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texaschief
01-14-2013, 06:50 PM
If you haven't been around long, then you probably don't know... I try to do one of these "offseason plans" at the end of each season. I usually do a mock free agency along with a mock draft based on the assumption that I get the guys I want in free agency.

A little about my philosophy: In free agency, I want younger talent. I'm looking for guys who are coming off their rookie contract or looking for their 3rd contract at the most... anyone older than 28 has to be a special talent with proven longevity, a good locker room presence, and willing to be a mentor.

In the draft, I use the first 2-4 rounds as an extension of free agency. Any holes I haven't plugged in free agency, I try to address in the first 3 rounds of the draft. After the 3rd round, I'm usually looking for the best player on the board... someone with raw ability who can be groomed to be a starter in the future.

So, let's get started.

The Chiefs have hired offense-minded Andy Reid as their new head coach. John Dorsey is their new General Manager and they've tagged Bob Sutton as their next DC. What we know from this group is that Reid likes an offense built around the pass and enjoys having mobile QBs. We know the Chiefs have a desperate need at the QB position and the #1 pick in the draft.

The scary hire was Bob Sutton. The Chiefs have spent a TON of resources building on the defensive side of the ball. Now, they've hired an offensive HC and a DC who didn't do too well as the DC for the Jets under Mangini. His schemes are bland, no blitzes, poorly designed, and never ranked higher than 16th overall. The Chiefs defense is a unit without a direction and being that Sutton has experience in the Tampa 2 4-3, the 2 gap 3-4, and now the 1 gap 3-4, he seems to be a Defensive Coordinator without a direction as well. This all leads me to believe there won't be too much attention given to the defensive side of the ball.

I COULD be wrong however because Andy Reid has a history of taking CBs and pass-rushing DEs in free agency and the draft. This could be a good thing considering Tyson Jackson is scheduled to make $14m in 2013 and is a prime target to be cut. The Chiefs also have a need at CB depth as well as at Safety. The Chiefs will also need at least one ILB and may also need to bring in another OLB depending on which defensive scheme they settle on. Glenn Dorsey is also scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent.

On the flip side, outside of the QB position, the Chiefs will also be looking at WRs with a decision needing to be made on Dwayne Bowe who's scheduled to be an UFA, evaluations needed on Breaston, Baldwin, McCluster, and the rest of the corp in order to effectively address the situation. There's also a decision that needs to be made in regards to Branden Albert who is scheduled to be an UFA as well. The offensive line has substantial depth, but letting Albert walk may require replacing him with a free agent or with the #1 overall pick. The loss of Ryan Lilja shouldn't do much to hurt the O-line, but the next man up needs to be backed up. The offensive line has always been a priority for Andy Reid and this year should be no different.

So, let's dive into the free agent pool. Top priority: QB
Not too many options here. With the Chiefs perhaps bringing in Sporano as the O-line coach, one has to wonder if Matt Moore gets a chance to come in and compete. Assuming Flacco doesn't hit the free agent market after taking his team to the AFC Championship (so far), the FA talent pool is MUCH shallower than the extremely shallow QB draft class.

Offensive Line: The Sporano connection rears its head again. The Chiefs have concerns about Branden Albert's back and what they can expect from him on a long-term deal. Ryan Clady will be the biggest name scheduled to be an UFA, but there's no way Manning allows one of the best pass protectors in the game to walk. The next big name on the list of UFAs is none other than former top pick by the Dolphins, Jake Long. Long also has injury concerns but may be enticed to come play in KC. Andy Levitre is the top OG scheduled to hit the free agent market. Contract talks have gone nowhere in the past between he and the Bills and may get the chance to hit the open market.

WRs: Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, and Mike Wallace headline the WR crop this season. With the new offense being pass-heavy, I just don't see Reid allowing Bowe to walk. Bowe will be extended and Dorsey will reel in Greg Jennings. With Baldwin and Breaston filling out #3 and #4, the Chiefs will boast one of the best WR corps in the league and will provide the new QB plenty of weapons with which to destroy his opponent.

TEs: Jared Cook is one of, if not THE most athletic TEs in the league. He has almost ZERO interest in returning to Tennessee and with the new offense centered around the pass in KC, Cook could see this team as a very big opportunity for him to finally break out.

DL: The Chiefs DL will take a hit this year. Jackson will probably not be here. There's a good chance Dorsey won't have much interest in returning. The defensive side of the ball is going to be the hardest for us to fill out considering that I don't think the Chiefs staff has any idea what defense they want to run yet. I'm going to go out on a limb (where I'm sure I'll be all by myself) and say the Chiefs are going to run a 1-gap 3-4. I realize this is a defense Reid has never run. However, I think this is the defense that the Chiefs are currently best-suited for with Sutton seeing the success Ryan had with it in NY. If the Chiefs run this defense, they have Hali and Houston at DE and Poe inside with DJ at LB. That means they need 3 LBs to fill out the defense. So, there isn't too much need along the DL except for random depth which could be filled by the guys currently on the roster, with late picks in the draft, or free agents after the draft. This defense is the same ran in New York with the Giants AND Jets. Osi Umenyiora is a top pass rushing DE that may hit the FA market. He is 6'3 255 and runs a 4.7 40. Hali is 6'3 270 with a 4.7 40 and Houston is 6'3 258 with a 4.6 40. These guys can handle the position.

LBs: Anthony Spencer, Phillip Wheeler, Shaun Phillips, and Manny Lawson are the top names on the LB FA market. The Cowboys franchised Spencer last season and Phillips is 31. If they can get one of these guys, I think they'll be in good shape.

CBs: Chris Houston, Aqib Talib, Leodis McKelvin, Sean Smith, and Dominique Rogers-Cromartie are the top names of the CB FA class. Chris Houston would be my first choice. Talib will probably go back to NE after they win the Super Bowl. I could see this staff going after Rogers-Cromartie from Philly or maybe Sam Shields from Green Bay even though he'll be a RFA.

S: The Chiefs need a safety who's reliable to put next to Berry in the defensive backfield. Top names on the market are Jairus Byrd, Dashon Goldson, Kenny Phillips, William Moore, Pat Chung, and Loius Delmas. Reid isn't known for spending assets on safeties, so I wouldn't expect much from him at this position. Byrd would be a nice addition, but he'll cost a pretty penny.



So, here's what I'd do:

Release Tyson Jackson
Let Dorsey Walk
Let Albert Walk
Re-sign Bowe
Re-sign Pitoitua

Free Agent Signings:

QB- Matt Moore
WR- Gregg Jennings
TE- Jared Cook
OG- Andy Levitre
LB- Phillip Wheeler
CB- Dominique Rogers-Cromartie

Trades:

Swap 4th rounders with Seattle for QB Matt Flynn

Seattle's 4th rounder to Baltimore for QB Tyrod Taylor


Draft:

1st Round
LT Luke Joekel Texas A&M

The Chiefs replace Branden Albert with a less expensive upgrade in Luke Joekel. They get better value with this pick than if they had decided to take a QB #1 overall. Joekel fits into a line that boasts Jon Asamoah, Rodney Hudson, Andy Levitre, and Eric Winston with depth provided by in Stephenson and Allen.

2nd Round
ILB Alec Ogletree Georgia

Ogletree would look GREAT next to DJ inside. Ogletree is a DJ clone. Great sideline to sideline defender with elite speed. He may not be available here, but if he gets passed the Bengals, I think he'll slide. This pick helps with the LB overhaul done by the organization because of their shift from the 2-gap to a 1-gap 3-4.

3rd Round
3a. OLB Alex Okafor Texas
The Chiefs need one more LB for their overhaul and the OLB out of Texas was the lone bright spot on an underwhelming defense. If Okafor is still available in the 3rd, he could be a a steal for the Chiefs.

3b. (compensation for Carr) WR/QB Denard Robinson Michigan

There are worse things to draft late in the 3rd than a play-making athlete who has played the QB position. No one thought Russell Wilson could win the job at QB either.

4th Round *Traded

5th
DB Tyrann Mathieu

Off the field issues should not scare anyone away from top 5 talent in the 5th round. We need another play-maker in the secondary and you couldn't ask for a better one than the "Honey Badger" in the 5th round. (**may be worth a higher pick as we get closer to the draft)

6th Round
QB Logan Thomas Virginia Tech

I know... off the radar, right? Check this out: 6'6 240lb. Bigger than Big Ben, Joe Flacco, and Cam Newton. Newton runs a 4.58, Thomas a 4.67, and Ben a 4.78. Make no mistake, he's definitely a project. Ranked 108 in comp% and 8th in turnovers with a longer than you'd like throwing motion. He'll probably sit for a year or two to refine his craft before he truly competes to be the starter, but if he puts the pieces together, his talent could make him a star. There are worse ways to spend a 6th round pick.

7th Round
A.J. Klein ILB Iowa State

More LB depth for the Chiefs' switch in defensive scheme.


The QB situation heading into OTAs:
(in alphabetical order)
Denard Robinson (Probably WR)
Logan Thomas (Probably project)
Matt Cassel (Probably cut)
Matt Flynn
Matt Moore
Ricky Stanzi
Tyrod Taylor

WRs:
Jennings, Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, McCluster, Hemingway, Newsome, Wylie, *Robinson

RBs: Charles, Draughn, Gray, McCluster

O-Line: Joekel, Asamoah, Hudson, Levitre, Winston, Cook, Moeaki

D-Line: Hali, Poe, Houston, Powe, Pitoitua, Bailey

LBs: Johnson, Ogletree, Wheeler, Okafor

CBs: Flowers, Rogers-Cromartie, Arenas

S: Berry, Matheiu

I know it's probably not "big splash" approach to the QB position all of us want, but there's just no clear-cut answer for the Chiefs at #1 overall. There are injury questions about Albert and a VERY good LT option worth the #1 overall pick. Allowing Albert to walk clears up more space to sign some key free agents. If the Chiefs are able to turn a 4th round pick into two QBs who can come compete for the position, I think that's great value for that pick. Tyrod Taylor is a younger Mike Vick. If a mobile QB is what Reid wants, I think the better option is to go get a Tyrod Taylor or Pat White with a later round draft pick trade than wasting the first pick on Geno Smith. I think there's at LEAST an average, short-term solution in that group of QBs that could afford the Chiefs a different opportunity to fill the position long-term in the future.

Think about this for a second: Mike Vick, Tyrod Taylor, Geno Smith, Pat White, Josh Freeman, Jason Campbell, Logan Thomas, E.J. Manual, and Donovan McNabb could all be available to the Chiefs by way of draft, trade, or free agent signing this winter. All of them possess similar attributes. Think about what each of those QBs may cost compared to what they'd bring to the Chiefs and honestly assess which QB presents the greatest value. I'm sorry, but I look at that group of QBs and I just don't see one name that separates himself from the rest of the pack. So why would Geno Smith be worth the #1 overall pick when you could have any of the other guys for MUCH less.




So, there it is... rip it to shreds like y'all do every year. :chiefs:

matthewschiefs
01-14-2013, 06:53 PM
I like every free agent but Moore just not sold on him. I also think that it will take more then a 4th rounder to get Flynn from the Seahawks. Backup qbs are far more valuable then what they use to be. But I like the thought of getting him

slc chief
01-14-2013, 08:06 PM
so you have the chiefs once again not getting a qb in the draft (6 th rounder come on). and picking up other teams chewed up recycled qb's . hello thats why we are picking with the #1 pick

KCCF
01-15-2013, 05:48 AM
so you have the chiefs once again not getting a qb in the draft (6 th rounder come on). and picking up other teams chewed up recycled qb's . hello thats why we are picking with the #1 pick

Gonna have to agree. No qb except someone we would have to wait 2-3 more years instead of just getting someone who can compete right away.

jap1
01-15-2013, 07:25 AM
Just want to clarify, do you think Seattle will give up Flynn for just swapping 4ths? I would think they would want more than that.

Also, do you take into consideration the salary cap. I would love all those FA moves, but doubt we could afford them.

slc chief
01-15-2013, 07:57 AM
as far as there being no qb's in this draft i disagree. is there a luck or a griffin no. but there still is some talent coming out. these so callled espn draft experts make me laugh. look what they projected wilson tannenhil and kaepernick to do in the nfl nothing.

chiefnut
01-15-2013, 09:01 AM
u be a smokin sum a dat der wacky weed?
seattle is not gonna trade 4ths, i don't see them settling for less than a 3rd outright. if we can get him for less then it would be a good deal

Three7s
01-15-2013, 10:05 AM
Matt Flynn and Matt Moore in a QB competition?

Thanks for solving our QB problems.......

Not.

Ryfo18
01-15-2013, 10:25 AM
Great post and thoughts here.

I tend to agree with everyone else's sentiments in that I don't think Seattle will flip Matt Flynn to move up 20 or so picks. Basically, they'd be better off keeping Flynn.

I wouldn't mind a guy like Cook, but he's also a candidate to get franchise tagged I read today.

I like the Robinson pick, and that's a very good, low-risk spot to take Mathieu should he be available.

jason1981
01-15-2013, 02:59 PM
I hate the whole deal. Moore and flyn will not solve our problems. Thinkers like you got us in trouble to begin with. Drrrrraaaafffftttt a qb for once in your life. Repeat draft a qb. God cant beleive peopke still are brain washed to picking other peopkes backups. Their backups for a reason. I want a qb that is as good or better then their starter not their backups.

Three7s
01-15-2013, 03:08 PM
I hate the whole deal. Moore and flyn will not solve our problems. Thinkers like you got us in trouble to begin with. Drrrrraaaafffftttt a qb for once in your life. Repeat draft a qb. God cant beleive peopke still are brain washed to picking other peopkes backups. Their backups for a reason. I want a qb that is as good or better then their starter not their backups.
Can't. Too risky.

/truefans

MyManHali
01-15-2013, 04:07 PM
qbfirstround qbfirstround qbfirst round.


Please stop with the OT pick, do you think Miami regrets picking Long over Ryan?

Yep.

whackojacko58
01-15-2013, 04:29 PM
And we could possibly sign long to be our left tackle if we feel like we can let albert go then draft.... Geeenoo ooohhhahhh gggeeennnooo oooohhhaaaa

Three7s
01-15-2013, 04:33 PM
qbfirstround qbfirstround qbfirst round.


Please stop with the OT pick, do you think Miami regrets picking Long over Ryan?

Yep.
But but but! Think about the protection!

matthewschiefs
01-15-2013, 07:41 PM
qbfirstround qbfirstround qbfirst round.


Please stop with the OT pick, do you think Miami regrets picking Long over Ryan?

Yep.


Is there a Matt Ryan in this draft? It all depends on the talent. Not just drafting a qb to get a qb. We are getting the best player on the board. It's what the GM said. It's what the packers have done. It has worked out pretty well for them.

Lord-Chiefy
01-15-2013, 07:44 PM
We have Matt!!@ we don't need a starter@@ he bedded coaches..check.. he needs lib e.. 1st rd. ..check.. he needs wr..2nd rd.check.

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2013, 08:07 PM
Can't. Too risky.

/truefans

No lets draft Geno at number one. Hate to be the bearer of bad news either you are ignoring what they are saying ( Reid and Hunt) and haven't read up on Dorsey whatsoever. We will not be reaching at the pick. If we stay at number and no qb is the clear cut number one on the board we WILL be drafting the best player available.

A quote from our new GM "we draft the best player available. We live it!"

Bet you are pissed we fired Pioli now he loved to reach on a draft pick.

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2013, 08:20 PM
qbfirstround qbfirstround qbfirst round.


Please stop with the OT pick, do you think Miami regrets picking Long over Ryan?

Yep.

Do you think the raiders regret taking Jamarcus russel over Calvin Johnson.....even the dumb arse raiders would say yes. Sorry yoda ya'all been dumb in the draft.

matthewschiefs
01-15-2013, 08:26 PM
Do you think the raiders regret taking Jamarcus russel over Calvin Johnson.....even the dumb arse raiders would say yes. Sorry yoda ya'all been dumb in the draft.


Shhhh your not supose to mention all the times a qb was a bust. That's just not fair lol

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2013, 08:59 PM
[[/I]
Shhhh your not supose to mention all the times a qb was a bust. That's just not fair lol

They keep wanting to tell us how dumb we are. In the last 12 years four qbs drafted in the top 5 have had success out of like 20 qbs taken The manning brothers, Phil rivers, and Matt Ryan. But hey we need a qb....damn the odds! We can all agree Geno is not rg3, luck, Peyton or Eli who were all sure fire number ones.

Thankfully we have management now that sees the importance of BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE!

matthewschiefs
01-15-2013, 11:16 PM
[[/i]

They keep wanting to tell us how dumb we are. In the last 12 years four qbs drafted in the top 5 have had success out of like 20 qbs taken The manning brothers, Phil rivers, and Matt Ryan. But hey we need a qb....damn the odds! We can all agree Geno is not rg3, luck, Peyton or Eli who were all sure fire number ones.

