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View Full Version : Kolby Smith,another coaching screw up



wolfpack
12-03-2007, 11:42 AM
Smith seems like he hardly ever loses yardage. i know he has but not like LJ did. why didn`t they try him earlier in the year? to me its poor coaching by our hermmie. this is the same coach at the beginning said our "o-line" woulbe fine. this guy cant judge talent if it smacked him across the head. thank you for reading my 2 cents worth.

timsatt1
12-03-2007, 04:13 PM
Smith seems like he hardly ever loses yardage. i know he has but not like LJ did. why didn`t they try him earlier in the year? to me its poor coaching by our hermmie. this is the same coach at the beginning said our "o-line" woulbe fine. this guy cant judge talent if it smacked him across the head. thank you for reading my 2 cents worth.


a lot of things are easy to see in hindsite.

i blame a lot of things on herm because a lot of things are his fault.

but no one could know how good kolby smith would be.

and LJ "was" a proven runningback at the time. Not so much anymore.

what i am saying is there is no way that THIS INSTINCE is Moron Edwards fault.

texaschief
12-03-2007, 05:54 PM
Smith seems like he hardly ever loses yardage. i know he has but not like LJ did. why didn`t they try him earlier in the year? to me its poor coaching by our hermmie. this is the same coach at the beginning said our "o-line" woulbe fine. this guy cant judge talent if it smacked him across the head. thank you for reading my 2 cents worth.

You can't be serious. Have you seen our defense lately? besides the old CBs, Herm has loaded this defense with some great talent.

But i see your point, it's not like he actually DRAFTED Kolby. Obviously Bowe has been a bust too. Webb is awful. Croyle is a 3rd stringer at best.

You're SO right!! He should've put our 4th RD rookie on the field instead of our Super Stud RB that we just gave a huge contract to.

GREAT POST!! :sign0098:

greg3564
12-03-2007, 07:08 PM
You can't be serious. Have you seen our defense lately? besides the old CBs, Herm has loaded this defense with some great talent.

But i see your point, it's not like he actually DRAFTED Kolby. Obviously Bowe has been a bust too. Webb is awful. Croyle is a 3rd stringer at best.

You're SO right!! He should've put our 4th RD rookie on the field instead of our Super Stud RB that we just gave a huge contract to.

GREAT POST!! :sign0098:

If it weren't for the fact they traded Bennett away, LJ would have been traded away this off season. They still may do that and pick up another RB in FA or the draft. Kolby Smith is a bargain and the Chiefs could trade LJ and free up a lot of salary cap space and get some decent O line players. Kolby proved that it isn't all the O line's fault. Some of the blame falls squarely on LJ and I think with 60% probability that the Chiefs will send LJ packing. We'll see.

timsatt1
12-03-2007, 07:16 PM
If it weren't for the fact they traded Bennett away, LJ would have been traded away this off season. They still may do that and pick up another RB in FA or the draft. Kolby Smith is a bargain and the Chiefs could trade LJ and free up a lot of salary cap space and get some decent O line players. Kolby proved that it isn't all the O line's fault. Some of the blame falls squarely on LJ and I think with 60% probability that the Chiefs will send LJ packing. We'll see.

trading LJ for a bunch of linemen is about the best trade i can think of at this point....only since smith IS so good. If Smith wasnt good, we would be forced to stick with LJ. But, imagine smith with a good O LINE!! #$##$#$ that would be freakin amazing!

luv
12-03-2007, 08:04 PM
I wonder who drafted him?

Chiefster
12-03-2007, 08:51 PM
I wonder who drafted him?

Who?

wolfpack
12-03-2007, 09:30 PM
You can't be serious. Have you seen our defense lately? besides the old CBs, Herm has loaded this defense with some great talent.

But i see your point, it's not like he actually DRAFTED Kolby. Obviously Bowe has been a bust too. Webb is awful. Croyle is a 3rd stringer at best.

You're SO right!! He should've put our 4th RD rookie on the field instead of our Super Stud RB that we just gave a huge contract to.

GREAT POST!! :sign0098:
Webb what has he done? nothing... Croyle just was giving the chance. if hermmie would admit he`s rebuilding then Croyle would have started from the 1st game. and our stud RB should have been traded for pics . your right Bowe is a keeper but who drafted him? our defense is better but when you need a stop in the worst way they roll over like a cheap hooker (i`m told).

Three7s
12-04-2007, 01:43 AM
You can't be serious. Have you seen our defense lately? besides the old CBs, Herm has loaded this defense with some great talent.

But i see your point, it's not like he actually DRAFTED Kolby. Obviously Bowe has been a bust too. Webb is awful. Croyle is a 3rd stringer at best.

You're SO right!! He should've put our 4th RD rookie on the field instead of our Super Stud RB that we just gave a huge contract to.

GREAT POST!! :sign0098:
Of all of your posts I've read, you seem to really like Herm a lot. No offense, but I think Herm is an idiot, along with most others that view these forums.
Herm and Peterson have completely demolished a solid offense, all because Herm thought the defense stunk. I have given Herm a lot of slack, mostly because he got us to the play offs last year by a miracle.
I'm through with the excuses he makes, next season, I want to see better results, like, a team that can actually score over 20 points somewhat consistently! If next year is the same stench, then toss out the garbage.

prough91
12-04-2007, 02:41 AM
[quote=texaschief;52103] Obviously Bowe has been a bust too.

How in the hell can you call Bowe a bust?

prough91
12-04-2007, 02:44 AM
Kolby Smith reminds me a ton of Priest. At least Kolby was drafted!

texaschief
12-04-2007, 02:57 AM
Of all of your posts I've read, you seem to really like Herm a lot. No offense, but I think Herm is an idiot, along with most others that view these forums.
Herm and Peterson have completely demolished a solid offense, all because Herm thought the defense stunk. I have given Herm a lot of slack, mostly because he got us to the play offs last year by a miracle.
I'm through with the excuses he makes, next season, I want to see better results, like, a team that can actually score over 20 points somewhat consistently! If next year is the same stench, then toss out the garbage.

I DO like Herm. He coaches and builds his team the correct way. He's in the same cut as Lovie Smith and Tony Dungie. Both those guys built their first teams with a "defense first" mentality...kinda like we're seeing here. This Chiefs defense is 2 CBs and one dominant DT away from being potentially great.

Carl Peterson was the one that destroyed your precious offense. There's NO WAY you can let your O-line get THAT old without drafting a few studs to start grooming behind them. Also, our OC is in his first term at his job coming from the O-line. That was one of the biggest concerns in giving Solari that job. Historically, O-line coaches don't make good OCs.

