What positions do the Chiefs really have to address this year?

[keatonhenry]

Hey Chiefs Crowd,

The Chiefs have been "slow" to get things done this offseason. Most fans are upset about the lack of moves that Kansas City has made after going 11-5 last season. So, Chiefs fans, what positions do you all think the team HAS to address now? And what do you think can wait till next year or after?

Here's my take:
I think the key positions of need are Middle Linebacker, Outside Linebacker, Offensive Guard, Offensive Tackle, Free Safety, and Defensive End.

Now, Outside Linebacker, Offensive Guard, Defensive End, and Defensive End are positions that mostly need depth. We aren't looking for anyone to replace Hali or Houston yet, but we need to build a rotation due to the fact that Hali is aging. I think that Middle Linebacker and Free Safety are the positions where we need to look to find potential starters.

My main reasons for the two positions that I selected are that, though we added Joe Mays, he never has been a true starter. He has been a good special teams player and a very average starter when he had the opportunity. Husain Abdullah (whom I really like) is returning, but he, like Joe Mays, has been solid at times, but we never know what he really would be as a full time starter.

Here's a quick view of my expected starting lineup, thus far into the offseason:
QB - Alex Smith
RB - Jamaal Charles
FB - Anthony Sherman
WR - Dwayne Bowe
WR - AJ Jenkins
TE - Anthony Fasano
LT - Eric Fisher
LG - Jeff Allen
C - Rodney Hudson
RG - Rishaw Johnson
RT - Donald Stephenson

LE - Mike DeVito
RE - Vance Walker (FA)
NT - Dontari Poe
LOLB - Tamba Hali
ROLB - Justin Houston
LILB - Derrick Johnson
RILB - James Michael - Johnson
CB - Sean Smith
CB - Brandon Flowers
FS - Husain Abdullah
SS - Eric Berry

What do you guys think about these thoughts???

[Justin5772002]

Hey Chiefs Crowd,

The Chiefs have been "slow" to get things done this offseason. Most fans are upset about the lack of moves that Kansas City has made after going 11-5 last season. So, Chiefs fans, what positions do you all think the team HAS to address now? And what do you think can wait till next year or after?

Here's my take:
I think the key positions of need are Middle Linebacker, Outside Linebacker, Offensive Guard, Offensive Tackle, Free Safety, and Defensive End.

Now, Outside Linebacker, Offensive Guard, Defensive End, and Defensive End are positions that mostly need depth. We aren't looking for anyone to replace Hali or Houston yet, but we need to build a rotation due to the fact that Hali is aging. I think that Middle Linebacker and Free Safety are the positions where we need to look to find potential starters.

My main reasons for the two positions that I selected are that, though we added Joe Mays, he never has been a true starter. He has been a good special teams player and a very average starter when he had the opportunity. Husain Abdullah (whom I really like) is returning, but he, like Joe Mays, has been solid at times, but we never know what he really would be as a full time starter.

Here's a quick view of my expected starting lineup, thus far into the offseason:
QB - Alex Smith
RB - Jamaal Charles
FB - Anthony Sherman
WR - Dwayne Bowe
WR - AJ Jenkins
TE - Anthony Fasano
LT - Eric Fisher
LG - Jeff Allen
C - Rodney Hudson
RG - Rishaw Johnson
RT - Donald Stephenson

LE - Mike DeVito
RE - Vance Walker (FA)
NT - Dontari Poe
LOLB - Tamba Hali
ROLB - Justin Houston
LILB - Derrick Johnson
RILB - James Michael - Johnson
CB - Sean Smith
CB - Brandon Flowers
FS - Husain Abdullah
SS - Eric Berry

What do you guys think about these thoughts???

I think that lineup can be every bit as good as last years. Unfortunately this years schedule isn't like last years and I'm afraid it won't be good enough to see the playoffs again

[kc chief]

i say take another defensive lineman spcifically in the mold of truitt from notre dame u add another big agile body similar to dontari poe is only gonna free things up for poe while making it nearly impossible to double either tamba or houston i could see peyton watching the second half of the season from a hospital bed already

[brdempsey69]

i say take another defensive lineman spcifically in the mold of tuitt from notre dame u add another big agile body similar to dontari poe is only gonna free things up for poe while making it nearly impossible to double either tamba or houston i could see peyton watching the second half of the season from a hospital bed already

I like Tuitt a lot as well and would have no problem whatsoever with the Chiefs taking him with their top draft pick. Very rare to see a true 3-4 DE that had 20.5 sacks in 28 starts in college.

[jap1]

No offense but people keep saying we need another ILB and I don't get it. How many snaps are we ever actually in our base 3-4???! Now consider we play Peyton, Rivers twice, and the whole NFC WEST and I can guarantee you our nickel CB will probably have more playing time than our starting W/RILB. All those teams are pass heavy. Yes they have good running games too, but they use the run to kill you with the pass. The W/RILB is the first guy to get pulled in passing situations and whe the offense goes 3WRs. So unless you think we are going to be getting blown out a lot and the opponents are going to be running the ball all day, then W/RILB is the least important position on defense. Sorry for the rant, but it keeps coming up again and again as a failure of Dorsey's to pick up a "starting caliber ILB." The W/RILB needs to be strong against the run and a contributor on special teams, since he will probably see as much playing time on ST as on defense.

On to other points, Husain Abdullah was the starting safety for 2 years at Minnesota before he took a year off to go on the Hajj (Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca). The fact that he started making plays late in the season probably means he was finally getting back into game shape/speed and the coaches noticed that, hence him getting resigned. I like him a lot too (partly because my mom was a teacher to him an many of his siblings) and I think between an Abdullah with a full NFL offseason, and Sanders Commings, we should see a lot of improvement at FS.

OLB is definitely a position we need to get some better depth at. Hali is getting up there in years, and there is possibility that in the next year or so, if his play declines, the team could look to cut him for cap space in favor of signing Houston long term. I may be getting ahead of this season, but it never hurts to add depth.

I am not convinced we are set at OG or DE, and definitely not WR. I'll even throw FS in there as well, since I think we will be better, but FS was really bad last year, so a little better may not be enough. I would like to more competition for OG and DE, but I won't hate it if we don't draft it. I think we have serviceable guys there right now, with OG being the bigger question in my head. I'd like to see a stronger interior pass rush, so if we cannot get that from Walker, hopefully we can draft a DE in the late first/early second if we trade down that can provide a spark there.

WR is an obvious need. I don't think we are desperate, but if I was Alex Smith and pass happy Reid, I'd be all over Dorsey to get a WR in the draft. I think AJ is going to look a lot better this year. I have high hopes for AJ and dressler. I think AJ was starting to pick up the offense last year and was a star, but on a different level. Hopefully they can step it up, but hope alone doesn't get you very far. It would be awesome to see a new WR from the draft. Someone to push for starting time and keep a fire lit under all the WRs (including Bowe's expensive a$$).

I will also add that I would love to see another big, strong press coverage CB.

[chief31]

No offense but people keep saying we need another ILB and I don't get it. How many snaps are we ever actually in our base 3-4???! Now consider we play Peyton, Rivers twice, and the whole NFC WEST and I can guarantee you our nickel CB will probably have more playing time than our starting W/RILB. All those teams are pass heavy. Yes they have good running games too, but they use the run to kill you with the pass. The W/RILB is the first guy to get pulled in passing situations and whe the offense goes 3WRs. So unless you think we are going to be getting blown out a lot and the opponents are going to be running the ball all day, then W/RILB is the least important position on defense. Sorry for the rant, but it keeps coming up again and again as a failure of Dorsey's to pick up a "starting caliber ILB." The W/RILB needs to be strong against the run and a contributor on special teams, since he will probably see as much playing time on ST as on defense.

