Random ramblings on Alex Smith and Pat Mahomes...

[ctchiefsfan]

Since those of us that post here regularly are pretty serious Chiefs fans (we don't seem to attract many bandwagon types) and since I've been pondering the whole Alex Smith/Pat Mahomes situation for close to a month now I thought I'd post the conclusions I have come to and see what my Brother Chiefs fans are thinking about the situation.

My thoughts.....shaded somewhat by the fact that I really just plain like Alex....

#1) It sounds horrible, but Mahomes was brought in to kick Alex out the door.

#2) Alex knows that #1 is probably true. It's happening to Alex all over again. If he can step up in a HUGE way this year and get us to the AFC Championship game or better then we probably keep him for 2018 or maybe beyond. If not he's probably gone after this season. So certainly that is a POWERFUL INCENTIVE for Alex to have a great season since even if Alex gets cut loose after this season having a GREAT year will help him get better offers in 2018. And if we cut him loose he's just not likely to retire at age 34.

#3) #1 is true because Alex hasn't gotten us where we want to go and because since we seem to be in eternal cap-hell Alex's $20 million + cap hit in 2018 is a very temping target to free up a LOT of cap space.

#4) I really hate saying this but I think this is the last year we'll see Alex in a Chiefs uniform. I just hope to hell we don't see him in 2018 in another AFC West uniform. But my confidence in that is not high. The Broncos are a mess at the QB position and I could EASILY see horseface signing Alex. The idea makes me want to PUKE.

If you think what I have written above is anything but sheer and utter madness then read on.....

#5) Let's say Mahomes becomes the starter in 2018 and Alex is gone. IMO Mahomes has the potential to be a TRULY GREAT QB. But from what I have seen the kid is raw. VERY RAW. If he takes over as the starter in 2018 without ever having taken a regular season snap I foresee 2018 being a tough year for the Chiefs. I just worry that he won't be ready that quickly and I have seen A LOT of college talent QBs get ruined by being put into the starter position too quickly.

#6) I'm just plain WORRIED about how this is all going to play out.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK????

[Chiefs4life24]

We will be fine. How's that?? The first year Mahomes starts we will win the Division and go 11-5

[brdempsey69]

The whole thing is a tinder box right now. Have to hope Mahomes is ready by 2018, because I believe what you are saying is stark reality. 2017 could very well be the last we see of Alex Smith.

[matthewschiefs]

You are very correct when you say that Mahomes was brought in to kick Alex out the door. That's how it works in the NFL the NFL is known to stand for Not For Long.

And really IT HAD TO BE DONE. Alex isn't getting younger. He is FAR closer to the end of his career then he is the start of it. And it's a move that the Chiefs HAD to do. You just can't leave yourself unprepared for that spot. That is a mistake that this team has made many times before.

Time will tell on Mahomes. Which is no different then any other QB that a team drafts regardless of where in the draft they got him. It will be fun to see how Mahomes does great or we will be upset that we gave up so much to go up in a draft and get him.

But as I said before the draft IT HAD TO BE DONE. It was time this team has built some talent around the QB position. Now you have to try to get that QB upgrade

[brdempsey69]

Matt is correct when he speaks of "QB upgrade". Alex is OK to a point, but he is not Trent Green, however, when it comes to throwing the football downfield. Alex may serve up fewer INT's than Green did, but Green got more yards and scored more often & Green was never afraid to wing it downfield.

If Mahomes becomes another Trent Green for the Chiefs, then everybody will be happy and the move to get Mahomes will have been worth the cost.

[ctchiefsfan]

The whole thing is a tinder box right now. Have to hope Mahomes is ready by 2018, because I believe what you are saying is stark reality. 2017 could very well be the last we see of Alex Smith.

Yep. In 2018 I expect he'll be playing for his 3rd team. Tough business to be in. But then, by the end of this year he'll have probably made over $100 million from the 9ers and Chiefs so I guess I shouldn't feel bad for him.

[brdempsey69]

I can't help but wonder if a trade will come about before the 2018 draft. If Dorsey can get a 3rd rounder for Smith, then take it.

[slc chief]

Solid move by Dorsey Alex smith in his mid 30's becomes even more limited as far as his arm strength and pushing the ball down the field. And let's face it 5 years of check downs makes the offense become stale. Enter Mahomes you give the offense a much needed shot in the arm. I am excited I like Alex but I was watching last year's Carolina game the other day and I was blown away at how many open receivers Alex missed. If anything this move keeps Alex on his toes and pushes him to get better

[Seek]

Alex could be one more concussion away from retiring. He has a history of them. In fact he quit running the ball which made our offense less effective because of one last year.