Thankfully we have management now that sees the importance of BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE!

I was so glad to here the things i have heard from Reid. This we have to draft a QB talk is so short sighted. I have and will say it again drafting a bad qb will set us back farther then not drafting a QB at all.
From Andy Reid when asked about taking a QB at 1
"you can't force it that's when you get in trouble"

And then to here Dorsey say he will take the best player on there board was just like music to my ears. We need a qb bad. But getting the wrong Qb will be worse then sticking with Cassel since you have to give that QB time. I just want to get the RIGHT Qb I don't care who it is and where he comes from

MyManHali
01-15-2013, 11:37 PM
Is there a Matt Ryan in this draft? It all depends on the talent. Not just drafting a qb to get a qb. We are getting the best player on the board. It's what the GM said. It's what the packers have done. It has worked out pretty well for them.


You have to draft to be willing to find out. I would much rather go after another possible future good qb than a Tyson Jackson or Glenn Dorsey.

I think they will go qb with the first pick, and I think it will be Geno.

nigeriannightmare
01-15-2013, 11:39 PM
I was so glad to here the things i have heard from Reid. This we have to draft a QB talk is so short sighted. I have and will say it again drafting a bad qb will set us back farther then not drafting a QB at all.
From Andy Reid when asked about taking a QB at 1
"you can't force it that's when you get in trouble"

And then to here Dorsey say he will take the best player on there board was just like music to my ears. We need a qb bad. But getting the wrong Qb will be worse then sticking with Cassel since you have to give that QB time. I just want to get the RIGHT Qb I don't care who it is and where he comes from

Something the Geno lovers will never understand. Spot on. Geno is not the be all end all. If he was we would all agree to get him.

MyManHali
01-15-2013, 11:39 PM
No lets draft Geno at number one. Hate to be the bearer of bad news either you are ignoring what they are saying ( Reid and Hunt) and haven't read up on Dorsey whatsoever. We will not be reaching at the pick. If we stay at number and no qb is the clear cut number one on the board we WILL be drafting the best player available.

A quote from our new GM "we draft the best player available. We live it!"

Bet you are pissed we fired Pioli now he loved to reach on a draft pick.


How do you know they don't think Geno is the best player on the board? Geno fits Andy Reid's style well, I think they go that route.

MyManHali
01-15-2013, 11:44 PM
Do you think the raiders regret taking Jamarcus russel over Calvin Johnson.....even the dumb arse raiders would say yes. Sorry yoda ya'all been dumb in the draft.


Or we can just go the conservative route and stay in the same state for the next 10 years, say hello to mediocrity.

You do realize with the exception of Drew Brees the last time a qb that won the sb that was not drafted in the first round was during the 2004 season with New England.

Geno to me fits Reid's scheme, he is the best option for our team to improve this draft.

MyManHali
01-15-2013, 11:46 PM
I was so glad to here the things i have heard from Reid. This we have to draft a QB talk is so short sighted. I have and will say it again drafting a bad qb will set us back farther then not drafting a QB at all.
From Andy Reid when asked about taking a QB at 1
"you can't force it that's when you get in trouble"

And then to here Dorsey say he will take the best player on there board was just like music to my ears. We need a qb bad. But getting the wrong Qb will be worse then sticking with Cassel since you have to give that QB time. I just want to get the RIGHT Qb I don't care who it is and where he comes from


Remember Reid took Mcnabb and he obviously thought Mcnabb was the best on the board, ruling out Geno would be dumb. He could very well be Reid's choice. Especially with the qb situation we have.

HaliForPresident
01-15-2013, 11:47 PM
Your 2nd round pick is gonna go top 15 and your 3rd round pick is going to go 1st round. Hali didn't even run a 4.7 second 40 at the combine and he's not gaining speed with age. Hali and Houston are both OLB in the 1 gap 3-4 defense. Basically we need 2 more DL. First pick should be Star (actually trade down but you know what I mean).

matthewschiefs
01-15-2013, 11:47 PM
You have to draft to be willing to find out. I would much rather go after another possible future good qb than a Tyson Jackson or Glenn Dorsey.

I think they will go qb with the first pick, and I think it will be Geno.

They will be willing to draft a qb but there doing there homework with this pick. That's what I like. If Geno's the guy great do it. If it's someone else that might not be a big need at that spot great do it. It has worked for Green Bay for years. Dorsey has stated that they always took the best player out there since he was there. They have the best winning % in the NFL in that time. I don't want anther Jackson or Dorsey at 1 either but I also don't want a Ryan leaf Jamarcus Russell Tim couch David Carr That would hurt us just as much if not more then anther Jackson or dorsey

matthewschiefs
01-15-2013, 11:51 PM
Remember Reid took Mcnabb and he obviously thought Mcnabb was the best on the board, ruling out Geno would be dumb. He could very well be Reid's choice. Especially with the qb situation we have.

Show me where I have ever Ruled out Geno I beg you. Once again it's you twisting my words to make it to that just like you do when I point out mistakes by others not named Cassel to make it out that I like Cassel no matter how many times I say we need a QB. Stop twisting my words I have just said I want the best player out there. If that's Geno fine. IF that's teo fine in thats whats his name from that college you never heard of fine. The only thing I have ever said is I want the best player I just don't care who that player is or what spot he plays at.

huskylawyer
01-16-2013, 12:05 AM
Keep in mind that Reid is not above drafting a player that the fan base doesn't want. The McNabb pick was boo'd lustily by Philly fans (who wanted Ricky Williams), and Philly fans did not want Vick to come to Philly. Williams at that time was the "best player on the board" in nearly everyone's mock-ups. Additionally, people thought he treated Kolb unfairly (losing his job due to injury), but again, Reid did not care.

History shows Reid will do what he wants to do. If he thinks Geno is the way to improve the QB position best, he'll do it and not think twice about it.

I tend to think he's going QB with one of his first 2 picks, because its buys him time with the media and fans ("hey..I have a rookie QB...therefore there are going to be lumps and I need some time....")

And btw, as someone who is in Seattle, RW destroyed Flynn in practices. Carrol himself suggested that the competition "wasn't very close." That should raise some alarm bells with Flynn, even though Wilson was a great, you'd think a veteran could give a rookie some better competition. And the coaching staff at Miami didn't want Flynn, even though they were familiar with him. Reminds me of Leach's comments about Stephen McGee when Dallas drafted him, "Apparently, the Dallas Cowboys like McGee more than his coaches at A&M did." McGee was a bust obviously. Leach was on to something there...

Just my 2 cents.

N TX Dave
01-16-2013, 02:00 AM
You guys need to stop arguing back and forth about the first pick, we all have our ideas who will be picked but no one in here knows what the management is going to do. It is going to be who it is and nothing we say in here will change it. It is also too much to happen before the draft once the combine and school workouts are over most in here may come to a consensus. We are saying the same thing over and over again. It is okay to discuss it but to go on and on with no one changing their mind or even compromising a little is useless.

Sometimes trying to get a person in here to change their mind is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and annoys the pig.

brdempsey69
01-16-2013, 03:58 AM
You guys need to stop arguing back and forth about the first pick, we all have our ideas who will be picked but no one in here knows what the management is going to do. It is going to be who it is and nothing we say in here will change it. It is also too much to happen before the draft once the combine and school workouts are over most in here may come to a consensus. We are saying the same thing over and over again. It is okay to discuss it but to go on and on with no one changing their mind or even compromising a little is useless.

Sometimes trying to get a person in here to change their mind is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Well, one can at least listen to Pigs in this song:

Pink Floyd Pigs (three different ones) Animal - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcV4B-74pDk)

nigeriannightmare
01-16-2013, 07:56 AM
How do you know they don't think Geno is the best player on the board? Geno fits Andy Reid's style well, I think they go that route.

Reid and Clark have both said there is no clear cut number one and Reid has said he is not gonna force that's when you make a mistake. Dempsey has said BPA available he will not waiver on this. Geno is not the BPA at number one, I'm not saying it won't change it very well could but if the draft were held tmrw he would t be at the top.

nigeriannightmare
01-16-2013, 08:07 AM
Or we can just go the conservative route and stay in the same state for the next 10 years, say hello to mediocrity.

You do realize with the exception of Drew Brees the last time a qb that won the sb that was not drafted in the first round was during the 2004 season with New England.

Geno to me fits Reid's scheme, he is the best option for our team to improve this draft.

Reaching when it's a QB is worth the reach damn the valu???? Explain to me how BPA is conservative. You were all about Dempsey from Green Bay! They drafted their Qb (Rogers) who was expected to go in the top 10 at 24. He drafts BPA dude he has said it he said he lives it. Look at anyone's BIG BOARD AND GENO IS NOT NUMBER 1.

Francisco the Reid fan doesn't have a clue which way Reid will go there are lots of options. He did say that Geno doesn't make his reads fast enough for Reid so we are all guessing but if you were gonna draw a conclusion is that the QB issue will NOT be forced

Big Ben and Aaron Rogers were picked at. 11 and 24 not even the top 5. What part of number one pick do you not get? If we can trade back to like 6 maybe 7 sure things change. But number one is Eli, and Peyton, or Andrew luck type QBs dude. Did I say not draft a QB in the first round. I said if the value at number one overall isn't there then don't do it. Trade back or trade back into the first.

texaschief
01-16-2013, 08:04 PM
Wow... walk away for a couple days and all logic and sense gets thrown out the door... it's like the prisoners running the prison in here. :lol:

So much to get to!


Just want to clarify, do you think Seattle will give up Flynn for just swapping 4ths? I would think they would want more than that.

Also, do you take into consideration the salary cap. I would love all those FA moves, but doubt we could afford them.


u be a smokin sum a dat der wacky weed?
seattle is not gonna trade 4ths, i don't see them settling for less than a 3rd outright. if we can get him for less then it would be a good deal

Matt Flynn failed to beat out a player in Wilson who will probably be the offensive rookie of the year. Wilson is a special player and I have a hard time faulting Flynn for losing to a guy with Wilson's talent.

On a side note, I'd like to point out how amusing it is to see the Seattle Seahawks filling their QB position EXACTLY the same way that I suggest the Chiefs do... which is go out, sign some good backups who could potentially start in this league and then draft a QB with a mid-round selection.

BUT, according to my approach's detractors, "teams aren't successful when they attempt to do this."

Matt Flynn is an unproven commodity. He had a couple great games in a Green Bay system that he knew very well. In 2013, he will be on the 2nd year of a 3yr/$19m contract. Not only would the Seahawks jump almost 30 positions in the draft, but they would also gain at least $6m in cap room this year and another $6m next year... that's worth a lot.





I hate the whole deal. Moore and flyn will not solve our problems. Thinkers like you got us in trouble to begin with. Drrrrraaaafffftttt a qb for once in your life. Repeat draft a qb. God cant beleive peopke still are brain washed to picking other peopkes backups. Their backups for a reason. I want a qb that is as good or better then their starter not their backups.

Actually, what got us in trouble was a front office that leveraged our future for the present, trading away all of our valuable draft picks for vets and doing nothing to secure the future of the franchise during the early part of the new millennium. But tunnel vision thinkers like you don't want to truly talk about WHY we're currently in the situation we find ourselves. This franchise had been doing a good job a building the team through the draft until recently when they decided "value be damned, we have a hole" and decided to plug it with poor value players.

Make no mistake about it, those of you who think that RIGHT NOW, in mid January, that there's a QB worth taking #1 overall in April, are delusional. It would be like arguing that even though we have only $5 to our name, we HAVE TO BUY a bottle of Fiji because "we need water" when, all we actually have to do is turn our facet on and fill this "need" in a much more economical fashion.


You have to draft to be willing to find out. I would much rather go after another possible future good qb than a Tyson Jackson or Glenn Dorsey.

I think they will go qb with the first pick, and I think it will be Geno.

If you draft Geno Smith #1 overall, you're going to end up with similar value as you're currently getting out of Jackson and Dorsey... except, at a MUCH more important position. If we drafted Smith #1 overall, and he was bad, you'd be stuck for AT LEAST 5 seasons with him as the #1 guy. THEN, you'd have STILL have to find ANOTHER QB to risk high value on.

I think EVERY Chiefs fan understands the need for a good QB. However, just because you expend precious resources on one, isn't going to make him "good." There's only marginal difference in the value of the #1 pick vs. the $60+mil given to Cassel to be the Chiefs QB. Let's not forget the Chiefs spent a high 2nd round pick AND all that money on Cassel. Just because he wasn't a rookie doesn't mean the Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the early rounds. Imagine how much worse this situation could get if the Chiefs wasted a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, 100+million on Matt Cassel and a busted #1 overall pick in Geno Smith. You think we're bad off now???


How do you know they don't think Geno is the best player on the board? Geno fits Andy Reid's style well, I think they go that route.

Geno Smith isn't as mobile or as good at reading defenses and going through progressions as McNabb was when Reid drafted him. You DO realize that just because they share the same skin color, it doesn't mean all black QBs are the same, right? They're all different QBs and to think Geno Smith is the next McNabb, RGIII, or Mike Vick isn't fair to who Geno Smith ACTUALLY is as a QB. He's an entirely different QB who I think will follow more closely to the Pat White/Vince Young path than he will the McNabb/RGIII path.


Or we can just go the conservative route and stay in the same state for the next 10 years, say hello to mediocrity.

You do realize with the exception of Drew Brees the last time a qb that won the sb that was not drafted in the first round was during the 2004 season with New England.

Geno to me fits Reid's scheme, he is the best option for our team to improve this draft.

After the last 8 seasons, I'd welcome "mediocrity." At least we're moving in the right direction. We'd be a hell of a lot better off than wasting ANOTHER 1st round pick on someone who didn't deserve the selection.

Geno Smith is a mid-to-late first round pick. I don't think you'd find anyone on this board who wouldn't be happy to see a Geno Smith to the Chiefs at any pick after #15. Seems like fair value for his type of talent. Do you have any idea what kind of draft package a team would have to put together to move up from #15 to #1 overall? They'd basically have to trade their ENTIRE draft to the Chiefs to make that move... that's the kind of value we're talking about here... Now, put Tyson Jackson in that scope. Taken #3 overall, when he SHOULD have been selected somewhere in the 20s to the 2nd round. That's a TON of draft value that the Chiefs just s#!t away in order to "fill a need".... an ENTIRE DRAFT'S worth of value that the Chiefs blew out the window... but hey, "it filled a need." Screw the tap water... we NEED FIJI!!


Your 2nd round pick is gonna go top 15 and your 3rd round pick is going to go 1st round. Hali didn't even run a 4.7 second 40 at the combine and he's not gaining speed with age. Hali and Houston are both OLB in the 1 gap 3-4 defense. Basically we need 2 more DL. First pick should be Star (actually trade down but you know what I mean).

no. Ogletree is not a top 15 player in this draft. Then, after that, we're looking at Pitt, Dallas, Baltimore, Seattle, Green Bay, San Fran, Houston, NE, etc who are all pretty much set at LB. Cincinnati could take him, but they have needs all over the place and I think they need a safety much worse than a LB after the emergence of (HUGE SIGH) Vontaze Burfict... (geez, who saw THAT coming? amiright?)

I don't want to get too deep into the 1-gap 3-4 tonight, but I disagree with you on Houston and Hali. I absolutely agree that they are OLBs if they stay with the 2-gap 3-4 though. (again, the flavor of 3-4 has yet to be determined by the staff, but Reid said he liked what the Jets ran the last few years, so my guess of a 1-gap style may have actually been correct... who'da thunkit...)

Sorry, Hali ran a 4.75. Feel better? http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=12471&draftyear=2006&genpos=DE

Idk... maybe my source is bad. I think my point was still valid. They have the same body types and speed as Osi. They can handle the DE spot in a 1-gap.

I'd love for the Chiefs to trade down from the #1 spot. But, remember, it takes 2 to tango. There's no dominant pass-rusher or amazing QB in this draft. There's a great LT, but unless the Chiefs re-sign Albert, they'll have a need there as well. I just don't see anyone WANTING to give up the value to jump a few places to get that #1 spot. But, it's mid January and any number of things could happen between now and then. Who knows, maybe the NFL will turn on its head that kickers will become the new market inefficiency and the Chiefs could trade out of the #1 spot. But right now, I think in order for the Chiefs to maximize value, they'll be stuck at #1 and will take Joekel.

Matt Flynn had a couple GREAT games as a backup behind Aaron Rogers. Kevin Kolb had a couple GREAT games in Andy Reid's system. It doesn't look like Sporano will be coming to KC, so the chances of Moore and/or Long coming to KC may have taken a hit. I really wouldn't be shocked to see the Chiefs offer a couple late round picks to pick up Flynn and/or Kolb. Arizona soured on Kolb, but Andy Reid saw what he could do in his system. Again, if you haven't noticed, Reid and Dorsey are the ones running the show. If they saw enough from Kolb and Flynn respectively, don't be shocked if that's the tandem the Chiefs rely on to head the QB position.