By that definition of "pass heavy"... What team isn't pass-heavy? Do you just mean "good teams"? Because I can't see calling those teams, specifically 49ers and Seahawks, pass-heavy without abandoning everything I know about them.

The Arizona Cardinals, I can see. They ranked barely in the upper-half of the league in passing yards. But the 49ers finished 30th, while The Seahawks and Rams were 26th and 27th in the NFL. And the 49ers and Seahawks ranked 3rd and 4th in rushing, with the Rams at 19th and Az at 23rd.

I mean, no team passed fewer times than Seattle and San Fran. Not even CLOSE. They ranked 1 &2 in fewest pass attempts, and with a wide gap to to third. Likewise, they ranked 2 & 3 for most rushing attempts.

Maybe the point is that The NFL has become pass heavy, to which I have to agree. But the NFC West was the most pass-shy division around. Making a case for them being "pass-happy" is to leave reality. Both were pretty efficient in their passing. But not in any way pass-happy.

I expect that it doesn't quite reverse the viewpoint you were on there. And that wasn't my intention. I was just a bit shocked when I saw that. :bananen_smilies046:

[Seek]

If AJ Jenkins is our #2 receiver we are in trouble, unless he improves 150% from the end of last year.

Pretty much we need depth at all positions except maybe QB and running back.

We need starters at Guard, Safety, Corner and WR and a NB.

[keatonhenry]

If AJ Jenkins is our #2 receiver we are in trouble, unless he improves 150% from the end of last year.

Pretty much we need depth at all positions except maybe QB and running back.

We need starters at Guard, Safety, Corner and WR and a NB.

AJ Jenkins is highly favored in the Chiefs organization. He will be the #2 wide receiver, unless one is drafted in the first round.
We have starters at guard, corner and nickel back. (Rishaw Johnson at RG, Smith & Flowers at CB, and Chris Owens at Nickelback)

[Seek]

AJ Jenkins is highly favored in the Chiefs organization. He will be the #2 wide receiver, unless one is drafted in the first round.
We have starters at guard, corner and nickel back. (Rishaw Johnson at RG, Smith & Flowers at CB, and Chris Owens at Nickelback)

He is only favored because of his salary cap. Cutting him cost us more money. So far both he and Jon Baldwin are complete bust for #1 receiver. AJ has 8 catches in his career. Jr. Hemmingway has 13 and has shown more promise than AJ. Donnie Avery is still on our roster, and while he does drop passes he actually produces. Again, If AJ is our starter we are in trouble unless he has made drastic improvements and it is pretty clear the Chiefs were looking at upgrading our #2 with Sanders until the Donkies stole him and may Mocks have the Chiefs taking receiver in round 1.

[keatonhenry]

He is only favored because of his salary cap. Cutting him cost us more money. So far both he and Jon Baldwin are complete bust for #1 receiver. AJ has 8 catches in his career. Jr. Hemmingway has 13 and has shown more promise than AJ. Donnie Avery is still on our roster, and while he does drop passes he actually produces. Again, If AJ is our starter we are in trouble unless he has made drastic improvements and it is pretty clear the Chiefs were looking at upgrading our #2 with Sanders until the Donkies stole him and may Mocks have the Chiefs taking receiver in round 1.

Donnie Avery's contract is actually worse for us than Jenkins' is. A.J. has never really been given much of a shot to play, he actually fits Reid's offense way better than Baldwin would have and Jenkins began to see the field more the last five or so games of the season.

The defense got worse as the season went on, so I think improving the defense is much more important at this point. The offense improved as the season went on, so I think the offense itself will be fine.

[Mongo]

AJ Jenkins is highly favored in the Chiefs organization. He will be the #2 wide receiver, unless one is drafted in the first round.
We have starters at guard, corner and nickel back. (Rishaw Johnson at RG, Smith & Flowers at CB, and Chris Owens at Nickelback)
Rishaw Johnson? You gotta be kidding me. Put 2 OG on the wish list.

[brdempsey69]

Rishaw Johnson? You gotta be kidding me. Put 2 OG on the wish list.

No, he's not kidding. I just watched Johnson closely in the season final against SD via NFL Game Rewind and he played very well ( better than Asamoah ever did, who got flatbacked more than any Guard I've ever seen ). And it's not etched in stone that if the Chiefs take a Guard with their top draft pick, that said player is going to beat out Johnson for the RG position.

[Mongo]

Immediate needs: LG, RG, WR2/1, FS, MLB, RB2
Long term: WR3, QB2, ROLB, LE, RE, TE2

Neither OG position is set with a known, reliable commodity. There is no depth at any position on the OL. Dwayne Bowe needs a compliment/replacement. If he doesn’t improve on 2013 he will surely get cut.

I just can’t believe that either Husain Abdullah and unproven Sander Commings are the answer at FS. Hopefully Commings surprises me. Few late round draftees do. Joe Mays or the Johnson boys, J.M. and Nico are NFL starting caliber options. Maybe Nico steps up. I won’t hold my breath.

RB2 is an immediate need because of uncertainty around Kniles Davis to start the season. As of now Joe McKnight looks to be RB2 opening day. Not good. Am I forgetting someone?

Long term I put WR3 because I have no faith that AJ Jenkins is the answer at any key WR position. Same with Donnie Avery and Junior Hemingway. Avery is gone next year at the latest.

I envision Chase Daniel being a cap casualty next year as I do Anthony Fasano. I like Sean McGrath but don’t view him as a serious weapon, either. Not sure about Tyler Bray.

Mike Devito is getting old and he offers no pass rush anyway. I don’t see Vance Walker as a long term solution at LE. He doesn’t have the height teams want in that position. Allen Bailey needs to step up. Odds are against Mike Catapano. Both DE positions need help long term. I agree with others who’ve said drafting Stephen Tuitt wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Tamba Hali is likely to be on his last year as a Chief, sadly. Good soldier, great personal story. They may restructure his deal, but at 31 the end is near.

[Seek]

I do agree the offense is better than most think it is. My only beef with it was the promotion of AJ. No way he is a starter. I would rather see Jr. Hemmingway step up. So far he kind of reminds me of Joe Horn when he was in KC, prior to him exploding in New Orleans. However, I am still concerned with the offensive line. Not a huge fan of Fisher at the moment and not sure about Guard.

[Mongo]

No, he's not kidding. I just watched Johnson closely in the season final against SD via NFL Game Rewind and he played very well ( better than Asamoah ever did, who got flatbacked more than any Guard I've ever seen ). And it's not etched in stone that if the Chiefs take a Guard with their top draft pick, that said player is going to beat out Johnson for the RG position.
I can't pin my hopes on one game. I won't say RJ's not the answer. I can't bank on it. Better to have plan B ready.

Of the 8 OL KC has under contract few warrant a grade of a C. None are better than that.

[brdempsey69]

I can't pin my hopes on one game. I won't say RJ's not the answer. I can't bank on it. Better to have plan B ready.

Of the 8 OL KC has under contract few warrant a grade of a C. None are better than that.

Neither were any of the guys that walked via FA, except maybe Schwartz.

[Mongo]

LT Eric Fisher C-
LG Jeff Allen F
C Rodney Hudson C-
RG Rishaw Johnson I
RT Donald Stephenson C-
OL Jeff Linkenbach F
C Eric Kush I
OL Colin Kelly I

Formula for disaster. PS: In my mind an Incomplete (I) is an F until proven otherwise.

