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MyManHali
08-26-2013, 02:31 AM
I would like to say a few things to everybody on the board:

I didn't know I rubbed that many people the wrong way on this site, that was never my intention. I will admit that I have been too negative with this regime, even though I originally supported the hiring of Reid and Dorsey. In almost every post I talk about Alex Smith and I realize I have been quite critical of the qb, this has also upset some. I just want this team to do well, I really do. It upsets me that I see a talented team held back with what I believe to be a game manager. However, I do understand Smith is our quarterback atleast for the time being and in the future if I continue to post I promise to be more objective and far less critical.



-MMO

Justin5772002
08-26-2013, 02:35 AM
Welcome to the winning team friend

mcclusterfan1982
08-26-2013, 02:45 AM
If you change the way you criticize A. Smith and put him under a microscope, then all is good!!

tornadospotter
08-26-2013, 03:19 AM
Time will tell! I for one am done with you. You will be banned if I am asked again for my opinion to do so. You have a lot of negative in you about our team. I despise that.

jap1
08-26-2013, 04:46 AM
I respect your passion and your willingness to apologize. I am sure there are many that agree with you that Smith is not the QB to take us to the SB, but a lot of us just want a chance to see for ourselves this season.

I for one never had a problem with the fact that you have disliked Smith. I even welcomed the counterpoint because sometimes it is helpful to have someone look at things from a different perspective to get an accurate picture of where we stand and where we need to move. But I was one person who cut back on checking this site because EVERY thread got hijacked and turned into:
MMH - "Smith sucks and we will too because of it"
Everyone Else - "No he doesnt and no we wont."
MMH - "Yes he does"
Everyone Else - "No he doesnt"
...

I look forward to talking about and analyzing everything throughout the season along with you as we see this team develop and grow.

:bananen_smilies046:

Bike
08-26-2013, 06:50 AM
Time will tell! I for one am done with you. You will be banned if I am asked again for my opinion to do so. You have a lot of negative in you about our team. I despise that.So you will BAN a person for negative opinions? Seriously? A lot of stuff (not all) that MMH writes is actually true, and I agree with some of his points. A little diversity is good. If everybody had the same opinions, this site would be a pretty boring place to be. If you decide to ban MMH - then ban me too.

Seek
08-26-2013, 08:41 AM
So you will BAN a person for negative opinions? Seriously? A lot of stuff (not all) that MMH writes is actually true, and I agree with some of his points. A little diversity is good. If everybody had the same opinions, this site would be a pretty boring place to be. If you decide to ban MMH - then ban me too.

He should be banned. Not because he provides diversity, but because he is a cancer to the forum. No one can start any type of thread with an actual factual good discussion without him completely derailing it and killing the discussion with his biased hatred towards everything on this team, making this site nothing but doom and gloom. The constant biased unfactual hate in all of his multiple post is a deterrant on this site. People come here to get information about the Chiefs instead they get how much the team sucks, so they either feed the troll or they go else where. At no point should Geno Smith have been a discussion in the last Pre-season Thread but just like all post his hate for Alex Smith showed its ugly head.

He should be Banned so that Coach is not the only one posting WEB news and people can actually use the site to have discussions about the team they LOVE NOT HATE.

Bike
08-26-2013, 09:16 AM
He should be banned. Not because he provides diversity, but because he is a cancer to the forum. No one can start any type of thread with an actual factual good discussion without him completely derailing it and killing the discussion with his biased hatred towards everything on this team, making this site nothing but doom and gloom. The constant biased unfactual hate in all of his multiple post is a deterrant on this site. People come here to get information about the Chiefs instead they get how much the team sucks, so they either feed the troll or they go else where. At no point should Geno Smith have been a discussion in the last Pre-season Thread but just like all post his hate for Alex Smith showed its ugly head.

He should be Banned so that Coach is not the only one posting WEB news and people can actually use the site to have discussions about the team they LOVE NOT HATE.I strongly disagree. But maybe I shouldn't speak my mind and agree instead to avoid any negative feedback or getting banned.

Bike
08-26-2013, 09:32 AM
He should be banned. Not because he provides diversity, but because he is a cancer to the forum. No one can start any type of thread with an actual factual good discussion without him completely derailing it and killing the discussion with his biased hatred towards everything on this team, making this site nothing but doom and gloom. The constant biased unfactual hate in all of his multiple post is a deterrant on this site. People come here to get information about the Chiefs instead they get how much the team sucks, so they either feed the troll or they go else where. At no point should Geno Smith have been a discussion in the last Pre-season Thread but just like all post his hate for Alex Smith showed its ugly head.

He should be Banned so that Coach is not the only one posting WEB news and people can actually use the site to have discussions about the team they LOVE NOT HATE.BTW, can you wrap yourself around the fact that it might be YOUR interpretation of MMH posts that makes this site doom and gloom? Unfactual hate? C'mon dude. Many of MMH posts are based on stats, not hate. I just don't see it.

mcclusterfan1982
08-26-2013, 10:00 AM
you can disagree all you want, but you can also find just you and hali talking tho yourselves every day because the rest of us moved on. the dude is easy way way over the top with critisizm

Bike
08-26-2013, 10:23 AM
Don't quite have all your groceries bagged - doya? I am not necessarily defending MMH, I'm defending his right to post his thoughts on a public forum without fear of being banned. Unless he is calling somebody names, using foul language, violating chiefscrowd code of ethics, etc, he should not be threatened by a mod, especially on a public thread that anybody can read. Privately, well, ok. I also understand this is a privately-owned site, and the owner and his chosen mgmt. may ban whoever they want, for any reason they want. I may very well be banned after this post. That is all. I've been gone for awhile and ready to talk football. Cheers.

Sick Dog
08-26-2013, 10:25 AM
It is just the constant negativity that everyone is talking about...I think at some point everyone can be negative say after a bad game but the negativity is before even giving the team a chance...IMO this is the time to be positive until reg. season and things blow up then everyone should be on the team and management like last year that was justified! The Chiefs have done so much in the off season to get better so that is saying something and there should at this point be more positive than negative. All of the negative actually IMO make people not even want to come on the boards reading all of the same old crap...Hey if the Chiefs come out and get hammered by the Jags bring on the *****ing at least until the next game...unless of course it happens again.

Seek
08-26-2013, 11:35 AM
BTW, can you wrap yourself around the fact that it might be YOUR interpretation of MMH posts that makes this site doom and gloom? Unfactual hate? C'mon dude. Many of MMH posts are based on stats, not hate. I just don't see it.

Wow you are blind. Look at all the love MMH is getting. So MMH posting about Geno Smith in the middle of the Chiefs and Steelers thread supporting his love of Geno over Alex was necessary, for the purpose of having a in game discussion over the Chiefs and Steelers???

Again, he has a right to voice his opinion, and most are not factual but his opinion that have yet to be played out or will never have a chance. His opinion may be right it may be wrong but beating it like a dead horse in early every single thread that has any traction and discussion kills those threads. Nearly every thread that is shut down is tied to MMH. It is to the point that, people just move on. Even when he is on ignore like he is on my list, his post still kill threads like a cancer.

I love this site and was very active meeting and tailgating with member, but I am so distant from this place now as many of those people are as well, and a good part of it because the content of the dicussions are about how much a team we love sucks, and how wrong we are for even caring.

If you really don't see the problem, maybe youar part of it.

matthewschiefs
08-26-2013, 11:54 AM
This post is going to be to a few different people

to My man: I have said this before I'll say it again. It's not so much your message that people have the problem with it's how you have gone about delivering it that's been the problem. I have been critical of this team on this board before. Last year I talked about how poor the coaching on this team was. But I didn't focus on that and make that the point of every post. You have made that the point of 99% of your post. You can say I don't love the pick for Smith and I don't think he'll take the Chiefs far. OK no problem The Fact is over the past few years and the past few QBS you have a reason to want to see something before you buy in. But to just assume that it'll fail before 1 snap is 100% unfair. Just learn to give a move you don't like a chance if it doesn't work out feel free to say you feel it's not working. Chances are you won't be the only one doing so. But as a fan I think you owe it to the team to at least give the move a chance to work before jumping all over them for doing so. Who knows you might be wrong you might be right. But Until a guy fails don't act like he already has.

To BIKE: I 100% agree that banning someone for a opinion that's not popular. That's what a forum is all about giving opinions and having discussion. I think some of the response My man has gotten has been unfair. But there are times where he goes overboard. He has earned some of the heat he has gotten on here. I have never gotten heated with my man in fact I have enjoyed most of our back and forths. But I can see why some have not. Sometimes enough is enough and you don't need to harp on an issue like he has.

