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FranciscoD'anconia
01-16-2013, 03:38 PM
With Chip Kelly becoming the new head coach of the Eagles, that could mean the end of Nick Foles' career in Philadelphia. He absolutely does not fit the Chip Kelly offensive system. He does however fit the Andy Reid system and has the tools to become a potential franchise QB. Interesting trade possibility there. Also, Mel Kiper (for what it's worth - don't laugh) projects NO QBs going in the first round in his mock draft. Now that's a little ridiculous, but saying that none would have top 10 pick grades might be a bit more reasonable. I see a trade down or drafting a non QB with the top pick and then taking one in the 2nd round, or a trade up with the 2nd round pick for a QB. Foles or Kolb plus a rookie taken in the latter part of the first round or early 2nd round that Reid identifies as his guy, could be a good combination.

swochief
01-16-2013, 05:34 PM
With Chip Kelly becoming the new head coach of the Eagles, that could mean the end of Nick Foles' career in Philadelphia. He absolutely does not fit the Chip Kelly offensive system. He does however fit the Andy Reid system and has the tools to become a potential franchise QB. Interesting trade possibility there. Also, Mel Kiper (for what it's worth - don't laugh) projects NO QBs going in the first round in his mock draft. Now that's a little ridiculous, but saying that none would have top 10 pick grades might be a bit more reasonable. I see a trade down or drafting a non QB with the top pick and then taking one in the 2nd round, or a trade up with the 2nd round pick for a QB. Foles or Kolb plus a rookie taken in the latter part of the first round or early 2nd round that Reid identifies as his guy, could be a good combination.



Kiper really has no first round qb's in his 1st mock ? Your right that is a bit ridiculous. Still its his first one , it will change once or twice more before draft day.

I wouldn't mind getting Foles , he's another one i was hoping the Chiefs would get the last year or two.

They still need to pick one up early 2nd or move back into the later half of the first and get one.


:chiefs:

swochief
01-16-2013, 05:35 PM
Who did Kiper have KC takin w/ the first ?

FranciscoD'anconia
01-16-2013, 05:37 PM
I think Joekel, but he said "They should trade down".

swochief
01-16-2013, 05:48 PM
I'd be okay w/ Joekel or the trade.
If they take the tackle they would have some leverage for possible trades as they would have 3 left tackles.
I believe Stephenson will an above average one. He showed some flashes of it this year and i like his agressiveness there.
I'm an OU fan and i really didn't think he would make it from watching college ball but i do now.

brdempsey69
01-16-2013, 06:36 PM
I'd be okay w/ Joekel or the trade.
If they take the tackle they would have some leverage for possible trades as they would have 3 left tackles.
I believe Stephenson will an above average one. He showed some flashes of it this year and i like his agressiveness there.
I'm an OU fan and i really didn't think he would make it from watching college ball but i do now.

I did watch Stephenson drive Broncos LB Keith Brooking completely off the field on the Chiefs 2nd Offensive play from scrimmage in the game at KC, so it's like you said, he can be aggressive and nasty.

It's going to depend on what the new regime thinks of Stephenson, more so than Albert, as to what they do with that 1st overall pick.

jap1
01-16-2013, 06:55 PM
Supposedly Chip Kelly is able to adapt. But I see a scenario where he signs Vick as a bridge, drafts Geno and offers Foles for a trade.

So, how about this hypothetical scenario - we swap 1st rounders with Philly (4th pick) and get Foles, their 2nd round pick (and a couple late round picks).

Or, we swap 1sts for Asomugha (his contract may make him more difficult to bring on board) and Foles.

We then have the ability to truly take the BPA (whether Dorsey thinks that is a ILB, OLB, OL, DL, CB, etc), as we have filled the holes at QB and CB.

I don't know how likely these trades are from the Philly end, so feel free to provide constructive criticism.

