The state ofAlex Smith

[Frankenchief]

Alex, as evident in the first two preseason games, needs to pick it up. Usually at this time of the preseason offenses are behind defenses, but that's the only benefit of the doubt I am going to give him. I think stuff are happening in his head that are worrisome to me:

A) He has absolutely no trust in the O-line and loses concentration as a result.

B) The addition of Maclin and the new expectation of long balls (not his bread and butter) is putting a lot of pressure on him.

C) Both of the above.


D) It is preseason. a extra choice is needed here. (this was added by me tornadospotter)




I'm a bit concerned that he might revert back to his pre-Harbaugh years.

What do you think? A, B, or C?

[KCMASS]

I'm disappointed by in large. He tried to throw to JC to the right & Kelce had room on the left for a decent gain (1st drive) The interception was Alex's fault period. I'm not worried yet, but I need to see some real improvement.

[rodu]

it's the pre season...

[Chiefs4life24]

a for sure after the way the o-line performed tonight. I was definitely wrong about the line so far I mean my god the 1's didn't block worth a damn

[slc chief]

The o line is not playing g worth a crap. But it is in Alex's head now he looks as uncomfortable as it gets with reason. But he looks like David Carr back there and some of those sacks are on him

[ctchiefsfan]

I've been working for the first half of both pre-season games so my only knowledge of the 1s from these 2 games is what I read here, but from what I read here it sure seems like our first team O-line just ain't getting the job done. They surely didn't last year and I am starting to worry about this year.

[matthewschiefs]

Anther thing regarding Smith is that he has been a little more willing to take some chances. He has tried to fit some balls in there that I haven't seen him try before.

The Pick 6 was a bad choice that's one he should have just thrown away they were ready for it. You just have to be willing to move on

[Chiefs4life24]

majority of those sacks were on the o-line Peyton would've had no chance with some of those

[slc chief]

Peyton gets the ball out pretty quick. Yup most of those sacks are on the o line. Very worry some because that is not the easiest position to solitify. The fact are two starting tackles are out sucks continuity is key . Hopefully they can figure it out

[ctchiefsfan]

Anther thing regarding Smith is that he has been a little more willing to take some chances. He has tried to fit some balls in there that I haven't seen him try before.

I'm OK with that. It will mean more picks, but I am OK with that if it substantially increases his yards per completion.

Alex NEEDS to be pushed outside his "comfort zone". But all that means NOTHING if he has no time.

[brdempsey69]

It isn't the state of Alex Smith. It's the state of "pass-happy" play calling that concerns me the most.

[ctchiefsfan]

It isn't the state of Alex Smith. It's the state of "pass-happy" play calling that concerns me the most.

That is always a worry with Reid. Our Chiefs have almost always been a "run first" team and we fans tend to expect that, but looking at the stats from last nights game I am seeing 30 passing attempts and 29 rushing attempts. So overall the run vs. pass play distribution was pretty good especially considering JC had no carries. Clearly Reid is trying to protect Charles from the possibility of being injured in pre-season.

Alex had 18 pass attempts to Daniel's 12 attempts. So Smith passed more as a % of plays than Daniel. I'm inclined to believe that was more a matter of Reid trying to "push" Alex a bit rather than Reid going "pass happy". We have to remember that Reid plays his cards very close to the vest and is borderline paranoid about giving out information about his scheme during pre-season. He doesn't want teams learning much from studying film from the pre-season.

I think it goes without saying that there will be a game or two where Reid goes "pass happy" this season but I am not too worried about it in pre-season.

What worries me more is the O-line. But as you said, Fisher was out so the O-line was reshuffled. So maybe that will turn out OK. But "pending further review" I think that our single weakness now is O-line.

[Almighty chief]

if our oline keeps getting destroyed u can expect to throw alot especially if Charles is getting stuffed in the backfield. thats the only reason were forced to be pass happy.

[Stevie Ray]

majority of those sacks were on the o-line Peyton would've had no chance with some of those

Nonsense. Absolute rubbish!

Smith is a slow read, and gets happy feet. He false steps and flees the pocket unnecessarily. He holds the ball, takes his eyes off downfield, and looks for somewhere to run. No offensive line is going to look good playing in front of him. I'm sorry.

He is not taking any more pressure than any other QB. He just does not make quick enough decisions with the ball. It's the NFL, and the game is a little too fast for him at times. He's a backup QB looking for somewhere to happen. That's not "hate", that's my honest and objective evaluation of him in watching his skills play out over the entirety of his career.

[Stevie Ray]

Yup most of those sacks are on the o line. Very worry some because that is not the easiest position to solitify.

You want a prime example as to why Smith gets sacked so much? Take a look at the 2nd play of last night's game. If you have the game DVR'd, they showed an endzone shot of the play on the broadcast.

It was a playaction fake. Smith got time in the pocket, and Travis Kelce is wide open on a short flag route. Smith did not read the defense quickly enough, held onto the ball, and took a sack. That ball has to come out of his hands before Kelce breaks his route to the outside. If Smith lets that ball go on time, it's an easy 10 yard catch, and likely room to run after the catch.

But who looks bad on the surface? The offensive line. That's not on them, that's on the QB. Smith is simply a slow read. From a perception standpoint, his Oline will suffer. It's been that way his entire career.

[Chiefs4life24]

They Were in the backfield as soon as he snapped the ball MORON, you could not do any better for sure. You have major problems, their is not as not been any other QB for us to get that's worth a damn, Your narrow sightedness and inability too listen to anyone is why nobody wants you here

[Stevie Ray]

if our oline keeps getting destroyed u can expect to throw alot especially if Charles is getting stuffed in the backfield. thats the only reason were forced to be pass happy.

Already the offensive line is being used an excuse. Really? That has to get old at some point.

By the way, Stephenson is a better LT than Fisher. It's plain as day, at least to me. Reid won't make the switch because of what they have invested in Fisher.

[ctchiefsfan]

You want a prime example as to why Smith gets sacked so much? Take a look at the 2nd play of last night's game. If you have the game DVR'd, they showed an endzone shot of the play on the broadcast.

It was a playaction fake. Smith got time in the pocket, and Travis Kelce is wide open on a short flag route. Smith did not read the defense quickly enough, held onto the ball, and took a sack. That ball has to come out of his hands before Kelce breaks his route to the outside. If Smith lets that ball go on time, it's an easy 10 yard catch, and likely room to run after the catch.

But who looks bad on the surface? The offensive line. That's not on them, that's on the QB. Smith is simply a slow read. From a perception standpoint, his Oline will suffer. It's been that way his entire career.

For once you post an intelligent comment. I missed the game 'cause I was working and I don't own a TV. How about posting a vid of the play you just spoke of? I generally don't agree with your opinion of Alex, but others whose opinion I do respect made some comments after yesterdays game that were disturbingly similar to comments about Cassel during 2012.

Show me this play you spoke of and you may start to change my opinion of Alex.

[Chiefs4life24]

https://youtu.be/arXIyDrs7Uk

this I a highlight video CT sorry the only one I can find right now I will look for more, looks like it was on the o-line to me I counted to 2.5 - 3 on a couple of those and they were in the backfield

[ctchiefsfan]

Thanks C4l!!!!! I have to run to work now, but I'll watch it when I get back. Do you know if the above highlights film includes the play Billy-bob spoke of? Everybody knows I am NOT a Smith-hater, but Billy-bob for once made a comment that I am willing to pay attention to. I'm not dumb enough to think I know everything. If someone makes an intelligent comment that goes against what I believe I will pay attention to what they say....even Billy-bob. So I really want to see and analyze the play he spoke of so that I can form my own opinion.

[Chiefs4life24]

It does show a nice throw down the middle to Kelce

[brdempsey69]

For once you post an intelligent comment. I missed the game 'cause I was working and I don't own a TV. How about posting a vid of the play you just spoke of? I generally don't agree with your opinion of Alex, but others whose opinion I do respect made some comments after yesterdays game that were disturbingly similar to comments about Cassel during 2012.

Show me this play you spoke of and you may start to change my opinion of Alex.

That is not at all an accurate description of that play given by him, CT. Smith's first read was to look deep to the left on the play and then check down to Kelce, and Smith had 1 second in the pocket before the dam broke with pressure coming straight up the middle. His description of "time in the pocket" is pure bunk. The dam broke way too soon on that play. I counted exactly 1 second from the time Smith turned to look upfield before the pressure came. What Stephanie Rae Jean doesn't tell you is that play was one where Smith took the snap from under Center, not a shotgun snap. The pass protection has to hold up longer than what it did on a play like that, or any QB is going to get sacked. Another thing that he doesn't tell you is that Morse pulled to his right to the outside on the play and vacated the middle & they'd have been better served to have Morse stay at home in the middle on that play.

[matthewschiefs]

The Alex holds on to the ball to long has been something that is a legit criticism at times

But anyone who thinks the play of the o line was acceptable last night is just out of there mind.

That all being said IT'S PRESEASON folks

Raise your hand if you think when games matter a healthy Jamal Charles will get 0 carries and 3 touches total in 2 games. The fact is what we are seeing is NOT the offense we will see in the real season. So you have to take these things into account as well.

[brdempsey69]

Matt, if you look at the TD drive, the protection was fair on that drive. On the pass-play to Kelce, it was a 5 step drop with Smith taking the snap from under Center. The protection was good on that play and gave Smith time to find an open Kelce.

You are right, the O-Line play MUST improve or the Offense will struggle and of course people will put all the blame on Alex.

[matthewschiefs]

They had some good moments but overall is what I was talking about. That level of play can not happen it just can't. Not only the pass blocking but the run blocking was horrible. There was a time Davis had 3 guys around him as soon as he got the ball. that just can't happen

[Almighty chief]

They had some good moments but overall is what I was talking about. That level of play can not happen it just can't. Not only the pass blocking but the run blocking was horrible. There was a time Davis had 3 guys around him as soon as he got the ball. that just can't happen

^^ this. who u going to blame Stevie ray the RB?? games are won and lost at the line. i don't really read into this game seeing how both starters on the line were out, however the 1's held their own at times.

[doobs_05]

You want a prime example as to why Smith gets sacked so much? Take a look at the 2nd play of last night's game. If you have the game DVR'd, they showed an endzone shot of the play on the broadcast.

It was a playaction fake. Smith got time in the pocket, and Travis Kelce is wide open on a short flag route. Smith did not read the defense quickly enough, held onto the ball, and took a sack. That ball has to come out of his hands before Kelce breaks his route to the outside. If Smith lets that ball go on time, it's an easy 10 yard catch, and likely room to run after the catch.

But who looks bad on the surface? The offensive line. That's not on them, that's on the QB. Smith is simply a slow read. From a perception standpoint, his Oline will suffer. It's been that way his entire career.


That is not at all an accurate description of that play given by him, CT. Smith's first read was to look deep to the left on the play and then check down to Kelce, and Smith had 1 second in the pocket before the dam broke with pressure coming straight up the middle. His description of "time in the pocket" is pure bunk. The dam broke way too soon on that play. I counted exactly 1 second from the time Smith turned to look upfield before the pressure came. What Stephanie Rae Jean doesn't tell you is that play was one where Smith took the snap from under Center, not a shotgun snap. The pass protection has to hold up longer than what it did on a play like that, or any QB is going to get sacked. Another thing that he doesn't tell you is that Morse pulled to his right to the outside on the play and vacated the middle & they'd have been better served to have Morse stay at home in the middle on that play.