I didn't address the QB position in the first few rounds because the Chiefs pick #1 overall. By the time the Chiefs pick again in the 2nd, I fully expect the top 3-4 QBs to be off the board. After those guys are gone, there's really no point in taking a QB from this class unless he presented a skill-set that could be groomed. To me, Logan looked the part. However, he'll be returning to VT next year, so that pick is moot. I'll throw up another mock each of the following months on this thread as we approach the draft.

I will say that if Wilson, Murray, Smith, or Barkley are available with the 2nd pick in the 2nd round, I would adjust my draft accordingly to take them. I just think those 4 will be taken sometime between #1 overall and #34 overall. None of them are worth #1 overall but I think they ALL represent great value at #34... yes, even Geno Smith.

fairladyZ
01-16-2013, 10:26 PM
i really want the chiefs to pry Rey Mauluga away from cincy.. He's a FA this year and with burcfit playing very well they could keep him and move on from rey since he hasn't been what they really wanted. But at 265+lbs and having pretty good athletic ability i think he could kill it in our system next to DJ

KristofLaw
01-16-2013, 10:30 PM
i really want the chiefs to pry Rey Mauluga away from cincy.. He's a FA this year and with burcfit playing very well they could keep him and move on from rey since he hasn't been what they really wanted. But at 265+lbs and having pretty good athletic ability i think he could kill it in our system next to DJ

I've been a Maualuga fan myself and would love to snatch him up for our linebacking core as well. One can hope right. :bananen_smilies046:

fairladyZ
01-16-2013, 10:33 PM
Ya i've been a fan of his since he came out.. hasnt' really lived up to his potential but i still think he could be a beast, and in our system i think he would be a monster next to our already monster LB's. THink they would be the perfect combo feeding off each other.

texaschief
01-16-2013, 10:42 PM
I've read Maualuga is playing at a "CFL" level and will take any contract offered to him. I used to be one of his fans but from what I've heard, he's just overweight, slow, and disinterested.

nigeriannightmare
01-16-2013, 10:56 PM
I've read Maualuga is playing at a "CFL" level and will take any contract offered to him. I used to be one of his fans but from what I've heard, he's just overweight, slow, and disinterested.

Of the 3 lbs that came out wasn't he supposed to be best of the 3 (Cushing and Matthews). What is up with USC kids being so overrated?

jap1
01-16-2013, 11:31 PM
Of the 3 lbs that came out wasn't he supposed to be best of the 3 (Cushing and Matthews). What is up with USC kids being so overrated?

USC people are extremely coddled. There is a reason they are called the University of Spoiled Children. They had the pick of the litter in terms of recruiting for a number of years on the west coast. Compound that with the fact that until recently, the PAC-10 was not very competitive nationally. So you have a stocked team, playing against subpar competition. So basically, they had a bunch of extremely talented players on a team to cover up each others mistakes.

So it wouldn't shock me if when they get to the NFL where you don't have coaches controlling 16 hours of your day and having plenty of free time they get lazy and lose that competitive drive and passion.

jason1981
01-17-2013, 01:27 AM
I dont care where we pick the qb. I just want the top one or two qb. I dont want the 4th best qb. If we trade down then fine. As long as we dont draft the 4th best one. Even if we have to trade down at a cheaper price and then draft a qb and then we have atleast one extrapick even if we just get an extra 2nd rounder would be fine withme.

texaschief
01-17-2013, 02:31 PM
The top 4 QBs are interchangeable at this point. (assuming Murray in one of the top 4) Smith, Wilson, Murray, and Barkley are all QBs I'd be ok with the Chiefs selecting as the future of the franchise... the only thing that really matters to me is WHERE they take these guys in the draft.

I'm sick of watching this team flush valued resources down the tube for the sake of "filling a hole." It's effing stupid!!

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2013, 03:03 PM
The top 4 QBs are interchangeable at this point. (assuming Murray in one of the top 4) Smith, Wilson, Murray, and Barkley are all QBs I'd be ok with the Chiefs selecting as the future of the franchise... the only thing that really matters to me is WHERE they take these guys in the draft.

I'm sick of watching this team flush valued resources down the tube for the sake of "filling a hole." It's effing stupid!!

Yessir!

Three7s
01-17-2013, 06:12 PM
The top 4 QBs are interchangeable at this point. (assuming Murray in one of the top 4) Smith, Wilson, Murray, and Barkley are all QBs I'd be ok with the Chiefs selecting as the future of the franchise... the only thing that really matters to me is WHERE they take these guys in the draft.

I'm sick of watching this team flush valued resources down the tube for the sake of "filling a hole." It's effing stupid!!
And draft what? A franchise LT that probably won't even be good as billed? Yep, that's going to put us over the edge!

texaschief
01-17-2013, 06:43 PM
And draft what? A franchise LT that probably won't even be good as billed? Yep, that's going to put us over the edge!

Drafting the next Joe Thomas will bring us a lot closer than drafting the next, less athletic, Vince Young.

It amazes me that you worry about a legit franchise LT "not being as good as billed," but you have no worries about taking a QB #1 overall who isn't even in the top 15 on ANYONE'S big board. Joekel is a 4 year starter at LT and didn't miss a game and has ZERO injury concerns.

No, you're right... relying on a more expensive and injury prone Branden Albert to supply protection at LT for a severe reach at QB who is poor in reading defenses and going through progressions in Andy Reid's offense is a MUCH better way to go... IDK WHAT I was thinking... that's not a waste of valuable resources AT ALL...

The best case scenario is drafting a LT with the first pick and a QB with the second pick. The remaining cap space should go to other holes on the field... like WR... not Branden Albert.

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2013, 07:03 PM
Drafting the next Joe Thomas will bring us a lot closer than drafting the next, less athletic, Vince Young.

It amazes me that you worry about a legit franchise LT "not being as good as billed," but you have no worries about taking a QB #1 overall who isn't even in the top 15 on ANYONE'S big board. Joekel is a 4 year starter at LT and didn't miss a game and has ZERO injury concerns.

No, you're right... relying on a more expensive and injury prone Branden Albert to supply protection at LT for a severe reach at QB who is poor in reading defenses and going through progressions in Andy Reid's offense is a MUCH better way to go... IDK WHAT I was thinking... that's not a waste of valuable resources AT ALL...

The best case scenario is drafting a LT with the first pick and a QB with the second pick. The remaining cap space should go to other holes on the field... like WR... not Branden Albert.

You are getting no where. The coach, the GM and the owner have said there is no sure fire Number one qb but all the mock drafts have us getting Geno when he is actually, the highest i have seen him, is number 10 on the big board. That's one hell of a reach at number one over all.

MyManHali
01-17-2013, 07:40 PM
Drafting the next Joe Thomas will bring us a lot closer than drafting the next, less athletic, Vince Young.

It amazes me that you worry about a legit franchise LT "not being as good as billed," but you have no worries about taking a QB #1 overall who isn't even in the top 15 on ANYONE'S big board. Joekel is a 4 year starter at LT and didn't miss a game and has ZERO injury concerns.

No, you're right... relying on a more expensive and injury prone Branden Albert to supply protection at LT for a severe reach at QB who is poor in reading defenses and going through progressions in Andy Reid's offense is a MUCH better way to go... IDK WHAT I was thinking... that's not a waste of valuable resources AT ALL...

The best case scenario is drafting a LT with the first pick and a QB with the second pick. The remaining cap space should go to other holes on the field... like WR... not Branden Albert.



Geno's passing skills are much better than Vince Young's. We should know that selecting a LT over a qb is foolish. Miami picked Long over Matt Ryan, and what has Thomas done for Cleveland?

QB>LT

Three7s
01-17-2013, 08:05 PM
Drafting the next Joe Thomas will bring us a lot closer than drafting the next, less athletic, Vince Young.

It amazes me that you worry about a legit franchise LT "not being as good as billed," but you have no worries about taking a QB #1 overall who isn't even in the top 15 on ANYONE'S big board. Joekel is a 4 year starter at LT and didn't miss a game and has ZERO injury concerns.

No, you're right... relying on a more expensive and injury prone Branden Albert to supply protection at LT for a severe reach at QB who is poor in reading defenses and going through progressions in Andy Reid's offense is a MUCH better way to go... IDK WHAT I was thinking... that's not a waste of valuable resources AT ALL...

The best case scenario is drafting a LT with the first pick and a QB with the second pick. The remaining cap space should go to other holes on the field... like WR... not Branden Albert.
Comparing Geno Smith to Vince Young? Funny, I'm pretty sure Geno has 10x the accuracy, touch, and upside that Vince Young did. All Young knew how to do was run, which Geno DOESN'T DO AT ALL!

texaschief
01-17-2013, 08:17 PM
Geno's passing skills are much better than Vince Young's. We should know that selecting a LT over a qb is foolish. Miami picked Long over Matt Ryan, and what has Thomas done for Cleveland?

QB>LT

Really? Thomas has provided a hell of a lot more than:

Harry Agganis- 1952 1st round
Bobby Garrett- 1954 1st round
Mike Phipps- 1970 1st round
Tim Couch- 99' #1 overall
Brady Quinn- '07 #22 overall
Brandon Weeden '12 #22 overall

That's not even mentioning:

2nd rounders Milt Plum in '57 and Rick Norton in '66

or 3rd rounders:
Don Klosterman in '52
John Furman in '62
Mark Miller in '78
Eric Zeier in '95
Charlie Frye in '05
or Colt McCoy in '10

In fact, the Browns have drafted 45 QBs in their history. If I were you, I wouldn't use the Browns as a source to support your argument... you're just making my point for me.

Matt Ryan has provided all of ONE more playoff win than Jake Long... and that was last Sunday.

texaschief
01-17-2013, 08:20 PM
Comparing Geno Smith to Vince Young? Funny, I'm pretty sure Geno has 10x the accuracy, touch, and upside that Vince Young did. All Young knew how to do was run, which Geno DOESN'T DO AT ALL!

You're "pretty sure" of that, huh? Any proof? His mid range passing is suspect and his comp% is inflated by the screen passing system he played in at WV.

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2013, 08:21 PM
Really? Thomas has provided a hell of a lot more than:

Harry Agganis- 1952 1st round
Bobby Garrett- 1954 1st round
Mike Phipps- 1970 1st round
Tim Couch- 99' #1 overall
Brady Quinn- '07 #22 overall
Brandon Weeden '12 #22 overall

That's not even mentioning:

2nd rounders Milt Plum in '57 and Rick Norton in '66

or 3rd rounders:
Don Klosterman in '52
John Furman in '62
Mark Miller in '78
Eric Zeier in '95
Charlie Frye in '05
or Colt McCoy in '10

In fact, the Browns have drafted 45 QBs in their history. If I were you, I wouldn't use the Browns as a source to support your argument... you're just making my point for me.

Matt Ryan has provided all of ONE more playoff win than Jake Long... and that was last Sunday.

So the talent evaluators are the ones we need to rely instead of just drafting a QB to have one. Good thing the people in place will not make that mistake. If we had kept pioli we would have reached for a QB.

matthewschiefs
01-17-2013, 08:22 PM
Drafting the next Joe Thomas will bring us a lot closer than drafting the next, less athletic, Vince Young.

It amazes me that you worry about a legit franchise LT "not being as good as billed," but you have no worries about taking a QB #1 overall who isn't even in the top 15 on ANYONE'S big board. Joekel is a 4 year starter at LT and didn't miss a game and has ZERO injury concerns.

No, you're right... relying on a more expensive and injury prone Branden Albert to supply protection at LT for a severe reach at QB who is poor in reading defenses and going through progressions in Andy Reid's offense is a MUCH better way to go... IDK WHAT I was thinking... that's not a waste of valuable resources AT ALL...

The best case scenario is drafting a LT with the first pick and a QB with the second pick. The remaining cap space should go to other holes on the field... like WR... not Branden Albert.

THIS
ANYONE can be a bust. Drafting a good QB will have more of an impact then drafting a good LT. But drafting a bad Qb will do far more bad then a bad LT. Some just want to narrow the focus on the QB. I'm glad they are not the ones who make the choice. Since The ones who have the choice say best player on the board.

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2013, 08:23 PM
You're "pretty sure" of that, huh? Any proof? His mid range passing is suspect and his comp% is inflated by the screen passing system he played in at WV.

And Vince won a national championship and a Heisman.

matthewschiefs
01-17-2013, 08:25 PM
Link to Vince youngs texas
Vince Young Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-young-1.html)

Link to Genos numbers at W Virgina
Geno Smith Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/geno-smith-1.html)

They are not far apart and we no how Vince young turned out in the NFL. But Maybe Geno has his head on better then Young did.

texaschief
01-17-2013, 08:29 PM
And Vince won a national championship and a Heisman.

He SHOULD have won the Heisman. His JUNIOR year, Reggie Bush won and VY was 2nd. I think Bush had to vacate the Heisman because of the benefits he received at USC... which is why USC was bowl-ineligible the last few years.

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2013, 08:35 PM
He SHOULD have won the Heisman. His JUNIOR year, Reggie Bush won and VY was 2nd. I think Bush had to vacate the Heisman because of the benefits he received at USC... which is why USC was bowl-ineligible the last few years.

That's right I remember now. So if Reggie had to vacate it does it mean Vince gets it or there just isn't a Heisman winner that year.

texaschief
01-17-2013, 08:36 PM
Link to Vince youngs texas
Vince Young Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-young-1.html)

Link to Genos numbers at W Virgina
Geno Smith Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/geno-smith-1.html)

They are not far apart and we no how Vince young turned out in the NFL. But Maybe Geno has his head on better then Young did.

Their Junior years are almost identical with Geno passing for 1000 yards more but for almost 1.5 yards less per attempt than Young... but I'm sure the system he played in had nothing to do with that...

texaschief
01-17-2013, 08:37 PM
That's right I remember now. So if Reggie had to vacate it does it mean Vince gets it or there just isn't a Heisman winner that year.

No winner... which I think is stupid. That just cheats the 2nd best player, IMO.

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2013, 08:37 PM
Link to Vince youngs texas
Vince Young Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-young-1.html)

Link to Genos numbers at W Virgina
Geno Smith Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/geno-smith-1.html)

They are not far apart and we no how Vince young turned out in the NFL. But Maybe Geno has his head on better then Young did.

And Geno has one more year of starting.

nigeriannightmare
01-17-2013, 08:41 PM
Their Junior years are almost identical with Geno passing for 1000 yards more but for almost 1.5 yards less per attempt than Young... but I'm sure the system he played in had nothing to do with that...


How can he average 1.5 yard per attempt less???? He throws the best deep ball in college why wouldn't the coaching staff use that.....Oh he had two stud receivers that had hellacious YAC.

texaschief
01-17-2013, 08:48 PM
Just replace the name "Vince Young" with the name "Geno Smith" and the "3rd overall pick" with the "1st overall pick" and see if this article doesn't apply.

Three7s
01-17-2013, 08:49 PM
THIS
ANYONE can be a bust. Drafting a good QB will have more of an impact then drafting a good LT. But drafting a bad Qb will do far more bad then a bad LT. Some just want to narrow the focus on the QB. I'm glad they are not the ones who make the choice. Since The ones who have the choice say best player on the board.
Very true, but if you don't take the risk and draft the QB, there will never be long term success. I don't care if he busts, you have to keep trying. Shoot, look at Carolina. Clausen was a bust. What did they do? Newton #1 the next year. You can't just stop with one dud. Maybe Geno is a bust, but you have to try.

matthewschiefs
01-17-2013, 09:00 PM
Very true, but if you don't take the risk and draft the QB, there will never be long term success. I don't care if he busts, you have to keep trying. Shoot, look at Carolina. Clausen was a bust. What did they do? Newton #1 the next year. You can't just stop with one dud. Maybe Geno is a bust, but you have to try.

If he's at the top of the board yes. If not you take the best player. IMO you should alway take the guy you think has the best chance of being good in the NFL. Green Bay has taken the best on there board for years they have the highest winning % in that time.

Three7s
01-17-2013, 09:07 PM
If he's at the top of the board yes. If not you take the best player. IMO you should alway take the guy you think has the best chance of being good in the NFL. Green Bay has taken the best on there board for years they have the highest winning % in that time.
I don't buy it for a second. They've had an HOF level QB since I was 6 years old. It makes it pretty easy to take the "best available" when you don't necessarily need a QB. The Packers couldn't have been any luckier in that 2005 draft.

texaschief
01-17-2013, 09:19 PM
Very true, but if you don't take the risk and draft the QB, there will never be long term success. I don't care if he busts, you have to keep trying. Shoot, look at Carolina. Clausen was a bust. What did they do? Newton #1 the next year. You can't just stop with one dud. Maybe Geno is a bust, but you have to try.

