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View Full Version : Pinstripe Bowl: WVU v Syracuse



AussieChiefsFan
12-29-2012, 06:22 AM
http://web.pinstripebowl.com/images/pinstripe_logo_2012a.png
December 29th, 3:15 p.m. ET


Last game of the season for Geno Smith, and our last chance to see him play as a Mountaineer before the Draft.

AussieChiefsFan
12-29-2012, 06:45 AM
GameDay Weather

http://i.imgur.com/FylK6.png

Hourly:
http://i.imgur.com/kTtBP.png

whackojacko58
12-29-2012, 10:00 AM
Geno geno geno

Coach
12-29-2012, 10:58 AM
Looking forward to this game.

NJChiefs
12-29-2012, 11:09 AM
We should all watch this ... The comments to follow should be very interesting. Sure its just one game, but he knows whats at stake. His performance today will reveal a lot about his ability to perform when it really counts. Thats what we need to see.

whackojacko58
12-29-2012, 11:29 AM
Agreed

chiefnut
12-29-2012, 11:54 AM
this is an ideal game for CHIEFS fans to watch. geno smith vs ryan nassib. both highly draftable QBs. i want to get a good look at them both.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 12:58 PM
Hope everyone tunes in to see Geno!

swochief
12-29-2012, 01:11 PM
I'll be watching both qbs today. I know nothing about the Nassib kid but some here like him , so if he's a possible draft pick i'd like to see what we may be getting.

MyManHali
12-29-2012, 04:10 PM
Geno Geno Geno!

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 04:25 PM
Great job on that play fake of going through his reads FROM UNDER CENTER.

NJChiefs
12-29-2012, 04:33 PM
Gonna be tough to gauge ability in this weather.

texaschief
12-29-2012, 04:46 PM
Nassib looks like Phillip Rivers with a better throwing motion. Bodies look very similar.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 04:49 PM
nassib looks good so far. this my first time watching him and he looks like a good prospect, think his footwork needs a little work and he needs to not throw 90mph fastballs at 10 yards but i like that he's accurate and is decisive in his reads and throws.

geno's made 1 decent throw.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 04:49 PM
Nassib looks like Phillip Rivers with a better throwing motion. Bodies look very similar.

Better? Rivers has a pretty quick release. Nassib has this huge windup...Lot of unnecessary motion.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 04:52 PM
rivers has a very akward release and lets the ball come off his hand he doesn't drive it.

I like nassib's release and arm motion it is not a wind up and not unnecessary at all it's damn near perfect. his footwork is good to just needs a little work in his bounce and opening up his stance when he first catches the snap, although under center will eliminate alot of that.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 04:57 PM
rivers has a very akward release and lets the ball come off his hand he doesn't drive it.

I like nassib's release and arm motion it is not a wind up and not unnecessary at all it's damn near perfect. his footwork is good to just needs a little work in his bounce and opening up his stance when he first catches the snap, although under center will eliminate alot of that.

It's awkward but it's one of the quickest releases in the NFL.

Damn near perfect? It's closer to Tebow than it is to perfect, lol.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 04:59 PM
tebow drops the ball down to his hip, nassib brings his elbow back and raises the ball and drives on it. I'm not saying it's a quick release but his motion is damn good and he gets crazy amount of velocity on it, which a quick release doesn't do.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 05:02 PM
tebow drops the ball down to his hip, nassib brings his elbow back and raises the ball and drives on it. I'm not saying it's a quick release but his motion is damn good and he gets crazy amount of velocity on it, which a quick release doesn't do.

Seriously keep watching, he brings the ball down to his hip too...

Or watch this in the meantime. Ryan Nassib vs Louisville 2012 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2lLS4r_77g)

The 0:35 second mark is a good example (in slow-mo too). The 0:44 second mark is another good example.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:06 PM
watch his elbow he brings it back. tebow does a loop, Nassib has a windup i'm not saying he doesn't but it's pretty quick wind up and good motion, in the video you posted he does drop the ball down by his hip but it comes straight up and he drives it, his motion with a minor tweak would be ideal. tebows was unfixable, nassib just needs a minor tweak

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 05:08 PM
watch his elbow he brings it back. tebow does a loop, Nassib has a windup i'm not saying he doesn't but it's pretty quick wind up and good motion, in the video you posted he does drop the ball down by his hip but it comes straight up and he drives it, his motion with a minor tweak would be ideal. tebows was unfixable, nassib just needs a minor tweak

So like I said, closer to Tebow than "perfect". He throws well, good velocity. It's just not mechanically sound.

slc chief
12-29-2012, 05:08 PM
40td's and 6 picks is pretty impressive

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:12 PM
it's nothing like tebows. tebow has a wind up. nassib makes a 90 degree angle, elbow back and up and drives it.

the ideal motion is football at chest, elbow comes back and ball raises up to shoulder and drive to release. making a 90 degree from when you bring the elbow back to up to the shoulder then out. which nassib does he just lowers his forearm and brings the ball down in that 1 video you posted. which can be easily fixed.
NOTHING like tebows.

Watch geno's motion it's damn near perfect to, he just doesn't lower the forearm like nassib does. and he doesn't drive like nassib does, which isn't a bad thing cause nassib needs to get a little more touch.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 05:12 PM
Geno's gotta make that throw to the sideline. Not impressive so far.

NJChiefs
12-29-2012, 05:16 PM
So these are the number one and four QB prospects in the draft? What a bad year for us to suck.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:17 PM
both qb's are being affected by the weather but nassib is making the better throws and his wr's just dropping them, geno looks like he's struggling with the weather and his throws more.. so far, things could change though

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:25 PM
this weather sucks, not letting either qb show off and now they just leaning towards the runs and screen passes... oh well.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:27 PM
and there's one of the knocks on geno showing it's ugly head.. pocket awarness and making a smart play rather than trying to force something

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 05:34 PM
and there's one of the knocks on geno showing it's ugly head.. pocket awarness and making a smart play rather than trying to force something

He should have checked to something else there. That's just terrible from the 1.

NJChiefs
12-29-2012, 05:36 PM
Couple of ugly throws by Nassib before the TD run.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:36 PM
ya gotta have better situational awarness there for sure. from the 1 in a pistol formation he already 5 yards deep in the endzone, and to just try to sidestep and keep his eyes downfield rather than dump it at a receivers feet or get it out of the endzone he stayed locked on and tried to sidestep 2 free rushers.

and that little dump pass by nassib he's got to complete that!

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 05:43 PM
Great job there by Geno at the line of scrimmage. Even better run by Bailey.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:45 PM
i don't think he actually changed anyting other then send him in motion. think that play was designed that way from the get go, hence the other wr's instantly turning to block for the quick slant. But regardless geno made some nice throws that drive.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 05:47 PM
i don't think he actually changed anyting other then send him in motion. think that play was designed that way from the get go, hence the other wr's instantly turning to block for the quick slant. But regardless geno made some nice throws that drive.

Yeah you're right I just watched that again.

Heck of a run by Bailey still. That was beastly for a little dude.

texaschief
12-29-2012, 05:49 PM
UGH. How anyone could think Rivers' throwing motion is better than Nassib's is laughable. The awkwardness of Rivers' throwing motion is only surpassed by Byron Leftwich and Tim Tebow... not to mention, I don't think I've EVER seen Rivers throw a spiral. I've NEVER seen a QB throw more ducks than Rivers. The only REAL positive I can say about him is that he's tall and accurate... that's about it.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 05:49 PM
agreed, i'm sold that i want either 1 of the USC stud wr's or one of the WV Stud wr's in the draft though.. Atleast 1 off either team!

texaschief
12-29-2012, 06:34 PM
Nice drive featuring Nassib. The last throw was questionable, but can't argue with the result.