One guy that "is a smith hater" and one guy that is a "smith defender"

I guess one of you will have to post the play and show who is right

[brdempsey69]

One guy that "is a smith hater" and one guy that is a "smith defender"

I guess one of you will have to post the play and show who is right

Wrong assessment. It's not "defending Smith", as you say. It's an accurate description of the play and what went wrong. Smith's pick-six was a bad decision by Smith throwing into a crowded area & Smith would have been better served to throw it away or scramble on that play.

[JPPT1974]

It is about just trying to stay calm. And trying to just really not hurry for him.

[doobs_05]

Wrong assessment. It's not "defending Smith", as you say. It's an accurate description of the play and what went wrong. Smith's pick-six was a bad decision by Smith throwing into a crowded area & Smith would have been better served to throw it away or scramble on that play.

If it accurate, post a video stevie could say his an accurate description as well

[Stevie Ray]

They Were in the backfield as soon as he snapped the ball MORON

Pure, unadulterated, ignorance ...... or just flat out dishonesty. He was under center, playaction fake, setup in the pocket, surveyed the defense, held on to the ball with pressure coming right in his face, and took the sack. If he only had 1 second, he would barely even get the playaction fake off.

You're either delusional, know nothing about football, or both. I'm watching the play again right now as I type this.

I have nothing against Smith, other than the fact that y'all keep giving him ridiculous excuses. Smh.

[Stevie Ray]

That is not at all an accurate description of that play given by him, CT. Smith's first read was to look deep to the left on the play and then check down to Kelce, and Smith had 1 second in the pocket before the dam broke with pressure coming straight up the middle. I counted exactly 1 second from the time Smith turned to look upfield before the pressure came. What Stephanie Rae Jean doesn't tell you is that play was one where Smith took the snap from under Center, not a shotgun snap.

First of all, how would you know what Smith's 1st read is, or who he was supposed to check down to? Besides that, the progression is determined by pre and post snap reads of the defense. You take what the defense gives you, and they were giving him Kelce for what would've likely been a big play.

Secondly, you must've been counting very slow. I'm watching the play right now and I'm even putting a stopwatch on it. From the time the ball was snapped, to the time Smith was touched by a defender is 3.69 seconds. That's plenty of time in the NFL. The ball has to come out. Smith had time to make the fake, get back on his 5 step drop and set up. He even had time to bounce a couple of times and pat the ball.

Anybody that has the game, and a stopwatch, I challenge you to view it for yourself and tell me that I'm not reporting this accurately.

If you watch that play and blame the offensive line, then you don't understand NFL football like you think you do, and it's no wondering why you keep using the Oline as an excuse for mediocre QB play.

[Stevie Ray]

One guy that "is a smith hater" and one guy that is a "smith defender"

I guess one of you will have to post the play and show who is right

That's just it, I don't hate Smith. I hate when people make silly arguments and excuses for Smith.

There is nothing that would motivate me to wish bad on my team or my QB. I'm just giving what I feel is an objective analysis of what I see. It's not me vs. Smith. It's my evaluation of Smith vs. their evaluation of Smith.

The only "hating" going on, is them hating the fact that I don't think as much of Smith as they do.

[Stevie Ray]

The Alex holds on to the ball to long has been something that is a legit criticism at times But anyone who thinks the play of the o line was acceptable last night is just out of there mind.

In 10 years as a starting QB in the NFL, the play of the O line has NEVER been acceptable for Smith. Now either that's a huge coincidence, or I'm spot on in describing how/why Smith is a problem for the play of his O lines.

I explained exactly why his O lines have looked inadequate and continue to look inadequate.

Either way, we can't keep giving him excuses.

[Stevie Ray]

games are won and lost at the line.

Antiquated grid-iron cliche. There's some truth to it, but it's more or less just something you can say that sounds good. Makes it sound like you really understand football.

Games are won and lost by playmakers, or lackthereof, ....... on all 3 sides of the ball.

[Stevie Ray]

If it accurate, post a video stevie could say his an accurate description as well

I would post a video if I knew where to find one.

[matthewschiefs]

In 10 years as a starting QB in the NFL, the play of the O line has NEVER been acceptable for Smith. Now either that's a huge coincidence, or I'm spot on in describing how/why Smith is a problem for the play of his O lines.

I explained exactly why his O lines have looked inadequate and continue to look inadequate.

Either way, we can't keep giving him excuses.

But we can for the O line? We can keep saying well if we just get yet anther QB things will suddenly be better?

[brdempsey69]

But we can for the O line? We can keep saying well if we just get yet anther QB things will suddenly be better?

He's humping his neighbors dog. He blames Alex Smith for everything and stops there, as evidenced by his inaccurate description of that 1st sack last night.

[matthewschiefs]

He's humping his neighbors dog. He blames Alex Smith for everything and stops there, as evidenced by his inaccurate description of that 1st sack last night.

There's an old saying that the most popular guy in town is the backup QB.

Anther common saying is that a HC and QB get to much credit when things are going well and to much blame when things are going bad.

If the line was just bad in the passing game I think I could give SR's view more credit but they were also bad in the running game. So do we need to replace our RBs to?

The fact is we had a patched up O line in a preseason game. To get all see Smith just isn't good based on that in a preseason game is just silly IMO. You can call out Smith for the pick fine no problem that was on him. But to blame him and to ignore the level the line played at last night is not an unbiased view. Smith wasn't great last night no one claims he was. He showed improvment from game 1 and that's exactly what the preseason is for

[ctchiefsfan]

Pure, unadulterated, ignorance ...... or just flat out dishonesty. He was under center, playaction fake, setup in the pocket, surveyed the defense, held on to the ball with pressure coming right in his face, and took the sack. If he only had 1 second, he would barely even get the playaction fake off.

You're either delusional, know nothing about football, or both. I'm watching the play again right now as I type this.

I have nothing against Smith, other than the fact that y'all keep giving him ridiculous excuses. Smh.

Billy-bob.....That was uncalled for. Yes C4l should not have called you a moron. But you should have been man enough not to escalate. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?????? Are you still so young that you think you know everything? JEEZ!!! SMFH.

[ctchiefsfan]

I would post a video if I knew where to find one.

So it boils down to your word against others....all of whom saw the play. Guess what Billy-bob....I will believe them before I believe you because you have already proven what you are. Post up a vid and I'll watch it and draw my own conclusions....and if you are right I'll be the first to admit it. Some of the boys here will tell you that I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.

So post the vid or shut up.

[ctchiefsfan]

He's humping his neighbors dog. He blames Alex Smith for everything and stops there, as evidenced by his inaccurate description of that 1st sack last night.

Demps....I am sorry to disagree with you. I seldom do. But Billy-bob is not humping his neighbor's dog. He is pumping a knot in a pine tree 'cause that is about all he can get.

Again....sorry to disagree, but you were far too kind to Billy-bob.

HEY BILLY-bob......You told us to look at the play on DVR. Well post it up bucko!!! I've told you twice that if your version is true I will fess-up. I have no problem admitting if I am wrong. Old enough that being wrong doesn't hurt any more. But until you post a vid to back up your statement then you are just a bunch of hot air.

[Stevie Ray]

So it boils down to your word against others....all of whom saw the play. Guess what Billy-bob....I will believe them before I believe you because .....

.... because you'll believe what you want to believe for no other reason than you just want to believe it. Smh.

I couldn't care less whose word you choose to take. How about you take neither my word nor theirs? How about you find the game film, watch it for yourself, and come to your own conclusion? If you can't think for yourself, then shut up because you're useless to this part of the discussion. Please, sir, sit down.

[brdempsey69]

Billy-bob.....That was uncalled for. Yes C4l should not have called you a moron. But you should have been man enough not to escalate. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?????? Are you still so young that you think you know everything? JEEZ!!! SMFH.

Stephanie Rae Jean isn't being honest. I clearly said Alex had 1 second after he set up to look downfield & saw Mebane break free and come at him quickly. Alex didn't have a chance to scramble. Stephanie Rae Jean tries to sell us that Alex had more time than that when he didn't. Notice Stephanie Rae Jean didn't make any mention of Morse vacating the middle & pulling to the right which I pointed out earlier. Always the same paradox.........Stephanie Rae Jean blames Alex Smith and stops there.

Stephanie Rae Jean won't post a vid, because the visual evidence will refute what she is saying.

[Stevie Ray]

But we can for the O line? We can keep saying well if we just get yet anther QB things will suddenly be better?

The Oline isn't given any excuses. I refuse to give Smith the excuse of Oline. There's a difference.

Some of you are blaming the Oline where it doesn't apply. If Smith consistently needs more than 2.5 to 3 seconds to make a decision with the ball, he's going to get pressured, hit and sacked a bunch ........ and his Oline is going to look like sh** for it.

Inadequate Oline play has been the story of Smith's career. Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with him and his lack of pocket skills. Just maybe??

[matthewschiefs]

Chill pill guys it's just preseason lets not be jumping on each other already

[brdempsey69]

Chill pill guys it's just preseason lets not be jumping on each other already

Stephanie Rae Jean is on my ignore list. Let her urinate in the wind if she wants to. That all her assessments amount to. Notice she can't answer the germane points directly.

Blaming Alex Smith only for that sack on that play is pure bunk.

[Stevie Ray]

There's an old saying that the most popular guy in town is the backup QB.

Not in Denver, Boston, New Orleans, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indianapolis, Detroit, Atlanta, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Dallas, and San Diego.

Look, I was at the game last night and the boo birds were out on Smith. Ya'll can keep fighting all you want, but it won't be much longer before this all turns on Smith - just as it did with Cassel after a couple years in town. At some point, the excuses have to stop.

[matthewschiefs]

The Oline isn't given any excuses. I refuse to give Smith the excuse of Oline. There's a difference.

Some of you are blaming the Oline where it doesn't apply. If Smith consistently needs more than 2.5 to 3 seconds to make a decision with the ball, he's going to get pressured, hit and sacked a bunch ........ and his Oline is going to look like sh** for it.

Inadequate Oline play has been the story of Smith's career. Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with him and his lack of pocket skills. Just maybe??

The problem with the O line and the Chiefs has also been around in KC since Well before Smith got there. Really since the retirements of Will Shields and Willie Roaf. How is that anything to do with Smith? This problem was there before Smith. And again if it's Smith and not the O line why was the Running backs running from guys in our backfield all night? You have failed to even try to answer that. Reid said it after the game it was a make-shift line they struggled. It's not an "excuse" it's simply what happened

The issue people take with you is EVERY post you make is putting it on Smith. Maybe just maybe if you were willing to talk about the other issues just a bit without taking a shot at Smith that would help?

[Stevie Ray]

Billy-bob.....That was uncalled for. Yes C4l should not have called you a moron. But you should have been man enough not to escalate. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??????

LOL.

Guess I'm just secure enough in my own skin to hold an unpopular position. Oh well ......

[matthewschiefs]

Not in Denver, Boston, New Orleans, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indianapolis, Detroit, Atlanta, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Dallas, and San Diego.

