Houston/Hali/Bowe????

[ctchiefsfan]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/155861/tamba-hali-worth-the-cost-to-chiefs

An interesting read from Teicher who I generally don't like.

Hali is going to cost us $12 million next year.

Bowe will cost us $14 million next year.

Somehow we need to figure out how to keep Houston next year. That is going to cost big bucks. And I think it would be better to get a long term deal done with him than to franchise him.

I'm leery of letting Hali go. His production is down this year, but our defense has been pretty damned good with him and Houston. Wonder if Hali would renegotiate in trade for an extra year or two to give us some cap space to sign a new deal with Houston? He has to know that his NFL career is winding down.

And after the last 2 years Bowe is starting to pish me off with his $14 million.

Do we consider getting rid of Bowe to keep Houston and Hali?

Could we get Hali to renegotiate for an extra year or two and release Bowe to keep our pass rushing attack amongst the best and replace Bowe on the cheap through the draft?

What do my fellow Chiefs fans think?

[slc chief]

I say pay Houston and pay him good he is a special player. let hali walk sucks but is the nature of the beast. make bowe restructure his deal other wise let him walk

[Justin5772002]

I like Hali I don't want to see him go. He is still an above average starting OLB in this league if we could renegtiotiate his contract it would serve us well. Houston earned his pay we could have gotten him cheaper if we would have resigned him before training camp this year but he knew his big payday is coming and he's going to make us pay big now

[mejohnm]

I agree with keeping Hali. I sure hope he will redo his contract though. Bowe, he also needs to restructure his contract. Houston though, he is going to be seeing $$$ here soon.

[rodu]

Anyone feel that Dee Ford could start next year? If he is it would be easier to let Hali go than Bowe

[slc chief]

Anyone feel that Dee Ford could start next year? If he is it would be easier to let Hali go than Bowe

I do that guy has one of the quickest first steps a lot of people have ever seen. that being said it is all on him how serious he is going to take it. if he spends time this year building upper body strength and practicing his swim move. and other tactics of the position he could be an absolute beast. but hard for him to stand out and shine this year with two top notch players ahead of him like Houston/hali. hali has 2 maybe 3 more productive seasons left in him if he is asking big money I think it would be best to let him test the waters

[jap1]

As far as Ford starting next year, I think he needs to learn how to cover and play against the run. He is a decent pass rusher so far. He needs to get comfortable dropping into coverage and playing strong against the run before he can replace the presence that Hali provides.

[Lewis_Chiefs]

Both Bowe and Hali could go, Bowe is worth not much more than half of what he's getting paid and Hali is 31.

One thing is for sure, however we do it Houston HAS to get paid.

[NickheadKCAU]

no way bowe is back next year....

regardless how it happens...

trade, cut, freak injury, he will not be back :D

[matthewschiefs]

no way bowe is back next year....

regardless how it happens...

trade, cut, freak injury, he will not be back :D

Bowe could come back if he is willing to take a pay cut. He just hasn't lived up to the money that he is being paid. To many drops to many let downs

Bowe is not a bad wr. But he is not someone that is going to be the carry a WR core. He needs talent around him

[slc chief]

Let hali go hopefully ford tears it up with that extra year under his belt. You would think that was dorseys thought process going into the pick

[ctchiefsfan]

Bowe could come back if he is willing to take a pay cut. He just hasn't lived up to the money that he is being paid. To many drops to many let downs

Bowe is not a bad wr. But he is not someone that is going to be the carry a WR core. He needs talent around him

Yep....He ain't half bad. But he is a #2 WR. Plain and simple. Our Chiefs NEED a #1 WR. 50% pay cut and I'd be happy to see Bowe stay on the roster.

[NickheadKCAU]

i cannot believe people on this board question alex smith but yet defend bowe...

unbelievable!!!!!!!!

