Fire Sutton and....

[Frankenchief]

OK, this probably won't happen. Sutton is not as bad as GRob (ooh I just got a nasty chill typing that name), but he does not know how to adjust. We could do a lot better for DC.

Furthermore the title of this thread is somewhat hypothetical because I don't think Andy will fire his friend Sutton. That said, who would you want as the Chiefs next DC is by some miracle Sutton was dumped?... And why?

- Wade Phillips?
- Ray Horton?
- Any of the recently fired HCs?

[rodu]

If we fire him, I still want to stay a 3-4 defense, but yeah, teams have been suing the same blueprint against us for like two months

[Pro_Angler]

I agree 100% fire Sutton

[MissingTBone]

I say you don't fire Sutton. It's his first year as our DC. You've got to give him some time. We need to get some players on that side of the ball that can play the game the way the coaches want it done. If we do that and still have issues then fire him. But not without giving him the chance to get good players. It's not his fault that Robinson can't cover any more than it was his fat that Copper was getting lit up early in the year. Gotta give him time to implement his defense with his type of players. As bad as it sucks to have lost, were leaps and bounds ahead of where we were last year. You take the best player off any team in the playoffs and it's gonna be hard for them to win. Now lose 5 good players in the same game and becomes even more difficult. We have to learn to win in the playoffs. Unfortunately most I our guys don't know how to win there yet, but here's hoping this was the first step in that direction. Next year we have a tougher schedule and hopefully a better more focused team!! Either way I'm proud of this team!!

[Frankenchief]

I say you don't fire Sutton. It's his first year as our DC. You've got to give him some time. We need to get some players on that side of the ball that can play the game the way the coaches want it done.

I'm USUALLY in the same boat as what you are saying. And I'm sure Andy and Dorsey see it that way too. But the exception to my personal rule is this went on week in and week out. Our D got adjusted upon and Sutton was not imaginative enough to anticipate their adjustments. Hence, almost no nail left on my hands thanks to all those 'adventurous' 2nd halves. This is very frustrating and sometimes heartbreaking. Fans don't deserve this. With a 28 point lead in the 2nd half yesterday I was still nervous hat we might still lose the game.

An imaginative DC puts himself in the shoes of the opposition's OC at halftime. "What would I do if I were him?" he should think, "And what should I do to counter?" Sutton has been woefully short on imagination and it has cost us dearly this season.

It just looks like we should not pass up on someone like Wade Phillips now that he may be available. Not a great HC, but a great DC.

[Bike]

I agree with Tbone here. We need some coaching consistency after years of revolving doors. Sutton lapsed by not double teaming Hilton, but our secondary was $#@! To begin with.

[Eydugstr]

OK, this probably won't happen. Sutton is not as bad as GRob (ooh I just got a nasty chill typing that name), but he does not know how to adjust. We could do a lot better for DC.

Furthermore the title of this thread is somewhat hypothetical because I don't think Andy will fire his friend Sutton. That said, who would you want as the Chiefs next DC is by some miracle Sutton was dumped?... And why?

- Wade Phillips?
- Ray Horton?
- Any of the recently fired HCs?

Well, if it comes to that...My pick of the bunch would be Wade Phillips.

Don't think Sutton will get the axe, provided that Andy Reid sticks with the 3-4.

[Frankenchief]

Well, if it comes to that...My pick of the bunch would be Wade Phillips.

Don't think Sutton will get the axe, provided that Andy Reid sticks with the 3-4.
I agree. I really like Horton too, but he is young and in the NFL HC pool every year. Phillips has had his HC experience. I think he's now going to be a DC for life. That gives us more coaching staff stability.

Any other candidates?

[Frankenchief]

BTW, Gunther Cunningham is now available too!

;)

:D

[Pro_Angler]

Time wont change if you know how to make adjustments or not or game plan!!!!!! Those things are why you are hired!!!!!!!!!

[chiefnut]

i just don't understand a defense w/ a pro bowl corner an safety could have every receiver wide open on every play coupled w/2 of the leagues best pass rushers and possibly the leagues best nose tackle and a pro bowl linbacker can blow a 28pt lead in the 2nd half. thats worse than getting beat by 56pts. this is the worst loss in the 50 years i have watched and rooted for this team. i don't think i can take any more. as of right now i am packing all my CHIEFS stuff up and putting it up the attic.

[Lewis_Chiefs]

I want him gone, it's one thing giving up big plays and points but it's another when you keep running the same schemes with no adjustments, he has not made nearly enough adjustments all year and another thing that's been bugging me, why not have berry ball hawking ? That is where he is at his best, surely someone else could go up in the box when needed. Putting a Berry on Fleener was suicide.

[Frankenchief]

Putting Berry on Fleener was suicide.This. If Berry has and Achilles heel it's dealing with good TEs.

