Are the 2014 Chiefs better?

[Mongo]

The free agent offerings have been picked over. There's very little left. Maybe KC could get Sid Rice on a one-year prove it deal.

There's the draft, of course. The draft may add an immediate contributor, but you shouldn't count on it. It unrealistic to expect immediate help coming at one or more positions. Eric Fisher did very little last year.

This team has holes or question marks at LE, LILB, FS, LG, RG, LT, RT and WR2. They've either filled in the gaps with lesser talent (Joe Mays, Vance Walker) or are relying on unproven talent like Eric Fisher, Donald Stephenson, Rishaw Johnson, Sanders Commings and A.J. Jenkins.

Yes, the cap is an issue. But what has John Dorsey done to address it? Why wasn't Eric Berry signed long term, creating cap space? Why are under-performing and overpaid 2013 FA busts Anthony Fasano and Donnie Avery still here?

As it stands now, this team looks significantly worse than last year's team.

John Dorsey, what have you done for me lately? What have you done at all?

[doobs_05]

as of right now, no

Chiefs are in a "rebuild" mode right now. I bet they're really pushing for next years draft to come away with something.

[matthewschiefs]

Right now it's incomplete and that's the only thing you can say. As you said we still have the draft.

Other things to consider is there will be some growth at least on offense in Reid's system. They have a year under their belts now and as we saw the offense got a lot better at the end of the year. Including in the playoffs even losing Charles very early in the game. They won't be adjusting to Reid's offense at the start of the year this year. Fisher won't be a rookie and like the offense he got better as the season went on. Now I have been vocal that I don't love that they are changing his position yet again but he knows how to play LT so it might not be a big deal. But there will be some growth from the players now knowing and understanding what they are going to be asked to do.

As for the Berry thing it's one of those things easier said then done. Dorsey can't just say that hey I want to sign Berry to a long term deal and that's it. Berry to has to agree to that deal. Those things take time. It's something that is being worked on. The cap issue is overblown. This is going to be what we see from this team. Dorsey is one of the mindset that you don't spend a ton in the free agent market and build through the draft. You are going to have to go find anther team if you want all stars brought in for the most part. And as I have said that has a better history in the league then what Denver's doing. Even when there was the uncapped year and a number of teams loaded up the super bowl was Green Bay and Pittsburgh two teams who build through the draft and don't often bring in a lot of free agents. What is going to determine if Dorsey is a success or failure as a GM is if he drafts well. The free agent market just isn't going to do much to get us excited.

[Seek]

Seriously!!!! What has John Dorsey done for you lately or at all How about in one year took a 2-14 team to the play offs raising your standards by turning the roster over and over with affordable guys to counter the crappy expensive guys Pioli left him to clean up. He raised your standards for this team to the point you are expecting magic with the salary cap to sign players to cause more issues next year after the Donkies have to blow things up.

I don't know if the Chiefs are any better as they aren't done yet, and have yet to practice or play. Amazing things happen in off season. Some times players get better, sometimes stars lose a step and completely fall off the radar. Highly Ranked Teams on paper fail to perform on the field. Teams rise up from the toilet bowl and exceed expectations. Look at how much Poe improved from last year. Look at how much K. Lewis declined in one year. Who knows what we have in some of these players.

I just don't get what good does for you or to other fans to Claim doom and gloom before anything has taken place other than to be satisfied of the teams failure should it happen? I have concerns that is for sure, but what if Fisher becomes the LT some people think he could be.

Remember he still has Alex Smith and Justin Houston to worry about. He will need cap space next year and the best way to do that is keep Salaries on the books as long as he can instead of deferring out to later years with restructured contract for Berry. You are just deferring money owed to him until there is a time when you will need it more but doing so, give that player more money. If there was a guy Dorsey Felt was a cant miss then he can fall back to restructures, which is why you heard rumors of Berry saying he was working a restructure prior to the new about the Chiefs saying No to D. Jackson. The numbers just didn't make sense.

So be careful for what you ask. The time is coming that the Chiefs will release a key player or two as a cap casualty, such as Tamba or Brandon Flowers. You are basically demanding that from Dorsey now to fill other holes. He is filling holes with effective low bargain players. Quentin Demps, G. Schwartz, Mike Devito, FranK Zombo are guys who filled this role very well last year. He has signed some good players like Vance Walker and Joe Hays. Sorry they are not the over paid #1 guys, but very capable starters.

[TopekaRoy]

I agree with Matthewschiefs and Seek. It is still way too early to tell. We still have the draft, there are some decent players left in FA and the longer they go unsigned, the cheaper we can get them. We don't know if players that were on IR for most or all of last year will make the team better or worse (my hunch is better) and you are not taking into account that last year's rookies should improve, and we won't be learning a brand new offense and defense like we did last year.

The only reason you would ask this question at this time is because you don't trust what Dorsey and Reid (who took us from 2-14 to 11-5) are doing. If the Chiefs struggle this year you can say, "see? I told you so. What did you expect?" And if the Chiefs do well, you will be pleasantly "surprised." It's a mind game that you are playing with yourself, lowering expectations to protect yourself from the pain of disappointment.

Whatever will be, will be. Just take it as it comes, enjoy the highs and don't take the lows too seriously. It's just entertainment, after all. I don't know why anyone would want to expect the worst before the team ever sets foot on the field. That takes all of the fun out of it.

[Mongo]

Right now it's incomplete and that's the only thing you can say. As you said we still have the draft.


Untrue. The only thing left are the scraps. The opportunity to improve this team has come and gone, save the draft. As I said, I don’t expect anything immediate to come from it, no matter who the GM is. The draft is for building long term.


As for the Berry thing it's one of those things easier said then done. Dorsey can't just say that hey I want to sign Berry to a long term deal and that's it. Berry to has to agree to that deal. Those things take time. It's something that is being worked on.

I know there are two sides to this. In the real world, there are deadlines for accomplishing things. Dorsey had all of last season until FA began to extend Eric Berry’s contract to create cap space. Unless, of course, Dorsey’s really not interested. Then KC fans have a bigger problem. The man would be a fool.


The cap issue is overblown. This is going to be what we see from this team. Dorsey is one of the mindset that you don't spend a ton in the free agent market and build through the draft. You are going to have to go find anther team if you want all stars brought in for the most part. And as I have said that has a better history in the league then what Denver's doing. Even when there was the uncapped year and a number of teams loaded up the super bowl was Green Bay and Pittsburgh two teams who build through the draft and don't often bring in a lot of free agents. What is going to determine if Dorsey is a success or failure as a GM is if he drafts well. The free agent market just isn't going to do much to get us excited.

I’m not talking about going “all Daniel Snyder” over FA. A key addition or two would be nice to minimize the losses. The Chiefs have lost far more than they’ve gained this offseason and that’s a problem because the replacements are either unknown or worse.

[matthewschiefs]

Untrue. The only thing left are the scraps. The opportunity to improve this team has come and gone, save the draft. As I said, I don’t expect anything immediate to come from it, no matter who the GM is. The draft is for building long term.



I know there are two sides to this. In the real world, there are deadlines for accomplishing things. Dorsey had all of last season until FA began to extend Eric Berry’s contract to create cap space. Unless, of course, Dorsey’s really not interested. Then KC fans have a bigger problem. The man would be a fool.



I’m not talking about going “all Daniel Snyder” over FA. A key addition or two would be nice to minimize the losses. The Chiefs have lost far more than they’ve gained this offseason and that’s a problem because the replacements are either unknown or worse.

What exactly did this team lose?

A lt (the best player they lost) who wasn't on the field for a good part of the season anyway because he got hurt often. And it's not like he was playing lights out anyway.

then there is Tyson Jackson who most fans wanted ran out of town anyway but now he's a loss?

This team didn't lose all that much. They are mostly intact. And the players they drafted last year should get a bit better. I for one am excited to see Marcus Cooper. Yes he struggled at the end of the year but he showed some flashes of being a damn good player I'm excited to see if he can grow into a good player.

There is reason to be excited about this team if they get some of the help they need in the draft they should be a good team that only has a upside. That begins with drafting well. Bashing Dorsey is just INSANE right now.

[jap1]

You say you want him to cut Fasano and Avery to make cap space. Have you looked at their contracts? Fasano's cap hit is more than he makes being on the team. Avery's cap hit will only save us 150,000.

Restructuring contracts just just pushes them off until next year. Right now we are not set up to do amazingly cap space in 2015, so restructuring is going to screw us.

we don't have cap room for a big splashy name in FA. Not even one. I would have loved a DJax signing, but not one that would cripple us for the future. We kicked the tires, I'm satisfied with that. We tried for Emmanuel Sanders, and that fell through. We have about 3mil that we can spend before the draft. You will probably see one or two more backup/depth signings, but Dorsey would be foolish to do anything else.

Maybe Dorsey knows what he is doing.

[Mongo]

Seriously!!!! What has John Dorsey done for you lately or at all How about in one year took a 2-14 team to the play offs raising your standards by turning the roster over and over with affordable guys to counter the crappy expensive guys Pioli left him to clean up. He raised your standards for this team to the point you are expecting magic with the salary cap to sign players to cause more issues next year after the Donkies have to blow things up.

He didn’t raise my standards that high. Last year’s team was an aberration caused mostly by a weak schedule. Seems either your memory or mine is jaded but what “expensive, crappy Pioli guy” either than Matt Cassel did Dorsey jettison? Am I missing someone?

It’s a shame that many have to justify what the Chiefs are currently doing by referring to the “inevitable” fall of the Broncos. The Broncos are defending AFC champions. That justifies anything they are currently doing. As for the future, not that it matters, but the contracts given by DEN do not cause them future cap distress. Seems Elway’s pretty good at what he does.

I’d like the Chiefs to beat DEN on the field, not by attrition. The team is moving backwards.