[Mongo]

Neither were any of the guys that walked via FA, except maybe Schwartz.
That doesn't change the fact the unit is need of talent.

[brdempsey69]

LT Eric Fisher C-
LG Jeff Allen F
C Rodney Hudson C-
RG Rishaw Johnson I
RT Donald Stephenson C-
OL Jeff Linkenbach F
C Eric Kush I
OL Colin Kelly I

Formula for disaster. PS: In my mind an Incomplete (I) is an F until proven otherwise.

That's still better than what they had in 2009 and 2010 and 2011. And you are basing that off of last season. 2014 is a different entity, and at least this really is a young developing O-Line that does have a chance to get better.

If these rating are coming from PFF, then you're tapping into the wrong source. Their O-Line ratings are worthless. They never make mention of the series of opponents these guys play against.


That doesn't change the fact the unit is need of talent.

I didn't say that there wasn't room for improvement or that they shouldn't try to add more talent to this unit. But, it may not come this off-season, but rather next off-season with more cap space and more draft picks.

[Eydugstr]

Donnie Avery's contract is actually worse for us than Jenkins' is. A.J. has never really been given much of a shot to play, he actually fits Reid's offense way better than Baldwin would have and Jenkins began to see the field more the last five or so games of the season.

The defense got worse as the season went on, so I think improving the defense is much more important at this point. The offense improved as the season went on, so I think the offense itself will be fine.

That's exactly why I hope that Jenkins becomes our speedy WR. Avery had his chances and most of them ended with drops. It wasn't until halfway through the season that he started to consistently catch the ball, and then he'd start making drops again, in big games. Towards the end of the season we started getting some use out of Jenkins.

[keatonhenry]

That's exactly why I hope that Jenkins becomes our speedy WR. Avery had his chances and most of them ended with drops. It wasn't until halfway through the season that he started to consistently catch the ball, and then he'd start making drops again, in big games. Towards the end of the season we started getting some use out of Jenkins.

Totally agree. There's a reason why Jenkins was a first round pick. Plus, even though he's only had a minimal amount of catches in his career, you've got to remember that he wasn't allowed to see the field much thus far because he always had seasoned veterans in front of him. (See: Michael Crabtree & Mario Manningham in San Fransisco, Dwayne Bowe & Donnie Avery in Kansas City)

I think that the Chiefs will start with the duo of Dwayne Bowe and A.J. Jenkins as starters, which will allow Donnie Avery to fill the slot position, in Dexter McCluster's role.

[Mongo]

That's still better than what they had in 2009 and 2010 and 2011. And you are basing that off of last season. 2014 is a different entity, and at least this really is a young developing O-Line that does have a chance to get better.
To quote Lloyd Christmas, “So you’re saying there’s a chance?!” I can’t bank on it. I really don’t care about 2009-11. The unit is not as good as last years.



If these rating are coming from PFF, then you're tapping into the wrong source. Their O-Line ratings are worthless. They never make mention of the series of opponents these guys play against.

By that standard no stat is reliable. I’m no OL technician. I don’t take the time to review the tape. It seemed to me that far too many times Al had to tuck the ball and run. That’s not all on the OL. The WR bear some responsibility too.

Charlie still averaged 5.0 yards per carry. That’s still awesome by all standards, except his own. It’s his worst average ever. Still it’s a great number and a tribute to him being able to make something out of nothing and some late game stat padding. When the game was in doubt it seemed the OL really offered little help. No matter who played.


I won’t argue Albert’s place with you because it is moot. I knew he was gone this year no matter what. Schwartz wasn’t great, but played pretty well it seemed. The OL got better with him. Just not wild about replacing him with an unknown when you’re already pretty sure Allen is a bust.



I didn't say that there wasn't room for improvement or that they shouldn't try to add more talent to this unit. But, it may not come this off-season, but rather next off-season with more cap space and more draft picks.
Agreed. With the cap remaining and the limited draft picks, not every hole can be filled. I was just hoping this team in general could at least remain status quo while resolving issues. Not just by record but talent level. I’m skeptical that it can.

[Mongo]

Totally agree. There's a reason why Jenkins was a first round pick. Plus, even though he's only had a minimal amount of catches in his career, you've got to remember that he wasn't allowed to see the field much thus far because he always had seasoned veterans in front of him. (See: Michael Crabtree & Mario Manningham in San Fransisco, Dwayne Bowe & Donnie Avery in Kansas City)

I think that the Chiefs will start with the duo of Dwayne Bowe and A.J. Jenkins as starters, which will allow Donnie Avery to fill the slot position, in Dexter McCluster's role.
A.J. Jenkins, by most all accounts was a drastic reach as an R1 pick. He carried a R3 grade most everywhere.

Do you realize that there are few if any teams with a trio of worse WR? We already know that Donnie Avery is a D grade WR.

Expecting drastic improvement from A.J. Jenkins is grasping at straws. The 49ers have become a top franchise in the NFL. They don't throw away future stars.

[Eydugstr]

A.J. Jenkins, by most all accounts was a drastic reach as an R1 pick. He carried a R3 grade most everywhere.

Do you realize that there are few if any teams with a trio of worse WR? We already know that Donnie Avery is a D grade WR.

Expecting drastic improvement from A.J. Jenkins is grasping at straws. The 49ers have become a top franchise in the NFL. They don't throw away future stars.

The point keatonhenry is making is that we truly don't know what we have with Jenkins until we give him a shot.

SF never really gave him much a chance, mainly because they had reliable WR's in place. KC wasn't expecting Jenkins to be the next Jerry Rice when we traded for him. But given our salary cap and lack of draft picks, and the fact that he fits Avery's job description as the speed guy, and might have better hands, where's the fear in giving him a try?

[keatonhenry]

A.J. Jenkins, by most all accounts was a drastic reach as an R1 pick. He carried a R3 grade most everywhere.

Do you realize that there are few if any teams with a trio of worse WR? We already know that Donnie Avery is a D grade WR.

Expecting drastic improvement from A.J. Jenkins is grasping at straws. The 49ers have become a top franchise in the NFL. They don't throw away future stars.

In case you weren't paying attention to the last several game of the season, you could see Jenkins' improvement, both as a catcher and a blocker. Plus, based off of many reports by Chiefs news websites, John Dorsey and Andy Reid both have seen drastic improvement in Jenkins and he is expected to surpass Avery in the starting lineup. The same goes for Rishaw Johnson. He actually was a starter for the Seahawks in his one season there, but became a casualty after their depth chart got flooded on the interior offensive line. He is a very capable starter and the Chiefs' staff believes that.

[Mongo]

In case you weren't paying attention to the last several game of the season, you could see Jenkins' improvement, both as a catcher and a blocker. Plus, based off of many reports by Chiefs news websites, John Dorsey and Andy Reid both have seen drastic improvement in Jenkins and he is expected to surpass Avery in the starting lineup. The same goes for Rishaw Johnson. He actually was a starter for the Seahawks in his one season there, but became a casualty after their depth chart got flooded on the interior offensive line. He is a very capable starter and the Chiefs' staff believes that.I don't care how much Jenkins "improved" as per guys likely to say nice things. He only saw the field because the other alternatives proved worse. It's not as if he lit it up. He made a few plays. That's it.

As for Rishaw, by who's standard do you call him a capable starter? I realize SEA is world champs but I doubt they're so loaded they can afford to throw away "capable starters." Why didn't play sooner? They could have moved Schwartz to LG.

I hope Reid and Dorsey are right. The 2014 season depends on gambles such as these.

