Bob Sutton - Why is he still here?

[Bike]

Worse defense in the league. Poor game-planning. Poor in-game adjustments. Poor use of players to their strengths. Sutton should have been released the day after the Tennessee collapse.

[ctchiefsfan]

He did pretty well the first 4 years but not so much this year. I'm not so sure if that was Sutton's fault or injuries and aging players.

[Bike]

Promote Dave Toub - before somebody else does.

[ctchiefsfan]

Promote Dave Toub - before somebody else does.

Can't argue much with that.

[Seek]

He did pretty well the first 4 years but not so much this year. I'm not so sure if that was Sutton's fault or injuries and aging players.

Did He? We bent a lot an tried not to break. We had one of the worst run defenses the last three years.

[matthewschiefs]

Andy Reid refuses to change anything that doesn't work

[ctchiefsfan]

Did He? We bent a lot an tried not to break. We had one of the worst run defenses the last three years.

Seems to me the Defense was damned good the first 4 years. Do I remember wrong that they were in the top 8 or better each of those years? And weren't they always very good at collecting turnovers? Even this year the Chiefs were #2 in takeaway ratio (although that was more because of the offense not giving up the ball than because the defense took it away. In 2016 we were tied for #1 in differential and #1 in takeaways. In 2015 we were #4 in takeaways and #2 in differential.

Of course the turnover differential has a lot to do with Alex not throwing INTs but here are the last 3 years of the Chiefs ranking in takeaways....2017...#6...2016...#1....2015...#4. So our Defense has been very good at generating takeaways.

Now....are those takeaways individual actions, coaching or a combination of both? I don't pretend to know. But my THEORY is that Sutton combines a "bend but don't break" attitude with a coaching environment that encourages taking RISKS if a player thinks he sees an opportunity for a takeaway.

But without a doubt we've developed a bad case of "can't defend the run". Now is that a function of the individual players? Is it a function of being very aggressive at going after the ball? Is it a function of just plain crappy tackling? Again, I don't pretend to know. But CERTAINLY our Defense needs remedial tackling practice. What I don't know is whose fault that is....coaching? players?

So I'm not saying Sutton doesn't need to go nor am I saying he needs to stay. I'm saying that I suspect that none of us really knows what the problem is and that I CERTAINLY DON'T.

My summary....

Our Defense needs A TON OF WORK in the draft and free agency....probably for the next 2-3 years. Tamba is finished. Ford is....well....Ford and that ain't too much. We simply don't have a decent OLB on the right side and without that Houston just isn't the threat he used to be. DJ was great and he's still damned good, but the two major injuries and age are making him less of a factor as each year goes by. Poe is gone. What used to be our "Stone Wall" has turned to sandstone while we have invested in Offense.

And now we find ourselves with depleted draft picks and crumbling Defense. Sutton's fault? Not so much in my opinion. We have simply over-invested in Offense and now we need to find a way to put things back in balance.

In the end I still think the future rests on our ability to trade Alex for some good draft picks and Veach's ability to use them wisely if we get them.

[Bike]

Seems to me the Defense was damned good the first 4 years. Do I remember wrong that they were in the top 8 or better each of those years? And weren't they always very good at collecting turnovers? Even this year the Chiefs were #2 in takeaway ratio (although that was more because of the offense not giving up the ball than because the defense took it away. In 2016 we were tied for #1 in differential and #1 in takeaways. In 2015 we were #4 in takeaways and #2 in differential.

Of course the turnover differential has a lot to do with Alex not throwing INTs but here are the last 3 years of the Chiefs ranking in takeaways....2017...#6...2016...#1....2015...#4. So our Defense has been very good at generating takeaways.

Now....are those takeaways individual actions, coaching or a combination of both? I don't pretend to know. But my THEORY is that Sutton combines a "bend but don't break" attitude with a coaching environment that encourages taking RISKS if a player thinks he sees an opportunity for a takeaway.

But without a doubt we've developed a bad case of "can't defend the run". Now is that a function of the individual players? Is it a function of being very aggressive at going after the ball? Is it a function of just plain crappy tackling? Again, I don't pretend to know. But CERTAINLY our Defense needs remedial tackling practice. What I don't know is whose fault that is....coaching? players?

So I'm not saying Sutton doesn't need to go nor am I saying he needs to stay. I'm saying that I suspect that none of us really knows what the problem is and that I CERTAINLY DON'T.

My summary....