NJChiefs
12-29-2012, 06:37 PM
At least Nassib LOOKS like Tom Brady... or is that Bobby Brady? Too bad the weather is what it is. We aren't getting a legitimate look here. Conservative crap, screens etc. The few downfield throws I've seen by either have either been woefully short or nowhere near the receiver.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 06:47 PM
ouch... horrible throw by nassib. not sure what he was looking at

texaschief
12-29-2012, 06:54 PM
ya, I just saw the replay... looked like he didn't look before he threw and expected his WR to be his check down and open. That was a really poor decision. Good play by the defender though. Making that catch in that weather was impressive.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 06:56 PM
Right on the money there. Hopefully Geno can half a better 2nd half.

texaschief
12-29-2012, 06:57 PM
Smith really does throw a nice deep ball. Probably the nicest deep ball that's come out of college the last few years.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 06:58 PM
Stedman Bailey is everything the Chiefs wanted McCluster to be (granted he's a bit taller).

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 06:58 PM
geno showing good audibles to running plays based off the defense front, and made some nice throws that drive. deep ball had some nice touch, a hair underthrown if the defender hadn't fallen down it would have been a fight for the ball.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:00 PM
also it does look like geno is getting more comfortable with the weather and the offense agaisnt the d

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 07:04 PM
WVU defense is so bad.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:05 PM
good i want to see wvu behind and geno having to sling the ball around.. personally i wish nassib would fling it around more too!

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 07:09 PM
Just dumb by Geno... I know you're trying to make a play at this point but that's bad...

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:09 PM
wow... situational awarness.. he just doesn't have it. and immaturity showing it's ugly head to haggle the refs like that

texaschief
12-29-2012, 07:10 PM
I think Nassib is doing a great job controlling the game. Another great drive anchored by the run game. Not a great game for QBs to show their entire skill-set, but at least we get to see how they manage the game and take care of the ball.


WOW!! What a HORRIBLE play by Geno Smith. He's had a REALLY tough time feeling pressure. Now he's throwing a fit... showing all the attitude issues I've previously raised.

NJChiefs
12-29-2012, 07:14 PM
His stock is falling. Number one pick in the draft? I think not...

texaschief
12-29-2012, 07:14 PM
Smith needs to shake this stuff off... still stewing about that SECOND safety.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:15 PM
so far this game and my first watching nassib. I would have to say you could MAYBE give a slight edge to skill set to geno, but you have to give a HUGE edge to nassib in awareness, and decision making. Outside the INT nassib has played pretty damn good game and his wr's are just dropping alot of balls.

Geno obviously has good skill set but his awareness and mentality just kill it for me. we'll see what he can do and how he can motivate his team in the 4th

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 07:16 PM
Smith needs to shake this stuff off... still stewing about that SECOND safety.

I think that last shot of him was him trying to get his team (on the benches) up and ready. Could be wrong, that's what it looked like though.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:16 PM
also what's funny is people ***** and complain that cassel is a game manager and can't put the team on his shoulders and carry them, geno making those kinds of mistakes and has the opportunity to do it now we'll see but i don't think he's got it in him to do it. He's not mental strong enough

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:17 PM
I think that last shot of him was him trying to get his team (on the benches) up and ready. Could be wrong, that's what it looked like though.

ya he was saying they are only down by 3 scores they can comeback.. lets see if he can put the team on his shoulders and do it. and that doesn't mean throwing slant passes and his wr's running for 40+ yards!

texaschief
12-29-2012, 07:18 PM
so far this game and my first watching nassib. I would have to say you could MAYBE give a slight edge to skill set to geno, but you have to give a HUGE edge to nassib in awareness, and decision making. Outside the INT nassib has played pretty damn good game and his wr's are just dropping alot of balls.

Geno obviously has good skill set but his awareness and mentality just kill it for me. we'll see what he can do and how he can motivate his team in the 4th

I agree. He's got all the tools... just doesn't have the head to match.


I think that last shot of him was him trying to get his team (on the benches) up and ready. Could be wrong, that's what it looked like though.

Yeah, that could've been. He was just shaking his head no as he walked in front of the cameras knowing they were on him.

texaschief
12-29-2012, 07:20 PM
Geez, another poor decision by Nassib. That COULD have been pic #3.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 07:21 PM
That's another awful throw from Nassib.

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:21 PM
nassib got bailed out there.... bad throw, got to drive that one

fairladyZ
12-29-2012, 07:24 PM
i think part of nassib's problem is he's trying to slow his motion down and slow the velocity down since the conditions are so bad and his wr's are having a hard time hanging on to balls. So his throws are taking longer to get there and giving the DB's a chance to break on them.

Ryfo18
12-29-2012, 07:29 PM
Just not Geno's day...

texaschief
12-29-2012, 07:32 PM
I haven't seen anything that makes me feel any different about either QB. I've seen Nassib in good weather and his throws are better, but his issues today have been decision making. If anything, I think he's improved his position in my mind from a mid-2nd round pick to an early 2nd or perhaps a VERY late 1st. I don't think Nassib is a guy you can expect to step in and be "the guy." However, I think if you drafted him and sat him behind a good QB for a year or two, he could be a franchise shouldering QB like Shaub or Rogers.

Geno Smith has had a HORRIBLE day. In a game that gave him an opportunity to disprove my concerns about his mental acumen, he's done nothing but reinforce my concerns. The other times I saw him play this year, he did seem to get sacked more than he should, holding the ball and trying to make plays. Today, Smith showed all the elite tools that has people clamoring for him at the top of the draft, but he also showed an inability to recognize pressure or feel pressure in the pocket. If his performance today doesn't have you feeling like he's a mid-to-late first round pick, you may have an unrecognized bias for the kid.

Objectively speaking, I don't think Smith would've been taken in the first round if he was in last year's QB class.

NJChiefs
12-29-2012, 07:39 PM
Agree completely with your above assessment ... except, what "elite tools" has Smith shown today?

texaschief
12-29-2012, 07:44 PM
Agree completely with your above assessment ... except, what "elite tools" has Smith shown today?

Deep ball? I don't know... I was trying to be cordial.

MyManHali
12-29-2012, 08:04 PM
Is Doug Flutie still available

swochief
12-29-2012, 08:14 PM
geno showing good audibles to running plays based off the defense front, and made some nice throws that drive. deep ball had some nice touch, a hair underthrown if the defender hadn't fallen down it would have been a fight for the ball.



He didn't fall down , should have been offensive PI.

swochief
12-29-2012, 08:19 PM
His stock is falling. Number one pick in the draft? I think not...


Agreed

MyManHali
12-29-2012, 08:20 PM
We draft Geno, end of discussion. He can throw the deep ball and has the physical tools.

If there is another qb out there better then we draft him. We need offense.

Three7s
12-29-2012, 08:35 PM
I think Nassib is doing a great job controlling the game. Another great drive anchored by the run game. Not a great game for QBs to show their entire skill-set, but at least we get to see how they manage the game and take care of the ball.


WOW!! What a HORRIBLE play by Geno Smith. He's had a REALLY tough time feeling pressure. Now he's throwing a fit... showing all the attitude issues I've previously raised.
He got mad because the Syracuse lineman tripped him. It was still really bad pocket presence, but any QB would've been pretty pissed about that.

Geno didn't have a very good game, but it doesn't change my opinion about him. Nassib is viewed as a 1st-2nd round talent and he stunk up the joint too. Holgerson didn't do him any favors either. (running the pistol on the 1-yard line, are you KIDDING ME?!)

