QBs and Super Bowl Contenders [Archive] - Kansas City Chiefs Forums

texaschief

12-02-2012, 06:10 PM

Coming into the season, there was little doubt as to who the Super Bowl contenders were. The stalwarts like:

Patriots-Brady
Steelers-Roethlesberger
Ravens-Flacco
Falcons-Ryan
Texans-Shaub
Packers-Rogers
Giants-Manning

As horrible as the Chiefs offense has been this season, they still have a defense ranked #15 in the league. Pair that defense with an offense that can control the clock and keep them fresh, and Chiefs would have a top 10 or even top 5 defense. The offensive line ranks in the top 5. The Chiefs have the 4th best rushing attack. They have 2 first round picks at WR along with Breaston, McCluster, and a great pass catching TE in Moeaki. This team as an above average special teams unit as well.

The Chiefs, as a full unit, have fewer holes on their team than the perennial Super Bowl contenders. So, what are we missing? We can sit here and blame coaching until we're blue in the face, but the point of the matter is that this team won't be able to do anything until they address the most important position on the team. No coaching staff will have a chance at success as long as Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn are under center.

If you don't believe me, go watch the Steelers being led by Charlie Batch. They're AWFUL. They look a lot like Chiefs, in fact.

matthewschiefs

12-02-2012, 06:50 PM

MyManHali

12-02-2012, 06:55 PM

Lewis_Chiefs

12-02-2012, 07:20 PM

We don't even need an elite QB just a good top 10/12 QB for example someone with the ability of a Joe Flacco.
Cassel or Quinn are not the answer.

brdempsey69

12-02-2012, 07:27 PM

I'll agree the Chiefs need better at the QB position & if they have a chance to draft Geno Smith, then they should take him.

I'll also agree that Cassel is done and Stanzi isn't the future.

However, Quinn must stay <---- that's right, you read that correctly.

Remember Rich Gannon. He came to the Chiefs in '95 and was somewhat undistinguished ( just like Quinn is now ) & stayed that way for 2 and 1/2 seasons. Who would have thought going into the '97 season that by the end of that same season, he'd blossom into a quality QB that could lead a team to post-season success? The Chiefs brass didn't -- they signed Grbac and made him the starter and he did start the first 10 games in '97 before getting hurt in the Pitt game & Gannon had to take over for him.

Gannon's next 3 starts resulted in a 24-12 loss to the Jags, a 24-23 win over the Donks, and a 19-14 win over the Seahawks & he didn't really establish himself as "the guy" at QB for the Chiefs.

BUT, then it happened, starting when they hosted the 49ers entering the last 4 games of the '97 season & they crushed the Niners 44-9 in that game & went to win all 4 of those final four games, outscoring their opponents 128-29 over that stretch. Gannon's great play at QB was the major reason for it & why he should have been the starter going into the playoffs.

Am I suggesting that Quinn is the next Rich Gannon? No, I'm not suggesting that. What I'm saying is that Quinn is still somewhat of an unknown commodity just like Gannon was for 44 games with the Chiefs prior to those final 4 games of the '97 season, which is where Gannon distinguished himself.

I'm also suggesting, regarding Cassel, Quinn, and Stanzi, that if the Chiefs keep any of the 3 around for 2013, Quinn should be at the top of the list. Besides, they have to have at least ONE seasoned QB on their roster, regardless of what direction they go.

Ryfo18

12-02-2012, 07:42 PM

I do not agree with you that we are close. We aren't. We severely lack depth in just about every position, we don't have a second WR or CB. We don't have a RB to compliment Jamaal Charles, and obviously we dont have a quarterback.

I don't think we'll ever know what we have in Baldwin until we get a good QB though. And let's be honest, most teams don't have "depth" across the board. They're just well coached to make up for their deficiencies. I think of a team like the Steelers who are missing Polamalu and what seems like their whole offensive line every week and even Batch this week. They just find ways to win.

texaschief

12-02-2012, 08:07 PM

Really??????????????????????????????????????

Tell me what head coach of the contenders can't explain why one of the if not the best RB in the NFL went a full game with 5 carries. Show me anther team that has the commentators litteraly laughing at just how horrible the play calling is. SHOW ME 1. Or as I have been asking for WEEKS SHOW ME 1 darn adjustment this team has made.

Again, I'm not saying the coaching isn't part of the problem. What I AM saying is that we are going to continue going through head coaches until the QB position is addressed. Having a QB who can manage a game makes things a hell of a lot easier on a head coach than one like Matt Cassel who invents new ways of turning the ball over each week. The offensive coordinator was scared to death to throw the ball down the field all season because the QBs who play for this team make poor decisions or just can't make the throws or reads correctly.

You point to the Steelers today They are NOT in the same boat. The Steelers are on there 3RD STRING QB they don't even have there backup that's different from what the Chiefs have.

That's the whole point. Cassel WAS/IS a backup QB. He's not a starting caliber QB. So, if we START a #2, his backup would be a #3. We are in EXACTLY the same boat... except, we've been on the boat MUCH longer. Just because Pioli is an idiot and pays Cassel starter money, doesn't make him starter quality.

This team has suffered this year from bad QB play but they have also suffered from Bad WR O line Defense all year. They have suffered from bad play across the board QB is more then any spot but poor play is still across the board.

I disagree. The O-line pass protects well. Not only does Cassel give up on plays too quickly, but he's a statue in the pocket. Despite the poor QB play, only 14 teams have given up fewer sacks. In fact, they have given up 15 fewer sacks this season than the Green Bay Packers. The Bears, Ravens, and 49ers also rank below the Chiefs O-line in sacks. The Eagles, Panthers, Cowboys, and Redskins have all given up more sacks than the Chiefs despite having extremely mobile QBs. They also block for the 4th best rushing attack in the league. Please, tell me more about how poor the Chiefs O-line is despite starting two rookies and displacing Ryan Lilja...

Nobody in their right mind would say the Chiefs WRs are a bad group. 2 first round picks who can make spectacular catches? Ya, they're horrible. It's tough for WRs to get into rhythm when they play on a team that's in the bottom of the league in attempts and have a QB who's worst in the league in efficiency... but you go ahead and blame the O-line and WRs... that makes sense.

The defense statistically ranks 15th despite the fact that the offense ranks dead last in scoring and can't stay on the field to give them a break. Half the defense is comprised of first round picks... and that doesn't include Flowers, Arenas or Houston.

And last but not least this no coaching staff has a chance under Cassel and QUinn UMMMMM Todd Haley? He won an AFC west title with Cassel. He lost Charles week 2 last season but still had more wins then 2 with Cassel. Todd Haley came in took a 2-14 team over and won 4 games with Matt Cassel as the QB. Todd Haley wasn't even a great head coach but he shows that this team can be much better with even Cassel at QB.

Would you say the 2010 season (with the league's easiest schedule and Charlie Weiss as the OC) was the exception or the rule?

Even after a win some people have to go to extremes to hate the QBs. People need to get over the qb the constant post bashing the QBs are OLD good grief

I both agree and disagree with you on some things.

Yes, you need a good qb to be a contender, there is no doubt about it. And we are not going to get it done with Cassel or Quinn.

I do not agree with you that we are close. We aren't. We severely lack depth in just about every position, we don't have a second WR or CB. We don't have a RB to compliment Jamaal Charles, and obviously we dont have a quarterback.

We have all the WR talent a team could possibly want. Peyton Hillis... the leading rusher 2 years ago is NOT a good compliment to Charles? C'mon.

CB combos are overrated. You don't need two #1 CBs on a team. As far as contenders are concerned, only the Steelers, 49ers, Broncos, and Bears have given up less through the air than the Chiefs. A #2 CB is NOT the problem. Is it a secondary issue that could be addressed? Sure. But this team isn't going down in flames because our opponent's #2 WR is killing us every week.

This league is built around 1 position. If you don't have a good player at that position, you generally don't have a good team. It's really not that difficult to understand. The losing record shouldn't be hung at Matt Cassel's door, but his performance during these past seasons is ABSOLUTELY something he should be held accountable for. He has shown that he cannot be a starting QB to be depended on week in a week out. Quinn didn't get drafted in the first round to sit on the bench. He has had quite a few seasons to prove he belongs at the #1 spot. He couldn't keep his spot in Cleveland, couldn't beat out Tebow, and now has a shot on a 2-10 team AFTER he couldn't supplant Cassel BEFORE the season was lost. He IS NOT the answer.

matthewschiefs

12-02-2012, 08:18 PM

We have all the WR talent a team could possibly want.

CB combos are overrated. You don't need two #1 CBs on a team. As far as contenders are concerned, only the Steelers, 49ers, Broncos, and Bears have given up more through the air than the Chiefs. A #2 CB is NOT the problem. Is it a secondary issue that could be addressed? Sure. But this team isn't going down in flames because our opponent's #2 WR is killing us every week.

This league is built around 1 position. If you don't have a good player at that position, you generally don't have a good team. It's really not that difficult to understand. The losing record shouldn't be hung at Matt Cassel's door, but his performance during these past seasons is ABSOLUTELY something he should be held accountable for. He has shown that he cannot be a starting QB to be depended on week in a week out. Quinn didn't get drafted in the first round to sit on the bench. He has had quite a few seasons to prove he belongs at the #1 spot. He couldn't keep his spot in Cleveland, couldn't beat out Tebow, and now has a shot on a 2-10 team AFTER he couldn't supplant Cassel BEFORE the season was lost. He IS NOT the answer.

I never said the WR group was bad I just said at times they have made bad plays here and there. you and others want to ignore those and point at the QB Same with the O line. At times they have played poorly but you and others don't want to talk about that.

And AHHHHH the 2010 excuse that you and the other QB haters want to keep talking about. So then Peyton manning and drew brees both need to be out of football. They both lost to teams that even Matt Cassel could beat and hes horrible right? Sorry in the NFL EVERY WIN COUNTS. You don't just show up and win. That's why you are called haters you make excuses for the good and throw out the bad from every one else and point at our QBS and say see there the problem. It's not that simple END OF STORY. Even on a day after we win and the QB plays pretty good heres a thread talking about our horrible QBS. You can't say good job today keep it up. You just have to hate on them. They will never be good enough for you. Just admit that. No matter what they do they will never please you.