To Seek: I must take a lot of the Blame for the Geno talk in the Steelers game. I was the one that brought him up. I was trying to show My man how silly I though his judgements of Fisher were since he's a rookie. So I must take the Blame for this one.

chiefnut
08-26-2013, 12:27 PM
I have left other forums when open discussion/debate constantly turned to personal attacks, name calling etc.... if heated debates over the CHIEFS remains friendly and fun it can carry on forever, but when it turns nasty it has to stop. and it does take more than one person to form an argument. I suggest in the future when an opposing view posting starts to descend below the level of a friendly debate then the answer is to stop debating and move on to another topic/post and resist the urge to restart the same argument in the next post.....just sayin

SloJimFizz
08-26-2013, 01:05 PM
*

To Seek: I must take a lot of the Blame for the Geno talk in the Steelers game. I was the one that brought him up. I was trying to show My man how silly I though his judgements of Fisher were since he's a rookie. So I must take the Blame for this one.
Wrong, he brought up geno and how great he looked before the kickoff in that thread saying how great he looked.
Obviously before the 3int's and the self safety.

brdempsey69
08-26-2013, 01:06 PM
It is just the constant negativity that everyone is talking about...I think at some point everyone can be negative say after a bad game but the negativity is before even giving the team a chance...IMO this is the time to be positive until reg. season and things blow up then everyone should be on the team and management like last year that was justified! The Chiefs have done so much in the off season to get better so that is saying something and there should at this point be more positive than negative. All of the negative actually IMO make people not even want to come on the boards reading all of the same old crap...Hey if the Chiefs come out and get hammered by the Jags bring on the *****ing at least until the next game...unless of course it happens again.

THIS !! Clark Hunt moved swiftly to try to rectify the abortion of a football season that we saw last year by going after Reid and Dorsey and especially getting rid of Pioli. I will grant you it's still just preseason, but the Chiefs have competed very well against good competition.

Am I the only one that remembers that the Chiefs went 4-12 in Dick Vermeil's first year in 2001 and that Trent Green struggled quite a bit that year? We know what happened afterward from 2002 -- 2005 with the most prolific Offense in Chiefs history. This years squad looks better than that 2001 squad & should at the very least be 6-10, although I'm hoping for better.

The problem with MMO is the constant bashing of Alex Smith and Eric Fisher because they weren't his personal choices -- and they haven't even played a full season with the Chiefs, yet. I've pointed out time and again the Chiefs ZERO success rate drafting QB's since 1970 & he refuses to acknowledge that fact, and the fact that the Chiefs didn't need a developmental QB to replace Cassel, they needed a veteran like Smith that can come in and play right now, and a veteran like Daniel to back him up. Thus far, both have showed a lot of poise under fire that likely would not have come from a rookie QB. Both Smith and Daniel are here to stay for a while, so one needs to get over the idea of drafting a QB in round 1 for the time being because it's not happening & I, for one, am grateful for that given the Chiefs ZERO success rate at drafting QB's. Plus, both Smith and Daniel have won the confidence of their teammates, which is something Cassel and Quinn could not do last year.

Alex Smith wasn't my first choice. I wanted Kirk Cousins, but the Skins aren't trading him as they think he's too valuable and they are right, so Smith was the next best option. I don't care what happened with Smith in SF, it's what he does in KC with Andy Reid that counts now.

Seek
08-26-2013, 01:07 PM
To Seek: I must take a lot of the Blame for the Geno talk in the Steelers game. I was the one that brought him up. I was trying to show My man how silly I though his judgements of Fisher were since he's a rookie. So I must take the Blame for this one.

Actually NO. You dont' get credit. He brought it up on page two. "Geno Smith looks Great." You only continued what he started. Just like a troll, he pushed a button with one sentence and got the reaction he was looking for. Unfortunately, I was reading the thread from my phone as I was shopping for my kid a new bed and time slipped away. So I was not logged in so his post was not ignored. I was looking for information on the game. Not more dung about a player not drafted by the Chiefs.

chiefnut
08-26-2013, 01:18 PM
isn't it ironic that a post that started w/an apology to help end the negative non-productive postings has created another one of the same!!!!!

doobs_05
08-26-2013, 01:35 PM
I like different opinion and critisism on the forum. I mean unless this forums is suppose to be about praising the chiefs every year and declaring we go 18-0 every year and every time we lose its the refs fault and the other team cheated, i mean we can do that and be like a lot of donkey fans i know in my town. People have different opinions, if its not the same as you, that's fine, not a huge deal. I bet every chiefs forum out there has a group that believes 18-0 every year and a group that believes they haven't done enough to go above .500.

And last year i think MMH got banned because he said the chiefs would not win 4 games and a lot of you blasted him for that i remember one comment was like "You really believe the chiefs will not get past those first 6 games without 3 wins and take 3-4 games away from the division." then they went on to call him a troll for that.

mcclusterfan1982
08-26-2013, 01:44 PM
nobody likes a nagging wife. The point is, we all know his opinion and are fine with that. But, he doesn't need to nag and remind us every post about how much he cannot stand Alex Smith. It is the nagging. It is the amount of it. It isn't simply that he has a difference of opinion. $%$ annoying.

mcclusterfan1982
08-26-2013, 01:45 PM
isn't it ironic that a post that started w/an apology to help end the negative non-productive postings has created another one of the same!!!!!

no. we want to get things settled here so that we all can enjoy this in the future. Nothing ironic here.

matthewschiefs
08-26-2013, 01:53 PM
The problem with MMO is the constant bashing of Alex Smith and Eric Fisher because they weren't his personal choices -- and they haven't even played a full season with the Chiefs, yet. I've pointed out time and again the Chiefs ZERO success rate drafting QB's since 1970 & he refuses to acknowledge that fact, and the fact that the Chiefs didn't need a developmental QB to replace Cassel, they needed a veteran like Smith that can come in and play right now, and a veteran like Daniel to back him up. Thus far, both have showed a lot of poise under fire that likely would not have come from a rookie QB. Both Smith and Daniel are here to stay for a while, so one needs to get over the idea of drafting a QB in round 1 for the time being because it's not happening & I, for one, am grateful for that given the Chiefs ZERO success rate at drafting QB's. Plus, both Smith and Daniel have won the confidence of their teammates, which is something Cassel and Quinn could not do last year.

Alex Smith wasn't my first choice. I wanted Kirk Cousins, but the Skins aren't trading him as they think he's too valuable and they are right, so Smith was the next best option. I don't care what happened with Smith in SF, it's what he does in KC with Andy Reid that counts now.

I agree 100%.

I understand wanting to see something from Smith before buying in. And Hey after the QBs we have seen since Trent can we really blame him for wanting to see it before getting all excited? It's understandable. The problem is to go on and on about it. If he would've just let it go there wouldn't be an issue. I think he's a smart guy and I hope he keeps posting because he does have some very valid points. But sometimes you have to keep your emotions in check. I think that got away from him a little bit. It's like when you are having an argument with your wife and part of you really wants to say something out of anger but there's that little voice in the back of your head saying DON'T SAY IT. He sometimes doesn't listen to that little voice.


Actually NO. You dont' get credit. He brought it up on page two. "Geno Smith looks Great." You only continued what he started. Just like a troll, he pushed a button with one sentence and got the reaction he was looking for. Unfortunately, I was reading the thread from my phone as I was shopping for my kid a new bed and time slipped away. So I was not logged in so his post was not ignored. I was looking for information on the game. Not more dung about a player not drafted by the Chiefs.

I forgot about that post lol

But I will say I have brought Geno up far more then him lately again trying to prove a point about his judgment of Fisher.


isn't it ironic that a post that started w/an apology to help end the negative non-productive postings has created another one of the same!!!!!

That it is

How about we just have one big group hug and start over with the fresh season and lets just say GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think we can all agree on that

mcclusterfan1982
08-26-2013, 02:08 PM
How about we just have one big group hug and start over with the fresh season and lets just say GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think we can all agree on that

ok fine. Everyone gets a fresh start. From here. ***joins in the group hug***

chiefnut
08-26-2013, 02:12 PM
ya sure, bring it on in here folks

ctchiefsfan
08-26-2013, 02:32 PM
I've obviously come to this thread too late as MMO/MMH's post seems to have been deleted, but several people I respect have thanked MMO/MMH for his apology, so I'll take their word for it.

Thank you MMH.

I'm going to offer some thoughts on how you can undo the bad feelings many here have had for you...

NO....you don't have to decide you have some sort of man-crush on Alex Smith. Not by a long shot. We all know you feel we should have drafted Geno instead of spending what we did for Alex. You've said, we've read it, we know it.