We'll just have to wait til the Combine.

swochief
12-29-2012, 08:51 PM
No they dont draft Geno end of discussion. Chiefs play outdoors , weather can get just as bad. Buffalo , new england , Jets , pittsburgh , cleveland , cincinnati , denver all AFC outdoor sites. NFC has chicago , green bay , ny again ,philly , seattle gets alot of rain. If anything today it showed he's not good in those conditions.
Alot of his throws today were off , high , low, behind on open recievers. Saw alot of them jump or reach back at least a little on too many throws. I know every qb has those passes in games but too many were, for the amount his recievers were open in this game.
Also when it comes down to sacks Nassib would be much better in that turnover department , not that its a good one. At least he hangs onto the ball. Nassib got plastered twice i saw and kept it.
Smith lost the ball twice and fell over for a second safety in which the pass would have been intentional grounding anyway on the field of play in college and either way in the pros , just take the sack. He just is not good under pressure at all. Seen it all season , his recievers have bailed him out alot.
As for the deep pass for their 2nd td, it was a pretty ball but it was just a lob pass , thats all it was.
I'm not completely against geno , just no way w/ the first pick. Even w/ the salary cap.
As far as i'm concerned based off this game both him and Nassib are pretty much equal. Give Nassib the skill players Geno had and i bet that game would have been worse.

Three7s
12-29-2012, 10:14 PM
No they dont draft Geno end of discussion. Chiefs play outdoors , weather can get just as bad. Buffalo , new england , Jets , pittsburgh , cleveland , cincinnati , denver all AFC outdoor sites. NFC has chicago , green bay , ny again ,philly , seattle gets alot of rain. If anything today it showed he's not good in those conditions.
Alot of his throws today were off , high , low, behind on open recievers. Saw alot of them jump or reach back at least a little on too many throws. I know every qb has those passes in games but too many were, for the amount his recievers were open in this game.
Also when it comes down to sacks Nassib would be much better in that turnover department , not that its a good one. At least he hangs onto the ball. Nassib got plastered twice i saw and kept it.
Smith lost the ball twice and fell over for a second safety in which the pass would have been intentional grounding anyway on the field of play in college and either way in the pros , just take the sack. He just is not good under pressure at all. Seen it all season , his recievers have bailed him out alot.
As for the deep pass for their 2nd td, it was a pretty ball but it was just a lob pass , thats all it was.
I'm not completely against geno , just no way w/ the first pick. Even w/ the salary cap.
As far as i'm concerned based off this game both him and Nassib are pretty much equal. Give Nassib the skill players Geno had and i bet that game would have been worse.
He was TRIPPED on the 2nd safety! Last time I checked, that's a personal foul and NOT HIS FAULT!

swochief
12-29-2012, 10:22 PM
He was TRIPPED on the 2nd safety! Last time I checked, that's a personal foul and NOT HIS FAULT!


okay i just saw the replay of it and i will give that it was a trip , but it
makes up for the OBVIOUS OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE ON WV 2ND TD. :meow:

not his fault either and wasn't called.

chiefnut
12-29-2012, 11:03 PM
i think it was fairly obvious that Geno's performance did not scream "pick me #1 overall" and nassib just fell to round 5 or later

texaschief
12-29-2012, 11:07 PM
Y'all... you can trip ball carriers ALL DAY LONG. The only time tripping becomes a problem is if you use your legs to trip a defender and keep him from making a play. How many times do you see defenders diving for ball carriers legs? This is a dumb argument.

Besides, before he got TACKLED, he retreated 10 yards into the end zone... he should've had enough awareness not to put himself in that situation.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 01:31 AM
This game didn't do anything and the conditions had a lot to do with it. But Geno has a lot to prove that wonderlic , or whatever its caleed, test is what I'm waiting for. For someone who is such a football nerd, he sure has poor pocket awareness.

You Geno fans have to admit this game did zero for your case.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 01:33 AM
This game didn't do anything and the conditions had a lot to do with it. But Geno has a lot to prove that wonderlic , or whatever its caleed, test is what I'm waiting for. For someone who is such a football nerd, he sure has poor pocket awareness.

You Geno fans have to admit this game did zero for your case.

AussieChiefsFan
12-30-2012, 04:10 AM
True but he usually has quite good pocket awareness.

Three7s
12-30-2012, 04:21 AM
Y'all... you can trip ball carriers ALL DAY LONG. The only time tripping becomes a problem is if you use your legs to trip a defender and keep him from making a play. How many times do you see defenders diving for ball carriers legs? This is a dumb argument.

Besides, before he got TACKLED, he retreated 10 yards into the end zone... he should've had enough awareness not to put himself in that situation.
Diving for a ball carriers legs with their arms and hands is completely different because they aren't being engaged. That would be called a tackle. Being engaged with another lineman and just sticking out your leg SHOULD be called tripping. If it were legal, every lineman would do it on every run play!

I don't think I've ever seen any lineman just stick out their leg to stop a play......ever.

texaschief
12-30-2012, 06:57 AM
Diving for a ball carriers legs with their arms and hands is completely different because they aren't being engaged. That would be called a tackle. Being engaged with another lineman and just sticking out your leg SHOULD be called tripping. If it were legal, every lineman would do it on every run play!

I don't think I've ever seen any lineman just stick out their leg to stop a play......ever.

Then you don't watch enough football. (Which isn't surprising considering you think Geno Smith is worth the #1 pick) You've never seen a defender, being blocked, reach out with his hand and trip up a running back? If you're a defender and you're engaged with another player, it DOES NOT MATTER if you stick your arm, leg, tongue, or hair out to trip the ball carrier.

NCAA rule 9-1-2-c: Tripping is intentionally using the lower leg or foot to obstruct an opponent below the knees.

NCAA rule 9-1-3-c: Tripping the ball carrier is NOT a penalty.

The only way a defender can be penalized for using his leg is if he's in the act of maliciously KICKING the opponent.

There's literally NO difference between sticking your leg out and sticking your arm out to stop a ball carrier. What did you think was happening when you hear announcers say, "he got tripped up coming through the line?" What? Did million dollar athletes suddenly get two left feet?

DMN
12-30-2012, 09:23 AM
I just can't see Smith as first overall pick value... I agree that QB is our #1 need. But we would do well to remember that desperation clouds judgement.

Just because we NEED smith to be 1rst overall value doesn't mean he is.

Here is a hypothetical scenario... Say Albert and Bowe walk. And KC is handcuffed in FA (like always, small market - 2-14 team) and can't bring any notable free agents. After his play today and pocket presence is this the guy for a Boweless WR corp and an Albertless O line?

I think at that point (and what I think even if we do retain those 2). We draft best player at 1. and go QB at 2.

Three7s
12-30-2012, 11:23 AM
Then you don't watch enough football. (Which isn't surprising considering you think Geno Smith is worth the #1 pick) You've never seen a defender, being blocked, reach out with his hand and trip up a running back? If you're a defender and you're engaged with another player, it DOES NOT MATTER if you stick your arm, leg, tongue, or hair out to trip the ball carrier.

NCAA rule 9-1-2-c: Tripping is intentionally using the lower leg or foot to obstruct an opponent below the knees.

NCAA rule 9-1-3-c: Tripping the ball carrier is NOT a penalty.

The only way a defender can be penalized for using his leg is if he's in the act of maliciously KICKING the opponent.