Oh and how is it that even with the horrible QB play the Steelers managed to win that game? Your example kind of backfired on you there.

matthewschiefs

12-02-2012, 08:20 PM

texaschief

12-02-2012, 08:45 PM

I never said the WR group was bad I just said at times they have made bad plays here and there. you and others want to ignore those and point at the QB Same with the O line. At times they have played poorly but you and others don't want to talk about that.

And AHHHHH the 2010 excuse that you and the other QB haters want to keep talking about. So then Peyton manning and drew brees both need to be out of football. They both lost to teams that even Matt Cassel could beat and hes horrible right? Sorry in the NFL EVERY WIN COUNTS. You don't just show up and win. That's why you are called haters you make excuses for the good and throw out the bad from every one else and point at our QBS and say see there the problem. It's not that simple END OF STORY. Even on a day after we win and the QB plays pretty good heres a thread talking about our horrible QBS. You can't say good job today keep it up. You just have to hate on them. They will never be good enough for you. Just admit that. No matter what they do they will never please you.

Oh and how is it that even with the horrible QB play the Steelers managed to win that game? Your example kind of backfired on you there.

Not really. The team still looked horrible. The Broncos had a winning season with Tebow at the helm last year... why would they even think about upgrading??

It's especially important to talk about how bad of a QB these two are, on days like today. You seem to get too high on the highs. Today, just like the 2010 season, is the exception, not the rule. Getting excited about how your team performed on an exceptionally emotional day, against a horrible team, playing at home, is nothing more than getting excited about pyrite... and, (just like 2010 when the Chiefs had to finally play a good team) if you think Quinn/Cassel is the answer at the QB position, you're going to get a quick reality check.

Can teams win with poor QBs? Absolutely. Again, reference Denver last season. Will teams consistently contend for Super Bowls with poor QBs? Absolutely not.

matthewschiefs

12-02-2012, 08:56 PM

It's especially important to talk about how bad of a QB these two are, on days like today. You seem to get too high on the highs. Today, just like the 2010 season, is the exception, not the rule. Getting excited about how your team performed on an exceptionally emotional day, against a horrible team, playing at home, is nothing more than getting excited about pyrite... and, (just like 2010 when the Chiefs had to finally play a good team) if you think Quinn/Cassel is the answer at the QB position, you're going to get a quick reality check.

Can teams win with poor QBs? Absolutely. Again, reference Denver last season. Will teams consistently contend for Super Bowls with poor QBs? Absolutely not.

Silly me I guess even when the QB plays pretty darn good like today we are supose to bash him. It's not "getting to high" to say that a boy keep it up. That's All I'm doing. If Quinn does play like he did the rest of the season then I think we should let him fight for the job next year. Not give him the job let him fight for it. That's a big IF. That's all I have said. You chose to start yet anther thread talking about how bad our QBs are instead of saying keep it up on a day where he threw for over 200 yards and 2 tds. What's there to hate on today? Just enjoy the win. Instead you makes excuses for why we win just to hate the QB.

But hey lets go with your outlook and reach for something to hate on. BOWE SHOULD BE CUT. There was a play where he just didn't run on the rout as the commentator pointed out during the game. SO he sucks we need to get rid of him right? We can't get "to high off the win" right we have to find something to hate on. See how stupid that sounds.

But don't let me get in the way of your hateing carry on :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck:

texaschief

12-02-2012, 09:49 PM

Silly me I guess even when the QB plays pretty darn good like today we are supose to bash him. It's not "getting to high" to say that a boy keep it up. That's All I'm doing. If Quinn does play like he did the rest of the season then I think we should let him fight for the job next year. Not give him the job let him fight for it. That's a big IF. That's all I have said. You chose to start yet anther thread talking about how bad our QBs are instead of saying keep it up on a day where he threw for over 200 yards and 2 tds. What's there to hate on today? Just enjoy the win. Instead you makes excuses for why we win just to hate the QB.

But hey lets go with your outlook and reach for something to hate on. BOWE SHOULD BE CUT. There was a play where he just didn't run on the rout as the commentator pointed out during the game. SO he sucks we need to get rid of him right? We can't get "to high off the win" right we have to find something to hate on. See how stupid that sounds.

But don't let me get in the way of your hateing carry on :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck:

No. You need to stay grounded instead of pretending that Quinn is something he isn't. Matt Cassel's last year in New England was a good year. Pioli got caught chasing pyrite with Cassel. Now, you want to do the same thing with Quinn. It's absurd! Ryan Leaf even had a game with 2 TDs, no INTs and almost 300 yds passing... again, exception or the rule?

If we could cherry-pick performances for our QBs to have, they'd all be Pro Bowlers, but unfortunately, we can't do that. We have to look at these guys' track records, past performances, and then try to project what they will be in the future. What about Brady Quinn's past makes you think he could be the QB for this franchise to build around for the foreseeable future? Your argument would lead us to believe that we should disregard everything he has done previous to his performance today against a 3-win team and judge him strictly on this performance alone.

The only way Quinn deserves ANOTHER shot at being the starting QB for this team is if we did exactly that and ignore his entire history before today. Let's not forget that Quinn had an opportunity to win the job this season and failed to beat out a QB who would only muster a 66 QBR.

Really? THAT'S the guy you want to go to bat for?

Ryfo18

12-02-2012, 09:53 PM

matthewschiefs

12-02-2012, 10:17 PM

No. You need to stay grounded instead of pretending that Quinn is something he isn't. Matt Cassel's last year in New England was a good year. Pioli got caught chasing pyrite with Cassel. Now, you want to do the same thing with Quinn. It's absurd! Ryan Leaf even had a game with 2 TDs, no INTs and almost 300 yds passing... again, exception or the rule?

If we could cherry-pick performances for our QBs to have, they'd all be Pro Bowlers, but unfortunately, we can't do that. We have to look at these guys' track records, past performances, and then try to project what they will be in the future. What about Brady Quinn's past makes you think he could be the QB for this franchise to build around for the foreseeable future? Your argument would lead us to believe that we should disregard everything he has done previous to his performance today against a 3-win team and judge him strictly on this performance alone.

The only way Quinn deserves ANOTHER shot at being the starting QB for this team is if we did exactly that and ignore his entire history before today. Let's not forget that Quinn had an opportunity to win the job this season and failed to beat out a QB who would only muster a 66 QBR.

Really? THAT'S the guy you want to go to bat for?

I said IF he plays like he did today the rest of the season he should get a shot at the job along with someone else how is that not being grounded? IF is the big word there. I have my doubts that it will happen but I don't say that it's not possible because it is no matter how unlikely it is theres a 1% chance he could do it there's still a chance.

Brady Quinn doesn't even have 1 full year of starts in his career he has never got a full chance to become a real starter in his career. Today was his 15th start. It was a darn good one. If he keeps doing that and beats out a draft pick or free agent whatever that also is brought in then I'm fine with him at QB. That's all IF he finishes the season like he did today. You speak like he has years of failing he hasn't even had a full season of starts. Your hate for him blinds you to that fact.

Brady Quinn today passed for 200 yards and threw for 2tds didn't turn the ball over once. All I said was that a boy keep it up. Sorry I don't hate on our qbs just to hate on our QBs. You keep hating I will enjoy the victory and for 1 day tip my cap to Brady on a job well done. Brady did nothing to get hated on today all he did was lead the Chiefs to a win in a pretty bad spot. But keep hating its all you and others can do when it comes to our qbs. Make your excuses for the win I will keep telling you that all you're doing is hating that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Unless you can tell me why today I should hate on Quinn what 4 incomplete passes all day? I guess he really stunk up arrowhead today. I don't see what the problem is with just saying good job keep it up after a win. I guess silly old me will just get to pumped up by doing that.

matthewschiefs

12-02-2012, 10:20 PM

Good post. This is a great example of 2010, when KC played easy team after easy team and Cassel fooled us all. It's the Panthers, ya'all.

The panthers seemed to be able to beat RGIII you no one of the Qbs that we were so stupid for not drafting but keep making up excuse for the wins to hate the QBS. :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck:

brdempsey69

12-02-2012, 10:30 PM

I said IF he plays like he did today the rest of the season he should get a shot at the job along with someone else how is that not being grounded? IF is the big word there. I have my doubts that it will happen but I don't say that it's not possible because it is no matter how unlikely it is theres a 1% chance he could do it there's still a chance.

Brady Quinn doesn't even have 1 full year of starts in his career he has never got a full chance to become a real starter in his career. Today was his 15th start. It was a darn good one. If he keeps doing that and beats out a draft pick or free agent whatever that also is brought in then I'm fine with him at QB. That's all IF he finishes the season like he did today. You speak like he has years of failing he hasn't even had a full season of starts. Your hate for him blinds you to that fact.

Brady Quinn today passed for 200 yards and threw for 2tds didn't turn the ball over once. All I said was that a boy keep it up. Sorry I don't hate on our qbs just to hate on our QBs. You keep hating I will enjoy the victory and for 1 day tip my cap to Brady on a job well done. Brady did nothing to get hated on today all he did was lead the Chiefs to a win in a pretty bad spot. But keep hating its all you and others can do when it comes to our qbs. Make your excuses for the win I will keep telling you that all you're doing is hating that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Unless you can tell me why today I should hate on Quinn what 4 incomplete passes all day? I guess he really stunk up arrowhead today. I don't see what the problem is with just saying good job keep it up after a win. I guess silly old me will just get to pumped up by doing that.

That is what I was saying in my earlier post and using Rich Gannon as an example. The key words are UNKNOWN COMMODITY ( and any QB they draft is going to also be an unknown commodity ). And Quinn wasn't brought in to beat out Cassel or even challenge him for the starting QB position, he was brought in as a BACKUP to Cassel.

