Justin Houston Update

[Chiefs4life24]

A reliable source has tweeted me that the biggest hangup to Houston's new deal is Guaranteed money and average money per year. Think watt money

[brdempsey69]

Just googled what Watt is making:

Prior to the start of the 2014 season, the Texans and Watt agreed to a six-year contract extension, worth $100 million. Watt received $30.9 million at signing and he will receive $21 million at the start of the 2016 season if he is on the roster.

This will be interesting to see what finally happens.

[ctchiefsfan]

Thanks Chiefs4life and demps for the good info. That is a whole potful of money.....but just in my own opinion I think Houston has shown he is durable enough to justify a similar contract. Obviously, we don't have the cap space to give him $30 million on signing, but I think I'd be OK with a 6 year contract that guaranteed roughly the same money as Watt got.

But in the end, in Reid and Dorsey I trust.

[Chiefs4life24]

I think I would be okay with that too. To bad we don't have the cap space this year that we do next year cause this would already be a done deal

[ctchiefsfan]

I think I would be okay with that too. To bad we don't have the cap space this year that we do next year cause this would already be a done deal

It shouldn't be an issue. Sign him for $100 million with $60 million guaranteed and be done with it. All Houston really cares about is the guaranteed money. So he signs now, makes $13 million (franchise money which we will have to pay him anyway) this year with another $43 million guaranteed and everybody is happy. What's the damned problem?

If what he wants is Watt money, then give it to him. Better investment than we flushed down the toilet with Bowe. And if he is holding out for that $30 million up front then as far as I am concerned he can go straight to hell. Look at Tamba. He said right up front he would take a pay cut to help get a Houston deal done. Give him Watt money with a similar guarantee but just structured to meet our cap needs. If he won't do that much then let him ROT!!!

[Chiefs4life24]

so is up front money just how it sounds a bonus pretty much?

[brdempsey69]

Or perhaps he signs the franchise tender of 13.2 mil for this year and either a deal gets done in March 2016 ( if he has another stellar season) or he walks via FA.

[jap1]

There are a couple misunderstandings regarding how the contracts affect our cap space here.

First, there is a difference between a signing bonus and guaranteed money. A signing bonus is exactly what it sounds like. When you sign the contract, you get a check for that much money immediately. The effect on the cap is spread out, though. So a $10 mil signing bonus on a 5 year contract means that it will affect the cap at the rate of $2 mil per year.

Guaranteed money is not all paid up front. It is the money that he received as a signing bonus PLUS the other money guaranteed over the course of the contract. Thus number will vary every year, but he doesn't receive it all at once, unless he is cut. At that point, any money that was guaranteed and has not yet been paid becomes immediately due, and I believe all counts as dead money for this year. Sometimes a contract can be worth "$XXX mil" but have very little guaranteed because most of the money is tied up in bonuses based on performance, attending workouts, etc, etc. All the guaranteed money in a specific year goes against the salary cap. The non-guaranteed (bonus) money counts against the cap only if that performance condition is met. If he doesn't meet the requirement, or is cut, there is NO effect on the cap.

Here is a link to Watt's contract including a year to year breakdown of the contract amounts and cap hits:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/j.j.-watt/

(I'm not sure why his cap hit/contract ed so low In the first year)

[Coach]

Or perhaps he signs the franchise tender of 13.2 mil for this year and either a deal gets done in March 2016 ( if he has another stellar season) or he walks via FA.
Houston isn't going any where for 2 more years. Even if we franchised him next year, he'd still be making less than what he is wanting. Next year's tag would be this year's price plus another 20%, approximately $16mm. He's reportedly asking for $20mm. If we force him to play under the tag this year and next, it costs the Chiefs approximately $30mm total. There is no hurry to get a deal done by anyone other than Houston's agent. If Houston has a subpar season this year or next, his price tag will come down. He's coming off a 20 sack season so He wants a contract done now. There haven't been many 20 sack seasons in nfl history. The chances of him doing it again this year aren't great. And even if he did, we could tag him again at $16mm.
Hes a Chief for 2 more years. At least.

