The case against Andy Reid

[matthewschiefs]

I'm going to start by saying that Andy Reid was the right hire for the Chiefs in 2013. And he deserves a lot of credit for how far this team has come since the time he was hired. That was then and this is now. And now this team needs to move away from Andy Reid. Some feel that this is an overreaction so let me lay out my case in full.

Charge #1 PLAYCALLING!!!! This is something I think that we have all been frustrated with time and time again over the past few years. I know that I have been harping on this for years now. In postgame after postgame loss pressers, he has said over and over again that he has to do a better job in that. And yet the following week we see the SAME thing. Does he really recognize the problem? Or can he just not stop himself from running the failed plays? Either way, it has been something that has haunted him his entire NFL head coaching career. And if he hasn't learned in what is now 20 seasons will he ever? Yesterday it was reported he was giving up the duties but still overseeing the offense. And for the most part, the offense REALLY went well. But then like normal Andy just couldn't help himself. You have a defense that is struggling the ball and a 3rd and 1 you take out one of the best TEs in the NFL and call a play to get an O-linemen the ball? Surprise surprise it failed. Some might question if Andy called the play or Naggy? At the end of the day, Andy is the head coach and has the final call regardless. He just couldn't help himself one way or the other he allowed it to happen.

Charge #2 Discipline. We have seen this really stick out this season. Kelce has had a couple of them already and Peters did yesterday. We saw it some last season as well. You are damn right that you can put a lot of the blame for the guys losing their cool. But when you have so many cases of this it stands out. And as a head coach, it's your job to get this fixed. He hasn't. You can tell a lot about a coach by the discipline that his team has. And in this area, we have seen some very lackluster times. Between just bad penalties or plays losing it on the field, they don't have the discipline of a championship team.

Charge #3 Clock management. Like charge 1 this has been something that has haunted Andy his entire head coaching career. It is not quite at the level as the playcalling issue. But like the playcalling issue, I think this has been something that has left us all frustrated from time to time. While I can't point to one big thing in this regard relating to yesterdays game I can recall the time it bugged me the most. Going back to the playoff loss to the Pats. Late in the game Chiefs have the ball clock ticking way too much camera shows Andy just shaking his head. Doing nothing about it. And that time would come back to haunt the Chiefs in that playoff loss.

I'm not going to even pretend to say the Andy Reid shouldn't be an NFL head coach. If you are a team that is in need of being turned around then he is without a doubt a very good option to bring in to get things started. He is deserving of being one of the 32 guys that are an NFL head coach. But you are not going to get a championship level with him. He lacks the ability to fix the weakness in his teams. As I stated at the start he was the right hire for the position the Chiefs were in at that time. But now is the time it's time to move on. He has gone as far as he will go. It's time to move on from Andy Reid IMO If he could fix these issues I think he would have in the 20 years he has been an NFL coach.

[Eydugstr]

Don't see Clark moving on from Reid unless Reid delivers a couple of 4-12 seasons. Will add one more gripe to your list through: Strength and Conditioning. We have too many critical players on crutches, and the majority of the team looks like it's lost a lot of steam.

What I am curious about, is the situation with Veach replacing Dorsey. Unfortunately we won't really know how good or bad Veach is until midway through next season.

[matthewschiefs]

Don't see Clark moving on from Reid unless Reid delivers a couple of 4-12 seasons. Will add one more gripe to your list through: Strength and Conditioning. We have too many critical players on crutches, and the majority of the team looks like it's lost a lot of steam.

What I am curious about, is the situation with Veach replacing Dorsey. Unfortunately we won't really know how good or bad Veach is until midway through next season.

Oh, I know that it's very unlikely that Reid is going anywhere. But I really think they should

I did forget to add more other Charge so I'll do it now.

Charge #4 Inconsistent play. One of the true marks of a great NFL coach is that their teams don't often have too many slumps. This has not been the case under Andy Reid. Starting with his first season. Yes, we started 9-0 but then we lost 3 in a row then 3 in a row to end the season if you include the playoff loss to the Colts. We all know the story of the 2015 Chiefs yes we won those 11 games in a row and the first round playoff win. But we still started the season losing 5 out of 6. This has been a trend with Reid teams since 2005 going back to look at his Eagles teams. You see many years with losing streaks of 3 in a row or 3 out of 4. While that was not the case for the 2016 Chiefs that has not been the norm. And this is a sign that coaching is an issue for a team.

[Seek]

Here is my problem, The Chiefs did nothing this off season to sure up obvious holes. Instead they made more but letting Maclin go.

I have been worried about our secondary since day one. We couldn't name who or second starting corner was when the season started. Throw in the injury to EB and this secondary is what it is.

Now the lack of run support is discouraging.

We have holes that wont be fixed next year because we traded away many quality draft picks and cap issues.

Now if Andy as complete control of this team. He has a lot to fix.

[ctchiefsfan]

Personally, I think we are all over-reacting a bit. Myself included. We're all frustrated as hell. Not surprising either. Something has gone HORRIBLY WRONG this season but honestly I don't think any of us know what it is. I sure don't. For 4 years Sutton ran some of the best Defenses in the NFL. This year not so much. But some people want to fire Sutton. For 4 years Reid had the best won-loss percentage of any Chiefs coach in history. At the end of this year he may still. But some people want to fire Reid. For 4 years Toub had one of the best Special Teams in the NFL. This year not so much. Some people want to fire Toub. Others want Alex's head. Still others want the head of Peters and Kelce. Maybe we should fire Butker too. After all he missed a kick against the Jets. I've even seen suggestions on the ChiefsCrowd FB page that all would be fine if we hadn't given up next year's first round pick to get Mahomes. This from people that 6 months ago thought getting Mahomes was the greatest pick we had ever made.