There's literally NO difference between sticking your leg out and sticking your arm out to stop a ball carrier. What did you think was happening when you hear announcers say, "he got tripped up coming through the line?" What? Did million dollar athletes suddenly get two left feet?
Nice one, but the only reason I want Geno Smith is because I think he's the best QB in the draft, and if you haven't noticed, QBs go #1, even if they aren't BPA. (Cam Newton)

I watch plenty of football, thank you, oh and this is interesting....

Section 39 Tripping
TRIPPING
Tripping is the use of the leg or foot in obstructing any opponent (including a runner) (12-1-5 c).

Taken off the NFL.com rulebook.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf

Bike
12-30-2012, 01:01 PM
Nice one, but the only reason I want Geno Smith is because I think he's the best QB in the draft, and if you haven't noticed, QBs go #1, even if they aren't BPA. (Cam Newton)

I watch plenty of football, thank you, oh and this is interesting....

Section 39 Tripping
TRIPPING
Tripping is the use of the leg or foot in obstructing any opponent (including a runner) (12-1-5 c).

Taken off the NFL.com rulebook.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf
Not only do I not think Smith is not the best qb in the draft, I don't think of him as even a first round pick. Early 2nd maybe.

Three7s
12-30-2012, 01:46 PM
Not only do I not think Smith is not the best qb in the draft, I don't think of him as even a first round pick. Early 2nd maybe.
Then who is? Tyler Wilson?

Bike
12-30-2012, 01:48 PM
Then who is? Tyler Wilson?
This draft is a terrible year for qb's imo. I don't see a qb worth taking with the number one overall pick.

Three7s
12-30-2012, 01:51 PM
This draft is a terrible year for qb's imo. I don't see a qb worth taking with the number one overall pick.
Cam Newton wasn't worth the #1 overall either according to pundits.

Bike
12-30-2012, 02:00 PM
Cam Newton wasn't worth the #1 overall either according to pundits.
Yeah. I agree. I'd say that Wilson, Smith, Barkley, Bray, Glennon, Murray, Klein, Jones, Boyd, Manuel all have some potential - but none of them worthy of a number 1 pick imo. As far as the best qb of the draft, it's probably Smith.

MissingTBone
12-30-2012, 02:11 PM
If we don't spend money to bring in depth and solidify our O line it won't matter if Jesus Christ gets drafted as our qb he won't have any luck. Uess a qb really steps it up from now to the combine we need to draft bpa with number 1. Get a good qb with number 2, OR just draft bpa this draft and hope for a better qb class next season. I don't want to be forced into taking a qb that is gonna be another bust when we have plenty of needs in this team.

texaschief
12-30-2012, 03:02 PM
Nice one, but the only reason I want Geno Smith is because I think he's the best QB in the draft, and if you haven't noticed, QBs go #1, even if they aren't BPA. (Cam Newton)

I watch plenty of football, thank you, oh and this is interesting....

Section 39 Tripping
TRIPPING
Tripping is the use of the leg or foot in obstructing any opponent (including a runner) (12-1-5 c).

Taken off the NFL.com rulebook.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf

I guess you forgot Smith wasn't playing in the NFL yesterday...

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 03:17 PM
Then who is? Tyler Wilson?

Dude you are seriously deft or you just like arguing. Most of us feel we take the best player available with the number one pick if it can be traded. We pick number 33 which is pretty much a first round pick and either trade back into the first or take our qb with that #33 pick. And Tyler Wilson at 33 I'm good with.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 03:22 PM
If we don't spend money to bring in depth and solidify our O line it won't matter if Jesus Christ gets drafted as our qb he won't have any luck. Uess a qb really steps it up from now to the combine we need to draft bpa with number 1. Get a good qb with number 2, OR just draft bpa this draft and hope for a better qb class next season. I don't want to be forced into taking a qb that is gonna be another bust when we have plenty of needs in this team.

Yeah the 2014 draft is supposedly qb heavy.

texaschief
12-30-2012, 03:22 PM
The top 5 QBs in this class are so interchangeable that you could take the 5th best QB at #33 overall and be just as well off at that position as if you had taken a QB #1 overall.

Bike
12-30-2012, 03:35 PM
The top 5 QBs in this class are so interchangeable that you could take the 5th best QB at #33 overall and be just as well off at that position as if you had taken a QB #1 overall.
Correct.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Cam Newton wasn't worth the #1 overall either according to pundits.

Cam newton 6 and 10 last year and at best 6 and 10 this year. Yeah great job.

matthewschiefs
12-30-2012, 04:18 PM
We draft Geno, end of discussion. He can throw the deep ball and has the physical tools.

If there is another qb out there better then we draft him. We need offense.

Why? He barly had a winning record in College why should I think he will be any better in the NFL where it's tougher to win games? There's more to playing QB then "he can throw the deep ball"

MissingTBone
12-30-2012, 04:44 PM
Cam newton 6 and 10 last year and at best 6 and 10 this year. Yeah great job.

Cam Newton can't help his team play defense. But IMO he is a good qb who will become more of a winner when he gets some good pieces around him. If anyone think a rookie qb is gonna step in and fix all the problems we have here then they're dreaming.

MyManHali
12-30-2012, 04:45 PM
Why? He barly had a winning record in College why should I think he will be any better in the NFL where it's tougher to win games? There's more to playing QB then "he can throw the deep ball"


Are you still on the Te'o warpath after seeing this offense all year?

This is the worst offense I have ever seen.

Geno has played well against good competition and has the physical tools. If there is something mentally wrong with him then we move on to the next product.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 04:48 PM
Cam Newton can't help his team play defense. But IMO he is a good qb who will become more of a winner when he gets some good pieces around him. If anyone think a rookie qb is gonna step in and fix all the problems we have here then they're dreaming.

Carolina's offense is 17 and Carolina's DEFENSE IS 8. Defense is is in the top 10 bro.

matthewschiefs
12-30-2012, 04:49 PM
Are you still on the Te'o warpath after seeing this offense all year?

This is the worst offense I have ever seen.

Geno has played well against good competition and has the physical tools. If there is something mentally wrong with him then we move on to the next product.

Where did I mention Teo

I just want you to explain why it's so clear to draft a QB who can barly have a winning record in college and think he will be just the fix in the NFL

Bike
12-30-2012, 04:49 PM
Cam Newton can't help his team play defense. But IMO he is a good qb who will become more of a winner when he gets some good pieces around him. If anyone think a rookie qb is gonna step in and fix all the problems we have here then they're dreaming.
Look at what Wilson is doing in Seattle. It can happen.

MyManHali
12-30-2012, 04:50 PM
Where did I mention Teo

I just want you to explain why it's so clear to draft a QB who can barly have a winning record in college and think he will be just the fix in the NFL


He is capable, and was a good qb in college. He has all the physical tools, and if his head is on straight we draft him.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 04:51 PM
In total yards.

matthewschiefs
12-30-2012, 04:52 PM
He is capable, and was a good qb in college. He has all the physical tools, and if his head is on straight we draft him.

so 7-6 is good enough for you now?

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 04:55 PM
Are you still on the Te'o warpath after seeing this offense all year?

This is the worst offense I have ever seen.

Geno has played well against good competition and has the physical tools. If there is something mentally wrong with him then we move on to the next product.

Quit making up that he played good competition he played one good team (kstate), and played two okay teams (Texas and Oklahoma). As soon as he got to the meat of the big 12 schedule he fell off. Big 12 is down big big big.

MyManHali
12-30-2012, 04:56 PM
Quit making up that he played good competition he played one good team (kstate), and played two okay teams (Texas and Oklahoma). As soon as he got to the meat of the big 12 schedule he fell off. Big 12 is down big big big.