[Eydugstr]

Houston isn't going any where for 2 more years. Even if we franchised him next year, he'd still be making less than what he is wanting. Next year's tag would be this year's price plus another 20%, approximately $16mm. He's reportedly asking for $20mm. If we force him to play under the tag this year and next, it costs the Chiefs approximately $30mm total. There is no hurry to get a deal done by anyone other than Houston's agent. If Houston has a subpar season this year or next, his price tag will come down. He's coming off a 20 sack season so He wants a contract done now. There haven't been many 20 sack seasons in nfl history. The chances of him doing it again this year aren't great. And even if he did, we could tag him again at $16mm.
Hes a Chief for 2 more years. At least.

This does make sense, but my question is this...Does that mean he can hold out 10 games next year, as well? Unless he figures out a way to get 4 sacks in the six remaining games he plays...Which don't get me wrong I'd love to see him get, but don't see it happening...

If jap1's link is correct, and those are the ballpark numbers the team has to come in with, even with next year's cap relief would we STILL have the $$'s? Keep in my Dontari Poe's contract is coming up and don't think for a second he'll be cheap, either.

[ctchiefsfan]

There are a couple misunderstandings regarding how the contracts affect our cap space here.

First, there is a difference between a signing bonus and guaranteed money. A signing bonus is exactly what it sounds like. When you sign the contract, you get a check for that much money immediately. The effect on the cap is spread out, though. So a $10 mil signing bonus on a 5 year contract means that it will affect the cap at the rate of $2 mil per year.

Thank you! I learned something new today so it's a good day!


Guaranteed money is not all paid up front. It is the money that he received as a signing bonus PLUS the other money guaranteed over the course of the contract. Thus number will vary every year, but he doesn't receive it all at once, unless he is cut. At that point, any money that was guaranteed and has not yet been paid becomes immediately due, and I believe all counts as dead money for this year. Sometimes a contract can be worth "$XXX mil" but have very little guaranteed because most of the money is tied up in bonuses based on performance, attending workouts, etc, etc. All the guaranteed money in a specific year goes against the salary cap. The non-guaranteed (bonus) money counts against the cap only if that performance condition is met. If he doesn't meet the requirement, or is cut, there is NO effect on the cap.

This part I knew.


Here is a link to Watt's contract including a year to year breakdown of the contract amounts and cap hits:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/j.j.-watt/

(I'm not sure why his cap hit/contract ed so low In the first year)

I just don't see why if what Houston really wants is a contract along the lines of what Watt got then why we can't seem to get it done. Seems to me we should be able to structure a contract like the one linked above and get rid of the distraction being caused by this whole thing. Structure the contract so that he get franchise tag money this year and next and bigger money later that cap increases would cover.

[jap1]

This does make sense, but my question is this...Does that mean he can hold out 10 games next year, as well? Unless he figures out a way to get 4 sacks in the six remaining games he plays...Which don't get me wrong I'd love to see him get, but don't see it happening...

If jap1's link is correct, and those are the ballpark numbers the team has to come in with, even with next year's cap relief would we STILL have the $$'s? Keep in my Dontari Poe's contract is coming up and don't think for a second he'll be cheap, either.

The contracts that are up next year are my concern. I wonder how much Houston's ability to get sacks is his own skill (which is undoubtedly a factor) and how much is the offense has to account for hali, Poe, et al. I don't want to sign Houston to a contract that ties our hands.

[Chiefs4life24]

Cause god knows Poe will want top 5 money

[ctchiefsfan]

The contracts that are up next year are my concern. I wonder how much Houston's ability to get sacks is his own skill (which is undoubtedly a factor) and how much is the offense has to account for hali, Poe, et al. I don't want to sign Houston to a contract that ties our hands.

That's a good point. I've said more than once that without Hali, Houston would not look half as good. It's a team game and you need multiple points of attack for the pass rush to be successful.