I don't know if the Chiefs are any better as they aren't done yet, and have yet to practice or play. Amazing things happen in off season. Some times players get better, sometimes stars lose a step and completely fall off the radar. Highly Ranked Teams on paper fail to perform on the field. Teams rise up from the toilet bowl and exceed expectations. Look at how much Poe improved from last year. Look at how much K. Lewis declined in one year. Who knows what we have in some of these players.

I just don't get what good does for you or to other fans to Claim doom and gloom before anything has taken place other than to be satisfied of the teams failure should it happen? I have concerns that is for sure, but what if Fisher becomes the LT some people think he could be.

Things have taken place. The 2014 season began March 11 and the Chiefs are worse off than they were last year. This upcoming season doesn’t offer the cupcakes last year did. The NFCW is going nowhere whereas the NFCE fell apart.

Yes “miracles” happen every year in the NFL. Just getting tired of wishing for them instead of the Chiefs being their own miracle.




Remember he still has Alex Smith and Justin Houston to worry about. He will need cap space next year and the best way to do that is keep Salaries on the books as long as he can instead of deferring out to later years with restructured contract for Berry. You are just deferring money owed to him until there is a time when you will need it more but doing so, give that player more money. If there was a guy Dorsey Felt was a cant miss then he can fall back to restructures, which is why you heard rumors of Berry saying he was working a restructure prior to the new about the Chiefs saying No to D. Jackson. The numbers just didn't make sense.

So be careful for what you ask. The time is coming that the Chiefs will release a key player or two as a cap casualty, such as Tamba or Brandon Flowers. You are basically demanding that from Dorsey now to fill other holes. He is filling holes with effective low bargain players. Quentin Demps, G. Schwartz, Mike Devito, FranK Zombo are guys who filled this role very well last year. He has signed some good players like Vance Walker and Joe Hays. Sorry they are not the over paid #1 guys, but very capable starters.
Devito is a good player. Schwartz turned out to be too. Zombo is ok. Walker is mediocre at best. Mays is below average. I wouldn’t call either a “capable starter”. More like “effective backup”

Extending Eric Berry and restructuring his deal are two different things. You see, other draft-centric teams do resign their own players. Guess what? The deals are almost always backloaded to provide immediate cap space.

You sign Berry for 4-6 years now. You guarantee three years of it. Give him a $10M bonus stretched over four years. His first year salary is the minimum. In year four or five you have a large salary than can be renegotiated then.

Year one Berry receives $10.73M, but his cap hit is only $3.23M. Eight million in cap savings. Years 2-4 offer modest, escalating salaries plus 2.5M added to their cap hit. Year five you redo the whole thing all over again. Who cares then?

All teams do that type of deal, not just Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder. The cap rises every year. You budget against it. Cap problems come with success. The success softens the blow.

I like Berry. I want him in KC a long time. Sign him now so you don’t have to worry about both he and Houston next year. You might need to franchise Houston. Personally, I’d wait for Alex Smith, but I’m not as impressed as others are.

In conclusion, the thing is this: You, yourself, called the Chiefs a playoff team. If you are aren’t moving forward in the NFL, you’re going backwards.

[Seek]

He didn’t raise my standards that high. Last year’s team was an aberration caused mostly by a weak schedule. Seems either your memory or mine is jaded but what “expensive, crappy Pioli guy” either than Matt Cassel did Dorsey jettison? Am I missing someone?

It’s a shame that many have to justify what the Chiefs are currently doing by referring to the “inevitable” fall of the Broncos. The Broncos are defending AFC champions. That justifies anything they are currently doing. As for the future, not that it matters, but the contracts given by DEN do not cause them future cap distress. Seems Elway’s pretty good at what he does.

I’d like the Chiefs to beat DEN on the field, not by attrition. The team is moving backwards.


Things have taken place. The 2014 season began March 11 and the Chiefs are worse off than they were last year. This upcoming season doesn’t offer the cupcakes last year did. The NFCW is going nowhere whereas the NFCE fell apart.

Yes “miracles” happen every year in the NFL. Just getting tired of wishing for them instead of the Chiefs being their own miracle.



Devito is a good player. Schwartz turned out to be too. Zombo is ok. Walker is mediocre at best. Mays is below average. I wouldn’t call either a “capable starter”. More like “effective backup”

Extending Eric Berry and restructuring his deal are two different things. You see, other draft-centric teams do resign their own players. Guess what? The deals are almost always backloaded to provide immediate cap space.

You sign Berry for 4-6 years now. You guarantee three years of it. Give him a $10M bonus stretched over four years. His first year salary is the minimum. In year four or five you have a large salary than can be renegotiated then.

Year one Berry receives $10.73M, but his cap hit is only $3.23M. Eight million in cap savings. Years 2-4 offer modest, escalating salaries plus 2.5M added to their cap hit. Year five you redo the whole thing all over again. Who cares then?

All teams do that type of deal, not just Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder. The cap rises every year. You budget against it. Cap problems come with success. The success softens the blow.

I like Berry. I want him in KC a long time. Sign him now so you don’t have to worry about both he and Houston next year. You might need to franchise Houston. Personally, I’d wait for Alex Smith, but I’m not as impressed as others are.

In conclusion, the thing is this: You, yourself, called the Chiefs a playoff team. If you are aren’t moving forward in the NFL, you’re going backwards.

You are blinded by your own biased opinion that teams are won through over paying in free agency. Did you know that Walker is considered a top 40 d Lineman in the NFL. He is not a top Pass Rusher but a very sold run stuffer. He is an upgrade over T. Jackson and Devito, yet your so upset that he wasn't the best player in FA that you are calling him mediocre.

I can't tell you how many games Joe Hayes had me upset with him as a Donkie. The guy loves to hit and hit people hard and I was so mad at how hard he hit our players. We don't need a replacement for DJ. We needed a replacement for Jordan, which Hayes is. Even if he loses the starting role our second year player Johnson he provides great depth and blows people up on special teams.

Husain Abdulah was resigned. I may be wrong but didn't he get just as many reps as K. Lewis and picked off a pass in the play off game and couple more later in the season as he got more playing time. There is no step back at safety right there other than depth.

So as far as the regression that I see from last year, is the fact we play a tougher schedule, we lack interior oline depth, we lack FS depth and would like an upgrade at WR. I don't see us as bad as you feel. I do have concerns but there are still quality out there. I am also a little more optomistic with our receivers specially after J. Charles got hurt against Indy. Some people were asked to step up and they did. Jenkins may finally get his head on straight. If not, there is some cap room for next year.

[Mongo]

You say you want him to cut Fasano and Avery to make cap space. Have you looked at their contracts? Fasano's cap hit is more than he makes being on the team. Avery's cap hit will only save us 150,000.

Restructuring contracts just just pushes them off until next year. Right now we are not set up to do amazingly cap space in 2015, so restructuring is going to screw us.

we don't have cap room for a big splashy name in FA. Not even one. I would have loved a DJax signing, but not one that would cripple us for the future. We kicked the tires, I'm satisfied with that. We tried for Emmanuel Sanders, and that fell through. We have about 3mil that we can spend before the draft. You will probably see one or two more backup/depth signings, but Dorsey would be foolish to do anything else.

Maybe Dorsey knows what he is doing.

Isn’t the cap +/- determined by the cap hit minus the dead money? If so, cutting both saves $1.76 if done before roster & workout bonuses are paid.

Regardless, those two aren’t the bigger item.

I’d rather have kept Schwartz and skipped all of the garbage signings like Mays, Walker and Linkenbach. I’d rather pay UFA’s the league minimum, if that’s the route we’re going – just getting bodies to fill a roster.

Sign Berry long term and you could have had $8M in cap space. One simple, no brainer move could have helped solve a lot more problems. There are ways to create cap space. Dorsey did nothing except cut TJ, which was a no brainer. I was hoping to see some creativity.

Maybe Dorsey knows what he is doing. Then again, maybe he doesn’t.

[Eydugstr]

The free agent offerings have been picked over. There's very little left. Maybe KC could get Sid Rice on a one-year prove it deal.

There's the draft, of course. The draft may add an immediate contributor, but you shouldn't count on it. It unrealistic to expect immediate help coming at one or more positions. Eric Fisher did very little last year.

This team has holes or question marks at LE, LILB, FS, LG, RG, LT, RT and WR2. They've either filled in the gaps with lesser talent (Joe Mays, Vance Walker) or are relying on unproven talent like Eric Fisher, Donald Stephenson, Rishaw Johnson, Sanders Commings and A.J. Jenkins.

Yes, the cap is an issue. But what has John Dorsey done to address it? Why wasn't Eric Berry signed long term, creating cap space? Why are under-performing and overpaid 2013 FA busts Anthony Fasano and Donnie Avery still here?

As it stands now, this team looks significantly worse than last year's team.

John Dorsey, what have you done for me lately? What have you done at all?

First off, Dorsey doesn't owe you, me or anybody else SQUAT. He helped take a 2-14 team and make it a 11-5 team. After what we went through in '12, I'll take 11-5 every time.

Stephenson is not "unproven" talent. The guy's gotten better every year. Fisher had to be the grown up willing to play RT when Albert whined, and towards the end of the year began to show improvement. This year he'll be at his natural position of LT, with a year's experience under his belt. Jenkins could very well challenge Avery for the role of speedy WR. We don't know much of anything about Commings until he's given the chance.

IMO the Vance Walker move was pretty smart. We chipped away at a competitor's strong point (Raider's D line) and upgraded our D line in one move. Is Vance Walker going to make people forget Bruce Smith? Probably not. Is anyone in KC going to remember TJ's stellar play? Probably not.

Fasano and Avery are still here for the same reason Bowe is; Reid is patient with players. I'm amazed that both Avery and Bowe survived being cut, given the drops. Fasano needs to stay on the field. Kelce needs to get ON the field. Again, with a draft class that's deep with good WR's, that could change in a month or so. This entire argument will get played out all over again.

