Go Ravens !!

[brdempsey69]

I hope they upset the Donks in Denver today.

I've always said that Denver never has won a SB outright and had those 2 in '97 and '98 given to them as a going-away present to their crybaby, buck-toothed, turd-out-of-back-pocket pulling QB named Elway because he wasn't good enough to win one outright.

[Lewis_Chiefs]

I hate Denver as much as the next Chiefs fan but to question the ability that Elway had as a quarterback is ridiculous.

Anyway, come on Ravens !!

[brdempsey69]

I hate Denver as much as the next Chiefs fan but to question the ability that Elway had as a quarterback is ridiculous.

Anyway, come on Ravens !!


Incorrect. He was not good enough to win the Super Bowl outright & that was proven repeatedly throughout his career -- especially in 1996 when the Donks had home-field advantage & the Jags beat them and it was because Elway choked in that game.

I watched him play his entire career & can tell you for a fact that for the 1st 10 years of his career, he looked more like a baseball-pitcher trying to play QB, then a real QB and that he often was more lucky than good.

I can easily name 25 other QB's that I would take over him, but the top guy would of course be Joe Montana. Elway was never in Montana's class & anybody who thinks so does not have a clue about what they are talking about. I watched the entire careers of both players, and can tell you that if you were able to take a QB in his prime and put him on your football team, you'd be an utter fool to take anyone other than Montana.

[whackojacko58]

I think you just like causing arguments with anyone you can dempsey

[brdempsey69]

I think you just like causing arguments with anyone you can dempsey

No, and not in this case, certainly. I know what I'm saying & I can easily provide one example after another.

[matthewschiefs]

Don't really like the ravens but I will cheer them against the donkeys anyday

[brdempsey69]

Tied at halftime 21-21.

C'mon Ravens, you can do it !!!

[brdempsey69]

Does Baltimore know the meaning of the term "kick coverage"?

[matthewschiefs]

Looks like the screw job is on

[Chiefster]

Officials bailing out Payton Manning. Make no mistake Denver wins this game.

[brdempsey69]

Officials bailing out Payton Manning. Make no mistake Denver wins this game.

It ain't over, yet. I'm not conceding anything to Denver, especially with the Ravens track record of winning playoff games on the road with Flacco at QB.

[N TX Dave]

I agree the ref are going to make sure Manning wins. I am so tired of the announcers all they are talking about is how great Manning and Lewis are like there is no one else playing. The announcers told me who was going to win earlier when they said we are watching Lewis' last game then the other announcer added unless they win.

[matthewschiefs]

Peytons boys just got him anther td. this is a joke

[matthewschiefs]

HA HA donkeys even with help can't beat the ravens

[brdempsey69]

What do you know about that !! The Ravens tied it with time running short. Those 2 kick return TD's by the Donks are what has kept them in contention, more so than Manning.

[Chiefster]

Manning gets to stay home! Woohoo!

[brdempsey69]

THEY DID IT !! Great job Ravens !!

I had told people that Denver wasn't going to win any SB's, even with Manning at QB. They never did win any to begin with. They had them given to them in '97 and '98 & anyone who buys into the line of thinking that they won those two SB's outright can be likened to a 2-yr old toddler eating mashed pears from a Thomas-the-Train spoon.

[matthewschiefs]

Tim Tebow 1st donkeys playoff game throws a game winning td

Douchebag Mannings Throws game losing INT

Karma Donkeys Karma just bit you in the ***

[N TX Dave]

Manning gets to stay home! Woohoo!

I do not believe it Bronco's loose. That is almost as good as the Chiefs winning not as good but close. Can you say Broncos are one and done?
:yahoo::beat_DeadHorse::densux::bounce016:

[brdempsey69]

Not a bad start to 2013, eh?

I mean the Chiefs get Reid as their HC, get rid of Pigoli, and Donks are one & done.

I don't believe that Bowlen is going to be able to pull any strings with the league office to have another SB given to him & his Donks like he did in '97 and '98.

[matthewschiefs]

Not a bad start to 2013, eh?

I mean the Chiefs get Reid as their HC, get rid of Pigoli, and Donks are one & done.

I don't believe that Bowlen is going to be able to pull any strings with the league office to have another SB given to him & his Donks like he did in '97 and '98.


They tried to give it to the donks Peyton just gave it back he's an overrated qb. He's good but his 9-11 record stops him from being in the discussion of GOAT

[brdempsey69]

They tried to give it to the donks Peyton just gave it back he's an overrated qb. He's good but his 9-11 record stops him from being in the discussion of GOAT

I had heard that Montana is still the leader in post-season victories, but Brady has a chance to pass him.