Look, I was at the game last night and the boo birds were out on Smith. Ya'll can keep fighting all you want, but it won't be much longer before this all turns on Smith - just as it did with Cassel after a couple years in town. At some point, the excuses have to stop.

Actually there is a section of donkey fans wanting Manning gone after seeing his lackluster playoff games. so that's not 100% right

[Stevie Ray]

Actually there is a section of donkey fans wanting Manning gone after seeing his lackluster playoff games. so that's not 100% right

Is there ever 100% consensus on any player?

The cliche you quoted was that the backup QB is the most popular guy in town. A few knuckle-heads in Denver, or any other city, don't make that the case.

[Stevie Ray]

I've told you twice that if your version is true I will fess-up. I have no problem admitting if I am wrong.

Funny, but I'm not the only one making a claim about the play. Why don't you pressure the "1 second bunch" to post a video? Hmmmmm......

[brdempsey69]

The problem with the O line and the Chiefs has also been around in KC since Well before Smith got there. Really since the retirements of Will Shields and Willie Roaf. How is that anything to do with Smith? This problem was there before Smith. And again if it's Smith and not the O line why was the Running backs running from guys in our backfield all night? You have failed to even try to answer that. Reid said it after the game it was a make-shift line they struggled. It's not an "excuse" it's simply what happened

The issue people take with you is EVERY post you make is putting it on Smith. Maybe just maybe if you were willing to talk about the other issues just a bit without taking a shot at Smith that would help?

Notice that Stephanie Rae Jean said that we were blaming the O-Line "where it doesn't apply". It most certainly did on that 2nd play from scrimmage. LDT got beat by Mebane to the inside and broke free and Grubbs also got driven back on that play. Alex managed to escape Mebane's intial grasp around his waist, but Mebane was able to get Alex's ankle before he could scramble away.

[Stevie Ray]

Stephanie Rae Jean isn't being honest. I clearly said Alex had 1 second after he set up to look downfield & saw Mebane break free and come at him quickly. Alex didn't have a chance to scramble. Stephanie Rae Jean tries to sell us that Alex had more time than that when he didn't. Notice Stephanie Rae Jean didn't make any mention of Morse vacating the middle & pulling to the right which I pointed out earlier. Always the same paradox.........Stephanie Rae Jean blames Alex Smith and stops there.

Well, someone piggy backed off of your quote and claimed that the defense was on Smith 1 second after the ball was snapped.

So 1 second after he set up is your claim? Ok, so you're admitting that he had time to snap the ball, make a playaction fake, finish his 5 step drop and set up ... and then even a second more after that? How much more time do you think a QB should get in the NFL? By the time a QB runs a playaction fake, drops back and sets up, the ball needs to come out. Any more time than that is gravy.

Like I said, it was nearly 4 seconds between the time the ball was snapped to the time that Smith was touched. I don't care what play is called, if the QB doesn't get rid of the ball in that amount of time, defenders are going to be on top of him. It's not high school football. It's the NFL.

[matthewschiefs]

Is there ever 100% consensus on any player?

The cliche you quoted was that the backup QB is the most popular guy in town. A few knuckle-heads in Denver, or any other city, don't make that the case.

I doubt any player has 100% approval

But I think it's more then a "few knuckle heads" though most disagree with them there still is a fair amount that question staying with Manning given his age and stuff.

[Stevie Ray]

Stephanie Rae Jean is on my ignore list.

LOL, kids ....... who invented 'em?

Next he'll stick an index finger in each ear, poke his tongue out and hum, "nan-nanna-boo-boo."

There have to be better ways to handle a disagreement. Smh.

[brdempsey69]

Hey Matt, one more thing. On the completion to Kelce, the Seattle commentators noted that Smith had time in the pocket "for one of the first times".

As mentioned before, none of us gave Alex a pass on the pick-six, as that was squarely on him. Stephanie Rae Jean thinks we are employing fanboism, but can't discern fanboism from objective and rationale observation.

[Stevie Ray]

I doubt any player has 100% approval

But I think it's more then a "few knuckle heads" though most disagree with them there still is a fair amount that question staying with Manning given his age and stuff.

But Manning is still the most popular guy in town, not the back-up. That's my point.

Anyway, I do appreciate you at least being mature and dealing with our differences like an adult. We don't have to agree to have an intelligent conversation.

If you, or anyone else, sees that 2nd play of the game as the fault of the Offensive line, then it's no surprise why we don't see eye to eye on Smith, or NFL quarterbacking in general. I'm sorry, that play is not on the offensive line. NFL defenses are too fast, and too good, to expect an offensive line to hold up longer than 3 seconds after the ball is snapped.

[ctchiefsfan]

.... because you'll believe what you want to believe for no other reason than you just want to believe it. Smh.

I couldn't care less whose word you choose to take. How about you take neither my word nor theirs? How about you find the game film, watch it for yourself, and come to your own conclusion? If you can't think for yourself, then shut up because you're useless to this part of the discussion. Please, sir, sit down.

You made the claim bucky-boy. I've said I will give serious attention if you provide vid. And I ain't BSing you. Back your claims and I will listen and if you are right I WILL 'FESS RIGHT UP. Everybody here will tell you that I admit when I am wrong. Post the vid to back your claims but until you do you are just a damned troll.

[ctchiefsfan]

.... because you'll believe what you want to believe for no other reason than you just want to believe it. Smh.

I couldn't care less whose word you choose to take. How about you take neither my word nor theirs? How about you find the game film, watch it for yourself, and come to your own conclusion? If you can't think for yourself, then shut up because you're useless to this part of the discussion. Please, sir, sit down.

It was YOUR CLAIM. YOU need to back it up with vid. Stop being a lazy POS and back your claims with video facts. If you don't then I'll know you are just another troll.

[matthewschiefs]

Hey Matt, one more thing. On the completion to Kelce, the Seattle commentators noted that Smith had time in the pocket "for one of the first times".

As mentioned before, none of us gave Alex a pass on the pick-six, as that was squarely on him. Stephanie Rae Jean thinks we are employing fanboism, but can't discern fanboism from objective and rationale observation.

I didn't see the game from the seahawks feed just KCs so I can't speak to what there annoncers said. If memory serves on the main play in question here the one sack Trent Green did note that Kelice was open but I can't say my memory is 100%

What I do no is during the game my wife at one point legit asked if " the guys suppose to be protecting the QB dont like him" Now the wife isn't one who I would quote for football talk but it does say something I think

[ctchiefsfan]

.... because you'll believe what you want to believe for no other reason than you just want to believe it. Smh.

I couldn't care less whose word you choose to take. How about you take neither my word nor theirs? How about you find the game film, watch it for yourself, and come to your own conclusion? If you can't think for yourself, then shut up because you're useless to this part of the discussion. Please, sir, sit down.

Selective quoting....PANSY.

[matthewschiefs]

But Manning is still the most popular guy in town, not the back-up. That's my point.

Anyway, I do appreciate you at least being mature and dealing with our differences like an adult. We don't have to agree to have an intelligent conversation.

If you, or anyone else, sees that 2nd play of the game as the fault of the Offensive line, then it's no surprise why we don't see eye to eye on Smith, or NFL quarterbacking in general. I'm sorry, that play is not on the offensive line. NFL defenses are too fast, and too good, to expect an offensive line to hold up longer than 3 seconds after the ball is snapped.

True I guess

I have had many go arounds with many guys on here who were "unpopular" Hell I'm still in contact with the one I think was the most disliked person on the board.I'm not hard to have a conversation with

My advice to you (you can chose to listen or not) as someone who is on a board with those unpopular opinions is to tone it down a bit on this topic. Be willing to discuss other things not QB driven. I think you wouldn't get as much heat for when you do talk about the QB that way. Just a thought

[matthewschiefs]

Selective quoting....PANSY.


Chill out there a bit don't get yourself in trouble there CT If he's getting to you that much then you might just want to take the option to walk away from the conversation.

[brdempsey69]

I didn't see the game from the seahawks feed just KCs so I can't speak to what there annoncers said. If memory serves on the main play in question here the one sack Trent Green did note that Kelice was open but I can't say my memory is 100%

What I do no is during the game my wife at one point legit asked if " the guys suppose to be protecting the QB dont like him" Now the wife isn't one who I would quote for football talk but it does say something I think

Len Dawson said that Smith "had no chance" on that play -- because he didn't!! That contradicts Stephanie Rae Jean's of "If you, or anyone else, sees that 2nd play of the game as the fault of the Offensive line, then it's no surprise why we don't see eye to eye on Smith, or NFL quarterbacking in general. I'm sorry, that play is not on the offensive line." Kendall Gammon also said it was on the O-Line. Funny how multiple others do see that play as the fault of the O-Line, but Stephanie Rae Jean doesn't and only blames Smith.

[ctchiefsfan]

Stephanie Rae Jean isn't being honest. I clearly said Alex had 1 second after he set up to look downfield & saw Mebane break free and come at him quickly. Alex didn't have a chance to scramble. Stephanie Rae Jean tries to sell us that Alex had more time than that when he didn't. Notice Stephanie Rae Jean didn't make any mention of Morse vacating the middle & pulling to the right which I pointed out earlier. Always the same paradox.........Stephanie Rae Jean blames Alex Smith and stops there.

Stephanie Rae Jean won't post a vid, because the visual evidence will refute what she is saying.

'Cause he is a pansy. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Billy-bob can post video evidence of his claims I WILL GIVE IT A FAIR HEARING. I am NOT in love with Alex as our QB. But simple dumbass opinions don't impress me. Especially not from Billy-bob. If Billy-bob can back his opinions with vid I will listen and be fair. HELL....he might even turn me into a Smith-Hater. And that is no ship. I am not much happy with Alex. But Billy-bob has clearly identifies himself as a no-brain Smith-Hater....and y'know....that just doesn't impress me. If Billy-bob wants me to have any respect for his opinions he will have to give me some decent evidence. Untill he does he is IMO just a troll.

[Frankenchief]

HEY BILLY-bob......You told us to look at the play on DVR. Well post it up bucko!!! I've told you twice that if your version is true I will fess-up. I have no problem admitting if I am wrong. Old enough that being wrong doesn't hurt any more. But until you post a vid to back up your statement then you are just a bunch of hot air.
ctchiefsfan, this is awkward for me because I generally like your takes and I certainly have had my share of differences with Stevie Ray (another forum). But I have to tell you, bro, your demand is a bit unfair. Not everybody can post a segment of a broadcast in here. Hell, I can't! I'm sure there are apps to do it with but most people, including I, are unable to procure and use them. :smile

[Stevie Ray]

I've said I will give serious attention if you provide vid.

LOL your serious attention isn't necessary, but it's cool that you were concerned. Thank you, and good night, sir.

