Chiefs fire John Dorsey

[Eydugstr]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/22/chiefs-fire-g-m-john-dorsey/

Chiefs fire G.M. John Dorsey

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 22, 2017, 4:15 PM EDT
https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/350x-1011.jpg?w=250ADVANCE FOR WEEKEND EDITIONS, MARCH 9-10 – FILE – In this Jan. 14, 2013, file photo, Kansas City Chiefs general manager John Dorsey, left, poses with head coach Andy Reid during an NFL football news conference announcing Dorsey’s hiring in Kansas City, Mo. The new group in charge of the Chiefs is going right to work, making bold moves to turn around a franchise that went 2-14 last season. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel, File)"
AP
In a surprise announcement at what is ordinarily the slowest time of the year in the NFL, the Chiefs have fired General Manager John Dorsey.
The Chiefs issued a statement saying Dorsey is out.
“I notified John that we would not be extending his contract beyond the 2017 season, and after consideration, we felt it was in his best interests and the best interests of the team to part ways now,” owner Clark Hunt said in a statement.
That announcement came about half an hour after the Chiefs announced that head coach Andy Reid has signed a contract extension. That will obviously lead to speculation that perhaps Dorsey and Reid weren’t on the same page, and that Reid won a power struggle within the organization. Dorsey recently made the surprising decision to cut an old favorite of Reid’s, Jeremy Maclin (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5169/jeremy-maclin).
Dorsey is the third G.M. to be fired this offseason.

[matthewschiefs]

WHAT THE HELL UGH I'm not happy with a lot of this offseason

[Eydugstr]

No words. We were going into this season being the only stable organization in the AFC West and now we've managed to screw that up, too.

[brdempsey69]

UNBELIEVABLE!!

I sure hope that they have a good GM candidate in line to take his place & soon. Reid cannot do BOTH jobs. That was already proven in Philly. This has REALLY turned this entire off-season completely UPSIDE-DOWN. I'm wondering if the Maclin release had anything to do with this.

Granted, not all of the moves by Dorsey during his time in KC were good ones, but at least he helped bring respectability back to KC.

This could get VERY UGLY !!

[ctchiefsfan]

I'm sitting here with my mouth hanging open. Somebody please tell me that I'm confused and that today is April 1st.

[brdempsey69]

I'm sitting here with my mouth hanging open. Somebody please tell me that I'm confused and that today is April 1st.

I wish I could, but this is no April Fool's joke. This is for real. We can only hope for a worthy successor.

[Chiefs4life24]

Reid is getting an extension and will not take over the GM job, chiefs looking for a new gm

[ctchiefsfan]

I've been unpleasantly surprised by some oves by the Chiefs over the years but I can't remember every being as shocked as I am right now. Although that Christmas Day game in '71 is probably close.

My only criticism of Dorsey has been that he's not done a great job managing the cap. But since he had never been a GM before and so was doing OJT at cap management I figured he would figure that part of the job out.

I can only surmise that our cap situation is much worse than we know and that is what has led to this shocking move.

[kcvet]

Reid had a heavy hand in personnel during his prior stop in Philadelphia and might take on a larger role in Kansas City.. maybe??

[ctchiefsfan]

I wish I could, but this is no April Fool's joke. This is for real. We can only hope for a worthy successor.


Reid is getting an extension and will not take over the GM job, chiefs looking for a new gm

Reid is a guy that always wants "his guys" on the staff so I suspect he will pretty much get to hand-pick the new GM. It is no coincidence that Reid gets an extension and Dorsey gets fired on the same day. I just hope like hell that Reid isn't thinking about being Head Coach and GM again. I adore Reid as HC but HC and GM is simply too big a job for one man.

[Chiefs4life24]

we have 11 million in cap space, also the doesnt make us better in fact it hurts us dorsey was fantastic at finding those diamonds, like Mitchell last year and talent evaluation. plus this makes me very nervous for next years draft

[brdempsey69]

we have 11 million in cap space, also the doesnt make us better in fact it hurts us dorsey was fantastic at finding those diamonds, like Mitchell last year and talent evaluation. plus this makes me very nervous for next years draft

Agreed, this is completely BOMBSHELL. I suspect the trouble started with the Maclin release & how it was handled and the bad PR that followed.

[ctchiefsfan]

we have 11 million in cap space, also the doesnt make us better in fact it hurts us dorsey was fantastic at finding those diamonds, like Mitchell last year and talent evaluation. plus this makes me very nervous for next years draft

I couldn't agree with you more. Of course "cap space" is kind of a moving target and whatever actual cap space we have was created by the release of Maclin. But Dorsey's talent for finding great value in the later rounds of the draft as well as UDFA and other areas outside the draft has been huge. I just don't understand this.