But y'know, we didn't draft Geno and nothing you can say or do is going to change that. Alex Smith is our QB for at least a year. Just accept what you can't change.

As for how you treat Alex Smith in your posts......

First off, forget about what he did in SF. It's the past. Just like that ex-girlfriend that dumped you...She's the past and Alex Smith's time in SF is the past. Get over it.

Treat Alex Smith fairly. When he runs a good drive, pat him on the back like you did recently about the drive just before the half against Pittsburgh. If he has a game or a drive where he stinks up the joint, go ahead and say it. But leave his time at SF out of it and focus on what he has done as a Chief. And when you feel he deserves criticism that is fine but don't announce that one drive or one game proves that he is never going to amount to a hill of dog turds and that you knew it. Compliment the good. Criticize the bad....but do it gently. Remember...he is our QB and you have "dance with the one you brung."

Nobody here is going to criticize you if you will stop acting as if Alex Smith stole your trophy wife, got her hooked on drugs and then sold her into prostitution. He didn't. Alex Smith didn't ask to be traded to KC. Reid, Dorsey and SF management did that. Alex Smith just went where he was told to. And whether he succeeds or not here I know that he is going to do his very best to make KC fans think he was the best trade they ever made. He wants to become KC's favorite player.

Can he do that? I don't know. You don't know. But you sure don't think so and that's OK. Just don't remind us of it 10 times a day.

As far as I am concerned, Alex Smith is getting a fresh start and since I am willing to give him that, I'm doing the same thing for you. I am taking you off my ignore list and will judge you only by future posts. You could be good for this forum and help make it more active and more fun. Or you can be a cancer here. Think about that before you post.

And remember.....Everybody deserves a second chance.......both Alex Smith AND you. I truly hope you will try as hard as Alex Smith to show you deserve it.

Sincerely.....Ctchiefsfan

doobs_05
08-26-2013, 03:08 PM
First off, forget about what he did in SF. It's the past. Just like that ex-girlfriend that dumped you...She's the past and Alex Smith's time in SF is the past. Get over it.


I think a better one is it's a new gf, you want to know her pass to know what you're getting yourself into, she had those 6 years of sex drugs and rock and roll but the past year and a half have slowly calmed down

Seek
08-26-2013, 04:56 PM
isn't it ironic that a post that started w/an apology to help end the negative non-productive postings has created another one of the same!!!!!

Never read his email. Have him on Ignore. Just responded based on comments from others. If he truly apologized that is a start in the right direction.

#58ChiefsFan
08-26-2013, 07:17 PM
Fair enough MMH. Soon the games will matter and we'll all see what we really do or do not have rather than speculating.

MyManHali
08-26-2013, 07:45 PM
For the record I do not hate Alex Smith... http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php/22447-Alex-Smith/page3?p=273084#post273084


I actually wanted to sign him, just not trade for him.

matthewschiefs
08-26-2013, 09:51 PM
For the record I do not hate Alex Smith... http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php/22447-Alex-Smith/page3?p=273084#post273084


I actually wanted to sign him, just not trade for him.

IT of course would have been better if we could just sign him but the niners knew that teams would be after him and they got the most they could. Reid was willing to pay it. He wanted to trade for Smith when he was with the eagles. I thought when the trade was made that it was to high for Smith given that there were a lot of years that Smith didn't do so well. But if Smith takes this team to the playoffs and gets some playoff wins then the trade will be a bargain IMO

texaschief
08-26-2013, 09:53 PM
Those 2 draft picks are not worth the tantrums you keep throwing.

Lord-Chiefy
08-26-2013, 09:58 PM
Well thank you mymanorton..

Chiefster
08-26-2013, 11:34 PM
While I don't share, at this point, MMH's criticisms much of the time he is entitle to his own point of view and has as much right as anyone to state it. Now if it's his point of view you have a problem with then the ignore feature works quite well or simply decide on your own NOT to read his replies. While we all have a right to make known our opinions, no one has a right to be "read" so to speak. His opinions are just that; his. Continuing to engage him with futile discussion only results in the "beating of a dead horse". Agree or disagree and move on.

jap1
08-27-2013, 12:18 AM
For the record I do not hate Alex Smith... http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php/22447-Alex-Smith/page3?p=273084#post273084


I actually wanted to sign him, just not trade for him.

I definitely was disappointed in how much we gave up for him. That was before the draft. After seeing so many QBs NOT get drafted until the later rounds, it seems to me that all the teams had this QB class rated pretty low. That means any free agents or trades on the market are going to be much more valuable. I think if you look at it that way, then it makes the 2 draft picks seem somewhat more tolerable.

I mean Cassel was on the market for a couple days and got frickin nearly $2 mil/yr. We likely paid the market price for an above average QB. The problem was that it was a sellers market and we were desperate.

Eydugstr
08-27-2013, 10:07 AM
I would like to say a few things to everybody on the board:

I didn't know I rubbed that many people the wrong way on this site, that was never my intention. I will admit that I have been too negative with this regime, even though I originally supported the hiring of Reid and Dorsey. In almost every post I talk about Alex Smith and I realize I have been quite critical of the qb, this has also upset some. I just want this team to do well, I really do. It upsets me that I see a talented team held back with what I believe to be a game manager. However, I do understand Smith is our quarterback atleast for the time being and in the future if I continue to post I promise to be more objective and far less critical.



-MMO

This would be much more believeable if you had omitted one sentence. But it's okay. Coach Crennel understands how you feel, and picked out a song just for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEzmzpoaKek

chiefnut
08-27-2013, 10:54 AM
apparently EVERYONE agrees that we gave up more than they wanted to for Alex, but again EVERYONE wants him to lead us to the playoffs and actually win a playoff game and hopefully more. anyone who would actually be rooting for him to fail and take the CHIEFS down with him could not be a true CHIEFS fan, more likely would have to be like a raders fan. so I am guessing that no one on this board fits into that category. what I don't understand why are we still arguing when we are all rooting for the same thing.

ctchiefsfan
08-27-2013, 10:57 AM
On the subject of the price we paid to get Alex Smith it is important to look at this in context. Right now I can turn on the tap and get a drink of water. So I am not much inclined to pay a lot of money for water. But put me in the middle of the desert with no water for 2 days and there is almost no price I wouldn't pay for water.

Figuratively, the Chiefs were in the desert with no water. The Cassel experiment had proved a failure and we desperately needed a QB. Holding the 1st pick in the draft would have made that an easy choice in most years, just take the top QB in the draft. But this year's QB class was one of the weakest in a long time. Evidently most teams thought that as the 1st two QBs in the draft went at #16 and #39.

In addition, after last years fan revolt I think Reid was under some pressure to "WIN NOW!". I don't think he or Dorsey felt that any of the QBs in the draft had that kind of potential. There was no obvious RG III and Andrew Luck in this years draft class. So if you buy into the idea that Reid and Dorsey felt pressure to "WIN NOW" then it becomes pretty evident that we needed to trade for a QB. Reid it seems had eyed Smith for a while so that was the way we were going to go.

Like anyone, I would have far preferred that SF released Smith and we picked him up, but that wasn't going to happen. With the weak draft class, the value of any sort of veteran QB went WAY UP! Too many teams needed QB, there didn't seem to be much available in the draft, so there were going to be plenty of teams looking to pick up a QB in the "used" market. SF management may be many things, but absolutely stupid isn't one of them. They had a valuable commodity (see water in the desert above) and they was no way they were going to give him away cheap. If we wanted to get a QB in the "used" market we were going to have to pay well for him. It's called supply and demand.

As it turns out, we could have picked Fisher at #1 and still gotten Geno Smith with our second round pick....but NOBODY expected him to be still available when our second round pick came up. So that wasn't an option. We couldn't take the risk. Even if we had known we could get Geno with our second round pick who knows if that would have been better than getting Alex Smith? I've yet to see anything from Geno that says he is going to light any fires this year. He may, but only time will tell. And when it comes to making choices for your football team you have to go with your best estimate of who is going to be able to help you the most. Reid and Dorsey decided that was Alex Smith not Geno.

So....Did we overpay for Smith? Not in the market for QBs that was available at the time. Did we get good value for what we paid? We don't know yet. And we won't know for a while.

But in the end, he is our QB now and he deserves our support until he proves one way or another how good a QB he is.

Lord-Chiefy
08-27-2013, 02:06 PM
well as far as alex, my opinion is that if he plays for us 5-7 years and we are playoff contenders every year and make some deep runs or SB, he was well worth it, especially since there were no qb's in this draft that were worth a pick prior to rd 3 probably 4.

ctchiefsfan
08-27-2013, 03:32 PM
well as far as alex, my opinion is that if he plays for us 5-7 years and we are playoff contenders every year and make some deep runs or SB, he was well worth it, especially since there were no qb's in this draft that were worth a pick prior to rd 3 probably 4.