[brdempsey69]

As for Rishaw, by who's standard do you call him a capable starter? I realize SEA is world champs but I doubt they're so loaded they can afford to throw away "capable starters." Why didn't play sooner? They could have moved Schwartz to LG.



Johnson did not go through a full training camp in KC in 2013. Notice though, that by seasons end that Asamoah had been relegated to a backup & yet, Asamoah didn't get the start in the season final against SD, it was Johnson that did. Johnson did also see some snaps in the playoff game at LG, as well.

A more appropriate question might be "by who's standard does one call Asamoah a capable starter, outside of Scott Pioli?". If Pioli is counting on Asamoah to bolster the interior O-Line in Altlanta to help protect Matt Ryan, then I pity Matt Ryan. The Chiefs brass realized they couldn't count on Asamoah and that's why he lost his job & showed him the door.

[matthewschiefs]

IMO DEFENSE across the board.

I've been very vocal about this defense. It needs some FREAKING toughness. Guys who won't go soft as soon as things start getting tough like this defense has. DEFENSE still wins championships just see the past Super Bowl.

[brdempsey69]

IMO DEFENSE across the board.

I've been very vocal about this defense. It needs some FREAKING toughness. Guys who won't go soft as soon as things start getting tough like this defense has. DEFENSE still wins championships just see the past Super Bowl.

Agreed, as it WASN'T the Offense that was the problem at seasons end. It was the Defense that went to oatmeal. People are pimping a WR to the Chiefs with their top draft pick, but I'm of the belief that a 3-4 DE that attack the QB like Hageman or Tuitt would be a better pick and they can shop for a WR and Safety and O-line depth in later rounds.

Here's a list of prospects the Chiefs have interviewed either at the Senior Bowl, East-West Shrine game, Combine, Pro Day, or privately & most of them are Defensive players:

Justin Anderson, DL, UMass (PRO)
Lonnie Ballentine, DB, Memphis (PRI)
Chris Borland, LB, Wisconsin (COM)
HaHa Clinton-Dix, DB, Alabama (COM)
Darqueze Dennard, DB, Michigan State (COM)
Kony Ealy, DL, Missouri (COM)
Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M (COM)
E.J. Gaines, DB, Missouri (COM)
Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Eastern Illinois (EW)
Ryan Grant, WR, Tulane (SR%)
Ra'Shede Hageman, DL, Minnesota (COM)
Derrell Johnson, LB, East Carolina (PRI)
Wesley Johnson, OL, Vanderbilt (SR)
Christian Jones, LB, Florida State (SR)
Kenny Ladler, DB, Vanderbilt (SR)
Marqise Lee, WR, USC (COM)
Keith Lewis, CB, Virigina-Lynch (PRO)
Aaron Lynch, DL, South Florida (COM)
Zach Moore, DL, Concordia (COM)
Louis Nix, DL, Notre Dame (COM)
Chris Smith, DL, Arkansas (SR)
Stephon Tuitt, DL, Notre Dame (COM)
Jason Verrett, DB, TCU (COM)

[Mongo]

The point keatonhenry is making is that we truly don't know what we have with Jenkins until we give him a shot.

SF never really gave him much a chance, mainly because they had reliable WR's in place. KC wasn't expecting Jenkins to be the next Jerry Rice when we traded for him. But given our salary cap and lack of draft picks, and the fact that he fits Avery's job description as the speed guy, and might have better hands, where's the fear in giving him a try?
KC has no choice but to give him a try. I understand that we don't know, for certain, what KC has in Jenkins. I'm pretty confident he is a WR4 at best. Regardless of my opinion, what do you think is most likely:

A. A.J. Jenkins was overlooked in SF and is on the verge of breaking out.
B. A.J. Jenkins was a bust in SF. He was traded for another bust at WR so it wasn't a matter of WR overload. It was because he wasn't good enough. They only reason he looks remotely competent in KC is the lack of quality alternatives at WR.

Sorry, but law of averages leans towards B. Let's be realistic.

[Mongo]

I'm inclined to believe the offense's "improvement" was an aberration.

The offense gets too much credit and not enough blame for the playoffs. A lot of the first half points were setup by turnovers created by the defense. In the second half, as the defense struggled to hold on, the offense produced nothing.

This offense is not okay. It's not getting better and will be exposed when going against top shelf defenses like those in the NFCW.

The reason everyone in the world earmarks a WR to the Chiefs is because the Chiefs are awful at the position.

[matthewschiefs]

I'm inclined to believe the offense's "improvement" was an aberration.

The offense gets too much credit and not enough blame for the playoffs. A lot of the first half points were setup by turnovers created by the defense. In the second half, as the defense struggled to hold on, the offense produced nothing.

This offense is not okay. It's not getting better and will be exposed when going against top shelf defenses like those in the NFCW.

The reason everyone in the world earmarks a WR to the Chiefs is because the Chiefs are awful at the position.

The offense was MUCH imporved the last month of the season to deny that is just being silly.

The playoff game did the D give them some short fields yep. But the offense still has to get in the endzone. People who use this bs line to try to whine about the offense forget this team in 2012 had 1st and goal at the 1 yard line and found a way to:sign0053: it up.

Bottom line the offense scored enough points that even in todays NFL wins over 99% of the time. There are 256 games in a year last year only 2 games were lost by a team who scored as many points as the Chiefs did that is good for a .008%. Yep the offense was the letdown :lamende: oh and by the way the defense also didn't lose it's best player less the 5 minutes in the game

[Eydugstr]

KC has no choice but to give him a try. I understand that we don't know, for certain, what KC has in Jenkins. I'm pretty confident he is a WR4 at best. Regardless of my opinion, what do you think is most likely:

A. A.J. Jenkins was overlooked in SF and is on the verge of breaking out.
B. A.J. Jenkins was a bust in SF. He was traded for another bust at WR so it wasn't a matter of WR overload. It was because he wasn't good enough. They only reason he looks remotely competent in KC is the lack of quality alternatives at WR.

Sorry, but law of averages leans towards B. Let's be realistic.

C. Regardless of whether he was a bust or not in SF, he's a Chief now. Far as I'm concerned after all the passes dropped by the other WR's, and given the fact that this years draft class has a lot of good WR's in it, not sure there's a safe spot for anyone on the roster. That includes Jenkins, but IMHO Hemmingway and Jenkins both should get a better look in preseason. It's not like we're in the middle of the season.

Granted, I hear & understand where people are coming from when they say D, but also take into account all the criticism this offense had during the first half of the season. People were complaining about A.Smith being a dink and dunk qb, it was a dink and dink Reid offense, the D was responsible for all the success etc etc. Sat there and watched pass after pass being dropped after hitting the recievers in the numbers or hands. At one point KC was #4 in dropped passes. Doesn't anybody understand that in those dropped passes were a lot of possible 1st downs that could've helped the D?

To me, with this draft it makes perfect sense to add a WR. Doesn't have to be in round one. There still will be some WR talent there with this class. So that frees up the #1 pick to go after a monster DE, which with any good luck there will still be some around at #23.

[chief31]

The offense was MUCH imporved the last month of the season to deny that is just being silly.

The playoff game did the D give them some short fields yep. But the offense still has to get in the endzone. People who use this bs line to try to whine about the offense forget this team in 2012 had 1st and goal at the 1 yard line and found a way to:sign0053: it up.

Bottom line the offense scored enough points that even in todays NFL wins over 99% of the time. There are 256 games in a year last year only 2 games were lost by a team who scored as many points as the Chiefs did that is good for a .008%. Yep the offense was the letdown :lamende: oh and by the way the defense also didn't lose it's best player less the 5 minutes in the game

Yeah.... I am with Matt here Mongo.