And yes, I realize Asomugha was ranked very poorly last year, but he is best as a man to man CB and they had him playing zone a lot last year.

swochief
01-16-2013, 08:53 PM
Supposedly Chip Kelly is able to adapt. But I see a scenario where he signs Vick as a bridge, drafts Geno and offers Foles for a trade.

So, how about this hypothetical scenario - we swap 1st rounders with Philly (4th pick) and get Foles, their 2nd round pick (and a couple late round picks).

Or, we swap 1sts for Asomugha (his contract may make him more difficult to bring on board) and Foles.

We then have the ability to truly take the BPA (whether Dorsey thinks that is a ILB, OLB, OL, DL, CB, etc), as we have filled the holes at QB and CB.

I don't know how likely these trades are from the Philly end, so feel free to provide constructive criticism.

And yes, I realize Asomugha was ranked very poorly last year, but he is best as a man to man CB and they had him playing zone a lot last year.


As long as they still grab one of the top qb's( Wilson would be ideal) i'd be good w/ that.

I'd also like for them to grab a qb every year in the first 3 rounds for at least the next three years or till they it right.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-16-2013, 09:05 PM
NOOOOOOOO You do NOT want Nnamdi Asomougha! He is terrible. I watched every Eagles game AT LEAST twice last year. Nnamdi Asomougha is the worst DB I have EVER seen in my life. I'm not exaggerating. I don't mean "he's lost a step". I don't mean "Eh, he's not worth his contract." I don't mean, "He's not as good in zone as he is in man." I mean, he is the worst DB I have ever seen. He's slow. He doesn't try. He plays with no confidence. He takes bad angles, won't tackle, isn't physical, has horrible ball skills. Can't play zone. Can't play man. They weren't misusing him. He stinks! Profootballfocus ranked him as something like 193 out of 201 DBs in the NFL. That includes several dozen players who probably only played a few games and were cut, or only were added because of injury. I don't care how good he was 10 years ago, he is currently the worst DB in the NFL.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-16-2013, 09:08 PM
And as far as your hypothetical trade, Chiefs trade #1 overall for #4 overall, #36 overall, Nick Foles and other picks? I like the thinking, but Philly would never do that. That's WAY too much. Foles is really good. Maybe #1 overall and something else for Foles and #4 overall, but no way Philly gives up more than that.

jap1
01-16-2013, 09:13 PM
As long as they still grab one of the top qb's( Wilson would be ideal) i'd be good w/ that.

I'd also like for them to grab a qb every year in the first 3 rounds for at least the next three years or till they it right.

If they pulled that trade off, it would likely be because Reid was convinced that Foles would be a QBOTF in his offense and behind our OL (which is much better than Philly's). In that scenario, I would see them maybe picking up someone in the second, or third, to use as a backup.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-16-2013, 09:17 PM
Btw, the "much better than Philly's" offensive line thing, I assume you mean because of injury. Jason Peters was probably the best offensive lineman in all of football, and was out for the entire year with an achilles. Jason Kelce was being touted as a future probowl player and Todd Herrimans is a borderline probowl alternate type, all out for the year. That's the only reason their line was bad. With those three in, plus Evan Mathis who is good, it's actually a pretty good line. But yes, Foles could definitely be a franchise QB with the right coaching and the right players around him.

swochief
01-16-2013, 09:22 PM
If they pulled that trade off, it would likely be because Reid was convinced that Foles would be a QBOTF in his offense and behind our OL (which is much better than Philly's). In that scenario, I would see them maybe picking up someone in the second, or third, to use as a backup.


I'd be good w/ a later qb pick too , for me T Wilson is best option.

jap1
01-16-2013, 09:23 PM
And as far as your hypothetical trade, Chiefs trade #1 overall for #4 overall, #36 overall, Nick Foles and other picks? I like the thinking, but Philly would never do that. That's WAY too much. Foles is really good. Maybe #1 overall and something else for Foles and #4 overall, but no way Philly gives up more than that.

If you assume Foles is a 2nd round quality, and using the trade value chart (http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php), Philly is actually winning out.