The same holds true for Elway, regarding what you said about Manning being good, but not in the discussion for "greatest of all time".

[matthewschiefs]

I had heard that Montana is still the leader in post-season victories, but Brady has a chance to pass him.

The same holds true for Elway, regarding what you said about Manning being good, but not in the discussion for "greatest of all time".

IMO Elway is ahead of Manning on the list since Manning had far more to work with at WR no matter how much some of the media wants to try to pretend he did it alone. But Elway's not close to Montana either. Brady is close but until he passes Montana in rings he can't be number 1

[nigeriannightmare]

IMO Elway is ahead of Manning on the list since Manning had far more to work with at WR no matter how much some of the media wants to try to pretend he did it alone. But Elway's not close to Montana either. Brady is close but until he passes Montana in rings he can't be number 1

There is no contest when it comes to Montana. 4 and 0 in the Super Bowl. Debate over. Even if Brady does pass him he has lost twice.

[brdempsey69]

There is no contest when it comes to Montana. 4 and 0 in the Super Bowl. Debate over. Even if Brady does pass him he has lost twice.

That's right & only Terry Bradshaw of Pittsburgh can challenge Montana in that area, as he was also 4-0.

[nigeriannightmare]

That's right & only Terry Bradshaw of Pittsburgh can challenge Montana in that area, as he was also 4-0.

Yessir. And terry Bradshaw won when defenses could literally try to kill you.

[whackojacko58]

How bout them broncos lol feels like a win for the chiefs

[nigeriannightmare]

I can't wait to hear all the back tracking on Monday on ESPN. Green Bay got beat the eff down and Peyton was playoff Peyton, man does he choke when it really counts. How does he do so well in the regular season and just lay eggs in the playoffs. You take away the two 100 yard returns and that game isn't close.

[kcvet]

chumped

http://oi46.tinypic.com/119s2mf.jpg

:D

[N TX Dave]

chumped

http://oi46.tinypic.com/119s2mf.jpg

:D

It looks like there are a lot of empty club level (middle) seats in this photo. How could that be?
:donkssuck::densux:

[nigeriannightmare]

It looks like there are a lot of empty club level (middle) seats in this photo. How could that be?
:donkssuck::densux:

Apparently Denver fans are like Peyton, don't like it when the weather dips below 40. They are all huddled inside yelling at a TV.

[drstandley31]

That was so Friggin awesome! I can't talk today I was yelling so hard. If there can't be a chiefs win, a Donks loss is the next best thing. Wow did they set the bar and expectations high, only to fall flat. loved it.

[brdempsey69]

This should not come as any surprise to anyone regarding the Donks losing. Historical fact: teams that have lost 4 SB's have not made it back. The '97 & '98 Donks do NOT count. I'm telling you, it was rigged to give Elway a going-away present. Here's part of the proof:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

Also, consider this: Does anyone really believe for a moment that if the Chiefs ( specifically Marty ) really wanted to win that '97 playoff game against Denver, that they would have kept Rich Gannon on the sideline for that entire game, let alone not be the starter? No way.

[N TX Dave]

Bowlen said in a written statement released Thursday by the Broncos that the club gained no competitive advantage from these cap violations.

BS didn't help him win my butt. He keep better players instead of cutting some to get under the cap.

[brdempsey69]

Bowlen said in a written statement released Thursday by the Broncos that the club gained no competitive advantage from these cap violations.

BS didn't help him win my butt. He keep better players instead of cutting some to get under the cap.

Let us also not forget, the easy schedules they were given in '97 and '98 that allowed them to get off to 7-0 starts both years ( they did not have to play one single team in their park that had been in the post-season the year before in the 1st half of either of those seasons -- the Chiefs did ), the horrendous officiating that went in their favor countless times, the massive holding & illegal chop blocks that they got away with allowing Terrell Davis to rack up big rushing numbers ( when this was taken away from them in 1999, defenders were able get off Denver blockers and they beat the hell out of Davis & ended his career in 1999 ).

And yet, I recall seeing a TV commercial that had Elway bragging about "winning" two SB's. He and Bowlen have about as much integrity as 5-day old dog doo-doo.

[AkChief49]

Do not forget the fact that the donks added to the cheating when they played us in that playoff game. Vaseline on the jerseys.........

The Fine Art of Getting Away With It - Los Angeles Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/20/sports/sp-cheathow20)

[Chiefster]

Do not forget the fact that the donks added to the cheating when they played us in that playoff game. Vaseline on the jerseys.........