Not that the offense is 'fine, no need to worry'. But you have some major league rationalizing to do to come away focusing on the offense as the problem.

And that playoff game is not something that fits your case. The defense allowed six touchdowns, including a 64 yard, over the top pass, with a six point lead, and 1:15 seconds left to defend.......

That is a colossal, front-to-back, top-to-bottom, inside-and-out failure of the defense.

Whereas the offense produced 513 yards of offensive production in a single game. And they only turned the ball over one time.

That is a Grade A performance.

The defense earned a clear-cut F. They did manage a couple of turnovers. But not enough to counter the five second half TDs they allowed.

You seem to be pointing at the offense for not getting the + on that 'A'.... I mean, no.... They did not do the defense's job of keeping the opponent from scoring 35 points in the second half. And they had a chance at the end but came up short. But give me that offensive performance and I win 19 out of 20 games.

Likewise, if you give me that defensive performance, I will lose 19 out of twenty games.

Having said that... I agree that the offense is far from a finished product. I need them to perform over 16-20 games, not just one. And they were pretty ugly for the first half of 2013. The improvement in the second half is undeniable. But, that it has problems is just as undeniable.

And the defense, having looked terrible throughout the second half of the season, looked exceptional through the first half. So we have a half of a season of problematic offense, and a half of a season of problematic defense.

What tips the scale, quite dramatically for me, toward the needs on defense, is the trends of each. The offense started slow, and got it together as the season progressed. Whereas the defense started strong, but seemed to be exposed as the season progressed. And that playoff game highlighted those trends exactly.

Going from bad to good instills confidence. And going from good to bad causes concern.

My concern is with what happened to the defense. And, while it seems to get brushed over pretty well, I think the biggest part of it was Justin Houston's absence. But I HAVE TO put the defense at the forefront of our list of needs. I do not require the greatest defense, but I do require better than what we saw the last few games we played. Much better.

[doobs_05]

The offense only put up 13 points in the second half in the playoff game (6 points in like 29 minutes)? I saw that as the offense went back to playing as they did in the first half of the season.

Defense went to ****>offense not producing in the second half.

[Seek]

That's exactly why I hope that Jenkins becomes our speedy WR. Avery had his chances and most of them ended with drops. It wasn't until halfway through the season that he started to consistently catch the ball, and then he'd start making drops again, in big games. Towards the end of the season we started getting some use out of Jenkins.

Guys, before the season started last year, Jenkins was slated to be a starter for San Francisco but as pre-season unfolded he was bounced to the bubble, but only kep due to cap size. He was given a fair shot, he has failed to take advantage. He has been given his fair chances to make plays for the Chiefs as well and failed to get open or hold on to the ball. He did make one crucial catch for us in the play off game. I remember being shocked that he held on to it. They did start targeting him after that so maybe that helped his chances but as fast as he is supposed to be, he does not get any separation.

[doobs_05]

Guys, before the season started last year, Jenkins was slated to be a starter for San Francisco but as pre-season unfolded he was bounced to the bubble, but only kep due to cap size. He was given a fair shot, he has failed to take advantage. He has been given his fair chances to make plays for the Chiefs as well and failed to get open or hold on to the ball. He did make one crucial catch for us in the play off game. I remember being shocked that he held on to it. They did start targeting him after that so maybe that helped his chances but as fast as he is supposed to be, he does not get any separation.


and it not like SF had the cream of the crop WR core. Before baldwin showed up it was crabtree and vernon and Jenkins couldn't make a name for himself on that roster, then, Baldwin showed up crabtree got hurt and he couldn't do it again.

[Seek]

Here is some fact for you all. Alex Smiths QB rating improved the first half of the season was around 80. The last half he was 101. yet the team still only won two games because they were playing tougher teams and the defense failed. The offense was still getting used to the system, and to the new players. Once they all got comfortable and knew what they had the offense improved as the year went on. With a full season under the belt and an understanding of the system, the team has a solid ground to start working on this year in camp. Only new players will need to get caught up to how the Chiefs want to run things.

Look, I don't know how many teams completely change their coaches, their QB and style of offense and turn things around immediately. Even Peyton in Denver took some time to ge their offense rolling but finished the season very strong. Year two they came out on fire. Case in point, look at the Trent Green era. He comes in with a new team, a new system and the first year he is nicknamed TrInt and no one knew who Priest Holmes was but as that first season took place the offense got better. By the next year it was a top 5 offense and then the #1 offense.

The signs are there that this offense is poised to be a strenght next year. I am not as worried about the offense. The defense though reminded me a bunch of Greg Robinson trying to force a square peg in a round hole.

[matthewschiefs]

Yeah.... I am with Matt here Mongo.

Not that the offense is 'fine, no need to worry'. But you have some major league rationalizing to do to come away focusing on the offense as the problem.

And that playoff game is not something that fits your case. The defense allowed six touchdowns, including a 64 yard, over the top pass, with a six point lead, and 1:15 seconds left to defend.......

That is a colossal, front-to-back, top-to-bottom, inside-and-out failure of the defense.

Whereas the offense produced 513 yards of offensive production in a single game. And they only turned the ball over one time.

That is a Grade A performance.

The defense earned a clear-cut F. They did manage a couple of turnovers. But not enough to counter the five second half TDs they allowed.

You seem to be pointing at the offense for not getting the + on that 'A'.... I mean, no.... They did not do the defense's job of keeping the opponent from scoring 35 points in the second half. And they had a chance at the end but came up short. But give me that offensive performance and I win 19 out of 20 games.

Likewise, if you give me that defensive performance, I will lose 19 out of twenty games.

Having said that... I agree that the offense is far from a finished product. I need them to perform over 16-20 games, not just one. And they were pretty ugly for the first half of 2013. The improvement in the second half is undeniable. But, that it has problems is just as undeniable.

And the defense, having looked terrible throughout the second half of the season, looked exceptional through the first half. So we have a half of a season of problematic offense, and a half of a season of problematic defense.

What tips the scale, quite dramatically for me, toward the needs on defense, is the trends of each. The offense started slow, and got it together as the season progressed. Whereas the defense started strong, but seemed to be exposed as the season progressed. And that playoff game highlighted those trends exactly.

Going from bad to good instills confidence. And going from good to bad causes concern.

My concern is with what happened to the defense. And, while it seems to get brushed over pretty well, I think the biggest part of it was Justin Houston's absence. But I HAVE TO put the defense at the forefront of our list of needs. I do not require the greatest defense, but I do require better than what we saw the last few games we played. Much better.

Someones starting to see the light LOL


Bottom line is one unit played well enough to win 99.2% of the time the other unit played bad enough to win .08% of the time. Offense wasn't perfect to say the least but they did enough to win that game if the defense shows up at all.

[doobs_05]

Someones starting to see the light LOL


Bottom line is one unit played well enough to win 99.2% of the time the other unit played bad enough to win .08% of the time. Offense wasn't perfect to say the least but they did enough to win that game if the defense shows up at all.

But heres the thing, both sides of the ball didn't show up the second half.

the strip from alex was the begining of everything falling apart. The defense made some plays (i remember one INT in the second half) but we came away with 6 points after that strip on alex.

Defense and Offense did it's job up until the strip on alex

Defense deserves most of the blame but the offense deserves some as well

[matthewschiefs]

But heres the thing, both sides of the ball didn't show up the second half.

the strip from alex was the begining of everything falling apart. The defense made some plays (i remember one INT in the second half) but we came away with 6 points after that strip on alex.