I like Alex he has bee a pro- but the cards were on the table allowing the Chiefs to get their guy. They had take it or keep waiting to catch lightning in a bottle by hoping, a Hogan, Aaron Murray, or Tyler Bray shocks he world by becoming a Tom Brady.

It gave the Chiefs options. It will make Alex compete harder and push him over that thresh hold that has been holding him back. Pat may also be a bust.

It is what it is, and we move on hoping Mahomes an Alex both compete hard enough to get us to the super bowl.

[ctchiefsfan]

I can't help but wonder if a trade will come about before the 2018 draft. If Dorsey can get a 3rd rounder for Smith, then take it.

I'm still holding out faint hope that assuming Mahomes will start in 2018 Alex will rework his contract to stay on as the backup for 2018, 2019 and 2020. Yeah...OK so I am crazy. But Reid/Dorsey have shown a fondness for experienced backups and haven't minded paying them pretty well. And being honest, can you think of a better backup to Mahomes than Alex (unless Bray suddenly comes out of the woodwork)? I know it ain't a gonna happen but I'm sticking with it until Alex is actually traded or released...simply because I'll be sorry to see him go. He's never been GREAT but he was an important part of making our Chiefs respectable again and I will always be grateful for that.

[ctchiefsfan]

Alex could be one more concussion away from retiring. He has a history of them. In fact he quit running the ball which made our offense less effective because of one last year.

I like Alex he has bee a pro- but the cards were on the table allowing the Chiefs to get their guy. They had take it or keep waiting to catch lightning in a bottle by hoping, a Hogan, Aaron Murray, or Tyler Bray shocks he world by becoming a Tom Brady.

It gave the Chiefs options. It will make Alex compete harder and push him over that thresh hold that has been holding him back. Pat may also be a bust.

It is what it is, and we move on hoping Mahomes an Alex both compete hard enough to get us to the super bowl.

You're right. And I'm excited about Mahomes too. Just going to be a little sad to see Alex get kicked to the curb again. He's the Rodney Dangerfield of the modern NFL. But like I said earlier, I guess I shouldn't feel too bad for a guy that will wind up actually making (as opposed to contract numbers) over $100 million in what will probably be a 15 year career. That's not a bad parting gift if you are going to get kicked around.

[brdempsey69]

We've talked about here and elsewhere about the hits to the head that Alex has taken. Apparently we aren't the only ones with concerns regarding that. Look at this pic of Alex in the 1st day of OTA's. Notice anything different? That's right -- the helmut is different and has thicker padding. Tells you all you need to know.

867

[ctchiefsfan]

We've talked about here and elsewhere about the hits to the head that Alex has taken. Apparently we aren't the only ones with concerns regarding that. Look at this pic of Alex in the 1st day of OTA's. Notice anything different? That's right -- the helmut is different and has thicker padding. Tells you all you need to know.

WOW! Certainly does suggest that there are some concerns about how many times he's gotten his noggin knocked around.

[Chiefs4life24]

It didn't help when he got here how crap the line was and how many times they let him get blown up

[brdempsey69]

It didn't help when he got here how crap the line was and how many times they let him get blown up

Not to mention, the number of times he got his bell rung in SF. I saw it up close and personal when the Niners played in KC in Sept. of 2010. I still have no idea how Alex was able to finish that game, as many times as he got hit.

One thing is for certain. When Mahomes does take over, the Chiefs must make it a point to upkeep their O-Line, so that Mahomes doesn't have to take the number of shots that Alex had to take when he was a 49er. I don't care how many high-round draft picks they have to spend on O-Line, they can not let it degenerate like we saw in 2007, after Roaf and Shields retired.

[NJChiefs]

I don't think anyone should feel sorry for Alex Smith. And if he's getting kicked to the curb, it's because he couldn't quite accomplish what was required of him. He's a good QB, never great. He's Jan Brady, not Tom Brady. No feel sorry for any $100 million man. He has displayed great character, and I think we all respect him for that. But we need a Super Bowl. 47 years and counting. Before I die. Please.