Do you see where I am going with this? We're all frustrated and angry. We all want to find a scapegoat and have him PUBLICLY EXECUTED! Preferably with lots of blood and humiliation. OK...I understand that. It's a natural reaction because we are all very passionate about our Chiefs. But I think we all need to take a deep breath, perhaps a stiff drink and ask ourselves if we are really reacting rationally? When you have an employee who for 4 years has been one of the best you have ever had at his position do you fire him because he goes into a slump? Smart business owners don't. Smart managers don't. Yes...our season is going down the toilet. None of us expects us to make the playoffs. Most of us doubt we'll have a winning record. Some of us doubt we can even go 8-8. I'm starting to doubt that myself. And yeah...I WANT TO PUNISH SOMEONE FOR THAT! But I just don't think any of us really knows who it is that needs to be punished.

On a slightly more humorous note....I think we'd all agree that Len Dawson was one of the best QBs we have ever had. I looked up his passing stats....In his years with the Chiefs he had a completion rate of 57.1%. Pretty poor by today's standards. His average yards per passing attempt was 7.67. His average passing yards per game was 136. PATHETIC. Maybe we should retroactively fire him and remove him from the HOF? Yes...I know the game has changed since the Dawson days. Just trying to inject a little humor into the situation. Sometimes it's better to laugh than cry.

All-in-all, for the rest of the season I think we need to cheer for our Chiefs when we can and try to suppress our desire for revenge when there is not much to cheer about. At least for the rest of this year. Then our coaches and players will have to figure out what went wrong and try to correct it. Will the day come when "Heads must roll"? Maybe. But now is not the time. It's simply too early. We have a bright, shiny new QB waiting in the wings who certainly plays a very different style of football than Alex and with our cap situation and Alex's cap hit next year that new QB is almost certain to be our starter next year. So I guess what I am saying is that we need to adopt the attitude SSG Hickman taught me in the Army...F.I.D.O. FUDGE IT! DRIVE ON!

MOST IMPORTANTLY..... I hope nobody here will take this as a criticism of themselves or as me "calling them out". THAT IS NOT ​what I am doing. I'm just trying to put my emotions aside and look at this mess logically instead of emotionally.

Final thought....This is RAIDER WEEK. I know most of you despise the Broncos more than the Raiders, but for me the Raiders are, always have been and always will be PUBLIC ENEMY #1. ​GO CHIEFS!!!

[matthewschiefs]

CT.

First off no offense is taken. Never worry about that. Unless you personally attack someone then a difference of opinion is what open forums are all about.

About the overreaction aspect. There are times that people do overreact. But I really don't think that's the case here. I've tried to take this year out of it entirely. I'm looking more at the long term Andy Reid resume. And when you do you see the same issues have haunted his teams in both Philly and KC. That's what I'm driving at here. And why I don't think we are going to go any farther then what we have under Andy Reid.

Or let me make my case this way. In Charge 4 I mentioned the inconsistent play. Reid teams have regularly gone to losing streaks of 3 or more or 3 of 4 (25% of the season) almost every year for over 10 years. Look at the ultimate championship level coach in NE. You know how many times his teams have had one of those stretches 1 time in that same period. And keep in mind he went a full season WITHOUT Brady.

I don't mean to say that Reid did not do a Good job in KC. That would be just nonsense to say. My point is he in 20 years has only gotten so far. 20 years of history show you that this is probably as far as he can take a team.

To your point about Reid have the most success again you're correct. But I ask you this. The owner of that business probably has some goals. Just like Clark Hunt has. When someone continues to fail to meet that goal not just for you but elsewhere for 20 years. How much more time to you give him? Yes, he came closer than anyone else but he's still failing to meet the big goal. I think we have all enjoyed winning the games we have won under Andy and your damn right I will be rooting for them to win this Sunday again. But history can not be ignored. I think we all would love to have Andy win a super bowl in KC. But at some point you just have to look at it and say it's just not going to happen. Andy got us a long way. Now we need someone to get up to the promise land.

[ctchiefsfan]

Matt....Sorry I'm taking so long to reply. My computer is having some problems with this page.

[ctchiefsfan]

OK that went through. I'll retype my lengthy reply.

[matthewschiefs]

Matt....Sorry I'm taking so long to reply. My computer is having some problems with this page.

Can we get rid of this CT guy? Nobody keeps the all-important Matthewschiefs waiting This is ban worthy :smile

[ctchiefsfan]

HAHAHA! BIG SMILE! I just tried reposting my reply and it still won't go through. Did that by copy/paste. Guess I am actually going to have to retype the entire thing.

[matthewschiefs]

HAHAHA! BIG SMILE! I just tried reposting my reply and it still won't go through.

You may want to try a different browser. Firefox Chrome ect. I've had that happen as well before on sites

[ctchiefsfan]

You may want to try a different browser. Firefox Chrome ect. I've had that happen as well before on sites

I'm using Chrome. I think somehow my reply last night got corrupted and won't go through using copy/paste. I'm going to try retyping the whole thing from the copy I printed last night when it originally wouldn't go through.

[ctchiefsfan]

ct.

First off no offense is taken. Never worry about that. Unless you personally attack someone then a difference of opinion is what open forums are all about.

Thank you. I just didn't want anyone misinterpreting my post...


About the overreaction aspect. There are times that people do overreact. But i really don't think that's the case here. I've tried to take this year out of it entirely. I'm looking more at the long term andy reid resume. And when you do you see the same issues have haunted his teams in both philly and kc. That's what i'm driving at here. And why i don't think we are going to go any farther then what we have under andy reid.

Your points regarding Reid's history are valid. His playcalling and clock management are sometimes enough to drive a tea-total to drunkenness.


Or let me make my case this way. In charge 4 i mentioned the inconsistent play. Reid teams have regularly gone to losing streaks of 3 or more or 3 of 4 (25% of the season) almost every year for over 10 years. Look at the ultimate championship level coach in ne. You know how many times his teams have had one of those stretches 1 time in that same period. And keep in mind he went a full season without brady.

Again, I can not refute your statement. But I ask you honestly...Is it really fair to compare Reid and his Eagles and Chiefs teams with Belichick? Do we kick him to the curb because in 5 years he hasn't matched Belichick?


I don't mean to say that reid did not do a good job in kc. That would be just nonsense to say. My point is he in 20 years has only gotten so far. 20 years of history show you that this is probably as far as he can take a team.