Defense and Offense did it's job up until the strip on alex

Defense deserves most of the blame but the offense deserves some as well

Well I said the offense wasn't perfect. but the thing still comes back to even though the offense lost their best player on the first drive they did enough to win over 99% of the time. They had all the reason to fall apart after losing the team MVP. The defense was the unit that fell apart far more then the offense. They fell apart the last month they are more to be worried about IMO

[TopekaRoy]

Interesting thread.

Some good arguments have been made for taking a defensive end, a safety, a WR or even a guard with the first draft pick. Here are my thoughts.

Let's look back at last season. Before the bye our defense played very well and the team gave up an average of 10.6 ppg. Even though the offense only averaged 23.9 ppg (and many of those points were generated by the defense and special teams) the Chiefs went 9-0. It's true that the defense benefitted from weak competition. It is also true that the offense was learning a brand new playbook and were handcuffed by a vey vanilla, basic, do-just-enough-to-win game plan. But the fact is that with great defensive play and not much offense, the Chiefs were undefeated.

After the bye Reid took the handcuffs off and we got to see just what the offense was capable of. Unfortunately, this was at the same time that we lost Houston and then Hali the very next week, just in time to face some of the very best offenses in the NFL. The offense averaged 30.7 ppg, yet we only went 2-5 over that stretch. In fact, in the only two games we won, we scored 45 and 56 points. There is no clearer illustration of the old cliche that defense wins football games than this.

Without Hali and Houston our defense couldn't pressure the QB, our secondary was exposed, and good QBs tore us up. Not being able to get off of the field, the defense would tire quickly and that just made them look even worse. With everyone healthy, the defense was pretty good, but a few injuries exposed our lack of depth. (My Bears went through the same thing last year, losing four of their starting front seven.)

All of this tells me that we need to focus on defense. We certainly need to replace Kendick Lewis, but just about anybody (including some players that we may already have on our roster) would be an upgrade over him. But a solid pass rush hides a lot of flaws in the secondary, forces the QB to rush his passes or throw the ball away, improves field position, and creates turnovers through fumbles and interceptions. T-Jax needs to be replaced and I'm not sure Vance Walker is an upgrade over him. While he didn't get many sacks, he was very good at tieing up blockers, allowing Hali, Houston and Berry to blitz the QB, and solid at stuffing the run. With him gone we have the perfect opportunity to get a DE (like Tuitt) that can get to the QB himself, taking some of the pressure off of the linebackers and allowing them to cover the pass, or stuff the run at the line of scrimmage.

As far as LBs go, more depth would be good, but with the "nickel" (and sometimes the "dime") package being used so much, I think we are ok with what we have for this year, provided Hali and Houston don't both get hurt at the same time again. I think I would maybe bring in a FA for depth after the draft or pick one up after the first round of cuts in preseason and wait on drafting one until next year, when we wil have far more picks and, hopefully, fewer holes to fill.

A star WR would certainly make our offense better, but, as I have just shown, it doesn't matter how good our offense is if our defense can't stop the other team, and the Broncos showed that in the Super Bowl as well. Add to this the fact that the Chiefs have a run heavy (or at least it should be) ball control west coast style offense that emphatizes the TEs and uses the WRs less, and drafting another WR becomes even less of a priority.

I get the impression that those who are hollering for a WR want us to have an offense like Denver has, that scores quickly and trots the defense back out there to give up another touchdown. That's not what the Chiefs offense is. That's not who Andy Reid is and, as much as some of you would like to turn him into Peyton Manning, that's not who Alex Smith is.

If we go offense with the first pick, a guard is more of a priority than a WR, but, after taking an OT with the first pick, last year, I don't think anyone wants to see that. The problem with O-linemen is that they are so hit-and-miss that a 4th round pick is just about as likely to be as good as a first round pick and a first rounder is as likely to be a bust as a third rounder. So I don't hink we should risk possibly wasting a first round pick on a guard.

It's not that we shouldn't try to develop a great o-line. In the early 2000s we had that and our offense was great. Since losing Roaf, Waters, Shields, etc. we haven't had a great o-line, or a great offense. The Bears replaced 4 of their starting 5 o-linemen and, in one year, went from one of the worst offenses to the 2nd highest scoring offense in the NFL. They did take OG Kyle Long in the first round, but OT jordan Mills wasn't selected until the 5th round and both are very good starters. They also picked up two o-linemen in FA. Fortunately we don't have four holes to fill on our o-line; just one.

So, in summary, to me it's a no brainer. A good pass rusher gives the team the most return on their investment. Free safety is a need, to be sure, but a great DE would make a huge difference and would help us beat Denver and San Diego. Let's not forget that those two teams accounted for 4 of our 5 losses, last year. Every game counts, but winning the division is a must. You aren't likely to beat the Donkeys in a shootout. You have to stop them with defense.

[Eydugstr]

Agreed with you on many points, TR - but last year was more of a 60/40 pass/run offense. Not sure that the TE situation is that stable either. Hopefully Kelce will go a long ways to changing that.

My main reason for a new WR is all the dropped passes we had last season, and don't like the prospect of relying on D.Bowe or Avery as the top two recievers. There's no way I'd want an offense that hinged on one person (Manning). With all the different formations that we ran, and all the possible options that could be ran from each one, would rather stick with what we've got now until every kink was worked out.

Do agree about getting a pass rusher. It'd be great to add an upgrade to DeVito or Walker alongside Poe. It's also feasible to draft one with the first pick, and go after a WR later in the draft, and still upgrade both spots. Getting a good guard at #4 or 5 shouldn't be impossible, getting a monster one would be very unlikely, though. Another hesitation I have with drafting a WR at #1 is the injury bug (for ex. Yatil Green, Sylvester Morris, Baldwin) Same goes for the DB's & Safeties.

[TopekaRoy]

Agreed with you on many points, TR - but last year was more of a 60/40 pass/run offense.

This is true, but there are some good reasons for that. First, a lot of those pass plays were just flips to someone in the backfield (dinks and dunks :smile) and effectively worked like running plays. Remember Charles was also our leading receiver catching 70 passes for 693 yds.

I'm sure you recall, Reid admitted that we weren't running the ball enough and he intended to "fix" that. However, it was shortly after that that our defense fell apart and we were forced to pass more because we were playing from behind a lot. In fact, in our first post-bye win (against the 'Skins) we actually ran the ball 38 times and only passed it 23 times. We led 17-0 at the end of the first qtr and were up 31-0 in the 2nd qtr before Washington ever scored so we could do that. Plus we were averaging 5.1 ypc so that made sense. Our other post-bye win (against the Faders) was far more balanced, passing 25 times and rushing 24, but that was only because we were only averaging 3.3 ypc, but 7.5 yds per pass and we completed 80% (20 out of 25) of our passes. Why NOT throw the ball until your opponent finds a way to stop it?

Now, if our defense had been better we would have run the ball more, protecting our lead and keeping the other team's offense off of the field. So even there, it all centers around the defense.


Not sure that the TE situation is that stable either. Hopefully Kelce will go a long ways to changing that.

Agreed, but between Kelce, Fasano and McGrath, our TE by committee should be able to get the job done. Fasano and McGrath both showed flashes of potential last year, but nobody is really saying that a TE is a high priority. Everyone is focused on a WR on that side of the ball.


My main reason for a new WR is all the dropped passes we had last season, and don't like the prospect of relying on D.Bowe or Avery as the top two receivers. ...

Agreed, here too. And yet, even with all of those dropped passes, we still managed to put up 27 or more points in 5 of our last 7 games (including the wild card). The only two we didn't were against the Colts when we scored only 7 points and our last regular season game when none of our starters played. It's almost scary to think how good our offense would have been without many of those drops, but they still put up a lot of points.