No, you have to be smart. Invest in scouting. Invest in talent evaluators. Invest in coaching. Maximize value. This isn't a game where you succeed by taking risks. This isn't a game rooted in Vegas. This is a game rooted in basic economic principles. The successful teams don't just throw caution to the wind or throw a bunch of s#!t against the wall to see what sticks.

How bout you stop watching the bad teams in the league to see what they do and pay attention to the Patriots, Ravens, and Steelers of the league who invest in their O-line and defense until it's time to pull the trigger on a well-evaluated QB... not just the flavor of the month who happens to be the "least worst" in any particular draft class. You see the Patriots, Eagles, Ravens, and Steelers moving all over the draft board on game day because they have invested in scouting, know how to target certain players, know WHERE they can get them in the draft, and how to maximize their draft resources.

Wasting resources on draft busts year after year is NOT the way to build perennial playoff contenders... just ask the Lions and Raiders.

matthewschiefs
01-17-2013, 09:32 PM
I don't buy it for a second. They've had an HOF level QB since I was 6 years old. It makes it pretty easy to take the "best available" when you don't necessarily need a QB. The Packers couldn't have been any luckier in that 2005 draft.

They wouldn't have had a hall of fame QB if they didn't draft the best player instead of going on need. They didn't Need a qb Farve was going to be there. Drafting the best available is why they have had that hof level QB.

texaschief
01-17-2013, 09:36 PM
I don't buy it for a second. They've had an HOF level QB since I was 6 years old. It makes it pretty easy to take the "best available" when you don't necessarily need a QB. The Packers couldn't have been any luckier in that 2005 draft.

Good teams don't address the QB position (or any other position for that matter) when they don't have one. Successful teams, businesses, etc. don't manage by crisis. They draft and develop. Unfortunately for the Chiefs, they had Scott Pioli at the helm who didn't want to admit he was wrong about Matt Cassel, and therefore ignored the QB position like an ostrich with his head in the ground. The Packers didn't wait until Brett Favre was gone to address the forthcoming need. Carl Peterson and Dick Vermeil should have been drafting and grooming Trent Green's replacement long before we ever got to this situation... ditto O-line and defensive secondary. Peterson and Vermeil traded away all our valuable draft picks for guys like Roaf and Green and never did anything to secure the future of the franchise.

You don't wait to fill the hole after a guy has vacated because there may not be a good option to fill that hole when the time comes. Peterson and Pioli have royally screwed this team in so many ways when it came to the draft.

There's nothing smart about putting all your chips on red... it's just a gamble. Maybe you'll hit big but the problem is that taking a QB #1 overall isn't even as good as a 50/50 proposition... even if the QB is considered "can't miss." (insert Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, JaMarcus Russell, David Carr, Alex Smith, Etc. Etc.)

KCCF
01-17-2013, 09:48 PM
No, you have to be smart. Invest in scouting. Invest in talent evaluators. Invest in coaching. Maximize value. This isn't a game where you succeed by taking risks. This isn't a game rooted in Vegas. This is a game rooted in basic economic principles. The successful teams don't just throw caution to the wind or throw a bunch of s#!t against the wall to see what sticks.

How bout you stop watching the bad teams in the league to see what they do and pay attention to the Patriots, Ravens, and Steelers of the league who invest in their O-line and defense until it's time to pull the trigger on a well-evaluated QB... not just the flavor of the month who happens to be the "least worst" in any particular draft class. You see the Patriots, Eagles, Ravens, and Steelers moving all over the draft board on game day because they have invested in scouting, know how to target certain players, know WHERE they can get them in the draft, and how to maximize their draft resources.

Wasting resources on draft busts year after year is NOT the way to build perennial playoff contenders... just ask the Lions and Raiders.

You can't say Brady was "well evaluated" or they would've taken him sooner if they knew what he would be. Don't act like the patriots knew what they were getting when they drafted him...

texaschief
01-17-2013, 10:08 PM
You can't say Brady was "well evaluated" or they would've taken him sooner if they knew what he would be. Don't act like the patriots knew what they were getting when they drafted him...

I was using them more as an example of their drafting acumen and willingness to move around instead of just staying put and trying to force a round peg into a square hole. Not so much the Brady pick. Drew Bledsoe did a lot to get that franchise relevant. We need to find our Drew Bledsoe, not our Tom Brady. (Yes, I realize he was #1 overall.) I dare anyone to tell me there's a Drew Bledsoe in this draft.

Three7s
01-18-2013, 10:03 AM
2013 NFL Draft Tracker €“ NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade)

4th best prospect according to the NFL.com draft grade? Nonsense! ChiefsCrowd told me that Geno is a late first round pick with no business in the top 5!

Geno Smith Draft Profile – NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/geno-smith?id=2539335)

Ryfo18
01-18-2013, 10:48 AM
I was using them more as an example of their drafting acumen and willingness to move around instead of just staying put and trying to force a round peg into a square hole. Not so much the Brady pick. Drew Bledsoe did a lot to get that franchise relevant. We need to find our Drew Bledsoe, not our Tom Brady. (Yes, I realize he was #1 overall.) I dare anyone to tell me there's a Drew Bledsoe in this draft.

There's a Drew Bledsoe in this draft...What's so special about Bledsoe? 98-95 career record, 77.1 QB Rating, 57.2% completion percentage and a 251:206 TD:INT ratio. 4 playoff appearances in 14 years.

Sounds like Matt Cassel if you ask me. I guarantee you there is a Drew Bledsoe in this draft.

N TX Dave
01-18-2013, 10:52 AM
2013 NFL Draft Tracker – NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade)

4th best prospect according to the NFL.com draft grade? Nonsense! ChiefsCrowd told me that Geno is a late first round pick with no business in the top 5!

Geno Smith Draft Profile – NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/geno-smith?id=2539335)

CBS says he is 11 (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings)

Scout inc on ESPN says he is 23 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft)

SB Nation says he is 16 (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/18/3780242/2013-nfl-draft-top-100-big-board)

So most have him a reach at #1

Ryfo18
01-18-2013, 10:54 AM
CBS says he is 11 (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings)

Scout inc on ESPN says he is 23 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft)

SB Nation says he is 16 (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/18/3780242/2013-nfl-draft-top-100-big-board)

So most have him a reach at #1

The only opinion that matters is the one in the Chiefs scouting department though. If he's their #1, they'll take him. We'll see in April I guess.

texaschief
01-18-2013, 02:16 PM
If they think Geno is worth the #1 pick, you might as well sit back and relax because this regime will prove to be just as incompetent as the previous one.

nigeriannightmare
01-18-2013, 02:30 PM
CBS says he is 11 (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings)

Scout inc on ESPN says he is 23 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft)

SB Nation says he is 16 (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/18/3780242/2013-nfl-draft-top-100-big-board)

So most have him a reach at #1

Absurd the best deep ball thrower can not be rated outside the top 10. Those links carry no water only the ones saying Geno is top 5 do....end sarcasm!

Ryfo18
01-18-2013, 02:31 PM
If they think Geno is worth the #1 pick, you might as well sit back and relax because this regime will prove to be just as incompetent as the previous one.

You think so? What about when Andy Reid shocked the world and took McNabb? How'd that turn out?

And if this team does take Joeckel at #1 overall b/c they think he's the best player, they aren't one bit better personnel wise than they were last year.

Ryfo18
01-18-2013, 02:44 PM
Lastly, a lot of teams play it safe and take the best player available and snag a LT. LTs never turn teams into instant contenders. That's why if Geno is the best QB in the Chiefs minds, he'll weigh heavier b/c of positional importance. Every single GM ever will tell you they draft the best player available. It's partially true AFTER you factor in the weights they put on each position.

If you truly live and die by the "BPA" attitude, then you'll never get a QB b/c they're always overdrafted due to extra weight put on the position.

nigeriannightmare
01-18-2013, 02:53 PM
You think so? What about when Andy Reid shocked the world and took McNabb? How'd that turn out?

And if this team does take Joeckel at #1 overall b/c they think he's the best player, they aren't one bit better personnel wise than they were last year.

So you are basing our draft on one pick?

Ryfo18
01-18-2013, 02:58 PM
So you are basing our draft on one pick?

Not at all. But once you use your first pick on a LT, the team is no better than last year.

Of course they're going to add more talent in rounds 2-7. But drafting a LT at #1 overall is not adding any wins, no matter how you swing it.

So what's more important, take the best player or make the team better?

MyManHali
01-18-2013, 05:06 PM
You think so? What about when Andy Reid shocked the world and took McNabb? How'd that turn out?

And if this team does take Joeckel at #1 overall b/c they think he's the best player, they aren't one bit better personnel wise than they were last year.


Ryfo we should know by now that this board has been happy with draft picks like Tyson Jackson. Now, if we can get enough Tyson Jacksons on this team maybe we can get back to 8-8. Just maybe.

nigeriannightmare
01-18-2013, 05:26 PM
Ryfo we should know by now that this board has been happy with draft picks like Tyson Jackson. Now, if we can get enough Tyson Jacksons on this team maybe we can get back to 8-8. Just maybe.

Who on gods green earth is happy with the Tyson Jackson pick? Ryfo has defended him by saying he has done exactly wha has been asked of him. You get angry at reaching for Tyson Jackson, but 95% of the big boards don't have Geno in the top 10 but that is not a reach. Does that sound about rough to you?

nigeriannightmare
01-18-2013, 05:27 PM
CBS says he is 11 (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings)

Scout inc on ESPN says he is 23 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft)

SB Nation says he is 16 (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/18/3780242/2013-nfl-draft-top-100-big-board)

So most have him a reach at #1

It's a reach.

matthewschiefs
01-18-2013, 06:48 PM
Ryfo we should know by now that this board has been happy with draft picks like Tyson Jackson. Now, if we can get enough Tyson Jacksons on this team maybe we can get back to 8-8. Just maybe.

Post like these are why you have gotten the responses you do. Just because someone doesn't agree that Geno Smith is the clear choice you claim there happy with Tyson Jackson. STOP. Having a difference of opinion is one thing putting words in peoples mouths is anther.

nigeriannightmare
01-18-2013, 06:54 PM
Not at all. But once you use your first pick on a LT, the team is no better than last year.

Of course they're going to add more talent in rounds 2-7. But drafting a LT at #1 overall is not adding any wins, no matter how you swing it.

So what's more important, take the best player or make the team better?

I can agree with that. However with chip Kelly going to Philadelphia and the connections that the staff has to various QBs in the league we are all just guessing.

Hey I hope Geno just kicks total arse at the combine. I hope there is a clear cut number one. As of right now there isn't and if the draft were held today drafting the LT frees up a lot of cap space to go out and do different things.

Let me ask you this. In regards to Bowe, tag him and sign either mike Wallace or Greg Jennings and give up the Baldwin experiment or let Bowe go and get one of those two WRs?

We do have more questions than the QB. Andy Reid may

Three7s
01-18-2013, 07:44 PM
I can agree with that. However with chip Kelly going to Philadelphia and the connections that the staff has to various QBs in the league we are all just guessing.

Hey I hope Geno just kicks total arse at the combine. I hope there is a clear cut number one. As of right now there isn't and if the draft were held today drafting the LT frees up a lot of cap space to go out and do different things.

Let me ask you this. In regards to Bowe, tag him and sign either mike Wallace or Greg Jennings and give up the Baldwin experiment or let Bowe go and get one of those two WRs?

We do have more questions than the QB. Andy Reid may
It's up to Reid as far as which receiver to get, but definitely tag Bowe. He'll be a fool to not want to be here with Reid's pass-happy offense.

texaschief
01-18-2013, 07:57 PM
You think so? What about when Andy Reid shocked the world and took McNabb? How'd that turn out?

And if this team does take Joeckel at #1 overall b/c they think he's the best player, they aren't one bit better personnel wise than they were last year.

Just because the Philly fans didn't like the McNabb pick either does NOT mean Geno Smith is even REMOTELY comparable.

Fact: The new Chiefs GM says that the draft strategy he is going to incorporate here in KC is BPA.

Fact: Geno Smith's player rank is currently sitting somewhere between 13 and 18 on average in the 2013 draft.

Fact: The difference between the value at pick #1 and pick #15 is practically an ENTIRE DRAFT'S worth of picks.

Fact: There's NOTHING Geno Smith can do between now and the draft that is going to vault him to the perceived BPA at #1 overall.

Therefore, the Chiefs would be INSANE to draft Geno Smith #1 overall. This is not difficult. If you paid attention in your economics course, you'd realize how HORRIBLE of a decision it would be to take Geno Smith at the #1 spot in the draft. It's the kind of move that could sink the franchise for another 7 years if not more.

Three7s
01-18-2013, 10:25 PM
Just because the Philly fans didn't like the McNabb pick either does NOT mean Geno Smith is even REMOTELY comparable.

Fact: The new Chiefs GM says that the draft strategy he is going to incorporate here in KC is BPA.

Fact: Geno Smith's player rank is currently sitting somewhere between 13 and 18 on average in the 2013 draft.

Fact: The difference between the value at pick #1 and pick #15 is practically an ENTIRE DRAFT'S worth of picks.

Fact: There's NOTHING Geno Smith can do between now and the draft that is going to vault him to the perceived BPA at #1 overall.

Therefore, the Chiefs would be INSANE to draft Geno Smith #1 overall. This is not difficult. If you paid attention in your economics course, you'd realize how HORRIBLE of a decision it would be to take Geno Smith at the #1 spot in the draft. It's the kind of move that could sink the franchise for another 7 years if not more.
When's the last time this team was relevant? If Geno busts, I'll gladly take 7 years worth of bad football as punishment if it means this team actually has the courage to draft a franchise QB. I've had to endure 27 years of it so far.

Three7s
01-18-2013, 11:11 PM
Geno Smith: Worthy of the #1 Pick - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FTZZh4cKfXs#)

For some reason, the dumb thing doesn't want to embed.

N TX Dave
01-18-2013, 11:29 PM
I have three problems with Geno
1. In the NFL his receivers will not get the separation that they did in college and if they do the DB has a lost faster closing speed.
2. Scouts say he is not good at reading his progression that he gets locked on a receiver. We have seen a QB like that the last 4 years and I am so tired of it.
3. He has no experience under center, he is always in the gun. Can he take the 3, 5 and 7 step drop?

I am sure most of those problems can be worked on except #1 and because of these things he probably will not be able to start game one of the season, that means we need QB to start the season with and the fans will not accept if Cassel is still here.

texaschief
01-19-2013, 01:09 AM
I think that if Andy Reid decides that Cassel is the guy for this season, that the fans MAY give him the benefit of the doubt but will want to see some SERIOUS results in order to support another year in '14. Cassel DID have a really good season in NE and then another good year in '10. He may get another year of fan support if Reid can do a good job selling him to the fans.

****This is NOT a Cassel endorsement!!!*****

Ryfo18
01-19-2013, 02:59 AM
I can agree with that. However with chip Kelly going to Philadelphia and the connections that the staff has to various QBs in the league we are all just guessing.

Hey I hope Geno just kicks total arse at the combine. I hope there is a clear cut number one. As of right now there isn't and if the draft were held today drafting the LT frees up a lot of cap space to go out and do different things.

Let me ask you this. In regards to Bowe, tag him and sign either mike Wallace or Greg Jennings and give up the Baldwin experiment or let Bowe go and get one of those two WRs?

We do have more questions than the QB. Andy Reid may

Personally, I think Bowe is a better WR than Jennings, who has been oft-injured the last 2 years. Jennings struggles to beat press coverage. I've watched him a lot (living in Wisconsin).

Mike Wallace is a great name, but a deep threat that doesn't really fit Andy Reid's WCO. Not saying he wouldn't be a great acquisition, just that he would be tough to justify over Bowe, especially given our QB situation. I mean, picture a scenario where Cassel throws a deep ball to Wallace...He'd probably have to come back 5 yards to get it.

I see in Bowe a Terrell Owens type WR just waiting to unleash. He had a 15 TD season in 2010! There is a short list of players that have ever done that. I don't doubt that he can go it again under Cassel...He did it once. But at some point, we all need to realize that D Bowe is a freak WR that would just beast under a good QB.


Just because the Philly fans didn't like the McNabb pick either does NOT mean Geno Smith is even REMOTELY comparable.

Fact: The new Chiefs GM says that the draft strategy he is going to incorporate here in KC is BPA.

Find me a GM that doesn't go by that philosophy, the guy who says "yeah we reach for players here and there." It's GM cliche. Their interpretation of BPA includes positional weights and team needs.


Fact: Geno Smith's player rank is currently sitting somewhere between 13 and 18 on average in the 2013 draft.

Fact: The difference between the value at pick #1 and pick #15 is practically an ENTIRE DRAFT'S worth of picks.

Fact: There's NOTHING Geno Smith can do between now and the draft that is going to vault him to the perceived BPA at #1 overall.