Herm inheritied one of, if not THE oldest team in the league and Chiefs fans are expecting him to take them to the Super Bowl. It's just unrealistic. Don't you think if Vermiel had thought we had a shot at a title some time soon, he would've stayed? He knew we had peaked already.

This entire season has been destroyed and lost because Carl Peterson is trying to keep his job. If he had done the right thing and stated that we were "rebuilding", the cry out from fans calling for his head may not be so deafening.

Completely rebuilding a team takes longer than 2 years. Chiefs fans need to start looking at this team like a franchise and understand it's not ALWAYS about winning THIS YEAR. Understanding you can't win a title every single season is crucial. At some point you need to bite the bullett and build this team the correct way.

Herm has a plan for this team and he's done a great job in his first two offseasons in building toward that plan. Just because this team isn't complete RIGHT NOW doesn't mean it wont be completed ever.

The offseason needs are obvious and if some of those needs aren't addressed this offseason, then we can talk about getting rid of him. But in the past 2 offseasons, we've had huge needs on defense and he's done a great job filling those holes thru the draft and free agency.

The problems this year are 85% Carl Peterson, 10% Mike Solari and 5% Herm Edwards. The job of the GM is to not allow your team to get in a position to where they ever have to COMPLETELY rebuild one side of the ball or the other. Ever since CP has taken over the Chiefs have been great on one side or the other and absolutely horrid on the other side. You just can't do that.

Another problem that lies at the feet of CP is that this team needs to be built from the inside out. We've done a decent job on the defensive side, still need another DT, but the offensive line has been neglected since we traded for Roaf. Where are the Will Shields or Brian Waters of this next generation? Those players should already be pushing these vets for playing time and the Chiefs are doing good just to find players to plug in.

We decided on Herm and his philosophy 2 seasons ago. We need to stick with him for AT LEAST 5 or 5 seasons. I would prefer giving him at least 7 seasons but in this day and age, nobody is patient anymore. Hell, most of the ppl here want to fire him already. It's just ridiculous. He knows where he wants to go and the GM should give him the tools to get there.

Besides, if we fire him this year, who do we go get? I keep seeing Cower on this board and that's just a joke. He hasn't said he wants back in yet. So, who would you rather have? Another coach who hasn't proven anything?

Sorry for the rant, i just HATE impatience.

texaschief
12-04-2007, 03:00 AM
...not to mention, this offense hasn't had a stable QB in 2 seasons.

hermhater
12-04-2007, 03:06 AM
I DO like Herm. He coaches and builds his team the correct way. He's in the same cut as Lovie Smith and Tony Dungie. Both those guys built their first teams with a "defense first" mentality...kinda like we're seeing here. This Chiefs defense is 2 CBs and one dominant DT away from being potentially great.

Carl Peterson was the one that destroyed your precious offense. There's NO WAY you can let your O-line get THAT old without drafting a few studs to start grooming behind them. Also, our OC is in his first term at his job coming from the O-line. That was one of the biggest concerns in giving Solari that job. Historically, O-line coaches don't make good OCs.

Herm inheritied one of, if not THE oldest team in the league and Chiefs fans are expecting him to take them to the Super Bowl. It's just unrealistic. Don't you think if Vermiel had thought we had a shot at a title some time soon, he would've stayed? He knew we had peaked already.

This entire season has been destroyed and lost because Carl Peterson is trying to keep his job. If he had done the right thing and stated that we were "rebuilding", the cry out from fans calling for his head may not be so deafening.

Completely rebuilding a team takes longer than 2 years. Chiefs fans need to start looking at this team like a franchise and understand it's not ALWAYS about winning THIS YEAR. Understanding you can't win a title every single season is crucial. At some point you need to bite the bullett and build this team the correct way.

Herm has a plan for this team and he's done a great job in his first two offseasons in building toward that plan. Just because this team isn't complete RIGHT NOW doesn't mean it wont be completed ever.

The offseason needs are obvious and if some of those needs aren't addressed this offseason, then we can talk about getting rid of him. But in the past 2 offseasons, we've had huge needs on defense and he's done a great job filling those holes thru the draft and free agency.

The problems this year are 85% Carl Peterson, 10% Mike Solari and 5% Herm Edwards. The job of the GM is to not allow your team to get in a position to where they ever have to COMPLETELY rebuild one side of the ball or the other. Ever since CP has taken over the Chiefs have been great on one side or the other and absolutely horrid on the other side. You just can't do that.

Another problem that lies at the feet of CP is that this team needs to be built from the inside out. We've done a decent job on the defensive side, still need another DT, but the offensive line has been neglected since we traded for Roaf. Where are the Will Shields or Brian Waters of this next generation? Those players should already be pushing these vets for playing time and the Chiefs are doing good just to find players to plug in.

We decided on Herm and his philosophy 2 seasons ago. We need to stick with him for AT LEAST 5 or 5 seasons. I would prefer giving him at least 7 seasons but in this day and age, nobody is patient anymore. Hell, most of the ppl here want to fire him already. It's just ridiculous. He knows where he wants to go and the GM should give him the tools to get there.

Besides, if we fire him this year, who do we go get? I keep seeing Cower on this board and that's just a joke. He hasn't said he wants back in yet. So, who would you rather have? Another coach who hasn't proven anything?

Sorry for the rant, i just HATE impatience.


You sound like Herm's dentures.

An NFL team needs to be able to score 27 to 34 points a game to be competitive in this league.

The old D wins championships has been disproven about 6 out of 7 times this decade.

texaschief
12-04-2007, 03:09 AM
yeah, ok

hermhater
12-04-2007, 03:21 AM
yeah, ok

OK what?

Do you think a Super Bowl Champion can win most of their games with 10 points?

Especially the Super Bowl?

Show me some stats.

prough91
12-04-2007, 04:05 AM
OK what?

Do you think a Super Bowl Champion can win most of their games with 10 points?

Especially the Super Bowl?

Show me some stats.

You really think Cowher was an offensive minded coach? Come on, he was a Schottenheimer disciple.

texaschief
12-04-2007, 04:05 AM
i don't think a good defense today necessarily means holding ppl under 10 pts...but saying things like that is a great goal to have as far as motivating your team to play good defense. Having a top 5 defense and a top 10 offense should be the goal. It's not necessarily the amount of points you allow in the Super Bowl.