That is pretty much what I was trying to say. We may have WAAAAY overpaid for him or he may have been the steal of the century. Only time will tell. So long as he plays well, I can live with it if we go 6-10 or better this year. I'm expecting that we may lose a few winnable games early on this year just because so much is new. New GM. New coach. New QB. New offensive scheme. A lot of new stuff for people to learn. But so long as the offense seems to be really coming together by mid-season then I can accept a disappointing record this year. And if we don't make the playoffs this year, then I'd almost rather go 6-10 or 7-9 so that the conditional pick becomes a 2 and a 3 rather than a 2 and 2. But if after that we are always in playoff contention and get a couple of playoff wins over a few years then I'll feel we paid a reasonable price for Alex Smith. If we got a Superbowl appearance with him at the helm....well...then Reid and Dorsey just flat out robbed SF.

But as I have said many times.....only time will tell and anyone that says different is just reading crystal balls.....and I don't much believe in Fortune Tellers.

brdempsey69
08-27-2013, 04:25 PM
^^BINGO, ctchiefsfan. As I've pointed out many times, the best QB's in Chiefs history have came via trade or FA while their success rate at drafting QB's has been a total dud. That, in itself, should tell Chiefs fans to rethink their obsession with drafting a QB and be willing to give Alex Smith and Chase Daniel a fair chance -- at least for 2 or 3 seasons.

nigeriannightmare
08-28-2013, 07:47 AM
MMH. Most people would be okay if you were more objective in your arguments. You absolutely bashed anyone that defended Matt Cassel, yet when Geno threw there picks and had that ridiculously bad safety, you defended him the very way of some us defended Cassel. You know the receiver should have caught that, he was pressured, he had one bad throw. You pull stats to legitamize your claim, yet doesn't portray the story accurately and then just go nuts on those that "drink the koolaid" or are "homers".


Okay you were right about The team last year. It was more than just a QB, without a doubt the worst coaching staff ever assembled. Alex hasn't even played a regular season game for us yet but he sucks. Andy Reid hasn't coached a regular season game and he's stupid for believing in Alex.

Anyway you are a half empty cup kinda guy.

doobs_05
08-28-2013, 01:22 PM
^^BINGO, ctchiefsfan. As I've pointed out many times, the best QB's in Chiefs history have came via trade or FA while their success rate at drafting QB's has been a total dud. That, in itself, should tell Chiefs fans to rethink their obsession with drafting a QB and be willing to give Alex Smith and Chase Daniel a fair chance -- at least for 2 or 3 seasons.

?

KC has 1 super bowl from doing that out of how many tries

Also i'm not happy about the trade but i'm giving the guy a chance

brdempsey69
08-28-2013, 03:46 PM
?

KC has 1 super bowl from doing that out of how many tries

Also i'm not happy about the trade but i'm giving the guy a chance

And how many SB's do they have with the 2 QB's that they did draft in round 1 and the two QB's they took at the top of round 2 under Marty and Carl? How many post-season wins with any of those guys as the starter? ZERO.

doobs_05
08-28-2013, 04:15 PM
So 4 tries out of how many they tried with the FA?

But it doesn't matter, you think the best way is picking up a FA will bring a super bowl one day and i think the path is to get a QB drafted and developed. I would jump on the FA bandwagon if it was one of the Elite QB who was a FA (Rodgers, Brady, etc..) but then age becomes a factor

brdempsey69
08-28-2013, 05:21 PM
So 4 tries out of how many they tried with the FA?

But it doesn't matter, you think the best way is picking up a FA will bring a super bowl one day and i think the path is to get a QB drafted and developed. I would jump on the FA bandwagon if it was one of the Elite QB who was a FA (Rodgers, Brady, etc..) but then age becomes a factor

No, I don't "think" that going the FA/trade route is the best way to get a QB. The Chiefs history has proven that and therefore one can take it for fact.

I didn't say bringing in a QB via FA/trade would win them a SB, although it's already happened. I said the most successful QB's in their history have come via trade/FA. I also mentioned that the Chiefs are ZERO for 17 drafting QB's since 1970 with not one of them becoming a long-term starter and just about all cases, not even a decent backup.

As far as "drafting & developing" a QB, it hasn't happened in this teams history since 1970. In fact, the closest thing was 2nd round draftee Mike Livingston in 1968 and he never did permanently displace Len Dawson until Dawson retired after 1975. Therefore, I would highly suggest to those that are wanting this team to draft & develop a QB, don't hold your breath because you're going to most likely suffocate. How did the latest, Stanzi, do, BTW?

Besides, this obsession with drafting and developing a QB is primarily a "monkey see, monkey do" type thing with people thinking that just because it worked for other teams means that the Chiefs have to do the same, but they don't realize that what happens with other teams is irrelevant to what happens in KC.

texaschief
08-28-2013, 05:36 PM
The "Chiefs overpaid for Alex Smith" argument MMH keeps making is just funny to me considering it's coming from a guy who wanted to take Geno Smith #1 overall.

His whole argument is counterintuitive. He says Alex Smith sucks and isn't worth 2 2nd round picks. Well, he's in luck... because if Alex Smith sucks, he'll only be worth a 2nd and a 3rd. If the Chiefs end up spending 2 2nd round picks, it'll be because Alex DIDN'T suck and the 2nd pick will be a late pick in the round anyway. So, according to the draft trade point chart, the 1st pick in the 2nd rd this year was worth 580 points. If the Chiefs go .500 or better, they'll have to pay the 2nd 2nd rd price tag in 2014. If Alex "sucks" and they don't go .500, it'll be a 3rd round pick. According to last year's draft, that puts the pick anywhere from picks 47-80. That point range is 430-190.

So, if Alex Smith "sucks" as has been argued by MMH over and over again in every thread started on this forum, the Chiefs will end up below .500 and the Chiefs will end up spending 580+~230 for a 29 yo former #1 overall pick with 7 years NFL experience and who rated as a top 5 QB over the last 2 seasons. So, ~810 pts roughly...

Conversely, MMH argues that the Chiefs should have spent the #1 overall pick (3000 POINTS) on a player who went in the 2nd round as the 2nd QB taken in his class, can't supplant the statistically worst QB in the NFL over the last 2 seasons, won only 2 games over the final 8 of his senior season (against teams with a combined record of 7-18), has already been injured, played horribly last week with 3 picks and a safety ( (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1749386-geno-smith-throws-3-interceptions-in-lackluster-preseason-start-vs-giants)ran out of the endzone) right after his coach-described "BRUTAL" (http://rex-ryan-new-york-jets-qb-geno-smith-brutal-practice) day of practice where he threw ANOTHER 3 INT's. Also, don't forget THIS happened (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/colleges/texas/post?id=7940)... and THIS happened (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/26/geno-smith-says-he-wont-be-back-on-friday/)as well. The dude is a mental midget.

You tell me what the better value is... A maximum 1010pts for Alex or 3x that number for Geno.

Pointing out the obvious is still like talking to a brick wall.

TopekaRoy
08-28-2013, 06:07 PM
No, I don't "think" that going the FA/trade route is the best way to get a QB. The Chiefs history has proven that and therefore one can take it for fact. ...

I wasn't aware that we have the same owner, GM and head coach that we had in 1970. Oh, wait a second ... We don't.


Besides, this obsession with drafting and developing a QB is primarily a "monkey see, monkey do" type thing with people thinking that just because it worked for other teams means that the Chiefs have to do the same, but they don't realize that what happens with other teams is irrelevant to what happens in KC.

Other teams have done it. Why can't the Chiefs?

I'm in total agreement that we shouldn't have drafted a QB, this year. Alex was far and away the better choice for this team. But it sounds like you are saying that we should never draft and develop a QB because other Chiefs GMs and head coaches have failed in the past. Don't even try.

The Chiefs haven't won a Super Bowl in a very long time, either. Should they quit trying to do that, too?

texaschief
08-28-2013, 07:28 PM
Not trying to draft and develop a QB is a horrible strategy... but it's not NEARLY as bad as drafting and trying to develop the WRONG QB. This was a horrible year to try and force a QB selection #1 overall. I've said it before: the Chiefs probably wound up with the worst #1 overall pick in the history of the NFL as it pertains to overall elite talent available. That's not a knock on Fisher, but the Chiefs ended up with the #1 pick the year AFTER Andrew Luck and the year BEFORE Clowney... there just wasn't any "elite" talent available. As the preseason wears on, that assertion is becoming more and more evident as most rookies seem to be disappointing in camp and preseason.