[texaschief]

We just spent a first round pick on Hali's replacement. No need to bring Hali into 2015. Cut Bowe loose as well and re-sign Houston. Let the Houston/Ford era begin! We have so many holes to fill. The salary that Bowe and Hali would take up wouldn't be worth it. Both can be or already are replaced at a MUCH less rate... despite what Teicher says. Bowe did very little in this offense and Ford would make a nice pillow to land on after losing Hali. People seem to think we need a safety to replace Berry... I don't agree with that. Some depth at the position would be nice, but Abdullah and Parker will be just fine next season.

The O-line needs some help from the 2nd and 3rd rounds or free agency. I'd like an ILB to go with DJ... I don't think Mauga is the answer there. But WR is where the priority lies this offseason. My hope is we have an entirely new crop of WRs going into OTAs next season. This group just doesn't cut it. I wouldn't mind keeping Albert Wilson and/or Jason Avant... everyone else needs to go due to lack of talent or... well... lack of talent. The O-line is taking a ton of heat... some deserved, some not. I saw plenty of times this season where the Oline gave Smith plenty of time to deliver a pass but the WRs couldn't get open. I'd say more than 70% of the sacks the Chiefs gave up were coverage sacks. This offense requires WRs to get off the line and create separation... if they can't do that, the passing game becomes non-existent.

This team NEEDS WRs... PERIOD.

[matthewschiefs]

i cannot believe people on this board question alex smith but yet defend bowe...

unbelievable!!!!!!!!

It's unreal but they can't blame anyone but Alex and think that yet again changing out QBs is the answer

[texaschief]

Right now, we're over the cap. If we cut Bowe, Hali, Berry (I'm sure there's some kind of exemption the Chiefs will get from the league that would be close to the number they'd have available if they cut him), Daniel, and Avery, we go from being $1mil over the cap to $30mil UNDER the cap... and just take a look at those names... are we REALLY losing any production? There might be a step back in production from the Hali/Ford transition, but seriously... Bowe did nothing, Berry wont play next season, Daniel can be replaced by Murray or Bray, and Avery was hurt all year. SEND THEM ALL PACKING!! (Berry excluded)

Re-invest that money into some veteran O-line/WR help and draft some rookies to boost those positions as well. Look at extending some of the key players like Poe, K. Davis, Hudson, etc.

[N TX Dave]

i cannot believe people on this board question alex smith but yet defend bowe...

unbelievable!!!!!!!!

My reply to new QB is who are you going to get better than Alex? There are no can't miss QB at the 17 pick in this draft and there are none in the league that we can get that are any better, in fact there are only a hand full of QBs that could maybe do much better on this team as it currently is and their teams are not going to let them get away.

Alex was sacked the 4th most in the league at 45 times, that is either the OL not holding up which I saw many times this year Alex being hit on a 3 step drop or less and being chased out of the pocket many times real quick or the WR not getting any separation (coverage sack) which we saw many times also.

[ctchiefsfan]

i cannot believe people on this board question alex smith but yet defend bowe...

unbelievable!!!!!!!!


Sure as hell not me.

[ctchiefsfan]

We just spent a first round pick on Hali's replacement. No need to bring Hali into 2015.

You're probably right. My wanting to hold on to Hali is mostly sentimentalism. But if he would take a big pay cut in trade for an extension I'd like to see it happen.


Cut Bowe loose as well and re-sign Houston.

Damned right!


People seem to think we need a safety to replace Berry... I don't agree with that. Some depth at the position would be nice, but Abdullah and Parker will be just fine next season.

That is right too. I gotta say though...I REALLY DON'T LIKE the idea of cutting Berry when he is battling cancer. That wouldn't be right. If he can't play next year, then there should be some way we can retain our rights to him without taking the cap hit. Berry has been a good Chief and it would be just plain WRONG to kick him to the curb. Make him an off-cap waterboy. Clark Hunt can afford it for the balance of Berry's contract.


The O-line needs some help

Sure as hell!