[jap1]

This. If Berry has and Achilles heel it's dealing with good TEs.
I thnk Berry has only allowed one or two TDs all season when covering a TD. During one of the games they were talking about how well he has shut down other teams TEs when he is in man coverage.

[Frankenchief]

I thnk Berry has only allowed one or two TDs all season when covering a TD. During one of the games they were talking about how well he has shut down other teams TEs when he is in man coverage.
There are games he gets somewhat overwhelmed by TEs. Two most vivid ones in my mind are yesterday's game and at least one of the SD games last year against Antonio Gates.

Look, I didn't say he was bad at it. I said it's not among his best qualities.

[jason1981]

Berry improved drastically from last year covering te. Lewis needs to be gone. Lewis should have never even turned and ran the other way. He should have just helped with hilton and forget about the other wr and take our chances with cooper covering him. Everyone should have known luck was going to hilton either way.

[Justin5772002]

Couldn't bring myself to come on hear after Saturdays loss. What a kick in the balls that was. A great coach can win no matter what players he has. Going to that zone, prevent in the second half killed us. Isn't the whole idea of a prevent to give up little yards here and there but never the big play? WTF? Someone needs to coach these chiefs how to do that! We can't even hold a 28 point lead is saddening.

[matthewschiefs]

I said after the game I'll say it again I can't put this on Sutton. This is a habit of this defense they have done this to often before Sutton was in KC for me to put this on him.

2012 in 7 games they gave up more then 30 points. That's just about half the season. Yes you can point to turnovers for a good chunk of those points. But that's still a ton of points that didn't come off turnovers. The excuse was made that they were gased but the Chiefs averaged more time on the field with the ball then their opponents.

2011 5 more games allowing over 30 points including to a Miami team that was 0-7 coming into Arrowhead. Yes they lost Eric Berry
but as we have seen Berry hasn't made a huge impact on that when he has been in there.

Folks this defense just isn't as good as we thought it was. To me it's that simple. Without a lot of changes in the player area getting anther DC won't change all that much.

[TopekaRoy]

... A great coach can win no matter what players he has. ...
No, he can't.

[brdempsey69]

No, he can't.

We saw evidence of that last Saturday. When you lose players like Charles, Avery, Flowers, Davis and don't have Hali or Houston 100%, it hurts you and it hurt the Chiefs last Saturday, most certainly.

[Seek]

Suttons problem is that he keeps believing his players are good enough to cover a receiver that a bad Qb is throwing to. At the start of the year we were looking at Cooper as a steal. He soon became a liability yet he kept leaving him out there on an island. They ended up Benching him and put Dunta Robinson in there until they remembered why Cooper was playing in the first place. At no point did I ever see this team this year play anything but Man to Man.

[Frankenchief]

A great coach can win no matter what players he has. Going to that zone, prevent in the second half killed us. Isn't the whole idea of a prevent to give up little yards here and there but never the big play? WTF? Someone needs to coach these chiefs how to do that! We can't even hold a 28 point lead is saddening.I totally disagree with the bolded part. I agree with the rest.

[IowaChief]

Suttons problem is that he keeps believing his players are good enough to cover a receiver that a bad Qb is throwing to. At the start of the year we were looking at Cooper as a steal. He soon became a liability yet he kept leaving him out there on an island. They ended up Benching him and put Dunta Robinson in there until they remembered why Cooper was playing in the first place. At no point did I ever see this team this year play anything but Man to Man.

All man to man... Your crazy. When you blitz you have to play cover 1 or man, howevr, rewatch the long pass to Hilton that gave them the lead, straight up Cover 2. No reason a single reciever gets over the top on two safeties. Right call that time of the game, very poor execution by two deep halves in cover 2.

[tornadospotter]

I believe the defense went from attack to preserve, and that was a big mistake.

[Chiefster]

I believe the defense went from attack to preserve, and that was a big mistake.


Yup! "Prevent" most always prevents you from winning the game.

[kcvet]

I believe the defense went from attack to preserve, and that was a big mistake.

yeah with a 28 pt lead you don't go in the prevent. it was disgusting to watch

[Chiefster]

yeah with a 28 pt lead you don't go in the prevent. it was disgusting to watch

Well you can if you have that big a lead with less than five minutes to go in the game, but I've never been a big fan of the "prevent".

[brdempsey69]

Bottom line is that Bob Sutton has got to learn to make adjustments and do a better job of that. If he can't do that in 2014, then it's time to look for a new DC.

[MissingTBone]

Bottom line is that Bob Sutton has got to learn to make adjustments and do a better job of that. If he can't do that in 2014, then it's time to look for a new DC.

exactly how I feel. Gotta give him a second year with some better players to work with. I'm not a fan of firing coaches or coordinators after 1 year. It's pretty hard to get players that run your scheme well in one year. Would like to see adjustments made as games progress. Not sure how much was poor planning an how much was poor play, but def need some change next year. Was happy to see the offense open up and feel good about it moving forward, especially if we can get some better wr, and add some depth at ol when Albert leaves. The future appears bright for us!!