[ctchiefsfan]

It didn't help when he got here how crap the line was and how many times they let him get blown up

ABSOLUTE FACT! In 2016 Alex had 28 sacks in 15 games started. 2015 45 sacks for 16 games started. 2014 45 sacks in 15 games started. 2013 39 sacks in 15 games started. 2016 was his fewest sacks as a Chief. Dunno if the lower sack numbers for 2016 are because the O-line is better or because Alex was better at throwing the ball away to avoid the sack but for certain-sure Alex has never had a top-5 O-line.

[ctchiefsfan]

Not to mention, the number of times he got his bell rung in SF. I saw it up close and personal when the Niners played in KC in Sept. of 2010. I still have no idea how Alex was able to finish that game, as many times as he got hit.

One thing is for certain. When Mahomes does take over, the Chiefs must make it a point to upkeep their O-Line, so that Mahomes doesn't have to take the number of shots that Alex had to take when he was a 49er. I don't care how many high-round draft picks they have to spend on O-Line, they can not let it degenerate like we saw in 2007, after Roaf and Shields retired.

For CERTAIN! Best way to DESTROY a new QB is to have him run over by a tank every week. Just look at what happened to Luck last year. If you don't have an O-line you DON'T HAVE A QB!

[jason1981]

Matt is correct when he speaks of "QB upgrade". Alex is OK to a point, but he is not Trent Green, however, when it comes to throwing the football downfield. Alex may serve up fewer INT's than Green did, but Green got more yards and scored more often & Green was never afraid to wing it downfield.

If Mahomes becomes another Trent Green for the Chiefs, then everybody will be happy and the move to get Mahomes will have been worth the cost.

I miss trent green. I hate how his career ended. He played right up there with peyton manning. If it wasnt for holmes fumble i believe we would have went to the superbowl. And i think at the time everyone took trent green for granted. Also he had the best oline protecting him. If we had that same olime i think alex smith could almost mirror trents stats. He also had some good weapons as well. Gonzalez, kenninson, hall, holmes, morton along with that oline.

[brdempsey69]

For CERTAIN! Best way to DESTROY a new QB is to have him run over by a tank every week. Just look at what happened to Luck last year. If you don't have an O-line you DON'T HAVE A QB!

Luck is just one of many examples. Dee Ford sacked Luck 3 times in that ball game last year, which was unprecedented. Luck put up good numbers, but was sacked 41 times and many were drive killers.


I miss trent green. I hate how his career ended. He played right up there with peyton manning. If it wasnt for holmes fumble i believe we would have went to the superbowl. And i think at the time everyone took trent green for granted. Also he had the best oline protecting him. If we had that same olime i think alex smith could almost mirror trents stats. He also had some good weapons as well. Gonzalez, kenninson, hall, holmes, morton along with that oline.

I also thought it SUCKED, the way Green's career ended. But, not only that, the way the Chiefs team completely collapsed in 2007, especially their O-Line, starting a six year abyss. And people wonder why some of us were clamoring for O-Lineman to be drafted early and often. Brodie Croyle never had a chance when he got to play. Pioli's first draft pick should have been Tackle Eugene Monroe with Albert kicking inside to his natural LG position.

As for the Chiefs current O-Line, there is room for improvement & development, certainly. There average age is about 25-26. They could still use a stud LG to team with Fisher on the left side & perhaps Swartz and LDT will be better on the right side this year after having played a full year together last season. Morse is a good Center. We'll have to see how they perform this year & hope they improve and that the Chiefs have a solid O-Line when Mahomes takes over.

[Chiefs4life24]

Ehinger can be that stud LG

[brdempsey69]

Ehinger can be that stud LG

I read that Ehinger is rehabbing and getting ready for training camp. Shame that he got hurt last year and didn't get to finish his rookie season. From what I heard, he wasn't bad when he did play.

[ctchiefsfan]

Luck is just one of many examples. Dee Ford sacked Luck 3 times in that ball game last year, which was unprecedented. Luck put up good numbers, but was sacked 41 times and many were drive killers.



I also thought it SUCKED, the way Green's career ended. But, not only that, the way the Chiefs team completely collapsed in 2007, especially their O-Line, starting a six year abyss. And people wonder why some of us were clamoring for O-Lineman to be drafted early and often. Brodie Croyle never had a chance when he got to play. Pioli's first draft pick should have been Tackle Eugene Monroe with Albert kicking inside to his natural LG position.

As for the Chiefs current O-Line, there is room for improvement & development, certainly. There average age is about 25-26. They could still use a stud LG to team with Fisher on the left side & perhaps Swartz and LDT will be better on the right side this year after having played a full year together last season. Morse is a good Center. We'll have to see how they perform this year & hope they improve and that the Chiefs have a solid O-Line when Mahomes takes over.