I totally agree with you on the rest of our comment. :smile

[chief31]

But heres the thing, both sides of the ball didn't show up the second half.

the strip from alex was the begining of everything falling apart. The defense made some plays (i remember one INT in the second half) but we came away with 6 points after that strip on alex.

Defense and Offense did it's job up until the strip on alex

Defense deserves most of the blame but the offense deserves some as well

45-44. The defense did not do their job. They allowed five second half TDs.

The offense didn't do anything in the second half? That's because they were playing defense instead of offense.

I get that "the offense wasn't eating up enough time from the clock.... Well, unfortunately, neither was the defense. They were giving up TDs quicker than The Chiefs' offense was going three & out. And, even playing it so conservative, they still put points on the board, and held TOP edge for the second half.

The problem was five TDs being scored, with an average time for those five drives being 2:03.

And the offense is somehow THAT BAD?!?!?!?!?!?!? HOW? How many turnovers would ACTUALLY relate to a defense giving up five TDs at an average of 2:03 per possession?

80 yards, 5 plays, 1:52 ToP - TD Colts
41 yards, 5 plays, 1:28 ToP - TD Colts
80 yards, 6 plays, 1:41 ToP - TD Colts
90 Yards, 12 plays, 4:02 ToP - TD Colts
80 yards, 4 plays, 1:15 ToP - TD Colts.

That's 371 yards of offense, and 35 points, in 10:18 of game-clock.

The primary goal of the defense is to prevent points. If they do score, make it FG, for only three points, instead of seven. Second would be to make them work hard for any of it, and keep their gains short. Third would be to get the ball back quickly.

Note... Failing at jobs one and two, does not mean you did a good job of goal number three, because the offense gets the ball back. It actually amplifies the failure of the first two goals.

But let's extrapolate that, for context.... The average ToP for a game is about 30 minutes. AT the rate of those five possessions for The Colts, were a team to ever manage to fail that poorly for a full 30 minutes of game-clock, then they will have allowed 102 points. (101.61)

How one can see that, and go on to propose how much more the offense could have done, than to put up 44 points.... I just don't know what kind of motivation that requires.

It's a strange position to be in. Because I agree with the core sentiment, that the offense is not great.

But where some reach to make that case is astonishing. You have an entire season you can point at. And you have chosen their best output of the year, to contrast the worst output the defense had all year?

It has to be done for dramatic effect. We are, after all, nothing if not internet drama-queens. :lol:

[brdempsey69]

Gotta hand it to TopekaRoy and chief31, because much of the media hasn't really been paying attention and insists on pimping a WR to the Chiefs with their top draft pick.

Pat Kirwan at CBS Sports, however, is projecting Tuitt to be the Chiefs top draft pick.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft/expert/pat-kirwan

I don't have a problem with a WR being taken with the top draft pick IF guys like Tuitt and Hageman are off the board, but if either are there, the Chiefs brass has to consider taking them, as there is a huge need for a 3-4 DE that can attack the QB & that's what much of the media is NOT paying attention to.

[TopekaRoy]

...
Defense deserves most of the blame but the offense deserves some as well

Just to add to what Chiefs31 said...

I would give a little credit to Andrew Luck. He's a very good QB.

But I would put most of the blame on injuries.

I'm not saying the Colts did anything illegal or dirty, but their coach said before the game that Jamaal Charles was "public enemy #1" and the first thing they did was take him out of the game. On the offensive side we also lost Knile Davis and Donnie Avery. On defense we lost Flowers with a concussion, Houston was out with a knee injury when Hilton caught the game winning pass and he was "probable" for the game to start with. Hali was also playing hurt he was a game-time decision. If we had avoided just one, or certainly two of those injuries, I'm pretty sure we would have won the game.

I don't think it is fair to blame the offense. They scored 31 points in the first half. You can't really expect them to score a total of 62 points against a playoff team. If you do then that says a lot about your faith in the defense. Remember the Colts are the same team that held the Chiefs to just 7 points in week 15 when we were still fighting to win the division. The Chiefs scored 101 points in the two games prior and Indy held them to one touchdown. Two weeks later we light them up for 44.

No, the offense excelled in spite of all the injuries. The defense flopped because of all the injuries. I don't see how you can blame the offense.

I can't seem to say this enough: "Defense wins championships."

[Seek]

Gotta hand it to TopekaRoy and chief31, because much of the media hasn't really been paying attention and insists on pimping a WR to the Chiefs with their top draft pick.

Pat Kirwan at CBS Sports, however, is projecting Tuitt to be the Chiefs top draft pick.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft/expert/pat-kirwan

I don't have a problem with a WR being taken with the top draft pick IF guys like Tuitt and Hageman are off the board, but if either are there, the Chiefs brass has to consider taking them, as there is a huge need for a 3-4 DE that can attack the QB & that's what much of the media is NOT paying attention to.

so the Chiefs have already upgraded the hole left by Jackson with V. Walker. I hate how national guys do little homework on a team when writing about them. If you want to say that Tuitt would help bolster a struggling defense by adding additional depth at De by challenge their current average DE Mike Devito, Allen Bailey and Vance Walker. I would take him more serious because then he actually tells me that he has an idea on what the Chiefs would have and may see as value. Losing Jackson was an upgrade.

[TopekaRoy]

so the Chiefs have already upgraded the hole left by Jackson with V. Walker. ... Losing Jackson was an upgrade.
I don't think we lose much with Walker, but I don't see how you can say he is an "upgrade." Compare their career stats.

Vance: 73 games 119 tackles (82 solo) 8 sacks 2 forced fumbles
Tyson: 74 games 201 tackles (139 solo) 9 sacks 0 forced fumbles

How is Walker better than Jackson? Cheaper, yes. One year younger, yes but both have played for 6 years. But better? I don't see it.

[brdempsey69]

so the Chiefs have already upgraded the hole left by Jackson with V. Walker. I hate how national guys do little homework on a team when writing about them. If you want to say that Tuitt would help bolster a struggling defense by adding additional depth at De by challenge their current average DE Mike Devito, Allen Bailey and Vance Walker. I would take him more serious because then he actually tells me that he has an idea on what the Chiefs would have and may see as value. Losing Jackson was an upgrade.

What's being overlooked is that Walker has played in a 4-3 all through his career, Bailey is in the last year of his rookie contract and hasn't been any ball of fire, DeVito could be gone after 2015, and even if Catapano emerges, the need for a guy like Tuitt is still there. None of those guys have the physical ability or upside that Tuitt does.

Not saying that losing Jackson wasn't an upgrade, BUT the need for a BEAST 3-4 DE that can attack the QB and help out Poe, Houston, and Hali is still there. It's very rare to see a draft prospect that decked opposing QB's 20.5 times in 28 starts as a TRUE 3-4 DE in college.

[Eydugstr]

I totally agree with you on the rest of our comment. :smile

What's this "OUR" crud ?!? (j/k, think you forget to type a "y")


even with all of those dropped passes, we still managed to put up 27 or more points in 5 of our last 7 games (including the wild card).

Do agree with a lot of what you just said, but the drops were really bad in the first half of the season, not so much the second. While JC's an incredilble player, part of the reason for him leading in receptions wasn't just in designed playcalling, it was also because the WR's were dropping the ball.

If we'd cut down our drops to a half or even a third, we'd have a different season right there. Does that excuse the defensive meltdown that happened? Certainly not, and change is needed there. My concern is that the WR position will go unchanged, and we'll get the same results.

