may end up being a very good GM still, but he has to be humbled a little first and I hope he can correc it with the Chiefs, but really could care less if he does get fired. I have not been all that thrilled with his draft choices but how much of that is them being a bust or poor coaching.

I am just numb from everything. I am tired of trying to find a positive only to have the negative over shadow it.

This is how I was even at the start of the season. I could not even be excited at the beginning of the season because I never really felt that we addressed a lot of the major problems we had. Yes, we did address the offensive line and I think at the beginning of the season we had a decent offensive line, but we still had a failing QB and our draft picks were suspect.

I am even more apathetic now. I do not even want to watch this team right now. I had a friend call me on Wednesday and wanted to talk about the Chiefs and I did not even want to talk about this team. First time in 15 years where I have felt this way.

Waiting for the offseason and if we do not mix it up a lot this offseason, I don't know, I might just plan other things on my weekends next year.

ctchiefsfan
11-22-2012, 12:22 PM
Why hasn't Clark addressed the fans? He needs to acknowledge that the Pioli hire was a mistake - and move on.

Words ain't going to cut it. Hunt needs to DO something! That said, I can certainly understand his waiting until the end of the season when there will be a better selection to choose from.

Dick Richards
11-26-2012, 02:47 AM
Good article! I like Chip Kelly!



How Oregon Coach Chip Kelly Can Spark 'Moneyball' Revolution In NFL
Friday, November 2, 2012 3:10 pmWritten by: Tim Livingston
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For those who know Oregon coach Chip Kelly's mannerisms, his trademark smirk was in full effect. This was during the Ducks' first real "test" this season, a home game against Arizona, and they saw their opening drive end when the Wildcats stuffed quarterback Marcus Mariota for a 4-yard loss on fourth and 1.

After the tackle, Arizona linebackers rejoiced with passionate fist pumps and jumped on top of each other like frogs mating. The Wildcats were getting the ball in field-goal range (Oregon's 35-yard line) with a chance to take an early lead on the No. 3-ranked Ducks, but more importantly, they had just won their first battle against Kelly's virtually unstoppable "Quack Attack" offense. Yet, as he paced the Oregon sideline, Kelly reeked of smugness.

Kelly had set the tone, and his demeanor made clear that he was unperturbed by the outcome of the previous play. Kelly goes for it on fourth down consistently and confidently. Oregon's players, on both sides of the ball, comprehend Kelly's strategy. The Ducks didn't convert, but they didn't care, because they knew the following equations would hold true:

Oregon's offense > Arizona's defense
Chip Kelly > Every other coach in college football
Oregon's next fourth-and-short came late in the second quarter when the Ducks faced a fourth-and-2 on their own 34-yard line. Kelly went for it again, and this time Kenjon Barner ran for six yards and a first down. Oregon went on to a 16-play scoring drive that ate up all but 28 seconds of the first half and totally deflated Arizona's defense. Oregon went on to score 36 points in the second half en route to a 49-0 win.



Those fourth down calls epitomize Kelly's aggressiveness but what the average football fan doesn't realize is that Chip's play-calls (the fourth down tries, fake punts, two-point conversions, etc.) are almost always the correct mathematical decision. Like Paul DePodesta and Billy Beane did in baseball, Kelly's genius comes from exploiting arithmetic that other coaches are too nave to acknowledge.

Six years ago, Chip Kelly was the offensive coordinator at the University of New Hampshire. In January, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers fired coach Raheem Morris and targeted Kelly as his replacement. Although Chip turned down the Bucs' offer because he had "unfinished business" at Oregon (read: national championship), Kelly's ascent through the coaching ranks has been nothing short of extraordinary. From an assistant at a Division I-AA school to turning down an NFL head coaching job in six years. Not bad, Chip. Not bad.



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It's a shame Kelly didn't take his talents to Tampa because he would have single-handedly changed the way the NFL game is played by this point in the season. He'd turn the focus away from concussions and make people realize that football is a chess match, a game of strategy, and when played correctly, a beautiful thing.



Here's an example of how the NFL works. The Miami Dolphins were 1-15 in 2007 and started off the '08 season 0-2. In Week 3, they instituted the Wildcat offense, finished 11-3, and made the playoffs. Pundits argued that the Wildcat was a gimmick, that defenses would adjust, that it would never last, and they were partially right. Defenses did adjust, yet somehow, five years later, more than fifty percent of NFL teams have a version of the Wildcat in their playbook.