[Mongo]

You are blinded by your own biased opinion that teams are won through over paying in free agency. Did you know that Walker is considered a top 40 d Lineman in the NFL. He is not a top Pass Rusher but a very sold run stuffer. He is an upgrade over T. Jackson and Devito, yet your so upset that he wasn't the best player in FA that you are calling him mediocre.

I can't tell you how many games Joe Hayes had me upset with him as a Donkie. The guy loves to hit and hit people hard and I was so mad at how hard he hit our players. We don't need a replacement for DJ. We needed a replacement for Jordan, which Hayes is. Even if he loses the starting role our second year player Johnson he provides great depth and blows people up on special teams.

Husain Abdulah was resigned. I may be wrong but didn't he get just as many reps as K. Lewis and picked off a pass in the play off game and couple more later in the season as he got more playing time. There is no step back at safety right there other than depth.

So as far as the regression that I see from last year, is the fact we play a tougher schedule, we lack interior oline depth, we lack FS depth and would like an upgrade at WR. I don't see us as bad as you feel. I do have concerns but there are still quality out there. I am also a little more optomistic with our receivers specially after J. Charles got hurt against Indy. Some people were asked to step up and they did. Jenkins may finally get his head on straight. If not, there is some cap room for next year.
I don’t believe teams are bought through free agency. I see this team being decimated by it though.

Who considers Vancy a top 40 DL? By what criteria is Walker a better run defender than either TJ or Devito? Please cite your sources. PFF grades him lower than either, particularly as a run defender. Devito grades superbly versus the run (19.1 OVR, 23 RUN). TJ (14.6 OVR, 15.5 RUN). Vancy scored 4.0 OVR and -.6 versus the run.

Don’t like stats? Name one great defense Walker was a key part of. You can’t. He’s average.

Husain Abdullah outplayed Kendrick Lewis, one of the worst safeties in the league. That’s your saving grace at safety? HA did not play even close to the number of snaps KLew logged (240 to 1072). Why? Because the coaches thought Lewis was better. They let him go and kept his backup.

Joe Mays has been all over the league in a short time. DEN cut him in favor of moving their weakside LB to take over. A guy who is no longer on their team even though they had all of the cap room in the world.

Joe Mays is a backup.

I would love to be optimistic about where this team is headed in 2014. I don’t see any reason to be.

[matthewschiefs]

Decimated?

By losing a LT that was hurt often and not on the field anyway

A guy who everyone before declared a total bust and Devito was was good not great?

That's decimated? WOW ok

As for the schedule thing. If Dorsey did nothing then why were they able to beat some of the teams in 2013 that handed it to them in 2012?

Dorsey has been here 1 season In that season the Chiefs went to the playoffs after a 2 win year the season before . We haven't even reached training camp of season 2 and you're already :sign0053: about him? Take a chill pill. If dorsey hits in the draft the Chiefs will be just fine. But you have to give him that chance first. And this is what you're going to see out of Dorsey. BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT IS PROVEN TO WORK if you draft well.

[Mongo]

First off, Dorsey doesn't owe you, me or anybody else SQUAT. He helped take a 2-14 team and make it a 11-5 team. After what we went through in '12, I'll take 11-5 every time.

Stephenson is not "unproven" talent. The guy's gotten better every year. Fisher had to be the grown up willing to play RT when Albert whined, and towards the end of the year began to show improvement. This year he'll be at his natural position of LT, with a year's experience under his belt. Jenkins could very well challenge Avery for the role of speedy WR. We don't know much of anything about Commings until he's given the chance.

IMO the Vance Walker move was pretty smart. We chipped away at a competitor's strong point (Raider's D line) and upgraded our D line in one move. Is Vance Walker going to make people forget Bruce Smith? Probably not. Is anyone in KC going to remember TJ's stellar play? Probably not.

Fasano and Avery are still here for the same reason Bowe is; Reid is patient with players. I'm amazed that both Avery and Bowe survived being cut, given the drops. Fasano needs to stay on the field. Kelce needs to get ON the field. Again, with a draft class that's deep with good WR's, that could change in a month or so. This entire argument will get played out all over again.
Stephenson improved from below average to mediocre last year. "Improvement" doesn't make him good. He hasn't proven anything yet.

So KC decides to improve their team by attacking one of the worst team in the league's strong suit? Great. You do realize the Raiders had all of the cap room in the world and let him walk? They resigned Pat Sims. They added 31 year old Antonio Smith and are giddy over late round pick Stacy McGee.

I doubt the Raiders will lose any sleep over Vance Walker.

[matthewschiefs]

Yes because Oakland's well known for making great football choices

[TopekaRoy]

Mongo, I think you are making a lot of assumptions that we just don't know about yet. how would you have answered this question a year ago at this time? Most were saying we were better if only because we replaced Cassel with Smith and replaced Romeo with Andy. We HAD to be better. We went 2-14 the year before. But did you see us winning 11 games?

Last years schedule was supposed to be tough, too. The NFC East were all supposed to be good. Houston was a super bowl candidate. We "never win" in Florida (Jacksonville). Buffalo "has got our number." People had us losing to the Titans and even the Browns were supposed to be much improved. Guess what? We won all 8 of those games. In fact, outside of Denver and San Diego, the Chiefs went 11-1! Who would have predicted THAT? Oh, and our starters didn't even play in one of the San Diego games.

I pulled up the prediction thread from last year (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php/23178-Reuglar-Season-prediction?highlight=prediction). keep in mind that this was AFTER the draft and we had already played all of our preseason games. Here are some quotes:

"The most i could see is 10 wins, the least i could see is 5."

"7-9"

"as low as 6-10."

"Worst case 6 wins."

"4 wins."

"I predict a 8 and 8. However, I see us getting better in the second half of the season."

"Worst case we go 5-11."

I picked us to go 11-5, BTW. :yahoo:

You can never tell how the season is going to go, especially this early when we don't know how our team or the teams we play will look at the beginning of the season. We will be adding a lot of players between now and training camp. And we will be cutting a lot of players after the preseason.

I don't know how the off season will play out, and so far neither do you. Let's see what happens between now and September and then see where we stand.

[Eydugstr]

Yes because Oakland's well known for making great football choices

LMAO

You go stand by Coach Crennel. Feel the shame.

[Eydugstr]

Stephenson improved from below average to mediocre last year. "Improvement" doesn't make him good. He hasn't proven anything yet.

So KC decides to improve their team by attacking one of the worst team in the league's strong suit? Great. You do realize the Raiders had all of the cap room in the world and let him walk? They resigned Pat Sims. They added 31 year old Antonio Smith and are giddy over late round pick Stacy McGee.

I doubt the Raiders will lose any sleep over Vance Walker.

Okay, so what's your measuring stick for good? Must hold the Lombardi trophy in his rookie season? Numbers of holding calls?

Yes KC decided to attack one of it's opponents via the front office. Go figure. Carl Peterson did a number on the Raiders and Seahawks over the years this way. And no, when it comes to bad decisions, the Raiders don't seem to lose much sleep over it at all. They also don't seem to learn much from them, either.

[Mongo]

Decimated?

By losing a LT that was hurt often and not on the field anyway
The LT that was hurt logged as many snaps as the guy replacing him, Eric Fisher. Stephenson logged even less. Neither played as well, overall.



A guy who everyone before declared a total bust and Devito was was good not great?

That's decimated? WOW ok

Devito is a good player. So was TJ, that is, as a traditional run stuffing 34 DE. He wasn’t worth the $$$ and he certainly didn’t generate pass rush which is what gets you noticed. Vance Walker is not as good. Name one position where the Chiefs have upgraded this offseason.



As for the schedule thing. If Dorsey did nothing then why were they able to beat some of the teams in 2013 that handed it to them in 2012?



The team was 2-12 in 2012 under an idiot as a coach. Improvement was guaranteed by removing Romeo Crennel no matter who the GM, HC or QB was. So yes, we finally beat the Buffalo Bills. Whoopie.



Dorsey has been here 1 season In that season the Chiefs went to the playoffs after a 2 win year the season before . We haven't even reached training camp of season 2 and you're already file:///C:\Users\slloyd\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image001.gif about him? Take a chill pill. If dorsey hits in the draft the Chiefs will be just fine. But you have to give him that chance first. And this is what you're going to see out of Dorsey. BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT IS PROVEN TO WORK if you draft well.

The 2013 team was not built by John Dorsey. None of the core players came though him. Not that I wanted Pioli to stay or Herman Edwards. Dorsey did a nice job filling in last year with Devito, Sean Smith and even Akeem Jordan. That’s it.

You can attribute last year’s success to Andy Reid, if you want. You can give to Al Smith. You can’t give it to John Dorsey. He didn’t even hire Reid, for goodness sake. In truth, all three were in the right place at the right time.

I’ve yet to see Dorsey hit in last year’s draft. I didn’t like the “Eric Fisher/Branden Albert maneuver”. Still don’t. I wanted Star Lotuleilei. I thought two R2 was too much for Al Smith. Still do. Kelce was hurt. And the rest, meh. Hopefully someone steps up in there. Otherwise it doesn’t look much better than Pioli’s drafts.

This year, he’s impeded by the second R2 he overpaid for Al Smith. This, in one of the deepest drafts in years. We’ll see what he can do in this draft for sure. By my accounting we probably need 3 starters minimum (WR2, RG, FS).

[Mongo]

Okay, so what's your measuring stick for good? Must hold the Lombardi trophy in his rookie season? Numbers of holding calls?

Yes KC decided to attack one of it's opponents via the front office. Go figure. Carl Peterson did a number on the Raiders and Seahawks over the years this way. And no, when it comes to bad decisions, the Raiders don't seem to lose much sleep over it at all. They also don't seem to learn much from them, either.
Well, I will refer to PFF for a stat measure. Stephenson loses badly on that.

Then I simply list the players who are better than he is at his position. 32 RT. If a player is better than 7-12 of those players, he is in the B group, i.e. good. Donald Stephenson is not in that group.