Quinn hadn't seen the field since 2009 & two years on the sidelines doesn't make any QB sharp. Like you touched on, the question remains, can he make progress and improve? We'll see.

texaschief

12-02-2012, 11:15 PM

matthewschiefs

12-02-2012, 11:23 PM

nigeriannightmare

12-02-2012, 11:51 PM

I know one thing about quinn... This is what his 16th start. That's hardly enough to judge. He hasn't played much he has shown improvement. Wasn't Troy aikman 1 and 15 his rookie year. 16 starts is not enough to judge. He has been given crappy situation after crappy situation. No one has shown any confidence in him whatsoever. Is he the answer? I doubt it. But I'd rather draft te'o then reach for a qb that no one has higher than 15 on their boards. And save our qb draft for 2014.

16 starts folks that's all he has. In Denver he had no chance. He has barely played comin into this year of course he wasn't gonna beat cassel. 19 for 23 and 210 is pretty damn good. Lets see how he finishes before we judge.

Ryfo18

12-02-2012, 11:54 PM

The panthers seemed to be able to beat RGIII you no one of the Qbs that we were so stupid for not drafting but keep making up excuse for the wins to hate the QBS. :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck: :ninerssuck:

The reason I'm not going to argue with you is because you have a tendency to simplify everything to one random game that supports your view. Cam Newton is a pretty damn good QB too. My view is more looking back on the 2010 season and saying, "Wow, they were able to beat some bad teams, but did nothing against good ones." And yes, Quinn played well, but I'm not going to foolishly say this is the magic bullet solution after 1 good game just because he plays for my favorite team.

I'm fine with Quinn staying to compete. I think it would be a great idea for all the reasons brdempsey69 said. I would really like to see him perform like that against a team like the Broncos though. Doesn't change my opinion that this team should use its draft position to draft the best QB.

matthewschiefs

12-03-2012, 12:24 AM

The reason I'm not going to argue with you is because you have a tendency to simplify everything to one random game that supports your view.

This is laughable coming from someone who takes an article that just has blind stats does not include some pretty BIG factors as the gospel just to say Cassel sucks. Anyone who dares to think that lack of talent around a guy in one of the years stated the fact that one of the years included in the article this team almost broke the record for dropped passes might be a factor in some of those stats being as bad as they are just has a "love fest for Cassel" But yet when I talk about Geno Smith only being 6-5 all of a sudden you want to talk about the poor defense around him and all that. You want to include all the factors you refuse to listen to with Cassel for your guy. Your double standard is clear.

My whole point is that you make it out to be that these teams are so bad that any joe can come in and beat them so the Qbs we have get no credit for them from you. That's not how it works in the NFL. It's hard to win 1 game. You just have this mindset Our QBS get all the blame when we lose no credit when we will. You have a clear biased against our QBS. I freely state our QB play has been poor but when they do well I don't still bash them. I don't make excuses when they win. And When other talent Fs up I have no problem saying they Fed up. You ignore the other talents Fing things up to say see how bad our QBs are. Bowe gets outplayed by our backup TE all we here is how it's the QB's fault. All I ask is for you to either be fair or just admit you hate our QBS be honest about it. I don't have to agree with it but I can respect it.

Cam Newton is a pretty damn good QB too. My view is more looking back on the 2010 season and saying, "Wow, they were able to beat some bad teams, but did nothing against good ones." And yes, Quinn played well, but I'm not going to foolishly say this is the magic bullet solution after 1 good game just because he plays for my favorite team.

And those bad teams beat some good teams. Including the then defending super bowl champs Twice. Every week in the NFL some bad team beats a good team almost. Doesn't mean those wins don't count or are any different then any other win.

I'm fine with Quinn staying to compete. I think it would be a great idea for all the reasons brdempsey69 said. I would really like to see him perform like that against a team like the Broncos though. Doesn't change my opinion that this team should use its draft position to draft the best QB.

And he will get his chance against Denver if he doesn't get hurt. And I have said that I want him to have a chance IF he keeps up what he did today. A chance not hand him the job. I want anther QB from somewhere. I don't see a QB in the draft that's a "can't miss" guy. So if we go elsewhere I'm fine with that. I don't really care where anther QB comes from just as long as there is one there to compete with Brady for the job IF he does what he did today going forward.

brdempsey69

12-03-2012, 12:29 AM

So, let's give Quinn the absolute BEST possible outcome over the next 4 weeks, he ends up with stats no worse than what he did today, and finishes the season with 5 straight wins...

You guys are good with Quinn going forward knowing that he put up those numbers in games that don't matter, against teams with losing records, and a final game against a Broncos team who will probably be playing their 2nd and 3rd string players?

Your entire offseason approach at the QB position will be determined by these last 5 games under those conditions and you think that's a good sample... is that right?

Just making sure I have your argument correct.

The problem is, you are wanting an instant superstar at QB & you aren't going to get him. Every QB that the Chiefs have ever drafted since the AFL-NFL re-aligned in 1970 has been a BUST. The successful QB's in KC have always come via FA or trade, including Len Dawson.

I'm not saying they shouldn't draft a QB next April, in fact, I was one of the first (if not the first) to suggest that they double-dip at the QB position.

Kansas City Chiefs Forums - View Single Post - Qb of the future? (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showpost.php?p=270543&postcount=13)

Never before have they taken 2 QB's in the draft that I'm aware of since the AFL-NFL re-alignment in 1970. That will NOT guarantee an instant superstar at the QB position, however. Or even a quality QB for that matter. Therefore, Quinn must stay.

Ryfo18

12-03-2012, 12:32 AM

This is laughable coming from someone who takes an article that just has blind stats does not include some pretty BIG factors as the gospel just to say Cassel sucks. Anyone who dares to think that lack of talent around a guy in one of the years stated the fact that one of the years included in the article this team almost broke the record for dropped passes might be a factor in some of those stats being as bad as they are just has a "love fest for Cassel" But yet when I talk about Geno Smith only being 6-5 all of a sudden you want to talk about the poor defense around him and all that. You want to include all the factors you refuse to listen to with Cassel for your guy. Your double standard is clear.

I don't know what your point is here...Cassel does suck.

matthewschiefs

12-03-2012, 12:45 AM

I don't know what your point is here...Cassel does suck.

My point is that you're only willing to point out Cassel's mistakes while ignoring the mistakes by others. He's the guy you don't like but for the guy you like you suddenly want to look at the mistakes by others and include them as to why the team didn't do as well. You have the standards for Cassel in which if the team loses he's to blame and then there's the standard for the guy you like in which you're willing to say they lost as a TEAM.

I will give an example. For this team you have excused the Piss poor defense at times because of all the turnovers. Even though there are a number of Turnovers that are not Cassel's and a number more where Cassel did his job the WR didn't catch the ball and the defender ended up with it so you excuse the bad defense we saw at times this year for those losses. In his teams 5 losses in 3 of them Geno Smith turned the ball over. So that excuses the defense for there poor play? I have a feeling that you would disagree with that.

This is a TEAM game. You say I simplify things when that's what you're doing. Pointing to 1 persons mistake the QBs as to why we have been so bad this year and ignoring the others is just not a fair way to look at things. All you can mostly do is whine and moan about the QB. And hey they have given you reason to for the most part this year. And I have done the same thing on a number of occasions but ignoring the mistakes by others and pointing the finger at 1 guy is just not fair. But it's what you do. Even on a day where the QB played damn good here we are in yet anther thread talking about these horrible qbs. WHY? do we really need ANTHER look at how bad our QBS are thread? IT'S FAR PAST OLD.

texaschief

12-03-2012, 02:25 PM

The problem is, you are wanting an instant superstar at QB & you aren't going to get him. Every QB that the Chiefs have ever drafted since the AFL-NFL re-aligned in 1970 has been a BUST. The successful QB's in KC have always come via FA or trade, including Len Dawson.

I'm not saying they shouldn't draft a QB next April, in fact, I was one of the first (if not the first) to suggest that they double-dip at the QB position.

Kansas City Chiefs Forums - View Single Post - Qb of the future? (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showpost.php?p=270543&postcount=13)

Never before have they taken 2 QB's in the draft that I'm aware of since the AFL-NFL re-alignment in 1970. That will NOT guarantee an instant superstar at the QB position, however. Or even a quality QB for that matter. Therefore, Quinn must stay.

Nope. All I'm asking for is that the Chiefs... somehow... someway... find a way to bring in an average QB. A superstar is not necessary to elevate this team to playoff caliber. That was the point of showing you where each of the other aspects of this team rank compared to the perennial Super Bowl contenders. An average QB would put this team in the playoffs as it stands now. A top 10 QB would put this team in a position to compete for super bowls year in and year out.

brdempsey69

12-03-2012, 05:22 PM

Nope. All I'm asking for is that the Chiefs... somehow... someway... find a way to bring in an average QB. A superstar is not necessary to elevate this team to playoff caliber. That was the point of showing you where each of the other aspects of this team rank compared to the perennial Super Bowl contenders. An average QB would put this team in the playoffs as it stands now. A top 10 QB would put this team in a position to compete for super bowls year in and year out.

Which goes back to what I said about Quinn being an unknown commodity. Rich Gannon was 31 before he became a known commodity. Cassel is a known commodity. Quinn is not.

And regarding what I highlighted in bold, you had mentioned the O-Line being 14th in the league in sacks given up, but also said they had attempted the fewest passes. Given that they have attempted the fewest passes, shouldn't their ranking be in the top 5 instead of 14th? Given those circumstances, ranking 14th is totally unsatisfactory. And don't blame all that on Cassel, that's just not the case. There were a multitude of occasions where the O-Line literally got ran over. They have played much better the last 2 weeks, however.

Eydugstr

12-03-2012, 06:50 PM

What I AM saying is that we are going to continue going through head coaches until the QB position is addressed.

I'd disagree with that. That's like the tail wagging the dog.

Management & coaching set the tone for everything. If a top flite QB comes to KC, it's because a management/coaching staff enticed him here. Even if you draft him there's no guarantee that he'll play for you (John Elway, Indy...Eli Manning, San Diego).

I'd agree with Brdempsey on Quinn. He's the only one that's proven himself in any way shape or form this year. And that is not saying much. On Stanzi, I'd disagree. Why not let him play a couple of games, or at least a couple of halves to know for sure if he's a bust or not? If anything we might be saving Quinn from possible injury. If Stanzi shows no improvement, draft two qb's or draft one qb and make a play for Alex Smith.