But WR is where the priority lies this offseason.

That's a fact jack!!!!!


I wouldn't mind keeping Albert Wilson and/or Jason Avant...

YUP! They are both pretty good. We need to keep them both but draft some SERIOUS talent at WR. Neither is a star WR.


everyone else needs to go due to lack of talent or... well... lack of talent.

Or lack of GIVE A DAMN!!!!! These boys get paid a TON OF MONEY. They need to f'ing EARN it.


The O-line is taking a ton of heat... some deserved, some not. I saw plenty of times this season where the Oline gave Smith plenty of time to deliver a pass but the WRs couldn't get open. I'd say more than 70% of the sacks the Chiefs gave up were coverage sacks. This offense requires WRs to get off the line and create separation...

True again.


if they can't do that, the passing game becomes non-existent.

A small correction. If we don't have WRs that can create separation then our offense is a FARCE because an offense with no long ball game is just too damned easy to defend against. Alex is not a long ball gunner, but if there is no long ball threat then the entire offense is in the shipper. To have a legitimate offense we have to make the enemy defense fear the long ball. Just to keep the bastids honest. Otherwise we are pretty much operating at 3rd and 20 almost every play. We are in DESPERATE need of some ship-hot Wide Receivers. I don't think it is Smith's fault. True, he will never be a long ball gunner, but he needs some good WRs to keep the long ball threat alive. And right nnow he doesn't have them.


This team NEEDS WRs... PERIOD.

FACT!!!!!!

[Seek]

Bowe and Berry will both be gone next year. As Decent as Chase Daniel looked yesterday he could also be a cap cut with Mike Devito possibly on that list.

[ctchiefsfan]

It's unreal but they can't blame anyone but Alex and think that yet again changing out QBs is the answer

Changing QB is NOT the answer, And even this DF knows that. Alex is what he is. Good enough to keep us in the playoff chase every year so long a he has a halfway decent team around him. He is our QB for at least 2 more years. And I feel pretty confident he will get us at least a playoff win.

[KCMASS]

Just get rid of Bowe. The most overpaid & over-rated WR in the NFL. I really dislike him. Keep Hali (hopefully he'll play ball with his contract) & Houston is a MUST. Find WR's thru draft & FA & beef-up the O-Line. I think drafting Knile Davis in the 3rd round was genius, although @ the time I didn't think so.

[mdchiefsfan74]

I like Bowe but he isn't a number 1 receiver. That 14 million has to walk. But we need to make sure we replace him. I can see us dropping him and just filling in from within!

[Seek]

Some media people here think Tamba is the type of person who realizes he is getting old and is humble enough to possibly work with the Chiefs to renogatiate his contract.

The off season will be interesting.

[doobs_05]

My reply to new QB is who are you going to get better than Alex? There are no can't miss QB at the 17 pick in this draft and there are none in the league that we can get that are any better, in fact there are only a hand full of QBs that could maybe do much better on this team as it currently is and their teams are not going to let them get away.

Alex was sacked the 4th most in the league at 45 times, that is either the OL not holding up which I saw many times this year Alex being hit on a 3 step drop or less and being chased out of the pocket many times real quick or the WR not getting any separation (coverage sack) which we saw many times also.

Now this is what kind of makes me laugh at the Smith defenders (except Matt, he has mentioned this), you don't even mention that Smith might be a problem at holding the ball way too long sometimes.

[doobs_05]

i cannot believe people on this board question alex smith but yet defend bowe...

unbelievable!!!!!!!!

Both are overpaid, both have their flaws.

[N TX Dave]

Now this is what kind of makes me laugh at the Smith defenders (except Matt, he has mentioned this), you don't even mention that Smith might be a problem at holding the ball way too long sometimes.

What do you want him to do just throw the ball up for grabs because no one is open before the rush gets to him, then you would be complaining about his turnovers? Sure he may hold on to the ball to long sometimes waiting for a WR to get any separation.