One good thing about Mahomes is he certainly has no problem tucking the ball away and running with it but he also is always looking for a receiver to throw it to right up until he crosses the LOS.

[JPPT1974]

Think Smith will have one more year to prove himself in 2017. Or he could be gone or traded.

[Eydugstr]

Sorry I'm late to respond to the OP...but there are some things I'd like to point out.

First off, Mahomes wasn't meant to kick Alex to the curb. He was drafted to be Alex's eventual successor. There's a difference. If Alex was getting kicked to the curb, you'd hear a bunch of trade talk, Alex talking to the media, other teams trying to bring in Alex for an interview, etc etc...None of that's happened. While I do think this situation will light a fire under Alex, think it's more out of his age (How many good years does he have left?) than a sense of "I'm competing for my job with the rookie" sort of urgency.

Another thing I'd point out...Let's raise our expectations of what we want in a KC QB. KC really doesn't need another Trent Green, as great as Trent was. What KC needs to find is it's next Len Dawson, or Joe Montana. Guys that won for KC in the postseason. Alex would be in that club. Hoping that Mahomes will join that club, too.

There are some scenarios that could happen...But how will we (the fanbase) react? What if Alex leads the team to a super bowl? What if Alex gets injured, but Bray leads us deep into the postseason, and looks like our next Trent Green? What if Mahomes takes longer than two years to develop?

[ctchiefsfan]

Think Smith will have one more year to prove himself in 2017. Or he could be gone or traded.

Not much doubt about that IMO.

[ctchiefsfan]

Sorry I'm late to respond to the OP...but there are some things I'd like to point out.

First off, Mahomes wasn't meant to kick Alex to the curb. He was drafted to be Alex's eventual successor. There's a difference. If Alex was getting kicked to the curb, you'd hear a bunch of trade talk, Alex talking to the media, other teams trying to bring in Alex for an interview, etc etc...None of that's happened. While I do think this situation will light a fire under Alex, think it's more out of his age (How many good years does he have left?) than a sense of "I'm competing for my job with the rookie" sort of urgency.

There is a difference but it's mostly semantics IMO. But certainly Mahomes was not brought in with the thought of replacing Smith this year. But surely in 2018 or 2019. Though I suspect that Alex's 2018 cap hit of over $20 million is very high on Dorsey's radar. So I suspect that unless Alex takes us to an AFC Championship game or the Super Bowl that this will be the last year we see Alex in a Chiefs uniform unless either A) neither Mahomes nor Bray are viewed as "ready to start" in 2018 or B) Alex reworks his deal to spread that $20+ million in 2018 over 3 years with the understanding that for a good part of those years he will probably be a backup. Just the "feeling" I am getting. We have been in "cap hell" for a while now and Alex's 2018 cap hit is sure to be a tempting target for Dorsey.


Another thing I'd point out...Let's raise our expectations of what we want in a KC QB. KC really doesn't need another Trent Green, as great as Trent was. What KC needs to find is it's next Len Dawson, or Joe Montana. Guys that won for KC in the postseason. Alex would be in that club. Hoping that Mahomes will join that club, too.

AGREED!!!


There are some scenarios that could happen...But how will we (the fanbase) react? What if Alex leads the team to a super bowl?

No doubt in my mind that If Alex gets us to the AFC Championship Game or the Super Bowl this year then he's bought himself a few more years as the starter in KC.


What if Alex gets injured, but Bray leads us deep into the postseason, and looks like our next Trent Green?

That's a scenario I hadn't even thought of. Bray so far has pretty much been an enigma. I saw a report today that in OTAs Bray had been taking reps as the #2. Sort of what I expected since Mahomes seems pretty green, but I just hadn't thought about the idea of Alex getting a serious injury and Bray taking us on a serious post season run. That would certainly complicate the hell out of things at our QB position. But I think it would likely still lead to Alex being gone after this year and we'd wind up with a dogfight between Bray and Mahomes for the starter's spot in 2018. JMO.


What if Mahomes takes longer than two years to develop?