I'd disagree with Texaschief about our O-line. We still get dominated by AFC west opponents' D lines. Allen and Stephenson are doing really well, and Winston's proved he's a stand up guy on many levels, but the situation at center needs to be fixed. We might not find a monster center at the #2 or #3 round of the draft but it's much better than having no backup at all. We got lucky with Lilja being able to do the job he did.

matthewschiefs

12-03-2012, 07:19 PM

Which goes back to what I said about Quinn being an unknown commodity. Rich Gannon was 31 before he became a known commodity. Cassel is a known commodity. Quinn is not.

And regarding what I highlighted in bold, you had mentioned the O-Line being 14th in the league in sacks given up, but also said they had attempted the fewest passes. Given that they have attempted the fewest passes, shouldn't their ranking be in the top 5 instead of 14th? Given those circumstances, ranking 14th is totally unsatisfactory. And don't blame all that on Cassel, that's just not the case. There were a multitude of occasions where the O-Line literally got ran over. They have played much better the last 2 weeks, however.

THIS THIS AND MORE THIS

Many want to look at just numbers and stats to say this guy sucks or look at how good this guy is. It's need that easy you have to look at all the factors that go into it.

The O line has had there moments where they have just looked awful. Injuries have hurt the good news is the rookies are getting some real game time to learn the NFL game. That's going to be a postive going forward.

We have had bad play across the board this year. when that happens you have to point to the head coach and his staff. Romeo did a great job yesterday I am shocked that he did such a good job. But that hasn't been what we have gotten all year.

MyManHali

12-03-2012, 07:53 PM

My point is that you're only willing to point out Cassel's mistakes while ignoring the mistakes by others. He's the guy you don't like but for the guy you like you suddenly want to look at the mistakes by others and include them as to why the team didn't do as well. You have the standards for Cassel in which if the team loses he's to blame and then there's the standard for the guy you like in which you're willing to say they lost as a TEAM.

I will give an example. For this team you have excused the Piss poor defense at times because of all the turnovers. Even though there are a number of Turnovers that are not Cassel's and a number more where Cassel did his job the WR didn't catch the ball and the defender ended up with it so you excuse the bad defense we saw at times this year for those losses. In his teams 5 losses in 3 of them Geno Smith turned the ball over. So that excuses the defense for there poor play? I have a feeling that you would disagree with that.

This is a TEAM game. You say I simplify things when that's what you're doing. Pointing to 1 persons mistake the QBs as to why we have been so bad this year and ignoring the others is just not a fair way to look at things. All you can mostly do is whine and moan about the QB. And hey they have given you reason to for the most part this year. And I have done the same thing on a number of occasions but ignoring the mistakes by others and pointing the finger at 1 guy is just not fair. But it's what you do. Even on a day where the QB played damn good here we are in yet anther thread talking about these horrible qbs. WHY? do we really need ANTHER look at how bad our QBS are thread? IT'S FAR PAST OLD.

Yeah well when the offense continually puts 6 points on the board I put the blame on Cassel. He gets the lengthy contract and the big money.

He should take the responsbility, at the end of the day it's his job to manage the game, move the chains, and put points on the board. The only time he did that this year was in the first half against atlanta.

It's up to the qb to offset mistakes made by his teammates, that is why he gets the most money, if the starting qb can't do that then he shouldn't be playing.

Lord-Chiefy

12-03-2012, 07:53 PM

I can't stand Quinn even in college.. him sitting in the green room draft say getting passed over and over..Lmao.

brdempsey69

12-03-2012, 09:22 PM

Yeah well when the offense continually puts 6 points on the board I put the blame on Cassel. He gets the lengthy contract and the big money.

He should take the responsbility, at the end of the day it's his job to manage the game, move the chains, and put points on the board. The only time he did that this year was in the first half against atlanta.

It's up to the qb to offset mistakes made by his teammates, that is why he gets the most money, if the starting qb can't do that then he shouldn't be playing.

It depends on the QB & just exactly what type of mistakes he has to overcome. Matt Schaub couldn't offset his teams mistakes that were being made when they hosted GB and Aaron Rodgers ripped the Texans defense with 6 TD passes. Yet, he's still a pretty good QB.

On the other hand, if you were referring to the way the Chiefs have folded in games this year with Cassel at the helm whenever something went wrong, that is true. Unfortunately, he couldn't offset the mistakes, and often he did add to them. The biggest problem was Pioli handing him that big contract before he ever set foot on the field. It should have been a more modest 3 or 4 year deal and some legit competition should have been brought in during the last 3 or 4 years, but wasn't.

Like everybody else, I'd love for the Chiefs to have Joe Montana in his prime. It amazes me that some retards over at kansascity.com say that Elway was the best QB ever. Elway was not in Montana's class, ever. Nobody was.

MyManHali

12-03-2012, 10:31 PM

It depends on the QB & just exactly what type of mistakes he has to overcome. Matt Schaub couldn't offset his teams mistakes that were being made when they hosted GB and Aaron Rodgers ripped the Texans defense with 6 TD passes. Yet, he's still a pretty good QB.

On the other hand, if you were referring to the way the Chiefs have folded in games this year with Cassel at the helm whenever something went wrong, that is true. Unfortunately, he couldn't offset the mistakes, and often he did add to them. The biggest problem was Pioli handing him that big contract before he ever set foot on the field. It should have been a more modest 3 or 4 year deal and some legit competition should have been brought in during the last 3 or 4 years, but wasn't.

Like everybody else, I'd love for the Chiefs to have Joe Montana in his prime. It amazes me that some retards over at kansascity.com say that Elway was the best QB ever. Elway was not in Montana's class, ever. Nobody was.

Let's not single out any one performance here. Cassel is 0-19 when teams score more than 24 points.

I will repeat that, Cassel is 0-19 when opposing teams score more than 24 points. Never in his life has he put the team on his back and won a game. Not once, and this guy at one time made more than Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. He was a fraud who was finally exposed this year. Thank god, and now we can all move on (Well atleast some of us).

matthewschiefs

12-04-2012, 12:13 AM

Let's not single out any one performance here. Cassel is 0-19 when teams score more than 24 points.

I will repeat that, Cassel is 0-19 when opposing teams score more than 24 points. Never in his life has he put the team on his back and won a game. Not once, and this guy at one time made more than Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. He was a fraud who was finally exposed this year. Thank god, and now we can all move on (Well atleast some of us).

So instead of putting that on the defense you put the defense not doing there job on Cassel?

of those 19 loses there was DEC 20 2009 when the Chiefs with Cassel at QB put up 34 points wouldn't you say that should win a game? October 2010 the chiefs put up 31 points and lost that's Cassel's fault? Nov 2010 against the Broncos 29 points and still lost. Once again you excuse the failures of others to hate the QB.

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 12:23 AM

So instead of putting that on the defense you put the defense not doing there job on Cassel?

of those 19 loses there was DEC 20 2009 when the Chiefs with Cassel at QB put up 34 points wouldn't you say that should win a game? October 2010 the chiefs put up 31 points and lost that's Cassel's fault? Nov 2010 against the Broncos 29 points and still lost. Once again you excuse the failures of others to hate the QB.

I put the lack of offensive production solely on Cassel's shoulders. Not once has he ever took it upon himself to put up big numbers and win games when the defense is struggling. It hasn't happened. Other quarterbacks seem to do it, why can't he?

We are 3-20 when we throw more than we run. Awful numbers against winning teams, not just record but stats. Dink and dunk passer, no ability to come from behind and win. Please, enough of the Cassel talk, we have all had enough. Why can't we must move on. The guy sucks.

Those teams you listed were absolutely awful that year, Houston and Denver defensively were both 30th and 32nd in total yards per game, 32nd and 29th in points per game.

Cassel supporters will never give it up.

matthewschiefs

12-04-2012, 01:27 AM

I put the lack of offensive production solely on Cassel's shoulders. Not once has he ever took it upon himself to put up big numbers and win games when the defense is struggling. It hasn't happened. Other quarterbacks seem to do it, why can't he?

We are 3-20 when we throw more than we run. Awful numbers against winning teams, not just record but stats. Dink and dunk passer, no ability to come from behind and win. Please, enough of the Cassel talk, we have all had enough. Why can't we must move on. The guy sucks.

Those teams you listed were absolutely awful that year, Houston and Denver defensively were both 30th and 32nd in total yards per game, 32nd and 29th in points per game.

Cassel supporters will never give it up.

Just look at what we have seen this seasons Bad qb play yes its been there but we also have seen

Wr tipping balls to defenders A LOT
RBs fumbling both Hillis and Charles
Horrible O line play at to,es
Horrible play calling
a head coach that can't answer why the MVP on offense only got 5 carries
HORRIBLE defense a fair amount of the year

HOW can you ignore all of that and say that the QBs the reason we can't win. You just want to look at the results and the stats but that's just not a good way to look at it. You can make someone look as good or as bad as you want when you do that. Look at the WHOLE story what happened. When theres a INT can you really blame the QB when it hits the WR in the hand and he tips it to a defender like we have seen so much this year?

And you talk about how bad the ds on the other teams were does that excuse ours? What did we have to play with there defense to?

Like it or not there are WAY to many holes to say the QBS are the reason we are losing. I'm not a cassel supporter I WANT HIM GONE to. But I just object to this non stop pretending that the QBs the reason we are losing when there are so many other reasons we are losing. You say supporters wont give it up HATERS won't give it up. THREAD after thread about the QBs hall passes given to everyone else.

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 02:33 AM

Just look at what we have seen this seasons Bad qb play yes its been there but we also have seen

Wr tipping balls to defenders A LOT
RBs fumbling both Hillis and Charles
Horrible O line play at to,es
Horrible play calling
a head coach that can't answer why the MVP on offense only got 5 carries
HORRIBLE defense a fair amount of the year

HOW can you ignore all of that and say that the QBs the reason we can't win. You just want to look at the results and the stats but that's just not a good way to look at it. You can make someone look as good or as bad as you want when you do that. Look at the WHOLE story what happened. When theres a INT can you really blame the QB when it hits the WR in the hand and he tips it to a defender like we have seen so much this year?