A top 5 defense will keep you in games. Offense doesn't show up every single game. Did you watch the Monday night game? Think the Patriots are undefeated without a good defense? It's not all about scoring points.

hermhater
12-04-2007, 04:55 AM
i don't think a good defense today necessarily means holding ppl under 10 pts...but saying things like that is a great goal to have as far as motivating your team to play good defense. Having a top 5 defense and a top 10 offense should be the goal. It's not necessarily the amount of points you allow in the Super Bowl.

A top 5 defense will keep you in games. Offense doesn't show up every single game. Did you watch the Monday night game? Think the Patriots are undefeated without a good defense? It's not all about scoring points.

Yeah I watched the game and it was great!

Brady scored 27 on the Ravens D and it was a come back win.

How is the Ravens D doing this year? Or the last 7?

That game was better than the Super Bowl will be, trust me.

You witnessed another bit of Brady history.

His passes were lasers, except for a few that got grabbed by the 40 mph winds.

I want an offense like that again.

texaschief
12-04-2007, 04:58 AM
Yeah I watched the game and it was great!

Brady scored 27 on the Ravens D and it was a come back win.

How is the Ravens D doing this year? Or the last 7?

That game was better than the Super Bowl will be, trust me.

You witnessed another bit of Brady history.

His passes were lasers, except for a few that got grabbed by the 40 mph winds.

I want an offense like that again.

exactly. of course, i was talking about the Patriot defense, but whatever. lol

hermhater
12-04-2007, 05:02 AM
exactly. of course, i was talking about the Patriot defense, but whatever. lol

Well in that case McGhahee(23?) and that other guy (32?) ran all over the Pats line.

No penalties that I can remember from the Pats D, but the Ravens did pretty good on offense against them.

wolfpack
12-04-2007, 10:25 AM
i agree with Hermhater,the day defense`s win championships is gone. they help win them but not by theirselfs. Peterson dug the hole for our offense,Hermmie nailed the coffin and filled in the hole. Dungy and cowher both realized this and kept their noises out of the offensive side of the ball. thats when the steelers opened up more of a pasasing attack. and dungy was smart enough to let p
manning do his thing.

chief31
12-04-2007, 12:19 PM
Herm, Dungy and Lovie are defensive coordinators, IMO. None of them has ever assembled much of an offense. And Herm had five years with the Jets, dropping them to a 4-12 record, when he left.

Five years...4-12. I call that a failure, in building a championship team.

Not that I would classify his stint with the Chiefs a failure, yet. But that I have no faith in his abilty to create a championship-caliber team.

I don't want him fired, right now, unless Cowher becomes available. But, I don't like him, as the head coach of my Chiefs.

The biggest reason I dislike him as a head coach is his history of underappreciation for the offensive line. I know that you already know this, (texaschief) because we have had this discussion before. And hopefully, he actually sees the need to take that area of his team seriously, now.

The offensive line often gets looked at with a "Just plug someone in there" attitude, and that tends to lead to a revolving door for quarterbacks. Or, in Herm case, a revolving hospital door.

Playing quarterback means learning to disregard your natural instict to protect yourself. Meaning that you will take some hits, without bracing for the impact, or doing anything to protect yourself. Therefore, if the guys whos job it is to protect you are not very good at doing so, then you will have to take alot more of those unprotected hits.

No matter how tough you may be, a certain number of those kind of hits will injure you. One can do it, but we try to avoid alowing them, as much as we can.

Once a person has a bone/muscular injury, an entire region of the body loses strength of structure. Get injured a couple of times, and suddenly, you are injury-prone.

Chad Pennington is a prime example. Trent Green is another good one. Hopefully, Herm is starting to realize this. Damon Huard and Brodie Croye could also be used here.

Bad luck is a small player in the game that continually gets his quarterbacks injured. You can limit the likelihood of that kind of bad luck, by avoiding the number of times that your quarterback gets hit.

No, not by never choosing to pass the ball. By assembling a group of offensive linemen and blocking backs/tight ends that are capable of minnimizing the number of defenders that get to your quarterback.

Yes, there are other things that can be done to assist in protecting a quarterback, but they are just that, help. The base of your protection has to be the quality of talent amongst your pass protectors.

I don't intend to say that Herm totally sucks. I have alot of hope for him to take a very serious aproach to assembling a great offensive line this offseason.

I just wanted to distance myself from the "Fire Herm Now" party. I may be extremely upset with his failure to draft offensive linemen, to this point, but I have to believe that he will get the job done this time.

Other than that one, single aspect, I really like Herm. I like that he creates successful defenses. I even like his personality. (Much better when his team is winning.)

It is really just the one major issue, (Some smaller ones too.) and he can fix that with me.

greg3564
12-04-2007, 03:34 PM
I DO like Herm. He coaches and builds his team the correct way. :lol:

Herm has a plan for this team and he's done a great job in his first two offseasons in building toward that plan. Just because this team isn't complete RIGHT NOW doesn't mean it wont be completed ever.

The problems this year are 85% Carl Peterson, 10% Mike Solari and 5% Herm Edwards.

We decided on Herm and his philosophy 2 seasons ago. We need to stick with him for AT LEAST 5 or 5 seasons. I would prefer giving him at least 7 seasons but in this day and age, nobody is patient anymore. Hell, most of the ppl here want to fire him already. It's just ridiculous. He knows where he wants to go and the GM should give him the tools to get there. :funnypost:

Herm Edwards has NO business as a head coach. The numbers don't lie. His regular season record is 52 - 56 - 0 (0.481). He's not even a .500 coach.

+--------------+----------+
| Reg. Season | Playoffs |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| Year TM | W L T | W L |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2001.htm) | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 2002 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2002.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2002.htm) | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |
| 2003 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2003.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2003.htm) | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 2004 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2004.htm) | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 2005 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2005.htm) | 4 12 0 | 0 0 |
| 2006 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006.htm) kan (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan2006.htm) | 9 7 0 | 0 1 |
| 2007 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007.htm) kan (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan2007.htm) | 4 8 0 | 0 0 |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| TOTALS | 52 56 0 | 2 4 |
+----------+--------------+----------+

No consistency at all. So far he's 13-15 with the Chiefs. And you want to give him another 7 years? Hell no! He was 39-41 in 5 season with the Jets.

Drafting blame mostly lies with Peterson, although the head coach has some say in who gets picked too. But the coaching has been dismal at best this year. Terrible clock management(which Herm is well known for), even worse call playing and the most conservative football I've ever seen. I'm not sure where it's okay to have your record go backwards, even if a team is rebuilding. I didn't expect to more that 9-7. But a 4(if we're lucky maybe 5) win season is grounds for termination.