Small example, definitely not the rule...but the 2010 draft. Bradford #1, Jason Pierre-Paul #15. Huge difference in terms of impact? Not really. The Giants needed a pass rusher (they got a good one). The Rams needed a QB. You really think GMs put zero weight into positional need?


Therefore, the Chiefs would be INSANE to draft Geno Smith #1 overall. This is not difficult. If you paid attention in your economics course, you'd realize how HORRIBLE of a decision it would be to take Geno Smith at the #1 spot in the draft. It's the kind of move that could sink the franchise for another 7 years if not more.

Economics (which i did take) would view a product in terms of supply/demand. As your demand increases (every team wants a good QB) and supply remains unchanged, then you have a shortage, which leads to a higher price...well, right now there is a QB shortage. That makes a player like Geno (who is the best QB IMO) much more valuable to the Chiefs b/c of the lack of supply. At some point you can't just compare a QB and a LT and say "this player is absolutely better" if they're both top 10 picks. What makes that LT the "Best Player Available"? I mean seriously, how do you answer that question? In my opinion, you say "These are both outstanding players...we need a QB tho so that wins."

If QB demand were to decrease (to a hypothetical point where they were worth the same as punters), then there would be a surplus, and you could snag a decent QB in the late rounds.

So, you wanted to talk economics...that's as simple as I can put it. Supply/demand. If the best overall player in the Chiefs mind is a 3-4 OLB...you think there is a chance in hell they take him given they have Houston/Hali?

Please, open your eyes to the "BPA" lingo. It's what everyone says. And I agree with you...it is economics. You're just misunderstanding economics.

The "Best Player Available" lingo is used by everyone across the league. You're kidding yourself if they don't put positional needs Into their "best player" rankings. Please wake up to this. If you still want to debate economics...I'm ready. Explain to me how the Economics course you took justifies your position, please.

Ryfo18
01-19-2013, 03:06 AM
I'll just say this...let it be known that my worst nightmare is the Chiefs taking Joeckel and the Raiders taking Geno and Geno goes on to be the Geno I think he will (basically the Gannon situation multiplied by the fact that he'll be around for 10+ years. Please no.

Three7s
01-19-2013, 04:22 AM
I'll just say this...let it be known that my worst nightmare is the Chiefs taking Joeckel and the Raiders taking Geno and Geno goes on to be the Geno I think he will (basically the Gannon situation multiplied by the fact that he'll be around for 10+ years. Please no.
My worst fear as well. Of course, most on here think the Raiders are sold on Palmer, which is completely false seeing as they started Pryor in their final game of the season.

jap1
01-19-2013, 04:28 AM
My worst fear as well. Of course, most on here think the Raiders are sold on Palmer, which is completely false seeing as they started Pryor in their final game of the season.

I believe Palmer was hurt for that game, wasn't he? Or was it for the game before.

Chiefster
01-19-2013, 09:41 AM
I think that if Andy Reid decides that Cassel is the guy for this season, that the fans MAY give him the benefit of the doubt but will want to see some SERIOUS results in order to support another year in '14. Cassel DID have a really good season in NE and then another good year in '10. He may get another year of fan support if Reid can do a good job selling him to the fans.

****This is NOT a Cassel endorsement!!!*****

Cassel had a miserable year last year, no doubt about that, however, I find myself hard pressed to blame all our ill fated, on field, difficulties on him.

Three7s
01-19-2013, 10:31 AM
Cassel had a miserable year last year, no doubt about that, however, I find myself hard pressed to blame all our ill fated, on field, difficulties on him.
Of course not, but even in a season where everything lines up perfectly, he's only good for about 11 wins maximum. Plus, he almost never beats good teams. Cassel simply can't get you to the SB, just not possible.

N TX Dave
01-19-2013, 11:26 AM
Of course not, but even in a season where everything lines up perfectly, he's only good for about 11 wins maximum. Plus, he almost never beats good teams. Cassel simply can't get you to the SB, just not possible.

Like I said earlier if we draft Geno I don't think he is ready to start the first game of the year to many things that need work like getting under center and learning how to make 3, 5 and 7 step drops, we may have to start a veteran QB and it might be Cassel if Reid thinks he can get the job done and then in the middle of the season or 2014 Geno might be ready to take over. Do you really think we are going to the SB next year.

matthewschiefs
01-19-2013, 11:35 AM
Personally, I think Bowe is a better WR than Jennings, who has been oft-injured the last 2 years. Jennings struggles to beat press coverage. I've watched him a lot (living in Wisconsin).

Mike Wallace is a great name, but a deep threat that doesn't really fit Andy Reid's WCO. Not saying he wouldn't be a great acquisition, just that he would be tough to justify over Bowe, especially given our QB situation. I mean, picture a scenario where Cassel throws a deep ball to Wallace...He'd probably have to come back 5 yards to get it.

I see in Bowe a Terrell Owens type WR just waiting to unleash. He had a 15 TD season in 2010! There is a short list of players that have ever done that. I don't doubt that he can go it again under Cassel...He did it once. But at some point, we all need to realize that D Bowe is a freak WR that would just beast under a good QB.

I think Bowe has more talent then Jennings but Jennings has been more consistent then Bowe. I would love to get Jennings just because he's better then our number 2 him and Bowe Together would be pretty good.

I don't see Wallace getting away from the Steelers




Find me a GM that doesn't go by that philosophy, the guy who says "yeah we reach for players here and there." It's GM cliche. Their interpretation of BPA includes positional weights and team needs.





The "Best Player Available" lingo is used by everyone across the league. You're kidding yourself if they don't put positional needs Into their "best player" rankings. Please wake up to this. If you still want to debate economics...I'm ready. Explain to me how the Economics course you took justifies your position, please.


That's very true but our new GM has a track record of taking the BPA. Just look at all the WRs that the Packers have gotten. Just look at there QB Those were not needs at the time or at least the biggest need for them. They took them. It's one thing for a GM to say that it's anther when you have proven that's how you do things.

I don't think Positonal need will have 0 impact but I don't think it's going to play a huge factor in who we take.

Ryfo18
01-19-2013, 11:58 AM
I think Bowe has more talent then Jennings but Jennings has been more consistent then Bowe. I would love to get Jennings just because he's better then our number 2 him and Bowe Together would be pretty good.

I don't see Wallace getting away from the Steelers

Jennings has obviously been more consistent b/c of QB play. The Steelers have cap problems, it's pretty much a given that he won't be back.



That's very true but our new GM has a track record of taking the BPA. Just look at all the WRs that the Packers have gotten. Just look at there QB Those were not needs at the time or at least the biggest need for them. They took them. It's one thing for a GM to say that it's anther when you have proven that's how you do things.

I don't think Positonal need will have 0 impact but I don't think it's going to play a huge factor in who we take.

Our current GM has had the QB situation solved for years w/ Favre/Rodgers. So of course they don't put extra weight at that position. It's not a need.

matthewschiefs
01-19-2013, 01:13 PM
Jennings has obviously been more consistent b/c of QB play. The Steelers have cap problems, it's pretty much a given that he won't be back.

The QB play has been part of the problem with Bowe but Mr.Bowe also takes his share of the blame for the problem. There are games where you don't even know that Bowe is in the game. Some of that also falls on Bowe.





Our current GM has had the QB situation solved for years w/ Favre/Rodgers. So of course they don't put extra weight at that position. It's not a need.

Again They have Rodgers because they didn't focus on need. They had bigger needs in 05 then the QB spot. If they had stuck to drafting for need then they wouldn't be in the spot there in today.

texaschief
01-19-2013, 02:22 PM
Find me a GM that doesn't go by that philosophy, the guy who says "yeah we reach for players here and there." It's GM cliche. Their interpretation of BPA includes positional weights and team needs.



Small example, definitely not the rule...but the 2010 draft. Bradford #1, Jason Pierre-Paul #15. Huge difference in terms of impact? Not really. The Giants needed a pass rusher (they got a good one). The Rams needed a QB. You really think GMs put zero weight into positional need?



Economics (which i did take) would view a product in terms of supply/demand. As your demand increases (every team wants a good QB) and supply remains unchanged, then you have a shortage, which leads to a higher price...well, right now there is a QB shortage. That makes a player like Geno (who is the best QB IMO) much more valuable to the Chiefs b/c of the lack of supply. At some point you can't just compare a QB and a LT and say "this player is absolutely better" if they're both top 10 picks. What makes that LT the "Best Player Available"? I mean seriously, how do you answer that question? In my opinion, you say "These are both outstanding players...we need a QB tho so that wins."


If QB demand were to decrease (to a hypothetical point where they were worth the same as punters), then there would be a surplus, and you could snag a decent QB in the late rounds.

So, you wanted to talk economics...that's as simple as I can put it. Supply/demand. If the best overall player in the Chiefs mind is a 3-4 OLB...you think there is a chance in hell they take him given they have Houston/Hali?

There, in fact, is NOT a "QB shortage." Geno Smith SHOULD NOT be considered a "top 10 pick." THAT'S BEEN MY WHOLE POINT!! He's not worth a top 10 selection, let alone #1 overall. The 2013 QB market for the Chiefs will include Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson, *Aaron Murray, Matt Barkley, Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith, Mike Vick, Matt Moore, Nick Foles, Matt Cassell, Ricky Stanzi, and any number of later round draft picks. The supply is there. I'm not going to spend $10 on a bunch of bruised bananas (Geno) when I could spend $3 on a bunch of bruised bananas (any other QB). This decision isn't about supply and demand. It's about bang for the buck. If you don't recognize the value in draft picks, then you have no room complaining about the Tyson Jackson selection.

Since the Chiefs will be adjusting their 3-4 scheme and will probably be cutting Tyson Jackson, then yes... I would bet that an OLB would be their selection at #1 overall. There's also nothing to say they couldn't trade Hali or Houston for additional draft picks. My guess is that they would move one of the guys to a different LB position or Hali to DE considering he's the exact same body type and player as the DEs who play in the NYG 3-4 system.



Please, open your eyes to the "BPA" lingo. It's what everyone says. And I agree with you...it is economics. You're just misunderstanding economics.

The "Best Player Available" lingo is used by everyone across the league. You're kidding yourself if they don't put positional needs Into their "best player" rankings. Please wake up to this. If you still want to debate economics...I'm ready. Explain to me how the Economics course you took justifies your position, please.

I would recommend you crack those economics books back open. There is plenty of supply in this market. Your misunderstanding becomes apparent when you think Geno Smith represents a franchise QB when in fact, he's just another name on a list of at least 10 guys who are expected to be average to above average in the '13 QB market.

Your conclusion of what you think Geno Smith IS, is flawed. Like I said before, your argument is that we should spend $10 on a bunch of bruised bananas when we could get a comparable bunch of bananas for much less. It's a losing argument and deeply flawed. If you agree that Geno Smith IS NOT Andrew Luck or RGIII, then your argument of "supply and demand" does not fit here. If there were a consensus "franchise QB" in this draft, your argument would be valid (so, at least you have that).

I would suggest you read up on utilization of resources... not to mention brushing up on your QB evaluations.

Three7s
01-19-2013, 03:43 PM
Like I said earlier if we draft Geno I don't think he is ready to start the first game of the year to many things that need work like getting under center and learning how to make 3, 5 and 7 step drops, we may have to start a veteran QB and it might be Cassel if Reid thinks he can get the job done and then in the middle of the season or 2014 Geno might be ready to take over. Do you really think we are going to the SB next year.
If you watched WV, there were plenty of times where Geno goes under center. If you watched the video, there was an entire section dedicated to him looking through progressions, and just about everything else that goes into the QB position.

I never said the Chiefs are going to the SB if they draft Geno. That's ridiculous. I've stated over and over again that I want Geno Smith because he has the most upside of any QB in the draft, without question. Give him a chance and he could be elite, unlike the game-managers in FA that most on here are content with.

Ryfo18
01-19-2013, 05:14 PM
I would recommend you crack those economics books back open. There is plenty of supply in this market. Your misunderstanding becomes apparent when you think Geno Smith represents a franchise QB when in fact, he's just another name on a list of at least 10 guys who are expected to be average to above average in the '13 QB market.

Your conclusion of what you think Geno Smith IS, is flawed. Like I said before, your argument is that we should spend $10 on a bunch of bruised bananas when we could get a comparable bunch of bananas for much less. It's a losing argument and deeply flawed. If you agree that Geno Smith IS NOT Andrew Luck or RGIII, then your argument of "supply and demand" does not fit here. If there were a consensus "franchise QB" in this draft, your argument would be valid (so, at least you have that).

I would suggest you read up on utilization of resources... not to mention brushing up on your QB evaluations.

Thanks for the attack of my evaluation skills. I'll gladly revisit this in 2-3 years, Mr. Te'o #1 overall and Burfict in the 1st round. I am fully convinced Geno will be the best QB in this class. So we'll agree to disagree on that.

As far as the Chiefs, If they don't want to take Geno in round 1, I think the next best at the beginning of TD 2 is Zac Dysert. The more I watch him, the more I see things I like.

N TX Dave
01-19-2013, 05:50 PM
I never said the Chiefs are going to the SB if they draft Geno. That's ridiculous. I've stated over and over again that I want Geno Smith because he has the most upside of any QB in the draft, without question. Give him a chance and he could be elite, unlike the game-managers in FA that most on here are content with.

If Geno can't take us to a SB why are you so high to draft him? I do not want to draft a QB with the first pick in the draft if I am not 99% sure he can take the team to the SB on his shoulders. If he doesn't the 1st pick was wasted, a #1 QB pick has to be a difference maker to the team if not you are getting nothing but a another game-manager with the first pick.

Three7s
01-19-2013, 08:32 PM
If Geno can't take us to a SB why are you so high to draft him? I do not want to draft a QB with the first pick in the draft if I am not 99% sure he can take the team to the SB on his shoulders. If he doesn't the 1st pick was wasted, a #1 QB pick has to be a difference maker to the team if not you are getting nothing but a another game-manager with the first pick.
I should've been more specific. I think that Geno can get us to a SB in the future. That's what I meant by "higher upside". It'd be crazy to think a rookie QB can instantly mean SB in this league.

nigeriannightmare
01-19-2013, 10:59 PM
Thanks for the attack of my evaluation skills. I'll gladly revisit this in 2-3 years, Mr. Te'o #1 overall and Burfict in the 1st round. I am fully convinced Geno will be the best QB in this class. So we'll agree to disagree on that.

As far as the Chiefs, If they don't want to take Geno in round 1, I think the next best at the beginning of TD 2 is Zac Dysert. The more I watch him, the more I see things I like.

In regards to vontaze burfict dude was lights out. And from what I have read he was THE leader of the Bengal D. He had a pretty good impact on that team. How he went undrafted is kind of astounding. That kid can play some football.

Ryfo18
01-19-2013, 11:51 PM
In regards to vontaze burfict dude was lights out. And from what I have read he was THE leader of the Bengal D. He had a pretty good impact on that team. How he went undrafted is kind of astounding. That kid can play some football.

I don't disagree at all. Just pointing out that a certain someone in these forums called him a 1st rounder last year. He's a solid MLB.

Ryfo18
01-20-2013, 12:27 AM
I should also point out that in terms of QB evaluation, I was one of the biggest Russell Wilson advocates last year. I really hoped the Chiefs took him w/ the Stephenson pick (he went one pick later).

You can question me all day long, and I've been wrong plenty of times. I'll gladly have it known that Geno is my #1 QB prospect, Wilson #2, Dysert #3, Nassib/Glennon/Barkley all in that next tier.

texaschief
01-20-2013, 06:02 AM
Thanks for the attack of my evaluation skills. I'll gladly revisit this in 2-3 years, Mr. Te'o #1 overall and Burfict in the 1st round. I am fully convinced Geno will be the best QB in this class. So we'll agree to disagree on that.

As far as the Chiefs, If they don't want to take Geno in round 1, I think the next best at the beginning of TD 2 is Zac Dysert. The more I watch him, the more I see things I like.

:lol: :lol: Te'o and Burfict will have MUCH better careers than Geno Smith. Take it to the bank. When I suggested Burfict in the first round, it was early in the draft process and I was assuming he'd take the draft process as serious as any other LB wanting to turn pro. That didn't happen. I'm pretty sure my final mock had him picked in the 6th or 7th round. But you're right, Jerome Long was a MUCH better pick... it's not like we could've used the Bengal's leading tackler at ILB this year or anything... Hell, didn't ALL 1st round picks lead their teams in tackles, get mentioned in defensive player of the year discussions, and garner pro bowl votes? I'd still take Te'o before I'd take Smith.

BTW, since you brought up supply and demand earlier, I thought I'd get your thoughts on the fact that there will be perhaps ONLY 2 legit franchise type LTs on the free agent market in Jake Long and Branden Albert. If the Chiefs choose not to re-sign Albert who suddenly has back issues, wouldn't it behoove the Chiefs to take the only legit franchise-type LT in this draft #1 overall (you know, since there would be a demand) instead of drafting just another name on a long list of above-average QBs who will be available to the Chiefs in '13?