Okay I tried to answer your question but you did not even try to answer my question instead just laughed it off, who should or could we get that is better than Alex? It is one thing to say "we have a problem" but not give any suggestions on a fix even when asked, when you do that you come off as whining or using a liberal logic in any argument which is to never answer a question and just reiterate your original question or ask another question. What is your solution to the QB situation other than to complain?

[Seek]

What do you want him to do just throw the ball up for grabs because no one is open before the rush gets to him, then you would be complaining about his turnovers? Sure he may hold on to the ball to long sometimes waiting for a WR to get any separation.

Okay I tried to answer your question but you did not even try to answer my question instead just laughed it off, who should or could we get that is better than Alex? It is one thing to say "we have a problem" but not give any suggestions on a fix even when asked, when you do that you come off as whining or using a liberal logic in any argument which is to never answer a question and just reiterate your original question or ask another question. What is your solution to the QB situation other than to complain?

Can't talk logic to some people. Once they get it in their heads he is a problem. Anything would be better. This whole discussion sparked just from C. Daniel playing just like S. Smith.

Alex has his issues, but I am not really sure how many of those issues are his. When we lost the TN, Alex was trying to make more throws down the field, and they were getting tipped up, or missed etc..... After that week, the offense pulled back on the reins and it was dink and dunk until it became an issue.

I do think he started holding the ball to long, I also think he didn't hold it long enough and dumped it off was to soon at times. Chase at least hit his reads real quick, at least until half time then he held the ball even longer.

So, my first solution is fixing the talen around the QB. We need a better O line and better receivers. I just takes one play to make a huge difference.

[doobs_05]

What do you want him to do just throw the ball up for grabs because no one is open before the rush gets to him, then you would be complaining about his turnovers? Sure he may hold on to the ball to long sometimes waiting for a WR to get any separation.

Okay I tried to answer your question but you did not even try to answer my question instead just laughed it off, who should or could we get that is better than Alex? It is one thing to say "we have a problem" but not give any suggestions on a fix even when asked, when you do that you come off as whining or using a liberal logic in any argument which is to never answer a question and just reiterate your original question or ask another question. What is your solution to the QB situation other than to complain?

My solution is alex take chances once in a while, and the play calling step it up with deeper throws being called, Alex throwing passes away and not taking sacks, let the WR makes plays sometimes.. I was just saying that there are people who fully blame alex then there is people who just won't even give him an ounce of blame.

[N TX Dave]

Can't talk logic to some people. Once they get it in their heads he is a problem. Anything would be better. This whole discussion sparked just from C. Daniel playing just like S. Smith.

Alex has his issues, but I am not really sure how many of those issues are his. When we lost the TN, Alex was trying to make more throws down the field, and they were getting tipped up, or missed etc..... After that week, the offense pulled back on the reins and it was dink and dunk until it became an issue.

I do think he started holding the ball to long, I also think he didn't hold it long enough and dumped it off was to soon at times. Chase at least hit his reads real quick, at least until half time then he held the ball even longer.

So, my first solution is fixing the talen around the QB. We need a better O line and better receivers. I just takes one play to make a huge difference.

I agree Alex could do better at getting rid of the ball faster sometimes but why does he hold on so long sometimes and not others? Could it be on separation by WR? I don't know I am not the coach and do not spend time reviewing tape. But I do know that when he does go down field he is being hit most of the time as he throws and it seems like over half the time the WR does not make the catch or steps out of bounds.

If I can not use logic with doobs I will just stop replying to him, that is my logic. If they both play the same, what is in common between them? Maybe coaching or play calling or WR or OL I am not paid big money to figure it out and fix it.

[ctchiefsfan]

Some media people here think Tamba is the type of person who realizes he is getting old and is humble enough to possibly work with the Chiefs to renogatiate his contract.