The #1 is worth 3000, and the #4 is worth 1800, which means Philly has to give us 1200 points. The #36 is worth like 550 or so points.

So assuming Foles is worth less than the 26th pick (which if he were worth more in Philly's eyes, they would probably try to make him work) it would work out evenly or in Philly's favor. They may need to make some more swaps of late round picks, or put in a conditional clause for some picks next year.

Granted it is all hypothetical, and who knows if they still use the trade value chart anymore.

texaschief
01-16-2013, 09:26 PM
I'd KILL for Foles!!

Swap 1st round picks with Philly for Foles!! Done and Done!! They get Geno before Jax gets a chance. We get to trade down and take BPA and get our QB in one felled swoop.

#KCBestpossiblescenario

#HorribletradeforPhilly

jap1
01-16-2013, 09:33 PM
NOOOOOOOO You do NOT want Nnamdi Asomougha! He is terrible. I watched every Eagles game AT LEAST twice last year. Nnamdi Asomougha is the worst DB I have EVER seen in my life. I'm not exaggerating. I don't mean "he's lost a step". I don't mean "Eh, he's not worth his contract." I don't mean, "He's not as good in zone as he is in man." I mean, he is the worst DB I have ever seen. He's slow. He doesn't try. He plays with no confidence. He takes bad angles, won't tackle, isn't physical, has horrible ball skills. Can't play zone. Can't play man. They weren't misusing him. He stinks! Profootballfocus ranked him as something like 193 out of 201 DBs in the NFL. That includes several dozen players who probably only played a few games and were cut, or only were added because of injury. I don't care how good he was 10 years ago, he is currently the worst DB in the NFL.

I saw a lot of him when he was in Oak, he was dominant. I haven't seen him play much in Philly. It sounds like he has lost motivation and discipline, which sounds like coaching to me. All that says to me is that he can probably be had for a lot cheaper than what he is worth. Worst case scenario, we bring him in, restructure his contract, and he competes with Arenas or a rookie for the starting CB position. I also see him getting some motivation out of playing against the Raiders 2x a year.

That having been said, thanks for the evaluation from someone who has watched him recently.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-16-2013, 09:41 PM
As far as Asomougha, I don't think it's coaching. I'm watching him and he is just slow. He doesn't have the athleticism of a 25 year old. He's really just lost a step and is not the same guy.

As far as the trade value chart, yeah, you make a really good point about the enormous value of the #1 overall pick, but I think that that assumes that there is an Andrew Luck in the draft. With this particular draft, I don't think anyone really believes that there is a 1200 point difference between who goes 1st and who goes 4th. Although, you kind of need to see how it plays out after the combine and all that. Just based on my own humble opinion, I would trade #1 for #4 and Foles in a heartbeat and probably even throw something else in if I had to.

jap1
01-16-2013, 09:47 PM
As far as Asomougha, I don't think it's coaching. I'm watching him and he is just slow. He doesn't have the athleticism of a 25 year old. He's really just lost a step and is not the same guy.

As far as the trade value chart, yeah, you make a really good point about the enormous value of the #1 overall pick, but I think that that assumes that there is an Andrew Luck in the draft. With this particular draft, I don't think anyone really believes that there is a 1200 point difference between who goes 1st and who goes 4th. Although, you kind of need to see how it plays out after the combine and all that. Just based on my own humble opinion, I would trade #1 for #4 and Foles in a heartbeat and probably even throw something else in if I had to.

True about the trade value chart, except last years draft actually shifted the number one and two pick to a much higher value. Unless you think Washington way overpaid for RG3. This chart was created in the 90s, who knows if it is still used or how much it has changed.

But regarding the Foles trade, I would be ok with Foles plus maybe a mid round pick. I wouldn't hate the idea of straight up Swapping picks for Foles, but I think Philly would be getting the best value out of the deal, even though we would be getting a QBOTF, which I am assuming, once again, that if Reid wanted him enough to trade for him, he would be probably be worth it in the end.

texaschief
01-16-2013, 09:47 PM
As far as Asomougha, I don't think it's coaching. I'm watching him and he is just slow. He doesn't have the athleticism of a 25 year old. He's really just lost a step and is not the same guy.