[Stevie Ray]

What I do no is during the game my wife at one point legit asked if " the guys suppose to be protecting the QB dont like him" Now the wife isn't one who I would quote for football talk but it does say something I think

Funny, I've heard the same thing from my girlfriend. She tries, she really does. Bless her heart. lol

[brdempsey69]

'Cause he is a pansy. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Billy-bob can post video evidence of his claims I WILL GIVE IT A FAIR HEARING. I am NOT in love with Alex as our QB. But simple dumbass opinions don't impress me. Especially not from Billy-bob. If Billy-bob can back his opinions with vid I will listen and be fair. HELL....he might even turn me into a Smith-Hater. And that is no ship. I am not much happy with Alex. But Billy-bob has clearly identifies himself as a no-brain Smith-Hater....and y'know....that just doesn't impress me. If Billy-bob wants me to have any respect for his opinions he will have to give me some decent evidence. Untill he does he is IMO just a troll.

See my above post. Both Len Dawson and Kendall Gammon called out the O-Line on that play, and yet Stephanie Rae Jean tries to sell us:


"If you, or anyone else, sees that 2nd play of the game as the fault of the Offensive line, then it's no surprise why we don't see eye to eye on Smith, or NFL quarterbacking in general. I'm sorry, that play is not on the offensive line."

Stephanie Rae Jean is both sorry and WRONG!! That play WAS clearly on the O-Line. Stephanie Rae Jean is being blatantly and stupidly BLIND!! I gave a detailed description of LDT getting beat to the inside by Mebane and that Morse had vacated the middle and pulled out to the right, which Stephanie Rae Jean hasn't accounted for, as of yet.

[Stevie Ray]

My advice to you (you can chose to listen or not) as someone who is on a board with those unpopular opinions is to tone it down a bit on this topic. Be willing to discuss other things not QB driven. I think you wouldn't get as much heat for when you do talk about the QB that way. Just a thought

Thanks for the advice, but I don't mind the heat. I've talked about other things, Chiefs, and even football related in general. There's no pushback with those topics, so the conversations don't really last.

Whether people care to admit it or not, there is no more interesting or intriguing conversation than the QB - and rightfully so. I don't see any reason to shy away from it - not even a little bit.

I think most of the disagreement on Smith is more a fundamental disagreement about football at the NFL level in general. For instance -- some might not think that 3 seconds after the snap of the ball is not adequate time for an NFL QB. I'd have to disagree with them. Anything over 3 seconds is an eternity (figuratively speaking).

[brdempsey69]

Hey Dougster, are you enjoying watching Stephanie Rae Jean whine like a little girl that crapped in her diaper because she got her Baby-Pat-A-Burp doll taken from her or something?

Stephanie Rae Jean knows that my assessment of that 2nd play where Alex got sacked is correct and can't refute the germane points. Stephanie Rae Jean didn't think anybody would refute her incorrect assessment of that play.

[Stevie Ray]

ctchiefsfan, this is awkward for me because I generally like your takes and I certainly have had my share of differences with Stevie Ray (another forum). But I have to tell you, bro, your demand is a bit unfair. Not everybody can post a segment of a broadcast in here. Hell, I can't! I'm sure there are apps to do it with but most people, including I, are unable to procure and use them. :smile

Trust me, if I could take it from my DVR and place it here, it would've been posted already. It's a flaw in Smith's game that has been apparent for years. It also exposes a clear lack of football acumen on the part of some who talk so boldly on the topic.

At the same time, I've learned more about why there is so much disagreement on the subject of the QB.

By the way, what other board are you referring to? Or is that a secret? lol

[Eydugstr]

Len Dawson said that Smith "had no chance" on that play -- because he didn't!! That contradicts Stephanie Rae Jean's of "If you, or anyone else, sees that 2nd play of the game as the fault of the Offensive line, then it's no surprise why we don't see eye to eye on Smith, or NFL quarterbacking in general. I'm sorry, that play is not on the offensive line." Kendall Gammon also said it was on the O-Line. Funny how multiple others do see that play as the fault of the O-Line, but Stephanie Rae Jean doesn't and only blames Smith.

Not only did Len Dawson say it, but Trent Green also said Smith had no outlet on the play. I did DVR it, finally had a chance to go through it and have watched the two opening plays over and over.

First off, Alex took a blow to the head on the previous play which was acknowledged by the ref with a 15 yard penalty. While it wasn't bad enough to make the refs call for concussion protocol, you can clearly see Alex trying to get his bearings together.

It does take about 4 seconds for Alex to plant his feet. Just before he's ready, he's sacked. But the reason why it falls on the O-line is this: Watch what happens with the center, #61. He runs off to the right, finds he has nobody to block, then tries to double back (by which time against the Seahawks' D-line it's too late.) If you look at the replay it's also possible the Seahawks D-lineman watched where #61 was going and broke to the outside of the LG, knowing that there was nobody else there to block him on that left side.

Kelce will get touted as the option, but by that time the Seahawks D-lineman was right in the throwing lane and could've batted it down or worse.

[Eydugstr]

Hey Dougster, are you enjoying watching Stephanie Rae Jean whine like a little girl that crapped in her diaper because she got her Baby-Pat-A-Burp doll taken from her or something?

Stephanie Rae Jean knows that my assessment of that 2nd play where Alex got sacked is correct and can't refute the germane points. Stephanie Rae Jean didn't think anybody would refute her incorrect assessment of that play.

Yep I'm taking this all in with great interest. You still have NFL rewind, correct? Double check my last post, if I'm wrong or missed something let me know.

[Chiefs4life24]

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/Chiefs-vs-Seahawks-10-Observations/fa4e477f-82a3-41bc-85e2-e22e16b17dd1

[brdempsey69]

Not only did Len Dawson say it, but Trent Green also said Smith had no outlet on the play. I did DVR it, finally had a chance to go through it and have watched the two opening plays over and over.

First off, Alex took a blow to the head on the previous play which was acknowledged by the ref with a 15 yard penalty. While it wasn't bad enough to make the refs call for concussion protocol, you can clearly see Alex trying to get his bearings together.

It does take about 4 seconds for Alex to plant his feet. Just before he's ready, he's sacked. But the reason why it falls on the O-line is this: Watch what happens with the center, #61. He runs off to the right, finds he has nobody to block, then tries to double back (by which time against the Seahawks' D-line it's too late.) If you look at the replay it's also possible the Seahawks D-lineman watched where #61 was going and broke to the outside of the LG, knowing that there was nobody else there to block him on that left side.

Kelce will get touted as the option, but by that time the Seahawks D-lineman was right in the throwing lane and could've batted it down or worse.

Great and correct assessment, Dougster & yes, I still have my full NFL Gamepass subscription. What you pointed out about Morse pulling out to the right is what I pointed out also right from the get-go & Stephanie Rae Jean still hasn't given any account for that, but instead tries to sell us:


"If you, or anyone else, sees that 2nd play of the game as the fault of the Offensive line, then it's no surprise why we don't see eye to eye on Smith, or NFL quarterbacking in general. I'm sorry, that play is not on the offensive line."

And right there, Stephanie Rae Jean destroys her own credibility.

[ctchiefsfan]

ctchiefsfan, this is awkward for me because I generally like your takes and I certainly have had my share of differences with Stevie Ray (another forum). But I have to tell you, bro, your demand is a bit unfair. Not everybody can post a segment of a broadcast in here. Hell, I can't! I'm sure there are apps to do it with but most people, including I, are unable to procure and use them. :smile

Frankenchief......

I couldn't either. HELL!!!! I'm too damned "tech-dumb" to use a smart phone. But my point is this....Billy-bob made a statement and challenged us all to use our DVR to see proof.

I told him I don't own a TV and told him to back his claims with the vid he wanted us to watch.

I'm pretty frustrated with Alex right now and if Billy-bob would back his claims I WOULD LISTEN CAREFULLY.

But Billy-bob made his claims based on a vid that he can't or won't show us. So it all comes down to his opinion and others opinions. I am willing to listen to Billy-bob, but until he provides some sort of EVIDENCE for his video claims then I'll trust the guys (like you) that are here day in and day out before I trust him.

As far as I am concerned Billy-bob is a UDFA with a bigger head than "Johnny Football".

I hope I haven't offended you. Between some bad ship at work tonight and Billy-bob I am just about wore to my last nerve.

[brdempsey69]

Frankenchief......

I couldn't either. HELL!!!! I'm too damned "tech-dumb" to use a smart phone. But my point is this....Billy-bob made a statement and challenged us all to use our DVR to see proof.

I told him I don't own a TV and told him to back his claims with the vid he wanted us to watch.

I'm pretty frustrated with Alex right now and if Billy-bob would back his claims I WOULD LISTEN CAREFULLY.

But Billy-bob made his claims based on a vid that he can't or won't show us. So it all comes down to his opinion and others opinions. I am willing to listen to Billy-bob, but until he provides some sort of EVIDENCE for his video claims then I'll trust the guys (like you) that are here day in and day out before I trust him.

As far as I am concerned Billy-bob is a UDFA with a bigger head than "Johnny Football".

You can trust Dougster's and my assessments. If you read my posts and Stephanie Rae Jean's posts closely you will see the points Dougster and I made about that play that Stephanie Rae Jean doesn't give due accounting for. Blaming Alex Smith alone for that sack on that 2nd play, like Stephanie Rae Jean does, is a farce, and which Stephanie Rae Jean does based on dishonest spinnings and omissions.

[Frankenchief]

By the way, what other board are you referring to? Or is that a secret? lolThere's a Stevie Ray on Chiefs Planet. How many of you can there be?

[Stevie Ray]

Not only did Len Dawson say it, but Trent Green also said Smith had no outlet on the play.

Green is referring to routes, as in there is no short route for Smith to dump off to. He's saying that everyone is running deeper patterns and the Chiefs were looking to push the ball up the field. He's not saying that Smith didn't have an outlet as if he didn't have anywhere to go with the ball. Just for clarification.


It does take about 4 seconds for Alex to plant his feet. Just before he's ready, he's sacked.

He planted his feet and should've gotten rid of the ball before 4 seconds, but yes, it was about 4 seconds from the snap of the ball to the point he was sacked - just as I posted. Someone said that he was sacked 1 second after the ball was snapped. Hmmm ....

[Frankenchief]

Frankenchief......

I couldn't either. HELL!!!! I'm too damned "tech-dumb" to use a smart phone. But my point is this....Billy-bob made a statement and challenged us all to use our DVR to see proof.

......

I hope I haven't offended you. Between some bad ship at work tonight and Billy-bob I am just about wore to my last nerve.LOL. No I wasn't offended. Why would I be? I just wish I knew of a software that I could use to isolate a short video segment from a longer one.

ANYONE?!!!

[Eydugstr]

There's a Stevie Ray on Chiefs Planet. How many of you can there be?

There's actually two Stevie Rays on Chiefs Planet, one "Stevie Ray" and another "Stevieray". The first barely has any posts and the other has well over 39 thousand.

[Stevie Ray]

There's a Stevie Ray on Chiefs Planet. How many of you can there be?

I signed up on Chiefs Planet several years ago, but I don't think I've ever posted there. Certainly not much if I have.

[Stevie Ray]

But the reason why it falls on the O-line is this: Watch what happens with the center, #61. He runs off to the right, finds he has nobody to block, then tries to double back (by which time against the Seahawks' D-line it's too late.)

That's because Morse (#61) reads overload to the right side and knows the TE (Oshaunessy - sp?) is isolated 1 on 1 with the DE. The guy that is lost on the play is #74. He has no one to block because the man he was responsible for faked the blitz and then dropped back into coverage. #61 did exactly as he should on the play.