I surely hope so. Tamba has been a great Chief and still is. He's one of those guys that you really want to see spend his entire career with one team. Of course, football is a business and the salary cap is the salary cap so Tamba may well go down the road. But I am just a fan and at least once in a while I'd like to see a great player spend his entire career with one team.

[ctchiefsfan]

Both are overpaid, both have their flaws.

With all due respect, I think the Alex Smith defenders (me included) have admitted he has some flaws. No doubt about it. But we flat out need a decent QB and I just don't know if we have a better option right now or had a better option at the start of this season. Unless you think Dorsey was high as a kite when he made the Smith contract extension then what should we have done differently? Chase Daniel is a whole lot cheaper and looks pretty good every time he plays but should we really have let Alex Smith play out his contract and gone with Daniel in 2015? Or Bray? Murray?

Saying Alex Smith isn't good enough without suggesting what we could have done better is really pretty much just complaining.

[texaschief]

Not gonna lie... Smith does hold the ball too long even when he has the opportunity to get rid of the ball. If Manning and Brady who are immobile can throw the ball away before they're sacked... there's no reason why a mobile guy like Smith can't do the same more than he already does. That is the MOST frustrating thing about Alex Smith's game, imo. If a WR or check down isn't available, throw to the feet of someone close... don't take the damn sack! He needs to improve his pocket awareness as well. There are times I see him in the pocket and all he's doing is watching the rush instead of having his eyes down the field.

If the offensive line were really the problem, I think Andy Reid is smart enough to create plays to get his QB out of the pocket on rollouts and bootlegs... that just wasn't the case this season which, would indicate that the coaching staff doesn't really believe the problem is primarily with the offensive line. The problem is with this group of WRs who can't get open quick enough or even at all.

I wish I had the time to post all the pass plays I've watched this season where the WRs just didn't seem interested whatsoever with getting open. Jogging through routes, allowing the CBs to get their hands on them, rounding off routes, not coming back to the ball, etc... it was horrific to watch all season if you had any idea at all what to watch for at that position. Even a horrible O-line and awful QB find ways to accidentally throw a TD to a WR. When the WRs aren't interested, you can't force them to care. Hell, even Charlie Whitehurst on a 2-win Tennessee team had multiple TDs to WRs this season...

There's absolutely no argument to be made that the WR group this team had in 2014 was NOT the problem.

[jap1]

Not gonna lie... Smith does hold the ball too long even when he has the opportunity to get rid of the ball. If Manning and Brady who are immobile can throw the ball away before they're sacked... there's no reason why a mobile guy like Smith can't do the same more than he already does. That is the MOST frustrating thing about Alex Smith's game, imo. If a WR or check down isn't available, throw to the feet of someone close... don't take the damn sack! He needs to improve his pocket awareness as well. There are times I see him in the pocket and all he's doing is watching the rush instead of having his eyes down the field.

If the offensive line were really the problem, I think Andy Reid is smart enough to create plays to get his QB out of the pocket on rollouts and bootlegs... that just wasn't the case this season which, would indicate that the coaching staff doesn't really believe the problem is primarily with the offensive line. The problem is with this group of WRs who can't get open quick enough or even at all.

I wish I had the time to post all the pass plays I've watched this season where the WRs just didn't seem interested whatsoever with getting open. Jogging through routes, allowing the CBs to get their hands on them, rounding off routes, not coming back to the ball, etc... it was horrific to watch all season if you had any idea at all what to watch for at that position. Even a horrible O-line and awful QB find ways to accidentally throw a TD to a WR. When the WRs aren't interested, you can't force them to care. Hell, even Charlie Whitehurst on a 2-win Tennessee team had multiple TDs to WRs this season...

There's absolutely no argument to be made that the WR group this team had in 2014 was NOT the problem.

The only point I disagree is the many times I saw Smith getting hit on a hitch or a 3 step drop and throw.

But I agree the wrs are as big a problem the wrs.