Also, the Chiefs got a rookie QB to try and develop. Just because he wasn't drafted does not mean Bray is void of talent and incapable of being an elite starter in this league. I am very interested to see what he does in the future. Again, it's not about where you find the QB that is important... it's about WHO that QB is and if he's worth the investment in draft value, contract value, and time value. Evidently, the new management thinks Bray is worth the monetary and time investment needed to develop the junior out of Tennessee.

brdempsey69
08-28-2013, 07:39 PM
I wasn't aware that we have the same owner, GM and head coach that we had in 1970. Oh, wait a second ... We don't.


WTF does who the owner, GM, and coach have to do with anything? The owner, GM, Coach has proven to be irrelevant. They all failed when it came to drafting QB's, in spite of many those QB's being decent prospects. Even Stanzi was a decent prospect & look what happened to him. Couldn't even beat Palko out for playing time.



Other teams have done it. Why can't the Chiefs?


That's my point. The Chiefs haven't done it -- making it irrelevant what other teams have done. ZERO for 17 since 1970 and when your success rate is that bad, you had damn well better be looking at other alternatives.



I'm in total agreement that we shouldn't have drafted a QB, this year. Alex was far and away the better choice for this team. But it sounds like you are saying that we should never draft and develop a QB because other Chiefs GMs and head coaches have failed in the past. Don't even try.


How much you want to bet that a QB drafted by the current regime will have suffer the same fate of the previous 17 drafted by previous regimes. The only thing that no regime has tried is drafting TWO QB's in the same draft -- which is why I suggested double-dipping at the QB position, if they drafted a QB in 2013 prior to the 2013 draft.



The Chiefs haven't won a Super Bowl in a very long time, either. Should they quit trying to do that, too?

WTF does that have do with anything I mentioned about lack of success drafting QB's? There's was nothing in any of my posts to even remotely suggest any such thing.

MyManHali
08-28-2013, 07:56 PM
The "Chiefs overpaid for Alex Smith" argument MMH keeps making is just funny to me considering it's coming from a guy who wanted to take Geno Smith #1 overall.

His whole argument is counterintuitive. He says Alex Smith sucks and isn't worth 2 2nd round picks. Well, he's in luck... because if Alex Smith sucks, he'll only be worth a 2nd and a 3rd. If the Chiefs end up spending 2 2nd round picks, it'll be because Alex DIDN'T suck and the 2nd pick will be a late pick in the round anyway. So, according to the draft trade point chart, the 1st pick in the 2nd rd this year was worth 580 points. If the Chiefs go .500 or better, they'll have to pay the 2nd 2nd rd price tag in 2014. If Alex "sucks" and they don't go .500, it'll be a 3rd round pick. According to last year's draft, that puts the pick anywhere from picks 47-80. That point range is 430-190.

So, if Alex Smith "sucks" as has been argued by MMH over and over again in every thread started on this forum, the Chiefs will end up below .500 and the Chiefs will end up spending 580+~230 for a 29 yo former #1 overall pick with 7 years NFL experience and who rated as a top 5 QB over the last 2 seasons. So, ~810 pts roughly...

Conversely, MMH argues that the Chiefs should have spent the #1 overall pick (3000 POINTS) on a player who went in the 2nd round as the 2nd QB taken in his class, can't supplant the statistically worst QB in the NFL over the last 2 seasons, won only 2 games over the final 8 of his senior season (against teams with a combined record of 7-18), has already been injured, played horribly last week with 3 picks and a safety ( (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1749386-geno-smith-throws-3-interceptions-in-lackluster-preseason-start-vs-giants)ran out of the endzone) right after his coach-described "BRUTAL" (http://rex-ryan-new-york-jets-qb-geno-smith-brutal-practice) day of practice where he threw ANOTHER 3 INT's. Also, don't forget THIS happened (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/colleges/texas/post?id=7940)... and THIS happened (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/26/geno-smith-says-he-wont-be-back-on-friday/)as well. The dude is a mental midget.

You tell me what the better value is... A maximum 1010pts for Alex or 3x that number for Geno.

Pointing out the obvious is still like talking to a brick wall.



I wanted to take the best qb in the draft, I didn't care who it was because I know that the only way we will get anywhere is drafting and developing a franchise qb. EJ Manuel has looked better than Alex Smith, and he's a rookie. We could atleast try, acquiring backups for 15 years has gotten us nowhere. It was Geno's first start, so what. Since you want to make the direct comparison what did Alex Smith do in his first SIX years in the NFL besides get benched over and over?

You also didn't put the possibility of our number 1 pick Fisher being a flop in your little equation (he hasn't looked good so far).

Your plan of avoiding risk for 15 years or so has worked out beautifully!

ctchiefsfan
08-28-2013, 08:35 PM
^^BINGO, ctchiefsfan. As I've pointed out many times, the best QB's in Chiefs history have came via trade or FA while their success rate at drafting QB's has been a total dud. That, in itself, should tell Chiefs fans to rethink their obsession with drafting a QB and be willing to give Alex Smith and Chase Daniel a fair chance -- at least for 2 or 3 seasons.

I may have a little less patience than you. I can live with 7-9 or 6-10 this year. Maybe even 5-11. But by game 8 I want to see the offense showing that they can make us a contender next year. If they do that then I can live with whatever the record is this year. A 7-9 record with us looking no better at the end of the season than we did at the start would make me VERY unhappy. I just want to see a team that is COMMITTED to success. No more giving up if we are down by 14. No more quitting. I WANT CHIEFS ON THE FIELD!!!!

matthewschiefs
08-28-2013, 08:36 PM
I wanted to take the best qb in the draft, I didn't care who it was because I know that the only way we will get anywhere is drafting and developing a franchise qb. EJ Manuel has looked better than Alex Smith, and he's a rookie. We could atleast try, acquiring backups for 15 years has gotten us nowhere. It was Geno's first start, so what. Since you want to make the direct comparison what did Alex Smith do in his first SIX years in the NFL besides get benched over and over?

You also didn't put the possibility of our number 1 pick Fisher being a flop in your little equation (he hasn't looked good so far).

Your plan of avoiding risk for 15 years or so has worked out beautifully!

If this were any other draft I think most on here would have been with you on drafting a QB myself included. If Aaron Murray had entered the draft then I would have been all for getting him. But the fact is there just wasn't a QB worth the number 1 pick in this past draft. Will one pan out to being worth a 1st round pick outside of Manuel maybe there's a good chance of it happening it happens alot. But they couldn't risk it at 1 overall with this weak at the top draft class. Most years the guys going at the top this year would have gone later in the draft. We just got stuck with the 1st pick in the wrong year.

As for Manuel looking better my question to you is did he go up against defense like the niners? The Niners d is STACKED some of there backups could start with other teams. You have talked about how good there D is yourself.

And Smith hasn't looked bad at all. The niners CRUSHED the O line in every way. More then just Fisher. The O line was TERRIBLE that game to put it mildly. Smith got drilled on a quick screen right up the middle The offense hasn't put it together yet and that's what preseason is for. They were showing signs of getting together against a pretty good Steelers D so there's some hope.

ctchiefsfan
08-28-2013, 08:41 PM
Also i'm not happy about the trade but i'm giving the guy a chance

Fair enough. That is EXACTLY what Alex Smith deserves....Once we get to about game 12 we can start arguing if he should stay or go.

matthewschiefs
08-28-2013, 08:43 PM
WTF does who the owner, GM, and coach have to do with anything? The owner, GM, Coach has proven to be irrelevant. They all failed when it came to drafting QB's, in spite of many those QB's being decent prospects. Even Stanzi was a decent prospect & look what happened to him. Couldn't even beat Palko out for playing time.



That's my point. The Chiefs haven't done it -- making it irrelevant what other teams have done. ZERO for 17 since 1970 and when your success rate is that bad, you had damn well better be looking at other alternatives.



How much you want to bet that a QB drafted by the current regime will have suffer the same fate of the previous 17 drafted by previous regimes. The only thing that no regime has tried is drafting TWO QB's in the same draft -- which is why I suggested double-dipping at the QB position, if they drafted a QB in 2013 prior to the 2013 draft.



WTF does that have do with anything I mentioned about lack of success drafting QB's? There's was nothing in any of my posts to even remotely suggest any such thing.