Thank you. If I read you right, you are pretty much saying Reid has "Marty Disease". And you may be right. That said, I go back to my point which is that based on the last 4 years I believe he has earned the right to at least 2 years with his handpicked new QB--Mahomes. He took us from the catastrophe of 2012 to 4 winning records. I think that Reid has realized that his offensive schemes are outdated and pushed for the Mahomes selection because he realized his offensive schemes were no longer "good enough". In a way, Reid is a victim of his own success. Using his Offensive schemes that were tailored for Alex, we did so well that he (Reid) thought he could use it to get to the Super Bowl. But I think he realized that wasn't the case and so pushed for a new style of QB that he could use new schemes with. In short, I think Reid wants to change his playcalling dramatically and went and got a QB who would work with his new ideas. Guess what I am saying is that I think an old dog can learn new tricks. And I think Reid has earned the opportunity to prove it.


To your point about reid have the most success again you're correct. But i ask you this. The owner of that business probably has some goals. Just like clark hunt has. When someone continues to fail to meet that goal not just for you but elsewhere for 20 years. How much more time to you give him? Yes, he came closer than anyone else but he's still failing to meet the big goal. I think we have all enjoyed winning the games we have won under andy and your damn right i will be rooting for them to win this sunday again. But history can not be ignored. I think we all would love to have andy win a super bowl in kc. But at some point you just have to look at it and say it's just not going to happen. Andy got us a long way. Now we need someone to get up to the promise land.

You ask how much longer do I think we should give Reid. Naturally, there are too many variables to give a fixed answer. Questions like....What coaches are available on the market? I don't think we want to dump Reid for Buddy Ryan do we? What does Reid do with his Offensive scheme once Mahomes goes in (next year I presume)? But all in all, I think Reid should be given 2 years with Mahomes as the starter (naturally subject to review based on how we do in 2018) with a "Fish or cut bait" date of the end of the 2019 to get us to the AFC Championship game (or at least SUPER CLOSE). I guess my summary is Mahomes is Reid's baby and he deserves a year or two to show that he knows how to use him.

This a shortened version of my original but then shorter is probably better. I've been known to get a bit long-winded.

[matthewschiefs]

Again, I can not refute your statement. But I ask you honestly...Is it really fair to compare Reid and his Eagles and Chiefs teams with Belichick? Do we kick him to the curb because in 5 years he hasn't matched Belichick?


You ask how much longer do I think we should give Reid. Naturally, there are too many variables to give a fixed answer. Questions like....What coaches are available on the market? I don't think we want to dump Reid for Buddy Ryan do we? What does Reid do with his Offensive scheme once Mahomes goes in (next year I presume)? But all in all, I think Reid should be given 2 years with Mahomes as the starter (naturally subject to review based on how we do in 2018) with a "Fish or cut bait" date of the end of the 2019 to get us to the AFC Championship game (or at least SUPER CLOSE). I guess my summary is Mahomes is Reid's baby and he deserves a year or two to show that he knows how to use him.

This a shortened version of my original but then shorter is probably better. I've been known to get a bit long-winded.

My point isn't so much to compare the teams more to compare the traits of championship level coaches and Reid. They don't have many dips and Reid's teams seem to have some every year. This team has far too much talent to be a .500 team. They beat The Pats and eagles who are both 10-2. They started 5-0 against competition with a record of 35-25 a full 10 games over .500. Yet we see losses to the 2 win Giants. That is not a common trait of a championship level coach. IMO. It would be one thing if we could look and say hey this is a bad year (stuff happens) but when you look and see this has been the norm for Reid coached teams it's alarming.

To your point about Mahomes, I can not sit here and deny that Reid and Mahomes just find something. But I don't think that is very likely. I think we'll see what we have always seen from Reid teams. They just find a way to do something just baffling to lose. If that's an insane play call that ends up with your TE throwing an INT. Or if that's poor clock management they always find a way to lose. It's a trait Reid teams have always had. I just can't say that I see that changing.

[ctchiefsfan]

My point isn't so much to compare the teams more to compare the traits of championship level coaches and Reid. They don't have many dips and Reid's teams seem to have some every year. This team has far too much talent to be a .500 team. They beat The Pats and eagles who are both 10-2. They started 5-0 against competition with a record of 35-25 a full 10 games over .500. Yet we see losses to the 2 win Giants. That is not a common trait of a championship level coach. IMO. It would be one thing if we could look and say hey this is a bad year (stuff happens) but when you look and see this has been the norm for Reid coached teams it's alarming.

To your point about Mahomes, I can not sit here and deny that Reid and Mahomes just find something. But I don't think that is very likely. I think we'll see what we have always seen from Reid teams. They just find a way to do something just baffling to lose. If that's an insane play call that ends up with your TE throwing an INT. Or if that's poor clock management they always find a way to lose. It's a trait Reid teams have always had. I just can't say that I see that changing.

You may well be right and I may have my head stuffed up my ash. Being honest, it wouldn't be the first time I was 100% WRONG. But do you agree that we don't fire Reid unless there is CLEARLY a better head coach candidate on the market. If there is a coach available who is CLEARLY better than Reid then I can accept his being fired. But to be honest, if we were to fire Reid at the end of this year and hire some crippled toad I'd probably have an aneurysm with blood spurting out of my eyes, ears, mouth, nose and other parts of my body that don't need to be mentioned. You may be right in suggesting that Reid is Marty 2.0, though of course only time will tell. But do you want to trade Marty 2.0 for a few years of 4-12 or 8-8?

You say Reid has to go. OK...so who do we replace him with?

[matthewschiefs]

You may well be right and I may have my head stuffed up my ash. Being honest, it wouldn't be the first time I was 100% WRONG. But do you agree that we don't fire Reid unless there is CLEARLY a better head coach candidate on the market. If there is a coach available who is CLEARLY better than Reid then I can accept his being fired. But to be honest, if we were to fire Reid at the end of this year and hire some crippled toad I'd probably have an aneurysm with blood spurting out of my eyes, ears, mouth, nose and other parts of my body that don't need to be mentioned. You may be right in suggesting that Reid is Marty 2.0, though of course only time will tell. But do you want to trade Marty 2.0 for a few years of 4-12 or 8-8?