[Eydugstr]

Yup! "Prevent" most always prevents you from winning the game.

Spot on. And if you go that route, count on the Andrew Lucks, Peyton Mannings & Tom Bradys of the NFL to rip you apart every time.

[Chiefster]

Spot on. And if you go that route, count on the Andrew Lucks, Peyton Mannings & Tom Bradys of the NFL to rip you apart every time.


Quoted for truth!

[Frankenchief]

exactly how I feel. Gotta give him a second year with some better players to work with. I'm not a fan of firing coaches or coordinators after 1 year. Me neither. Normally. But I'm a fan of accepting and correcting a mistake ASAP. If Sutton is evaluated to be a mis-hire then he needs to go and we need to pursue someone like Wade Phillips before he is snatched up by another team. Reid and Dorsey can't afford to do that evaluation from an emotional stand point.

[Frankenchief]

The future appears bright for us!!Depends on how the cap is managed by Dorsey this year. Our schedule is tougher next year and we better field a more talented team next year. Or at least record-wise we will regress.

[matthewschiefs]

I saw a replay of the Colts game winning TD had not seen one since it was to painful to watch but they showed it on the Dan Patrick show this morning. Look at that play and I think it backs up what I say about the players being the problem far more then Sutton. There were 2 guys on Hilton on that play. Neither one made the play. A DC can't make the play for 2 guys who are on a WR. This defense needs MAJOR upgrades on the player side before I can be down on Sutton.

[Frankenchief]

I saw a replay of the Colts game winning TD had not seen one since it was to painful to watch but they showed it on the Dan Patrick show this morning. Look at that play and I think it backs up what I say about the players being the problem far more then Sutton. There were 2 guys on Hilton on that play. Neither one made the play. A DC can't make the play for 2 guys who are on a WR. This defense needs MAJOR upgrades on the player side before I can be down on Sutton.
Or does a good coach bring out the best in players? In other words, do players believe in him and play hard for him? Back to when Cowher was our DC Our players played real hard for him even before the D roster got loaded with talent.

Look, you may very well be right, but I, as a long suffering Chiefs fan, would feel a hell of a lot better with a stronger coaching staff, i.e. a DC with a better resume.

[matthewschiefs]

Or does a good coach bring out the best in players? In other words, do players believe in him and play hard for him? Back to when Cowher was our DC Our players played real hard for him even before the D roster got loaded with talent.

Look, you may very well be right, but I, as a long suffering Chiefs fan, would feel a hell of a lot better with a stronger coaching staff, i.e. a DC with a better resume.

The coaching point is not lost on me. I'm a HUGE believer that coaching can make a huge difference. Just look at this season.

But there comes a time when you have to point at the players. This core group on defense has had this history as I have said. Just look at all the games that they have FOLDED before Sutton was the DC. 7 last year more then 30 points 5 the year before. It's just hard for me to put that on the DC year 1 when it's been something this defense has done far to often. It's somthing Sutton is going to either have to figure out with these guys or we just need to make a large number of moves. Either way to me at the end of the day on the game deciding play there were 2 guys who COULD HAVE made a play. Neither did. That's on them.

[Frankenchief]

The coaching point is not lost on me. I'm a HUGE believer that coaching can make a huge difference. Just look at this season.

But there comes a time when you have to point at the players. This core group on defense has had this history as I have said. Just look at all the games that they have FOLDED before Sutton was the DC. 7 last year more then 30 points 5 the year before. It's just hard for me to put that on the DC year 1 when it's been something this defense has done far to often. It's somthing Sutton is going to either have to figure out with these guys or we just need to make a large number of moves. Either way to me at the end of the day on the game deciding play there were 2 guys who COULD HAVE made a play. Neither did. That's on them.I hear you. I guess we can agree that we cannot dismiss one problem in favor of the other.

[matthewschiefs]

I hear you. I guess we can agree that we cannot dismiss one problem in favor of the other.

True I don't mean to say that Sutton is without blame. But I just think that expecting him to fix every problem of a defense on a 2 win team in one year is a bit to much. He needs to do a better job no doubt. And the players on this defense need to stop being so damn soft in big games and just once man up and get the job done. It's kind of like last year when people were talking about the need for a QB. I said a QB without a new head coach wouldn't make a difference. Well a new DC with this group playing so damn soft in big games won't make much of a difference either. I put a little more on these players for the defensive break down we saw then Sutton

[Justin5772002]

We've been a 1st half team all year then in the last 2 minutes they fight like hell also. But 3rd quarter we completely fall apart. Even in a prevent defense we cannot prevent anybody. Winded? Right out of the half they shouldn't be winded or tired. Our guys are great the first half usually. I think coaching needs to be addressed being how we can spank a team so badly in the first half then let them murder us in the second half.