Why does this matter? Because when something catches on in the NFL, everyone jumps on the bandwagon. At first they refute it, call it a fluke, and then eventually, when a team wins 11 out of 14 games after losing 17 of its previous 18, they realize that there might be something to the newfound strategy and hurry to insert into their playbooks. The NFL is a cat and mouse league.

This is how and why Chip Kelly will modernize the game in the same way that Billy Beane's triumphs showed baseball executives that getting on base is more important than batting average. Soon enough Kelly will take over an NFL team. (A national championship is possible this season, but those Bama boys are a different breed and that Saban fella is a pretty incredible coach in his own right.) Whenever Kelly does enter the league, he'll play the game aggressively, with "aggressively" meaning in a mathematically logical fashion. By the end of the season every coach will be going for it on fourth down, attempting fake punts, fake field goals, two-point conversions, and they'll likely do all of this oblivious to the fact that there's astounding mathematical evidence supporting the decisions they're making.

They'll just see Chip Kelly's team lighting up the scoreboard and follow suit because well, 90 percent of NFL coaches are followers.



The fact that the league has ignored such rudimentary math for so long and that the average team's miscalculations account for approximately one loss per year (we'll get to that later) is mind-boggling. How has there not been a revolt? How have millions of fans watched silently as NFL coaches, refusing to stray from orthodoxy, continually punt away games (pun very much intended)? How has there not been a boycott?

These men are at the height of their profession and haven't utilized information that's been available for more than 10 years. It's the same exact thing that happened in baseball, but in this case, Bill James comes in the form of astrophysicist Chuck Bower and his partner Frank Frigo.

Frigo and Bower invented the Zeus computer program, which takes fourth-down situations such as the ones Oregon had against Arizona, and and runs them to conclusion as many as a million times to determine the optimum play-call. The system incorporates the teams' characteristics, ball position, yards to first down, clock, and timeouts. Needless to say, these guys are smart.

Complex algorithms aside, the outcomes are incredibly simple. Zeus tells us that teams should almost always go for it on fourth and short, attempt more onsides kicks, go for two-point conversions, in other words, do all the things that Chip Kelly does on a routine basis.

But the most important thing to take away from Zeus' findings is that the math isn't even close. The numbers are so overwhelming that teams that kick field goals on fourth and short at the 20-yard line aren't just wrong, they're so wrong it's ludicrous. For the Texas Hold Em players out there, kicking a field goal in that situation is like folding pocket aces pre-flop against a smaller pocket pair. You're conceding when you're the overwhelming favorite. Even if the guy hits his set and wins the hand, you don't have any regrets. You know you made the right call and that you'll win the hand a majority of the time. NFL teams kick the field goal and "take the points" virtually every time when in reality a field goal kicker (like a punter) should only be used in times of desperation. When it's fourth and 15, for example.



Note: Zeus breaks down its calculations into GWC or "Game Winning Chance." By going for the field goal in the previous example -- fourth and 1 at the 20-yard line -- a team decreases its chances of winning by X percent. Since there are so few offensive plays in the average game (usually around 70-90 depending on the team) every punt or field goal attempt chosen incorrectly can have a profound effect on the outcome of the game.

Here's an example of how the abstract concept of "momentum" carries far more weight with NFL authorities than concrete mathematics.

It's the first round of the 2009 AFC playoffs and the Chargers have a 7-0 lead against the Jets. The Chargers have fourth and inches at their own 47-yard line with a little more than nine minutes left in the 2nd quarter.

What does Chargers coach Norv Turner decide to do? He decides to punt of course! And the Chargers, as you may remember, had one of the best offenses in the league that season, not to mention that Philip Rivers, or any other quarterback for that matter, can convert a 6-inch sneak 99 percent of the time.

From what you just read, you're fully aware this was a preposterous decision, but Phil Simms, who was announcing the game, pontificated for several minutes that Turner made the right call because the Chargers couldn't risk losing momentum. He wouldn't stop talking about the importance of momentum and how the Chargers would instantly lose it, whatever "it" may be, had they gone for the first down and not converted. No mention of the momentum that would have been created had the Chargers converted the fourth down, which they would have done easily.

avguste
12-06-2012, 11:30 PM
Chip kelly would be a great choice.

How about Norv Turner?