You say Reid has to go. OK...so who do we replace him with?

I myself would give a good look at Josh Mcdaniels. YES I know he wasn't that good as a HC in Denver. But he was in his early 30s then he might just have been someone that was not yet ready. I think he and Mahomes might be a good combo.

I don't think they will actually move on from Reid after the season. But I really think it's a move that should be done.

[matthewschiefs]

Instead of making a new post I'll just bump this one

Last week was a high this week is just as low. We will never go any farther as long as Andy Reid remains the head coach. He just isn't good enough to get past this

[jason1981]

Instead of making a new post I'll just bump this one

Last week was a high this week is just as low. We will never go any farther as long as Andy Reid remains the head coach. He just isn't good enough to get past this

Reid got an extension didnt he? Id say fire Reid and bob sutton. Maybe give naggy chance at HC. And rb coach Belomy as OC and then promote someone on our D as DC. Our Toub as HC and naggy as OC.

[chiefnutz]

As I've watched the Andy Reid era, it seems like they don't have the ability to adapt and make changes during a game. He has a game plan and just sticks to it. It's killed us time and time again.

[Chiefs4life24]

That's why we can never ever be on par with the steelers or pats in the playoffs cause Tomlin and Bill Kill kill and kill some more, they make adjustments

[matthewschiefs]

That's why we can never ever be on par with the steelers or pats in the playoffs cause Tomlin and Bill Kill kill and kill some more, they make adjustments

And Andy stops killing before halftime

[Chiefs4life24]

I also think It was probably a bad idea to rest the starters the past week, steve young was right when he said that is never a good thing

[ctchiefsfan]

Well...I am slowly recovering from my hangover and that shocking loss last night. I can say with certainty that the shock will last longer than the hangover. Again I see most of us blaming this loss being blamed on Reid. I will concede that some of the blame *may* belong in Reid's lap. But I have a few things to point out and a few questions to ask.....

1) WHO WAS DOING THE PLAYCALLING???? Yes, I saw the commentator say that it looked like Reid was playing a part in the playcalling. But y'know, I don't believe everything the commentators say. Yes they showed Reid consulting his play sheet menu, but I've seen that in all the games where Nagy has been calling the plays so Reid consulting the play sheet menu doesn't mean he was calling the plays again. Was the same person calling the plays in the first half and the second half or was it one person in the first half and someone different in the second half. I don't know the answer to this so I'm simply asking if anyone really does.

2) I think an important part of this loss was that stupid play where the ball was knocked down by a Chiefs defender and it went right into Mariota's hands for a TD. What should have been a TD-stopping play wound up being a Titan's TD. Plays like that can really demoralize a player and an entire Defensive unit. And while past Chiefs Defenses (which for the last 4 years have been amongst the elite) might have overcome that kind of shock this years Defense has not done very well and I don't think they had much fire left in them after that play.

3) I try not to blame bad outcomes on officiating (except in the heat of a game day thread) but in this case even the former VP of Officiating for the NFL called the Officiating atrocious. And Reid pretty much did as well saying something to the effect that he wouldn't say what he thought he thought about the Officiating because he didn't want to get fined. Those are pretty strong words by Reid standards. We have to be honest...it's very difficult to overcome TERRIBLE OFFICIATING. I'm not blaming it all on the Zebras but I think it is fair to say that pathetic Officiating was an important factor in this game.

4) Further on playcalling or perhaps I should say the Offensive scheme. The Titans Defensive scheme totally changed in the second half. They were blitzing like crazy and the Offensive line seemed to have no solution to it. Is that the fault of a poor O-line? Or is it the fault of a poorly coached O-line? And if it's the fault of the coaching of the O-line then who is the assistant in charge of coaching the O-line?

5) I'm not usually one to blame everything on injuries, but there was one injury during this game that was particularly critical....the loss of Kelce and that happened on an illegal helmet to helmet that didn't even get called. Kelce is Smith's "security blanket" and when a play starts to go to hell, Alex automatically looks for Kelce. With the Titans blitzing like crazy Alex was without his "escape valve". Harris did OK, but he ain't no Travis Kelce. All-in-all I think the loss of Kelce combined with the Titans Defense blitzing like crazy was "The Perfect Storm" that doomed us in the second half. Almost makes me wonder if the Titans D wasn't doing some head-hunting. After all...the Titans Defensive coordinator is 80 years old, so he goes back to the days when head-hunting was a common practice. HMMMMM...makes me wonder. And of course, the loss of Eric Berry in week 1 was a real blow to our Defense's leadership.

6) Lastly....the Chiefs curse of having great kickers who miss critical kicks in the playoffs continued. I've seen it so damned many times over the course of 49 years as a Chiefs fan and it's really starting to PISH ME OFF!

[Chiefs4life24]

#2 Unfortunately that is the rule CT when the ball was tipped he became an eligible receiver. He also has to have his whole body across the line of scrimmage not just a foota

[ctchiefsfan]

#2 Unfortunately that is the rule CT when the ball was tipped he became an eligible receiver. He also has to have his whole body across the line of scrimmage not just a foota

Thanks C4L....yeah I know it is the rule. I wasn't trying to say it was a bad call by the Zebras, just saying that I felt it was an emotional back-breaker for our Defense. Maybe had Berry been in the game he could have made them overcome that fluke play but since Berry went out in week 1 our Defense has been ranked something like #25 overall and I feel like that play just knocked them down and they just weren't able to pick themselves up again. DJ tried like hell but it just wasn't quite enough. Our Defense lost their swagger on that play and they just never recovered.

[matthewschiefs]

Doug Pederson and Nick Foles super bowl champs

The prosecution rest

[NJChiefs]

Doug Pederson and Nick Foles super bowl champs

The prosecution rest

Yes. And the Chiefs beat both of these teams. What a disappointment and once again a joke on us.

[Eydugstr]

Yes. And the Chiefs beat both of these teams. What a disappointment and once again a joke on us.

The sad part is we beat the Eagles when they had Wentz. Hat's off to Philly for manning up and getting the Lombardi.