His numbers and play were good against good competition.

matthewschiefs
12-30-2012, 04:57 PM
His numbers and play were good against good competition.

But he couldn't get the wins that's a little more important then "good numbers" don't you think

MyManHali
12-30-2012, 05:05 PM
so 7-6 is good enough for you now?



23 touchdowns 5 interceptions and averaging 328 yards against big 12 competition is enough for me, assuming his head is on straight we take him.

fairladyZ
12-30-2012, 05:19 PM
his #'s are greatly inflated though since most of his yards are YAC, he threw alot of short screens and short passes and his all pro receivers went insane with them.

I'm not saying his skill set isn't high but it's greatly inflated. His % is high because he has 1 read and locks on and it's a high percentage throw. Those luxuries will not be in the NFL for him especially on this team. So it's going to be dink and dunk just like we do now and all the fans throw fits about. So unless we do something DRASTIC and get huge playmakers then geno won't sniff success at all on this team. Geno isn't even the best player on his team. Austin and Bailey made geno what he is and made his numbers.

MyManHali
12-30-2012, 05:19 PM
But he couldn't get the wins that's a little more important then "good numbers" don't you think



No, I would draft talent and ability over winning in college. How many national titles did Eli win? BCS Bowls?

If you want to draft based on winning, then ken Dorsey, Chris Leak, Tim Tebow, Matt Flynn are all right up your alley (And of course I would take Tom Brady, but that is one in a million)

I also don't consider 7-6 a failing season. If he as the talent to be a productive player in the NFL you take him, it also happens to be the BIGGEST NEED position for us.

So yes, talent and ability are more important than wins.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 05:40 PM
His numbers and play were good against good competition.

Not against kstate. Very very bad.

matthewschiefs
12-30-2012, 05:43 PM
Not against kstate. Very very bad.

Don't mention the things the Geno butt kissers don't want to talk about that's just not fair lol

texaschief
12-30-2012, 06:19 PM
23 touchdowns 5 interceptions and averaging 328 yards against big 12 competition is enough for me, assuming his head is on straight we take him.

Yeah, but most of that was against Baylor. :lol:


He also lost 6 of his last 8 games this year after beating up on the non-conference teams to start the year and Baylor. The two he won were against KU and ISU.

Geno Smith wasn't a big player as the top QB heading into the season. It took a monster start to the season against some pretty weak opponents for him to become relevant.

This franchise isn't going to immediately be a Super Bowl contender no matter who we bring in. Yesterday, I saw how Geno Smith responded to a losing situation. If the Chiefs don't immediately start winning, it could become a problem for Smith and his attitude towards the team. I wonder if that attitude had anything to do with why they lost all but two of their last 8 games.

nigeriannightmare
12-30-2012, 06:26 PM
23 touchdowns 5 interceptions and averaging 328 yards against big 12 competition is enough for me, assuming his head is on straight we take him.

You do realize he only played three ranked teams and only best one of them and Texas is pretty mediocre. So I don't know how you think the big 12 is good competition. Only played one top 10 team and they made him look bad.

Bike
12-30-2012, 06:29 PM
Yeah, but most of that was against Baylor. :lol:


He also lost 6 of his last 8 games this year after beating up on the non-conference teams to start the year and Baylor. The two he won were against KU and ISU.

Geno Smith wasn't a big player as the top QB heading into the season. It took a monster start to the season against some pretty weak opponents for him to become relevant.

This franchise isn't going to immediately be a Super Bowl contender no matter who we bring in. Yesterday, I saw how Geno Smith responded to a losing situation. If the Chiefs don't immediately start winning, it could become a problem for Smith and his attitude towards the team. I wonder if that attitude had anything to do with why they lost all but two of their last 8 games.
Unworthy of the number 1 pick in the draft. If he's there at 33 - take him.

Three7s
12-30-2012, 10:58 PM
Quit making up that he played good competition he played one good team (kstate), and played two okay teams (Texas and Oklahoma). As soon as he got to the meat of the big 12 schedule he fell off. Big 12 is down big big big.
Oklahoma was just "okay"? They were top 20 in defense in the nation and Geno destroyed them. He had three questionable games in the regular season. Those being Texas Tech, TCU, and Kstate. He was good against the others, other than Syracuse.

If anyone wants to bash the record, then they should be bashing the defense, which was horrid.

swochief
12-31-2012, 11:51 AM
Oklahoma was just "okay"? They were top 20 in defense in the nation and Geno destroyed them. He had three questionable games in the regular season. Those being Texas Tech, TCU, and Kstate. He was good against the others, other than Syracuse.

If anyone wants to bash the record, then they should be bashing the defense, which was horrid.



I'm a Sooner fan and their pass D has been way over rated for a few years now. Get burned on the deep pass way too often. They've been biting too hard on play action also.
M. Stoops is back so it should get better.
I'll say that he did make some nice throws in the game but on others the defense was out of position.

MyManHali
12-31-2012, 11:56 AM
You do realize he only played three ranked teams and only best one of them and Texas is pretty mediocre. So I don't know how you think the big 12 is good competition. Only played one top 10 team and they made him look bad.


Texas is a top 15 team, how is that mediocre?

MyManHali
12-31-2012, 11:59 AM
Don't mention the things the Geno butt kissers don't want to talk about that's just not fair lol



Matt Ryan 142 yds 1 td 1 int against non ranked NC st. Atlanta shouldn't of drafted him, right?

Who cares if Geno didnt play well one game, he has the talent and ability.

MyManHali
12-31-2012, 12:04 PM
MAtt Ryan also played against a garbage schedule and didnt have better numbers than Geno.

But atlanta drafted him, why? Because of his ability. Geno has played a legit schedule and played well.

I have said it before, if there is a better qb prospect then we take him, I don't know anything about Geno Smith off the field. If there is a problem we go elsewhere.

swochief
12-31-2012, 12:13 PM
MAtt Ryan also played against a garbage schedule and didnt have better numbers than Geno.

But atlanta drafted him, why? Because of his ability. Geno has played a legit schedule and played well.

I have said it before, if there is a better qb prospect then we take him, I don't know anything about Geno Smith off the field. If there is a problem we go elsewhere.


geno also plays in a very qb friendly system. Coach came from OK St. Not alot of their qbs are in the pros as starters. They are better than the T Tech system qbs tho.
does this mean geno won't be all you believe?
No it doesn't , I just don't see it.

MyManHali
12-31-2012, 12:48 PM
geno also plays in a very qb friendly system. Coach came from OK St. Not alot of their qbs are in the pros as starters. They are better than the T Tech system qbs tho.
does this mean geno won't be all you believe?
No it doesn't , I just don't see it.


I want the best QB available. It doesn't have to be Geno, but when people blindly say "Well what about the K st game" it gets irritating. He has proven he can play great against good competition.

70 chiefsfan70
12-31-2012, 01:46 PM
I want the best QB available. It doesn't have to be Geno, but when people blindly say "Well what about the K st game" it gets irritating. He has proven he can play great against good competition.


I agree! We need in a bad way the very best available, I think right now that is Geno. There is still lots of time for someone to rise and be the front runner. I don't see anyone in the fa market even close to what I see in Geno. It would be foolish to trade and give up alot for someone say like Kirk Cousins. We could fill other holes and get better backups , but if we don't get a good passer we will have wasted yet another season. I'm sick of wasting our good talent to seasons that are lost before we start.