JMO, but I think that is entirely possible. But unless he makes almost no progress this year and Bray shows he is nowhere near ready to start Alex's cap hit in 2018 will mean he is out the door--unless he reworks his contract or gets us to the AFC Championship Game. In Bray and Mahomes we have 2 QBs on the roster that have a 155 MM cannon for an arm. We paid a pretty hefty price to get Mahomes this year and we have been nurse-maiding Bray for 4 years now. If nothing else that tells me that Reid really REALLY wants a QB with an EXPLOSIVE ARM. Odd when you consider that Reid's offense has been largely based on short passes and running. But maybe the leopard (Reid) has changed his spots and wants his legacy to be that he ran the most explosive offense the NFL had ever seen? WOULDN'T THAT BE WEIRD????

[brdempsey69]

................In Bray and Mahomes we have 2 QBs on the roster that have a 155 MM cannon for an arm. We paid a pretty hefty price to get Mahomes this year and we have been nurse-maiding Bray for 4 years now. If nothing else that tells me that Reid really REALLY wants a QB with an EXPLOSIVE ARM. Odd when you consider that Reid's offense has been largely based on short passes and running. But maybe the leopard (Reid) has changed his spots and wants his legacy to be that he ran the most explosive offense the NFL had ever seen? WOULDN'T THAT BE WEIRD????

The Chiefs do have the receivers that can run downfield & get under the passes thrown by a QB with a powerful throwing arm. Plus, remember that .gif I showed, well you can be certain that Reid saw that as well and perhaps many other plays like that one throughout the season.

You can't miss opportunities to take it downfield when it is there & we do know Reid does want his QB's to take it downfield when it's there.

[ctchiefsfan]

The Chiefs do have the receivers that can run downfield & get under the passes thrown by a QB with a powerful throwing arm. Plus, remember that .gif I showed, well you can be certain that Reid saw that as well and perhaps many other plays like that one throughout the season.

You can't miss opportunities to take it downfield when it is there & we do know Reid does want his QB's to take it downfield when it's there.

NO DOUBT! What sort of intrigues me is the idea that Reid seems to be looking for a QB with that cannon arm. What if in 2018 or 2019 we wind up with Mahomes or Bray as #1 and the other as #2? Will Reid open up his offensive scheme in a big way? Or has that offensive scheme always had these "big play" options that Alex simply never saw because he was primarily looking for the short, safe, ball-control pass? I don't know, but it sure will be interesting to see what happens to the Chiefs offense once Mahomes or Bray becomes the starter.

One thing is FOR CERTAIN.....it will be very interesting to see what our Offense looks like once we have a new QB starting. Kind of scary since we've done well with Alex, but one of the knocks on Reid since he came to KC has been....too predictable, dink-and-dunk, too conservative. It will be very interesting to see if that was Reid, Smith or a combination of both.

[brdempsey69]

NO DOUBT! What sort of intrigues me is the idea that Reid seems to be looking for a QB with that cannon arm. What if in 2018 or 2019 we wind up with Mahomes or Bray as #1 and the other as #2? Will Reid open up his offensive scheme in a big way? Or has that offensive scheme always had these "big play" options that Alex simply never saw because he was primarily looking for the short, safe, ball-control pass? I don't know, but it sure will be interesting to see what happens to the Chiefs offense once Mahomes or Bray becomes the starter.

One thing is FOR CERTAIN.....it will be very interesting to see what our Offense looks like once we have a new QB starting. Kind of scary since we've done well with Alex, but one of the knocks on Reid since he came to KC has been....too predictable, dink-and-dunk, too conservative. It will be very interesting to see if that was Reid, Smith or a combination of both.

I looked at the stats for the Eagles in Reid's last years in Philly and I don't see any evidence to indicate there was an excessive amount of dink-and-dunk. Plus, I never heard much of anything in the way of Philly fans complaining that their Offense was too conservative. Philly fans did complain about clock management. I believe this is mostly on Smith and the .gif image was one example, as many have criticized Reid's play-calling, but he called the right play in that situation & Hill wasn't just open on the play, he was wide-open and uncovered.

[ctchiefsfan]

I looked at the stats for the Eagles in Reid's last years in Philly and I don't see any evidence to indicate there was an excessive amount of dink-and-dunk. Plus, I never heard much of anything in the way of Philly fans complaining that their Offense was too conservative. Philly fans did complain about clock management. I believe this is mostly on Smith and the .gif image was one example, as many have criticized Reid's play-calling, but he called the right play in that situation & Hill wasn't just open on the play, he was wide-open and uncovered.

Just so. Reid has a habit of making QBs look good. Did it for a lot of years in Philly both for his starters and the QBs he traded away. He's done it here. By most stats Alex has had his best years in KC. They always had a safe option receiver. But I think his offense NEEDS a QB who deep down in his soul wants to make the big play but knows that his safety net is always going to be there...ESPECIALLY if we develop a reputation for being willing to stretch the field. That should only make the safety valve receiver more likely to be open.