Chiefster
12-04-2007, 04:57 PM
Herm, Dungy and Lovie are defensive coordinators, IMO. None of them has ever assembled much of an offense. And Herm had five years with the Jets, dropping them to a 4-12 record, when he left...

Herm's on track for that very record here in just his second year with the Chiefs.

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 12:45 AM
You really think Cowher was an offensive minded coach? Come on, he was a Schottenheimer disciple.

Wait, just because Cowher didn't run 5 WRs out there (ala Mike Martz) or invent the West-Coast offense (a la Bill Walsh) doesn't mean he wasn't an offensive genius. Yeah, his teams didn't lead the league year in and year out in scoring or yards...but they did something that matters. They won 62% of the time. They consistently rushed the ball successfully, controlled the clock and did score, (both TDs and FGs). The year they finally won the SuperBowl, they had the 5th best rushing offense in the league, and averaged 24.3 points per game. Bill Cowher may be "defense-first" but don't kid yourself, he led a great offense in 2005 also...they were 9th in total offensive scoring, hey had 21 passing touchdowns and 21 rushing touchdowns. They had what you might call a "balanced offense".

Defense is still important, all you have to do is look at the Rams to know that....however without a great offense, only 1 defense has one a SuperBowl in the last 15 years (Baltimore)...the previous team that won with almost defense only was either the 1991 NY Giants (Phil Simms was so over-rated), or you'd have to go back to the 1970s.

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 12:48 AM
I like Lovie Smith...I think if/when he gets a genuine QB to run his offense he'll be fine. I also like Tony Dungy, but he doesn't pretend to be what he isn't. He allows his two offensive coordinators (Moore & Manning) to run the offense.

I think Herm Edwards biggest flaw isn't his coaching, but his inability to grasp the simple concept of managing the game clock. C'mon guys that has cost you 2-3 games this year. Getting beat on the field can happen to most teams...but getting beat on the sidelines shouldn't happen more than once every year or two.

texaschief
12-05-2007, 12:52 AM
Herm Edwards has NO business as a head coach. The numbers don't lie. His regular season record is 52 - 56 - 0 (0.481). He's not even a .500 coach.

+--------------+----------+
| Reg. Season | Playoffs |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| Year TM | W L T | W L |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2001.htm) | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 2002 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2002.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2002.htm) | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |
| 2003 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2003.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2003.htm) | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 2004 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2004.htm) | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 2005 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2005.htm) | 4 12 0 | 0 0 |
| 2006 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006.htm) kan (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan2006.htm) | 9 7 0 | 0 1 |
| 2007 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007.htm) kan (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan2007.htm) | 4 8 0 | 0 0 |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| TOTALS | 52 56 0 | 2 4 |
+----------+--------------+----------+

No consistency at all. So far he's 13-15 with the Chiefs. And you want to give him another 7 years? Hell no! He was 39-41 in 5 season with the Jets.

Drafting blame mostly lies with Peterson, although the head coach has some say in who gets picked too. But the coaching has been dismal at best this year. Terrible clock management(which Herm is well known for), even worse call playing and the most conservative football I've ever seen. I'm not sure where it's okay to have your record go backwards, even if a team is rebuilding. I didn't expect to more that 9-7. But a 4(if we're lucky maybe 5) win season is grounds for termination.

You post that record...great...now post his record when he has a consistent QB the whole season. You can blame him all you want for not drafting O-linemen, but his record is inconsitent because he's never had a truly consistent QB.

When you don't have a leader of the offense, you're not gonna score a whole lot of points. It's just ridiculous that people don't see that he's never had a real shot at building a team. 5 years with the Jets isn't exactly a long tenure. How long did it take Cower to win a Super Bowl again....and HE'S the guy y'all want? lmao

2 years here without a real QB or offensive line isn't exactly a fair shot. Take a breath, a step back, and relax for a bit. If you want to beat the drum to get someone fired, start fighting for Carl's head as hard as you're fighting for Herm's.

This is just ridiculous.

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 01:05 AM
You post that record...great...now post his record when he has a consistent QB the whole season. You can blame him all you want for not drafting O-linemen, but his record is inconsitent because he's never had a truly consistent QB.

When you don't have a leader of the offense, you're not gonna score a whole lot of points. It's just ridiculous that people don't see that he's never had a real shot at building a team. 5 years with the Jets isn't exactly a long tenure. How long did it take Cower to win a Super Bowl again....and HE'S the guy y'all want? lmao

2 years here without a real QB or offensive line isn't exactly a fair shot. Take a breath, a step back, and relax for a bit. If you want to beat the drum to get someone fired, start fighting for Carl's head as hard as you're fighting for Herm's.

This is just ridiculous.

I think most of the crowd has been calling for Carl's head as well. I see it everywhere. However as for the comment about his QBs getting injured, I'd call it a fluke except your point about his lack of emphasis (draft or free agent) on the O-line is a huge contributing factor both in NY and KC when it comes to the health of his QB. Huard got a year older but he didn't change that much from one season to the next...the difference is the loss of the final cog to that dominant KC O-line. It is unfortunate that Roaf and Shields both retired in the last couple years, but the difference between Carl Peterson and the GMs that have perrennial contending teams is that it is the GMs job to have a 2-5 year plan, and the coaches job to have a focus and plan for the next game. Sure Carl has to draft players that Herm wants, and fit his system, but he also has to say, umm Herm, we have two All-pro linemen in their mid 30s...we might want to grab that Winston Justice kid from USC, (or someone similar) here in the 2nd or 3rd round.

BOTH guys are culpable in the makeup of the team...only Herm is responsible for the lousy scheme considering his personnel.

timsatt1
12-05-2007, 01:10 AM
You post that record...great...now post his record when he has a consistent QB the whole season. You can blame him all you want for not drafting O-linemen, but his record is inconsitent because he's never had a truly consistent QB.

When you don't have a leader of the offense, you're not gonna score a whole lot of points. It's just ridiculous that people don't see that he's never had a real shot at building a team. 5 years with the Jets isn't exactly a long tenure. How long did it take Cower to win a Super Bowl again....and HE'S the guy y'all want? lmao

2 years here without a real QB or offensive line isn't exactly a fair shot. Take a breath, a step back, and relax for a bit. If you want to beat the drum to get someone fired, start fighting for Carl's head as hard as you're fighting for Herm's.