I mean, if I could get a franchise LT and an above-average QB with my first 2 picks, wouldn't that be better than an above average QB and a LT (or any other player) who wasn't even taken in the first round of a weak draft class? Even if management agreed with your assessment of Smith, even YOU would have to agree that the difference between Geno Smith and whichever QB is available at #34 overall isn't anywhere NEAR the difference between the BPA at #1 and the BPA at #34. It's not even close. If Geno Smith is better than your other guy, Zac Dysert, it's probably only a head above... but the difference between Joekel and Barrett Jones or Lane Johnson is like head, shoulders, waist and knees difference. It's all economics again... opportunity cost at its finest. Why should I spend $5 on Fiji water if I'm hungry AND thirsty when I could spend $2 on Dasani and get a $3 hotdog as well? The difference between Fiji and Dasani isn't big enough to go without the hotdog if I have a demand for both. Allowing Albert to walk frees up cap space and provides an opportunity to upgrade at the position while still getting a nice, cool bottle of water in the 2nd round in the form of the best QB available.

It's amazing to me that you think a system QB who failed to put up NCAA record-breaking stats in a conference known for offense and weak defenses is worth the #1 pick overall. A QB who failed to LEAD his team to more than 2 victories over his final 8 games. Smith had one victory to hang his hat on ALL season and it was a last minute victory in Austin against an average Texas team with a defense ranked 77th.

Why are we suppose to be blown away by performances against Marshall (5-7, 123 ranked D), James Madison (D1-AA 7-5) , Maryland (4-8 56 ranked D), Baylor (8-5 113 ranked D), Kansas (1-11 112 ranked D) , and Iowa State (6-7 38 ranked D)?

When you look at film on Geno, do you take into account that the teams he beat had an average defensive rank of 88th? Did you know he LOST to teams with defensive rankings of 92nd (TT), 28th (KSU), 30 (TCU), 64th (OSU), 50th (OU), and 46th (SU)? Any average to above-average defense he faced shut him down... well, outside the juggernaut Iowa State of course.

Of the 4205 yards Smith passed for in 2012, 3,054 were accumulated against teams ranked 56 or worse on defense. That means, in the other 5 games out of the year where he had to play teams ranked 55th or better, he could only manage roughly 1/4 of his TOTAL OUTPUT. The best defense he played against (Kansas St. only 28th defensively) held your "franchise QB" to a pathetic 143 total yards with 2 INTs.

This kid never even SAW a good defense. He never faced a defense chalk full of NFL type talent like Alabama or Florida St. He never saw defenses like Florida or LSU who CONSTANTLY put pressure on the QB. We saw him give up 2 safeties in his bowl game against Syracuse who applied a little pressure, but you think that what you saw from Geno Smith winning against defenses statistically ranked 88th on average is enough to warrant the #1 overall selection?

A guy who never saw a really good defense and who was shut down by average ones... THAT'S your guy?

Can you explain why Geno Smith's 2012 season in a swing pass and screen offense against poor defenses in the Big 12 is better than Tyler Wilson's 2011 season in an NFL style offense in the SEC West with NFL style defenses? What has you so "fully convinced" that Smith's performance has him head and shoulders above Wilson as a "franchise QB" worthy of the #1 overall selection? I'm genuinely curious because your entire argument is based on your opinion that it's Geno Smith, and then everyone else is a GIANT step down from him.

You know what, I'm bored... Let's do an experiment. I typed in "2013 NFL draft board" into google. We'll look at the top 5 responses and see where they've got Geno.

CBS Sports has him ranked 11th in the draft.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

Walter Football has him ranked 16th
http://walterfootball.com/draft2013bigboard.php

ESPN/Mel Kiper- Smith is NOT RANKED in the top 25. In fact, Kiper has him ranked as the 3rd best QB. But, his top QB is ranked 24th... so let's say he's the best QB in the draft and rank him 24th.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8847855/2013-nfl-draft-offensive-line-defensive-line-dominate-big-board

NFL.com has him ranked 14th.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000126841/article/luke-joeckel-damontre-moore-top-2013-nfl-draft-big-board

FFToolbox has him ranked 7th.
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2013/top-nfl-prospects-for-2013.cfm

So, out of the top 5 google responses, we had ESPN, CBS, and NFL.com weigh in with 2 independent blogs to give Geno Smith an average player ranking of 14. Middle of the first round.

Now, let's assume each player is WORTH the value of the corresponding draft pick. Geno Smith would be worth 1100 points according to the NFL draft pick value chart: http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

According to the same chart, the Chiefs' #1 pick is worth 3000 points. The difference between the 1100 points Geno is relatively worth and the 3000 points the Chiefs possess is a total of 1900 points. According to the value chart, if the Chiefs took Geno Smith #1 overall, it would be the same as if they took Smith with the 4th AND 14th picks. Would you spend the 4th AND 14th picks for Geno Smith? Let's just pretend that the team picking 14th in the first round is the team that will be picking 14th in every round (not likely, but let's pretend.) In order for that team to move from the 14th spot all the way up to the 1st spot, they'd have to give up their 14th pick (1100pts), their 46th pick (440 pts), 78th pick (200 pts), 110th pick (74 pts), 142nd pick (35 pts), 174th pick (21.8), plus a 2014 5th round pick just to make the math right. For those scoring at home, that's 7 picks to move up 13 spots.

Positional value and importance to any particular team does not mean they should just ignore value lost just because it fills a hole. Teams need to fill holes in the most efficient manner.

Let's do the same experiment but look at where those sources had Luke Joekel ranked:

CBS- Ranked #1
ESPN- Ranked #4
NFL- Ranked #1
Walterfootball- #2
FFToolbox- Ranked #1

So, the two most obvious paths the Chiefs could take are:

Option A:
Chiefs spend $9M/yr or $10M/yr if franchised on Branden Albert
Chiefs spend $8M/yr or franchise Dwayne Bowe at $10M
Chiefs draft Geno Smith #1 overall

After spending so much money on Bowe and Albert, the Chiefs are close to tapped out as far as the cap is concerned and can't do anything else to upgrade the team.

Option B:
Chiefs let Albert walk/save $10M/yr
Chiefs re-sign/franchise Bowe
Chiefs draft Joekel #1 at $4M/yr
Chiefs draft 3rd or 4th best QB in the draft in the 2nd round (assuming the solution isn't found before then).


The more you look at the situation, the more it becomes apparent that the best solution for the Chiefs is to draft the BPA at #1 who could fill/upgrade the 2nd most important position on the team while also saving $6M/yr in cap space instead of gambling the pick on a player like Geno Smith who everyone seems to disagree about. It's REALLY hard to argue that the Chiefs should take such an enormous risk on Smith when you look at the residual benefits of planning on taking Joekel in the draft and letting Albert walk. He's better and cheaper than Albert and if they're not 100% sold on Geno Smith as the second coming of Steve Young or Rich Gannon, the stars couldn't have aligned any better for the Chiefs.

The Chiefs may not have a GREAT option at the QB position in this draft, but they DO have a GREAT option at the 2nd most important position on the field. A GREAT option at the LT position is > a good option at the QB position... especially in a weak class that presents comparable talent in the 2nd round.




However, I still think the ideal scenario is for the Chiefs to trade down. But if they stay at #1 overall, Joekel makes too much sense to pass on.

nigeriannightmare
01-20-2013, 08:49 AM
I should also point out that in terms of QB evaluation, I was one of the biggest Russell Wilson advocates last year. I really hoped the Chiefs took him w/ the Stephenson pick (he went one pick later).

You can question me all day long, and I've been wrong plenty of times. I'll gladly have it known that Geno is my #1 QB prospect, Wilson #2, Dysert #3, Nassib/Glennon/Barkley all in that next tier.

We all keep making the case for or against Geno. And I have no idea which is why I am asking. Who is the possible russel Wilson of this draft. Since we will be drafting at the top of the 3rd and a supplemental 3rd is there a russel Wilson type sleeper. Or is this class really that weak on talent at the QB spot.

Three7s
01-20-2013, 11:38 AM
For those of you saying Geno is "inaccurate" and most of his completions are from short easy passes, read this.

Geno Smith: A Tale in Accuracy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/10/3862228/geno-smith-a-tale-in-accuracy)

texaschief
01-20-2013, 01:46 PM
For those of you saying Geno is "inaccurate" and most of his completions are from short easy passes, read this.

Geno Smith: A Tale in Accuracy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/10/3862228/geno-smith-a-tale-in-accuracy)

Still never beat or even faced a top 25 defense and had the benefit of having WRs who were MUCH better than the players they played against. The more you look at Geno Smith, the more he looks like pyrite.

fairladyZ
01-20-2013, 01:47 PM
For those of you saying Geno is "inaccurate" and most of his completions are from short easy passes, read this.

Geno Smith: A Tale in Accuracy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/10/3862228/geno-smith-a-tale-in-accuracy)

I've read everything on geno, i've watched tons of tape of geno, and i've seen all the charts on geno's accuracy. And there is no denying the kid is accurate but again like texaschief said. He does it against VERY VERY bad defenses where his windows are huge. He has 2 all pro recievers that create alot of seperation against below par defenses, Hence geno can just sit and lock onto his #1 read and wait for them to open. He won't have that luxury in the NFL and he didn't have that luxury when facing good Defenses in college. Once those windows shrink and he has constant pressure on him he will not be the QB you guys have fallen in love with. Now can he overcome and evolve his game? I honestly don't know, my personal opinion is that he will be a mediocre QB in this league. I want our next franchise QB as bad as anyone, but i don't think geno is him, he would just be a stop gap like we have right now so why waste it on him?

I will also say that i don't like the joekel pick, i hope brandon's back is fine and we can resign him, i hope we sign bowe, and if we are curious about albert at all then just franchise him and see how he plays this year and see how the back plays out. But if there is any question at all his back becomes and issue like gaither's and he will only be a shadow of his former self then we take joekel.

My endorsement on QB would be Barkley, or Wilson. Both have played and succeeded against some of the best defenses in NCAA and both are very smart. Wilson obviously has the size and arm advantage, but barkley has the smarts and style advantage. I see wilson being a great QB, he handles pressure well, strong armed and is pretty smart with the football.
I see barkley as great to elite QB in this league. He's smart as hell, he's been groomed since a child to play this game, his mechanics are perfect, he's a general on the field, calls plays at the line and checks in and out of plays depending on the defese ala peyton manning, barkley also plays the chess game at the LOS, which i did not know about until recently, that kiffin gives barkley free control of the offense when they get to the line of scrimmage to call plays or change the plays. Wish barkley was a bit bigger, but he's got everything else. He can make EVERY throw that any other QB in this draft can make, he's accurate in the pocket and on the run, he's got great touch on his passes and he can rifle them in when needed. I've just watched alot of tape on him and like him alot i think he could be really special especially in a WCO that is similar to what he's run all his college career and like what reid will run.

texaschief
01-20-2013, 02:40 PM
I've read everything on geno, i've watched tons of tape of geno, and i've seen all the charts on geno's accuracy. And there is no denying the kid is accurate but again like texaschief said. He does it against VERY VERY bad defenses where his windows are huge. He has 2 all pro recievers that create alot of seperation against below par defenses, Hence geno can just sit and lock onto his #1 read and wait for them to open. He won't have that luxury in the NFL and he didn't have that luxury when facing good Defenses in college. Once those windows shrink and he has constant pressure on him he will not be the QB you guys have fallen in love with. Now can he overcome and evolve his game? I honestly don't know, my personal opinion is that he will be a mediocre QB in this league. I want our next franchise QB as bad as anyone, but i don't think geno is him, he would just be a stop gap like we have right now so why waste it on him?

I will also say that i don't like the joekel pick, i hope brandon's back is fine and we can resign him, i hope we sign bowe, and if we are curious about albert at all then just franchise him and see how he plays this year and see how the back plays out. But if there is any question at all his back becomes and issue like gaither's and he will only be a shadow of his former self then we take joekel.

My endorsement on QB would be Barkley, or Wilson. Both have played and succeeded against some of the best defenses in NCAA and both are very smart. Wilson obviously has the size and arm advantage, but barkley has the smarts and style advantage. I see wilson being a great QB, he handles pressure well, strong armed and is pretty smart with the football.
I see barkley as great to elite QB in this league. He's smart as hell, he's been groomed since a child to play this game, his mechanics are perfect, he's a general on the field, calls plays at the line and checks in and out of plays depending on the defese ala peyton manning, barkley also plays the chess game at the LOS, which i did not know about until recently, that kiffin gives barkley free control of the offense when they get to the line of scrimmage to call plays or change the plays. Wish barkley was a bit bigger, but he's got everything else. He can make EVERY throw that any other QB in this draft can make, he's accurate in the pocket and on the run, he's got great touch on his passes and he can rifle them in when needed. I've just watched alot of tape on him and like him alot i think he could be really special especially in a WCO that is similar to what he's run all his college career and like what reid will run.

I have to agree. When we look back at this QB draft class, we'll see that Barkley and Wilson will be the top 2 QBs. Although, Aaron Murray may have something to say about that if he declares.

Albert is not worth $6M MORE than Joekel. If any of Barkley, Wilson, or Murray could be available in the 2nd or for an inexpensive trade-up back into the 1st round, then I think saving the extra cash and upgrading at the LT position is a no-brainer at #1. The Browns did the same thing in '07. They "missed out" on the great JaMarcus Russell so, they went LT at #2 and then traded back into the 1st to take Quinn just before the Chiefs took Bowe.

If the Browns had the #1 pick, do you think they would've been better off with the "can't miss" JaMarcus Russell or Joe Thomas? Same thing applies to the Chiefs... except, as of right now, there isn't a "can't miss" QB prospect in this draft. The Chiefs have a tight cap situation, have questions about the future of their current LT and have the opportunity to draft a great replacement while saving $6M/yr in the process while still having an opportunity to draft one of the top 4 (interchangeable) QBs in the 2nd round.

fairladyZ
01-20-2013, 02:49 PM
Murray already said he's going back to georgia so he's out.

Joekel may be just as good as albert he may not, if alberts back is 100% and no other issue yes i would rather spend 6m more for him as he is proven and a stud and already fits with our guys, he only allowed 1 sack this whole season until he got hurt. He's a beast and at the tops in this league at his position, Now i'm not saying we shouldn't look into joekel if there is any doubt in albert's back then yes we let him walk and we get joekel.

My honest scenario's is we are able to trade back into the teens and pick the QB that best fits us that is left, and we acquire another 2nd and pick up a LB and a CB in the 2nd. All this hinging on albert's back being ok though.

I know letting albert walk will save 6m against the cap but honestly for a PROVEN LT it's worth it, we can make up the 6m in other places, like letting jackson walk, restructure cassel, sign bowe instead of tag him, hillis and quinn are walking, I think we'll be okay with gray and draughn behind charles until later. Sign dorsey to a cap friendly deal.

If we don't take a Qb at #1 i hope your right and we do trade back into the 1st but like you said it would require alot!

You know the math and points of the draft better what would it take for us to move back into the teens? 20 at the highest?

I think if we pass on geno i think he goes to the raiders, and i think barkley goes to the cardinals, and wilson is the crap shoot i still think he may go before #20 though.

texaschief
01-20-2013, 03:14 PM
To move into the teens, it'll cost our 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. I think we only make a move if it's to the 20s. That may only cost our 2nd and a 4th.

fairladyZ
01-20-2013, 03:17 PM
but as much as we say there is no value in a QB at our #1 is there a QB worth the value of giving up those picks for?

I'm starting to think we take a QB prospect in the 3rd to compete with cassel, and look to future drafts when we can get a QB hopefully where we will be drafting in the high teens or 20's.

Three7s
01-20-2013, 03:18 PM
Okay, I want everyone's opinion on this.

Matt Ryan is widely considered to be a great QB on the verge of becoming elite, which will probably happen if he beats the 49ers and makes the SB. He's been productive just about every year, just chokes in the playoffs. Much like Peyton Manning.

Even so, is there anyone feels like Jake Long, the guy who went #1 overall in 2008 would be better than Matt Ryan, who went two picks later? Miami decided to go with the veteran for short-term success, rather than the franchise guy, and where has that gotten them? Well, now they have Tannehill, but Ryan is, obviously, a sure thing.

It just boggles my mind to see people on here want to do the same thing, rather than take a potential franchise QB. Again, I know there's risk, but this team will continue to be bad-mediocre unless we get a franchise QB. A LT isn't going to change anything.

fairladyZ
01-20-2013, 03:31 PM
i agree that it blew up in miami's face but we can't play devil's advocate here, Atlanta has had a GREAT o-line and solid LT, who's to say ryan would go to miami and do what he has done with the falcons, he could have just been beaten to pulp behind a bad o-line, instead miami went with the LT to get the line secured, they just never stepped up and took the franchise QB until tannehill, who knows how he will turn out as he also doesn't have the weapons on the edge like ryan did/does.

