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slc chief
01-27-2013, 12:40 PM
Ultimate EJ Manuel Highlights | HD - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYRCkpnnlIs)



this kids draft status is going to rise after the senior bowl. obviously i dont think he is going in round one. but he definantly has talent to become a good qb in the nfl. he stands tall in the pocket, can scramble and has plenty of arm strength. he makes the deep throws as well as the short ones. so does anyone know why he isn't projected earlier

N TX Dave
01-27-2013, 01:59 PM
Manuel made poor decisions throwing into coverage and failed to see the entire field on several downfield passes if FSU's Nov. 24 loss to Florida, something that has plagued him throughout his career. He routinely held the ball too long in the pocket and seemed rattled by pressure, creating much concern among NFL teams about his ability to quickly read the defense, process and anticipate open windows.

N TX Dave
01-27-2013, 02:02 PM
Another one.

Weaknesses: Manuel will force throws into tight coverage sometimes relying on his strong arm too often. Manuel has a funky release at times that causes some of his medium to deep passes to flutter on him. Though he has the physical tools, he does not carry his team on his shoulders often enough when the need arises and needs more of a take charge attitude. He can be a little high on his dump off passes if he does not get his feet under him. He sometimes reacts late to defensive adjustments that cause incomplete passes, turnovers, or sacks. He needs to get better at looking off defenders and moving them with his eyes.

Final Thoughts: Manuel has all of the physical tools you look for in a first round NFL Draft prospect. He is being developed by one of the best quarterback coaches and offensive minds in college football in Florida State head coach Jimbo Fisher. Who helped turn former Seminole quarterback Christian Ponder into a NFL first round pick. Manuel needs to improve at taking command of his team when they need plays to be made. Too often they have lost games they should have won by being too conservative and those are the moments he should have the ball put in his hands and make his presence known. Manuel needs work on some passing mechanics and footwork. He reminds me of Vince Young with better pocket awareness and pass accuracy. He can really improve his draft stock with strong showings in some big games late on his 2012 schedule.

N TX Dave
01-27-2013, 02:05 PM
Still another one - this one from his school

Weaknesses: It might seem strange consider he completed 68 percent of his passes this season, but accuracy is likely what NFL scouts won't like about his game. Manuel was never erratic with his throws, but he did have a tendency to overthrow receivers more than a few times per game. It also wasn't uncommon for receivers to have to slow up to adjust to his throws.


Where does he fit in the NFL?


Manuel certainly has the physical tools to play quarterback at the next level. If he gets drafted by a team that tailors its system around his physical tools, we wouldn't be all that surprised if he had great success at the pro level. Manuel may not be ready to be a starter right away and would certainly benefit by being selected by a team that is willing to allow him to take the time to adjust to life in the NFL as the No. 2 signal caller.

slc chief
01-27-2013, 03:33 PM
nice thanks for all the infotx dave. it seams to me he could make it in the nfl . i try not to get to cuaght up in all the draft experts. after all look at russell wilson andy dalton,tom brady,kaepernick,romo and even tannenhill. i guess you never know. yesterday at the senior bowl this qb was about the only one who seamed able to adapt to a new playbook. and get his team marching down the field on a consistent basis.

texaschief
01-27-2013, 03:37 PM
I could see Manuel as a 4th round pick... but I could also see him as a 7th round pick.

slc chief
01-27-2013, 03:38 PM
i wouldnt mind if the chiefs took him in the second round. used the number 1 pick to trade for revis or take the lt #1 overall. then draft this kid and have him compete against alex smith,nick foles or matt flynn for the starting job. i think andy reid could work his magic with him. as long as we get a solid prospect at qb and cassell and quin are gone

texaschief
01-27-2013, 03:48 PM
i wouldnt mind if the chiefs took him in the second round. used the number 1 pick to trade for revis or take the lt #1 overall. then draft this kid and have him compete against alex smith,nick foles or matt flynn for the starting job. i think andy reid could work his magic with him. as long as we get a solid prospect at qb and cassell and quin are gone

I don't understand why Chiefs fans could even think about entertaining this idea. Revis is on the last year of his contract. He's on record to be asking for the largest contract EVER given to a defensive player. So, when Chiefs fans say that we should give our 1st round pick to NYJ for a 1 year player or a player that will require the 1st pick AND the largest defensive contract ever, all I can think is :mel4:

70 chiefsfan70
01-27-2013, 03:56 PM
i wouldnt mind if the chiefs took him in the second round. used the number 1 pick to trade for revis or take the lt #1 overall. then draft this kid and have him compete against alex smith,nick foles or matt flynn for the starting job. i think andy reid could work his magic with him. as long as we get a solid prospect at qb and cassell and quin are gone



Maybe I'm missing something here, but would it not make more sense to resign or franchise Albert, save our first pick, or trade it for more, and actually draft needs?