[Bike]

Doug Pederson and Nick Foles super bowl champs

The prosecution rest

Reid won't adapt to his players. Reid expects his players to adapt to him. That's the difference (besides a Superbowl win) between Pederson and Reid.

[jason1981]

Reid won't adapt to his players. Reid expects his players to adapt to him. That's the difference (besides a Superbowl win) between Pederson and Reid.

No thats not it. Its reid wont adapt to his players. Its that reid wont trust in his pkayers. Reid plays not to lose. Pederson pkays to win. The play beforebthe half going for it instead of a field goal is case in point. That says everything. Reid would have never made that call in the s.b. reid gets scared and conservative. The only time not to be a conservative is in a football game. Lol

[Seek]

No thats not it. Its reid wont adapt to his players. Its that reid wont trust in his pkayers. Reid plays not to lose. Pederson pkays to win. The play beforebthe half going for it instead of a field goal is case in point. That says everything. Reid would have never made that call in the s.b. reid gets scared and conservative. The only time not to be a conservative is in a football game. Lol

I didn't see a whole lot different from Pederson and Reid, other than their looks, the player personnel, and The Eagles ran he ball more. Same poor time management, same dink and dunk conservative play calling until it was needed.

[jason1981]

I didn't see a whole lot different from Pederson and Reid, other than their looks, the player personnel, and The Eagles ran he ball more. Same poor time management, same dink and dunk conservative play calling until it was needed.

I think eagles were more agressive but either way reid wouldnt have went for it beforebhsl. He would have taken 3 points. I always wondered if foles was better then alex smith.

[matthewschiefs]

Was going to make another thread like this after tonight but thought of this one. Anyone who blindly allows someone who is clearly hurting the team to stick around deserves to be shown the door.

I believe that we have more talent on the defensive side of the ball then the results are showing. No way with Ford.Houston,Jones alone we should be on the bottom of the league on D. The fact that Sutton is still around is on Reid. And just continues to show that he just doesn't learn. He never learns. Just how I'm feeling right now

[Chiefster]

Can we get rid of this CT guy? Nobody keeps the all-important Matthewschiefs waiting This is ban worthy :smile

What was that??? Matthewchiefs is worthy of banning??? :lol:

[matthewschiefs]

What was that??? Matthewchiefs is worthy of banning??? :lol:

You wouldn't ban me that would require doing work :)

But that reminds me it's been to long HEY MODS https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/smooning_smiley_mooning_100-109.gif

[Chiefster]

You wouldn't ban me that would require doing work :)

But that reminds me it's been to long HEY MODS https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/smooning_smiley_mooning_100-109.gif

Heh! Got me there. Get off my lawn! :11:

[Chiefster]

I saw this on another board and thought it lent an interesting perspective:

"In the postgame press conference, he says he played Ward and Smith because he wanted to get a good look at them. He says Berry hit his snap count, and they pulled him at that point, as planned.

Fuller was expected to start, but he didn't go.
Parker was inactive.
Scandrick (as far as I can tell) never saw the field.
Erving practiced all week, but he didn't see the field.

Is it possible that Reid basically decided to take kind of a soft "rest the starters" approach to this game with the expectation that we'll easily beat the Raiders next week?"

[brdempsey69]

I saw this on another board and thought it lent an interesting perspective:

"In the postgame press conference, he says he played Ward and Smith because he wanted to get a good look at them. He says Berry hit his snap count, and they pulled him at that point, as planned.

Fuller was expected to start, but he didn't go.
Parker was inactive.
Scandrick (as far as I can tell) never saw the field.
Erving practiced all week, but he didn't see the field.

Is it possible that Reid basically decided to take kind of a soft "rest the starters" approach to this game with the expectation that we'll easily beat the Raiders next week?"

That sounds plausible. The team just was flat, as a whole, against Seattle last Sunday & it seems as though they were looking ahead to the season final and playing at home against the Raiders.

[NJChiefs]

I saw this on another board and thought it lent an interesting perspective:

"In the postgame press conference, he says he played Ward and Smith because he wanted to get a good look at them. He says Berry hit his snap count, and they pulled him at that point, as planned.

Fuller was expected to start, but he didn't go.
Parker was inactive.
Scandrick (as far as I can tell) never saw the field.
Erving practiced all week, but he didn't see the field.

Is it possible that Reid basically decided to take kind of a soft "rest the starters" approach to this game with the expectation that we'll easily beat the Raiders next week?"

Rest Scandrick, and play Mahomes the whole game? Heh, heh... Now isn't that the silliest thing I've ever heard

[Chiefster]

That sounds plausible. The team just was flat, as a whole, against Seattle last Sunday & it seems as though they were looking ahead to the season final and playing at home against the Raiders.

Agreed, it did seem as if they were looking ahead to next week after learning of the LAC defeat at Baltimore.


Rest Scandrick, and play Mahomes the whole game? Heh, heh... Now isn't that the silliest thing I've ever heard

I thought this was strange as well and the only thing I could think of, given the premise, was that Reid didn't want to appear to be completely "mailing it in". Of course, all of this is mere conjecture.

[matthewschiefs]

It's been a couple of days but I think this thread needs a bump.

For years I heard that it was Alex Smith holding us back. Well, this years loss was a lot like the ones with Alex. The offense went a LONG stretch without doing anything and it was costly. Alex wasn't anywhere in sight. A franchise QB having a historic season was there. And in RED. And we put up nothing in the first half. 0.

Yes Sutton needed to go but at the very least the Defense did SOMETHING in the first half. They stopped Brady a few times. It was that side that showed up more ready to play. Sutton as bad as he was did a better job getting guys ready then Reid did. Now Sutton is gone.

This leaves me to ask one thing. If we are back here yet again next year losing a game that we really should have won. Who's next to be the scapegoat. Alex isn't walking through that door anymore. And now Sutton isn't either. I really hope if we are here again next year finally the finger gets pointed at the person it should ANDY REID. On that day I can finally stop ranting about him

[Seek]

All I have to say is, remember the days when Herm Edwards, Todd Hailey and Romeo Crenel were head coaches. Be careful what you ask for.