Who cares what King Carl did? What did it get us? Besides the Raiders were a different team then. You don't build a championship by raiding teams drafting 5th. You build a team that can beat SEA. Then beating DEN takes care of itself.

Do Joe Mays, Jeff Linkenbach, Husain Abdullah, or Vance Walker help us beat SEA? Do they help us beat DEN? Do they even help us beat OAK?

No. They do not.

[jap1]

Isn’t the cap +/- determined by the cap hit minus the dead money? If so, cutting both saves $1.76 if done before roster & workout bonuses are paid.

Regardless, those two aren’t the bigger item.

I’d rather have kept Schwartz and skipped all of the garbage signings like Mays, Walker and Linkenbach. I’d rather pay UFA’s the league minimum, if that’s the route we’re going – just getting bodies to fill a roster.

Sign Berry long term and you could have had $8M in cap space. One simple, no brainer move could have helped solve a lot more problems. There are ways to create cap space. Dorsey did nothing except cut TJ, which was a no brainer. I was hoping to see some creativity.

Maybe Dorsey knows what he is doing. Then again, maybe he doesn’t.

The dead money not comes into play until you cut or (sometimes) trade someone. It is based on the guaranteed money for the length of the contract signed. Fasano has money guaranteed for the next couple of years that is equal to more than his total salary this year. We would have to pay him that money out of our cap now if we cut him, meaning it costs more to cut him. Avery's salary is almost the same as his guaranteed salary.

Generally it seems like you have a much lower opinion of the players we have / signed than others do.

I read that Walker was not a run stuffer, but was a decent interior pass rusher. Not a stud, but someone, when put next to the double teams that Poe will create, can put pressure on QBs. If you look at him that way, then he makes way more sense as a signing. Who do we play in our division: Rivers and Manning. Both of whom break down under constant pressure. TJax sucked at pass rush. We don't need a run stuffer, we need a pass rusher.

Same thing with Mays. Even though he is slated to be a "starter" he will probably see less playing time than our 3rd CB AND 3rd safety. He is the first one to come out on passing downs. You don't go and sign a stud WILB who plays on first down and short yardage only. Especially when Peyton wants to throw on the goalline anyways. Mays is known for his special teams play. Guess what, we have one of the best special teams coaches and set a record for longest average kick returns last year. You bet your *** they are going to drop a few bucks to keep that going. Mays is the type who can help make that happen.

I agree we should have kept Schwartz. But he was asking more than we could afford at the time.

I would love to extend Berry long term. Maybe they have already been trying to do that and Berry wants more than he should be getting. He has been in the pro-bowl every year except the one he tore his ACL, right? He prob wants to be the highest paid SS in the league. Same with Houston. I guarantee you they are working with Alex to get a long term deal done. The problem is he showed he can drive a high scoring offense at the end of the season, he is going to want to finally get his pay day. Idiots like the Ravens gave Flacco stupid money, so Smith probably wants similar (to me they are probably equivalent talents). If you want to blame Dorsey for not getting these negotiations done sooner, that's fine with me. It's a legit complaint, but just realize negotiations are two sided.

Supposedly, they are willing to spend close to another 5 mil (see Sanders rumors and DJax rumors) which means they expect to free up at least 2 mil in money this year. That means they have probably been working on contract negotiations with guys. Shoot, maybe they are even looking at moving B. flowers and seeing if they can get back into the 2nd round for him. If that happened, not sure how I'd feel.

I don't think we have moved backwards, we are treading water, which to me is impressive since we have an anchor full of gold bricks tied to our ankles.

[TopekaRoy]

I'm trying to think of positions were our (predicted) starters are worse than last year. The only one I can come up with is Schwartz at guard, and maybe TJ at DE. That's it. Albert wasn't starting. We already have the players to replace Dexter's skill set. And losing Lewis probably makes us better regardless of who replaces him. With 6 draft picks and several FAs still available, can we replace a guard and a DE? I think so.

We haven't really gotten better at any positions, but I don't think we've gotten significantly worse. And we are not done yet. We will need to hit on a couple of draft picks. Dorsey was very good at that in Green Bay. I'm willing to give him a chance. Even if we struggle some this year, with the continued progression of our young players and boucoup picks in next years draft we should be poised for success in 2015 and beyond.

We went 11-5 last year, but that doesn't mean we are on the cusp of a Super Bowl. It just means we are WAY ahead of schedule. You don't build a dynasty in one year.

[matthewschiefs]

The LT that was hurt logged as many snaps as the guy replacing him, Eric Fisher. Stephenson logged even less. Neither played as well, overall.

The point is Albert wasn't exactly great. Stephenson held his won in there when he was filling in for Albert when Albert got hurt. BTW the play he got hurt was because he was ABUSED BADLY and hurt his shoulder trying to make up for it. The point is Albert is NOT unreplaceable. Hardly worth saying it was a huge loss.



Devito is a good player. So was TJ, that is, as a traditional run stuffing 34 DE. He wasn’t worth the $$$ and he certainly didn’t generate pass rush which is what gets you noticed. Vance Walker is not as good. Name one position where the Chiefs have upgraded this offseason.

Like with Albert both Jackson and Devito while good are not devestating losses. They are nice players that can be replaced. Hardly worth saying the team is being decimated. Are they good players yeah ok. But decimated is a reach IMO.

As for Walker has he ever played for Andy Reid? I'm big on coaching having a big impact of a team and players. Walker might do better under Reid he might not. I won't whine about it until I see him on the field failing. That's just how I am


The team was 2-12 in 2012 under an idiot as a coach. Improvement was guaranteed by removing Romeo Crennel no matter who the GM, HC or QB was. So yes, we finally beat the Buffalo Bills. Whoopie.



The 2013 team was not built by John Dorsey. None of the core players came though him. Not that I wanted Pioli to stay or Herman Edwards. Dorsey did a nice job filling in last year with Devito, Sean Smith and even Akeem Jordan. That’s it.

You can attribute last year’s success to Andy Reid, if you want. You can give to Al Smith. You can’t give it to John Dorsey. He didn’t even hire Reid, for goodness sake. In truth, all three were in the right place at the right time.

I’ve yet to see Dorsey hit in last year’s draft. I didn’t like the “Eric Fisher/Branden Albert maneuver”. Still don’t. I wanted Star Lotuleilei. I thought two R2 was too much for Al Smith. Still do. Kelce was hurt. And the rest, meh. Hopefully someone steps up in there. Otherwise it doesn’t look much better than Pioli’s drafts.

This year, he’s impeded by the second R2 he overpaid for Al Smith. This, in one of the deepest drafts in years. We’ll see what he can do in this draft for sure. By my accounting we probably need 3 starters minimum (WR2, RG, FS).

Of course Dorsey didn't build last years team. He just got to KC. That's not exactly breaking news. Show me a GM that built a team in one off season?

And there isn't anyone on here that will agree with you more about the horrible coaching in 2012 I was the one on here telling people that it wasn't the QB that was holding this team back in 2012. Not a lot of people liked it but it was clear. Reid is more of a factor then anyone in turning the team around. I will agree but that's not to say Dorsey didn't do his part for a first year gm.

He brought in Alex Smith. He's the one that made the trade happen. If you think he overpaid for him then that's your opinion seeing that Alex helped take a 2 win team to 11 then while losing Charles early in the playoff game put up over 40 points any shred of defense at all and this team would have won there first playoff game in who knows how many years. I happen to think we paid a fair price. And am expecting better out of Alex this season. I'll be very disappointed if I don't see him play at least at the level he left off last year.

As for having yet to see Dorsey hit on a draft pick. Well yeah you have even said it's very rare to see rookies come in and make an impact right away. Don't you think it might be fair to let that class play game 1 in year two before gripping about that class? The Jury of that class just finished with opening arguments they have yet to go into the jury room to reach the verdict.

Like the draft class the jury is not back with Dorsey. Year 2 will be a good step into reaching the verdict on him. But whatever that verdict is this is going to be the type of offseason you are just going to have to get use to as Dorsey is a guy who leans heavily on the draft. The deciding factor on him will be how well he drafts. That's just how he works. I myself like this because it has a much better track record then what Denver is currently doing. On paper I think we have to conceded the division to Denver. But lucky for all of us the games are not played on paper

[brdempsey69]

Stephenson improved from below average to mediocre last year. "Improvement" doesn't make him good. He hasn't proven anything yet.



Oh really? Looked to me like the Offense didn't skip a beat when Stephenson replaced Mr. False Start King Albert at LT. And I watched the games -- multiple times via NFL Game Rewind. What did Albert ever prove to justify him wanting to be paid top-5 LT money? Nothing, except that he should have been playing Guard all along like he did in college.


The LT that was hurt logged as many snaps as the guy replacing him, Eric Fisher. Stephenson logged even less. Neither played as well, overall.


It sounds as though this is based off PFF ratings which are total worthless garbage regarding O-Lineman. They never say anything about the opponents that said players are going up against. The overhead camera trumps any PFF trash. Fisher faced a better series of opponents than Albert did. Albert did not outplay either Stephenson or Fisher. It was about even at best. I know, because I watched them all closely. Not to mention that Albert was never a clutch performer. Go watch the play where Alex get called for intentional grounding in the playoff game thanks mainly to a complete whiff by Mr. Clutch Albert ( sarcasm ) that causes Alex to look from left to right, instead of just being able to just flip the ball to Dex like the play was intended.




Well, I will refer to PFF for a stat measure. Stephenson loses badly on that.

Then I simply list the players who are better than he is at his position. 32 RT. If a player is better than 7-12 of those players, he is in the B group, i.e. good. Donald Stephenson is not in that group.


That right there is part of the problem. PFF ratings regarding O-Lineman are completely worthless. The overhead camera trumps any PFF trash.