As far as the trade value chart, yeah, you make a really good point about the enormous value of the #1 overall pick, but I think that that assumes that there is an Andrew Luck in the draft. With this particular draft, I don't think anyone really believes that there is a 1200 point difference between who goes 1st and who goes 4th. Although, you kind of need to see how it plays out after the combine and all that. Just based on my own humble opinion, I would trade #1 for #4 and Foles in a heartbeat and probably even throw something else in if I had to.

There doesn't need to be an Andrew Luck in the draft. It just takes one team to fall in love with a guy and decide he's the QB for them... Just one. When it comes to QBs, the only advantage the Chiefs have if they want to trade the pick is the fact that Jax is right behind them. If someone really likes a QB, they're not going to want to allow Jax to have a shot at stealing "their guy."

jap1
01-16-2013, 09:54 PM
The more I think about it, the more I hope that Geno blows everyone away at the combine, and all the other QBs suck. If there is only one QB that stands out this year,it makes the #1 pick that much more valuable, for trade down, or make it worth it for us to take Geno.

swochief
01-16-2013, 11:07 PM
The more I think about it, the more I hope that Geno blows everyone away at the combine, and all the other QBs suck. If there is only one QB that stands out this year,it makes the #1 pick that much more valuable, for trade down, or make it worth it for us to take Geno.


Why does it have to be Geno ?
If just one stands out and the rest don't doesn't matter who it is.

OTR Chiefs fan
01-17-2013, 12:16 AM
With Chip Kelly becoming the new head coach of the Eagles, that could mean the end of Nick Foles' career in Philadelphia. He absolutely does not fit the Chip Kelly offensive system. He does however fit the Andy Reid system and has the tools to become a potential franchise QB. Interesting trade possibility there. Also, Mel Kiper (for what it's worth - don't laugh) projects NO QBs going in the first round in his mock draft. Now that's a little ridiculous, but saying that none would have top 10 pick grades might be a bit more reasonable. I see a trade down or drafting a non QB with the top pick and then taking one in the 2nd round, or a trade up with the 2nd round pick for a QB. Foles or Kolb plus a rookie taken in the latter part of the first round or early 2nd round that Reid identifies as his guy, could be a good combination.

I certainly hope the Chiefs trade down and not reach with the #1 pick. Foles might be alright for a stop gap, but not Kolb. He has shown nothing.

jap1
01-18-2013, 11:39 PM
Nick Foles availability will probably be decided in the next week or two. Mike Vick is guaranteed 3 mil for next year if he is on the Eagles roster still on Feb 6th. So if he doesnt get cut, traded or restructure by then, the Eagles are taking a big hit financially.

Source: Chip Kelly, Mike Vick meet, no resolution imminent | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/18/chip-kelly-mike-vick-meet-no-resolution-imminent/)

FranciscoD'anconia
01-19-2013, 02:18 AM
To be honest, I think Foles is more than a stop gap. Don't be fooled by the 3rd round pick thing. A) it was one of the strongest QB drafts ever and B) he only slipped because he doesn't run well and that's the trend now. In an Andy Reid offense, you don't have to run well and he has everything else - accuracy, size, arm strength, leadership, goes through his progressions and makes the right reads, etc...

Eydugstr
01-19-2013, 10:14 AM
To be honest, I think Foles is more than a stop gap. Don't be fooled by the 3rd round pick thing. A) it was one of the strongest QB drafts ever and B) he only slipped because he doesn't run well and that's the trend now. In an Andy Reid offense, you don't have to run well and he has everything else - accuracy, size, arm strength, leadership, goes through his progressions and makes the right reads, etc...

Would Philly part with him? Understand where you're coming from when you say that he's not a "Chip Kelly" type of guy, but I would still think that Vick would be the more expendable of the two. If Reid set his gunsights on Foles, would think that Philly's front office would see that coming from a mile away and want us to pay a dear price for him.