And you talk about how bad the ds on the other teams were does that excuse ours? What did we have to play with there defense to?

Like it or not there are WAY to many holes to say the QBS are the reason we are losing. I'm not a cassel supporter I WANT HIM GONE to. But I just object to this non stop pretending that the QBs the reason we are losing when there are so many other reasons we are losing. You say supporters wont give it up HATERS won't give it up. THREAD after thread about the QBs hall passes given to everyone else.

Do you honestly think if Cassel had Aaron Rodgers' skills they would limit him throwing? They take the ball out of his hands because he sucks.

Didn't green bay have one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year? They somehow managed to go 15-1, why is that? Oh yes, the qb.

That being said I think we would be 7-5 or maybe 6-6 depending on that home game against san diego with a capable qb. Kyle Orton, who pretty much had the same coaching staff went 2-1, and he isn't even a starter in this league.

texaschief

12-04-2012, 02:39 AM

Do you honestly think if Cassel had Aaron Rodgers' skills they would limit him throwing? They take the ball out of his hands because he sucks.

THIS THIS AND MORE THIS

You can lead a horse to water, I guess...

matthewschiefs

12-04-2012, 12:19 PM

Do you honestly think if Cassel had Aaron Rodgers' skills they would limit him throwing? They take the ball out of his hands because he sucks.

How does that excuse the wrs for tipping balls to defenders, The O line being bad at times. The defense playing so poorly at times? That means that the only play they could run against the Steelers was run to the left? The QB play hasn't been good at all I will never deny that. But How can you ignore ALL THE OTHER poor play?

Didn't green bay have one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year? They somehow managed to go 15-1, why is that? Oh yes, the qb.

And tell me where his WRS tipping balls to defenders as much as we have seen ours? Does he suck because of the poor defense to? Is that his fault? Or is that just the rule with our QBs.They won games inspite of there D Rodgers is a GREAT qb. A great QB can overcome those at times. Cassel isn't a great Qb.He can't. But that excuses everyone else for there mistakes? Sorry I can't buy that.

That being said I think we would be 7-5 or maybe 6-6 depending on that home game against san diego with a capable qb. Kyle Orton, who pretty much had the same coaching staff went 2-1, and he isn't even a starter in this league.

Funny how you praise Orton when his biggest win game against a horrible Defense in the packers and he but up below what they averaged giving up. Funny how you give him credit for wins against a horrible d but you excuse every other Qb because of weak teams. You can't have it both ways.

With a better QB we would have more then 2 wins. But we wouldn't be going anywhere. Not with all the problems that this team has had. When you have this amount of poor play you have to put it on the door step of the head coach. If you're a realist then be a realist talk about ALL THE OTHER problems we have instead of just 1 OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. QB is a big problem but Coaching is a BIGGER problem with this team right now

brdempsey69

12-04-2012, 01:32 PM

....... but Coaching is a BIGGER problem with this team right now

People's Exhibit A:

They've just now figured it out that Tyson Jackson should be on the field playing DT in obvious passing situations along with Poe. That was something that should have been given a try many moons ago given that Jackson was a #3 overall pick.

They just never gave him the chance to play on the D-Line on obvious passing situations & now they are finding out that there is some value keeping him on the field every down & he's sacking the QB.

My point is, we didn't see TJ's value as an every-down D-Lineman because they didn't give him that chance to demonstrate it.

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 04:03 PM

How does that excuse the wrs for tipping balls to defenders, The O line being bad at times. The defense playing so poorly at times? That means that the only play they could run against the Steelers was run to the left? The QB play hasn't been good at all I will never deny that. But How can you ignore ALL THE OTHER poor play?

And tell me where his WRS tipping balls to defenders as much as we have seen ours? Does he suck because of the poor defense to? Is that his fault? Or is that just the rule with our QBs.They won games inspite of there D Rodgers is a GREAT qb. A great QB can overcome those at times. Cassel isn't a great Qb.He can't. But that excuses everyone else for there mistakes? Sorry I can't buy that.

Funny how you praise Orton when his biggest win game against a horrible Defense in the packers and he but up below what they averaged giving up. Funny how you give him credit for wins against a horrible d but you excuse every other Qb because of weak teams. You can't have it both ways.

With a better QB we would have more then 2 wins. But we wouldn't be going anywhere. Not with all the problems that this team has had. When you have this amount of poor play you have to put it on the door step of the head coach. If you're a realist then be a realist talk about ALL THE OTHER problems we have instead of just 1 OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. QB is a big problem but Coaching is a BIGGER problem with this team right now

The ol' tipped ball excuse, Matt, the Packers were among the league leaders in dropped passes, yet Aaron Rodgers, with a bad defense goes on to have a 15-1 season with a mvp trophy.

Drop Rate 2011: Which receivers are dropping the ball? | ProFootballFocus.com (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/)

Orton's games as a Chief were all against playoff calibur teams is my point, and he doesn't even start in this league. He had the same head coach that Cassel did.

My main point is this, quarterbacks have the ball in their hands. Good quarterbacks take control of games and offset mistakes made by their teammates (see aaron rodgers above)

Matt, Cassel was a bust. You need to just admit he is not a capable qb, and then we can all move on.

Atleast we can admit one thing, fat scott needs to be fired. He has disgraced this franchise with his lack of depth, bad drafts, and awful coaching decisions.

And it all started with paying that bum Cassel.

matthewschiefs

12-04-2012, 04:06 PM

People's Exhibit A:

They've just now figured it out that Tyson Jackson should be on the field playing DT in obvious passing situations along with Poe. That was something that should have been given a try many moons ago given that Jackson was a #3 overall pick.

They just never gave him the chance to play on the D-Line on obvious passing situations & now they are finding out that there is some value keeping him on the field every down & he's sacking the QB.

My point is, we didn't see TJ's value as an every-down D-Lineman because they didn't give him that chance to demonstrate it.

That's a good example there are a lot of things to point to about Horrible QB play this year I'm not going to deny that or make excuses for that. But there have been just as many if not more coaching blunders to deny or make excuses for. When the play across the board has been as bad as we have seen you have to point to the head coach. There's no excuse for that either. Nobody should make excuses for it as well.

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 04:07 PM

People's Exhibit A:

They've just now figured it out that Tyson Jackson should be on the field playing DT in obvious passing situations along with Poe. That was something that should have been given a try many moons ago given that Jackson was a #3 overall pick.

They just never gave him the chance to play on the D-Line on obvious passing situations & now they are finding out that there is some value keeping him on the field every down & he's sacking the QB.

My point is, we didn't see TJ's value as an every-down D-Lineman because they didn't give him that chance to demonstrate it.

He is a bust, the 2 sacks he had were coverage sacks, although I will admit he has looked better. If Pioli is gone, which I doubt now after this Belcher deal he will be cut.

matthewschiefs

12-04-2012, 04:22 PM

Matt, Cassel was a bust. You need to just admit he is not a capable qb, and then we can all move on.

I HAVE TIME AND TIME AGAIN. Note in BIG LETTERS I SAID I WANT HIM GONE.

I just don't pretend he's the reason we have been horrible when there has been so much bad play across the board this year like so many want to. I would love to say we are a qb away I would love to say the QB spot is the reason we are losing I CAN'T with all the other bad play we have seen. It's just not fair to say.

You and others go through EXTREMES to hate on the QBS. Not even 3 hours after we had a qb throw for 200 yards and 2 tds while not turning it over and we saw a WIN this thread talking about our horrible qbs pops up. Did we really need anther bashing the QB thread? You have time and time again praised Orton. He beat a Packers team that had a horrible d. They averaged giving up 22 points a game we put up 19 below average against a horrible d Yet you praise him but yet any win we have you dismiss for a horrible team or "cream puff" You can't have it both ways. You and others give the guys you like all the credit none of the blame while giving our qbs no credit and all the blame. I give blame across the board and "have a lovefest" for the qbs. How many times do we have to talk about the bad qb play? It has been there but to ignore all the other horrible play we have seen to hate on the qb is just hating end of story its all some of you ever do on here anymore. IT'S OLD. Feel free to keep hating I will keep telling you that's all your doing.

brdempsey69

12-04-2012, 04:36 PM

He is a bust, the 2 sacks he had were coverage sacks, although I will admit he has looked better. If Pioli is gone, which I doubt now after this Belcher deal he will be cut.

Bust, no. Over-drafted, yes.

nigeriannightmare

12-04-2012, 04:37 PM

I would hardly call the raiders a playoff caliber team.

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 05:13 PM

Bust, no. Over-drafted, yes.

A third pick in the entire draft, and he is rated one of the worst at his position.

He is a bust.

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 05:15 PM

I would hardly call the raiders a playoff caliber team.

They were one win away from winning the division last year

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 05:17 PM

I HAVE TIME AND TIME AGAIN. Note in BIG LETTERS I SAID I WANT HIM GONE.

I just don't pretend he's the reason we have been horrible when there has been so much bad play across the board this year like so many want to. I would love to say we are a qb away I would love to say the QB spot is the reason we are losing I CAN'T with all the other bad play we have seen. It's just not fair to say.

You and others go through EXTREMES to hate on the QBS. Not even 3 hours after we had a qb throw for 200 yards and 2 tds while not turning it over and we saw a WIN this thread talking about our horrible qbs pops up. Did we really need anther bashing the QB thread? You have time and time again praised Orton. He beat a Packers team that had a horrible d. They averaged giving up 22 points a game we put up 19 below average against a horrible d Yet you praise him but yet any win we have you dismiss for a horrible team or "cream puff" You can't have it both ways. You and others give the guys you like all the credit none of the blame while giving our qbs no credit and all the blame. I give blame across the board and "have a lovefest" for the qbs. How many times do we have to talk about the bad qb play? It has been there but to ignore all the other horrible play we have seen to hate on the qb is just hating end of story its all some of you ever do on here anymore. IT'S OLD. Feel free to keep hating I will keep telling you that's all your doing.

Fine, Cassel is the reason for the lack of offensive production.

Because he sucks.