We need the best, the very best Qb available. I say draft 2 qb's in the first 3 rounds. I don't care what his name is.............

whackojacko58
12-31-2012, 02:47 PM
Glennon looks bad at his bowl game

nigeriannightmare
12-31-2012, 02:50 PM
You keep saying he played good competition the only good team he played was kstate and looked like crap.

nigeriannightmare
12-31-2012, 02:52 PM
i
Texas is a top 15 team, how is that mediocre?

Okay what top 20 teams did Texas beat then? And Oklahoma for that matter. Overrated because of who they are. Texas is a mediocre football team at the moment.

Ryfo18
12-31-2012, 03:02 PM
i

Okay what top 20 teams did Texas beat then? And Oklahoma for that matter. Overrated because of who they are. Texas is a mediocre football team at the moment.

Oregon State

MyManHali
12-31-2012, 04:58 PM
i

Okay what top 20 teams did Texas beat then? And Oklahoma for that matter. Overrated because of who they are. Texas is a mediocre football team at the moment.


Are you saying big 12 is not legit competition? If not, I am guessing the only qb we can draft is from the SEC? The top 3 rookie qbs this year (Luck, RG3, Wilson) did not play better competition than what Geno played this year.

matthewschiefs
12-31-2012, 05:16 PM
Are you saying big 12 is not legit competition? If not, I am guessing the only qb we can draft is from the SEC? The top 3 rookie qbs this year (Luck, RG3, Wilson) did not play better competition than what Geno played this year.

Aaron Murray wouldn't be a bad choice out of the SEC he has one BAD game against Old miss and anther so so game against Florida but outside of that he had a rating of over 100 in every game including one against Alabama Don't think he would be a bad option at all. And Tony Dungy said in an interview on the Dan Patrick show a while back he would look at him number 1 overall that's not a bad person to say that for a QB.

fairladyZ
12-31-2012, 05:39 PM
murray is staying for 1 more year and will most likely be #1 QB going in next years draft so we would almost have to secure the #1 pick next year or pull a redskins and give up the farm for him, if we can even do that since if a team is sold on him in a weak QB class they most likely won't budge

MyManHali
12-31-2012, 06:19 PM
Aaron Murray wouldn't be a bad choice out of the SEC he has one BAD game against Old miss and anther so so game against Florida but outside of that he had a rating of over 100 in every game including one against Alabama Don't think he would be a bad option at all. And Tony Dungy said in an interview on the Dan Patrick show a while back he would look at him number 1 overall that's not a bad person to say that for a QB.


We don't know if he will be coming out this year.

texaschief
12-31-2012, 08:51 PM
If Murray is projected to go #1 overall in a better draft class next year, wouldn't it be safe to assume he'd be among the top 2 or 3 in this class if not #1 overall after all evaluations are said and done? I'm not as high on Murray as I am on Wilson, but I think he would go in the first round.

swochief
12-31-2012, 09:51 PM
No one knows if he is staying or coming out.
Probably depends on how he does in the bowl game and what he thinks Georgia will do next year , title game shot or not.

nigeriannightmare
01-01-2013, 03:16 AM
Are you saying big 12 is not legitthe competition? If not, I am guessing the only qb we can draft is from the SEC? The top 3 rookie qbs this year (Luck, RG3, Wilson) did not play better competition than what Geno played this year.

The PAC 10 and big ten are better than the big 12 and dude rgiii won the Heisman last year when the big 12 still had mizzou and Texas a and m and ok st findhed in the top 3. So. I'm not understanding your comparison here at all. Geno played in he big east last year which is barely even a conference this year. Sooooo I'm lost. Russel Wilson, Andrew luck, rg 3 played much stiiffer competition and may not have the stats but are LEADERS, Geno is a blood sign flashing thug. I don't think you all understand the importance of this no matter the circumstance. I have lived in the inner city I know the blood sign I know bloods. The only reason you flash this sign is to indicate that there are people to protect you. You are not a leader you are a coward.

Ryfo18
01-01-2013, 05:09 AM
The PAC 10 and big ten are better than the big 12 and dude rgiii won the Heisman last year when the big 12 still had mizzou and Texas a and m and ok st findhed in the top 3. So. I'm not understanding your comparison here at all. Geno played in he big east last year which is barely even a conference this year. Sooooo I'm lost. Russel Wilson, Andrew luck, rg 3 played much stiiffer competition and may not have the stats but are LEADERS, Geno is a blood sign flashing thug. I don't think you all understand the importance of this no matter the circumstance. I have lived in the inner city I know the blood sign I know bloods. The only reason you flash this sign is to indicate that there are people to protect you. You are not a leader you are a coward.

How can you even call the PAC 10 better than the Big 12 after Baylor spanked UCLA and Texas beat Oregon State? USC also lost to an ACC team today...

Three7s
01-01-2013, 10:37 AM
How can you even call the PAC 10 better than the Big 12 after Baylor spanked UCLA and Texas beat Oregon State? USC also lost to an ACC team today...
And the big 10 being better than the big 12 is laughable too.

How many wins does Wisconsin have?

NJChiefs
01-01-2013, 10:47 AM
Geno is a blood sign flashing thug. I don't think you all understand the importance of this no matter the circumstance. I have lived in the inner city I know the blood sign I know bloods. The only reason you flash this sign is to indicate that there are people to protect you. You are not a leader you are a coward.

Agreed. There are few things that a person whom I have never met has to do only once, which to me says something deep seated and disturbing about his/her character. This would be one of them.

nigeriannightmare
01-01-2013, 11:26 AM
And the big 10 being better than the big 12 is laughable too.

How many wins does Wisconsin have?

WHat does that have to do with the price of tea in china??? Oklahoma under achieved Texas under achieved. Pretty sure Ohio st is 12 and 0. Because UCLA lost a bowl game to Baylor and Wisconsin has 7 wins that makes the big 12 and Big 10 weaker than the big 12. Okay fine Geno smith is the best qb and has played superior competition to any of the other qbs. I will concede that. But playing QB in the NFL is more than just having the talent.

but like I have said and will continue to say until proved wrong he is mentally weak. I would love for you to go to the city and flash a blood and see what the Eff happens.

nigeriannightmare
01-01-2013, 11:33 AM
How can you even call the PAC 10 better than the Big 12 after Baylor spanked UCLA and Texas beat Oregon State? USC also lost to an ACC team today...

Yeah you are right the AP poll, Ohio state can't be ranked in the other 2, has a whopping 2 teams from the big 12 where as the PAC 12 and big 10 have four each.

Ryfo18
01-01-2013, 03:08 PM
Yeah you are right the AP poll, Ohio state can't be ranked in the other 2, has a whopping 2 teams from the big 12 where as the PAC 12 and big 10 have four each.

Polls are irrelevant. Why? Like I just said, two unranked Big 12 teams took care of two ranked PAC 12 teams. Unranked Baylor took #17 UCLA to the woodshed. You're going to try to convince me those teams are still better because they have a number in front of them? Please.

Kansas State gets a piece of Oregon too so we'll see if the Big 12 can make it 3-0.

nigeriannightmare
01-01-2013, 04:37 PM
Polls are irrelevant. Why? Like I just said, two unranked Big 12 teams took care of two ranked PAC 12 teams. Unranked Baylor took #17 UCLA to the woodshed. You're going to try to convince me those teams are still better because they have a number in front of them? Please.

Kansas State gets a piece of Oregon too so we'll see if the Big 12 can make it 3-0.

UCLA had little to no hype as did Oregon state from what i recall. Texas West Virginian and Oklahoma were all supposed to contend. If its not a BCS bowl I really don't care. Mizzou beat Arkansas in the cotton bowl a few years ago in no way is the big 12 even in the same playing field as the SEC.