[brdempsey69]

All I have to say is, remember the days when Herm Edwards, Todd Hailey and Romeo Crenel were head coaches. Be careful what you ask for.

That's right. WE might just get it & it might not be good.

[matthewschiefs]

All I have to say is, remember the days when Herm Edwards, Todd Hailey and Romeo Crenel were head coaches. Be careful what you ask for.

I've seen this argument a lot. And hey I get it.

But I just don't think that because things could be worse we shouldn't try to get better.

It could have been worse the Alex remember Cassel.Palko,Quinn ECT so we shouldn't have tried to get Mahomes?

[brdempsey69]

The thing that bothers me the most about the AFCG, is the way the Chiefs came out almost totally NOT ready & NOT prepared for this game, and yes, that does fall on Andy Reid.

There seemingly was NO plan of attack on either side of the ball, and it showed in the 1st half of that game.

[matthewschiefs]

The thing that bothers me the most about the AFCG, is the way the Chiefs came out almost totally NOT ready & NOT prepared for this game, and yes, that does fall on Andy Reid.

There seemingly was NO plan of attack on either side of the ball, and it showed in the 1st half of that game.

It would be one thing if this was an isolated case but it's the norm with Reid teams. They either come out lifeless or they come out hot and then are lifeless for the end of the game. It's what Reid teams do.

[Seek]

I've seen this argument a lot. And hey I get it.

But I just don't think that because things could be worse we shouldn't try to get better.

It could have been worse the Alex remember Cassel.Palko,Quinn ECT so we shouldn't have tried to get Mahomes?

So what coach do you see in the draft and combine that is available for the Chiefs to sign and sit a year behind Andy and learn?

I get your argument but your analogy is suggesting there is already a coach available with the known tangibles to be potentially be better than Reid. If that guy is there, we should sign him as our DC or OC./

[TopekaRoy]

I don't see anyone out there that would be a step up from Reid. Except maybe Matt Nagy!

Oh, but he's not going anywhere for a while. :smile

[brdempsey69]

I don't see anyone out there that would be a step up from Reid. Except maybe Matt Nagy!

Oh, but he's not going anywhere for a while. :smile

I do. He's already in KC. Eric Bieniemy.

I'm going to go out on the limb and call it right here. Bieniemy will be the next Chiefs HC. And I think he will be a very good one.

[matthewschiefs]

So what coach do you see in the draft and combine that is available for the Chiefs to sign and sit a year behind Andy and learn?

I get your argument but your analogy is suggesting there is already a coach available with the known tangibles to be potentially be better than Reid. If that guy is there, we should sign him as our DC or OC./

I wasn't making an analogy about any position just a mindset

The mindset of well we had worse so we should stick with Reid just doesn't make sense to me. We have had worse and yes it would be a risk to make the move. But it was a risk to move on from Alex with a unproven QB. Sometimes that risk can pay off.

[brdempsey69]

I wasn't making an analogy about any position just a mindset

The mindset of well we had worse so we should stick with Reid just doesn't make sense to me. We have had worse and yes it would be a risk to make the move. But it was a risk to move on from Alex with a unproven QB. Sometimes that risk can pay off.

See my previous post, Matt. The Chiefs already have a HC candidate in place -- Eric Bieniemy. I do think he has the potential to be better than Reid. It could be that Eric Bieniemy didn't accept any HC position elsewhere because he could be Reid's successor, here. Andy is getting up there in years (60) and who knows how much longer he may want to continue.

[Seek]

I wasn't making an analogy about any position just a mindset

The mindset of well we had worse so we should stick with Reid just doesn't make sense to me. We have had worse and yes it would be a risk to make the move. But it was a risk to move on from Alex with a unproven QB. Sometimes that risk can pay off.

I guess the difference here, is that I still have confidence with Andy. I never really did with Alex. So the mindset to move on, was more obvious. We just lost in the play offs, in overtime, where a stupid penalty would have taken us there. I still believe Andy can do it.

[matthewschiefs]

I guess the difference here, is that I still have confidence with Andy. I never really did with Alex. So the mindset to move on, was more obvious. We just lost in the play offs, in overtime, where a stupid penalty would have taken us there. I still believe Andy can do it.

If it were not for the fact we got off to as bad of a start I don't think that stupid penalty would have been what held us back. I just can't get over how unready we were to play in the biggest game of the season. AT HOME.

[brdempsey69]

If it were not for the fact we got off to as bad of a start I don't think that stupid penalty would have been what held us back. I just can't get over how unready we were to play in the biggest game of the season. AT HOME.

You speak for me, as well, regarding that matter. When you get this chance that the Chiefs had last Sunday, you have to be READY & you have to be PREPARED, and they did not get it done. That does fall on Andy Reid. There seemingly was NO plan of attack on either side of the ball & you can't wait until half-time to decide to get into a game of this magnitude.

[Seek]

If it were not for the fact we got off to as bad of a start I don't think that stupid penalty would have been what held us back. I just can't get over how unready we were to play in the biggest game of the season. AT HOME.

Yeah, I made the comment in the game day thread that And was being clowned. That is exactly what happened the last time we played them. Andy made adjustments on Offense and we stormed back. The Defense. Not so much.

[matthewschiefs]

Yeah, I made the comment in the game day thread that And was being clowned. That is exactly what happened the last time we played them. Andy made adjustments on Offense and we stormed back. The Defense. Not so much.

This is why I don't expect for anything to change this has happened throughout Reid's career and he hasn't learned. I just can't expect it to change now. He's not going anywhere anytime soon. But I really think that it's time to move on

[brdempsey69]

This is why I don't expect for anything to change this has happened throughout Reid's career and he hasn't learned. I just can't expect it to change now. He's not going anywhere anytime soon. But I really think that it's time to move on

I'll go out on the limb here & say that he a has a 2-3 year window to get this team a SB trophy, or else a change might very well be made. It still disgusts me that this team wasn't better prepared & more ready for the AFCG & how do we know if we'll ever get this opportunity again? Each season is a different entity, although 50 years ago, the 1969 season did seem very much like an extension of the 1968 season with just a few changes between those seasons. Maybe history will repeat itself. Time will tell.