I would have killed to get matt ryan and i wanted him until we lost that damn coin toss!

But the thing is, none of these QB's in this draft really compare to ryan, the only 2 that might would be wilson and bray. Wilson i don't think is as smart as ryan was, and bray is to much of a headcase. I already feel that ryan is elite, if people consider manning elite then i consider ryan elite.

We can't always just sit back and compare 2 different teams and say what if, since they have different holes and different weapons, the falcons fit ryan perfectly and they've done the perfect job getting the weapons that elavate his game to elite. Miami did a good thing with Long but they didn't build on that, they switched coach after coach and just screwed it all up.

nigeriannightmare
01-20-2013, 03:40 PM
Jake spavitol who was the QB coach at W Virginia and is currently on the staff at Texas A and M in the same roll. Spavitol went to Missouri state but was a qb for union high school in Oklahoma and won 3 st championships and was injured. Anyhow he's at a party I am at and we are talking football. HE WAS GENO'S QB COACH FOR 2 YEARS! EXACT WORDS ARE GENO IS A PUNK! HE THINKS MORE OF HIMSELF THAN ANYONE HE HAS EVER COME ACROSS! Said if he was such a punk he'd be elite! But his attitude is terrible. Jake spavitol! Google it!

fairladyZ
01-20-2013, 03:45 PM
Schefter was just on ESPN, saying that talking to people around the league, right now he expects Matt Barkley to be the first QB taken in the draft.

fairladyZ
01-20-2013, 03:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/E9MdPFFx0k0?rel=0
do not want

Three7s
01-20-2013, 03:59 PM
If this is really true, then I'm off the Geno bandwagon, plain and simple. There's no way to really know until the Combine, so I'll reserve judgement until then.

My argument up until now is that I've felt that Geno has the most upside at the QB position to become elite. The attitude stuff will come out at the Combine.

fairladyZ
01-20-2013, 04:03 PM
If this is really true, then I'm off the Geno bandwagon, plain and simple. There's no way to really know until the Combine, so I'll reserve judgement until then.

My argument up until now is that I've felt that Geno has the most upside at the QB position to become elite. The attitude stuff will come out at the Combine.

I want that franchise QB just as bad, but i don't want to sacrifice who knows how many years if we don't do it right. These character issues have been leaking out for awhile now little bits and pieces. We don't know the whole story or all of it, who knows who does but the fact that they are coming out now is kind of a red flag for me. The coaches, scouts, and staff will talk to all these people about it and get the truth. Just like alot of scouts and NFL insiders have said they don't see geno going #1 and this could be a reason, they probably know more then all of us here.

I want to take the QB that is going to elevate this team and these players to elite levels, and same goes for our players to elevate our QB to elite levels, don't care who it is!

texaschief
01-20-2013, 04:14 PM
Okay, I want everyone's opinion on this.

Matt Ryan is widely considered to be a great QB on the verge of becoming elite, which will probably happen if he beats the 49ers and makes the SB. He's been productive just about every year, just chokes in the playoffs. Much like Peyton Manning.

Even so, is there anyone feels like Jake Long, the guy who went #1 overall in 2008 would be better than Matt Ryan, who went two picks later? Miami decided to go with the veteran for short-term success, rather than the franchise guy, and where has that gotten them? Well, now they have Tannehill, but Ryan is, obviously, a sure thing.

It just boggles my mind to see people on here want to do the same thing, rather than take a potential franchise QB. Again, I know there's risk, but this team will continue to be bad-mediocre unless we get a franchise QB. A LT isn't going to change anything.

Do you think the Raiders would rather have JaMarcus Russell or Joe Thomas?

QB, LT, an elite pass rusher, or the next Ray Lewis are the only positions I'd be comfortable taking with the #1 pick overall. Don't need pass rushers. There are no elite QBs, and no Ray Lewis... so either trade down or take the elite LT.

Unless the Chiefs find a trade partner, the only logical pick is Joekel.

Ryfo18
01-20-2013, 04:49 PM
We all keep making the case for or against Geno. And I have no idea which is why I am asking. Who is the possible russel Wilson of this draft. Since we will be drafting at the top of the 3rd and a supplemental 3rd is there a russel Wilson type sleeper. Or is this class really that weak on talent at the QB spot.

I honestly don't see one. Russell is so rare, and even I didn't see this coming from him. I thought he would be good, but he grew so much this year.


Still never beat or even faced a top 25 defense and had the benefit of having WRs who were MUCH better than the players they played against. The more you look at Geno Smith, the more he looks like pyrite.

Then I guess you're just completely discounting that he had pretty much the same passing stats as RGIII in 2011...Both faced a lot of the same Big 12 defenses.

Or the LSU game in 2011 (they played in the BCS championship) when he threw for 463 yards. The 21 points West Virginia put up that game was tied for the 2nd most all year against the LSU D. That's some good tape to go look at. He misses some throws in that game, but he consistently challenged them 10+ yards down the field.

As for your other long post, which I won't quote just to save space, I agree with you that if they don't bring back Albert, Joeckel is a safe, vanilla pick. I'm not going to argue against it. It doesn't make the team any better personnel wise though. We do have the advantage of getting a younger guy in there though (provided he lives up to his billing).

But here lies basically what I've been trying to argue this whole time. EVERYONE screams take the best player available. Well if Joeckel is the best player available and who we take if Albert doesn't come back, then why don't we take Joeckel if Albert does come back? He's the best player...I mean, pound the frikkin table for him.

It's because, like I said, positional needs factor into their player grades in the end (increased demand = increased value in the QB position). Thus why Geno could potentially be at the top of their draft board. I won't argue the Geno stuff anymore, I've said my peace on it and that's who I hope we take. I'd be happy with Wilson at the same pick, or Dysert in round 2. But I think this team is best served by drafting Geno.

texaschief
01-20-2013, 11:18 PM
Then I guess you're just completely discounting that he had pretty much the same passing stats as RGIII in 2011...Both faced a lot of the same Big 12 defenses.

RGIII averaged 3 more yards per attempt than Smith, is a much better athlete and more mobile than Smith, and finished his senior season with a 10-3 record just to name a few key differences. I'm pretty sure you don't want to start comparing Geno Smith to RGIII.

Or the LSU game in 2011 (they played in the BCS championship) when he threw for 463 yards. The 21 points West Virginia put up that game was tied for the 2nd most all year against the LSU D. That's some good tape to go look at. He misses some throws in that game, but he consistently challenged them 10+ yards down the field.

Again, if we're looking at the 2011 season, Tyler Wilson blows Geno Smith away...

As for your other long post, which I won't quote just to save space, I agree with you that if they don't bring back Albert, Joeckel is a safe, vanilla pick. I'm not going to argue against it. It doesn't make the team any better personnel wise though. We do have the advantage of getting a younger guy in there though (provided he lives up to his billing).

It may not make it a whole lot better, but it sure as hell prevents a giant step backward if either the Chiefs don't re-sign Albert or if he gets hurt. I can't even imagine how many posts you'd be throwing out there, giving excuse after excuse for Geno Smith's failures if neither Albert nor Joekel were on this team.

But here lies basically what I've been trying to argue this whole time. EVERYONE screams take the best player available. Well if Joeckel is the best player available and who we take if Albert doesn't come back, then why don't we take Joeckel if Albert does come back? He's the best player...I mean, pound the frikkin table for him.

Filling a MAJOR need at #1 with the 2nd or 3rd best player in the draft is quite different than filling that need with the 14th best player in the draft. I'd love to see an O-line with Albert AND Joekel... not sure many fans would disagree. With the depth this team currently has on the O-line, it probably wouldn't be the best utilization of resources... but that obviously doesn't matter to you, so why would you care now that the principal is applied to LT instead of QB.

It's because, like I said, positional needs factor into their player grades in the end (increased demand = increased value in the QB position). Thus why Geno could potentially be at the top of their draft board. I won't argue the Geno stuff anymore, I've said my peace on it and that's who I hope we take. I'd be happy with Wilson at the same pick, or Dysert in round 2. But I think this team is best served by drafting Geno.

:beat_DeadHorse:

Ryfo18
01-20-2013, 11:33 PM
Ha, I'm not comparing RGIII to Smith at all. RGIII is the better QB. The argument wasn't who was better (you're trying to change the subject), it was that Geno hadn't faced good competition, which you completely ignored in your last post. He faced the same competition as RGIII (Weeden and Tannehill too) and put up similar passing numbers was all I said. I'll just assume that you agree with me that he has faced some good competition, since you ignored it and tried to say I said Smith was better than RGIII.

Albert/Joeckel on the line? Are we going to move Albert to guard again? I refuse to even partake in this nonsense. The Chiefs will not entertain having two left tackles on this team. It's Albert, or Joeckel. And again, just using that as fuel for why "best player available" is just something every team says. When Cleveland moved up, why didn't they take Kalil last year? Everyone had him higher on their board than Richardson.

As far as Tyler Wilson "blowing" Geno Smith away in 2011, I don't agree with that at all. Put Wilson in the Big 12 and he maybe has as good a 2011 season as Geno. I'll tell you this, Geno outplayed him vs LSU. And what about the two in 2012?

AkChief49
01-20-2013, 11:34 PM
Jake spavitol who was the QB coach at W Virginia and is currently on the staff at Texas A and M in the same roll. Spavitol went to Missouri state but was a qb for union high school in Oklahoma and won 3 st championships and was injured. Anyhow he's at a party I am at and we are talking football. HE WAS GENO'S QB COACH FOR 2 YEARS! EXACT WORDS ARE GENO IS A PUNK! HE THINKS MORE OF HIMSELF THAN ANYONE HE HAS EVER COME ACROSS! Said if he was such a punk he'd be elite! But his attitude is terrible. Jake spavitol! Google it!
His body language on the sidelines told me the same thing. The combine, or rather the interviews at the combine will tell us a lot more.

N TX Dave
01-21-2013, 01:08 AM
From NFL Analysis (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000121092/article/geno-smith-matt-barkley-headline-2013-nfl-draft-quarterbacks)
Smith was one of the game's hottest quarterback prospects after a sizzling early-season run saw him put up ridiculous numbers directing the Mountaineers' high-powered attack. Smith dazzled scouts with his arm strength, accuracy and touch while displaying exceptional poise in the pocket. However, Smith faltered down the stretch against the tougher defenses of the Big 12; scouts started to have concerns about his ability to find his secondary options in the route progression when opponents take away his primary receiver with blanket coverage. He struggled to consistently identify the open receiver in games against Oklahoma, Kansas State and Texas Tech, a trend that continued in the New Era Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse. Although Smith completed 66.7 percent of his passes with two touchdowns and zero interceptions, he was sacked three times and repeatedly looked confused when the Orange took away his No. 1 option. As a result, Syracuse blew out West Virginia, 38-14.
Plan for success: To capitalize on Smith's outstanding skills as a quick-rhythm pocket passer, an NFL offensive coordinator would be wise to incorporate several spread concepts. Bubble screens, slants and various seam throws are staples of the Mountaineers' offensive package, so using those routes as a foundation should help make Smith comfortable. In addition, the utilization of a play-action vertical passing game from the shotgun would create the big-play opportunities that Smith feasted on while directing Dana Holgorsen's offense.
Pro comparison: Jason Campbell (http://www.nfl.com/player/jasoncampbell/2506364/profile)


From CBS (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664302)
Clearly his statistics have been inflated by coach Dana Holgorsen's high-octane passing attack, but make no mistake Smith is blessed with some intriguing traits that helped him shred a talented Clemson defense with 401 passing yards and six touchdown tosses -- each of which eclipsed Orange Bowl records.
Despite his gaudy statistics, there are some warts to Smith's game. He takes virtually every snap from shotgun, is inconsistent with his set-up and delivery, often throwing off his back foot and has only average accuracy, at this time, on deeper throws -- especially those that require touch.
Against the notoriously leaky secondaries of the Big 12 conference, Smith is eye-popping statistics this season, perhaps earning himself all-conference, All-American and perhaps even Heisman consideration, but he does have mechanical issues to work on.

Bike
01-21-2013, 07:33 AM
His body language on the sidelines told me the same thing. The combine, or rather the interviews at the combine will tell us a lot more.
I'm sure he'll be on his best behavior at these events.

MissingTBone
01-21-2013, 02:56 PM
From NFL Analysis (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000121092/article/geno-smith-matt-barkley-headline-2013-nfl-draft-quarterbacks)
Smith was one of the game's hottest quarterback prospects after a sizzling early-season run saw him put up ridiculous numbers directing the Mountaineers' high-powered attack. Smith dazzled scouts with his arm strength, accuracy and touch while displaying exceptional poise in the pocket. However, Smith faltered down the stretch against the tougher defenses of the Big 12; scouts started to have concerns about his ability to find his secondary options in the route progression when opponents take away his primary receiver with blanket coverage. He struggled to consistently identify the open receiver in games against Oklahoma, Kansas State and Texas Tech, a trend that continued in the New Era Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse. Although Smith completed 66.7 percent of his passes with two touchdowns and zero interceptions, he was sacked three times and repeatedly looked confused when the Orange took away his No. 1 option. As a result, Syracuse blew out West Virginia, 38-14.
Plan for success: To capitalize on Smith's outstanding skills as a quick-rhythm pocket passer, an NFL offensive coordinator would be wise to incorporate several spread concepts. Bubble screens, slants and various seam throws are staples of the Mountaineers' offensive package, so using those routes as a foundation should help make Smith comfortable. In addition, the utilization of a play-action vertical passing game from the shotgun would create the big-play opportunities that Smith feasted on while directing Dana Holgorsen's offense.
Pro comparison: Jason Campbell (http://www.nfl.com/player/jasoncampbell/2506364/profile)


From CBS (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664302)
Clearly his statistics have been inflated by coach Dana Holgorsen's high-octane passing attack, but make no mistake Smith is blessed with some intriguing traits that helped him shred a talented Clemson defense with 401 passing yards and six touchdown tosses -- each of which eclipsed Orange Bowl records.
Despite his gaudy statistics, there are some warts to Smith's game. He takes virtually every snap from shotgun, is inconsistent with his set-up and delivery, often throwing off his back foot and has only average accuracy, at this time, on deeper throws -- especially those that require touch.
Against the notoriously leaky secondaries of the Big 12 conference, Smith is eye-popping statistics this season, perhaps earning himself all-conference, All-American and perhaps even Heisman consideration, but he does have mechanical issues to work on.

Yeah, this def doesn't soun like a number 1 pick, an honestly to me not even a first rounder. We don't need to waste our pick in the next Jasin Campbell. I'd rather stick with Cassel another year (which I don't really want to do) vs waste our puck on a qb that lock onto his number 1 receiver and can't go thru his progressions. I hope we get the qb right regardless of who we take and from where.

texaschief
01-21-2013, 09:04 PM
132 posts in this thread... mostly about Geno Smith and after having read most of the posts, both good and bad on Smith, I'm pretty confident that Smith won't be the selection if the Chiefs hold onto the #1 pick. If we armchair GMs can find this many problems with Geno Smith, I'm confident that the Chiefs franchise have enough resources to logically surmise that Geno Smith is NOT worth the #1 overall pick... no matter how bad we need a QB.

As our GM Dorsey said when he was asked about a QB #1 overall a couple days ago, "I think there comes too steep of a price." I take two things away from this statement:

1. Dorsey seems to acknowledge the fact that team do, indeed reach in the draft to fill glaring holes on their teams as Ryfo suggests. Although I didn't acknowledge the point Ryfo was trying to make, it was well received. I realize teams reach to fill needs. I saw it first hand when Pioli took Jackson #3 overall and then again when he took Baldwin with the anticipation of replacing Bowe and then again when he took Poe just this last year... I get it. However...

2. The second thing I took away from Dorsey's statement was that he understands the point that I was trying to make... and it's that even if a player happens to fill a need, there is a point where a player becomes too expensive. In the draft, picks are the currency... in free agency, it's money and cap space. Just because a player fills a need in free agency, it doesn't mean you spend the majority of your resources on that player.

You need to find the best way to utilize your resources and spending 75% of your draft value on a player who doesn't deserve it is an EXTREMELY poor investment. The Chiefs have roughly 4000 points to spend in the draft and if they pick 1st, they'll spend 3000 of those points on whoever they take plus $4M in cap space each year... How ANYONE can think Geno Smith is worth that kind of investment is just mind-boggling to me.

A player of Andrew Luck's caliber is worth that kind of investment, but there is a dramatic difference in what is expected from Andrew Luck and what is expected from Geno Smith. Ask yourself if you honestly think the return on investment will be the same for the Chiefs with Geno Smith as it will be for Indy and Andrew Luck. If you don't think Smith offers Andrew Luck upside, why on earth would you spend the same amount for a lesser player? It doesn't make sense.