This is just ridiculous.

you are the only man i know....ON EARTH...that will defend Herm Edwards. Not even his grandmother will defend him anymore. But...you da man! :sign0098:

hermhater
12-05-2007, 01:16 AM
I think most of the crowd has been calling for Carl's head as well. I see it everywhere. However as for the comment about his QBs getting injured, I'd call it a fluke except your point about his lack of emphasis (draft or free agent) on the O-line is a huge contributing factor both in NY and KC when it comes to the health of his QB. Huard got a year older but he didn't change that much from one season to the next...the difference is the loss of the final cog to that dominant KC O-line. It is unfortunate that Roaf and Shields both retired in the last couple years, but the difference between Carl Peterson and the GMs that have perrennial contending teams is that it is the GMs job to have a 2-5 year plan, and the coaches job to have a focus and plan for the next game. Sure Carl has to draft players that Herm wants, and fit his system, but he also has to say, umm Herm, we have two All-pro linemen in their mid 30s...we might want to grab that Winston Justice kid from USC, (or someone similar) here in the 2nd or 3rd round.

BOTH guys are culpable in the makeup of the team...only Herm is responsible for the lousy scheme considering his personnel.

Please elaborate.

This is interesting.

:bananen_smilies046:

chief31
12-05-2007, 01:32 AM
You post that record...great...now post his record when he has a consistent QB the whole season. You can blame him all you want for not drafting O-linemen, but his record is inconsitent because he's never had a truly consistent QB.

When you don't have a leader of the offense, you're not gonna score a whole lot of points. It's just ridiculous that people don't see that he's never had a real shot at building a team. 5 years with the Jets isn't exactly a long tenure. How long did it take Cower to win a Super Bowl again....and HE'S the guy y'all want? lmao

2 years here without a real QB or offensive line isn't exactly a fair shot. Take a breath, a step back, and relax for a bit. If you want to beat the drum to get someone fired, start fighting for Carl's head as hard as you're fighting for Herm's.

This is just ridiculous.



In Cowhers first seven years, here is what he did...

71-41, including one season with a losing record. (7-9)

5-6 in the playoffs. That means that his team was in the playoffs for six out of his first seven years.

0-1 in the Super Bowl.

As for Herm...

52-56. Including (assuming the Chiefs don't win out) three of seven seasons with a losing record.

2-4 in the playoffs.

0 Super Bowl appearances.

Please show me where you see some advantage to the argument for Herm. Seriously. Not bashing Herm here, just not understanding the nagativity towards Cowher.

It is also my opinion that having just three losing seasons, out of fifteen, is pretty damn good. Especially with 6-10 being his worst season ever.

You are right about one thing though. The argument here is, most definitely, ridiculous.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/coach?id=6

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/coach?id=6

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 01:45 AM
In Cowhers first seven years, here is what he did...

71-41, including one season with a losing record. (7-9)

5-6 in the playoffs. That means that his team was in the playoffs for six out of his first seven years.

0-1 in the Super Bowl.

As for Herm...

52-56. Including (assuming the Chiefs don't win out) three of seven seasons with a losing record.

2-4 in the playoffs.

0 Super Bowl appearances.

Please show me where you see some advantage to the argument for Herm. Seriously. Not bashing Herm here, just not understanding the nagativity towards Cowher.

It is also my opinion that having just three losing seasons, out of fifteen, is pretty damn good. Especially with 6-10 being his worst season ever.

You are right about one thing though. The argument here is, most definitely, ridiculous.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/coach?id=6

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/coach?id=6

Well said 31...comparing Cowher and Edwards is not fair. It's like comparing the intelligence of Einstein and Gump (Forrest that is)

texaschief
12-05-2007, 02:05 AM
In Cowhers first seven years, here is what he did...

71-41, including one season with a losing record. (7-9)

5-6 in the playoffs. That means that his team was in the playoffs for six out of his first seven years.

0-1 in the Super Bowl.

As for Herm...

52-56. Including (assuming the Chiefs don't win out) three of seven seasons with a losing record.

2-4 in the playoffs.

0 Super Bowl appearances.

Please show me where you see some advantage to the argument for Herm. Seriously. Not bashing Herm here, just not understanding the nagativity towards Cowher.

It is also my opinion that having just three losing seasons, out of fifteen, is pretty damn good. Especially with 6-10 being his worst season ever.

You are right about one thing though. The argument here is, most definitely, ridiculous.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/coach?id=6

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/coach?id=6

again....still looking for a consistent QB for Herm. We know what Cower can do... 1 Super Bowl win in how many years?

texaschief
12-05-2007, 02:06 AM
I think most of the crowd has been calling for Carl's head as well. I see it everywhere. However as for the comment about his QBs getting injured, I'd call it a fluke except your point about his lack of emphasis (draft or free agent) on the O-line is a huge contributing factor both in NY and KC when it comes to the health of his QB. Huard got a year older but he didn't change that much from one season to the next...the difference is the loss of the final cog to that dominant KC O-line. It is unfortunate that Roaf and Shields both retired in the last couple years, but the difference between Carl Peterson and the GMs that have perrennial contending teams is that it is the GMs job to have a 2-5 year plan, and the coaches job to have a focus and plan for the next game. Sure Carl has to draft players that Herm wants, and fit his system, but he also has to say, umm Herm, we have two All-pro linemen in their mid 30s...we might want to grab that Winston Justice kid from USC, (or someone similar) here in the 2nd or 3rd round.

BOTH guys are culpable in the makeup of the team...only Herm is responsible for the lousy scheme considering his personnel.

I've said this same thing in other posts.

chief31
12-05-2007, 02:10 AM
again....still looking for a consistent QB for Herm. We know what Cower can do... 1 Super Bowl win in how many years?

Considering that there are thirty-two teams, (thirty when Cowher got started, I believe.) that means that each team has a 1/32 chance of winning a Super Bowl, all other aspects aside. If Cowher managed to win one in fifteen years, that puts him at better than 1/15 odds. That is far above the average. But, Cowher got his team to it's first Super Bowl in four years, while Herm has had seven and hasn't made it.

texaschief
12-05-2007, 02:11 AM
you are the only man i know....ON EARTH...that will defend Herm Edwards. Not even his grandmother will defend him anymore. But...you da man! :sign0098:

No, it's just stupid to look at what the guy has done with our defense in 2 seasons and not give him a chance to fix the offense. It may take another 2 seasons to fix the offense, but nobody seems to be willing to be patient. For all "high football I.Q." on this forum, it's just amazing to me that there is such an outcry for the head coach to be fired after his SECOND year with the team.

chief31
12-05-2007, 02:12 AM
In seven years, Herm has yet to reach so much as an 11-5 record. 10-6 is the best that he has done. The consistent QB is his own fault.

texaschief
12-05-2007, 02:16 AM
Considering that there are thirty-two teams, (thirty when Cowher got started, I believe.) that means that each team has a 1/32 chance of winning a Super Bowl, all other aspects aside. If Cowher managed to win one in fifteen years, that puts him at better than 1/15 odds. That is far above the average. But, Cowher got his team to it's first Super Bowl in four years, while Herm has had seven and hasn't made it.

how does this post address the fact Herm has yet to have a real QB?