I’ve yet to see Dorsey hit in last year’s draft. I didn’t like the “Eric Fisher/Branden Albert maneuver”. Still don’t. I wanted Star Lotuleilei. I thought two R2 was too much for Al Smith. Still do. Kelce was hurt. And the rest, meh. Hopefully someone steps up in there. Otherwise it doesn’t look much better than Pioli’s drafts.


Personally, I loved it. I applaud Dorsey for not caving in Albert's demands. I always thought Albert looked like a Guard playing out of position at LT and as I said before he was never a clutch performer at the position. Let's really tell it like it is -- Albert was everybody's crutch for taking Berry over Russell Okung back in 2010, which is the real reason Albert gets a hall pass from a majority of fans. There's no hindsight in that, either. I had told people prior to that draft if Okung fell to #5 in the 2010 draft, that he should be the pick because passing on him would only delay the inevitable of drafting a LT in round 1 for a short time, and sure enough, Fisher wound up being taken #1 overall in 2013. The O-Line didn't skip a beat when Albert was out last year and Stephenson and Fisher were manning the Tackle spots, in fact it looked like a beat or two was picked up.

As for Star Lotuleilei, I'm glad the Chiefs didn't take him. Tuitt is a better prospect in this years draft and he outproduced Lotuleilei in college and the Chiefs may very well draft him, as there is no Defensive player in this draft that fits the Chiefs Defense better than Tuitt does.




I know there are two sides to this. In the real world, there are deadlines for accomplishing things. Dorsey had all of last season until FA began to extend Eric Berry’s contract to create cap space. Unless, of course, Dorsey’s really not interested. Then KC fans have a bigger problem. The man would be a fool.



Wouldn't break my heart any if Berry's allowed to walk after his rookie contract expires. Way overhyped and overpaid. He's not the best SS in football, as that honor goes to the guy wearing #31 up in Seattle, Cam Chancellor, who's played so well from 2011 to the present that the Hawks brass tore up his rookie contact in 2012 and are paying him somewhere around 6 or 7 mill a year. Alex Smith, Justin Houston, and Dontari Poe are all bigger priorities to get long term deals done with than Berry is.

[TopekaRoy]

Wouldn't break my heart any if Berry's allowed to walk after his rookie contract expires.

This is nothing more than speculation on my part, but I have a feeling that the Chiefs tried to renegotiate/extend Berry's contract. Remember on the day Jackson was released by the Eagles, Berry tweeted that a "big announcement" was coming. I speculated that the Chiefs were going to extend Berry's contract and, at the same time, free up enough additional cap space to sign DeSean.

Well, at the end of the day Berry posted a YouTube video saying his big announcement was that "... um ... [his] football camps are starting soon and you can sign up on [his] website. So chill, Chiefs fans. It's all good."

Here is what I think happened. The Chiefs made Berry an offer and his agent stepped in and told him not to sign it because he can get more in free agency after next season. Players tend to follow their agents advice pretty closely, because if they didn't think is was good advice, they would fire that agent and hire another one. I'm sure the Chiefs want to keep Berry, but they aren't going to overpay him. That's exactly what happened with Brandon Albert.

If my guess is correct, they may very well let Berry walk after next season.

[brdempsey69]

This is nothing more than speculation on my part, but I have a feeling that the Chiefs tried to renegotiate/extend Berry's contract. Remember on the day Jackson was released by the Eagles, Berry tweeted that a "big announcement" was coming. I speculated that the Chiefs were going to extend Berry's contract and, at the same time, free up enough additional cap space to sign DeSean.

Well, at the end of the day Berry posted a YouTube video saying his big announcement was that "... um ... [his] football camps are starting soon and you can sign up on [his] website. So chill, Chiefs fans. It's all good."

Here is what I think happened. The Chiefs made Berry an offer and his agent stepped in and told him not to sign it because he can get more in free agency after next season. Players tend to follow their agents advice pretty closely, because if they didn't think is was good advice, they would fire that agent and hire another one. I'm sure the Chiefs want to keep Berry, but they aren't going to overpay him. That's exactly what happened with Brandon Albert.

If my guess is correct, they may very well let Berry walk after next season.

I believe your speculation is spot on and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Berry is gone after 2015. Dorsey just doesn't smack anybody as the type that's going to pay a Safety the type of money that Berry is making now. I was surprised that he gave Bowe the big contract, but Dorsey may have been over a barrel somewhat on that one, because there weren't an FA WR's to be had in 2013 to replace him & if they'd have let Bowe walk, they'd have had nothing at WR and Bowe was the only established guy they had ( his untimely drops notwithstanding).

I do expect the Chiefs to pick up WR's and DB's in the next two drafts. They'll have their 2nd rounder, plus at least 2, possibly 4, compensatory picks in 2015, so they don't have to overpay Berry or anyone else.

As for 2014, for me it's a wait and see scenario, as the Chiefs are still a work in progress. What's really needed is for the 2013 draft class to stay healthier this year & every one of those guys to step his game up, because if that happens, they could make a huge impact.

[ctchiefsfan]

Mongo........Just what defines "better"?

1) Winning the AFC West?

2) Better record?

3) Winning a playoff game?

4) Having a better overall football team? And how exactly do you define that?

Answers.......

1) I think our chances of winning the AFC West this year are less than 50-50. Hate it, but I think I am being realistic. So in that regard we are not "better" but no worse either. So this is a wash as of now.

2) A better record appears to be unlikely....simply because it appears we have a much tougher schedule than last year. That said, at this time in 2013 our schedule looked much tougher than it turned out to be thanks to the self-immolation of the NFC East. So this is a wash until the season starts.

3) Winning a playoff game.....With how tough the schedule looks RIGHT NOW and with the forehead healthy, it appears we are looking for a Wildcard berth. If we can get that then it's a whole new season. So this is a wash too.

4) Overall better football team? STUPID QUESTION. WAY TOO EARLY TO TELL. Whether we will be an overall better football team depends on Free Agency, the Draft, Coaching and a ton of other things. Yeah....the "BIG NAMES" in Free Agency are gone, but we couldn't afford them anyway. And Reid/Dorsey brought in a LOT of Free Agents all through the year for little or no money that did make meaningful contributions. I think they can do so again.

So the answer to your question is that the question is RIDICULOUS.

One thing is sure......2014 has a lot of similarities to 2011. So that is SCARY!!!! But Pioli and whats-his-dumbash-face are gone and we have a much better GM and coaching staff than we did in 2011. I know Dorsey is better than Pioli was and I am CERTAIN that Reid is a FAR better coach than any we have had in a long damn time.

So will we be a better team in 2014 than we were in 2013? I think we have a decent shot at it. No matter what standard you choose to use.

And just for giggles......What if we go 8-8 or 9-7, get a wildcard berth and win a playoff game?????? Does that make us better or worse? HMMMMMMMM..............

[Seek]

I don’t believe teams are bought through free agency. I see this team being decimated by it though.

Who considers Vancy a top 40 DL? By what criteria is Walker a better run defender than either TJ or Devito? Please cite your sources. PFF grades him lower than either, particularly as a run defender. Devito grades superbly versus the run (19.1 OVR, 23 RUN). TJ (14.6 OVR, 15.5 RUN). Vancy scored 4.0 OVR and -.6 versus the run.

Don’t like stats? Name one great defense Walker was a key part of. You can’t. He’s average.

Husain Abdullah outplayed Kendrick Lewis, one of the worst safeties in the league. That’s your saving grace at safety? HA did not play even close to the number of snaps KLew logged (240 to 1072). Why? Because the coaches thought Lewis was better. They let him go and kept his backup.

Joe Mays has been all over the league in a short time. DEN cut him in favor of moving their weakside LB to take over. A guy who is no longer on their team even though they had all of the cap room in the world.

Joe Mays is a backup.

I would love to be optimistic about where this team is headed in 2014. I don’t see any reason to be.


Saving grace. You are the one claiming we are decimated in Free Agency. We let go one of the worste Safties in the NFL because he was replaced.

Sorry Vance is in the top 45 not top 40.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2010540-br-nfl-1000-top-50-defensive-tackles#articles/2010540-br-nfl-1000-top-50-defensive-tackles/page/8

So as previously stated, you are so biased on your opinion that if they are not over paid #1 prospects they are all crap when it is really your opinion of down grading quality role players that needs to be looked at.

[Mongo]

Saving grace. You are the one claiming we are decimated in Free Agency. We let go one of the worste Safties in the NFL because he was replaced.

Sorry Vance is in the top 45 not top 40.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2010540-br-nfl-1000-top-50-defensive-tackles#articles/2010540-br-nfl-1000-top-50-defensive-tackles/page/8

So as previously stated, you are so biased on your opinion that if they are not over paid #1 prospects they are all crap when it is really your opinion of down grading quality role players that needs to be looked at.

As per Bleacher Report? Okay, if they say so, seeing how they are a credible source of opinion. I'd rely on Madden football ratings before considering Bleacher Report.

[Mongo]

This is nothing more than speculation on my part, but I have a feeling that the Chiefs tried to renegotiate/extend Berry's contract. Remember on the day Jackson was released by the Eagles, Berry tweeted that a "big announcement" was coming. I speculated that the Chiefs were going to extend Berry's contract and, at the same time, free up enough additional cap space to sign DeSean.

Well, at the end of the day Berry posted a YouTube video saying his big announcement was that "... um ... [his] football camps are starting soon and you can sign up on [his] website. So chill, Chiefs fans. It's all good."

Here is what I think happened. The Chiefs made Berry an offer and his agent stepped in and told him not to sign it because he can get more in free agency after next season. Players tend to follow their agents advice pretty closely, because if they didn't think is was good advice, they would fire that agent and hire another one. I'm sure the Chiefs want to keep Berry, but they aren't going to overpay him. That's exactly what happened with Brandon Albert.

If my guess is correct, they may very well let Berry walk after next season.
That would be a terrible mistake. He is in the A group of S and deserves to the "highest paid du jour."