[ctchiefsfan]

Agreed, this is completely BOMBSHELL. I suspect the trouble started with the Maclin release & how it was handled and the bad PR that followed.

Hell! This is a damned MOAB! I hate to think that this was all over the Maclin release. That was bad enough PR but this move isn't going to generate any good PR either. One PR disaster is not ameliorated by another.

[ctchiefsfan]

Speaking of PR.....We all remember JC's nasty comments after he signed with the Broncos. I suggest we all brace ourselves because I'm not convinced we won't see some from Dorsey. Like the Maclin release this is rather late to be firing a GM and I don't have a hard time imagining Dorsey feeling a bit bitter.

[brdempsey69]

Speaking of PR.....We all remember JC's nasty comments after he signed with the Broncos. I suggest we all brace ourselves because I'm not convinced we won't see some from Dorsey. Like the Maclin release this is rather late to be firing a GM and I don't have a hard time imagining Dorsey feeling a bit bitter.

I don't know about that & I suspect that Dorsey is headed back up north to GB, and may view this as a blessing in disguise whne it is all said and done.

[ctchiefsfan]

I don't know about that & I suspect that Dorsey is headed back up north to GB, and may view this as a blessing in disguise whne it is all said and done.

True....there was a lot of speculation earlier this year that GB wanted him back. I like Dorsey and wish him well. I just still can't quite wrap my head around the idea that we fired him.

[ctchiefsfan]

This doesn't tell us anything new, but it does make me wonder if there was some friction between Reid and Dorsey and that perhaps Dorsey simply lost a power struggle. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/22/chiefs-hope-to-replace-john-dorsey-by-the-start-of-training-camp/

[brdempsey69]

True....there was a lot of speculation earlier this year that GB wanted him back. I like Dorsey and wish him well. I just still can't quite wrap my head around the idea that we fired him.

I remember after the playoff loss to Indy that Dorsey said that he didn't believe in curses, but maybe he changed his mind after 4 seasons with three playoff failures & maybe he told Hunt that he wanted his walking papers. Speculation, of course, but you can't get around the 4-15 record in the post-season since 1970.

And what now, regarding the upcoming season? Does this event cause a shockwave that they won't be able to recover from & does the 2017 season go completely in the tank?

[ctchiefsfan]

I remember after the playoff loss to Indy that Dorsey said that he didn't believe in curses, but maybe he changed his mind after 4 seasons with three playoff failures & maybe he told Hunt that he wanted his walking papers. Speculation, of course, but you can't get around the 4-15 record in the post-season since 1970.

No you can't. But a GM or Coach with any balls would take that as a challenge to be overcome.


And what now, regarding the upcoming season? Does this event cause a shockwave that they won't be able to recover from & does the 2017 season go completely in the tank?

And that right there is the real question....JC, Poe, Maclin, Dorsey. The Maclin release made me worried about this season. This latest certainly doesn't make me feel any better.

[brdempsey69]

....... The Maclin release made me worried about this season. This latest certainly doesn't make me feel any better.

I'm going to put up a quote from this thread over here, because there is truth to what this guy is saying

http://arrowheadone.com/nfl-chiefs-keep-reid-fire-dorsey/


.......you can't really believe he is the best one (Eric Berry at Safety). Very good, but not the best. As for the salary which was said to be the highest paid safety. I would much rather have the cap space. Maclin was a casualty of the salary paid to Berry and it is likely that we may have to let more players go next year and we still have several positions that are going to have to be negotiated with next year. so even tho it has occurred to Clark that he will never see another super bowl when the cap and dead money is driving the team into a position where it is hard to make improvement to the team. I believe that it is good business sense to not overpay any player at any position. We should concentrate on having a balanced team rather than a team with a few overpaid stars and pick ups from other teams who are unable to make it on other better teams.

There is truth to what is shown in BOLD in the quote above, and if I had my choice, I would have rather kept kept Maclin and let Berry walk. It won't surprise me at all if Maclin STARS in his new surroundings in Baltimore, while Berry flounders in KC this season (he's already been said to be having a heel problem).

Granted, Berry had a great season last year, but in my judgement, it was time to move on. The value just isn't there for the amount of money they paid Berry & it already seems to be having a negative effect -- HUGELY!! Look at the Chiefs 1st game against NE to open the season. If Brady and Gronkowski are able to get Berry isolated in one-on-one situations, they will take Berry to the cleaners every single time, just like they did in the 2015 playoff game.