[Justin5772002]

All I know is I’m thankful Reid recognizes that we needed to get rid of Sutton. You need to understand that Reid is a quality guy that players and coaches love to work under and his leadership role in discipline will never change due to that fact. He’s not hard enough on the people beneath him like a boss should be. That’s not a bad thing necessarily. Our chiefs are being treated fairly and equAlly. Even Brady has publicly said he doesn’t like Billachick and how he treats the players. But that’s what gets you rings. Jim Harbough would be an excellent replacement to get us to a SB but our players would become disgruntled and no longer wish to play for us. Who wants to win a SB and then watch Mahomes walk away? That’s what would happen IMO

we’re close and I want to see Reid get his SB win WITH us! Switching up the defense who was the weak link this year shows he’s doing all he knows how. Give the guy a break and let’s give him another shot before we scream to replace Reid

[matthewschiefs]

Time to bump this again

Todays game was a game we saw many times during the Alex Smith era. We score points early then go the rest of the game scoring very little. 17 points in the first then 7 the rest of the game. People blamed Alex Smith for this stuff. But we are still seeing it with an MVP level QB. That's on Andy Reid.

His stubbornness is why this team IMO isn't going to win a title. He continues to refuse to do something as little as try to run the damn ball when you have a qb who is hobbled. Mccoy getting over 5 YPC only gets 8 carries after not getting 1 last week. Both resulting in losses. You just can't count on Andy Reid to do anything more then what he has always done.

This pass happy is why sometimes the T.O.P gets so lopsided. But you can count on one thing It's not going to change. As I have said many times Andy Reid doesn't learn. Today was another game in the case against Reid.

[jason1981]

Time to bump this again

Todays game was a game we saw many times during the Alex Smith era. We score points early then go the rest of the game scoring very little. 17 points in the first then 7 the rest of the game. People blamed Alex Smith for this stuff. But we are still seeing it with an MVP level QB. That's on Andy Reid.

His stubbornness is why this team IMO isn't going to win a title. He continues to refuse to do something as little as try to run the damn ball when you have a qb who is hobbled. Mccoy getting over 5 YPC only gets 8 carries after not getting 1 last week. Both resulting in losses. You just can't count on Andy Reid to do anything more then what he has always done.

This pass happy is why sometimes the T.O.P gets so lopsided. But you can count on one thing It's not going to change. As I have said many times Andy Reid doesn't learn. Today was another game in the case against Reid.

Andy Reid doesnt k ow how to cover for our bad defense. You basically run the ball and eat up the clock and keep your defense on the sideline. Passing all the time only works when your score all the time but we're not scoring all the time. That puts our defense in a bad spot.

[Seek]

Andy Reid doesnt k ow how to cover for our bad defense. You basically run the ball and eat up the clock and keep your defense on the sideline. Passing all the time only works when your score all the time but we're not scoring all the time. That puts our defense in a bad spot.

The defense is failing on the first and second drives of the game. I fail to see how running the ball helps the defense get off the field on the opening drives. The Defense needs to get off the field to allow the offense to work. The special teams needs to stop running out of the end zone causing us to start from the 10.

[matthewschiefs]

The defense is failing on the first and second drives of the game. I fail to see how running the ball helps the defense get off the field on the opening drives. The Defense needs to get off the field to allow the offense to work. The special teams needs to stop running out of the end zone causing us to start from the 10.

Running the ball won't help solve the defense as a whole. But it would help with them being on the field so much.

People say we have not been effective running the ball that's not always true. Yesterday Mccoy was averaging more YPC then Hyde was. A full yard more 5.5 to 4.5. Yet we only gave him 8 carries to 26 for Hyde. That's part of the reason that our D was on the field so much. It happened last week as well. Being a more balanced offense would help limit some of the time that the D is on the field. But Andy Reid has done what he always has done. Stubbornly refused to do it.

The D does have to get better. But we can do some little things to help with that on the offensive side of the ball.

[Seek]

Running the ball won't help solve the defense as a whole. But it would help with them being on the field so much.

People say we have not been effective running the ball that's not always true. Yesterday Mccoy was averaging more YPC then Hyde was. A full yard more 5.5 to 4.5. Yet we only gave him 8 carries to 26 for Hyde. That's part of the reason that our D was on the field so much. It happened last week as well. Being a more balanced offense would help limit some of the time that the D is on the field. But Andy Reid has done what he always has done. Stubbornly refused to do it.

The D does have to get better. But we can do some little things to help with that on the offensive side of the ball.


Making a play and forcing the opposition to punt. Also allows them to get off the field and rest. You guys are looking for answers. It is not the offenses fault the defense I horrific.. Now if you are upset the offense play calling was too stupid to score more points that our defense as giving up. Okay.

[matthewschiefs]

Making a play and forcing the opposition to punt. Also allows them to get off the field and rest. You guys are looking for answers. It is not the offenses fault the defense I horrific.. Now if you are upset the offense play calling was too stupid to score more points that our defense as giving up. Okay.

Part of game planing is doing things to hide your weakness, In our case the defense.

We can all agree that the defense has to get better for this team to be a champion

But we can do things to help that on the otherside of the ball. Like I pointed out Mccoy was getting more YPC then Hyde was yesterday. Just think of what could of happened if we gave him more then 8 carries. Maybe instead of us seeing Mahomes standing on the sideline it would have been Watson?

Instead we came out hot scored points early they adjusted Andy just kept chucking the ball all over with a clearly hobbled QB. In short the head coach refusal to change from his norm in the slightest hurt them majorly. And it's something that we have seen time and time again from Andy Reid.

[brdempsey69]

And why no Darrel Williams as far as getting carries from scrimmage? Poor Darrel Williams has got to be chomping at the bit & wondering why he isn't getting any carries in the running game.

Memo to Andy Reid:

Vince Lombardi once said "Football is first a foremost a running game -- that will never change". The last two games have been lost because opponents are running the ball more and running the ball better than what the Chiefs have done. The numbers don't lie and tell the story of the last two games.