Did Cower have to come in and COMPLETELY rebuild his defense while his offense retired? I would argue that his first season with an 11-5 record would say otherwise.

hermhater
12-05-2007, 02:17 AM
No, it's just stupid to look at what the guy has done with our defense in 2 seasons and not give him a chance to fix the offense. It may take another 2 seasons to fix the offense, but nobody seems to be willing to be patient. For all "high football I.Q." on this forum, it's just amazing to me that there is such an outcry for the head coach to be fired after his SECOND year with the team.

Herm has inherited two teams and ground them both into the ground, one offensive (and now defensive) player at a time.

So you agree with Herm it is just bad luck when you lose 5 QB's in one year?

texaschief
12-05-2007, 02:17 AM
In seven years, Herm has yet to reach so much as an 11-5 record. 10-6 is the best that he has done. The consistent QB is his own fault.

says you...almighty 31.

prough91
12-05-2007, 02:17 AM
Sure Carl has to draft players that Herm wants

I think it's pretty obvious that Schottenheimer and Vermeil held a lot of sway with Peterson on who he would draft, but I wonder if Herm has the same amount of pull as they did. For some reason, and this is just a gut feeling, I think Herm is just kind of Peterson's lap dog.

Chiefster
12-05-2007, 02:18 AM
Well said 31...comparing Cowher and Edwards is not fair. It's like comparing the intelligence of Einstein and Gump (Forrest that is)


Life is like a box of choc-o-lates...

texaschief
12-05-2007, 02:20 AM
Herm has inherited two teams and ground them both into the ground, one offensive (and now defensive) player at a time.

So you agree with Herm it is just bad luck when you lose 5 QB's in one year?

I've posted it before, but that "horrid" O-line in New York that kept getting their QBs hurt was the same line that allowed Curtis to record setting rushing performances. So, with a line like that, yeah, i'd say luck had something to do with it.

hermhater
12-05-2007, 02:22 AM
I've posted it before, but that "horrid" O-line in New York that kept getting their QBs hurt was the same line that allowed Curtis to record setting rushing performances. So, with a line like that, yeah, i'd say luck had something to do with it.

And now Curtis is gone with injuries.

That equals Herm's style off offense. Kill the Offense to let the defense look good.

Why don't you just post an entire thread to praising Herm? Obviously you can't see past Carl and see our current threat.

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 02:39 AM
...the difference between Carl Peterson and the GMs that have perrennial contending teams is that it is the GMs job to have a 2-5 year plan,.


Please elaborate.

This is interesting.

:bananen_smilies046:

Well take for example the Colts. They've been a successful team for years. They have most definitely one of the best offenses in the league...anyone know who their top pick in the last draft was...

oh a WR? Why is that their most pressing need. No they needed more help on defense...but they have an aging star at WR in Marvin Harrison, who has by the way met father time this year, and struggled with injury...Insert Anthony Gonzalez.

Aging Left Tackle in Tariq Glenn...oh he retires...guess what, they drafted one this year because they knew their guy was getting older.

RB getting old (Edgerrin James), we'll draft Addai, and platoon him with Rhodes until he's NFL-ready

Aging DT (McFarland), lets draft Johnson, just in case he can't stay healthy.

The only place they don't have a quality backup plan is QB, and that's because you can't replace the elder Manning brother anyhow.

Looking at their roster, I'd expect that Indy will draft another WR this year in the first 3 rounds (Harrison is 35 and Wayne is almost 30), they'll also likely draft a Center (Saturday is over 30), and possibly another DT.

Why, because winning teams draft what they'll need in 2-3 years, not what they need NOW. Sure they may end up playing a rookie if they have to, or if the guy is a stud (Addai last year)...but they'd rather sit the rookie for a year or two and let him come in and play as a veteran (Marlin Jackson or Ben Utecht)...

Unfortunately my team (49ers) and your team (KC) are in a position where they need to draft for now, because the management in place won't have jobs in 2-3 years if things don't get better, but as you can see that approach doesn't fix things as it takes 4+ years to build a team that way, and most of those rookies will leave in free agency before you improve.

Here is a list of KC's potential free agents

Boomer Grigsby RFA
Travis Wilson RFA
Sammie Parker UFA
Kris Wilson UFA
Chris Terry UFA
Kyle Turley UFA
Casey Wiegmann UFA
Jared Allen UFA
Jimmy Wilkerson UFA
Keyaron Fox UFA
William Bartee UFA

That being said, Jared Allen first and foremost needs to be signed, even if that means using the franchise tag. Weigman should likely be signed as Centers are hard to come by. A few others on this list could be quality contributors as role players and or special teams guys...I'd let Turley, and Parker go (unless they accept roles as backups, and get paid as backups)

The first priority outside Allen, should be getting a quality Offensive Tackle. Faneca and Starks are the known names that might be available...but others that should be considered and may be better values (allowing for other acquisitions) are:

Flozell Adams (DAL)
Jordan Gross (CAR)
Adrian Jones (NYJ) (could come cheap, has big potential)

I'd look for a solid OL or two in the draft also (preferrable a Tackle early and a Guard in the 3rd or 4th round.)

Secondly 1 or 2 quality DBs...Samuel is the name on this years list, but Drayton Florence (SD) and Marcus Trufant (Sea) will likely both be available and would be better values (based on $$$ they'll command)

Finally I'd draft a big DT in the first or 2nd round next year. Guessing that the Chiefs will pick around 9th or 10th, Sedrick Ellis (USC) should be around still, if not the first round pick of an OT would be a great addition. Chris Williams (Vanderbilt) may move up before draft day, but I'm guessing he'll be there around 10...and I like him better than some of the guys Kiper ranks higher.