[slc chief]

Stupid flat out stupid

[Eydugstr]

I'm going to put up a quote from this thread over here, because there is truth to what this guy is saying

http://arrowheadone.com/nfl-chiefs-keep-reid-fire-dorsey/



There is truth to what is shown in BOLD in the quote above, and if I had my choice, I would have rather kept kept Maclin and let Berry walk. It won't surprise me at all if Maclin STARS in his new surroundings in Baltimore, while Berry flounders in KC this season (he's already been said to be having a heel problem).

Granted, Berry had a great season last year, but in my judgement, it was time to move on. The value just isn't there for the amount of money they paid Berry & it already seems to be having a negative effect -- HUGELY!! Look at the Chiefs 1st game against NE to open the season. If Brady and Gronkowski are able to get Berry isolated in one-on-one situations, they will take Berry to the cleaners every single time, just like they did in the 2015 playoff game.

If that's the case, then it's not just Maclin...It would be Poe as well (much more devastating to the team). Guess we'll know when teams march through our D-line at will, and we find ourselves relying on Berry to make a bigger number of tackles.

[ctchiefsfan]

An interesting post Demps. The cap business is what I was trying to get at earlier. It was in fact Dorsey's weakness. But when you hire someone who has never been a GM before and has therefore never managed cap space before there is certain to be a "learning curve". Dorsey may well have been a victim of not learning cap-management quickly enough.

As to EB...You have to love the guy's story. Cancer and back playing NFL football at a very high level in less than a year. AMAZING. But Berry is different than most Safeties. His play day to day is very good. But not the best in the NFL by any stretch. But he is an insane ball-hawk. INTs and pass break-ups are what makes him amongst the "elite" at safety instead of just good. Of course as Justin Houston and many others in years gone by have shown us many players have a bad habit of getting that "mega-deal" and then not playing up to the standards they did when they were trying to get that big deal. I surely hope that won't happen with EB.

Was Maclin a "cap-casualty" due to the EB deal? I don't know. But no doubt it is plausible. But you also mentioned in a post shortly after Maclin was released a quote from another site suggesting that Maclin had a bum ankle and couldn't cut like he used to. Which is true? I don't know. But I suspect we'll find out this year.

All in all, I'm inclined to believe that Dorsey was fired because he really didn't know how to manage the cap. But I can't get too mad at him for that because he had never been a GM before and had never managed cap space before. When you hire someone to do a job they've never done before you can't expect them to become an expert overnight. Dorsey was REALLY GOOD at some parts of his job...and not so good at others.

Above all, I hope that this does not lead to Andy Reid being some sort of GM and HC. As I recall, that was pretty much his job description when we first hired him but he quickly convinced Hunt to bring in Dorsey and happily relinquished the GM job to Dorsey. Andy Reid is a great HC. But HC and GM is just too much for him. I know what it's like to get promoted beyond my abilities.

[jason1981]

Im worried about drafting. Dorsey seemed to good at finding gems late in draft and you need that if u want to be good. And hell no as reid as gm.

[matthewschiefs]

An interesting post Demps. The cap business is what I was trying to get at earlier. It was in fact Dorsey's weakness. But when you hire someone who has never been a GM before and has therefore never managed cap space before there is certain to be a "learning curve". Dorsey may well have been a victim of not learning cap-management quickly enough.

As to EB...You have to love the guy's story. Cancer and back playing NFL football at a very high level in less than a year. AMAZING. But Berry is different than most Safeties. His play day to day is very good. But not the best in the NFL by any stretch. But he is an insane ball-hawk. INTs and pass break-ups are what makes him amongst the "elite" at safety instead of just good. Of course as Justin Houston and many others in years gone by have shown us many players have a bad habit of getting that "mega-deal" and then not playing up to the standards they did when they were trying to get that big deal. I surely hope that won't happen with EB.

Was Maclin a "cap-casualty" due to the EB deal? I don't know. But no doubt it is plausible. But you also mentioned in a post shortly after Maclin was released a quote from another site suggesting that Maclin had a bum ankle and couldn't cut like he used to. Which is true? I don't know. But I suspect we'll find out this year.

All in all, I'm inclined to believe that Dorsey was fired because he really didn't know how to manage the cap. But I can't get too mad at him for that because he had never been a GM before and had never managed cap space before. When you hire someone to do a job they've never done before you can't expect them to become an expert overnight. Dorsey was REALLY GOOD at some parts of his job...and not so good at others.

Above all, I hope that this does not lead to Andy Reid being some sort of GM and HC. As I recall, that was pretty much his job description when we first hired him but he quickly convinced Hunt to bring in Dorsey and happily relinquished the GM job to Dorsey. Andy Reid is a great HC. But HC and GM is just too much for him. I know what it's like to get promoted beyond my abilities.