We can credit Seattle with a good defensive playcall, but at the same time, Smith has to read the defense and get the ball out of his hand. He had time and Kelce was open. Of course on the surface it just looks bad for the Oline, but if that's Manning, Brady, Brees, or any QB with solid pocket skills, that's a big play instead of a sack. A QB with good pocket skills makes the defense pay on that play.


Kelce will get touted as the option, but by that time the Seahawks D-lineman was right in the throwing lane and could've batted it down or worse.

Not if Smith makes the right read and delivers the ball on time right after the last step of his drop. He had a moment of indecision, and in the NFL, that's all it takes. It's the difference between positive gains and trouble.

Anyway, I'm glad that you have the game recorded. I enjoy doing film study and analysis.

[ctchiefsfan]

See my above post. Both Len Dawson and Kendall Gammon called out the O-Line on that play, and yet Stephanie Rae Jean tries to sell us:



Stephanie Rae Jean is both sorry and WRONG!! That play WAS clearly on the O-Line. Stephanie Rae Jean is being blatantly and stupidly BLIND!! I gave a detailed description of LDT getting beat to the inside by Mebane and that Morse had vacated the middle and pulled out to the right, which Stephanie Rae Jean hasn't accounted for, as of yet.

Demps.....

You know me. If I am wrong, I will fess up. Billy-bob made a claim about a specific play and challenged us all to check our DVR. I don't have one, so I challenged him to post up the vid he referenced. He hasn't. So it boiled down to it's just his opinion....And you know something....I've been here maybe 4 or 5 years talking to guys like you and the other "regulars" and I've learned a lot from y'all. I know more about football than I did when I first signed up here. If Billy-bob wants me to believe him he's going to have to show some proof....especially the video proof he said we all should have.

NO SIR! I don't trust Billy-bob worth a damn. He is a troll, liar and puff artist. But I am frustrated with Alex and if Billy-bob can show us some real facts on video then I'll listen to him with an open mind....'cause y'know I don't know everything like I did when I was in my 20s and 30s.

[Stevie Ray]

Great and correct assessment, Dougster & yes, I still have my full NFL Gamepass subscription. What you pointed out about Morse pulling out to the right is what I pointed out also right from the get-go & Stephanie Rae Jean still hasn't given any account for that, but instead tries to sell us:

Lol you're clueless, and trying way too hard.

Are you seriously this discombobulated over the idea that I think less of Smith than you do. Geeez, have a snickers.

[Frankenchief]

brdempsey69, I mostly agree with your assessment. But we can't redirect ALL of the blame from Alex either. If, as Dougster pointed out, there was 4 seconds time for him he should have at least thrown away the ball. Now when I remember that play it seems there was a rather immediate avalanche of defenders burying Alex, but I'll take Dougsters word for it. I can only hope Alex's lack of judgement was because of the daze from the previous play.

[Frankenchief]

There's actually two Stevie Rays on Chiefs Planet, one "Stevie Ray" and another "Stevieray". The first barely has any posts and the other has well over 39 thousand.
My bad then. I stand corrected. The other Stevieray and I have had some doozies. :D

[Stevie Ray]

brdempsey69, I mostly agree with your assessment. But we can't redirect ALL of the blame from Alex either. If, as Dougster pointed out, there was 4 seconds time for him he should have at least thrown away the ball. Now when I remember that play it seems there was a rather immediate avalanche of defenders burying Alex, but I'll take Dougsters word for it. I can only hope Alex's lack of judgement was because of the daze from the previous play.

If anybody thinks that an Oline is supposed to hold up for 4 seconds, then they damn sure have lofty expectations.

It will always look bad on the Oline when the QB isn't able to do what he wants to from the pocket. The problem is that Smith is a slow read and it takes him too long to make a decision with the ball. This is why his Oline's have looked like crap over the entirety of his career.

If it took Hali, Houston and the Chiefs pass rush 4 seconds to get to the QB, we'd all be complaining about how bad the Chiefs pass rush is.

Smith is generally afforded adequate time, but the game just moves too fast for him at times.

[matthewschiefs]

You guys are arguing over a play that in 3 weeks who's going to care about it?

It's preseason. I've made a thread addressing what Preseason is all about. It's working through isssues getting some in game reps and getting a look in game at some young guys. The play that is being debated in the grand scheme of things is meaningless. When/if it happens in a real game then I can understand the debate about it. But now we are making a bit to much of it

[ctchiefsfan]

You can trust Dougster's and my assessments. If you read my posts and Stephanie Rae Jean's posts closely you will see the points Dougster and I made about that play that Stephanie Rae Jean doesn't give due accounting for. Blaming Alex Smith alone for that sack on that 2nd play, like Stephanie Rae Jean does, is a farce, and which Stephanie Rae Jean does based on dishonest spinnings and omissions.

Demps....You know I trust you guys. I've learned A LOT about football from you guys. Y'all have made me a better and more knowledgeable Chiefs fan. But Billy-bob made a claim and said film would back it up. If he can post the vid I'll watch it.....many times.... He made the claim....it's time for him to "put up or shut up".

[Stevie Ray]

You guys are arguing over a play that in 3 weeks who's going to care about it?

In that regard, I agree.

At the same time, this one play is a microcosm of the entire issue regarding Smith, the O line, WRs and the offense as a whole.

I'm not here to get anyone to see things the way I do, but I do believe that I do a more thorough analysis than the average fan. I'm not posting BS just to hate or just for the sake of posting.

[brdempsey69]

brdempsey69, I mostly agree with your assessment. But we can't redirect ALL of the blame from Alex either. If, as Dougster pointed out, there was 4 seconds time for him he should have at least thrown away the ball. Now when I remember that play it seems there was a rather immediate avalanche of defenders burying Alex, but I'll take Dougsters word for it. I can only hope Alex's lack of judgement was because of the daze from the previous play.

That's not what Dougster is saying regarding "4 seconds of time" as far as Alex setting his feet and looking down downfield. Dougster said "It does take about 4 seconds for Alex to plant his feet" -- meaning executing the play-fake and then turning around and looking downfield. That 4 seconds Dougster is referring has Alex's back to the Defense, for the most part. Alex had barely over a second to look downfield & he tried to scramble, but Mebane made a good play getting him around the ankles. I'd personally rather have Alex try to scramble and gain positive yards, rather than simply just throw the ball away for which he would have got called for intentional grounding, as he was not outside the pocket.


Demps....You know I trust you guys. I've learned A LOT about football from you guys. Y'all have made me a better and more knowledgeable Chiefs fan. But Billy-bob made a claim and said film would back it up. If he can post the vid I'll watch it.....many times.... He made the claim....it's time for him to "put up or shut up".

If such a video is posted, you will see evidence backing up what Dougster & I have pointed out, and doesn't back up what Stephanie Rae Jean is saying about that play.

[jap1]

I didn't watch the game, but there was enough discussion that I tried to find a video. I THINK the play everyone is referencing is at 1:40 on this video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000514260/Seahawks-vs-Chiefs-highlights

From my analysis, there is plenty of blame to go around for that play.

Alex does have nearly four seconds from snap to when he gets hit. However, it was a delayed play action to JC. The problem is I believe the play was designed for the LG to pull and pick up the DE that runs free at Alex. The LG was too slow to get to his man (he had no chance). Additionally, the DL ran a stunt and a delayed LB blitz, leaving the RT with two guys to block, and whiffing on both.

Alex starts off the play with his back to the OL, and by the time he turns around he has what to me looks like nearly two seconds with his head forward where he would be able to read the field and react. As Stevie says, he has enough time to pat the ball once. If Alex was an elite QB, he may have recognized that his OL was about to get beat, and thrown it either away or to an open man (I cannot verify if anyone was open when Alex brought his head around). Alex isn't an elite QB. Would someone like Phyllis Rivers (not elite, but top tier) have made that play, maybe, maybe not. Would it be reasonable to expect a Manning or Rodgers to make that play into a gain, probably.

I think you can blame the OL for not recognizing the stunt (this has been a weakness of ours for awhile). You can also give credit out the defensive coach for picking the right play at the right time. At the same time, if this were a real game, they may have been expecting a stunt and reacted to it better. Remember, in the preseason, it is more about practicing our own plays than game planning what they think will work against the specific team's tendencies.

If the LG was faster and picked up his man, JC would have finished his play action, possibly slowing down the LB and the stuntman, giving Alex more time. If JC finished his fake, he may have been able to pick up one of the guys that went free, giving Alex another split second. Of the RT had made a solid block on one of the guys, Alex may have had more time.

If Alex were elite, he would have recognized the blitz and breakdown faster, and probably gotten rid of it sooner to an open man (if there was one). But Alex isn't elite. He has been the best that has been available for a long time without selling the farm.

So in short, yes, Alex can be to blame IN ADDITION to the OL, as well as the play calling and bad luck on what the D called.

Im not Alex lover, but he is the best we can get. If anyone thinks Chase Daniel can do better, you need to watch him much more closely. His reads take longer, and his arm is not nearly as strong as Alex's in my opinion. That is a very dangerous combo for a starting QB, and will get him eaten alive. Even if the competition was opened up, it wouldn't last very long in my opinion.

If a better QB option shows up, that doesn't require us to trade away our whole team/draft picks, the I will entertain the option. Until then, I'm going to support Smith and try to put as many tools around him as I can (if I were the GM). Right now, the big question mark is if he needs some more "tools" in front of him, or are our starters good enough?

[Eydugstr]

My bad then. I stand corrected. The other Stevieray and I have had some doozies. :D

LOL, no bad percieved at all on this end, Frankenchief. Glad you're on CC.

[brdempsey69]

I didn't watch the game, but there was enough discussion that I tried to find a video. I THINK the play everyone is referencing is at 1:40 on this video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000514260/Seahawks-vs-Chiefs-highlights



Sorry jap, but that vid does NOT contain the play that we are referring to. That vid showed the 1st play from scrimmage at 1:40, not the play that followed.

[matthewschiefs]

I didn't watch the game, but there was enough discussion that I tried to find a video. I THINK the play everyone is referencing is at 1:40 on this video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000514260/Seahawks-vs-Chiefs-highlights

From my analysis, there is plenty of blame to go around for that play.

Alex does have nearly four seconds from snap to when he gets hit. However, it was a delayed play action to JC. The problem is I believe the play was designed for the LG to pull and pick up the DE that runs free at Alex. The LG was too slow to get to his man (he had no chance). Additionally, the DL ran a stunt and a delayed LB blitz, leaving the RT with two guys to block, and whiffing on both.

Alex starts off the play with his back to the OL, and by the time he turns around he has what to me looks like nearly two seconds with his head forward where he would be able to read the field and react. As Stevie says, he has enough time to pat the ball once. If Alex was an elite QB, he may have recognized that his OL was about to get beat, and thrown it either away or to an open man (I cannot verify if anyone was open when Alex brought his head around). Alex isn't an elite QB. Would someone like Phyllis Rivers (not elite, but top tier) have made that play, maybe, maybe not. Would it be reasonable to expect a Manning or Rodgers to make that play into a gain, probably.