The Fine Art of Getting Away With It - Los Angeles Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/20/sports/sp-cheathow20)

I remember that, they showed them wiping down their jerseys with a rag. As if that was going to rectify the situation.

[kcvet]

and stickum on the fingers

[Chiefster]

Yeah, but all things things aren't against any rules until they get caught and they edit the rule book. NFL history is chuck full of instances of "thinking outside the box" and teams got away with it because there were no rules against it.

[kcvet]

it was a good game. right???

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1254005/deckerno_medium.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1996881/chargers70.gif

my hair looks good

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1379125/chargers71.gif

[Eydugstr]

I remember that, they showed them wiping down their jerseys with a rag. As if that was going to rectify the situation.

+1. That's the way that whole game went. Markbrieght should've been ejecting people until they came back with clean jerseys. In cold weather like that, that stuff will not just "wipe off" with a towel on the sideline. The officiating was just awful the whole game, they let Denver get away with anything. At one point, late in the game, KC's offense got into a huddle and a Denver defensive lineman walked over within earshot of the huddle, not one official said anything!!

KC shot itself in the foot by not sticking with Gannon, and the goofy reluctance to run Greg Hill (Hill always ran well against the Donks), but the refs really did a number on that game.

[Chiefster]

+1. That's the way that whole game went. Markbrieght should've been ejecting people until they came back with clean jerseys. In cold weather like that, that stuff will not just "wipe off" with a towel on the sideline. The officiating was just awful the whole game, they let Denver get away with anything. At one point, late in the game, KC's offense got into a huddle and a Denver defensive lineman walked over within earshot of the huddle, not one official said anything!!

KC shot itself in the foot by not sticking with Gannon, and the goofy reluctance to run Greg Hill (Hill always ran well against the Donks), but the refs really did a number on that game.

Yup, we were never, ever going to win that game.

[rbedgood]

I can easily name 25 other QB's that I would take over him,

...been a while, but I lurk occasionally still. This comment was just too much and I had to respond. 25?? HAHAHAHA...dude, you just went from biased to ignorant with that statement. Elway can be accused of not being able to carry a team through the playoffs on his own back, but where most people rank him in the top 5, I agree that is way too high...but down to 26 or lower? Seriously, he was an arrogant, spoiled Stanford snob...but he's at least in the top 15 all time still.

I definitely put the following guys in front of him (not necessarily in order)

Montana, Brady, Manning(P), Unitas, Marino, Young, Otto Graham, Staubach (yeah even a 49er fan will admit he's top 10), Favre, Tarkenton, Warner & Starr...

Arguments could be made for Bradshaw, Moon, Kelly, Dawson, Tittle & Fouts...but even as an Elway hater you are hard-pressed to include many (any) from this 2nd list and you are stretching beyond bias....so which 6 more are you adding to the list to get to 25?

[brdempsey69]

...been a while, but I lurk occasionally still. This comment was just too much and I had to respond. 25?? HAHAHAHA...dude, you just went from biased to ignorant with that statement.

HAHAHAHA....The ignorance is all on your side. Read on.


Elway can be accused of not being able to carry a team through the playoffs on his own back, but where most people rank him in the top 5, I agree that is way too high...but down to 26 or lower? Seriously, he was an arrogant, spoiled Stanford snob...but he's at least in the top 15 all time still.


According to whom? The neighbors dog that his fans and media have been humping up over him for nearly 3 decades? Are you one of those? Marty sure sounded like he was when he made the retarded statement that Elway was best QB ever, in spite of having coached Joe Montana for 2 seasons.



I definitely put the following guys in front of him (not necessarily in order)

Montana, Brady, Manning(P), Unitas, Marino, Young, Otto Graham, Staubach (yeah even a 49er fan will admit he's top 10), Favre, Tarkenton, Warner & Starr...


Examine your statement in bold a little bit more closely. You say you have those guys ranked ahead of Elway & yet you call someone else ignorant because they have 25 or more that they'd prefer ahead of him? I'd suggest you look long and hard in the mirror -- you're liable to find the "'ignorant" finger pointing right back at you with your name tattooed on it.



Arguments could be made for Bradshaw, Moon, Kelly, Dawson, Tittle & Fouts...but even as an Elway hater you are hard-pressed to include many (any) from this 2nd list and you are stretching beyond bias....


That's a crock of BS. Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls OUTRIGHT!!! There isn't ANY "hard-pressing" there. As for Moon, Kelly, Dawson, Tittle, Fouts, nobody would be hard pressed to rank any of those guys ahead Elway. All of them put up better passing numbers their first 10 years than Elway did his first 10 & against better opponents overall collectively as Denver generally had easy schedules throughout Elway's career.