Our Defense needs A TON OF WORK in the draft and free agency....probably for the next 2-3 years. Tamba is finished. Ford is....well....Ford and that ain't too much. We simply don't have a decent OLB on the right side and without that Houston just isn't the threat he used to be. DJ was great and he's still damned good, but the two major injuries and age are making him less of a factor as each year goes by. Poe is gone. What used to be our "Stone Wall" has turned to sandstone while we have invested in Offense.

And now we find ourselves with depleted draft picks and crumbling Defense. Sutton's fault? Not so much in my opinion. We have simply over-invested in Offense and now we need to find a way to put things back in balance.

In the end I still think the future rests on our ability to trade Alex for some good draft picks and Veach's ability to use them wisely if we get them.

Kind of sucky that there's probably not somebody out there willing to pay Houston the 13 mil we owe him + his 20 mil contract. Good or bad, injured or healthy, we stuck. We need to unleash Houston and allow him to terrorize qbs instead of dropping back in coverage. Otherwise, we'll never get our money's worth out of him at this stage in his career.

[ctchiefsfan]

Kind of sucky that there's probably not somebody out there willing to pay Houston the 13 mil we owe him + his 20 mil contract. Good or bad, injured or healthy, we stuck. We need to unleash Houston and allow him to terrorize qbs instead of dropping back in coverage. Otherwise, we'll never get our money's worth out of him at this stage in his career.

You ARE SO RIGHT! And we're not going to get that unless we get decent pass rush from the right side. Hali used to do it but he can't anymore and Ford (when he isn't injured) is no Hali. Houston works from the left (most QBs blind side) and if we get some pressure from the right then the QB is at Houston's mercy. But if we have no rush from the right then the enemy doubleteams Houston and we have no real pass rush. It's not all about Houston, it's about making sure that we have at least some reliable pressure from the right. Get some decent pressure from the right and Houston will eat QBs for breakfast.

[Eydugstr]

There's so many holes on the D to fix, so many injuries, I'm not sure where to begin on Sutton. Just going by the rankings alone I'd say let Sutton go, but think we really shot ourselves in the foot when we signed Berry and let Poe go, only to watch Berry get injured at the beginning of the season. We also didn't do ourselves any favors in the previous offseason by addressing our cornerback situation, and Darrell Revis was a Band-Aid on a bullet hole.

My big concern is that Reid ran a lot of 4-3 defenses when he was in Philly, and if he decides to let Sutton go would want to switch back to a 4-3. With our current roster that would be an even worse disaster, and it would create more holes to plug.

[ctchiefsfan]

There's so many holes on the D to fix, so many injuries, I'm not sure where to begin on Sutton. Just going by the rankings alone I'd say let Sutton go, but think we really shot ourselves in the foot when we signed Berry and let Poe go, only to watch Berry get injured at the beginning of the season. We also didn't do ourselves any favors in the previous offseason by addressing our cornerback situation, and Darrell Revis was a Band-Aid on a bullet hole.

My big concern is that Reid ran a lot of 4-3 defenses when he was in Philly, and if he decides to let Sutton go would want to switch back to a 4-3. With our current roster that would be an even worse disaster, and it would create more holes to plug.

And as things stand now we don't have cap or draft picks to plug holes with.

[Eydugstr]

And as things stand now we don't have cap or draft picks to plug holes with.

That's it in a nutshell. Veach better be working some phones on a killer trade deal for Alex Smith.

[ctchiefsfan]

That's it in a nutshell. Veach better be working some phones on a killer trade deal for Alex Smith.

Yeah....we're caught between a rock and a hard place. Our once great Defense is aging and the ones that are aging are the leaders. Yet at the same time we mortgaged our future to get Mahomes and so as things stand now we don't have the draft capital to bring in the new AND CHEAP blood our Defense desperately needs. I don't know if Reid and Dorsey realized it at the time but they made a very dangerous gamble. They bet the Chiefs future on what we could trade Alex for this year. If we can recoup most of what we gave up to get Mahomes by trading Smith and Veach uses the picks we get from the trade well then we are all set for several years. Alternatively, if we can't trade Alex for some serious draft capital then Mahomes may be in the same situation he was in college....no defense and trying to win a shootout every week. And we know how that went. The implications of the trade to get Mahomes are really starting to sink in for me. I worry that we are going to be forced to turn into "Air Coryell".