[Mongo]

Dupe post

[Mongo]

Funny. All I heard during and after the season was that either the offense and/or defense needed to be improved to compete with DEN. Now, I'm being told to appreciate the value of "quality" role players (backups?).

I confess the term "decimated" is an overstatement. However, the talent level has not been improved at any position on the field. Not a single one.

[Seek]

Funny. All I heard during and after the season was that either the offense and/or defense needed to be improved to compete with DEN. Now, I'm being told to appreciate the value of "quality" role players (backups?).

I confess the term "decimated" is an overstatement. However, the talent level has not been improved at any position on the field. Not a single one.

I think the people telling you that we are signing Key Role players understand that building the team is done through the draft and sigining good Free agent that fit within our budge. NOT the over priced Star players that blow up the salary cap. Yes, this team needs help at Fs, it needs help at NB and ILB. It needs helpt at Guard and WR. You can't fix all of those by buying the best player available. See the Redskins.

The reason the Donkies can do this, is because they have a core of young players they drafted with low contracts. They can then upgrade at positions that they don't have a huge need in by siging the top line Free Agents. The Chiefs have talent they drated, but most are High the highest paid players. The Chiefs failed as drafting later round Talent with smaller contracts to fill the Voids you are looking to spend the bank on. The back up players that you are upset about are the very players that need to step up to build a good team. Justin Houston is a prime example of this. A star but being paid based on a 3rd round contract. Sanders Comings, Kush, N. Davis, Johnson. These guys need to make an impact just as the players we take this year. Once our team has starters on lower Contracts the Chiefs can then fill in voids by spending a little more on Free Agents.

So in all of your dissapointment, What would you have done different. Who would you have signed and fit into this cap? We know you would have reworked Berry's contract.

[matthewschiefs]

Funny. All I heard during and after the season was that either the offense and/or defense needed to be improved to compete with DEN. Now, I'm being told to appreciate the value of "quality" role players (backups?).

I confess the term "decimated" is an overstatement. However, the talent level has not been improved at any position on the field. Not a single one.

The main disagreement I had was the use of decimated. I just don't think this team lost anything that can't be replaced. They lost some nice parts yes but hardly anyone that was playing at a top level.

That leads to my thoughts about the draft. Dorsey as I have said is going to sink or swim by how he drafts. If he drafts well and can get a few rookies to be those nice parts of the team which is possible then I think this year will be a step forward. On paper right now there really isn't any improvement to the team. But the offseason is not over yet. It's incomplete I see no reason to grip just yet.

[ctchiefsfan]

Funny. All I heard during and after the season was that either the offense and/or defense needed to be improved to compete with DEN. Now, I'm being told to appreciate the value of "quality" role players (backups?).

I confess the term "decimated" is an overstatement. However, the talent level has not been improved at any position on the field. Not a single one.

Mongo.....Don't sweat use of the word "decimated"....I think I used it myself at the start of Free Agency. But if you give an honest look at what the players we lost got on the open market and look at the cap space we have, you'll realize there was no way we could keep them. Nor was there any way we could go out and try to grab some big name players. The money simply isn't there. Certainly we might have been able to renegotiate some contracts and maybe gotten some cash to play with in Free Agency but it wouldn't have been enough to win us a Super Bowl and 3-4 years down the road we would have found ourselves well and truly screwed. Dorsey believes in building through the draft and grabbing "bargain Basement" Free Agents to fill holes. That is simply his philosophy on how you build a team. IMO it is a sound policy and a route to building a team that will eventually dominate the AFC West for the better part of a decade. But it won't happen overnight. I HATE that the double-damned donks will will likely be the team to beat in the West for another year or two and that our best hope during those years will probably be a wildcard, but if after 2 more years we find ourselves as an AFC West powerhouse with a LOT of guys playing on rookie contracts (and therefore LOTS of money available to shop in Free Agency) then the wait will have been well worthwhile.

In short, I trust Reid and Dorsey and I think they are doing the right thing. You don't....and that's OK. But there is NO WAY you're going to see me complaining about the Reid/Dorsey duo that took us from 2-14 to 11-5. They have EARNED the right to try to do things their way for a few years.

[Mongo]

I think the people telling you that we are signing Key Role players understand that building the team is done through the draft and sigining good Free agent that fit within our budge. NOT the over priced Star players that blow up the salary cap. Yes, this team needs help at Fs, it needs help at NB and ILB. It needs helpt at Guard and WR. You can't fix all of those by buying the best player available. See the Redskins.

The reason the Donkies can do this, is because they have a core of young players they drafted with low contracts. They can then upgrade at positions that they don't have a huge need in by siging the top line Free Agents. The Chiefs have talent they drated, but most are High the highest paid players. The Chiefs failed as drafting later round Talent with smaller contracts to fill the Voids you are looking to spend the bank on. The back up players that you are upset about are the very players that need to step up to build a good team. Justin Houston is a prime example of this. A star but being paid based on a 3rd round contract. Sanders Comings, Kush, N. Davis, Johnson. These guys need to make an impact just as the players we take this year. Once our team has starters on lower Contracts the Chiefs can then fill in voids by spending a little more on Free Agents.

So in all of your dissapointment, What would you have done different. Who would you have signed and fit into this cap? We know you would have reworked Berry's contract.
Believe it or not, I'm not advocating going bat-****, Daniel Snyder crazy. Maintaining a veteran presence on the OL would have been a priority to me. Scratch Jeff Linkenbach. I'd have kept Schwartz or pursued another veteran guard like Zane Beadles or Chad Rinehart. I'd consider a one year flier on Davin Joseph.

I would have liked Chris Clemons. I might've signed Lou Delmas to a friendly deal. I wouldn't have gone crazy on a safety, most likely though.

[Seek]

Believe it or not, I'm not advocating going bat-****, Daniel Snyder crazy. Maintaining a veteran presence on the OL would have been a priority to me. Scratch Jeff Linkenbach. I'd have kept Schwartz or pursued another veteran guard like Zane Beadles or Chad Rinehart. I'd consider a one year flier on Davin Joseph.

I would have liked Chris Clemons. I might've signed Lou Delmas to a friendly deal. I wouldn't have gone crazy on a safety, most likely though.

I agree on Schwartz and he liked it here in KC and he is frequently on the radio, but I think he was shopping for more money than what the Chiefs want.

Andy has always been a system guy feeling that they could find another younger guy and the system made them better. I can't tell you how many guys left Philly on bigger contracts, failed with their new team, only to return to Philly once they realized the Grass was not greener.

Chris Clemons would have been worth kicking the tires, but he is not much of an upgrade.
No thanks on Beadles. He gets beat way to often, and probably could be flagged for holding 75% of the time. Delma is no better than the other players you are upset we signed. He is a low risk high reward guy. Had lots of promise but dropped off just as fast as K. Lewis.

[TopekaRoy]

It's funny. I remember just a few years ago everybody was complaining that the Chiefs had $30M+ in cap space and they weren't using it to sign the big name FAs. Then we resigned Charles, Hali, Flowers, Bowe...even Succup and Colquitt were taken care of. Now people are complaining that we don't have the cap space to go after the big name free agents.

The pre-Dorsey regimes had a lot of misses, but when they hit, they hit big. We are against the cap because we have drafted so many pro bowlers. So many, in fact, that we had to let Albert and McCluster walk. If we had spent all that money on big name free agents years ago, most of those players would be past their primes or gone by now, and we wouldn't have had the money to keep the pro bowlers that WE drafted. THEN how good would the Chiefs be?

The Chiefs were criticized for not spending money they had; now they are being criticized for not spending money they don't have. You can't have it both ways. But I would rather spend money to keep our guys, than spend it on other teams rejects / cap casualties.

[TopekaRoy]

I'd have kept Schwartz or pursued another veteran guard like Zane Beadles or Chad Rinehart. I'd consider a one year flier on Davin Joseph.

I would have liked Chris Clemons. I might've signed Lou Delmas to a friendly deal. I wouldn't have gone crazy on a safety, most likely though.

Why are you telling us this? You should be talking to Dorsey. I'm sure he never even considered doing any of those things. And now it's too late.

If we go 7-9 this year, I'm blaming you! </sarcasm>

[Mongo]

Why are you telling us this? You should be talking to Dorsey. I'm sure he never even considered doing any of those things. And now it's too late.

If we go 7-9 this year, I'm blaming you! </sarcasm>
I was asked, smart guy! :P

[TopekaRoy]

I wasn't asked, smart guy! :P
:lol:
Well, quick, "friend" him on facebook!:SmokinBanana:

[brdempsey69]

That would be a terrible mistake. He is in the A group of S and deserves to the "highest paid du jour."

Not really. Without a formidable front 7 playing in front of him, Berry is no different from any of the other DB's that struggled last year with lack of a pass-rush over the 2nd part of the season when it came to pass defense. Berry had his struggles with Colts TE Fleener in the playoff. Sorry, but he's not the be-all, end-all of the Chiefs defensive players & I know I could take Greg Wesley in his prime & replace Berry with Wesley and there would be no drop-off. Wesley snagged 24 picks in his 5 seasons under Dick Vermeil, including 3 off of Tom Brady in one game in 2005. Justin Houston and Dontari Poe are more valuable & if Berry wants top-dollar after his rookie contract expires, then he can look elsewhere outside of KC.

[Mongo]

Not really. Without a formidable front 7 playing in front of him, Berry is no different from any of the other DB's that struggled last year with lack of a pass-rush over the 2nd part of the season when it came to pass defense. Berry had his struggles with Colts TE Fleener in the playoff. Sorry, but he's not the be-all, end-all of the Chiefs defensive players & I know I could take Greg Wesley in his prime & replace Berry with Wesley and there would be no drop-off. Wesley snagged 24 picks in his 5 seasons under Dick Vermeil, including 3 off of Tom Brady in one game in 2005. Justin Houston and Dontari Poe are more valuable & if Berry wants top-dollar after his rookie contract expires, then he can look elsewhere outside of KC.