On to another subject, not saying you have done this, but this is just in general. Please do not push for Quinn to start next year after 1 good game against a 3-8 team. We need to learn our lesson from 2010.

matthewschiefs

12-04-2012, 06:32 PM

Fine, Cassel is the reason for the lack of offensive production.

Because he sucks.

On to another subject, not saying you have done this, but this is just in general. Please do not push for Quinn to start next year after 1 good game against a 3-8 team. We need to learn our lesson from 2010.

Cassel is a big part of the reason that the offense has sucked but he's not THE reason there are many reasons why it has sucked but I will agree Cassel is a HUGE part of the reason why the offense has stunk so badly. But can you deny there has been poor play around him at times as well. That's all I'm saying. Why is it so hard to point to the rest of the problem?

I'm not going to push for Quinn to start next year. I have said and will keep saying that IF he plays the rest of the year the way he did Sunday then he should get to fight for the job. With a rookie or free agent whatever the case would be. If he does what he did Sunday the rest of the year wouldn't it be fair to give him a CHANCE at the job. That's a big if but Quinn hasn't even had 1 season of starts If he does do what he did Sunday going forward I don't think we can ignore that. I have my doubts that it'll happen but I think it's something we would have to look at.

MyManHali

12-04-2012, 06:51 PM

Cassel is a big part of the reason that the offense has sucked but he's not THE reason there are many reasons why it has sucked but I will agree Cassel is a HUGE part of the reason why the offense has stunk so badly. But can you deny there has been poor play around him at times as well. That's all I'm saying. Why is it so hard to point to the rest of the problem?

I'm not going to push for Quinn to start next year. I have said and will keep saying that IF he plays the rest of the year the way he did Sunday then he should get to fight for the job. With a rookie or free agent whatever the case would be. If he does what he did Sunday the rest of the year wouldn't it be fair to give him a CHANCE at the job. That's a big if but Quinn hasn't even had 1 season of starts If he does do what he did Sunday going forward I don't think we can ignore that. I have my doubts that it'll happen but I think it's something we would have to look at.

I am worried that we are going to win enough games to fall into the 4-5 spot and go for Teo, which will happen if fat scott is still here.

matthewschiefs

12-04-2012, 09:03 PM

I am worried that we are going to win enough games to fall into the 4-5 spot and go for Teo, which will happen if fat scott is still here.

I wouldn't mind getting Teo at all,. IMO he has looked better throughout the year then any qb that will be out there.

Bike

12-04-2012, 11:12 PM

I wouldn't mind getting Teo at all,. IMO he has looked better throughout the year then any qb that will be out there.
Agreed. No Andrew Luck or RGlll in this draft.

Bike

12-04-2012, 11:20 PM

Cassel is a big part of the reason that the offense has sucked but he's not THE reason there are many reasons why it has sucked but I will agree Cassel is a HUGE part of the reason why the offense has stunk so badly. But can you deny there has been poor play around him at times as well. That's all I'm saying. Why is it so hard to point to the rest of the problem?

I'm not going to push for Quinn to start next year. I have said and will keep saying that IF he plays the rest of the year the way he did Sunday then he should get to fight for the job. With a rookie or free agent whatever the case would be. If he does what he did Sunday the rest of the year wouldn't it be fair to give him a CHANCE at the job. That's a big if but Quinn hasn't even had 1 season of starts If he does do what he did Sunday going forward I don't think we can ignore that. I have my doubts that it'll happen but I think it's something we would have to look at.
Perhaps the players around Cassel weren't playing up to their potential due to Cassel's lack of a command presence in the huddle and on the field of play. I think the team lost confidence in him. Quinn looked much better in this respect than Cassel ever has IMHO.

texaschief

12-05-2012, 02:44 AM

I'm not sold on taking a QB in the first round either. If we could nab either Klein or Barkley (because of injury) in the 2nd, that would be my aim. Getting the best player in the draft or trading down for multiple picks should be the only concerns for the Chiefs.

Although, I will say that after watching the KSU/UT game the other night, I've cooled quite a bit on Klein. His throwing motion seems long and doesn't posses the arm strength I first thought he had. I watched him with acute interest wondering why he wasn't getting more first round consideration... I get it now.

Flacco COULD be available. His agent thinks he's a top 5 QB and the Ravens may balk. He'll probably get franchised again, but he could become available... who knows. Another option COULD be Tony Romo. There seems to be a 50/50 split on what Romo is. He's probably not a top 3 QB, but I don't think he's out of the top 10 either. His INTs troubled me, but then I looked at them and he's average. His 15 picks are within one or two of about 10-15 QBs in the league. His QBR is 90, which again, is about average. However, he's 3rd in yds and has a 70 completion percentage. He won't be a free agent, but he won't cost too much considering he's only under control for one year... unless they work out an extension first. One last free agent option could be Jason Campbell.

The Romo trade would probably cost our 2nd round pick AND a first round pick swap.

matthewschiefs

12-05-2012, 06:41 PM

Perhaps the players around Cassel weren't playing up to their potential due to Cassel's lack of a command presence in the huddle and on the field of play. I think the team lost confidence in him. Quinn looked much better in this respect than Cassel ever has IMHO.

Cassel has no doubt hurt the other players around him. There's no denying that. But that's also been the case the other way around the other players have hurt Cassel. Cassel has hurt more then others but others have hurt him as well that's all I'm saying. It's not as simple to say that Cassel is the reason we are where we are the TEAM is. And when that happens you point to the head coach,.

I agree with you on Quinn Sundays game He LOOKED like a qb and a good one. Now we need to see it more then once. And we need to see it very often if he's going to be the guy but for one sunday he looked very good. Can he be the guy I have doubts but I'm open to it if he keeps up what he did Sunday.

MyManHali

12-07-2012, 07:23 AM

I HAVE TIME AND TIME AGAIN. Note in BIG LETTERS I SAID I WANT HIM GONE.

I just don't pretend he's the reason we have been horrible when there has been so much bad play across the board this year like so many want to. I would love to say we are a qb away I would love to say the QB spot is the reason we are losing I CAN'T with all the other bad play we have seen. It's just not fair to say.

You and others go through EXTREMES to hate on the QBS. Not even 3 hours after we had a qb throw for 200 yards and 2 tds while not turning it over and we saw a WIN this thread talking about our horrible qbs pops up. Did we really need anther bashing the QB thread? You have time and time again praised Orton. He beat a Packers team that had a horrible d. They averaged giving up 22 points a game we put up 19 below average against a horrible d Yet you praise him but yet any win we have you dismiss for a horrible team or "cream puff" You can't have it both ways. You and others give the guys you like all the credit none of the blame while giving our qbs no credit and all the blame. I give blame across the board and "have a lovefest" for the qbs. How many times do we have to talk about the bad qb play? It has been there but to ignore all the other horrible play we have seen to hate on the qb is just hating end of story its all some of you ever do on here anymore. IT'S OLD. Feel free to keep hating I will keep telling you that's all your doing.

I liked Orton because he reminded me of Trent Green, he wasn't a franchise pro bowl qb but he could read defenses and make throws. 2009 was his first year in Denver, he played a tough schedule and had a pretty productive year.

I thought with a little time he would be good for us, he had proven that he could play legit teams and do well, Cassel never did. Even Cassel's year in New England he contributed to beating ONE winning team, and that was with the team that went 19-1 the previous year. I thought with a great running game Orton could of been even MORE productive, but that time has passed.

matthewschiefs

12-07-2012, 10:41 AM

I liked Orton because he reminded me of Trent Green, he wasn't a franchise pro bowl qb but he could read defenses and make throws. 2009 was his first year in Denver, he played a tough schedule and had a pretty productive year.

I thought with a little time he would be good for us, he had proven that he could play legit teams and do well, Cassel never did. Even Cassel's year in New England he contributed to beating ONE winning team, and that was with the team that went 19-1 the previous year. I thought with a great running game Orton could of been even MORE productive, but that time has passed.

I will say the offense looked better with Orton at QB last year but just like there was some things working against him there were things in his favor. The Number 1 thing is there was never much film on him with this team.We never will no how he would continue going.

But my point about Orton isn't what could have been it was showing how your standards are 100% different from what it's with Cassel. Orton beat the packers because the D stood up. Same with Denver. The D was playing great at the end of last year.That's why we won.You would be saying that if it had been Cassel at QB. The Packers had one of the worst Defenses in the NFL last year. If Cassel had been the QB you would be saying that. You make excuses for every win we had with Cassel while praising Orton in the same spot. Orton might have made the offense look better but we lost the division because he couldn't put up much points against the Raiders. He had the same problem with the offense that Cassel did last year he moved the ball some but once we got into the redzone it was over and we had to settle for 3. Yet you praise 1 bash the other. Orton might have made the offense look a bit better but the results were not much better when it comes to the number 1 thing for an offense points on the board.

MyManHali

12-07-2012, 06:49 PM

I will say the offense looked better with Orton at QB last year but just like there was some things working against him there were things in his favor. The Number 1 thing is there was never much film on him with this team.We never will no how he would continue going.

But my point about Orton isn't what could have been it was showing how your standards are 100% different from what it's with Cassel. Orton beat the packers because the D stood up. Same with Denver. The D was playing great at the end of last year.That's why we won.You would be saying that if it had been Cassel at QB. The Packers had one of the worst Defenses in the NFL last year. If Cassel had been the QB you would be saying that. You make excuses for every win we had with Cassel while praising Orton in the same spot. Orton might have made the offense look better but we lost the division because he couldn't put up much points against the Raiders. He had the same problem with the offense that Cassel did last year he moved the ball some but once we got into the redzone it was over and we had to settle for 3. Yet you praise 1 bash the other. Orton might have made the offense look a bit better but the results were not much better when it comes to the number 1 thing for an offense points on the board.

He had been there a month. Cassel had been there for 3 seasons. He was picked up off of waivers for god's sakes. He was even coming off an injury and playing with a team he had absolutely no experience playing with.

My standards were different because I have seen Kyle Orton play well against good teams, I have never seen that with Matt Cassel in his 4 seasons as a starter. Why would I want someone who plays like a scrub against legit teams? Kyle Orton atleast proved that he was capable, and that was without a great ground game to hide behind.