This is about the only thing I can think of. Can't think of anything else that it could have been

[Chiefs4life24]

I've seen that Dorsey butted heads with Hunt over the last couple of months and it has a lot to do with Berry's contract, apparently Hunt had to step in and make it happen

[brdempsey69]

I've seen that Dorsey butted heads with Hunt over the last couple of months and it has a lot to do with Berry's contract, apparently Hunt had to step in and make it happen

That the whole paradox. Berry's resigning didn't really need to happen, as he stinks in pass coverage and is very easily replaceable. They already have Sorensen and 2nd-year man Eric Murray (who was said to be looking good in the OTA's filling in for Berry). If Dorsey wasn't on board with resigning Berry to that ridiculously over-priced contract, then I don't blame him one bit & Dorsey may have cut Maclin just to shove it up Clark Hunt's arse. Kind of like saying "Okay, buddy boy, you want to overpay your hero-worship icon, it's going to cost you the team's most experienced WR".

If the question had been posed right after the draft "would you rather have John Dorsey stay in KC, or would you rather have Eric Berry stay in KC, because you can't have both". Quite obvious that the majority -- myself included -- would have said Dorsey.

[Seek]

I think there is a ton of things that play into this. But after the season when teams were looking at Chris Ballard and the Chiefs refused some interviews. There was all this talk of Dorsey going back to Green Bay. I think the writing was on the wall then and has snowballed since.

Lets face it, Dorsey has done a great job, but made a lot of mistakes on the salary cap side that is embarrassing the Chiefs organization when we have to let players go, just to sign draft picks are burning cap with aged or hurt players.

Dorsey was probably asking for a contract extension and more pay, using Green Bay as leverage. Clark is looking at these mistakes and saying, I don't think so. Go ahead an leave for Green Bay.

[matthewschiefs]

That the whole paradox. Berry's resigning didn't really need to happen, as he stinks in pass coverage and is very easily replaceable. They already have Sorensen and 2nd-year man Eric Murray (who was said to be looking good in the OTA's filling in for Berry). If Dorsey wasn't on board with resigning Berry to that ridiculously over-priced contract, then I don't blame him one bit & Dorsey may have cut Maclin just to shove it up Clark Hunt's arse. Kind of like saying "Okay, buddy boy, you want to overpay your hero-worship icon, it's going to cost you the team's most experienced WR".

If the question had been posed right after the draft "would you rather have John Dorsey stay in KC, or would you rather have Eric Berry stay in KC, because you can't have both". Quite obvious that the majority -- myself included -- would have said Dorsey.

I don't think I can agree here Demps.

My NBA team lives by the modo go with Front office guys over talent it has been terrible. It's a lot easier to find a replacement in the FO then it is to find a replacement for a key player.

[ctchiefsfan]

This is about the only thing I can think of. Can't think of anything else that it could have been

I'm inclined to agree. But I just read an article by Sam Mellinger http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article157737484.html who theorizes that much as the Chiefs were in the process of reworking Reid's deal they were also looking to do an extension for Dorsey and that Dorsey insisted on a clause or clauses that Hunt simply found unacceptable. I find it hard to imagine anything that Dorsey would have demanded that would not only be a deal killer but would also get him fired but certainly that idea seems no more far-fetched than Dorsey getting fired in the first place. So who knows?

I've leaned towards the idea that this was all about the cap problems yet at the same time Dorsey had recently fired our Cap Specialist (Trip MacCracken) which seems to have been an effort to try to start fixing the cap-hell we've been in the last 3 years. So if Dorsey was actively taking measures to try to fix the problem why do you fire him? Generally in business if a manager is taking steps to fix a problem then more senior management gives them time to try to fix it.

All in all I'm just as confused as all hell about this situation.

[Eydugstr]

I've seen that Dorsey butted heads with Hunt over the last couple of months and it has a lot to do with Berry's contract, apparently Hunt had to step in and make it happen

C4L - can you post a link to that story?

[ctchiefsfan]

C4L - can you post a link to that story?

Dugstr....I too have seen some mention of there being a bit of contention or "head butting" as well. Wish I could point you at something solid but I've read so many of them that would know where to go to find a specific article to link here. But it's all been in stories that have come out since the firing and it been more along the lines of conjecture than any affirmative statement and it's been in articles that also mentioned other possibilities. I've read numerous articles from many sources and like us guys here none of them seems to know any more than any of us.

I have come to the conclusion that as things stand at the moment there are 1, 2 or at most 3 people that actually know why Dorsey was fired. Hunt, Dorsey and maybe Reid. And right now ain't none of them talking.