Its highly unlikely that Joeckel would improve this team next year, maybe in 2 or 3 years, as Albert will be aging and Joeckel would be getting into his prime. It also would not make sense finanially. As I understand Albert and Joeckel would require similar money. Albert has been in my opinion, a top 10 LT for several years and has not been getting paid like that. Possible a front loaded contract.


But like I said, maybe I'm missing something here. I would love to here of a reason why we should draft a lt.
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm truely wanting to know what I'm missing.

texaschief
01-27-2013, 04:02 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but would it not make more sense to resign or franchise Albert, save our first pick, or trade it for more, and actually draft needs?

Its highly unlikely that Joeckel would improve this team next year, maybe in 2 or 3 years, as Albert will be aging and Joeckel would be getting into his prime. It also would not make sense finanially. As I understand Albert and Joeckel would require similar money. Albert has been in my opinion, a top 10 LT for several years and has not been getting paid like that. Possible a front loaded contract.


But like I said, maybe I'm missing something here. I would love to here of a reason why we should draft a lt.
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm truely wanting to know what I'm missing.

This is wrong. Joekel would get a $4m/yr contract for his rookie contract. If Albert would sign for that, I'd be all for it. That won't happen. Albert will be looking for almost twice that.

70 chiefsfan70
01-27-2013, 04:42 PM
This is wrong. Joekel would get a $4m/yr contract for his rookie contract. If Albert would sign for that, I'd be all for it. That won't happen. Albert will be looking for almost twice that.


4 million per year???? That sounds kinda low, not saying you are wrong.




I know a lot has changed in the rookie pay, but a couple of years ago, I remember the Rams pick Sam Bradford and seems like they gave him a 6 year 78 million dollar contract 50 mil guarenteed. Plus with in centives.

Like I said things did and should have changed. Guess I need not be too lazy to search for myself.

Albert will want more then 4 mil per year, this is certain.

texaschief
01-27-2013, 04:54 PM
The new CBA has destroyed the rookie pay scale. There was a huge difference between what Bradford signed and what Luck signed. Here's a link that might help you understand what has changed between Bradford and Luck: http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2012/0426/NFL-draft-Why-Andrew-Luck-s-rookie-salary-has-shrunk-video

70 chiefsfan70
01-27-2013, 05:25 PM
The new CBA has destroyed the rookie pay scale. There was a huge difference between what Bradford signed and what Luck signed. Here's a link that might help you understand what has changed between Bradford and Luck: NFL draft: Why Andrew Luck's rookie salary has shrunk (+video) - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2012/0426/NFL-draft-Why-Andrew-Luck-s-rookie-salary-has-shrunk-video)



Thanks, It does say they can only sign 4 year deals, which would pay about 6 million per year and then teams have the option for a fith year and pay the average of the top 10 paid in that position.

But you are right, Joeckel would cost us less then Albert. I still dont like the idea of not getting a position of need with the first pick.

But on the cost of these two, I stand corrected, thanks.

texaschief
01-27-2013, 06:03 PM
Joekel would be a position of need if Albert isn't re-signed. Stephenson is a good backup OT. That's where he SHOULD be. He's not a franchise cornerstone player. If we HAVE to take a player at #1 overall, my picks would either be Joekel or Jarvis Jones. Put Hali or Houston at DE and let Jackson and Dorsey walk. We've also got Bailey and Pitoitua at the other DE spot as well. Jones draws Von Miller comparisons. Line him up opposite of Houston and you've got a ridiculous pass rushing combo for a long time.

Anyone wanna guess what Tamba Hali would fetch on the trade market? Would you do a trade to Philly for their first round pick AND Nick Foles? I think I'd pull the trigger on that one if we were to take Jarvis Jones with our first pick.

What if we traded Hali for the above mentioned package and also traded our #1 pick to Oakland for a swap of 1sts, their 1st in 2014, and a 2nd round pick? Oakland takes Geno Smith, Jax doesn't run a 3-4, so Jones won't go there and then the Chiefs get Jones at #3?

So, the Chiefs would turn Tamba Hali and their #1 pick into Nick Foles, #3, #4, a 2014 1st rd, and the 3rd pick in the 2nd round... would you do it?

Assuming Jacksonville didn't take Joekel at #2, the Chiefs could get Javis Jones at #3, and Luke Joekel at #4 with Nick Foles under center and still have the rest of their draft intact including 2 picks in the top 3 of the 2nd round. Think anyone would be interested in those 2 picks if the Chiefs decided they wanted to trade back into the 1st round?