Chiefster
12-05-2007, 02:43 AM
I think most of the crowd has been calling for Carl's head as well. I see it everywhere. However as for the comment about his QBs getting injured, I'd call it a fluke except your point about his lack of emphasis (draft or free agent) on the O-line is a huge contributing factor both in NY and KC when it comes to the health of his QB. Huard got a year older but he didn't change that much from one season to the next...the difference is the loss of the final cog to that dominant KC O-line. It is unfortunate that Roaf and Shields both retired in the last couple years, but the difference between Carl Peterson and the GMs that have perrennial contending teams is that it is the GMs job to have a 2-5 year plan, and the coaches job to have a focus and plan for the next game. Sure Carl has to draft players that Herm wants, and fit his system, but he also has to say, umm Herm, we have two All-pro linemen in their mid 30s...we might want to grab that Winston Justice kid from USC, (or someone similar) here in the 2nd or 3rd round.

BOTH guys are culpable in the makeup of the team...only Herm is responsible for the lousy scheme considering his personnel.

We're in about year twenty of Carl's five year plan.

texaschief
12-05-2007, 02:58 AM
And now Curtis is gone with injuries.

That equals Herm's style off offense. Kill the Offense to let the defense look good.

Why don't you just post an entire thread to praising Herm? Obviously you can't see past Carl and see our current threat.

The O-line was being mentioned before and during the draft but nobody anticipated our line being THIS BAD. On paper, the line didn't look as bad as they are performing. We got a better OT to replace Black, kept Waters and Wiegman and moved another OT to his natural position at Guard to replace a VERY OLD Shields. The only REAL question mark was at the other OT spot.

Now that management realized these players couldn't perform either to their usual standard or to their potential, i think the problem will be addressed this offseason. Even if Carl Peterson is still here for the next draft (which i doubt), even he isn't stupid enough NOT to fix the line this year.

This crap just needs to be dropped. I'm not going to change y'alls mind because y'all see losses and want to fire people with no reguard to the progress being made on this team. Seems like y'all got spoiled with a good offense and all you ppl want are points...not titles.

If winning titles is all about offense, how come we didn't get at least ONE with Vermiel?...anyone?

Exactly...you can't run out a JV high school defense on the field and expect to compete. Now that we have an NFL defense on the field we should be patient enough to allow him to fix the offense. 3-4 more years at the minimum.

hermhater
12-05-2007, 03:09 AM
The O-line was being mentioned before and during the draft but nobody anticipated our line being THIS BAD. On paper, the line didn't look as bad as they are performing. We got a better OT to replace Black, kept Waters and Wiegman and moved another OT to his natural position at Guard to replace a VERY OLD Shields. The only REAL question mark was at the other OT spot.

Now that management realized these players couldn't perform either to their usual standard or to their potential, i think the problem will be addressed this offseason. Even if Carl Peterson is still here for the next draft (which i doubt), even he isn't stupid enough NOT to fix the line this year.

This crap just needs to be dropped. I'm not going to change y'alls mind because y'all see losses and want to fire people with no reguard to the progress being made on this team. Seems like y'all got spoiled with a good offense and all you ppl want are points...not titles.

If winning titles is all about offense, how come we didn't get at least ONE with Vermiel?...anyone?

Exactly...you can't run out a JV high school defense on the field and expect to compete. Now that we have an NFL defense on the field we should be patient enough to allow him to fix the offense. 3-4 more years at the minimum.

The defense has given up everything in the last 4 games and you are defending them?

So you still believe, like Herm, that we should win a lot of games with 10 points?

How has that worked out this year?

chief31
12-05-2007, 03:13 AM
how does this post address the fact Herm has yet to have a real QB?

Did Cower have to come in and COMPLETELY rebuild his defense while his offense retired? I would argue that his first season with an 11-5 record would say otherwise.

The fact that Herm has never had a "real" Qb is Herm Edwards' fault.

Seems to me that Herm did have a very steady quarterback in '06. Trent Green had some kind of 80-90 start streak going, with a couple of recent Pro Bowls and 4000 yard seasons.

Cowher took over an average team, at 7-9. It took him seven years to return them to a losing record...7-9.

chief31
12-05-2007, 03:22 AM
I've posted it before, but that "horrid" O-line in New York that kept getting their QBs hurt was the same line that allowed Curtis to record setting rushing performances. So, with a line like that, yeah, i'd say luck had something to do with it.

The fact that you can run-block doesn't mean that you are great pass blockers.

In '05, the Jets allowed the third most sacks in the NFL.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=933A08295476E68DB728C0D10 C948254?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2005&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1

Prior to that, they were in the middle of the pack, in the lower thirty-somethings. If you account for the rarity at which Herms teams like to throw the ball, then factor in how rare it is that he calls for anything down the field, it isn't very good.

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 03:29 AM
The fact that you can run-block doesn't mean that you are great pass blockers.

In '05, the Jets allowed the third most sacks in the NFL.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=933A08295476E68DB728C0D10 C948254?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2005&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1

Prior to that, they were in the middle of the pack, in the lower thirty-somethings. If you account for the rarity at which Herms teams like to throw the ball, then factor in how rare it is that he calls for anything down the field, it isn't very good.

Great point...run-blocking and pass-blocking are two different skills. See Mike Williams from Jacksonville...Great, almost feared run-blocker when healthy...lousy, almost laughable pass blocker. He's on the IR right now, and is likely going to be allowed to leave as a free agent at the end of the year. He might be a great pickup for the Herm, I don't want to pass system. (Sorry guys)

hermhater
12-05-2007, 03:31 AM
Great point...run-blocking and pass-blocking are two different skills. See Mike Williams from Jacksonville...Great, almost feared run-blocker when healthy...lousy, almost laughable pass blocker. He's on the IR right now, and is likely going to be allowed to leave as a free agent at the end of the year. He might be a great pickup for the Herm, I don't want to pass system. (Sorry guys)

What does that mean?

chief31
12-05-2007, 03:31 AM
Unfortunately, that sounds about right.

Chiefster
12-05-2007, 03:34 AM
The fact that you can run-block doesn't mean that you are great pass blockers.

In '05, the Jets allowed the third most sacks in the NFL.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=933A08295476E68DB728C0D10 C948254?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2005&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1

Prior to that, they were in the middle of the pack, in the lower thirty-somethings. If you account for the rarity at which Herms teams like to throw the ball, then factor in how rare it is that he calls for anything down the field, it isn't very good.

Post of the month nomination there!

prough91
12-05-2007, 03:46 AM
Has any one else noticed how Kolby Smith performs at blocking?

Chiefster
12-05-2007, 03:47 AM
Has any one else noticed how Kolby Smith performs at blocking?

I had not.

prough91
12-05-2007, 03:50 AM
I think he's better than LJ. Of course, after LJ's holdout, I just really don't care for him that much anymore. I don't think he tries nearly as hard since he got his money. Plus, Kolby reminds me a little bit of Priest Holmes.