There's a clip of him playing the Patriots on youtube (unfortunately NSFW because of the eminem song, or I would've posted a link) and he looks great.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-19-2013, 11:21 AM
It's possible that Philly parts with all of their QBs, just like KC will probably part with all of their QBs. Vick is too old to run the Chip Kelly offense and neither Foles nor Edwards have the speed to run it. Now, that having been said, they're not going to give Foles away for nothing. He probably has late first round value, so you'd have to give something up.

Also, the article, while is was very good, almost under sold him a few times. For example the "bad offensive line" was mentioned along with the injuries to Jackson, McCoy and Avant. He didn't mention that the offensive line had 4 out of 5 starters out for the year with injuries. Also didn't mention that the reliable (almost pro bowl level) TE Brent Celek was out too. Also, I think he mentioned the "7 games Foles played in" and "McCoy was out for 4 games and Jackson out for 3". If you include the games they were injured, it was actually not 3 and 4 out of 7, it was more like 3.5 and 4.5 out of 6.5. I mean, Foles really had NOTHING to work with. The reason he had to throw so much was because they were down all the time, which means the other team knew they were throwing. He really did play quite well.

brdempsey69
01-19-2013, 02:48 PM
It's possible that Philly parts with all of their QBs, just like KC will probably part with all of their QBs. Vick is too old to run the Chip Kelly offense and neither Foles nor Edwards have the speed to run it. Now, that having been said, they're not going to give Foles away for nothing. He probably has late first round value, so you'd have to give something up.

Also, the article, while is was very good, almost under sold him a few times. For example the "bad offensive line" was mentioned along with the injuries to Jackson, McCoy and Avant. He didn't mention that the offensive line had 4 out of 5 starters out for the year with injuries. Also didn't mention that the reliable (almost pro bowl level) TE Brent Celek was out too. Also, I think he mentioned the "7 games Foles played in" and "McCoy was out for 4 games and Jackson out for 3". If you include the games they were injured, it was actually not 3 and 4 out of 7, it was more like 3.5 and 4.5 out of 6.5. I mean, Foles really had NOTHING to work with. The reason he had to throw so much was because they were down all the time, which means the other team knew they were throwing. He really did play quite well.


This is a stretch and highly unlikely, but what IF the Eagles offered Foles for a swap of the #1 and #4 overall positions? Thoughts? Good idea or do you think it sucks?

N TX Dave
01-19-2013, 02:55 PM
This is a stretch and highly unlikely, but what IF the Eagles offered Foles for a swap of the #1 and #4 overall positions? Thoughts? Good idea or do you think it sucks?

I would be for it knowing that they would take Geno and stop the Raiders from getting him.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-19-2013, 03:16 PM
I would do it in a heartbeat. I would probably take a QB with the 2nd round pick for depth. I wouldn't take Geno, or any QB at 4. IMO, Foles is better than any QB in this draft. I know it sounds ridiculous because he was a 3rd round pick, but A) it was a much better draft and a much better QB draft and B) he slipped and should never have gotten drafted that low.

texaschief
01-19-2013, 03:33 PM
This is a stretch and highly unlikely, but what IF the Eagles offered Foles for a swap of the #1 and #4 overall positions? Thoughts? Good idea or do you think it sucks?

I'd do that trade in a heart beat. I was thinking the exact same thing earlier today.


I would do it in a heartbeat. I would probably take a QB with the 2nd round pick for depth. I wouldn't take Geno, or any QB at 4. IMO, Foles is better than any QB in this draft. I know it sounds ridiculous because he was a 3rd round pick, but A) it was a much better draft and a much better QB draft and B) he slipped and should never have gotten drafted that low.

Foles would be the first QB off the board if he came out this year instead of last year. I don't know if he'd be worth the #1 pick, but DEFINITELY worth a 2nd round pick (which is what the Chiefs would essentially be losing in draft value from #1 to #4).

brdempsey69
01-19-2013, 03:34 PM
I would be for it knowing that they would take Geno and stop the Raiders from getting him.