Clock management....I don't think that will ever be one of Reid's strong suits, but then if you are scoring 28-35 points per game and have good Defense and Special Teams clock management just isn't quite as important.

I ADORE Alex for what he has done for our Chiefs but I'm excited about the prospect of eventually having an offense that is more aggressive.

[Chief Lukather 4Life]

I think the situation will clear itself up considerably as the year progresses. I can't say I'm worried about it. I'm just glad that we now have a super talented QB to develop, while still appreciating that we have an experienced vet QB that produces winning seasons.

[Chiefs4life24]

security” with Tyler Bray
by Matt Conner (http://arrowheadaddict.com/author/mconner1/)7 hours agoFollow @MattConnerAA (https://twitter.com/MattConnerAA)


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Andy Reid says the Kansas City Chiefs finally feel comfortable with Tyler Bray enough to let him back up Alex Smith in 2017.Last year before the regular season, John Dorsey made a surprising move. He dumped two of his drafted, developmental quarterbacks in Kevin Hogan and Aaron Murray for the sake of signing a veteran free agent, Nick Foles. Tyler Bray remained on the roster, hoping to have the chance to eventually earn the team’s trust so such a move wasn’t necessary.



Four years after joining the team, Bray has finally reached that moment. The former Tennessee Volunteer joined the team as an undrafted free agent in 2013 and has endured injuries and competition in that time to remain on the roster. That time spent learning plays, getting reps in camp, playing some preseason games and developing his own skills have finally translated into what Andy Reid termed “security” for 2017 (http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-2/What-We-Learned-from-Chiefs-Head-Coach-Andy-Reid-on-Thursday/26008496-d771-4984-ab62-b9a75b42548b).

He had a little bit of time last season, but for the most part, this is the first time he’s had the whole thing thrown at him and been expected to do it. He’s doing a nice job with it. Tyler is very much improved from where we initially got him. He’s to where we’ve got security and we feel he can go ahead and fill that spot.



The last line is key from Andy Reid. The Chiefs head coach admits the team now feels secure and that they can “go ahead and fill” the back-up quarterback slot. Bray has now earned his chance and heading into training camp, it seems as if every spot on the depth chart is already filled.
For Bray, the arm was always the gift, but he needed help with accuracy and transferring his game to the pro level. During his junior year at Tennessee, Bray completed 59.4% of his passes for 3,612 passing yards and 34 touchdowns with 12 interceptions, good for a solid 8.0 yards/attempt average.

[ctchiefsfan]

security” with Tyler Bray


by Matt Conner (http://arrowheadaddict.com/author/mconner1/)7 hours agoFollow @MattConnerAA (https://twitter.com/MattConnerAA)


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Andy Reid says the Kansas City Chiefs finally feel comfortable with Tyler Bray enough to let him back up Alex Smith in 2017.

Last year before the regular season, John Dorsey made a surprising move. He dumped two of his drafted, developmental quarterbacks in Kevin Hogan and Aaron Murray for the sake of signing a veteran free agent, Nick Foles. Tyler Bray remained on the roster, hoping to have the chance to eventually earn the team’s trust so such a move wasn’t necessary.



Four years after joining the team, Bray has finally reached that moment. The former Tennessee Volunteer joined the team as an undrafted free agent in 2013 and has endured injuries and competition in that time to remain on the roster. That time spent learning plays, getting reps in camp, playing some preseason games and developing his own skills have finally translated into what Andy Reid termed “security” for 2017 (http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-2/What-We-Learned-from-Chiefs-Head-Coach-Andy-Reid-on-Thursday/26008496-d771-4984-ab62-b9a75b42548b).
He had a little bit of time last season, but for the most part, this is the first time he’s had the whole thing thrown at him and been expected to do it. He’s doing a nice job with it. Tyler is very much improved from where we initially got him. He’s to where we’ve got security and we feel he can go ahead and fill that spot.




The last line is key from Andy Reid. The Chiefs head coach admits the team now feels secure and that they can “go ahead and fill” the back-up quarterback slot. Bray has now earned his chance and heading into training camp, it seems as if every spot on the depth chart is already filled.
For Bray, the arm was always the gift, but he needed help with accuracy and transferring his game to the pro level. During his junior year at Tennessee, Bray completed 59.4% of his passes for 3,612 passing yards and 34 touchdowns with 12 interceptions, good for a solid 8.0 yards/attempt average.