You can say "Well if cassel beat Green Bay you would of talked about how bad the defense was." I firmly believe Cassel would of made mistakes against Green Bay and Denver to lose the game, there is no doubt in my mind.

matthewschiefs

12-07-2012, 09:22 PM

He had been there a month. Cassel had been there for 3 seasons. He was picked up off of waivers for god's sakes. He was even coming off an injury and playing with a team he had absolutely no experience playing with.

And other teams had no to very little tape on him with our offense. That goes both ways not just one. It's a lot easier in some ways just like it was a lot harder in some ways for Orton.

My standards were different because I have seen Kyle Orton play well against good teams, I have never seen that with Matt Cassel in his 4 seasons as a starter. Why would I want someone who plays like a scrub against legit teams? Kyle Orton atleast proved that he was capable, and that was without a great ground game to hide behind.

The problem is that your standard is whatever is Anti Cassel. Let me just give a couple of these.

1. Week 1 2010 the Chiefs beat the Chargers you say it was inspite of Cassel Well week 17 we put up a grand total of 7 points and Orton gets full credit for the win?

2. Week 2 this year. You were very proud to say see what Bowe did. It's the 1 time I said you were trolling. Yet when I say look at Cassel's numbers you were quick to say "he did that once the game was already over" Ya well so did Bowe. They put up there numbers at the same time. Since Bowe needs Cassel to get him the ball and Cassel needs Bowe to catch it. 1 you give credit 2 the other you bash.

3. You spent part of the offseason telling me that the loss of Charles "was just an excuse for Cassel" Now you want to talk about Orton not having a ground game so are you "just making excuses for Orton"?

Orton Looked better in his brief time in KC then Cassel did for most of his. But looking better doesn't mean much if points are not going on the board any better. Putting points on the board is the number 1 job of an offense under Orton they didn't do that much better then Cassel. We will never no what would have happened. Orton could have really gotten something going if he had more time there is no denying that but what also could have happened is other teams get a gameplan for Orton in this offense and we would be going nowhere. There's also no denying that. I don't think there's a reason to be to high or low on Orton we just didn't see enough

MyManHali

12-07-2012, 11:53 PM

And other teams had no to very little tape on him with our offense. That goes both ways not just one. It's a lot easier in some ways just like it was a lot harder in some ways for Orton.

The problem is that your standard is whatever is Anti Cassel. Let me just give a couple of these.

1. Week 1 2010 the Chiefs beat the Chargers you say it was inspite of Cassel Well week 17 we put up a grand total of 7 points and Orton gets full credit for the win?

He threw for 68 hot **** yards against SD. And I never said "Orton beat denver." Looking at the big picture Matt, I wanted Orton as our qb for the next year, based on what I had seen in the past and what he did for us in that short time frame as a Chief, was on par and in my opinion better than what Cassel did.

2. Week 2 this year. You were very proud to say see what Bowe did. It's the 1 time I said you were trolling. Yet when I say look at Cassel's numbers you were quick to say "he did that once the game was already over" Ya well so did Bowe. They put up there numbers at the same time. Since Bowe needs Cassel to get him the ball and Cassel needs Bowe to catch it. 1 you give credit 2 the other you bash.

3. You spent part of the offseason telling me that the loss of Charles "was just an excuse for Cassel" Now you want to talk about Orton not having a ground game so are you "just making excuses for Orton"?

I was not making an excuse for Orton, because Orton succeeded and did well against a legit schedule without a running game. Cassel has never done well even with an elite running game against a legit schedule. Hell, even with a 19-1 team

Orton Looked better in his brief time in KC then Cassel did for most of his. But looking better doesn't mean much if points are not going on the board any better. Putting points on the board is the number 1 job of an offense under Orton they didn't do that much better then Cassel. We will never no what would have happened. Orton could have really gotten something going if he had more time there is no denying that but what also could have happened is other teams get a gameplan for Orton in this offense and we would be going nowhere. There's also no denying that. I don't think there's a reason to be to high or low on Orton we just didn't see enough

2. It was a 35-3 game, a complete blowout. It just makes me sick that a 60 million dollar qb can't put up points. If you recall, I said Bowe was "The only one playing hard."

Well obviously looking back everyone can agree we would of been much better off with Kyle Orton. What do you think is more complicated? One man trying to figure out his teammates and the opposing defense, or one defense going against a simplistic offensive gameplan?

For some reason I cant highlight my second and third answers in bold up above, but they are in there.

matthewschiefs

12-08-2012, 12:13 AM

2. It was a 35-3 game, a complete blowout. It just makes me sick that a 60 million dollar qb can't put up points. If you recall, I said Bowe was "The only one playing hard."

Well obviously looking back everyone can agree we would of been much better off with Kyle Orton. What do you think is more complicated? One man trying to figure out his teammates and the opposing defense, or one defense going against a simplistic offensive gameplan?

For some reason I cant highlight my second and third answers in bold up above, but they are in there.

So 7 points against Denver is succeeding? Losing to Oakland because we couldn't get the ball in the end zone is succeeding? Why are your standards for Orton so low but for Cassel so high if Orton is clearly the bettter guy?

Bowe Played hard? Then why wasn't he doing anything till the game was already over? Is he just not as good as we thought that he just couldn't preform? I know you will blame Cassel because it's what you haters do when the offense struggles excuse everyone else or say they played bad because of Cassel. I won't buy that. We have seen Bowe play better then he has a lot of the times this season WITH CASSEL at qb. But go on living in fantasy land where everything would be roses if we just had anther QB. I'll stick to the real world and look at the WHOLE problem not just one peace of the problem because I think you have to look at the WHOLE problem if you're going to fix it. But I have and will continue to admit QB has been a big problem it's just not easy to say we would be so much better with any QB seeing how many times this year others have failed in there job.

MyManHali

12-08-2012, 12:21 AM

So 7 points against Denver is succeeding? Losing to Oakland because we couldn't get the ball in the end zone is succeeding? Why are your standards for Orton so low but for Cassel so high if Orton is clearly the bettter guy?

Because of the 20 million cassel was making that year, and the length of time he was signed for.
We also traded a second round pick to get him, Orton was claimed off waivers. Orton played better than cassel did during his time here, combine that and his past success against a legit schedule in Denver, that is all of the evidence I need.

Bowe Played hard? Then why wasn't he doing anything till the game was already over? Is he just not as good as we thought that he just couldn't preform? I know you will blame Cassel because it's what you haters do when the offense struggles excuse everyone else or say they played bad because of Cassel. I won't buy that. We have seen Bowe play better then he has a lot of the times this season WITH CASSEL at qb. But go on living in fantasy land where everything would be roses if we just had anther QB. I'll stick to the real world and look at the WHOLE problem not just one peace of the problem because I think you have to look at the WHOLE problem if you're going to fix it. But I have and will continue to admit QB has been a big problem it's just not easy to say we would be so much better with any QB seeing how many times this year others have failed in there job. I said Bowe played hard, what is wrong with that?

"Ill stick to the real world and look at the whole problem." Haha where was that last season? You were the one who failed to realize what a bust Pioli was and also failed to realize Cassel was not the answer. I spoke out about it and got absolutely trashed.

Don't act like you are the one who sees the whole picture, You were the one who spent post after post defending our GM, his players, and our quarterback. Expectations were high from you, were they not? I was the one expecting a below .500 year. How many times have I trashed Pioli's depth? His prospects? The coaching?

How many times did i get trashed for saying things like speaking out against Daboll before the year started. I wasn't on board with any of it. I knew Pioli would crash and burn.

You clearly did not see the whole picture.

I am the one who was right. You were wrong.

matthewschiefs

12-08-2012, 12:38 AM

"Ill stick to the real world and look at the whole problem." Haha where was that last season? You were the one who failed to realize what a bust Pioli was and also failed to realize Cassel was not the answer. I spoke out about it and got absolutely trashed.

Don't act like you are the one who sees the whole picture, You were the one who spent post after post defending our GM, his players, and our quarterback. Expectations were high from you, were they not? I was the one expecting a below .500 year.

I am the one who was right. You were wrong.

Yes because one guy is clearly the reason we are losing. That's real world. When our Wrs are tipping passes to defenders DARN THAT QB. When our rbs have fumbled twice in 1 game on our own side of the field DARN THAT QB. When the defense can't catch a cold DARN THAT QB. All what we have heard this year. But you're right Cassel has been the thing holding us back. Everyone else is fine.

The reason you got "trashed" is you repeat the SAME stuff OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. So many on here do it. BLAH OUR QBS SUCK BLAH OUR QBS SUCK. It's all you do. It's old. You make excuses for anything the 2 guys who you don't like Pioli and Cassel have done well (given that's not much) then expect to be able to use the same excuse for the god amoung qbs that is Kyle Orton apperently. And when I use your same logic to say well that win wasn't such a big deal like going against a HORRIBLE packers D you seem to have a problem with it. You get the response you get from me because you like others have 1 set of rules for the guys you like. Anther for the guy you don't who you will take every chance to hate. Like I've said to you so many times You can't have it both ways.

I was thinking we would contend for the AFC west I was wrong about that. But I won't live in the pretend world you do where Cassel is the thing holding us back. Bowe has let us down at times. Charles let us down against the chargers. The defense has played so poorly way to often this year. This coaching staff has been HORRIBLE. (outside of this past week) This team has been so bad across the board. Changing Qbs will help some but it won't even come close to fixing all the problems. We have WAY to many problems for that.

MyManHali

12-08-2012, 12:45 AM

Yes because one guy is clearly the reason we are losing. That's real world. When our Wrs are tipping passes to defenders DARN THAT QB. When our rbs have fumbled twice in 1 game on our own side of the field DARN THAT QB. When the defense can't catch a cold DARN THAT QB. All what we have heard this year. But you're right Cassel has been the thing holding us back. Everyone else is fine.