I saw an interesting vid by Terez Paylor and he did a lot of speculating (just like us) as to why this happened but his most telling comment was that he said that his usual "inside sources" were all as surprised as we are and had no idea why this happened. He leaned towards the theory that something got rancorous in extension talks between Hunt and Dorsey--probably about money or perhaps some "poison pill clause" (like the right to get out of his contract any time he wanted to go back to GB) that Dorsey wanted in the contract and that Hunt simply wouldn't budge. But all-in-all Paylor was very clear that he really didn't know anything more than anyone else.

I think it is going to be a long time before any of us really know...IF EVER.

You can find the Paylor vid burried in this KC Star article.... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article157737484.html Be advised....there is no audio for the first 30 seconds to 1 minute.

And here is an article by Paylor on the subject in which he basically says nobody has a clue. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article157640884.html

[Eydugstr]

Dugstr....I too have seen some mention of there being a bit of contention or "head butting" as well. Wish I could point you at something solid but I've read so many of them that would know where to go to find a specific article to link here. But it's all been in stories that have come out since the firing and it been more along the lines of conjecture than any affirmative statement and it's been in articles that also mentioned other possibilities. I've read numerous articles from many sources and like us guys here none of them seems to know any more than any of us.

I have come to the conclusion that as things stand at the moment there are 1, 2 or at most 3 people that actually know why Dorsey was fired. Hunt, Dorsey and maybe Reid. And right now ain't none of them talking.

I saw an interesting vid by Terez Paylor and he did a lot of speculating (just like us) as to why this happened but his most telling comment was that he said that his usual "inside sources" were all as surprised as we are and had no idea why this happened. He leaned towards the theory that something got rancorous in extension talks between Hunt and Dorsey--probably about money or perhaps some "poison pill clause" (like the right to get out of his contract any time he wanted to go back to GB) that Dorsey wanted in the contract and that Hunt simply wouldn't budge. But all-in-all Paylor was very clear that he really didn't know anything more than anyone else.

I think it is going to be a long time before any of us really know...IF EVER.

You can find the Paylor vid burried in this KC Star article.... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article157737484.html Be advised....there is no audio for the first 30 seconds to 1 minute.

And here is an article by Paylor on the subject in which he basically says nobody has a clue. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article157640884.html

TY for the links, ctc - I'm not trying to start an argument, C4L has posted a ton of much appreciated news/opinions on here, most of which comes to pass. But on this one I'd like to see as many cards on the table as possible. There's a lot of local sports talk radio that I just don't buy into, especially with something like this. Think of the old Reagan saying "Trust but verify...".

[ctchiefsfan]

TY for the links, ctc - I'm not trying to start an argument, C4L has posted a ton of much appreciated news/opinions on here, most of which comes to pass. But on this one I'd like to see as many cards on the table as possible. There's a lot of local sports talk radio that I just don't buy into, especially with something like this. Think of the old Reagan saying "Trust but verify...".

Dugstr...I'm sure C4L took no offense. And my post was in NO WAY intended to suggest that you shouldn't have asked him for some links. We're all trying to figure out what made this happen and anxious to read anything we can on the subject. I just saw your post and figured I'd chime in, give you a few links and my thoughts on the subject.

I've been following this story all over the web for about 24 hours now and to be honest the only conclusion I can come to is that outside of Hunt, Dorsey and MAYBE Reid NOBODY really knows what caused this. More theories on the web than fleas on a stray dog.

[brdempsey69]

Now comes the big question: who will the next GM be? Let's hope he's a good one and not another Pioli.

[Chiefs4life24]

They are looking externally and internally one name that pops up is Brett Veach

[ctchiefsfan]

Now comes the big question: who will the next GM be? Let's hope he's a good one and not another Pioli.

That's the 900 pound gorilla in the room. But I have an absolute LUNATIC idea (that I stole from another site) that I would like to propose to the group. Comments, flames, etc are WELCOME.

So here is the CRAZY idea. Let's be honest. We are all in shock. Us fans are shaken. I don't know how the players feel but I have to imagine they are a little shook up too. JC, Poe and Maclin gone. Alex Smith on his way out. DJ and Tamba also hanging by a thread. There isn't much in the way of potential GMs out there on the open market. Too late in the year. We let Ballard go to the damned Colts so the obvious replacement for Dorsey is already gone. The ship is in a hurricane, the Captain just went overboard and I'm wondering if the owner of the ship isn't drunk and passed out in his cabin. We NEED an immediate GM replacement to give the fans and the players a sense that everything is actually under control. We need to get back a sense of STABILITY. Rushing a choice for a new GM would be a MISTAKE. We need some TIME to find Dorsey's replacement but we need someone to create a sense of STABILITY and CONFIDENCE while we conduct an ORDERLY search for a new GM.