Schools in bowl games often have key players and coach's that have taken jobs elsewhere. There just isn't the same fire as pre BCS. College bowl games have kinda become a joke but I guess we can say the big 12 beat the PAC 10 in at least one obscure bowl. Lets see what happens in the kstate oregon game.

nigeriannightmare
01-05-2013, 12:41 AM
How can you even call the PAC 10 better than the Big 12 after Baylor spanked UCLA and Texas beat Oregon State? USC also lost to an ACC team today...

THE TOP 2 TEAMS OUT OF THE BIG 12 GOT THEIR ASSES WHIPPED AND WHIPPED IS BEING NICE.

brdempsey69
01-05-2013, 11:20 AM
Guys, these Bowl games and whatever happens in them, don't change the fact that the Chiefs need a quality QB to come from somewhere.

With Andy Reid now the HC, it's highly doubtful that he'll take Te'o with their first pick given the sad state of the Chiefs QB situation and their sad-sack Offense in general.

Bike
01-05-2013, 11:52 AM
Guys, these Bowl games and whatever happens in them, don't change the fact that the Chiefs need a quality QB to come from somewhere.

With Andy Reid now the HC, it's highly doubtful that he'll take Te'o with their first pick given the sad state of the Chiefs QB situation and their sad-sack Offense in general.
Is there a qb worth taking with the 1st pick?

brdempsey69
01-05-2013, 12:00 PM
Is there a qb worth taking with the 1st pick?

Perhaps not, but maybe they might be able to trade down a few slots and take a QB that they like. But, they won't be taking Te'o with the 1st pick. It would more likely be Jarvis Jones or Star if they stay at #1 and go Defense or possibly the LT Joeckel ( Albert has a bad back & they probably will not put a franchise tag on him ). It depends if someone wants to trade up to #1.

Bike
01-05-2013, 12:37 PM
Perhaps not, but maybe they might be able to trade down a few slots and take a QB that they like. But, they won't be taking Te'o with the 1st pick. It would more likely be Jarvis Jones or Star if they stay at #1 and go Defense or possibly the LT Joeckel ( Albert has a bad back & they probably will not put a franchise tag on him ). It depends if someone wants to trade up to #1.
I like the idea of upgrading out OL with the first pick and best QB available with the 2nd. And hopefully find another QB in FA.

Ryfo18
01-05-2013, 12:51 PM
I like the idea of upgrading out OL with the first pick and best QB available with the 2nd. And hopefully find another QB in FA.

2nd round QBs rarely, rarely ever work out. The only one I can think of is Brees, and he had question marks like Russell Wilson. Why is this? QB is the most important position on the field. If a guy has the look of a solid QB, he goes in the 1st round.

So if there is a guy out there, we need to take him with the 1st overall pick.

Bike
01-05-2013, 01:28 PM
2nd round QBs rarely, rarely ever work out. The only one I can think of is Brees, and he had question marks like Russell Wilson. Why is this? QB is the most important position on the field. If a guy has the look of a solid QB, he goes in the 1st round.

So if there is a guy out there, we need to take him with the 1st overall pick.
1st round maybe - but not 1st pick of the 1st round.

brdempsey69
01-05-2013, 01:32 PM
2nd round QBs rarely, rarely ever work out. The only one I can think of is Brees, and he had question marks like Russell Wilson. Why is this? QB is the most important position on the field. If a guy has the look of a solid QB, he goes in the 1st round.

So if there is a guy out there, we need to take him with the 1st overall pick.

I don't think I've ever seen a combine more critical to the Chiefs than this one upcoming.

As for 2nd round QB's, Dalton and Kaepernick could be added to that list.

You can almost bet the farm that they won't be taking Te'o at #1. Not with Andy Reid as the HC. He places a premium on QB's, O-Lineman, WR's, D-Lineman, and CB's.

QB and Offense in general is the biggest need for the Chiefs.

Bike
01-05-2013, 01:35 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a combine more critical to the Chiefs than this one upcoming.

As for 2nd round QB's, Dalton and Kaepernick could be added to that list.

You can almost bet the farm that they won't be taking Te'o at #1. Not with Andy Reid as the HC. He places a premium on QB's, O-Lineman, WR's, D-Lineman, and CB's.

QB and Offense in general is the biggest need for the Chiefs.
Our offense is pretty sad. We need receivers, Olinemen, and Qb's. That whole offense needs to be rebuilt.

brdempsey69
01-05-2013, 01:42 PM
Our offense is pretty sad. We need receivers, Olinemen, and Qb's. That whole offense needs to be rebuilt.

Couldn't agree more. Regarding Joeckel, it's been said he has a similar skillset to Joe Thomas and many have rated him as one of the top 5 players in the country, although I do think Stephenson has shown potential to be a very good LT if he can continue to improve.

This is going to be very interesting this off-season leading up to the draft & it's already gotten off to good start with the HC issue being settled by Clark so swiftly and decisively.

nigeriannightmare
01-05-2013, 02:53 PM
2nd round QBs rarely, rarely ever work out. The only one I can think of is Brees, and he had question marks like Russell Wilson. Why is this? QB is the most important position on the field. If a guy has the look of a solid QB, he goes in the 1st round.

So if there is a guy out there, we need to take him with the 1st overall pick.

A bit weird if you ask me. I did some digging and only three qbs taken in the second round of the last 3 drafts.

Osweiler-2012
Kaepernick and daulton-2011
None in 2010

Go back three more and i think it's only four but of those four I think only chad henne still plays. Percentage wise you would be correct but the sample size is pretty small.

AkChief49
01-05-2013, 03:03 PM
2nd round QBs rarely, rarely ever work out. The only one I can think of is Brees, and he had question marks like Russell Wilson. Why is this? QB is the most important position on the field. If a guy has the look of a solid QB, he goes in the 1st round.

So if there is a guy out there, we need to take him with the 1st overall pick.
Is it just 2nd rounders or non 1st rounders in general?

Here is a list of QB's with multiple Superbowl starts picked at or after the 2nd round:

Tom Brady-6th round pick
Joe Montana-3rd round pick
Roger Stauhbach-10th round pick
Kurt Warner-undrafted
Fran Tarkenton-3rd round pick
Bart Starr-17th round pick
Joe Theismann-4th round pick
Brett Favre-2nd round pick

A list of all QB's that started and won a superbowl picked in the 2nd or later round:

Bart Starr-17th
Johnny U.-9th
Roger Staubach-10th
Ken Stabler-2nd
Joe Montana-3rd
Joe Theismann-4th
Jeff Hosteler-3rd
Mark Rypien-6th
Brett Favre-2nd
Kurt Warner-undrafted
Tom Brady-6th
Brad Johnson-9th
Drew Brees-2nd

List of other QB's that started and lost a superbowl(picked 2nd or later round):

Daryle Lamonica-24th
Joe Kapp-18th
Fran Tarkenton-3rd
Vince Ferragamo-4th
Ron Jaworski-2nd
Ken Anderson-3rd
David Woodley-8th
Boomer Esiason-2nd
Stan Humphries-6th
Neil O'Donnell-3rd
Chris Chandler-3rd
Rich Gannon-4th
Jake Delhomme-undrafted
Matt Hasselbeck-6th

Just a list, but there are some pretty good qb's that were not a first round pick.

Ryfo18
01-05-2013, 04:50 PM
Is it just 2nd rounders or non 1st rounders in general?