The reason you got "trashed" is you repeat the SAME stuff OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. So many on here do it. BLAH OUR QBS SUCK BLAH OUR QBS SUCK. It's all you do. It's old. You make excuses for anything the 2 guys who you don't like Pioli and Cassel have done well (given that's not much) then expect to be able to use the same excuse for the god amoung qbs that is Kyle Orton apperently. And when I use your same logic to say well that win wasn't such a big deal like going against a HORRIBLE packers D you seem to have a problem with it. You get the response you get from me because you like others have 1 set of rules for the guys you like. Anther for the guy you don't who you will take every chance to hate. Like I've said to you so many times You can't have it both ways.

I was thinking we would contend for the AFC west I was wrong about that. But I won't live in the pretend world you do where Cassel is the thing holding us back. Bowe has let us down at times. Charles let us down against the chargers. The defense has played so poorly way to often this year. This coaching staff has been HORRIBLE. (outside of this past week) This team has been so bad across the board. Changing Qbs will help some but it won't even come close to fixing all the problems. We have WAY to many problems for that.

But was I right?

Matt, honestly, if we had a capable QB what do you think our record would be right now.

Because, I think it would be atleast 6-6, the whole team reacted completely different with a new qb under center last season (No not Palko), I didn't think the Chiefs believe in Cassel, at all. I would have to search for this, and I will when I am not at work, Tamba Hali praised Orton and said it was nice to have a qb that can complete some drives and give the defense a break.

What should I be praising Cassel for? His awful starting record? His rating? The money and length of time he has been here? The fact we gave up a second round pick? We wasted 4 seasons with that scrub. If you can't see that then something is clearly wrong with you. As a fan of the Chiefs I can't even begin to comprehend why you would defend that scrub AT ALL. He screwed our franchise.

And let's backup for a second, I will blame one man for the fall of our team. I blame Scott Pioli.

matthewschiefs

12-08-2012, 12:58 AM

But was I right?

Matt, honestly, if we had a capable QB what do you think our record would be right now.

Because, I think it would be atleast 6-6, the whole team reacted completely different with a new qb under center last season (No not Palko), I didn't think the Chiefs believe in Cassel, at all. I would have to search for this, and I will when I am not at work, Tamba Hali praised Orton and said it was nice to have a qb that can complete some drives and give the defense a break.

What should I be praising Cassel for? His awful starting record? His rating? The money and length of time he has been here? The fact we gave up a second round pick? We wasted 4 seasons with that scrub. If you can't see that then something is clearly wrong with you. As a fan of the Chiefs I can't even begin to comprehend why you would defend that scrub AT ALL. He screwed our franchise.

I think we would be a couple more wins possibly .500 I would agree but we still wouldn't be going anywhere .500 would be tops and I think it's a reach to say that.

Aww yes this they don't believe in Cassel cop out. That's what it is to excuse everyone else from there mistakes. Being at work just think what would happen if you messed up and while your boss was rideing you about it you just said well it doesn't matter so an so would have just screwed it up. Would your boss just say oh that's right and walk away? He might just walk away after telling you to seek employment somewhere else. These guys are not paid to "believe in Cassel" They are paid do there job. They haven't WAY to often this year.

I didn't say you should be praising Cassel I just said for every win he has had you have an excuse for. I used the same ones against your guy and you seem to have a problem with it. Like I said it's one set of rules for your guy and anther for Cassel. There is such a double standard out there. Cassel isn't a great QB but that doesn't mean his standards should be higher then any other QB out there I will still say he's not as bad as he has looked this year and that like every other spot he has suffered from this HORRIBLE coaching staff. I hold Cassel to blame for his fair share of this horrible season he's the most to blame from any player but I hold Romeo more to blame because of the poor play across the board.

MyManHali

12-08-2012, 01:08 AM

I think we would be a couple more wins possibly .500 I would agree but we still wouldn't be going anywhere .500 would be tops and I think it's a reach to say that.

Aww yes this they don't believe in Cassel cop out. That's what it is to excuse everyone else from there mistakes. Being at work just think what would happen if you messed up and while your boss was rideing you about it you just said well it doesn't matter so an so would have just screwed it up. Would your boss just say oh that's right and walk away? He might just walk away after telling you to seek employment somewhere else. These guys are not paid to "believe in Cassel" They are paid do there job. They haven't WAY to often this year.

I didn't say you should be praising Cassel I just said for every win he has had you have an excuse for. I used the same ones against your guy and you seem to have a problem with it. Like I said it's one set of rules for your guy and anther for Cassel. There is such a double standard out there. Cassel isn't a great QB but that doesn't mean his standards should be higher then any other QB out there I will still say he's not as bad as he has looked this year and that like every other spot he has suffered from this HORRIBLE coaching staff. I hold Cassel to blame for his fair share of this horrible season he's the most to blame from any player but I hold Romeo more to blame because of the poor play across the board.

His standards should be high when he is given a contract similar to a number 1 pick and was pretty much given the keys to this franchise. We didn't pick him up in FA and he wasn't playing on a 1-2 year deal worth 500k. You do know he was making more than every other qb with the exception of Peyton Manning in 09 right? You don't pay a questionable starter that kind of money.

Even though Orton did lsome good things like bring KC back and put them in a position to win the game in that game against oakland he was the reason they lost. I have never, EVER made excuses for Kyle Orton in that Oakland game, not once had I ever brought up the time when Bowe dropped the ball in the end zone, then Orton threw a pick the play right after the dropped ball. I never ever brought that up Matt, do you know why? Because he is the quarterback, he is the leader of the team and should accept responsibility for his actions.

The problem is KC franchise and most of the fanbase never held Cassel accountable for anything, it was usually always someone elses fault.

The job of the quarterback is to step up and be the leader, accept responsibility for the things that happen out on the field, especially offensively. How many times have we seen Green Bay drop a pass, or do something that offsets the team and Aaron Rodgers steps up and makes it happen. THATS WHY THEY GET PAID. I have never heard Cassel accept responsibility for a loss. Not once, I have heard other great qb's say it, but not Cassel.

matthewschiefs

12-08-2012, 01:27 AM

His standards should be high when he is given a contract similar to a number 1 pick and was pretty much given the keys to this franchise. We didn't pick him up in FA and he wasn't playing on a 1-2 year deal worth 500k. You do know he was making more than every other qb with the exception of Peyton Manning in 09 right? You don't pay a questionable starter that kind of money.

Even though Orton did lsome good things like bring KC back and put them in a position to win the game in that game against oakland he was the reason they lost. I have never, EVER made excuses for Kyle Orton in that Oakland game, not once had I ever brought up the time when Bowe dropped the ball in the end zone, then Orton threw a pick the play right after the dropped ball. I never ever brought that up Matt, do you know why? Because he is the quarterback, he is the leader of the team and should accept responsibility for his actions.

The problem is KC franchise and most of the fanbase never held Cassel accountable for anything, it was usually always someone elses fault.

The job of the quarterback is to step up and be the leader, accept responsibility for the things that happen out on the field, especially offensively. How many times have we seen Green Bay drop a pass, or do something that offsets the team and Aaron Rodgers steps up and makes it happen. THATS WHY THEY GET PAID. I have never heard Cassel accept responsibility for a loss. Not once, I have heard other great qb's say it, but not Cassel.

So it's money for you ok I don't agree with that but I can respect that.

To me money isn't an issue. All these guys make good money. They should do there jobs just as Cassel should. And they haven't far to often just as Cassel.

I never said you made excuse for Orton I said you make excuses for just about every win Cassel has. When I use the same for Ortons wins you don't seem to be as willing to here them. It's just as I said 1 set of rules and 1 standard for Cassel 1 different for Orton. IF that's because of money ok I can at least now know why. I can at least respect that

MyManHali

12-08-2012, 01:34 AM

So it's money for you ok I don't agree with that but I can respect that.

To me money isn't an issue. All these guys make good money. They should do there jobs just as Cassel should. And they haven't far to often just as Cassel.

I never said you made excuse for Orton I said you make excuses for just about every win Cassel has. When I use the same for Ortons wins you don't seem to be as willing to here them. It's just as I said 1 set of rules and 1 standard for Cassel 1 different for Orton. IF that's because of money ok I can at least now know why. I can at least respect that

To be specific it is not money,when you pay someone that much chances are they will be with you for a long time, especially if pioli signs them, and Cassel has been here for 4 seasons. If he signs him to a 1 year deal, then it's a completely different situation.

They should be held to different standards Matt, one has been trusted with the organization, has signed a fat contract for 6 years and the other was claimed off waivers. I don't understand why you dont understand that. And I know you remember this, specifically my plea was not for Orton to be our starter, it was for ANYONE ELSE not named Matt Cassel to be our starter. But yes, I would of much rather had Orton as our guy than Cassel.

Ultimately, I put all the blame on Scott Pioli, he is the one who orchestrated the whole deal.

matthewschiefs

12-08-2012, 01:56 AM

To be specific it is not money,when you pay someone that much chances are they will be with you for a long time, especially if pioli signs them, and Cassel has been here for 4 seasons. If he signs him to a 1 year deal, then it's a completely different situation.

They should be held to different standards Matt, one has been trusted with the organization, has signed a fat contract for 6 years and the other was claimed off waivers. I don't understand why you dont understand that. And I know you remember this, specifically my plea was not for Orton to be our starter, it was for ANYONE ELSE not named Matt Cassel to be our starter. But yes, I would of much rather had Orton as our guy than Cassel.

Ultimately, I put all the blame on Scott Pioli, he is the one who orchestrated the whole deal.

To me it doesn't matter what the contract is for the job is the same. When you're at work and you mess up again if your boss is getting on you for that if you say well so and so messed up and he makes more it won't fix the fact that you messed up. If a player messes up that hurts the team just as much if there being paid 60 million or 60$. I understand your mindset a lot of people have it I just don't agree with it.

Scott Pioli has made a big mistake with Cassel. But I think he has made a bigger one. Romeo as the head coach. Let me put it this way. Looking at the QB being the problem would be as If you go to the doctor and he tells you that you have a sprained ankle and a life threating illness saying you no doc I really want to get that sprained ankle taken care of. Sure it hurts and it can really limit what you can do but it's not as much as a harm to you as the illness. Cassel has been the sprained ankle he has hurt the team and he has limited what we can do. The coaching of this team is the cause of death. It was the illness.