Ask Dick Vermeil to take command as "Interim GM". 6-8 months.

He wouldn't do it as a long term "job". He's enjoying being a "gentleman winery owner". But he is a friend of Reid so no conflict there and he is well respected. He's got a Super Bowl ring and surely knows football. He would soothe all the frayed nerves and give fans and players a sense of confidence while he and Hunt conducted an un-rushed search for a new GM. In short he'd be a respected figurehead that bought us some time to conduct a sensible search for a new GM.

What do y'all think? Has the shock of losing Dorsey caused me to completely lose my mind?

[Chiefs4life24]

One thing is for sure Dick would draft really well

[ctchiefsfan]

One thing is for sure Dick would draft really well

I highly doubt DV would take the job as more than an "interim GM" and I'm not at all sure he'd be a good GM long term if he would even take the job. Though if he wanted to make a comeback as Chiefs GM I would support it 100%. But IMO the Chiefs are in "crisis mode" and I think that IMMEDIATELY naming DV as "interim GM" would settle things down and alleviate the bad ju-ju that is coming with this move and the other releases this year. All indications suggest he is ENJOYING his retirement from football to being a "gentleman farmer". And I can't begrudge him that. But if I were Hunt I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW begging DV to come in as "interim GM" for 6-8-10 months. At most through next years draft. Reid and DV are friends, so no problem there. I honestly think that this move would be in the best interests of the Chiefs.

[jason1981]

That's the 900 pound gorilla in the room. But I have an absolute LUNATIC idea (that I stole from another site) that I would like to propose to the group. Comments, flames, etc are WELCOME.

So here is the CRAZY idea. Let's be honest. We are all in shock. Us fans are shaken. I don't know how the players feel but I have to imagine they are a little shook up too. JC, Poe and Maclin gone. Alex Smith on his way out. DJ and Tamba also hanging by a thread. There isn't much in the way of potential GMs out there on the open market. Too late in the year. We let Ballard go to the damned Colts so the obvious replacement for Dorsey is already gone. The ship is in a hurricane, the Captain just went overboard and I'm wondering if the owner of the ship isn't drunk and passed out in his cabin. We NEED an immediate GM replacement to give the fans and the players a sense that everything is actually under control. We need to get back a sense of STABILITY. Rushing a choice for a new GM would be a MISTAKE. We need some TIME to find Dorsey's replacement but we need someone to create a sense of STABILITY and CONFIDENCE while we conduct an ORDERLY search for a new GM.

Ask Dick Vermeil to take command as "Interim GM". 6-8 months.

He wouldn't do it as a long term "job". He's enjoying being a "gentleman winery owner". But he is a friend of Reid so no conflict there and he is well respected. He's got a Super Bowl ring and surely knows football. He would soothe all the frayed nerves and give fans and players a sense of confidence while he and Hunt conducted an un-rushed search for a new GM. In short he'd be a respected figurehead that bought us some time to conduct a sensible search for a new GM.

What do y'all think? Has the shock of losing Dorsey caused me to completely lose my mind?

No to vermeil as GM. He was a good coach cuz he was a good motivator but that dont mean hes a good talent valuater. I dont his skills translate to a GM.

What makes me nervous is can we find a great talent evaluator to be our next GM. Thats proven?

[Chiefs4life24]

I'm hoping its Brett Veach

[ctchiefsfan]

No to vermeil as GM. He was a good coach cuz he was a good motivator but that dont mean hes a good talent valuater. I dont his skills translate to a GM.

What makes me nervous is can we find a great talent evaluator to be our next GM. Thats proven?

More than fair enough, but my thought was not DV as the GM. Just the "interim" or "caretaker GM" for a few months to give us some stability while we found a good replacement for Dorsey. Just to try to get back some stability. The situation right now is a MESS! Having an "interim GM" with the respect of DV would IMO help get things back on an even keel.

[jason1981]

More than fair enough, but my thought was not DV as the GM. Just the "interim" or "caretaker GM" for a few months to give us some stability while we found a good replacement for Dorsey. Just to try to get back some stability. The situation right now is a MESS! Having an "interim GM" with the respect of DV would IMO help get things back on an even keel.

Again vermeil as intern wouldnt be any good ciz either way we need a talent evaluator with training camp and preseason coming along we camt afford to loose out on that part of turning over the bottom of our roster to see whats out there. Im thinking we will promote from within to keep continuity and less turnover in offices and scouting departments. I just dont know enoigh about anyone if there great at evaluating and finding talent thats hard to find. Im not talking like obvious players with talent but finding gems that go under the radar. Like our de rookie who was a large unkown but the more we find out the more we see how mucj talent he has amd the potential. But also like say sorenson and peiple late rounds that can turn into a big contributor.