Thanks for posting that C4L! I hadn't seen that comment by Reid before. Makes me even more convinced that by 2019 we are going to see a VERY DIFFERENT type of offense than we've seen the last 4 years. With Mahomes and Bray (in no particular order) as #1 and #2 this is likely to become a team that goes all out to push the ball down the field. I am pretty much convinced Alex is gone in 2018 or 2019 and that we'll wind up with 2 QBs whose arms could launch an ICBM. I ADORE Alex and will be sorry to see him go but at the same time I'm excited about the future.

[brdempsey69]

Thanks for posting that C4L! I hadn't seen that comment by Reid before. Makes me even more convinced that by 2019 we are going to see a VERY DIFFERENT type of offense than we've seen the last 4 years. With Mahomes and Bray (in no particular order) as #1 and #2 this is likely to become a team that goes all out to push the ball down the field. I am pretty much convinced Alex is gone in 2018 or 2019 and that we'll wind up with 2 QBs whose arms could launch an ICBM. I ADORE Alex and will be sorry to see him go but at the same time I'm excited about the future.

No doubt that Bray still around and Murray and Hogan gone, and Mahomes drafted, we will see a transition to a gun-slinger at QB very soon for the Chiefs. The fact that they kept Bray around for so long ( this is his 5TH season) tells you they liked him & were willing to wait for him to mature, says something. Bray is not all that mobile and will need good pass protection, but if he gets it, he isn't afraid to wing the ball downfield.

I'll be sorry to see Alex go, if that does happen after this year, but we do know for certain that he did get a fair shake in KC.

[ctchiefsfan]

An interesting tidbit since Bray appears to now be the #2 QB....this year is the last year of his current contract. His current cap hit is $1.32 million. Assuming we can sign him to a new contract that is fairly cheap we'll have our #1 and #2 QB locked up under contract for 4-5 years for probably less than HALF what most teams pay their #1 QB ALONE. That should help get us out of this "cap hell" we've been in. That should put us in a position to pay good money to our key players. With this all falling into place nicely it again makes me think that Reid and Dorsey have been working on a long-term strategic plan.

[Chief Lukather 4Life]

So that is 17 million saved, after Smith is presumably taken off the books in 2018. Then there is 8 million saved from saying goodbye to D.J. Then another 7 million saved from saying goodbye to Hali. Then another 6 million saved by saying goodbye to Bailey. Jah Reid will very likely be gone for an additional 3.2 million dollar cap gain. Add in another 3 million cap gain by cutting free of Demetrius Harris and Frank Zombo by 2018.

That is over 44 million in cap room. For the most part, saying goodbye to players that should be looking at retirement, or are not going to add enough in their play to justify the cost.

Sorry if this is a poor thread for cap discussion, but the last post from CT got me to thinking more about it.


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[ctchiefsfan]

So that is 17 million saved, after Smith is presumably taken off the books in 2018. Then there is 8 million saved from saying goodbye to D.J. Then another 7 million saved from saying goodbye to Hali. Then another 6 million saved by saying goodbye to Bailey. Jah Reid will very likely be gone for an additional 3.2 million dollar cap gain. Add in another 3 million cap gain by cutting free of Demetrius Harris and Frank Zombo by 2018.

That is over 44 million in cap room. For the most part, saying goodbye to players that should be looking at retirement, or are not going to add enough in their play to justify the cost.

Sorry if this is a poor thread for cap discussion, but the last post from CT got me to thinking more about it.


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Thanks Chief Lukathor! It seems to me--and perhaps I am delusional--that the 2012 Chiefs were a good team that was simply very badly led. New leadership, new QB and the same basic team became competitive. We have good leadership now from GM on down and while both Reid and Dorsey have their faults I think they have a plan that can bring our Chiefs from simply competitive to being an honest Super Bowl competitor for many years to come. As we transition from the "old Chiefs" to the "new Chiefs" I suspect there will be a year or 3 that aren't as good as we would like. But so long as there is a clear PLAN I'm totally good. I just want to feel comfortable that management (Dorsey-Reid) actually have a plan rather than simply lurching from one crisis to the next.

You mentioned a LOT of cap possibilities and that maybe this wasn't the "right" thread to bring that up....How about starting a thread that talks about the cap not just for this year but for a few years to come? Reading your post it's CLEAR that you have a better handle on "cap issues" than I do and I'd really enjoy hearing what you have to say on the subject.