Stretching beyond bias? You're aching Aunt Fannie's a$$ !!



....so which 6 more are you adding to the list to get to 25?

I can double that easily. Here they are:

Norm Van Brocklin
George Blanda
Sid Luckman
Joe Namath
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Joe Theismann
Sonny Jurgenson
Bob Griese
Troy Aikman
Roman Gabriel
Sammy Baugh
John Brodie
Ken Anderson

Like I said, the ignorance is all on your side.

[Chiefster]

I love this thread.

[rbedgood]

bdempsey, you're bias shows through loud and clear. I agree with you that Elway is far over-rated, but you are listing a bunch of guys who were barely pro-bowl caliber players to double the list. Elway, whether you like it or not is a Hall of Fame QB. Frankly he did more for his team, than Aikman did for his. Elway was one of the best players on his team year in and year out...maybe 1-2 better on any Broncos rosters he was part of?! Whereas Aikman wasn't even on the top 5 of the Cowboys rosters at any point....

Griese, Blanda and Stabler slipped my mind, and I would agree with those 3...so yeah, he's not top 15, probably closer to 20ish...but if you want to talk about over-rated QBs, Namath has to make that list too.

End of the day we're arguing over semantics...we both agree Elway was over-rated. I shouldn't have called you ignorant, but putting Elway outside the top 25 seems over-the-top to me. I would still have him around 15, but can see arguments for 20-22 based on the player lists you provided. I admit a few of those players were guys I didn't think of, and most I dismissed as I disagree with you.

[Chiefster]

bdempsey, you're bias shows through loud and clear. I agree with you that Elway is far over-rated, but you are listing a bunch of guys who were barely pro-bowl caliber players to double the list. Elway, whether you like it or not is a Hall of Fame QB. Frankly he did more for his team, than Aikman did for his. Elway was one of the best players on his team year in and year out...maybe 1-2 better on any Broncos rosters he was part of?! Whereas Aikman wasn't even on the top 5 of the Cowboys rosters at any point....

Griese, Blanda and Stabler slipped my mind, and I would agree with those 3...so yeah, he's not top 15, probably closer to 20ish...but if you want to talk about over-rated QBs, Namath has to make that list too.

End of the day we're arguing over semantics...we both agree Elway was over-rated. I shouldn't have called you ignorant, but putting Elway outside the top 25 seems over-the-top to me. I would still have him around 15, but can see arguments for 20-22 based on the player lists you provided. I admit a few of those players were guys I didn't think of, and most I dismissed as I disagree with you.

Agreed, even with his Super Bowl win.

[KristofLaw]

I can't wait to hear all the back tracking on Monday on ESPN. Green Bay got beat the eff down and Peyton was playoff Peyton, man does he choke when it really counts. How does he do so well in the regular season and just lay eggs in the playoffs. You take away the two 100 yard returns and that game isn't close.

What with the Elway debate raging on I thought I might add that within even Peyton's household I'd think there are some who think he is ranked third amongst Archie's boys on the field. If not for an injury his older brother, many thought, would have been the standout Manning... and with Eli showing Peyton what a winner looks like in the clutch... :D :D

[brdempsey69]

bdempsey, you're bias shows through loud and clear. I agree with you that Elway is far over-rated, but you are listing a bunch of guys who were barely pro-bowl caliber players to double the list. Elway, whether you like it or not is a Hall of Fame QB. Frankly he did more for his team, than Aikman did for his. Elway was one of the best players on his team year in and year out...maybe 1-2 better on any Broncos rosters he was part of?! Whereas Aikman wasn't even on the top 5 of the Cowboys rosters at any point....

Griese, Blanda and Stabler slipped my mind, and I would agree with those 3...so yeah, he's not top 15, probably closer to 20ish...but if you want to talk about over-rated QBs, Namath has to make that list too.

End of the day we're arguing over semantics...we both agree Elway was over-rated. I shouldn't have called you ignorant, but putting Elway outside the top 25 seems over-the-top to me. I would still have him around 15, but can see arguments for 20-22 based on the player lists you provided. I admit a few of those players were guys I didn't think of, and most I dismissed as I disagree with you.

Fair enough. All I ask is to give me the chance to explain where I am coming from, before tagging me as "ignorant" -- one loses credibility doing that. Now as for bias goes, you know that works both ways, as evidenced by those that call Elway the greatest QB, ever. I'd still prefer all those guys listed over him. I could also add Joe Kapp and a unknown named Greg Cook ( shoulder injury derailed his career ) to that list. The leadership provided by those two was off the scale.