[jason1981]

Lets go after mike mayock from nfl.com i think he would be great.

[Chiefs4life24]

Been hearing Management style and Communication were reasons Dorsey was fired

[ctchiefsfan]

I'm hoping its Brett Veach

C4L....If you have a moment could you expand on the reasons Veach get's named as GM? I don't know a huge amount about him and you seem to have some damned good "sources" so I'd appreciate it you'd take the time to go into a bit more detail.

[ctchiefsfan]

Again vermeil as intern wouldnt be any good ciz either way we need a talent evaluator with training camp and preseason coming along we camt afford to loose out on that part of turning over the bottom of our roster to see whats out there. Im thinking we will promote from within to keep continuity and less turnover in offices and scouting departments. I just dont know enoigh about anyone if there great at evaluating and finding talent thats hard to find. Im not talking like obvious players with talent but finding gems that go under the radar. Like our de rookie who was a large unkown but the more we find out the more we see how mucj talent he has amd the potential. But also like say sorenson and peiple late rounds that can turn into a big contributor.

I can't argue with that. The talents you mentioned that Dorsey had are HUGE! Those QUALITY late-round picks and UDFAs are extraordinarily important. They make "next man up" work, they can help with the cap and we need only look at Tyreek Hill and Spencer Ware to see how important being able to properly evaluate guys that some teams don't want to touch can be. I cede your point.

[Chiefs4life24]

C4L....If you have a moment could you expand on the reasons Veach get's named as GM? I don't know a huge amount about him and you seem to have some damned good "sources" so I'd appreciate it you'd take the time to go into a bit more detail.


Let’s get to know Brett Veach, the Chiefs in-house GM candidate41 (https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/6/26/15862256/lets-get-to-know-brett-veach-the-chiefs-in-house-gm-candidate#comments)


by stagdsp (https://www.sbnation.com/users/stagdsp)@stagdsp (http://www.twitter.com/stagdsp) Jun 26, 2017, 9:40am CDT



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https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pYxtEiN6g1aN0M7L2azuND7YRjA=/0x0:400x400/1200x800/filters:focal(168x168:232x232)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/55443315/049bfa9.0.jpgWith John Dorsey’s surprise firing, we’re scrambling to figure out how the Chiefs (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/kansas-city-chiefs) replace him. Listen to Terez Paylor’s Facebook chat (https://www.facebook.com/RedZoneExtra/videos/vb.973145222814971/1231871240275700/?type=2&theater) from earlier this week. He talked a lot about how this is typically vacation time for the NFL, and the Chiefs may have a hard time getting outside candidates in to interview.



The unusual timing of Dorsey’s dismissal also means that the new GM really has to hit the ground running. Training camp (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/22/chiefs-hope-to-replace-john-dorsey-by-the-start-of-training-camp/)is coming soon, as are roster cuts, both for the Chiefs and the other 31 teams. Whoever takes over this role needs to have deep familiarity with the Chiefs roster, and with what Andy Reid values in a player. He has to understand Reid’s scheme, and the makeup of the Chiefs locker room. He needs to be able to make quick decisions when players become available, and know which players on the current roster are vital to retain.
The team has valued consistency (as the guys from Amateur Hour pointed out (https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/6/23/15860564/chiefs-podcast-the-john-dorsey-episode)) since the big purge following the catastrophic 2012 season. It’s worked well for the Chiefs, as they’ve returned to the upper tiers of NFL teams, competing for division titles and even winning a playoff game again.
These and other signs point to the team looking at in-house candidates to take over the General Manager job. Some assumed that Andy Reid would want to take on more responsibility for personnel, but that’s been largely refuted.




The biggest name remaining in the Chiefs personnel department is Brett Veach. Veach was recently a candidate for the Buffalo GM job, even earning the endorsement (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707587-lesean-mccoy-campaigns-for-bills-to-hire-brett-veach-as-next-gm-on-twitter)of star RB Shady McCoy.



Brett is currently the Chiefs co-director of player personnel, and he has a stellar reputation as a scout’s scout. Sound familiar? It should, Veach has followed a career path that is similar in many ways to John Dorsey.
Quotes on VeachScouts are largely anonymous to NFL fans, so we have to go by what other people say about them. Below are some quotes and information that help paint a picture of Brett Veach.




A good piece on Veach from CSNPhilly (http://www.csnphilly.com/eagles-lose-top-scout-brett-veach-chiefs).