Any DB will struggle without a pass rush when rules forbid them from even breathing on a WR. That doesn't make Berry less valuable. Greg Wesley? Are you serious? Wesley couldn't do half of the things Berry can. They've chosen to play Berry in the box so he will never have lots of INT.




Years
Tackles
Sacks
Pdef
Int


Wesley
7
497
6
25
29




71.0
0.9
3.6
4.1


Polamalu
11
709
12
99
32




64.5
1.1
9.0
2.9


Berry
3
252
5.5
29
8




84.0
1.8
9.7
2.7



Berry compares favorably to Troy Polamalu with better sack and tackle production. Wesley isn't even close in anything, except he had more INT. You can have Wesley. He can't carry Berry's jock.

[brdempsey69]

Any DB will struggle without a pass rush when rules forbid them from even breathing on a WR. That doesn't make Berry less valuable. Greg Wesley? Are you serious? Wesley couldn't do half of the things Berry can. They've chosen to play Berry in the box so he will never have lots of INT.




Years
Tackles
Sacks
Pdef
Int


Wesley
7
497
6
25
29




71.0
0.9
3.6
4.1


Polamalu
11
709
12
99
32




64.5
1.1
9.0
2.9


Berry
3
252
5.5
29
8




84.0
1.8
9.7
2.7



Berry compares favorably to Troy Polamalu with better sack and tackle production. Wesley isn't even close in anything, except he had more INT. You can have Wesley. He can't carry Berry's jock.

LOL, you've just exposed yourself as being hero-worshiping fool. Wesley could do everything that Berry can do & you didn't name one single thing that Berry could do that Wesley couldn't. And where are you getting your 'passes defended' reference from regarding Wesley and how is it possible for him to have more interceptions than passes defended? I looked pro football reference and didn't see any stats regarding pass defenses, and I don't believe the ones at NFL.com are accurate. And contrary to your belief, Wesley could hold Berry's jock and then some. And my analysis still stands, that Wesley in his prime could replace Berry with no noticeable dropoff.

Berry has been kept in the box primarily because he struggles in pass coverage & struggled just all the other DB's did in the 2nd half of the season. He's not irreplaceable & not as important as guys like Alex Smith, Dontari Poe, and Justin Houston and like it or not, those three guys are higher priority to get long-term deals done with.

[ctchiefsfan]

Yup. It's a simple fact of "salary cap football" that you can't keep every good player you have. GMs are constantly being forced to play the game of "eenie, meenie, miney, mo". Ultimately, there are very few players we can't afford to let walk if they are looking for a blockbuster retirement contract. I hate it, but it is what it is.

[jap1]

Andy has always been a system guy feeling that they could find another younger guy and the system made them better. I can't tell you how many guys left Philly on bigger contracts, failed with their new team, only to return to Philly once they realized the Grass was not greener.



I believe that is also how Green Bay worked while Dorsey was there. Reid was doing this up until the last couple of years when I think he felt too much pressure to produce and starting signing the "dream team."

[tornadospotter]

In answer of the thread question. Yes we will be a better team. Will we win more games, time will tell the story to come.

[Mongo]

LOL, you've just exposed yourself as being hero-worshiping fool. Wesley could do everything that Berry can do & you didn't name one single thing that Berry could do that Wesley couldn't. And where are you getting your 'passes defended' reference from regarding Wesley and how is it possible for him to have more interceptions than passes defended? I looked pro football reference and didn't see any stats regarding pass defenses, and I don't believe the ones at NFL.com are accurate. And contrary to your belief, Wesley could hold Berry's jock and then some. And my analysis still stands, that Wesley in his prime could replace Berry with no noticeable dropoff.

Berry has been kept in the box primarily because he struggles in pass coverage & struggled just all the other DB's did in the 2nd half of the season. He's not irreplaceable & not as important as guys like Alex Smith, Dontari Poe, and Justin Houston and like it or not, those three guys are higher priority to get long-term deals done with.
Why do you have to resort to insulting someone who dares question your opinion? It weakens your credibility and your argument. It's a shame. Your posts are intelligent otherwise, but engaging you in debate ends up not being worth the aggravation.

If I want aggravation, I'll talk to my wife. This is supposed to be fun.

[Eydugstr]

Hold up a sec, Mongo. Berry HAS been over hyped. Outside of his rookie season, can't remember a game where Berry's play was a game changer. Berry's far from bad, but if he wants to live up to press & FF rankings he's got to come through on a clutch INT in a game that matters. What Brd is pointing out, is that while Wesley wasn't the "popular kid in school" he was basically getting the same job accomplished. If Berry wants to win over everyone in the room, he's going to have to earn it.

[ctchiefsfan]

More importantly, if Berry is expecting a HUGE payday at the end of this contract then he needs to show he deserves it. He's good, but to date he has not shown he is worth the kind of money that many free agents have gotten this year.

[brdempsey69]

Why do you have to resort to insulting someone who dares question your opinion? It weakens your credibility and your argument. It's a shame. Your posts are intelligent otherwise, but engaging you in debate ends up not being worth the aggravation.

If I want aggravation, I'll talk to my wife. This is supposed to be fun.

Then don't make statements such as "Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can" or "Wesley couldn't hold Berry's jock" because that's just fabricating lies to support your argument and that's not an opinion.. Did you stop to consider that maybe you are insulting one's intelligence by doing such? I have watched both players extensively ( both Wesley and Berry ) and like it or not, I can't rate Berry as being head & shoulders above Wesley. That just isn't true. Wesley was a decent Safety right there with Berry.

And whether any of us like it or not, Dorsey is not going to cave in to any hero-worship regarding any player, including Berry. If Dorsey doesn't believe Berry is worth what he's wanting to be paid after his rookie contract expires, then Dorsey will show Berry the door, just like he did with Albert and some others.

You say that my argument & credibility is weakened, but two others gave me a thumbs up and one more gave me rep saying "great analysis", so obviously there are others that don't see it that way.

[TopekaRoy]

I gotta say, Brian, I kind of agree with Mongo on this one.

You make very good arguments and you certainly know your football. Your arguments stand for themselves. They don't become any stronger when you insult the person you are arguing with. You will do just as well by attacking the statements; not the person stating them.

Name calling is beneath you. You're better tan that.

[brdempsey69]

I gotta say, Brian, I kind of agree with Mongo on this one.

You make very good arguments and you certainly know your football. Your arguments stand for themselves. They don't become any stronger when you insult the person you are arguing with. You will do just as well by attacking the statements; not the person stating them.

Name calling is beneath you. You're better tan that.

That's as may be, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like duck, flaps it's wings like a duck, then I call it a duck. In this case, when one is fabricating BS to support their arguments out of what is clearly hero-worshiping foolishness, then I call them a hero-worshiping fool.

I can go to the flip side of the coin. I really liked the selection of Eric Fisher, but I'm not going to hero-worship him and fabricate any BS regarding him. He's got a lot of room improvement & will have a lot riding on his shoulders taking over LT this season. I can't truthfully say Fisher is a better prospect coming out of college than Russell Okung was, as Okung has longer arms and he's stronger ( 38 bench-press reps at his Combine workout compared to Fisher's 27 reps ), but by the same token I'm not going to state something silly like "Fisher can't hold Okung's jock", because that can't be determined as of yet, and when it's all said done in a few years, there's a chance that Fisher might prove to be the better player.

[Bike]

The Chiefs lost 6 of their last 8 games last year. Going into this year, I do expect them to improve on THAT. So, yes, I do expect the Chiefs to be a better team in 2014.

[brdempsey69]

I like this mock draft here:

http://fansided.com/2014/04/03/2014-nfl-mock-draft-armchair-quarterback-2/2/

It has the Chiefs getting a 3rd round pick in a trade with the 49ers and selecting DE Stephon Tuitt at #30. That would certainly be a good start in helping the Chiefs become better in 2014.

[Justin5772002]

I gotta say, Brian, I kind of agree with Mongo on this one.

You make very good arguments and you certainly know your football. Your arguments stand for themselves. They don't become any stronger when you insult the person you are arguing with. You will do just as well by attacking the statements; not the person stating them.

Name calling is beneath you. You're better tan that.
He cannot help it, in his own eyes, everything he says is gospel. Therefore making everyone else's opinion "BS Lies". Which is why I no longer comment on anything he says.

[brdempsey69]

He cannot help it, in his own eyes, everything he says is gospel. Therefore making everyone else's opinion "BS Lies". Which is why I no longer comment on anything he says.

Incorrect. It's just sour grapes on your end and you're still butthurt, because you chose to engage in a debate with me in another thread and made yourself look foolish. These statements ----> "Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can" or "Wesley couldn't hold Berry's jock" <---- are BS, as there is nothing to validate that. Not a thing. And anybody who watched both players extensively knows that.

As for your statement "in his own eyes, everything he says is gospel. Therefore making everyone else's opinion "BS Lies"", that's just a figment of your imagination. I'm quite aware that my knowledge is limited, just like everybody else, but I highly doubt you've ever even considered that fact.

Here's an example: If somebody here says something like "I believe we should draft WR Beckham with our top draft pick", I'm not going to call that BS. Personally, I do prefer a 3-4 DE that can attack the QB with the top draft pick for obvious reasons, but please do show us all where I said it was BS regarding anyone's opinion about taking a WR with the top draft pick.

You're way off base.

[brdempsey69]

Now, back on topic, going into 2014, I can't help but wonder if the Chiefs will be as good a road team as they were in 2013 and can they re-establish home-field advantage that they once had some time ago, but really didn't seem to have last year or in recent years.

The Chiefs performance on the road last year was pretty impressive, considering a lot of factors ( new coaching staff, new QB, etc. ), but the home games, not so much, except for the Giants game.

[jason1981]

We wont know if were better or not until the season starts. Our schedule is tougher but teams decline and rise every year so basing on our schedule I dont believe our record will be better bit that doesnt mean we didn't improve. No one can accurately answer this debate until the season starts and ends. just a opinions to make time pass is all this is.