I wouldn't say Namath was overrated. He could throw that football as well as any QB who ever played. His problem was his knee injuries & the fact that opposing defenders were always looking to beat the hell out of him. By Namath's 4th season in 1968, he became more than a great passer & became very good overall QB. The thing to remember is that Namath called his own plays -- in SB III, he called more than 50% at the line of scrimmage. Elway didn't call all his own plays. He didn't even look like a true QB until '93 when Jim Fassell became his OC & prior to that Ron Jaworski ( there's another one that I'd add to my list ) had criticized Elway's overall mechanics.

Bottom line, to me, is when a player has to have the type of concessions made for him the way it was done for Elway in '97 and '98 ( and I could go on and on with one example after another ), then he's not a true champion -- he's a f***ing loser. None of the other QB's we've listed would have ever wanted that -- consider that & you get the idea that my preferring those other QB's over Elway may not be as biased as one might initially think as those other QB's played on a level playing field 100% of the time and that cannot be truthfully said about Elway.

I will give Elway his due as a GM. He's done a pretty good job there getting them turned around & he certainly has done a better job of drafting than Pioli did ( although that's not saying much ), and every other GM in the AFC West over the last 2 years.

[Eydugstr]

I started out as a Broncos fan, after living in Denver for awhile. Elway is revered as a god there, but the final turn off for me was all the BS surrounding the separation between Reeves and Elway. Reeves did a lot of work building those teams, and in the end people treated him like the bad guy.

A lot of people forget Elway had a lot of mediocre seasons, too (for ex. the Wade Wilson years).

[rbedgood]

bdempsey...sorry about the use of the word ignorant...I could've made my point without attacking you personally, and as the old-timers around here can attest, that isn't how I would normally approach it.

That being said, yeah, lets agree to disagree. My bias will show through on a top 5 list, as not only do I still keep Montana on top, I have a hard time dropping Young below #4...yeah I know most put him somewhere 7-10.

Would be fun to have threads where we debated top 10 all time at various positions...since we started QB here, I'll try to sort mine (since I didn't earlier)...

1) Montana
2) Brady
3) J Unitas
4) Steve Young
5) P Manning
6) Dan Marino
7) Bart Starr
8) Brett Favre (INT anyone?)
9) Fran Tarkenton
10) Kurt Warner

[N TX Dave]

Roger Staubach
Otto Graham
Sammy Baugh

I submit should be considered also especially before Kurt Warner and Fran.

[70 chiefsfan70]

Yeah!!!!!!



Go Ravens

[Chiefster]

bdempsey...sorry about the use of the word ignorant...I could've made my point without attacking you personally, and as the old-timers around here can attest, that isn't how I would normally approach it.

That being said, yeah, lets agree to disagree. My bias will show through on a top 5 list, as not only do I still keep Montana on top, I have a hard time dropping Young below #4...yeah I know most put him somewhere 7-10.

Would be fun to have threads where we debated top 10 all time at various positions...since we started QB here, I'll try to sort mine (since I didn't earlier)...

1) Montana
2) Brady
3) J Unitas
4) Steve Young
5) P Manning
6) Dan Marino
7) Bart Starr
8) Brett Favre (INT anyone?)
9) Fran Tarkenton
10) Kurt Warner

I like this list.

[rbedgood]

Roger Staubach
Otto Graham
Sammy Baugh

I submit should be considered also especially before Kurt Warner and Fran.

I thought about Graham on the list, but Staubach and Baugh were outside my top 10 for sure. To me Warner is the antithesis of Namath, Bradshaw or Elway...unlike these 3, Warner is under-rated by most people, rather than over-rated.

[Guru]

Yep Go Ravens.

That makes me ill saying it too.

[Chiefster]

Yep Go Ravens.

That makes me ill saying it too.


:lol: Same here, and as much as I loath the idea I find myself wanting Lewis to go out with a bang.


...No disrespect to rbedgood :smile

[KristofLaw]

I think I'll end up cheering on Flacco since it looks like Ray-Ray's gonna get a second ring. On the Niner's I just disagree that Kaepernick is a superbowl level QB. . . sure he got there with the Niners but he isn't the reason they are there. I'd feel more comfortable with them winning and Alex Smith being the headlined qb of their team even if it's in a riding the bench story-line.

49ers win and it's like when Baltimore won it last time or the Bucs... no QB. Just my two cents.