I understand what you're saying but I think the Chiefs Just have to be smarter. The past mistakes were made by a different groupA couple of different groups. And they haven't worked. But that doesn't mean they can't draft a QB. If there was a Luck or RGIII this draft I think no question that's the choice they would have gone with. The mistakes of the past need to be learned from. But if the Chiefs see a guy in the draft that they feel can be the QBOTF then they have to make that choice if they have him at the top of the board. I don't think the mistakes of the past have anything to do with the drafts that are yet to come. The Chiefs just got to be smarter and find a QB that can take them far no matter where it comes from. Maybe they have that guy with Smith maybe not. But if Smith struggles this year and there's a QB in the draft they feel can do the job and whos value is fitting of where they are picking they have to take that QB. They can't be scared off by mistakes others have made

texaschief
08-28-2013, 09:49 PM
I wanted to take the best qb in the draft, I didn't care who it was because I know that the only way we will get anywhere is drafting and developing a franchise qb. EJ Manuel has looked better than Alex Smith, and he's a rookie. We could atleast try, acquiring backups for 15 years has gotten us nowhere. It was Geno's first start, so what. Since you want to make the direct comparison what did Alex Smith do in his first SIX years in the NFL besides get benched over and over?

You also didn't put the possibility of our number 1 pick Fisher being a flop in your little equation (he hasn't looked good so far).

Your plan of avoiding risk for 15 years or so has worked out beautifully!

A "direct comparison" is comparing what the players have done recently and what they CURRENTLY are doing... a side by side comparison of the players the Chiefs would be putting on the field... not projected potential against a player's first 5 year history while ommitting the most recent 2 seasons. At the NFL level, Alex Smith has been great the last 2 seasons. Geno beat 2 teams over his last 9 starts. One of those teams only won 1 game the whole season. His most recent start at the NFL level was a complete disaster against a team coming off a 4 win season and which ranked dead last in turnover ratio.

Your Fisher analysis is much like your Geno analysis... horribly weak, based on a small sample size, and full of holes.

GO AWAY TROLL

texaschief
08-28-2013, 09:57 PM
The Steelers had the #1 ranked overall defense last season. The 49ers had the #3 ranked defense... and you're stunned that this team struggled DURING THE PRESEASON to move the ball with the effeciency of an elite unit that has played multiple seasons together.


The Chiefs were leading or tied at the half of both games, btw. So obviously... this will be a lost season. What a joke

texaschief
08-28-2013, 10:10 PM
A "direct comparison" is comparing what the players have done recently and what they CURRENTLY are doing... a side by side comparison of the players the Chiefs would be putting on the field... not projected potential against a player's first 5 year history while ommitting the most recent 2 seasons. At the NFL level, Alex Smith has been great the last 2 seasons. Geno beat 2 teams over his last 9 starts. One of those teams only won 1 game the whole season. His most recent start at the NFL level was a complete disaster against a team coming off a 4 win season and which ranked dead last in turnover ratio.

Your Fisher analysis is much like your Geno analysis... horribly weak, based on a small sample size, and full of holes.

GO AWAY TROLL

i was looking at the wrong team. The Giants actually had the 31st ranked Defense last season... my bad

matthewschiefs
08-28-2013, 10:16 PM
A "direct comparison" is comparing what the players have done recently and what they CURRENTLY are doing... a side by side comparison of the players the Chiefs would be putting on the field... not projected potential against a player's first 5 year history while ommitting the most recent 2 seasons. At the NFL level, Alex Smith has been great the last 2 seasons. Geno beat 2 teams over his last 9 starts. One of those teams only won 1 game the whole season. His most recent start at the NFL level was a complete disaster against a team coming off a 4 win season and which ranked dead last in turnover ratio.

Your Fisher analysis is much like your Geno analysis... horribly weak, based on a small sample size, and full of holes.

GO AWAY TROLL

I have to sorta disagree with you here a bit.

Geno is a rookie. Smith is not. Smith has had time to adapt to the NFL. Geno has not. Geno's playing in a bad offense with a head coach that looks defeated like he knows already he's in his last year. Like I told MyMan with Smith you have to take the situation into account and not be as hard on him for his struggles in the preseason. That and the fact that he's a rookie and many a rookie has looked bad in there first preseason and went on to have great careers and a guy like Ryan Leaf looked good his first preseason and we all know how that turned out. Like I said to Myman about Fisher judging a rookie in his first preseason is Silly. And it's not exactly fair to compare a rookie to a vet IMO. At least not the first few games. The thing with Rookies is they will make rookie mistakes they will have rookie moments it happens to just about every rookie. Where you begin to judge is at the end of the year is he repeating those mistakes or did he learn from them. Geno could turn out to be a good QB in the NFL looking at his preseason in year 1 is a bit unfair. Judging Geno in his rookie preseason is no better then judging Fisher by myman

texaschief
08-28-2013, 10:27 PM
But the Chiefs don't have a Mark Sanchez to fall back on. The Chiefs were in the market for a STARTING QB. They were going to spend their resources on the player that was going to give them the best chance to win... not a guy they could bring along at a slow pace. The Chiefs had to compare apples to apples when figuring out who they were going to put on the field to lead their offense this season and next. It was either going to be a 7 year NFL vet who's been a top 5 QB the past 2 years for a couple draft picks or a rookie who had only won 2 games against weak opponents over his last 8 for a much higher price tag.

This was a no-brain decision. Will Geno get better? Probably. I didn't think he'd be a very good NFL QB from the start, but I didn't think he'd be THAT bad. But it's pretty telling when you're not even competing to take the NFL's worst QB's job. If he can't compete as a 2nd round pick, can you imagine how disasterous things would be if he were performing this way with "#1 overall pick" attached to his name? If you're already thinking Fisher is a bust after his performance against the 49ers, what in the world would you be thinking about Geno after last weekend?

brdempsey69
08-28-2013, 10:45 PM
If you're already thinking Fisher is a bust after his performance against the 49ers, what in the world would you be thinking about Geno after last weekend?

Truth be told, the rest of the O-line looked even worse than Fisher did in that game. What happened was the Chiefs didn't go into that game against SF with any sort of a game plan & Fisher was playing hurt. Fisher looked healthier and played very well against Pittsburgh. He'll suffer from inexperience in his 1st year in the NFL from time to time. We'll know what we have with after his 2nd year.

Justin5772002
08-28-2013, 11:10 PM
Gotta give fisher time to adjust sides he was an elite left tackle we moved him out of necessity our fault that we took him 1st overall if in fact he cannot compete at an NFL level. But then again Albert was still up in the air at that point we needed insurance

MyManHali
08-28-2013, 11:27 PM
If this were any other draft I think most on here would have been with you on drafting a QB myself included. If Aaron Murray had entered the draft then I would have been all for getting him. But the fact is there just wasn't a QB worth the number 1 pick in this past draft. Will one pan out to being worth a 1st round pick outside of Manuel maybe there's a good chance of it happening it happens alot. But they couldn't risk it at 1 overall with this weak at the top draft class. Most years the guys going at the top this year would have gone later in the draft. We just got stuck with the 1st pick in the wrong year.

As for Manuel looking better my question to you is did he go up against defense like the niners? The Niners d is STACKED some of there backups could start with other teams. You have talked about how good there D is yourself.

And Smith hasn't looked bad at all. The niners CRUSHED the O line in every way. More then just Fisher. The O line was TERRIBLE that game to put it mildly. Smith got drilled on a quick screen right up the middle The offense hasn't put it together yet and that's what preseason is for. They were showing signs of getting together against a pretty good Steelers D so there's some hope.



It's the same excuse almost every year. "There just isn't a quarterback worth it right now." Meanwhile we blow picks on players like Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson and Baldwin. We sure can try to get quality DL talent but a qb? That's far too risky. I don't remember Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan being a sure thing but it was obvious that the risk was worth it to those teams. So I ask, when is a qb going to be worth it? When it's the sure thing? I guarantee you we will never see a "sure thing" qb like Luck that comes along once every 10 years.

texaschief
08-29-2013, 12:12 AM
Everyone hated the Tyson Jackson pick too. A Geno Smith pick would've been even worse. Their talents just don't warrant the high selection. At least Geno was drafted where he was valued... unlike Tyson Jackson.

TopekaRoy
08-29-2013, 12:55 AM
WTF does who the owner, GM, and coach have to do with anything? The owner, GM, Coach has proven to be irrelevant. They all failed when it came to drafting QB's, in spite of many those QB's being decent prospects. Even Stanzi was a decent prospect & look what happened to him. Couldn't even beat Palko out for playing time.

Aahhhhhhhhhhh! I am literally smacking my head right now--left hand, open palm, center of the forehead. WTF does the current owner, GM and head coach have to do with previous staff? You still haven't answered this question.


That's my point. The Chiefs haven't done it -- making it irrelevant what other teams have done. ZERO for 17 since 1970 and when your success rate is that bad, you had damn well better be looking at other alternatives.

The Chiefs haven't done it, so far. Give me one good reason why the current management can't do it going forward.