“Veach first broke into the NFL as an intern with the Eagles (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/philadelphia-eagles) in 2004 and was later hired as Reid’s assistant in 2007. He ascended quickly in the front office and was considered one of the team’s keenest scouts.”
“Basically, an opportunity presented itself in Kansas City to be a part of Coach Reid’s staff again and [general manager] John Dorsey staff, and it was an opportunity I was excited about,” Veach, a native of Mount Carmel, Pa., and former University of Delaware standout, told CSNPhilly.com.”
“Veach said he left on great terms with the Eagles, calling his time there “six unbelievable years” of learning under general manager Howie Roseman, former player personnel chief Ryan Grigson (now the Colts (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/indianapolis-colts)’ general manager) and director of college scouting Anthony Patch.”
“Those guys taught me everything I know to this point,” Veach said. “You’re talking about three really sharp minds that I learned from every day.”
“Veach was assigned to study wide receivers in 2008 leading up to the draft. That year, the Eagles picked DeSean Jackson in the second round.”

From Twitter, Veach has been getting plenty of chatter as a GM candidate.


“Next in line from Kansas City? Keep an eye on Brett Veach. Has been climbing the ladder there. Great reputation as a scout's scout”- Matt Miller (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/254688/matt-miller)
“Name to watch in Buffalo is Brett Veach. Worked with Sean in Philly & is highly respected by Andy Reid & all the Philly people. In KC now”- Joe Banner
“If it doesn't happen this year, it'll happen very soon. Veach is a future GM.”- Matt Miller

Read this piece (http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-2/From-Philly-to-Kansas-City-One-Chiefs-Scout-Shares-His-Journey/6e4c690a-1e7d-4765-a397-e4a210b1f5c6) on Veach from our own BJ Kissel, now reporting for the mothership. We see a lot of close ties to Andy Reid and some insight into his potential philosophy as a GM.


"My first role with the Eagles was coach Reid's assistant,” Veach explained of the position he held from 2007 to 2009. “Really, if you follow the track of that position, most of the time people in that position go on to a coaching career. I had luck on my side in that [Reid] was doing a lot of personnel at the time, so it was natural for him to give me assignments that were more personnel-based.”
“Interestingly enough, Veach spent his collegiate career catching passes from Chiefs quarterbacks coach Matt Nagy (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/79383/matt-nagy), who played for the Blue Hens (1997-2000) before joining Reid and Veach in Philadelphia in 2008 as a coaching intern.”
“You look at that track record and knowing that they really do it the blue-collar way, where you just roll the sleeves up, go to work, watch tape, not going to dabble a lot in free agency; it's really going to be all about the draft and creating your own culture. That was something that you’re really excited about in regards to that opportunity."

More ...
This (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.arrowheadpride.com/platform/amp/2016/6/14/11932894/chiefs-front-office-member-had-a-role-in-eagles-drafting-fletcher-cox) is an exciting example of his eye for talent - he pounded the table for Fletcher Cox (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/152659/fletcher-cox) while with the Eagles.


Definitely give this podcast (https://www.buzzsprout.com/32365/252990-chiefs-download-chris-ballard-mike-borgonzi-and-brett-veach-3-10-2015) a listen, it features interviews with Veach (starting around 24-minute mark) along with Chris Ballard and Mike Borgonzi (another potential in-house candidate)


Veach indicates he has a dual role in scouting pro players (for cut downs) and traveling to scout college players. (this is great preparation for a GM role)
Veach discussed how the back end of the roster is critical, and the Josh Mauga (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/104497/josh-mauga) and Husain Abdullah (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34574/husain-abdullah) signings were the types of free agents that pay dividends.

The likely favorite?If Brett Veach isn’t the clear favorite for the job, at a minimum, he’d be the least disruptive candidate the Chiefs could hire. Veach is clearly an “Andy Reid guy” and wants to build through the draft. Based on the interview in the podcast, he’s a very humble, team oriented guy that loves scouting, and loves the staff the Chiefs have assembled. He’s got a great background as a player, coach, and scout. He’s got a stellar reputation and has steadily risen through the ranks over his career. His scouting resume includes Pro Bowl players Fletcher Cox and DeShaun Jackson. He knows the Chiefs roster, and has experience scouting both pro and college players. He knows what Reid is looking for in players, and how to find guy that fit his system. If there’s one guy that could step in and keep the Chiefs on the same trajectory as they’ve started with Reid and Dorsey, it’s Brett Veach. And, by all accounts, if the Chiefs don’t promote him, someone else will.

[brdempsey69]

Thanks for the bio on Veach, C4L. It does sound like he is the leading candidate. I say, let's roll the dice with him.

[ctchiefsfan]

OUTSTANDING C4L! You sold Demps and now you've sold me. Veach seems like the right guy.