I think you can blame the OL for not recognizing the stunt (this has been a weakness of ours for awhile). You can also give credit out the defensive coach for picking the right play at the right time. At the same time, if this were a real game, they may have been expecting a stunt and reacted to it better. Remember, in the preseason, it is more about practicing our own plays than game planning what they think will work against the specific team's tendencies.

If the LG was faster and picked up his man, JC would have finished his play action, possibly slowing down the LB and the stuntman, giving Alex more time. If JC finished his fake, he may have been able to pick up one of the guys that went free, giving Alex another split second. Of the RT had made a solid block on one of the guys, Alex may have had more time.

If Alex were elite, he would have recognized the blitz and breakdown faster, and probably gotten rid of it sooner to an open man (if there was one). But Alex isn't elite. He has been the best that has been available for a long time without selling the farm.

So in short, yes, Alex can be to blame IN ADDITION to the OL, as well as the play calling and bad luck on what the D called.

Im not Alex lover, but he is the best we can get. If anyone thinks Chase Daniel can do better, you need to watch him much more closely. His reads take longer, and his arm is not nearly as strong as Alex's in my opinion. That is a very dangerous combo for a starting QB, and will get him eaten alive. Even if the competition was opened up, it wouldn't last very long in my opinion.

If a better QB option shows up, that doesn't require us to trade away our whole team/draft picks, the I will entertain the option. Until then, I'm going to support Smith and try to put as many tools around him as I can (if I were the GM). Right now, the big question mark is if he needs some more "tools" in front of him, or are our starters good enough?

I don't think that's the play that's being talked about the play that is being discussed Smith was sacked on.

Though watching that play it was damn close to hitting Wilson there just overthrown by a couple of yards but there also was a defender there so most likely wouldn't have been caught anyway

[jap1]

I'm guessing then this is the correct video. It is the only angle I could find:

http://www.seahawks.com/video/2015/08/22/raible-call-brandon-mebane-belly-roll

It doesn't really shed too much light on the blocking and whether the OL was a sieve, but it doesn't give you a chance to see how much time Smith had in the pocket. He has (by my stopwatch measurement) 3.86 seconds from snap to when Mebane makes contact with Smith. His back is to the line until about 1.5 seconds. That means he had about 2.25s to look downfield/identify the OL breakdown. It does seem to me that Smith held onto the ball too long, based on this angle alone.

I don't know if anyone was open, or if he had a lane to scramble in, but I think 2.5s should have been long enough for him to identify the blitzer. 3.86 seconds is a lifetime for an elite QB, and pretty good for a "good" QB. Without anymore evidence, I'd put that sack at 60% Smiths fault, and 40% the OL's fault.

That doesn't change my opinion, though. Smith is here and is the best that has been available. *****ing about him is pointless.

[Eydugstr]

Green is referring to routes, as in there is no short route for Smith to dump off to. He's saying that everyone is running deeper patterns and the Chiefs were looking to push the ball up the field. He's not saying that Smith didn't have an outlet as if he didn't have anywhere to go with the ball. Just for clarification.

That's your "clarification". Not mine. In my world "There is no short route for Smith to dump off to" = "Smith had no outlet."


He planted his feet and should've gotten rid of the ball before 4 seconds, but yes, it was about 4 seconds from the snap of the ball to the point he was sacked - just as I posted. Someone said that he was sacked 1 second after the ball was snapped. Hmmm ....

He was tackled at the end of his drop, and no I didn't say he was tackled one second after the ball was snapped, but I'll happily take the heat for the guy that did. If someone had asked me right after the play had happened, I'd probably answered a second, too, because it felt like went down that fast.


That's because Morse (#61) reads overload to the right side and knows the TE (Oshaunessy - sp?) is isolated 1 on 1 with the DE. The guy that is lost on the play is #74. He has no one to block because the man he was responsible for faked the blitz and then dropped back into coverage. #61 did exactly as he should on the play.

We can credit Seattle with a good defensive playcall, but at the same time, Smith has to read the defense and get the ball out of his hand. He had time and Kelce was open. Of course on the surface it just looks bad for the Oline, but if that's Manning, Brady, Brees, or any QB with solid pocket skills, that's a big play instead of a sack. A QB with good pocket skills makes the defense pay on that play.

Not if Smith makes the right read and delivers the ball on time right after the last step of his drop. He had a moment of indecision, and in the NFL, that's all it takes. It's the difference between positive gains and trouble.

Anyway, I'm glad that you have the game recorded. I enjoy doing film study and analysis.

There's only one problem with that theory; The sack happened from the left side. And yeah it's a no-brainer that Seattle (NFC championship defense) is going to take advantage of a situation with a rookie center and an employee-of-the-week shuffled O-line in an effort to embarrass them on their home turf.

Also, I'd like to point out that if Manning, Brady or Brees had taken a shot like Alex did in the first play...They might not have come back up. Sure, maybe one of those guys could've gotten the ball off, but those guys aren't immune to throwing INT's, either. Especially against that defense.

My post wasn't meant for you. Brd asked me for my take and he got it. Your analysis always goes to one thing: It's Alex Smith's fault. Has been from word go.

[brdempsey69]

I'm guessing then this is the correct video. It is the only angle I could find:

http://www.seahawks.com/video/2015/08/22/raible-call-brandon-mebane-belly-roll

It doesn't really shed too much light on the blocking and whether the OL was a sieve, but it doesn't give you a chance to see how much time Smith had in the pocket. He has (by my stopwatch measurement) 3.86 seconds from snap to when Mebane makes contact with Smith. His back is to the line until about 1.5 seconds. That means he had about 2.25s to look downfield/identify the OL breakdown. It does seem to me that Smith held onto the ball too long, based on this angle alone.

I don't know if anyone was open, or if he had a lane to scramble in, but I think 2.5s should have been long enough for him to identify the blitzer. 3.86 seconds is a lifetime for an elite QB, and pretty good for a "good" QB. Without anymore evidence, I'd put that sack at 60% Smiths fault, and 40% the OL's fault.

That doesn't change my opinion, though. Smith is here and is the best that has been available. *****ing about him is pointless.

That angle is a bit deceptive in that vid. There was no blitzer on the play. I have a side view of it, as well. Alex didn't have a lane to scramble in & he doesn't hold on to the ball too long. By counting 1001, 1002, 1003, I get 3 full seconds from the snap until Alex has his feet is set and he is looking downfield. I don't get 2 full seconds from the time that Alex sets his feet to the time he sees Mebane breaking free and closing in on him. Alex had no time to look for a 2nd option & he couldn't just throw the ball away, because that would have been called for intentional grounding. Morse had vacated the middle of the line and pulled to the right & that was a mistake, contrary to what Stephanie Rae Jean says.

The only way to have avoided a sack was to simply throw the ball away over the head of his first option, but you don't make plays by making a habit of doing that. The better QB's stand in there and try to find a 2nd or 3rd option & if Morse had not vacated the middle and stayed put to help his RG, then Alex might have been able to have time to spot Kelce and get the throw off.


He planted his feet and should've gotten rid of the ball before 4 seconds, but yes, it was about 4 seconds from the snap of the ball to the point he was sacked - just as I posted. Someone said that he was sacked 1 second after the ball was snapped. Hmmm ....




He was tackled at the end of his drop, and no I didn't say he was tackled one second after the ball was snapped, but I'll happily take the heat for the guy that did. If someone had asked me right after the play had happened, I'd probably answered a second, too, because it felt like went down that fast.


It's quite apparent that Stephanie Rae Jean's mommy raised Stephanie Rae Jean on Milk of Magnesia because Stephanie Rae Jean is completely full of crap. Nobody even remotely suggested that Smith was sacked 1 second after the ball snapped. My initial post regarding the matter stated "I counted exactly 1 second from the time Smith turned to look upfield before the pressure came." That is NOT suggesting that Smith was sacked 1 second after the ball was snapped. Stephanie Rae Jean's contention that Morse did what he was supposed to do is pure bunk. On a play-action pass, the middle of the pocket must be protected first and foremost and having a Center vacate the middle and pull to the right serves no purpose -- in fact that's the first time that I can recall EVER seeing that happen on a straight drop-back play-action pass.

This is the paradox that you find with Stephanie Rae Jean -- when Stephanie Rae Jean can't answer or refute a germane point, then Stephanie Rae Jean rips things out of context to support her phony arguments.

[Stevie Ray]

That's not what Dougster is saying regarding "4 seconds of time" as far as Alex setting his feet and looking down downfield. Dougster said "It does take about 4 seconds for Alex to plant his feet" -- meaning executing the play-fake and then turning around and looking downfield. That 4 seconds Dougster is referring has Alex's back to the Defense, for the most part.

Horse hockey!!

From the snap of the ball, the amount of time it takes Smith to carry out the fake and get his head around is 1.42 seconds. He still has over 2 seconds to finish executing the play.

But all that is ancillary because there was still nearly 4 seconds that you're expecting no defender to get to the QB. If you think that's an indictment on the offensive line, then I question your understanding of the game big time.

[Stevie Ray]

I didn't watch the game, but there was enough discussion that I tried to find a video. I THINK the play everyone is referencing is at 1:40 on this video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000514260/Seahawks-vs-Chiefs-highlights

That's not the play, but I like your analysis of the play that you pointed out.

[Stevie Ray]

I'm guessing then this is the correct video. It is the only angle I could find:

http://www.seahawks.com/video/2015/08/22/raible-call-brandon-mebane-belly-roll

It doesn't really shed too much light on the blocking and whether the OL was a sieve, but it doesn't give you a chance to see how much time Smith had in the pocket. He has (by my stopwatch measurement) 3.86 seconds from snap to when Mebane makes contact with Smith. His back is to the line until about 1.5 seconds. That means he had about 2.25s to look downfield/identify the OL breakdown. It does seem to me that Smith held onto the ball too long, based on this angle alone.

Wish we had the broadcast angle of the play because it shows everything that went on.

Notice that Smith is pointing out the overload right. He and Morse (C #61) are changing the protection accordingly.

After Smith carries out the fake and sets up, he starts to float slightly left when he should be floating slightly right with his protection. This only causes #76 (RG) to lose leverage in his matchup with Mebane (NT). Had Smith been floating to his right with his protection, he buys himself even more time.

They're moving the protection to the right - which is why Morse (#61) checks and then peels off to the right, but Smith is floating left AWAY from his protection. If Smith's protection is moving to the right, and the RG is blocking the NT to the left, Smith is false stepping into the pressure instead of away from it.

Smith's pocket skills are just not very good, and it causes problems for his protection - which the novice eye will automatically hold the Oline responsible for the negative play.

[Chiefs4life24]

None of us know for sure how the play is supposed to go, only Andy Reid can say if Alex did right or not, but what I do know is we need to get Fisher and them guys back and stop with everyone being hurt or its gonna be a long long year

[Stevie Ray]

That doesn't change my opinion, though. Smith is here and is the best that has been available. *****ing about him is pointless.

Yes, Smith is here and he's our guy. Constantly arguing about him changes nothing...... agreed.

But that's not really the point either.

The discussion really comes down to a disagreement about how good of a QB he is or isn't. Some think it's his supporting cast (both now and throughout his career) that's the source of his mediocre production, whereas I (and others) point to him being the source of his own problems.