How much you want to bet that a QB drafted by the current regime will have suffer the same fate of the previous 17 drafted by previous regimes.

A million dollars. So far the current regime hasn't drafted a QB, so prove me wrong!


The only thing that no regime has tried is drafting TWO QB's in the same draft -- which is why I suggested double-dipping at the QB position, if they drafted a QB in 2013 prior to the 2013 draft.

Oh, I see. The Chiefs can't draft and develop a QB. So let's make that mistake twice in the same draft.


WTF does [not winning a Super Bowl] have do with anything I mentioned about lack of success drafting QB's? There's was nothing in any of my posts to even remotely suggest any such thing.

How is it any different? You say we shouldn't draft a QB because other past regimes have failed to draft and develop a QB even though other teams do it all the time. You have yet to tell me why this regime can't do it. The Chiefs haven't won a Super Bowl since 1969, but you say they should keep trying to do that, but they shouldn't try to draft and develop a QB. What's the difference?

I want to understand why you hold this position, but I can't unless you give me an actual logical reason!

matthewschiefs
08-29-2013, 01:15 AM
It's the same excuse almost every year. "There just isn't a quarterback worth it right now." Meanwhile we blow picks on players like Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson and Baldwin. We sure can try to get quality DL talent but a qb? That's far too risky. I don't remember Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan being a sure thing but it was obvious that the risk was worth it to those teams. So I ask, when is a qb going to be worth it? When it's the sure thing? I guarantee you we will never see a "sure thing" qb like Luck that comes along once every 10 years.

Well most the time we haven't had the number 1 pick. Most the time the QBS high on the board are already off the board when it comes time for the Chiefs to pick.

Flacco and Ryan were thought to have a chance to be good but you're right they were no sure thing. But they were also MUCH higher rated then any QB this year. There were a number of teams that needed a QB outside of the Chiefs most to a pass on them in round 1. That's just how this years QB class played out. Now maybe one of them makes all those GMs look stupid but right now we have nothing to say they are. But it's TO early to even think about that. And also Reid has liked Alex Smith for a while he wanted to trade for him in Philly he had his chance to get him because he thinks he fits his system. So we can just hope that it works out with Smith

This team has made a number of mistakes in the draft. But those mistakes were not made by this management This managment at the moment hasn't made a mistake that we know of. Maybe they have and we will find that out but not yet.

MyManHali
08-29-2013, 01:21 AM
Everyone hated the Tyson Jackson pick too. A Geno Smith pick would've been even worse. Their talents just don't warrant the high selection. At least Geno was drafted where he was valued... unlike Tyson Jackson.



Tyson Jackson was not valued at number 3.

Concerning Geno Smith, he is labeled a bust after one pre season game? Shouldn't we give him the same amount of time Alex Smith was given? I dont know, about 6 years? I guess after Fisher's dreadful preseason we should label him a bust as well. RT=Playmaker.

brdempsey69
08-29-2013, 02:25 AM
Aahhhhhhhhhhh! I am literally smacking my head right now--left hand, open palm, center of the forehead. WTF does the current owner, GM and head coach have to do with previous staff? You still haven't answered this question.


I didn't say the current regime had anything with the previous ones. I said the failures have occurred regardless of the regime. Even with Don Klosterman, who had a track record few GM's could match when it came to evaluating talent, busted on Pete Beathard in 1963.

And you didn't ask a question -- you made a statement to the effect that we still had the same regime in place as in 1970 & I never suggested such.



The Chiefs haven't done it, so far. Give me one good reason why the current management can't do it going forward.



They can try, but I already know the odds are against them. I'll believe in the success when I see it.


A million dollars. So far the current regime hasn't drafted a QB, so prove me wrong!

I already know they haven't drafted a QB...yet. I was suggesting if they do in the future & I suspect you were aware of what I was suggesting. So you ain't right about anything in that regard. Come place that bet in the future if they do draft a QB. I'll stake 500.00 if they draft just one QB in any future drafts ( not two ).



Oh, I see. The Chiefs can't draft and develop a QB. So let's make that mistake twice in the same draft.

That's not what I'm saying or suggesting. I was suggesting the double-dip at QB because never before have they done this and perhaps by doing that, maybe they finally will hit on one of their QB choices & I stated that prior to the draft.



How is it any different? You say we shouldn't draft a QB because other past regimes have failed to draft and develop a QB even though other teams do it all the time. You have yet to tell me why this regime can't do it. The Chiefs haven't won a Super Bowl since 1969, but you say they should keep trying to do that, but they shouldn't try to draft and develop a QB. What's the difference?

I want to understand why you hold this position, but I can't unless you give me an actual logical reason!

The difference is they actually have won a Super Bowl, but they haven't drafted & developed a QB and two don't really tie hand in hand. What round did the Chiefs draft Len Dawson in? Or Joe Montana? Or Rich Gannon? Or Trent Green? Or Alex Smith or Chase Daniel? None. And I'm suspecting from what we've seen already, that Smith and Daniel will play QB for the Chiefs better than anybody they've ever drafted. The previous four I mentioned before Smith and Daniel were the best QB's in Chiefs history.

You have yet to tell me why you think the current regime can. People were singing the same song about the Pioli regime because of Tom Brady in NE prior to the 2011 draft & were all elated when he took Stanzi in spite of my warning them about the Chiefs history when it came to drafting QB's. Well, we saw what happened there. You can scoff just like they did, but you won't be able to say that somebody didn't tell you so, if they draft another QB and he busts just like the previous 17 have since 1970.

A ZERO for 17 track record since 1970 is a logical reason, regardless if one wants to believe it or not.

tornadospotter
08-29-2013, 03:01 AM
So you will BAN a person for negative opinions? Seriously? A lot of stuff (not all) that MMH writes is actually true, and I agree with some of his points. A little diversity is good. If everybody had the same opinions, this site would be a pretty boring place to be. If you decide to ban MMH - then ban me too.

To clear this up, disciplinary action taken by the mods at request by members are sometime taken to a discussion between the Mods and Site Owner. I have stood up for MMH/MMO in the past. To clear up any misunderstanding of my post, I am simply telling MMH, I am done standing up for him. I did not state I would ban unless needed by rules. But I would give an opinion to do so from complaints from members! I for one, am sick of the Negative slants of post, before the new season has begun.

TopekaRoy
08-29-2013, 03:59 AM
You have yet to tell me why you think the current regime can.

I don't know if they can or cannot because they haven't tried it, yet. You are the one who has stated categorically that they can't draft and develop a QB because others have failed. Clark Hunt is not Lamar Hunt. John Dorsey is not Scott Pioli and Andy Reid is not Todd Haley (Thank God!). They have nothing to do with previous staff. To say they can't draft and develop a QB is like saying the Chiefs can never win a Super Bowl because they went 2-14 last season. The past has nothing​ to do with the present!

Chiefster
08-29-2013, 07:24 AM
So you will BAN a person for negative opinions? Seriously? A lot of stuff (not all) that MMH writes is actually true, and I agree with some of his points. A little diversity is good. If everybody had the same opinions, this site would be a pretty boring place to be. If you decide to ban MMH - then ban me too.


To clear this up, disciplinary action taken by the mods at request by members are sometime taken to a discussion between the Mods and Site Owner. I have stood up for MMH/MMO in the past. To clear up any misunderstanding of my post, I am simply telling MMH, I am done standing up for him. I did not state I would ban unless needed by rules. But I would give an opinion to do so from complaints from members! I for one, am sick of the Negative slants of post, before the new season has begun.

TS is not suggesting that a ban would be in order simply for providing a varying point of view nor would anyone here ask that MMH "Homer" himself. What he is suggesting, if I understand him correctly, is that a constant non-stop barrage of negativity brings the entire board down and degrades the site experience. Factor in a barrage of member complaints and you have a situation that will compel the site leadership to take some kind of action.

Personally I don't dislike MMH, but personal feelings cannot factor into disciplinary action.

brdempsey69
08-29-2013, 10:41 AM
I don't know if they can or cannot because they haven't tried it, yet. You are the one who has stated categorically that they can't draft and develop a QB because others have failed. Clark Hunt is not Lamar Hunt. John Dorsey is not Scott Pioli and Andy Reid is not Todd Haley (Thank God!). They have nothing to do with previous staff. To say they can't draft and develop a QB is like saying the Chiefs can never win a Super Bowl because they went 2-14 last season. The past has nothing​ to do with the present!