However, if you desperately need a QB (like the Chiefs do), but there isn't one worth the price at #1, it would make more sense to find a way work yourself into a position where taking a QB is worth the investment. It's like buying a car. Once you've spent the money, it's spent. Players, like cars, are depreciating assets. They may not lose half their value as soon as they put their cleats on, but they have a limited shelf life. Just like vehicles, you need your players to be worth the investment AND serve the purpose for which you pay a premium. If your purpose is strictly gas mileage, a Chevy Volt would be your best option... the problem is that we only have Corollas to choose from. We don't need to pay the price of a $40k Chevy Volt (Andrew Luck) if we're only going to get the benefits of an $18k Toyota Corolla (Geno Smith).

That's a HORRIBLE purchase. The Chiefs need to find a place in the draft where they're paying the price of what the players are worth. What the good teams in the league do, is pay a price of LESS than what the players are worth and maximize their assets. Is it any wonder that a team like the Chiefs who consistently over pay in the draft is one of the worst teams in the league? Now, at least half the fan base is advocating that the team keep overpaying for a guy like Geno Smith as if filling the QB position will somehow lead this franchise out of the darkness instead of good, sound, business and economic principals coupled with heavy investment in the scouting department.

At some point, people need to understand that success isn't delivered by players as much as it is delivered by scouting, sound economic principals, and good coaching. I think that for the first time since Vermeil, this team has a good coaching staff.

Clark Hunt seems to be a very successful business man. Hopefully, we'll start applying some of those principals to the Kansas City Chiefs franchise, because for the last 10-12 years, this franchise has been run into the ground... not by the Matt Cassells and Larry Johnsons of the world, but by the Carl Petersons and Scott Piolis who made poor business decisions including poor investments (Larry Johnson, Matt Cassell), poor draft picks (Sylvester Morris, Ryan Sims, Tyson Jackson), and poor trades (Scott Fujita and Matt Cassell) just to name a few. As great as some of the players have been for the Chiefs over the tenures of the last 2 GMs (including a couple good QBs), the fact remains that the Chiefs haven't seen a Super Bowl in 50 years.

It's not about the players... it's about the front office and coaching staff maximizing the value of their assets and providing a clear and successful direction for the franchise as a whole.

texaschief
01-21-2013, 11:24 PM
Release Tyson Jackson
Let Dorsey Walk
Let Albert Walk
Re-sign Bowe
Re-sign Pitoitua

Free Agent Signings:

WR- Gregg Jennings
TE- Jared Cook
OG- Andy Levitre
LB- Phillip Wheeler

Trades:

Trade 2nd round pick to Minnesota who target the best QB available for picks 52 and 83 (3rd rd).

Trade pick 52 to the Eagles for QB Nick Foles.


Draft:

1st Round
LT Luke Joekel Texas A&M
The Chiefs replace Branden Albert with a less expensive upgrade in Luke Joekel. They get better value with this pick than if they had decided to take a QB #1 overall. Joekel fits into a line that boasts Jon Asamoah, Rodney Hudson, Andy Levitre, and Eric Winston with depth provided by in Stephenson and Allen.

3rd Round
LB Khaseem Greene Rutgers
He's a play-making, game changing LB who was also the back-to-back Big East defensive Player of the year. Greene had arguably the best junior and senior seasons of ANY Big East player. It's unknown as to which flavor of the 3-4 defense we'll be running, but it's a pretty good bet that we'll need LB help no matter what. One Derrick Johnson, one of the great values Greene offers is his versatility and ability to be extremely useful in ANY type of defensive scheme.

3rd Round
3a. (from Vikings)
QB Tyler Bray Tennessee
Tyler Bray is arguably the most talented QB in the 2013 crop. He's foregoing his senior year at Tennessee where he would probably be better served in his development. Bray is a great draft-and-develop prospect who would probably benefit greatly from sitting for a couple seasons to learn Andy Reid's system. The only problem I see with this pick is that Bray is as close to a statue in the pocket as there could possibly be and there haven't been too many of those drafted by Reid. But this is MY mock and I think Bray could be a good pick for the Chiefs if they can protect him.

3c. (compensation for Carr)
S Bacarri Rambo Georgia
The Chiefs need some stability next to Eric Berry. Rambo is a ball-hawking FS that would fit perfectly next to Berry... and let's be honest... that's a badass football name.

4th Round
RB Marcus Lattimore South Carolina
The Chiefs have decent depth behind Charles and this pick is probably superfluous, but c'mon... the best running back in this class is still on the board in the 4th round. There's very little downside to this selection. Yes, he's a risk having had 2 knee surgeries in the past 2 seasons. Gotta couple names for you though: Willis McGahee and Frank Gore. Both of those guys were in the same boat and have had pretty successful NFL careers. I wouldn't consider this player too much of an injury risk considering the circumstances that occurred to cause his injury. Lattimore is 6'0, 232 lbs and could essentially give the Chiefs a Jamaal Charles/Adrian Peterson 1-2 punch for the foreseeable future. Talk about a change of pace back. Can you imagine taking a beating from Lattimore for 6 to 8 plays and then chasing Charles 40 yards and then getting hit in the mouth from Lattimore the next play? ...wow.

5th
DB Tyrann Mathieu LSU (Sat out a year)
Off the field issues should not scare anyone away from top 5 talent in the 5th round. We need another play-maker in the secondary and you couldn't ask for a better one than the "Honey Badger" in the 5th round. (**may be worth a higher pick as we get closer to the draft)

6th Round
WR Ryan Swope Texas A&M
Swope has been A&M's go-to receiver when the Aggies have needed plays to be made. The kid has great hands, runs great routes, and is a fast-twitch player. The small, white WR will undoubtedly draw Wes Welker comparisons. Andy Reid's offense has a serious dependency on great route-runners with good hands... check and check.

7th Round
WR Marquise Goodwin Texas
Olympic athlete with elite speed and play-making ability. Sounds like a good WR option to throw in the mix at WR, KR, and PR.



Assuming the players are available, I really like the first 6 picks. The Chiefs will have a gluttony of WRs if they re-sign Dwayne Bowe, so I could be persuaded to take other players in the 6th and 7th rounds. I just think that when you get that deep in the draft, finding play-makers should be the priority and not necessarily trying to find players to plug holes.

Justin5772002
01-22-2013, 04:21 AM
I think trading away Jarrod Allen was horrible also

texaschief
01-23-2013, 09:49 PM
May need to add Tyler Wilson to the top of the draft. I don't think there's anyway Tyler Wilson gets to the 2nd round or even close enough to the 2nd to trade back into the 1st to grab him.

Three7s
01-23-2013, 10:12 PM
May need to add Tyler Wilson to the top of the draft. I don't think there's anyway Tyler Wilson gets to the 2nd round or even close enough to the 2nd to trade back into the 1st to grab him.
I'd be alright with taking him with the 1st pick.

texaschief
01-23-2013, 10:30 PM
I'd be alright with taking him with the 1st pick.

I like Wilson better than Smith, but unless something big happens between now and the draft, I still think a QB at #1 is a stretch.

Three7s
01-24-2013, 01:09 PM
Tyler Wilson Vs Geno Smith - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/10/3862158/wilson-vs-smith)

Another interesting bit of information in comparing the top two QBs in the draft.

Ryfo18
01-24-2013, 02:05 PM
Tyler Wilson Vs Geno Smith - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/10/3862158/wilson-vs-smith)

Another interesting bit of information in comparing the top two QBs in the draft.

So, Geno has played good defenses?

Three7s
01-24-2013, 02:19 PM
So, Geno has played good defenses?
Yep, and apparently he's beaten more of them than Wilson.

texaschief
01-24-2013, 06:57 PM
That fan post was so cherry-picked, it's pathetic... because if it's one thing we ALL know, it's that the Big 12 is known for their defense... :lol: Do that comp with Wilson on his 2011 team that wasn't dealing with a massive scandal and roster turnover and you'll see VERY different story. Like one where Wilson went 4-2 against top 50 "passing defense" teams and only lost to the 2 BCS Nations Championship contenders who ranked #1 and #8 respectively in TOTAL defense.

Btw, those 4 "top 50 passing defenses" Wilson lost to averaged a rank of 10th TOTAL defense with the worst being 19th and the best being #1. The best TOTAL defensive team the Big 12 could muster up was 16th and they beat West Virginia. The next best TOTAL defensive team the Big 12 could bring to the party was Texas Tech at #38... who THOROUGHLY DOMINATED West Virginia. Next, we come to Kansas St. ranked 45th TOTAL defense and even though K-State won, it was ONLY by a score of 55-14.

So, in short... no... Geno Smith NEVER faced a good defense... and when he faced a top 50 defense, he was absolutely destroyed and embarrassed.

Ryfo18
01-24-2013, 07:03 PM
So, in short... no... Geno Smith NEVER faced a good defense... and when he faced a top 50 defense, he was absolutely destroyed and embarrassed.

I'm pretty sure Geno faced the same LSU D Wilson did in 2011, and put up the 2nd most points against that D all season...And threw for 430+ yards against them. But I could be mistaken.

Your words: NEVER!

Three7s
01-24-2013, 11:04 PM
That fan post was so cherry-picked, it's pathetic... because if it's one thing we ALL know, it's that the Big 12 is known for their defense... :lol: Do that comp with Wilson on his 2011 team that wasn't dealing with a massive scandal and roster turnover and you'll see VERY different story. Like one where Wilson went 4-2 against top 50 "passing defense" teams and only lost to the 2 BCS Nations Championship contenders who ranked #1 and #8 respectively in TOTAL defense.

Btw, those 4 "top 50 passing defenses" Wilson lost to averaged a rank of 10th TOTAL defense with the worst being 19th and the best being #1. The best TOTAL defensive team the Big 12 could muster up was 16th and they beat West Virginia. The next best TOTAL defensive team the Big 12 could bring to the party was Texas Tech at #38... who THOROUGHLY DOMINATED West Virginia. Next, we come to Kansas St. ranked 45th TOTAL defense and even though K-State won, it was ONLY by a score of 55-14.

So, in short... no... Geno Smith NEVER faced a good defense... and when he faced a top 50 defense, he was absolutely destroyed and embarrassed.
Cherry-picked? You act like Geno has never accomplished a single thing in his college career. That 14th ranked D that he "lost" too. Can you tell me who that was again? I'm pretty sure he put up darn near 50 on them. Wait, can't go there, seeing as he "lost".

The TTU game was probably the worst game of the season for him and it's still far better than any QB's "worst game" would be for us. I don't even care if we draft Geno anymore, I just want a QB. What I do care about is how you constantly trash Geno just because he beat Texas. You constantly demean him while pimping game-managers like Aaron Murray.

Ryfo18
01-24-2013, 11:06 PM
What I do care about is how you constantly trash Geno just because he beat Texas.

Wow I just realized this connection...

texaschief
01-25-2013, 02:31 AM
I'm pretty sure Geno faced the same LSU D Wilson did in 2011, and put up the 2nd most points against that D all season...And threw for 430+ yards against them. But I could be mistaken.

Your words: NEVER!



Cherry-picked? You act like Geno has never accomplished a single thing in his college career. DING DING DING!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! That 14th ranked D that he "lost" too. Can you tell me who that was again? I'm pretty sure he put up darn near 50 on them. Wait, can't go there, seeing as he "lost".

No. I can't, actually. What are you talking about? I'm looking at all the "darn near 50" point losing efforts and I can't find a single 14th ranked defense. The OU game from '12? That can't be the game you're talking about because OU ranked 50th. It can't be UT who ranked 74th. Maybe 2011 UConn?

The TTU game was probably the worst game of the season for him and it's still far better than any QB's "worst game" would be for us. I don't even care if we draft Geno anymore, I just want a QB. What I do care about is how you constantly trash Geno just because he beat Texas. You constantly demean him while pimping game-managers like Aaron Murray.

I'd take Klein and Landry Jones before I took Geno Smith. Both performed MUCH better than Smith against Texas. In fact, I would've taken RGIII or Weeden in last year's draft as well. I don't give a s#!t about who beats UT. I'm not THAT big of a fan. Not ONCE have I mentioned his beating UT as reason for my disapproval of a Smith pick at #1. It bothers you that I can actually put a lucid anti-Smith argument together, and his beating UT is the best rebuttal you can come up with? Awesome.

Geno Smith is going to be a garbage QB at the next level. If you want Jason Campbell, why don't you just say so? He's going to be available as a free agent. We don't need to kill this team for the foreseeable future by wasting a pick on his clone when we could just throw away THIS season on a mediocre QB... and then move on.

But, at least Smith had the balls to show up to the senior bowl and compete against the other QBs in his class... oh, wait. Gotta love a QB prospect who's afraid to be compared to his piers and afraid of competition. IDK about y'all, but that just SCREAMS "winner" to me.

The fact that you guys are hanging your entire argument on trash stats in losing efforts is laughable. Of course he was going to have big numbers against LSU... when you're getting your *** stomped that bad, passing the ball is the only option. Geno Smith had a 58% completion rate and 2 picks in 2011 against LSU. 7 of WV's 8 first half drives ended in either a punt or a turnover. The majority of Smith's passing yards in that game came when the game was already out of hand. It didn't go any better for Wilson... well, other than a 63% completion rating and only 1 pick. The final score wasn't the same and Wilson didn't put up 2x as many yards... but the result was still the same. Nothing else matters.

Geno Smith beat 2 teams who have legitimate NFL talent his entire career. Last year's Clemson team (and destroyed that team) and this year's Texas team in the last minute. Two career defining WINNING performances.

The rest of his career wins came against:

2011
Marshall, Norfolk St, Maryland, Bowling Green, UConn, Rutgers, Cincinnati (#23), Pittsburgh, and South Florida

2012
Marshall, James Madison, Maryland, Baylor, Iowa St., and Kansas.

Every other time he was challenged against elite talent that he and his NFL caliber WRs couldn't run away from, he lost... and usually convincingly.

2011
#2 LSU 47-21, (NR) Syracuse 49-23, (NR) Louisville 38-35

2012
(NR) TxTech 49-14, #4 KSU 55-14, (NR) TCU 39-38, (NR) OSU 55-34, #12 OU 50-49, (NR) Syracuse 38-14

6 of those 9 losses were by at least 15pts. Y'all are so blinded by his average completion percentage which, is inflated by his performances against inferior talent, that y'all don't even check to see what he did against these teams he LOST against. He performed at a 55% completion rate during his losses. It wasn't like he tore things up and his team just let him down... in fact, it was probably closer to the opposite. I contend that it was BECAUSE of his poor completion percentage and poor performance against better talent that probably caused those losses.

Does it honestly NOT bother you that Smith only shows up against inferior talent? That argument alone was the sole reason why EVERYONE thought Poe was a reach last year. He had "all the tools" but didn't perform against top talent... ring a bell? Where was this "franchise QB" when his team was getting blown out by unranked teams like Syracuse, TxTech, and OSU? Wouldn't you think a "franchise QB" should have been worth at least 2 more points and "find a way" to beat OU and TCU?

Bottom line, Geno Smith has only beaten 4 teams who finished the season in the top 25 his whole career. Those teams were ranked 11th, 15th, 23rd, and 25th. Those were his accomplishments. THAT'S IT. Wilson beat 4 teams who finished in the top 25 in 2011 alone, ranked 8th, 9th, 14th, and 15th. Why are you putting so much stock in wins against the severely inferior teams listed above and desperate passing numbers in blowout games in Geno Smith's losses? Why are you dismissing the fact that he can't win against good teams? I'm not interested in a QB who puts up eye-popping numbers in blow-out losses... what's the point??



Just kidding... my opinion is based solely on the fact that he beat UT... because that's logical.

fairladyZ
01-25-2013, 03:01 AM
Isn't one of the huge knocks on cassel is that he can only beat on the weaker teams in the NFL but not against the tougher competition?

kinda sounds familiar doesn't it?

Ryfo18
01-25-2013, 09:55 AM
I'd take Klein and Landry Jones before I took Geno Smith.

This is all I need to see to know that it's pointless arguing with you.

We're never going to convince each other, so I'll discuss this with you in 2-3 years (when Geno is hopefully our QB).

texaschief
01-25-2013, 10:26 AM
Sounds good. I remember a similar conversation I had about Pioli when we were talking about hiring him. Turns out, the media darlings aren't always what they're hyped up too be. Pioli, Notre Dame, Obama... sometimes that "gold" is actually just pyrite.

Ryfo18
01-25-2013, 10:40 AM
Sounds good. I remember a similar conversation I had about Pioli when we were talking about hiring him. Turns out, the media darlings aren't always what they're hyped up too be. Pioli, Notre Dame, Obama... sometimes that "gold" is actually just pyrite.

I can 100% agree with this though :chiefs:

texaschief
01-25-2013, 07:42 PM
I can 100% agree with this though :chiefs:


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