Regards....CT

[brdempsey69]

So that is 17 million saved, after Smith is presumably taken off the books in 2018. Then there is 8 million saved from saying goodbye to D.J. Then another 7 million saved from saying goodbye to Hali. Then another 6 million saved by saying goodbye to Bailey. Jah Reid will very likely be gone for an additional 3.2 million dollar cap gain. Add in another 3 million cap gain by cutting free of Demetrius Harris and Frank Zombo by 2018.

That is over 44 million in cap room. For the most part, saying goodbye to players that should be looking at retirement, or are not going to add enough in their play to justify the cost.

Sorry if this is a poor thread for cap discussion, but the last post from CT got me to thinking more about it.


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Thank you for that info. It isn't really off-topic at all in this thread given what CTC posted in his original post. I've seen a lot of people beeching and moaning about the Chiefs having signed players to long-term deals (Berry, Fisher, LDT, to name some) like they had it all figured out. You just proved that they DIDN'T have it all figured out.

[Chief Lukather 4Life]

Thank you for that info. It isn't really off-topic at all in this thread given what CTC posted in his original post. I've seen a lot of people beeching and moaning about the Chiefs having signed players to long-term deals (Berry, Fisher, LDT, to name some) like they had it all figured out. You just proved that they DIDN'T have it all figured out.

Some rough signings here and there, but in fairness, the injuries have really been a problem. Hard to account for those ahead of time. That, and it's hard to let go of players that were both so adored and productive at some stretch. Certain critical players must luck into staying healthy as they head into the postseason. That for me has been the most problematic obstacle.

This is not to overlook something else though. Our Chiefs have to break away from their conservative game-plan. This frustrating mentality is producing a lot of wins in the regular season, but it's not enough in the postseason. Andy Reid and Alex Smith have to adjust. My hope is that the signing of Mahomes was an indication that Reid is starting to get that message too. I have to figure gigabyte Smith is also paying attention to this.

Thanks, CT. I guess I know enough about the cap for the most part. I am sure we will all be taking a closer look as time goes by. I'm not much of a chess player to think 3 steps ahead though. That seems really difficult, because so much of a player's contract depends on their year to year play. No doubt, we will have some big names to look ahead for.

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as it is when the team drafted Patrick Mahomes, the beginning of the end for Alex Smith. It is either SB or bust!

[ctchiefsfan]

Some rough signings here and there, but in fairness, the injuries have really been a problem. Hard to account for those ahead of time. That, and it's hard to let go of players that were both so adored and productive at some stretch. Certain critical players must luck into staying healthy as they head into the postseason. That for me has been the most problematic obstacle.

Just so. We've had a couple of teams since Reid came to town that could make it to or even win a Super Bowl. But injuries down the stretch have killed us. That's football. We've done a GREAT job with "next man up" but it hasn't been enough when January rolled around. I'm 60 now so I remember the "glory years" and hate the Raiders above all teams but I honestly think I am going to see a Chiefs Super Bowl before I am 65.


This is not to overlook something else though. Our Chiefs have to break away from their conservative game-plan. This frustrating mentality is producing a lot of wins in the regular season, but it's not enough in the postseason. Andy Reid and Alex Smith have to adjust. My hope is that the signing of Mahomes was an indication that Reid is starting to get that message too. I have to figure gigabyte Smith is also paying attention to this.

Good point. And I think that Bray now being fairly clearly the #2 behind Alex combined with drafting Mahomes proves that Reid and Dorsey agree. Those two don't seem to be looking to be "good enough to keep their jobs". Instead they seem to be consumed with winning it all. I LIKE that!


Thanks, CT. I guess I know enough about the cap for the most part. I am sure we will all be taking a closer look as time goes by. I'm not much of a chess player to think 3 steps ahead though. That seems really difficult, because so much of a player's contract depends on their year to year play. No doubt, we will have some big names to look ahead for.

I'm just a Chiefs fan and have always been a "long distance" fan since the '60s. I've learned more about the Chiefs and the NFL in general by hanging out here than I did in about 40 years as a fan. One thing seems certain though...Dorsey will pay huge money for a player that PRODUCES and will discard that same player like a used kleenex if he stops producing. That's tough on us fans but I think it is what it takes to build a winner.

[Chiefster]

I'm excited to see what the kid can do, and think it prudent to have Smith bring him along. Smith is at the end of his career and it only makes sense to bring in a young promising buck to groom for the future.