[Eydugstr]

Why Reid doesn't use his run game more than he does, I'll never understand. After McCoy's performance, and after that screen play broke wide open, and the state of our O-line, you'd think he'd just say "Let's pound the rock" and cut Mahomes loose when they started to crowd the line.

The Indy game could've gone much, much worse. Imagine if Luck had been behind center, combined with them running the ball effectively. This D would've been shredded.

IMO where we lost the Texans game was when we went up 17-3 but couldn't stop them afterwards. That was the moment we needed to put the boot on the Texans' throat. If the offense had scored to make the lead 24-3, think the Texans would've folded at that moment. They have a bad history of if a team gets on top of them, they'll pack it in. If you're up only by a TD or two, Deshaun Watson has shown from other games he can come back from that.

[Chiefs4life24]

I have started to wonder what this team would look like under Dick Vermiel, Marty Schottenhemeir and Gunther Cuningham, if the defense and Patrick Mahomes would be even better under those fine leaders. I feel the defense would be so much better under that staff.

[Eydugstr]

I have started to wonder what this team would look like under Dick Vermiel, Marty Schottenhemeir and Gunther Cuningham, if the defense and Patrick Mahomes would be even better under those fine leaders. I feel the defense would be so much better under that staff.

Gunther (both as head coach and later DC under Vermeil) suffered from a similar problem to what Sutton, and now Spags are going through - no help whatsoever from the front office. We've lost far more than we've gained. Don't think that we would be any better in the secondary but do think Gunther would've been more aggressive at the line.

[matthewschiefs]

Another week to bump this

[jason1981]

Another week to bump this

I dont fault Reid for this loss. Yeah he called a timeout for the 2 point but only 27 seconds left anyways and we didn't even use our last time out. So that a non factor. What cost the game was the fumble for td, and the freaken early snap on the field goal. Take away one of those plays chiefs win. That's on the players.

[Eydugstr]

When I see this thread popping back up is this...Okay, you don't want Reid as HC, then who do you want?

It's understandable to upset with Reid's "quirks" but at the same time let's not take things for granted. Reid's far from perfect, but under him, we've hosted a AFCCG, won playoff games, consistently gone to the playoffs, and have broken the KC curse of not being able to draft a QB worth a hoot. We've got consistently sold out games when parking alone is $60.

If we decide to can Reid, we could easily find ourselves in a situation where we're watching a team slowly implode itself right in front of us (again).

[matthewschiefs]

When I see this thread popping back up is this...Okay, you don't want Reid as HC, then who do you want?

It's understandable to upset with Reid's "quirks" but at the same time let's not take things for granted. Reid's far from perfect, but under him, we've hosted a AFCCG, won playoff games, consistently gone to the playoffs, and have broken the KC curse of not being able to draft a QB worth a hoot. We've got consistently sold out games when parking alone is $60.

If we decide to can Reid, we could easily find ourselves in a situation where we're watching a team slowly implode itself right in front of us (again).

This is a question I see alot when discussing Reid. My answer is I don't know.

But what I know is Reid has a track record of not being able to get the team to a championship level. As I stated I do think Reid is a very good NFL head coach and I do give him credit for the job he did when he did it. But I am seeing way to many of the worts of a Andy Reid team popping up on us in the last 2 games for me to think that it's going to end any different then it always has. Hopefully he proves me wrong and we can all laugh at me being a dummy again. But I am going to have to see it

I would start with OC Eric Bieniemy if he doesn't work out try again. Is there risk hell yeah there is. But ask Eagles fans if it's worth it?

[Eydugstr]

This is a question I see alot when discussing Reid. My answer is I don't know.

But what I know is Reid has a track record of not being able to get the team to a championship level. As I stated I do think Reid is a very good NFL head coach and I do give him credit for the job he did when he did it. But I am seeing way to many of the worts of a Andy Reid team popping up on us in the last 2 games for me to think that it's going to end any different then it always has. Hopefully he proves me wrong and we can all laugh at me being a dummy again. But I am going to have to see it

I would start with OC Eric Bieniemy if he doesn't work out try again. Is there risk hell yeah there is. But ask Eagles fans if it's worth it?

Eric Bienemy isn't a bad idea. We wouldn't have to blow up & rebuild the team if we went that route, and would have a much better chance of keeping really skilled players around (Mahomes, Hill). With Reid not getting any younger, it wouldn't surprise me if Bienemy is being groomed for the job down the road. It makes me wonder if he'll be stuck in the same situation with the D though.

No, Eagles fans weren't complaining when Pederson was hoisting the Lombardi, but they were pretty vocal after following a man named "Chip" into a few pro football seasons, after Reid.

[matthewschiefs]

The scene: A packed court room eagerly awaiting what is about to happen. The jury slowly files in and takes their seats.

The Judge ask "Has the Jury reached a verdict?"

The answer " We have your honor"

The judge ask "will the defendant please rise and face the jury"

The defendant nervously rises fearing he knows what is coming

The judge declares "You may read the verdict"

The foreperson Beings " We the jury in the above cause find the defendant Matthewschiefs GUILTY OF BEING A DUMB*** and sentence him to life knowing just how dumb he really is"

The judge thanks the jury looks at the defendant and says "May god have mercy on your soul you dumb***"

[NJChiefs]

^^^^^^^^ I agree with the above post completely. Thank you for eating crow, you dumb ***

[Eydugstr]

The scene: A packed court room eagerly awaiting what is about to happen. The jury slowly files in and takes their seats.

The Judge ask "Has the Jury reached a verdict?"

The answer " We have your honor"

The judge ask "will the defendant please rise and face the jury"

The defendant nervously rises fearing he knows what is coming

The judge declares "You may read the verdict"

The foreperson Beings " We the jury in the above cause find the defendant Matthewschiefs GUILTY OF BEING A DUMB*** and sentence him to life knowing just how dumb he really is"

The judge thanks the jury looks at the defendant and says "May god have mercy on your soul you dumb***"

Is this your way of saying you had to give the clipboard back?

[matthewschiefs]

Is this your way of saying you had to give the clipboard back?

For the moment


I can't say that I will never take it back but it will be a while before I do that