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 03:51 AM
Has any one else noticed how Kolby Smith performs at blocking?


I had not.

Generally, if it isn't being noticed, then its not likely a major problem.

Chiefster
12-05-2007, 03:52 AM
I think he's better than LJ. Of course, after LJ's holdout, I just really don't care for him that much anymore. I don't think he tries nearly as hard since he got his money. Plus, Kolby reminds me a little bit of Priest Holmes.

I thought the same thing; their running styles are very similar IMO.

prough91
12-05-2007, 03:59 AM
I thought the same thing; their running styles are very similar IMO.

They're sneaky quick. They look for the holes the defense gives them.

hermhater
12-05-2007, 03:59 AM
Generally, if it isn't being noticed, then its not likely a major problem.

So can Kolby block or not?

I haven't even gone back over the game yet.

I guess no one wants to see it again anyways.

prough91
12-05-2007, 04:01 AM
So can Kolby block or not?

I haven't even gone back over the game yet.

I guess no one wants to see it again anyways.

I was watching him last Sunday and I think he was better than LJ

Chiefster
12-05-2007, 04:06 AM
They're sneaky quick. They look for the holes the defense gives them.

They have too 'cause the "O" line isn't going open up any. :11:

rbedgood
12-05-2007, 04:46 AM
I didn't see the game last weekend. I haven't heard much about his blocking, but there were a number of sacks. The general consensus that I've heard is that most of the sacks came from Huard holding onto the ball too long. If that's the case the issue isn't with Smith's blocking. In general rookies need some time to get the blocking schemes down, so I'd figure he'll only get better at that.

I just watched the highlights of the game, which showed a couple of things...first of all on the sack at the start of the 4th quarter, Kolby Smith was in a pass route (circle route around the line) and was open...Huard held the ball. As for the INT at the 5:22 mark in 4th quarter, Smith did a decent job of picking up the blitzer to Huards blind side...(which is his primary responsibility...Huard then proceeded to throw into double coverage when there was a blitz on...that is baffling. Especially when the hot route receiver (I think the fullback) was wide open. Finally the video on NFL.com shows Thigpen's pick...on this play you'll see KSmith in position to block, he recognizes no blitz, and goes into a delayed pass route.

He is playing very well for a rookie from what I can see...not just in running, but in execution of his responsibilities.

Chiefster
12-05-2007, 06:01 AM
Yeah, I think that if he continues to develop, then he'll do well, provided that he doesn't sustain any serious injury trying to make something happen with this inept "O" line.

prough91
12-08-2007, 10:13 AM
I would love to see Kolby make LJ look like a punk. I've never cared for LJ's attitude much and the holdout kind of pissed me off. Funny thing, if another player like JA held out, I wouldn't be mad at all because I like his attitude. Wierd huh?

timsatt1
12-08-2007, 11:48 AM
I would love to see Kolby make LJ look like a punk. I've never cared for LJ's attitude much and the holdout kind of pissed me off. Funny thing, if another player like JA held out, I wouldn't be mad at all because I like his attitude. Wierd huh?


good to have another person on this board that cant stand LJ's attitude. That makes for a total of 3.

this board has some big LJ fans....you will find that out soon. i have spoken out against LJ from day 1.

chief31
12-08-2007, 12:21 PM
good to have another person on this board that cant stand LJ's attitude. That makes for a total of 3.

this board has some big LJ fans....you will find that out soon. i have spoken out against LJ from day 1.

I think it may be higher than three. I, for one, have had a problem with LJs attitude for quite a while also.

I may take a slight interest in defending his performance so far this season, but I would still be fine with seeing him in a different colored uniform next season. (Non-divisional, of course.)

greg3564
12-08-2007, 02:17 PM
I think it may be higher than three. I, for one, have had a problem with LJs attitude for quite a while also.

I may take a slight interest in defending his performance so far this season, but I would still be fine with seeing him in a different colored uniform next season. (Non-divisional, of course.)

LJ is a locker room virus. It's been "leaked" by other players that he is not very well liked. And what is up with the secretive injury? I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. I think he's more hurt than people think and is trying to get a couple games in before the season is over so that he can get traded in the off season.

I honestly believe he'll be in a different uniform next year. He can free up a lot of cap space and fetch us some trades in return or draft picks. Everyone who defends LJ and Herm have to realize that if it takes 3 years to bebuild(like Herm keeps telling us), LJ will be 30 and past his prime anyway or close to it. So why not trade him and get some good draft picks or young free agents in place so that in 3 years we'll be in good shape?

Guru
12-08-2007, 02:46 PM
You post that record...great...now post his record when he has a consistent QB the whole season. You can blame him all you want for not drafting O-linemen, but his record is inconsitent because he's never had a truly consistent QB.

When you don't have a leader of the offense, you're not gonna score a whole lot of points. It's just ridiculous that people don't see that he's never had a real shot at building a team. 5 years with the Jets isn't exactly a long tenure. How long did it take Cower to win a Super Bowl again....and HE'S the guy y'all want? lmao

2 years here without a real QB or offensive line isn't exactly a fair shot. Take a breath, a step back, and relax for a bit. If you want to beat the drum to get someone fired, start fighting for Carl's head as hard as you're fighting for Herm's.

This is just ridiculous.

Call me when Herm ever has a QB that is not injured due to lack of protection. It is not the QBs fault that they get injured EVERY SINGLE YEAR under Herm.

chief31
12-08-2007, 09:15 PM
LJ is a locker room virus. It's been "leaked" by other players that he is not very well liked. And what is up with the secretive injury? I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. I think he's more hurt than people think and is trying to get a couple games in before the season is over so that he can get traded in the off season.

I honestly believe he'll be in a different uniform next year. He can free up a lot of cap space and fetch us some trades in return or draft picks. Everyone who defends LJ and Herm have to realize that if it takes 3 years to bebuild(like Herm keeps telling us), LJ will be 30 and past his prime anyway or close to it. So why not trade him and get some good draft picks or young free agents in place so that in 3 years we'll be in good shape?

I could list my complaints about LJs personality too, but I just don't feel like it. (It'd take awhile.)

I hope that you are right. I hope that the Chiefs can find a way to get something for him. But I doubt it. That's something that we will have to wait and see on.

Chiefster
12-08-2007, 09:35 PM
Call me when Herm ever has a QB that is not injured due to lack of protection. It is not the QBs fault that they get injured EVERY SINGLE YEAR under Herm.



BINGO!!!!!! Could not have said it any better!

Rep!