Agreed. And Foles is further ahead of the learning curve with Andy Reid than any QB they could draft.


I would do it in a heartbeat. I would probably take a QB with the 2nd round pick for depth. I wouldn't take Geno, or any QB at 4. IMO, Foles is better than any QB in this draft. I know it sounds ridiculous because he was a 3rd round pick, but A) it was a much better draft and a much better QB draft and B) he slipped and should never have gotten drafted that low.

I'm not sure I'd go QB with the 2nd rounder IF this scenario played out because there are going to be a group of talented WR's probably available at #34 & the Chiefs really need a playmaker there. I'd be more inclined to wait till Round 3.


I'd do that trade in a heart beat. I was thinking the exact same thing earlier today.



Foles would be the first QB off the board if he came out this year instead of last year. I don't know if he'd be worth the #1 pick, but DEFINITELY worth a 2nd round pick (which is what the Chiefs would essentially be losing in draft value from #1 to #4).

A quality QB is worth a 2nd round pick or trading down 3 slots ALWAYS.

Since we are thinking this thought, maybe the Chiefs brass is thinking it also.

Eydugstr
01-19-2013, 05:43 PM
As long as KC drafts another qb to add some depth, I'd go for that. But the big question is this...Would the Eagles? Is there anyone in this draft that are a MUST have for the Eagles? If it's not a must have for them, it puts them in a good position to jack up the price.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-19-2013, 06:30 PM
I can see the Eagles trading him for his market value, whatever that is. Would that be swapping #1 for #4 and Foles? Would it be the Chief's 2nd round pick for Foles? A player for a player? But I could see them making a deal. He doesn't fit what Kelly does.

jap1
01-19-2013, 06:51 PM
I emailed a sports writer (from the Philly area) about the idea of trading for Foles, specifically trading firsts. He said that he can see it happening, but we would probably only need to give up our 3rd to get him.

Also, FYI, if you put any stock into the draft value chart, then moving back 3 spots is worth something close to a mid first round pick.

FranciscoD'anconia
01-19-2013, 07:33 PM
A third only? WOW, that would be a steal. As an Eagles fan, I would not want that. As a new Chiefs fan I would. Do you remember who the reporter was? I probably have corresponded with him myself.

Lord-Chiefy
01-19-2013, 08:28 PM
Great they get hungry HC.. we get f'd in head HC.

Eydugstr
01-20-2013, 01:29 PM
I can see the Eagles trading him for his market value, whatever that is. Would that be swapping #1 for #4 and Foles? Would it be the Chief's 2nd round pick for Foles? A player for a player? But I could see them making a deal. He doesn't fit what Kelly does.

As far as player for player, what would KC have that Philly would want? The main things I see would be JC and our linebacker corps...And if we lost either one, it'd be a long season.

MissingTBone
01-20-2013, 03:41 PM
Well trade em Cassel and Quinn for Foles!

N TX Dave
01-20-2013, 09:07 PM
Well trade em Cassel and Quinn for Foles!

We swap our firsts, seconds and thirds for Foles and they take Cassel and Stanzi, Quinn is a UFA.

GarH
01-21-2013, 01:43 AM
Living in Tucson and being an Arizona Wildcat football season ticket holder, I watched every game Foles played. I was really hoping the Chiefs would draft him. I also really wanted the Chiefs to draft Gronkowski.

rbedgood
01-23-2013, 12:11 AM
Just a quick thought on Asomougha...some think it is that he has lost his skill / ability and some that it is a 'coaching' issue. Well in your guys' case it doesn't matter.

If it is skill / ability you don't want him.

If it was coaching, you have the coach he wouldn't play for as your head coach now...therefore you don't want him.

I personally think he still has the talent to be a top level CB, but showed that he is not a leader, but rather a follower and he collapsed along with the team. Not a guy who deserves his oversized contract either way.