Smith is just not a very good QB, imo. The same perceived problems that have been prevalent in his past -- porous O line play, pedestrian WRs, etc -- will continue to follow him going forward.

[Chiefs4life24]

I remember people wanted us to go harder after Peyton but I honestly believe he already had his mind made up, he just visited to Chiefs to use it as more leverage against the Broncos. Just like I don't think Mariota, Manziel, Winston, Geno, Manuel or any of those guys will be worth a damn, I personally believe that Derek Carr will be damn good once they get 2 more draft done. He has a great arm, awareness, pocket presence and intelligence, I was actually pulling for the Chiefs to Draft him.

[Stevie Ray]

That's your "clarification". Not mine. In my world "There is no short route for Smith to dump off to" = "Smith had no outlet."

Yes, and that's exactly what I said.


He was tackled at the end of his drop

No, he wasn't. He set up, "bounced" (towards his left) a couple of times while patting the ball, then tried to scramble to away from the pressure at the last second. - for effect and clarity, these things are all taking place in split seconds -




There's only one problem with that theory; The sack happened from the left side.

Exactly.

Watch as Smith and Morse change the protection in the pre-snap read. The RG is blocking down(left) on the NT and the protection is moving right. But after Smith sets up he floats left into the pressure and the RG loses leverage -- advantage Mebane. The defenders are looking at the QB and knows where he is, while the blockers can't see where the QB is positioned. This is where the pocket skills of the QB comes into play.


Your analysis always goes to one thing: It's Alex Smith's fault. Has been from word go.

No, my analysis goes to "stop blaming the offensive line (and others)" and using it as an excuse for Alex Smith. That's been my position throughout this whole ordeal. People can twist that into me saying that it's all Alex Smith's fault, but not once have I said that.

I'm saying that he's not a very good QB - "pocket QB" to be specific" - and trying to build and fix things around him is only the proverbial band-aid over an open wound. It's the same problem the Chiefs have had for decades, long before Alex Smith, and at some point the organizational philosophy has to change when it comes to the QB position.

"Football is the ultimate team sport, except the QB is too damn important." - Dick Vermeil

[Stevie Ray]

TAlex had no time to look for a 2nd option & he couldn't just throw the ball away, because that would have been called for intentional grounding. Morse had vacated the middle of the line and pulled to the right & that was a mistake, contrary to what Stephanie Rae Jean says.

*FACEPALM*

You don't get it. You just don't get it. I've tried to explain it to you, but ..........

......... you just don't get it. Smh.

[Stevie Ray]

None of us know for sure how the play is supposed to go, only Andy Reid can say if Alex did right or not

Point taken.

At the same time, it doesn't take being in the huddle to venture an educated guess as to what is happening. You need little better than novice football acumen and common sense to break it down.

[Stevie Ray]

I personally believe that Derek Carr will be damn good once they get 2 more draft done. He has a great arm, awareness, pocket presence and intelligence, I was actually pulling for the Chiefs to Draft him.

I personally believe that Bridgewater will be better.

Either way, the Chiefs had their shot to get one or the other. I'd assume they didn't primarily because they'd already committed to Alex Smith and were content with him going forward -- which is the mistake that they continue to make over and over (committing to someone else's veteran back up QB instead of drafting/developing their own).

We all know what the definition of insanity is.

[Chiefs4life24]

OK so explain to me why you don't think Carr will be good?

I don't think Bridgewater has the quickest reads

[Stevie Ray]

OK so explain to me why you don't think Carr will be good?

I don't think Bridgewater has the quickest reads

I didn't say Carr wouldn't be good ..... just said I think Bridgewater is better. Admittedly, I didn't watch much of Carr in college, and I watched a ton of Bridgewater at Louisville ..... so I may be biased.

[Frankenchief]

I wanted Carr too as my QBOTF. I do like Ford, mind you, and I didn't want Carr at 23. I remember hoping that we would trade down with the 9ers to pick up Carr at 30 along with an extra pick.

But like I said, I think Ford will pan out.

[matthewschiefs]

Thanks Jap for the video.

From what I see 76 gets beat pretty easy

Smith does end up getting close to 4 seconds to throw. But some of that time is in doing the playaction and then Smith makes a slight move trying to avoid being hit. So to say he had 4 seconds to throw the ball is not accurate IMO on this play.

I again will say that I do agree that Smith can tend to hold on to the ball to long at times and that does from time to time lead to sacks. But IMO I don't see that on this play. Could he have thrown the ball away after his first read sure. But not many QBs are going to do that.

[Eydugstr]

Thanks Jap for the video.

From what I see 76 gets beat pretty easy

Smith does end up getting close to 4 seconds to throw. But some of that time is in doing the playaction and then Smith makes a slight move trying to avoid being hit. So to say he had 4 seconds to throw the ball is not accurate IMO on this play.

I again will say that I do agree that Smith can tend to hold on to the ball to long at times and that does from time to time lead to sacks. But IMO I don't see that on this play. Could he have thrown the ball away after his first read sure. But not many QBs are going to do that.

#76? Did you mean #79 or #74? Or #66?

[Chiefs4life24]

Fisher is #72




72
Fisher,
Eric

[Eydugstr]

Fisher is #72

My bad. Will Correct.

[Stevie Ray]

#76? Did you mean #79 or #74? Or #66?

No, I think he means #76, because that's who was responsible for Mebane on the play.

What's he leaving out is the fact that #76 is blocking down (left) on Mebane from the RG spot, and Smith drifts left after he sets up in the pocket. That gives the advantage to Mebane. If Smith drifts right -- the direction in which HE himself moved the protection in pre-snap -- #76 doesn't lose contain as quickly and Smith has even more time.

None of that matters, because he still had nearly 4 seconds to execute a play and that's more than adequate - not to mention that his TE was wide open right in front of him.

[Stevie Ray]

Here's an excercise for you guys if you're interested.

Watch any other game(s), any other team's offense ...... and put a stopwatch on the time that the ball is snapped to the time the QB throws the ball, gets pressured out of the pocket, or gets sacked. What you're going to find is that it's generally 2.5 to 3 seconds.

If your QB consistently requires more time than that to make a decision with the ball, then he simply will not be an effective NFL passer.

It's not a matter of the offensive line affording Smith more time. It's a matter of whether of not Smith has the skills to execute from the pocket within a matter of 2.5 to 3 seconds on a consistent basis -- this is where he lacks ability, and this is why his O line will continue to appear inadequate.

I contend that the game just moves a little too fast for Smith at times.

[doobs_05]

Haha

Still no video from both sides. Guess people are going to have strong opinions on what they believe.

Guess we'll have to wait til the season starts up to see how Alex plays. Then we'll start the cycle again, unless Alex pulls a cassel

[matthewschiefs]

Haha

Still no video from both sides. Guess people are going to have strong opinions on what they believe.

Guess we'll have to wait til the season starts up to see how Alex plays. Then we'll start the cycle again, unless Alex pulls a cassel

Ummm doobs jap found the video and posted a link there bud LOL -

[doobs_05]

Ummm doobs jap found the video and posted a link there bud LOL -

Really, Damn. I must of skipped a page or something. Well then, I'll shall show myself the door Haha

[matthewschiefs]

Really, Damn. I must of skipped a page or something. Well then, I'll shall show myself the door Haha

I think you might have been looking for the video itself here. He didn't post that but he found a link that shows the play that has been in question

[doobs_05]

I think you might have been looking for the video itself here. He didn't post that but he found a link that shows the play that has been in question

That might of been it as well.

Is it regular season yet....

[matthewschiefs]

That might of been it as well.

Is it regular season yet....

I wish.

Then we can argue over plays that actually well you know matter

[jason1981]

Why do i see stevie ray post anything onoy when its about alex smith? I havent seen him in othe4 threads bu5 i kight be wrong iv been busy lately.

[Frankenchief]

Why do i see stevie ray post anything onoy when its about alex smith? I havent seen him in othe4 threads bu5 i kight be wrong iv been busy lately.
:sign0094:

Now in English please!

;-)

[jason1981]

:sign0094:

Now in English please!

;-)

Lol. Ok yeah sorry. Mobile phone and big hands dont go well together.

Stevie ray only seems to post when its about alex smith .

[jap1]

Haha

Still no video from both sides. Guess people are going to have strong opinions on what they believe.

Guess we'll have to wait til the season starts up to see how Alex plays. Then we'll start the cycle again, unless Alex pulls a cassel
http://www.seahawks.com/video/2015/08/22/raible-call-brandon-mebane-belly-roll

here you go bud. It's not the best angle, but it's there.

[Stevie Ray]

Stevie ray only seems to post when its about alex smith .

I've posted on other topics, but I don't think there is a more intriguing conversation about the team. QB is pretty important.

[Chiefs4life24]

Found on Arrowhead Pride

By MNchiefsfan (http://www.sbnation.com/users/MNchiefsfan)  @RealMNchiefsfan (http://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan) on Aug 25, 2015, 7:42a 9 (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/8/25/9198297/kansas-city-chiefs-alex-smith-throwing-deeper-preseason#comments)

A rational look at Alex Smith

I'm not here to talk about the merits of Alex Smith (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1839/alex-smith) as a franchise quarterback. I'll leave that to all of you people in the comments. I look forward to such steaming-hot takes such as "he can't throw farther than five yards" and "he's a winner." Keep the gloves up, people.
That said, Smith is the quarterback for the Chiefs (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/kansas-city-chiefs), and in the foreseeable future that's not changing. I'm sorry, those who are championing Chase Daniel (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71207/chase-daniel).
So then the question becomes; what will Smith do this year? Well, I can't answer that for sure. What I CAN do, though, is look at what Smith has done this preseason and try and figure out if it's meaningful. I can also take a look at a couple of passes that caught my eye on Friday and cross my fingers that it's a sign of Smith leaning a different direction this season.
First, a caveat; these numbers are a small sample size and perhaps meaningless. Proceed only if you want to know if Smith has done something different so far this year than he did last year. Whether it matters ... well, again, we don't know. All we can do is collect data and hypothesize.
Here's an interesting chart of Alex Smith (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/245875/alex-smith) from last season when it came to where he was throwing the ball.


Pass Att.
Att. 20+ Yards
Att. 10-20 Yards
% of Passes 10-20 Yards
% of Passes 20+ Yards


464
24
82
17.67%
5.17%


As you can see, Smith was not stretching the field much last season. Perhaps you'd heard that somewhere? If not, I'll give you a moment to recover from your shock. Also, while I'm giving you shocking information ... Bruce Willis was a ghost the whole time. I know, I know. Spoilers. I ruin everything.


I'M not even going to begin to get into the "why" behind the lack of a vertical game last (a combination of Smith, the line, and the receivers was ... well, it didn't go well), but it's safe to say there wasn't even much of a threat of deep ATTEMPTS last season from the Chiefs. I'm certain many of you have read some kind of "almost no team threw deep less than the Chiefs in 2014" blurb in multiple places. Well, the blurbs were right. The Chiefs weren't throwing the ball down the field much.
We all lamented the lack of deep shots last year. So... what's going on so far this year? Again, let's keep in mind the caveat that we're 2 preseason games in (so why am I doing this? I dunno. Why are you reading it? Stop questioning my life decisions!). But so far, here's what Smith has done with the first string offense...