[TopekaRoy]

What's this "OUR" crud ?!? (j/k, think you forget to type a "y")

Forgive me for trying to share credit in YOUR comment. "Y" did I do that?

(typo)

Edited to add: PS. I also said "I don't hink that ..." when I meant to say "I don't think that ..."

It's true though. I never hink.

[Eydugstr]

Forgive me for trying to share credit in YOUR comment. "Y" did I do that?

(typo)

Edited to add: PS. I also said "I don't hink that ..." when I meant to say "I don't think that ..."

It's true though. I never hink.

Yeah,yeah, sure...the "I never hink" defense...

[Pro_Angler]

We need a #1 WR. A safety opposite berry. A corner opposite flowers and a DE.

[jap1]

Gotta hand it to TopekaRoy and chief31, because much of the media hasn't really been paying attention and insists on pimping a WR to the Chiefs with their top draft pick.

Pat Kirwan at CBS Sports, however, is projecting Tuitt to be the Chiefs top draft pick.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft/expert/pat-kirwan

I don't have a problem with a WR being taken with the top draft pick IF guys like Tuitt and Hageman are off the board, but if either are there, the Chiefs brass has to consider taking them, as there is a huge need for a 3-4 DE that can attack the QB & that's what much of the media is NOT paying attention to.

I've seen tuitt mocked to us by a couple people a month or so ago, but more importantly I have seen him and Hagemnn dropping in their draft position down to the early-mid 2nd round in a lot of mocks. This is important because if that trend holds, we may be able to trade down into the early 2nd, pick up an extra 3rd. That would really let us fill a lot of holes/add depth/continue building from the draft.

[brdempsey69]

I've seen tuitt mocked to us by a couple people a month or so ago, but more importantly I have seen him and Hagemnn dropping in their draft position down to the early-mid 2nd round in a lot of mocks. This is important because if that trend holds, we may be able to trade down into the early 2nd, pick up an extra 3rd. That would really let us fill a lot of holes/add depth/continue building from the draft.

I'm all for it if they could trade down and get an extra pick or two and still land Hageman or Tuitt.

[Mongo]

I can't dispute that guys like Tuitt, Hageman and maybe even Quarles would be of value, but the simple fact is this: The WR corp is far, far, far, far worse than the DL. It's not even close. I don't care how many points were scored in the second half of the season. I don't care how the defense faltered AFTER its top players got hurt.

The Chiefs must improve the WR corp to compete.

[brdempsey69]

I can't dispute that guys like Tuitt, Hageman and maybe even Quarles would be of value, but the simple fact is this: The WR corp is far, far, far, far worse than the DL. It's not even close. I don't care how many points were scored in the second half of the season. I don't care how the defense faltered AFTER its top players got hurt.

The Chiefs must improve the WR corp to compete.

Incorrect. Buffalo and Denver had held the Chiefs pass-rush in check prior to Hali and Houston getting hurt. Both teams double-teamed Poe and there was no inside pressure, giving Manning in particular too much time to find open receivers & if Buffalo would have had a quality QB leading them, they would have won that game going away. This season, they will face nothing but quality QB's.

They can improve at WR, but to say "The Chiefs must improve the WR corp to compete" is a bit of a stretch. Offensively, it will depend on how well their O-Line performs against the many tough Defensive front 7's that they will likely face this season.

Also the WR corp isn't "far, far, far, far worse" than the DL. I'd say it's closer than that, and to say that both areas need upgraded would be a more accurate statement.

[Seek]

I don't think we lose much with Walker, but I don't see how you can say he is an "upgrade." Compare their career stats.

Vance: 73 games 119 tackles (82 solo) 8 sacks 2 forced fumbles
Tyson: 74 games 201 tackles (139 solo) 9 sacks 0 forced fumbles

How is Walker better than Jackson? Cheaper, yes. One year younger, yes but both have played for 6 years. But better? I don't see it.

He is an upgrade because you are comparing carreer stats. If you break down the Career by opportunities and progressing to where they are today over their careers you will see that Walker has very similar stats for a career but posted most of his stats in the last two years while Jackson posted his consistently over the last 6 with his best beting three year ago. He basically started every game he was healthy, While Vance started only 2 games his first three seasons but played in nearly every game in rotations or being a special teams player, skewing his stats in comparision to Jackson.

Walker was a 7th round pick and based on his stats has shown greater improvement while Tyson's stats shows that he peaked three years ago and has regressed since then, making Walker an upgrade over Jackson.

[TopekaRoy]

He is an upgrade because you are comparing carreer stats. If you break down the Career by opportunities and progressing to where they are today over their careers you will see that Walker has very similar stats for a career but posted most of his stats in the last two years while Jackson posted his consistently over the last 6 with his best beting three year ago. He basically started every game he was healthy, While Vance started only 2 games his first three seasons but played in nearly every game in rotations or being a special teams player, skewing his stats in comparision to Jackson.

Walker was a 7th round pick and based on his stats has shown greater improvement while Tyson's stats shows that he peaked three years ago and has regressed since then, making Walker an upgrade over Jackson.
Okay, that makes sense. I can see him not starting in Atlanta with Massequoi on the team.

I'm a bit concerned that the Falcons let him go to Oakland, and the Raiders defense sucked last year, but after only one year the Raiders didn't re-sign him and brought in Lamaar Woodley at LDE. Then again, the Raiders do a lot of dumb things.

Both CBS.com and ourlads.com project him as playing 2nd string behind Allan Bailey. We will see if that changes during training camp.

[chief31]

80 yards, 5 plays, 1:52 ToP - TD Colts
41 yards, 5 plays, 1:28 ToP - TD Colts
80 yards, 6 plays, 1:41 ToP - TD Colts
90 Yards, 12 plays, 4:02 ToP - TD Colts
80 yards, 4 plays, 1:15 ToP - TD Colts.

That's 371 yards of offense, and 35 points, in 10:18 of game-clock.

But let's extrapolate that, for context.... The average ToP for a game is about 30 minutes. AT the rate of those five possessions for The Colts, were a team to ever manage to fail that poorly for a full 30 minutes of game-clock, then they will have allowed 102 points. (101.61)


Just for fun.... I did the yards... During those five drives (even though it excludes a quick INT possession in between) they gave up 371 yards in 10:18 of possession time. If that were to persist for thirty minutes of possession time at that rate... They would have given up 1077 yards of offense.
:lol:

[Seek]

Okay, that makes sense. I can see him not starting in Atlanta with Massequoi on the team.

I'm a bit concerned that the Falcons let him go to Oakland, and the Raiders defense sucked last year, but after only one year the Raiders didn't re-sign him and brought in Lamaar Woodley at LDE. Then again, the Raiders do a lot of dumb things.

Both CBS.com and ourlads.com project him as playing 2nd string behind Allan Bailey. We will see if that changes during training camp.

Well, all I am saying is that he is an improvement. I didn't say it didn't take much to be an improvement. Again, as I had stated. I am fine taking Tuitt to help boster our Defensive line. I just had an issue with their reasoning. Acting like T. Jackson leaving left us in some sort of void that requires a priority over other holes.

[Bike]

Chiefs need a FS - bad. Of course we need OL, WR, and CB. But if Calvin Pryor is still on the board at 23, I could see us grabbing him.

[brdempsey69]

Chiefs need a FS - bad. Of course we need OL, WR, and CB. But if Calvin Pryor is still on the board at 23, I could see us grabbing him.

Pryor I would take. But Clinton-Dix? No thanks, the Chiefs have already had two Alabama DB's wash out just recently ( Arenas and Menzie ).