[Bike]

Yeah....we're caught between a rock and a hard place. Our once great Defense is aging and the ones that are aging are the leaders. Yet at the same time we mortgaged our future to get Mahomes and so as things stand now we don't have the draft capital to bring in the new AND CHEAP blood our Defense desperately needs. I don't know if Reid and Dorsey realized it at the time but they made a very dangerous gamble. They bet the Chiefs future on what we could trade Alex for this year. If we can recoup most of what we gave up to get Mahomes by trading Smith and Veach uses the picks we get from the trade well then we are all set for several years. Alternatively, if we can't trade Alex for some serious draft capital then Mahomes may be in the same situation he was in college....no defense and trying to win a shootout every week. And we know how that went. The implications of the trade to get Mahomes are really starting to sink in for me. I worry that we are going to be forced to turn into "Air Coryell".

All we're gonna get at most is a second pick for Alex, but probably a third. (I'd like both lol) But I'm just going by what san fran gave for garoppolo. Do you think that one pick will make all the difference if we sink or swim? I guess we could trade it for a couple later round picks, and, of course, it decreases our cap.
Don't be surprised if Alex stays right here and plays out his contract.

[ctchiefsfan]

All we're gonna get at most is a second pick for Alex, but probably a third. (I'd like both lol) But I'm just going by what san fran gave for garoppolo. Do you think that one pick will make all the difference if we sink or swim? I guess we could trade it for a couple later round picks, and, of course, it decreases our cap.
Don't be surprised if Alex stays right here and plays out his contract.

Y'know Bike I'm not at all against Alex playing out his contract. Not one bit. I'm just being fatalistic and saying I don't think it will happen. We're facing a triple-edged sword....no cap space, limited draft picks and a Defense that needs a major overhaul. I don't see how we fix all 3 problems while still keeping Alex.

[Chiefs4life24]

Titans make Mike Vrabel the new Head Coach

[ctchiefsfan]

It will be interesting to see what Vrabel does as a HC.

[Bike]

Back to thread topic - Sutton should have been fired two weeks ago. Probably Reid, too. So, there you go. Another year of one and done (if we're lucky) coming up.

[jason1981]

Hey atleaat we can feel better since we beat both teams that are in superbowl. Amd one of the head coaches came from kc. Or that might just be salt to the wound. Lol

[Bike]

Hey atleaat we can feel better since we beat both teams that are in superbowl. Amd one of the head coaches came from kc. Or that might just be salt to the wound. Lol
Salt to the wound. Pederson put together a Superbowl team in 2 years. Reid - well, not so much.

[jason1981]

Salt to the wound. Pederson put together a Superbowl team in 2 years. Reid - well, not so much.

Yeah i knew i was adding salt. Its like sn open secret league wide that reid costs us games with play calling. I know he was behind the 2nd half play calling cuz thats exactly the way his play calling is. We will never go far with reid but then im scared to get another herm edwards. God was he so bad. Haley wasnt as bad as herm. Or remember crenel for a year? But we need to go woth someone young.

[Chiefs4life24]

We need someone young and hungry and like Gruden that isn't affraid to kick the teams *** if they mess up

[Bike]

We need someone young and hungry and like Gruden that isn't affraid to kick the teams *** if they mess up

They said Josh McDaniels was going to be Dorseys HC during the game. Just wondering why Hue Jackson was still there...

[Chiefs4life24]

I don't think they know what the hell to do with that dumpster fire they already said Hue would be retained, If I was Dorsey I would hire Mcdaniels

[Chiefs4life24]

Reports say the Browns and Todd Haley are nearing a deal for him to be the new OC

[Bike]

Why?

[Coach]

The Chiefs should be jumping on Dick Lebeau after he was released from the Titans following the Vrabel hits. He’s the best DC in football and has been for more than a decade.

[Eydugstr]

The Chiefs should be jumping on Dick Lebeau after he was released from the Titans following the Vrabel hits. He’s the best DC in football and has been for more than a decade.

Agreed completely. He would definitely be an upgrade.

[Chiefs4life24]

Just his knowledge alone would be an upgrade

[Bike]

The Chiefs should be jumping on Dick Lebeau after he was released from the Titans following the Vrabel hits. He’s the best DC in football and has been for more than a decade.
Yabut, isn't he over 80 years old? Do you think he still has the energy and motivation to keep up with the rigors this position demands? I dunno. I'm 57, and I'm losing my will to go to work every day anymore. But then, if you love your job, it's not really a job (not the case in my situation.)😊

[Chiefs4life24]

Breaking news Terez Paylor spoke to Andy Reid today and the Chiefs Are Retaining DC Bob Sutton

[Bike]

Breaking news Terez Paylor spoke to Andy Reid today and the Chiefs Are Retaining DC Bob Sutton
Loyal to a fault.

[jason1981]

Id say no to dick labeau. Hes way old and i dont think his defenses are as good or effective as they use to be.

[matthewschiefs]

Loyal to a fault.

Loyal or just plain stubborn