By dropping or trading the salaries of Albert, Dorsey, Jackson, and Hali, and filling those holes with younger, cheaper, comparable talent, the Chiefs can concentrate those dollars elsewhere in free agency to help upgrade the team at key positions... like WR, CB, and safety. Letting Albert walk and filling the hole with Joekel is a net gain in dollars and probably talent. Trading Hali for the opportunity to draft Jones is a net gain in dollars and probably talent as well... not to mention perceived longevity in both scenarios.

Money saved could go get us Jairus Byrd, Gregg Jennings, or any other top free agent available who could fill holes on this team better than reaching in the draft at poor value.

N TX Dave
01-27-2013, 06:36 PM
I would be for it IF it would happen like that.

texaschief
01-27-2013, 06:42 PM
I would be for it IF it would happen like that.

lol it's a VERY big "IF." They're just some of the ideas or options that could very well be on the table and just stating that it's "QB or bust" at #1 overall could be doing this franchise a very serious disservice, thus damaging the long-term outlook for the team as a whole... not just at one or two positions.

N TX Dave
01-27-2013, 06:59 PM
lol it's a VERY big "IF." They're just some of the ideas or options that could very well be on the table and just stating that it's "QB or bust" at #1 overall could be doing this franchise a very serious disservice, thus damaging the long-term outlook for the team as a whole... not just at one or two positions.

Oh I agree with you 100% to say draft a QB with the first pick no matter what is just wrong. WE DO NOT need to reach with the first pick again like most of the last 6 years. Maybe if we can stop reaching we can get this franchise turned around.

Glenn Dorsey 5 Reach
Branden Albert 15 Reach because he was a G no LT
Tyson Jackson 3 Reach
Eric Berry 5 Good
Jonathan Baldwin 26 Don't remember
Dontari Poe 11 Reach

texaschief
01-27-2013, 07:10 PM
Oh I agree with you 100% to say draft a QB with the first pick no matter what is just wrong. WE DO NOT need to reach with the first pick again like most of the last 6 years. Maybe if we can stop reaching we can get this franchise turned around.

Glenn Dorsey 5 Reach
Branden Albert 15 Reach because he was a G no LT
Tyson Jackson 3 Reach
Eric Berry 5 Good
Jonathan Baldwin 26 Don't remember
Dontari Poe 11 Reach

I disagree on Dorsey. He was drafted to be a 4-3 DT, not a 3-4 DE. He was the consensus #1 player on the board and it was considered a steal that the Chiefs got him at #5. For what the Chiefs have gotten in terms of value for Albert, I think he was a good value pick at 15. But the results of all of those picks outside of Albert and Berry have seriously hurt this franchise. Bringing Pioli in as the new GM is what set this franchise back at least an additional 5 years AFTER the rebuild Edwards and Peterson had already been working on. Pioli because of his 3-4 mentality was the worst possible hire for this franchise.

slc chief
01-27-2013, 09:34 PM
I don't understand why Chiefs fans could even think about entertaining this idea. Revis is on the last year of his contract. He's on record to be asking for the largest contract EVER given to a defensive player. So, when Chiefs fans say that we should give our 1st round pick to NYJ for a 1 year player or a player that will require the 1st pick AND the largest defensive contract ever, all I can think is :mel4:

they have already stated that a long term deal would have to be agreed upon with revis if any trade were to happen. come on you really think anybody would give up any draft picks for a player that would be eligable to walk the very next season . nobody in there right mind would pull that trigger. as far as the biggest defensive contract ever. correct me if i am wrong isn't he consider one of. if not the best defensive players in the league. the dude takes half of the field away. not saying they should do the trade but they should entertain the possabilty of getting a true shut down cornerback(team need buy the way).if you only have to give up 1 pick. but i doubt clark opens his check book for that one

slc chief
01-27-2013, 09:40 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but would it not make more sense to resign or franchise Albert, save our first pick, or trade it for more, and actually draft needs?

Its highly unlikely that Joeckel would improve this team next year, maybe in 2 or 3 years, as Albert will be aging and Joeckel would be getting into his prime. It also would not make sense finanially. As I understand Albert and Joeckel would require similar money. Albert has been in my opinion, a top 10 LT for several years and has not been getting paid like that. Possible a front loaded contract.


But like I said, maybe I'm missing something here. I would love to here of a reason why we should draft a lt.
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm truely wanting to know what I'm missing.


albert is descent but buy any means is not great. you dont give average players pro bowl/all pro salaries if albert does not want to budge on his salarie. unfortuantly he will be shown the door. plain and simple comes down to money .and the fact albert has some weaknesses.if he leaves via free agency i guarantee he gets put back to guard