[Mongo]

Incorrect. It's just sour grapes on your end and you're still butthurt, because you chose to engage in a debate with me in another thread and made yourself look foolish. These statements ----> "Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can" or "Wesley couldn't hold Berry's jock" <---- are BS, as there is nothing to validate that. Not a thing. And anybody who watched both players extensively knows that.

As for your statement "in his own eyes, everything he says is gospel. Therefore making everyone else's opinion "BS Lies"", that's just a figment of your imagination. I'm quite aware that my knowledge is limited, just like everybody else, but I highly doubt you've ever even considered that fact.

Here's an example: If somebody here says something like "I believe we should draft WR Beckham with our top draft pick", I'm not going to call that BS. Personally, I do prefer a 3-4 DE that can attack the QB with the top draft pick for obvious reasons, but please do show us all where I said it was BS regarding anyone's opinion about taking a WR with the top draft pick.

You're way off base.
No not everybody thinks that. I'm sure if a poll were taken of people who have seen both play you'd lose badly. If you'd pose your opinion to an NFL scout some probably wouldn't even remember Greg Wesley. You are the one who has nothing to back your BS. Since I've been on this board this is the extent of your "expert" analysis:

Greg Wesley = Eric Berry
Donald Stephenson & Eric Fisher = Branden Albert
And the best of all
Al > Peyton Manning.

Whatever you say.

[brdempsey69]

No not everybody thinks that. I'm sure if a poll were taken of people who have seen both play you'd lose badly. If you'd pose your opinion to an NFL scout some probably wouldn't even remember Greg Wesley. You are the one who has nothing to back your BS. Since I've been on this board this is the extent of your "expert" analysis:

Greg Wesley = Eric Berry
Donald Stephenson & Eric Fisher = Branden Albert
And the best of all
Al > Peyton Manning.

Whatever you say.

Nice try, but you fail once again. And I have no problem breaking it down to prove that the BS is clearly on your side.

1) "If you'd pose your opinion to an NFL scout some probably wouldn't even remember Greg Wesley."

That doesn't mean squat. So what, if they don't remember Wesley? Doesn't change a thing. I suspect that you never saw Wesley play.

2) Greg Wesley = Eric Berry

Please explain what makes makes Berry better than Wesley? You haven't provided one single point to back up your BS statements "Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can".

3) Donald Stephenson & Eric Fisher = Branden Albert

Both have already played better than what Albert did in 2009 and 2010 and both have higher upside than Albert ever offered. Both have better athleticism than Albert. Albert became the fan favorite of the Eric Berry worshipers like you, because Albert was their crutch for passing on Okung and drafting ( actually wasting the #5 overall pick ) Berry at #5 overall, not because of Albert's play on the field in 2009, as Albert stunk playing LT in 2009.

I'll be honest. It's because of the hero-worshipers, like yourself, that I've been looking forward to the days where Albert and Berry are no longer wearing Chiefs uniforms since the 2010 season, because since that time, too many talk this dumb trash like the Chiefs franchise totally revolved around both Albert and Berry. It doesn't, and both are EXPENDABLE and way overhyped and overrated and overpaid.

Phase 1 complete, with Albert gone. Phase 2 with Berry gone is lurking on the horizon.

4) And the best of all -- Al > Peyton Manning.

Is that the best you can do is rip what was really said, out of context? I never said Alex Smith owned Manning as you are suggesting. I said I preferred Alex to be the Chiefs QB instead of Manning and I stated the reasons why. I could also add that Alex is younger, more mobile, isn't sucking up a huge chunk of salary cap that Manning would, has traveled a much tougher path in the NFL than Manning has, and doesn't crap his pants in the face of hard pass-rush like I've seen Manning do repeatedly throughout his career.

6) Saving the best for last: You are the one who has nothing to back your BS.Since I've been on this board this is the extent of your "expert" analysis:

I have backed it & others have concurred. Let's reverse this and look at your so-called analysis, specifically ""Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can" or "Wesley couldn't hold Berry's jock"". Which of course leads to the obvious question -- is that an "expert" analysis or one born out of hero-worship foolishness. How much do you want to bet that anyone with any sense of diplomacy is going to with the latter?

[Justin5772002]

Nice try, but you fail once again. And I have no problem breaking it down to prove that the BS is clearly on your side.

1) "If you'd pose your opinion to an NFL scout some probably wouldn't even remember Greg Wesley."

That doesn't mean squat. So what, if they don't remember Wesley? Doesn't change a thing. I suspect that you never saw Wesley play.

2) Greg Wesley = Eric Berry

Please explain what makes makes Berry better than Wesley? You haven't provided one single point to back up your BS statements "Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can".

3) Donald Stephenson & Eric Fisher = Branden Albert

Both have already played better than what Albert did in 2009 and 2010 and both have higher upside than Albert ever offered. Both have better athleticism than Albert. Albert became the fan favorite of the Eric Berry worshipers like you, because Albert was their crutch for passing on Okung and drafting ( actually wasting the #5 overall pick ) Berry at #5 overall, not because of Albert's play on the field in 2009, as Albert stunk playing LT in 2009.

I'll be honest. It's because of the hero-worshipers, like yourself, that I've been looking forward to the days where Albert and Berry are no longer wearing Chiefs uniforms since the 2010 season, because since that time, too many talk this dumb trash like the Chiefs franchise totally revolved around both Albert and Berry. It doesn't, and both are EXPENDABLE and way overhyped and overrated and overpaid.

Phase 1 complete, with Albert gone. Phase 2 with Berry gone is lurking on the horizon.

4) And the best of all -- Al > Peyton Manning.

Is that the best you can do is rip what was really said, out of context? I never said Alex Smith owned Manning as you are suggesting. I said I preferred Alex to be the Chiefs QB instead of Manning and I stated the reasons why. I could also add that Alex is younger, more mobile, isn't sucking up a huge chunk of salary cap that Manning would, has traveled a much tougher path in the NFL than Manning has, and doesn't crap his pants in the face of hard pass-rush like I've seen Manning do repeatedly throughout his career.

6) Saving the best for last: You are the one who has nothing to back your BS.Since I've been on this board this is the extent of your "expert" analysis:

I have backed it & others have concurred. Let's reverse this and look at your so-called analysis, specifically ""Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can" or "Wesley couldn't hold Berry's jock"". Which of course leads to the obvious question -- is that an "expert" analysis or one born out of hero-worship foolishness. How much do you want to bet that anyone with any sense of diplomacy is going to with the latter?
Whoa! Hold the damn phone here. Have Stephenson or Fisher been nominated to a Pro-Bowl? The Answer is no! So obviously they're not as good as Albert....YET. So once again STFU computer Geek you are not the supreme being you claim to be.

[brdempsey69]

Whoa! Hold the damn phone here. Have Stephenson or Fisher been nominated to a Pro-Bowl? The Answer is no! So obviously they're not as good as Albert....YET. So once again STFU computer Geek you are not the supreme being you claim to be.

AWWWWWWWW!! Poor baby, did you crap in your diaper and did your mommy have to change your diaper for you, and fetch your formula for you, and give you a Baby Pat-A-Burp doll to put on your shoulder so that you can cry on its shoulder?

Albert being in the Pro Bowl doesn't mean squat. He did nothing to warrant being there, any more than Jeff Saturday had the year before, and Saturday had been benched by the Packers for the final month of the 2012 season. Your grandma could get elected to the Pro Bowl under the current Pro Bowl voting system.

And I never made any self-claims about being a 'supreme being' like you're suggesting. You pulled that one out of your arse.

[Mongo]

Nice try, but you fail once again. And I have no problem breaking it down to prove that the BS is clearly on your side.

1) "If you'd pose your opinion to an NFL scout some probably wouldn't even remember Greg Wesley."

That doesn't mean squat. So what, if they don't remember Wesley? Doesn't change a thing. I suspect that you never saw Wesley play.

2) Greg Wesley = Eric Berry

Please explain what makes makes Berry better than Wesley? You haven't provided one single point to back up your BS statements "Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can".

3) Donald Stephenson & Eric Fisher = Branden Albert

Both have already played better than what Albert did in 2009 and 2010 and both have higher upside than Albert ever offered. Both have better athleticism than Albert. Albert became the fan favorite of the Eric Berry worshipers like you, because Albert was their crutch for passing on Okung and drafting ( actually wasting the #5 overall pick ) Berry at #5 overall, not because of Albert's play on the field in 2009, as Albert stunk playing LT in 2009.

I'll be honest. It's because of the hero-worshipers, like yourself, that I've been looking forward to the days where Albert and Berry are no longer wearing Chiefs uniforms since the 2010 season, because since that time, too many talk this dumb trash like the Chiefs franchise totally revolved around both Albert and Berry. It doesn't, and both are EXPENDABLE and way overhyped and overrated and overpaid.

Phase 1 complete, with Albert gone. Phase 2 with Berry gone is lurking on the horizon.

4) And the best of all -- Al > Peyton Manning.

Is that the best you can do is rip what was really said, out of context? I never said Alex Smith owned Manning as you are suggesting. I said I preferred Alex to be the Chiefs QB instead of Manning and I stated the reasons why. I could also add that Alex is younger, more mobile, isn't sucking up a huge chunk of salary cap that Manning would, has traveled a much tougher path in the NFL than Manning has, and doesn't crap his pants in the face of hard pass-rush like I've seen Manning do repeatedly throughout his career.

6) Saving the best for last: You are the one who has nothing to back your BS.Since I've been on this board this is the extent of your "expert" analysis:

I have backed it & others have concurred. Let's reverse this and look at your so-called analysis, specifically ""Wesley couldn't do half the things that Berry can" or "Wesley couldn't hold Berry's jock"". Which of course leads to the obvious question -- is that an "expert" analysis or one born out of hero-worship foolishness. How much do you want to bet that anyone with any sense of diplomacy is going to with the latter?
Whatever.