Pass Att.
Att. 20+ Yards
Att. 10-20 Yards
% of Passes 10-20 Yards
% of Passes 20+ Yards


28
3
7
25.00%
10.71%


Hmmm....
IF one were so inclined as to read into a couple of preseason games (which I am, and you are too or you wouldn't be this far into this article), one would be at least intrigued by those numbers.
Smith, through two games, is throwing the ball down the field more than last year at a solid clip. We've all seen the obvious shots down the field to start each game. Those shots aren't really about success. The corners have been looking for it both times and they were well covered. Make no mistake, this wasn't necessarily about success. It was about actually, you know, MAKING those throws. Even the attempt matters.
We'll keep track of this situation through the next preseason game and as the year progresses. It's worth keeping an eye on.
Another mission Smith needs to accept is making more contested throws. We've been around and around on this issue, but the simple fact is that Smith often crosses the line from "conservative" to "too conservative." At a certain point he has to be willing to take a shot and let his receivers make a play on the ball. This rarely happened last year (some blame the WR group for this, and I think that's in part true, but it's also on Smith).
So far this year? Well ... maybe. We'll see. I don't recall a lot of throws like this from Smith last season.
I'm a big fan of this throw, even though it's not a shot down the field, for a couple of reasons.
First, Smith has to gun it in there in order to get it past the linebacker. That's not something Smith is often willing to do. It's out of his comfort zone.
Second, I appreciate the fact that Smith is willing to chuck it into a tight window. That's not a throw he can toss "away" from the defender because if he does Avant is going to get killed by a different defender. Smith HAS to put it in a spot where the throw is at least somewhat risky, but he made it anyway. Fight those overly conservative instincts, Alex!
Third ... well, it's really just those two things. But I needed to say "third." Because points are a lot stronger when you can say "third."
Oh, and quick side note before someone says it in the comments; no, Maclin wasn't wide open. His defender broke as Smith threw the ball. Don't ever judge how open a WR is based on where defenders are after the throw. NFL defenders are so fast and so quick to recognize where a throw is going that by the time the ball is in the air they are already reacting.
This throw is not a big deal in that it's a throw a quarterback SHOULD be willing to make. However, it's not a throw Smith was often willing to make last year.
It wasn't the only moment that made me say, "hmmm ..." on Friday. Another throw that didn't really change the stats sheet (outside of an incomplete pass) caught my eye as well.
Here's Smith on the first drive about to make a throw to Maclin to go for the first down (it was third and a billion, give or take)
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8QAAUVyjsG30gl2zfj9WK3vYRiE=/600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3996414/Chiefs_Pic_1.0.pngA couple observations here. First, NO, Avant was not wide open people. There's a safety hovering just off camera in that zone. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, what is there to notice?
First, look at Anthony Sherman (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/130892/anthony-sherman)! He's open! That's exactly the kind of "bait" defenses love to throw at quarterbacks on third and long to tempt them into an easy completion that doesn't really threaten the defense. Smith took those options quite a bit last year. It's at least worth noting he ignored it here.
Second, notice where Maclin is. He's about to make his cut outside to the first down marker (see, he actually ran his route to the marker, not three yards in front of it. A novel concept, no?) and has the corner's hips turned the wrong way. However, he hasn't really made his cut yet and certainly hasn't gained any separation. Yet Smith is already in his throwing motion (and really pulled the ball to throw a moment earlier, even before Maclin had stopped to cut).
Trust, man. People talk about it all the time, but it's tough to quantify. Smith trusted Maclin to run the route to the right spot and make a play on the ball. He also put it in a great spot.
https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/2UeMmULpKTDyChbqOZRdzY91rgk=/600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3996422/Chiefs_Pic_2.0.pngThat's a great route by Maclin and a very well-placed throw by Smith. My only complaint is I think Smith could've put a little more on the ball (though he was putting it over the head of the shallow defenders). That said, 95 percent of the time or so this is a complete pass and a first down.
Instead, the rookie corner for the Seahawks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/seattle-seahawks) (who played very well all game ... Pete knows how to find and coach up secondary players better than anyone) made a fantastic recovery after getting turned around initially and was able to JUST get his hand in to knock it away. Incomplete pass, people move on.
But the route, trust, and accuracy there made me say "hmmm..."
Smith absolutely needs to trust his receivers more this year, and he absolutely needs to throw the ball down the field more. It's too early to say anything for sure other than... maybe.
Maybe.

[Stevie Ray]

I haven't read the story yet, but I will later. I just noticed that it made emphasis of the "ignored checkdown."

Now maybe there is some context I'm missing, but that play was a 3rd down and forever.

[ctchiefsfan]

http://www.seahawks.com/video/2015/08/22/raible-call-brandon-mebane-belly-roll

here you go bud. It's not the best angle, but it's there.

Thanks again for posting that jap1. I must confess that between the angle and speed I didn't really get a good handle on it but reading others comments I get the impression that it took Alex somewhere between 3 and 4 seconds before he was actually ready to throw the ball. That jibes rather nicely with something I posted a few months ago where I studied an Alex highlights reel for over an hour and came to the conclusion that when passing from the pocket it takes Alex between 2 and 3 seconds to get off a short pass and between 3 and 4 seconds (probably closer to 4) to get off a medium to long pass--call it 10 to 25 yards.

Certainly that isn't "fast", but by no means is it molasses in January. A decent to good offensive line should be able to give their QB that much time unless there is an all out blitz on in which case it is the QBs job to read the blitz and either find a receiver, scramble or throw the ball away close enough to a receiver so that the throw is unlikely to be called grounding.

In short, Alex isn't the "fastest gun in the West" nor is he the slowest.

Do I wish we had a better QB? OF COURSE I DO! But since Reid and company came to town I just haven't seen any opportunity to get a QB who was sure to be better. Picking up Alex was a "safe" decision. And after the disaster that was the 2012 season, a safe decision was a good one. He won't lose games and he won't win them by himself either. And he seems to up his game in the playoffs and in games against tough teams. In short, IMO Alex was a good "placeholder" while we try to develop a true QOTF.

[Chiefs4life24]

Stevie Ray did you read my section yet?

[Stevie Ray]

Stevie Ray did you read my section yet?

I have not. Is there a cliffsnotes version?

[Chiefs4life24]

what does that mean?

[jason1981]

I have not. Is there a cliffsnotes version?

Really. He was showing you data behind his view and stance and alex amd you dont care to read ot cuz it doesnt help your stance. That just shows you only see what you want to see and nothing can tell you otherwise. Closed minded.

[jason1981]

I've posted on other topics, but I don't think there is a more intriguing conversation about the team. QB is pretty important.

Yeah but it gets old when all you do is talk and bash the qb. Its like seeing a guy bejng picked on and i might not evenknow the victim but i want to stand up for him cuz all this guy does is tear him down. Your like a bully. You have said your peace about the qb amd you have your right to your own opinion but it gets old and not enjoyable. Smith has proven he can win in the playoffs. We can win with him. No one would complain if we drafted a qb if we felt he was worth it but not going to complain kf they dont either ciz we can win with smith. Everybody i think would rather root for a qb that we drafted rather then a trade.

[Stevie Ray]

Really. He was showing you data behind his view and stance and alex amd you dont care to read ot cuz it doesnt help your stance. That just shows you only see what you want to see and nothing can tell you otherwise. Closed minded.

Lol hush. I'm asking for whatever data he has, but I'm not interested in reading a novel to get it. Whatever data he has, I'm sure he can sum it up nicely in a short paragraph or two.

[Stevie Ray]

Yeah but it gets old when all you do is talk and bash the qb. Its like seeing a guy bejng picked on and i might not evenknow the victim but i want to stand up for him cuz all this guy does is tear him down. Your like a bully. You have said your peace about the qb amd you have your right to your own opinion but it gets old and not enjoyable. Smith has proven he can win in the playoffs. We can win with him. No one would complain if we drafted a qb if we felt he was worth it but not going to complain kf they dont either ciz we can win with smith. Everybody i think would rather root for a qb that we drafted rather then a trade.

Lol, oh so you're like a super hero coming to poor little Alex's rescue. Where did you find a phone booth in this day and age anyway?

If topics get old to me, I don't read them anymore .... and I certainly don't engage in the discussion. No one is forced to read or respond.

If you want to continue to stick up for Smith or defend your position and your beliefs about Smith, then go right ahead. You don't have to hide behind a veil of excuses like, "it gets old." Because right after saying that, you go on to regurgitate the same played out defenses of how Smith has proven he can win, and how we can win with him, yada, yada, yada.

Don't pretend to be tired of the discussion only to turn around and continue it. People might think you're a hypocrite. Just a thought.

[ctchiefsfan]

what does that mean?

Cliff notes are a short summary of a book. What Billy-bob was saying is that he is too lazy to read anything that consists of more than 100 words.

[jason1981]

Lol, oh so you're like a super hero coming to poor little Alex's rescue. Where did you find a phone booth in this day and age anyway?

If topics get old to me, I don't read them anymore .... and I certainly don't engage in the discussion. No one is forced to read or respond.

If you want to continue to stick up for Smith or defend your position and your beliefs about Smith, then go right ahead. You don't have to hide behind a veil of excuses like, "it gets old." Because right after saying that, you go on to regurgitate the same played out defenses of how Smith has proven he can win, and how we can win with him, yada, yada, yada.

Don't pretend to be tired of the discussion only to turn around and continue it. People might think you're a hypocrite. Just a thought.

Ok maybe saying it gets old isnt accurate. Its more agrivating and i tend to soeak my mind when agrivated. I havent been getting on here as much cuz of people like you. Its not worth the agrivation.

[ctchiefsfan]

Ok maybe saying it gets old isnt accurate. Its more agrivating and i tend to soeak my mind when agrivated. I havent been getting on here as much cuz of people like you. Its not worth the agrivation.

Don't let him make you stay away!!!!! He's just a USELESS TROLL!!!!!

[tornadospotter]

When the season starts the starting qb will start, that will be our starting qb. Let the Season Start! I for one am confident in the Starter and the Backup. I for one feel confident that both will bring us a win, if all play to there ability. I have no doubts. I believe.
Do you?

[tornadospotter]

I Say D!

[ctchiefsfan]

when the season starts the starting qb will start, that will be our starting qb. Let the season start! I for one am confident in the starter and the backup. I for one feel confident that both will bring us a win, if all play to there ability. I have no doubts. I believe.
Do you?

hell yes!!!!!

[Eydugstr]

When the season starts the starting qb will start, that will be our starting qb. Let the Season Start! I for one am confident in the Starter and the Backup. I for one feel confident that both will bring us a win, if all play to there ability. I have no doubts. I believe.
Do you?

Hell yes.

[brdempsey69]

When the season starts the starting qb will start, that will be our starting qb. Let the Season Start! I for one am confident in the Starter and the Backup. I for one feel confident that both will bring us a win, if all play to there ability. I have no doubts. I believe.
Do you?

Oh yeah!!

[milkman]

When the season starts the starting qb will start, that will be our starting qb. Let the Season Start! I for one am confident in the Starter and the Backup. I for one feel confident that both will bring us a win, if all play to there ability. I have no doubts. I believe.
Do you?

That right there is some beautiful homerism.