Here is a list of QB's with multiple Superbowl starts picked at or after the 2nd round:

Tom Brady-6th round pick
Joe Montana-3rd round pick
Roger Stauhbach-10th round pick
Kurt Warner-undrafted
Fran Tarkenton-3rd round pick
Bart Starr-17th round pick
Joe Theismann-4th round pick
Brett Favre-2nd round pick

A list of all QB's that started and won a superbowl picked in the 2nd or later round:

Bart Starr-17th
Johnny U.-9th
Roger Staubach-10th
Ken Stabler-2nd
Joe Montana-3rd
Joe Theismann-4th
Jeff Hosteler-3rd
Mark Rypien-6th
Brett Favre-2nd
Kurt Warner-undrafted
Tom Brady-6th
Brad Johnson-9th
Drew Brees-2nd

List of other QB's that started and lost a superbowl(picked 2nd or later round):

Daryle Lamonica-24th
Joe Kapp-18th
Fran Tarkenton-3rd
Vince Ferragamo-4th
Ron Jaworski-2nd
Ken Anderson-3rd
David Woodley-8th
Boomer Esiason-2nd
Stan Humphries-6th
Neil O'Donnell-3rd
Chris Chandler-3rd
Rich Gannon-4th
Jake Delhomme-undrafted
Matt Hasselbeck-6th

Just a list, but there are some pretty good qb's that were not a first round pick.

That's fine and all, but the only active player on that list is Tom Brady who was drafted 12 years ago. Since then there has been much more emphasis placed on the QB position as the league has gotten ridiculously pass happy.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that recent history would tell us that all of the good QBs are going to get scooped up in the 1st round (Russell Wilson being one of the few exceptions).

brdempsey69
01-05-2013, 05:07 PM
That's fine and all, but the only active player on that list is Tom Brady who was drafted 12 years ago. Since then there has been much more emphasis placed on the QB position as the league has gotten ridiculously pass happy.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that recent history would tell us that all of the good QBs are going to get scooped up in the 1st round (Russell Wilson being one of the few exceptions).

People's Exhibit A:

2011 draft -- Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder.

It's going to come down to who Andy Reid likes best when the combine and the individual workouts are said and done & whether or not he feels he needs to stay put and pull the trigger on his guy or maybe he has two guys neck & neck and he feels he can trade down a few slots and get one of those guys. Time will tell.

N TX Dave
01-05-2013, 05:17 PM
Don't forget our pick in the second round is the second pick so not that far from the first round, 34th pick.

AkChief49
01-05-2013, 06:20 PM
That's fine and all, but the only active player on that list is Tom Brady who was drafted 12 years ago. Since then there has been much more emphasis placed on the QB position as the league has gotten ridiculously pass happy.



I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that recent history would tell us that all of the good QBs are going to get scooped up in the 1st round (Russell Wilson being one of the few exceptions).



I see what you are saying. But there are a lot of prolific passers on that list.




The 1st round QB trail is littered with a lot of busts too!
Ryan Leaf
Jamarcus Russell
Todd Marinovich
Andre Ware
Heath Shuler
Cade McNown
Jim Druckenmiller
Matt Leinhart
Joey Harrington
Todd Blacklege

to name a few. Value can be had . It may not be the Ferrari you wanted, but a dependable pickup will get you there.
How's Matt Shaub doing by the way?

Ryfo18
01-05-2013, 07:04 PM
I see what you are saying. But there are a lot of prolific passers on that list.




The 1st round QB trail is littered with a lot of busts too!
Ryan Leaf
Jamarcus Russell
Todd Marinovich
Andre Ware
Heath Shuler
Cade McNown
Jim Druckenmiller
Matt Leinhart
Joey Harrington
Todd Blacklege

to name a few. Value can be had . It may not be the Ferrari you wanted, but a dependable pickup will get you there.
How's Matt Shaub doing by the way?

We're all aware of the busts. I'm sorry though, that should not stop the Chiefs at all from drafting a QB if they think they have their guy.

Here's the list of 2nd round QBs taken between Brees and Favre (bothy 2nd rounders):

Quincy Carter (Cowboys), 2001 - 34 starts
Marques Tuiasosopo (Raiders), 2001 - 2 starts
Shaun King (Bucs), 1999 - 24 starts
Charlie Batch (Lions), 1998 - 53 starts
Jake Plummer (Cardinals) - 136 starts
Tony Banks (Rams), 1996 - 78 starts
Todd Collins (Bills), 1995 - 21 starts
Kordell Stewart (Steelers), 1995 - 87 starts, career 77:84 TD-to-INT ratio
Matt Blundin (Chiefs), 1992 - 0 starts
Tony Sacca (Cardinals), 1992 - 0 starts

Here's the list taken after Brees:

Andy Dalton (Bengals), 2011
Colin Kaepernick (49ers), 2011
Jimmy Clausen (Panthers), 2010
Pat White (Dolphins), 2009
Brian Brohm (Packers), 2008
Chad Henne (Dolphins), 2008
Kevin Kolb (Eagles), 2007
John Beck (Dolphins), 2007
Drew Stanton (Lions), 2007
Kellen Clemens (Jets), 2006
Tarvaris Jackson (Vikings), 2006

Source: http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/40340/60/2nd-round-qb-success-rate

Now just count the names on those two lists versus the list you provided...

Any way you try to swing it, you have a much much much much better chance of getting a Good QB in the 1st round. The 2nd rounders have about a 10% success rate.

MissingTBone
01-05-2013, 11:33 PM
At this point I'd almost rather use our picks for other areas of need, and draft our qbotf next year when hopefully the qb class is better. Pick up a veteran (maybe Hasselbeck) and a second stringer to get through 2013. At this point I'm not sold on any of the qbs coming out. But then again I'm no expert, or scout.

MissingTBone
01-05-2013, 11:35 PM
At this point I'd almost rather use our picks for other areas of need, and draft our qbotf next year when hopefully the qb class is better. Pick up a veteran (maybe Hasselbeck) and a second stringer to get through 2013. At this point I'm not sold on any of the qbs coming out. But then again I'm no expert, or scout.
And ouch, did you HAVE to bring up Blackledge??

Three7s
01-06-2013, 11:48 AM
At this point I'd almost rather use our picks for other areas of need, and draft our qbotf next year when hopefully the qb class is better. Pick up a veteran (maybe Hasselbeck) and a second stringer to get through 2013. At this point I'm not sold on any of the qbs coming out. But then again I'm no expert, or scout.
It's not going to be better next year.

brdempsey69
01-06-2013, 01:26 PM
It's not going to be better next year.


That's exactly right. You are not going to have those "tilt the field" type QB prospects like Luck and RG III coming out every year.

It's just not something they can afford to wait on. They have to address the QB issue THIS off-season. Delaying it, does no good whatsoever.

A quality QB has to come from somewhere.

MyManHali
01-06-2013, 09:57 PM
At this point I'd almost rather use our picks for other areas of need, and draft our qbotf next year when hopefully the qb class is better. Pick up a veteran (maybe Hasselbeck) and a second stringer to get through 2013. At this point I'm not sold on any of the qbs coming out. But then again I'm no expert, or scout.
And ouch, did you HAVE to bring up Blackledge??


Andy Reid will find someone this year in the draft, first pick or not. Have faith.

MissingTBone
01-06-2013, 10:19 PM
So next years draft is already spelled out? Who's gonna be the top qb coming out next year? Whats his record gonna be?? Do we desperately need a qb? Yes but we shouldn't act desperate.next years draft will have 5 guys that are basically even with no real stand out? If you have all that info you prob wanna buy a lottery ticket. We DO need help in other areas. It's not like we're gonna be contending for even division title next year. We're at least a couple years away from getting over the Pioli era. Bpa with our first unless we can trade out makes most sense to me.