Incorrect. I didn't say they can't. I said the odds are stacked against them because of what's happened with this franchise historically regardless of who was in place. You are ripping things out of context. And you are singing the same song about the current regime as people were about the Pioli regime regarding the drafting of QB's. My analysis regarding this teams ZERO success at drafting QB's still stands & the new regime already went a different direction when it came to addressing the Chiefs QB situation, which I applaud them for. I also suspect they won't need to draft a QB for quite some time.

Seek
08-29-2013, 10:49 AM
Incorrect. I didn't say they can't. I said the odds are stacked against them because of what's happened with this franchise historically regardless of who was in place. You are ripping things out of context. And you are singing the same song about the current regime as people were about the Pioli regime regarding the drafting of QB's. My analysis regarding this teams ZERO success at drafting QB's still stands & the new regime already went a different direction when it came to addressing the Chiefs QB situation, which I applaud them for. I also suspect they won't need to draft a QB for quite some time.

The thing I like is that I believe Alex is under contract for two years. So they are not completely tied to him for a long run should his last two years in San Fran be a result of San Fran and not Alex. So depending on how this year goes, they very well could be drafting a QB next year if the pick is there. If the chiefs do not go .500 they don't lose their second rounder. They may also find that Bray is a better QB than expected and find no need to draft a QB for at least another year.

matthewschiefs
08-29-2013, 10:59 AM
Incorrect. I didn't say they can't. I said the odds are stacked against them because of what's happened with this franchise historically regardless of who was in place. You are ripping things out of context. And you are singing the same song about the current regime as people were about the Pioli regime regarding the drafting of QB's. My analysis regarding this teams ZERO success at drafting QB's still stands & the new regime already went a different direction when it came to addressing the Chiefs QB situation, which I applaud them for. I also suspect they won't need to draft a QB for quite some time.

I don't think that this teams past when it comes to drafting a QB had anything to do with why they didn't draft a QB. I think it had everything to do with this past draft was just the weakest QB class in years. If there had been a guy who anyone had the belief that he could be a franchise QB I think they would have gone that rout.

And people did start off very high on Pioli and there was a reason he had a good track record it didn't work out. That doesn't have anything to do with this new GM/Head coach combo. The sins of the past and the mistakes of the past probably have not even crossed there mind. NFL Gms have to have a confidence about them. They have to believe in themselves or they wouldn't get to where they are. In there minds they can find the guy. I have no doubt that's the same with Dorsey. He was just with a WEAK draft class at qb and he had a head coach who wanted 1 QB who he had wanted in the past.

brdempsey69
08-29-2013, 01:15 PM
The thing I like is that I believe Alex is under contract for two years. So they are not completely tied to him for a long run should his last two years in San Fran be a result of San Fran and not Alex. So depending on how this year goes, they very well could be drafting a QB next year if the pick is there. If the chiefs do not go .500 they don't lose their second rounder. They may also find that Bray is a better QB than expected and find no need to draft a QB for at least another year.


Good point. Personally, I'd like to see the Alex Smith, Chase Daniel, and Tyler Bray triad work out to the extent that they don't need to draft a QB for a while and they can focus on other areas.


I don't think that this teams past when it comes to drafting a QB had anything to do with why they didn't draft a QB. I think it had everything to do with this past draft was just the weakest QB class in years. If there had been a guy who anyone had the belief that he could be a franchise QB I think they would have gone that rout.

And people did start off very high on Pioli and there was a reason he had a good track record it didn't work out. That doesn't have anything to do with this new GM/Head coach combo. The sins of the past and the mistakes of the past probably have not even crossed there mind. NFL Gms have to have a confidence about them. They have to believe in themselves or they wouldn't get to where they are. In there minds they can find the guy. I have no doubt that's the same with Dorsey. He was just with a WEAK draft class at qb and he had a head coach who wanted 1 QB who he had wanted in the past.

Matt, I didn't say the teams history was why Dorsey/Reid didn't draft a QB -- they probably aren't even aware of it. What I said was I was glad that they went the route that they did, given the teams rotten luck historically when it comes to drafting QB's. My point is that the regime in place doesn't matter because the success rate is still the same -- ZERO. If this new regime does hit on a choice of a drafted QB, then great, but I'll believe it when I see it.

And I'm not giving over to MMH's BS theory that "the Chiefs have to draft and develop a QB or they won't go anywhere". There is nothing to substantiate that & I don't care if other teams have done it because what other teams do is irrelevant to what happens in KC.

doobs_05
08-29-2013, 01:25 PM
Fair enough. That is EXACTLY what Alex Smith deserves....Once we get to about game 12 we can start arguing if he should stay or go.

Hell, I thought thigpin was a terrible choice for a QB (and i remember some people thought we should of kept him going), but damn did i have fun watching his games lol

Also that's if he gets 12 games in, dude in injure prone

And people who say "geno threw 3 picks lulz", if that was a rookie QB that KC drafted, you'd say "Hey, he's a rookie and they'll make mistakes, better to make them now then later"

chiefnut
08-29-2013, 04:40 PM
you may have overlooked a golden opportunity here to prove/disprove your arguments. we now have tyler bray who is a golden armed QB that needs developing. he mad it thru the first cut and by all accounts has made it onto the 53 man roster. maybe this new group can bring him along slowly and give us our franchise QB of the future. now don't go beating up on me I am not forecasting that I am only pointing out that the last few pages of posts about developing a young QB may apply to tyler. he certainly has the talent

TopekaRoy
08-29-2013, 05:02 PM
... we now have tyler bray who is a golden armed QB that needs developing...

That's another thing the Chiefs have had bad luck with---quarterbacks named "Tyler!"

... Palko ... Thigpen ...

brdempsey69
08-29-2013, 05:26 PM
That's another thing the Chiefs have had bad luck with---quarterbacks named "Tyler!"

... Palko ... Thigpen ...

Perhaps the third time will be a charm. Time will tell.

matthewschiefs
08-29-2013, 06:12 PM
Good point. Personally, I'd like to see the Alex Smith, Chase Daniel, and Tyler Bray triad work out to the extent that they don't need to draft a QB for a while and they can focus on other areas.



Matt, I didn't say the teams history was why Dorsey/Reid didn't draft a QB -- they probably aren't even aware of it. What I said was I was glad that they went the route that they did, given the teams rotten luck historically when it comes to drafting QB's. My point is that the regime in place doesn't matter because the success rate is still the same -- ZERO. If this new regime does hit on a choice of a drafted QB, then great, but I'll believe it when I see it.

And I'm not giving over to MMH's BS theory that "the Chiefs have to draft and develop a QB or they won't go anywhere". There is nothing to substantiate that & I don't care if other teams have done it because what other teams do is irrelevant to what happens in KC.

I'm not one on that you have to draft a QB thing myself. I have said this many times you just need to find the RIGHT QB. IF that through the draft Great if it's through the free agent market GREAT if that's through trade GREAT. If you get the right guy you can win. It's that simple. I hope the Chiefs have the right guy now. I hope Smith is the right guy. I'm sure he's better then what we saw last year but I don't know if Smith is good enough I hope to see he is but I will wait and see on that one.

matthewschiefs
08-29-2013, 06:12 PM
That's another thing the Chiefs have had bad luck with---quarterbacks named "Tyler!"

... Palko ... Thigpen ...

Thigpen should sue you for slander for mentioning him with Palko LOL Palko was by far the worse QB we have seen in the last few years.

texaschief
08-29-2013, 08:01 PM
Tyson Jackson was not valued at number 3.

Concerning Geno Smith, he is labeled a bust after one pre season game? Shouldn't we give him the same amount of time Alex Smith was given? I dont know, about 6 years? I guess after Fisher's dreadful preseason we should label him a bust as well. RT=Playmaker.


Read carefully.

ctchiefsfan
08-30-2013, 09:53 AM
Hell, I thought thigpin was a terrible choice for a QB (and i remember some people thought we should of kept him going), but damn did i have fun watching his games lol

Also that's if he gets 12 games in, dude in injure prone

And people who say "geno threw 3 picks lulz", if that was a rookie QB that KC drafted, you'd say "Hey, he's a rookie and they'll make mistakes, better to make them now then later"

doobs.....I'm not bashing Geno. I don't bash any player not in our division unless he a Fish from Miami or a Scumskin. Geno had a lousy game....in his first preseason start in the NFL. It doesn't mean much...if anything. My only serious thoughts on Geno are that I'd have been VERY disappointed if we had taken him with the #1 pick overall. I just don't think he was worth it. And I guess a few other teams agreed with me since he went at #39.

I'm happier with what we did (the trade for Alex and getting Fisher) than I would have been taking Geno as #1. Of course, I am happier with it NOW. Will I still be happy with it at the end of the season? Only time will tell. I think we have a pretty darned good management team in Reid and Dorsey....or anyway, a lot better than I would be.