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m0ef0e
12-11-2007, 02:28 PM
As much as I hate to say it: getting totally butt-raped by the Broncos on Sunday is probably one of the best things that could have happened to this franchise at this point. This organization is in need of some major house-cleaning at the highest levels of the current power structure and the embarassment suffered last Sunday should help to outrage enough people to spur some action. Changes need to be made and certain people need to go-- Tony Gonzales said so himself after the game at Invesco and I couldn't agree more.

I have made my case for what particular "trash" I think needs to be taken out in the thread "Enough!"-- posted after the debacle against the Raiders. First, is Carl Peterson who has inflated ticket prices by over 300 percent since the Chiefs last won a playoff game in 1994. Along with raising even the parking prices, Mr. Peterson is also the source of a continuous stream of draft-day blunders. I could write an entire book about the inadequacies of Peterson, however I will save that for another time.

I still think Herm Edwards may need to go as well but if there is any doubt there concerning Edwards, there is absolutely none concerning Mike Solari. The Chiefs' offensive gameplan and playcalling were so atrocious this season that any offensive coordinator responsible for such a mess should be fired without hesitation. Some may be satisfied to keep Edwards if Solari takes the fall but I think we may see more of the same even with another coordinator. If what we have seen from the Chiefs this season is truly Herm Edwards' style of football, then he too must go without question. You can't play to not lose the game. Herm needs to take his own advice and play to win. To not attempt to capitalize on opportunity in fear of making a mistake is pure folly and incompetence as a leader of a football team. I do not want to see another season of the Chiefs' offensive unit playing in shackles. Not again. Not ever. You have to take some chances and try to gain an advantage over your opponent with suprise and misdirection. You have to allow your offense the freedom to try and score points. Yes, Herm-- points. You know, those things that win games? Yeah, we need those.

Coach
12-11-2007, 03:52 PM
I agree that a loss like this one brings light to a very big problem. I don't get the KC Star, but I hope they ripped the team a new one.

I'm most disappointed in the Chiefs defense. Just because they are capable of playing good ball. Everyone knew the offense would struggle with both tackles being gone among other things. But the defense just didn't give any effort.

In my opinion, they owe it to the offense to show up every week considering how long the KC offense carried the defense under the Dickie V regime.

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 12:09 AM
As much as I hate to say it: getting totally butt-raped by the Broncos on Sunday is probably one of the best things that could have happened to this franchise at this point. This organization is in need of some major house-cleaning at the highest levels of the current power structure and the embarassment suffered last Sunday should help to outrage enough people to spur some action. Changes need to be made and certain people need to go-- Tony Gonzales said so himself after the game at Invesco and I couldn't agree more.

I have made my case for what particular "trash" I think needs to be taken out in the thread "Enough!"-- posted after the debacle against the Raiders. First, is Carl Peterson who has inflated ticket prices by over 300 percent since the Chiefs last won a playoff game in 1994. Along with raising even the parking prices, Mr. Peterson is also the source of a continuous stream of draft-day blunders. I could write an entire book about the inadequacies of Peterson, however I will save that for another time.

I still think Herm Edwards may need to go as well but if there is any doubt there concerning Edwards, there is absolutely none concerning Mike Solari. The Chiefs' offensive gameplan and playcalling were so atrocious this season that any offensive coordinator responsible for such a mess should be fired without hesitation. Some may be satisfied to keep Edwards if Solari takes the fall but I think we may see more of the same even with another coordinator. If what we have seen from the Chiefs this season is truly Herm Edwards' style of football, then he too must go without question. You can't play to not lose the game. Herm needs to take his own advice and play to win. To not attempt to capitalize on opportunity in fear of making a mistake is pure folly and incompetence as a leader of a football team. I do not want to see another season of the Chiefs' offensive unit playing in shackles. Not again. Not ever. You have to take some chances and try to gain an advantage over your opponent with suprise and misdirection. You have to allow your offense the freedom to try and score points. Yes, Herm-- points. You know, those things that win games? Yeah, we need those.


i agree 100% with this post.

not so sure you want me of all people to endorse your threads though, lol.

BUT i disagree with coach about being mad at the defense? why? cause they played a lot of good games this year but finally had a terrible game?

we are talking one bad game out of the year so far. and you are mad? i love our defense. they are the only reason WE still sat through and watched every chiefs game this year.

no complaints here for their one bad game.

DrunkHillbilly
12-12-2007, 12:24 AM
i agree 100% with this post.

not so sure you want me of all people to endorse your threads though, lol.

BUT i disagree with coach about being mad at the defense? why? cause they played a lot of good games this year but finally had a terrible game?

we are talking one bad game out of the year so far. and you are mad? i love our defense. they are the only reason WE still sat through and watched every chiefs game this year.

no complaints here for their one bad game.
Let's see here, I'm in agreeance that our D started out ok but by no means outstanding. My wonder is how anyone can say they are satisfied with the D and some even happy with it!!!! They have allowed 271 points to be scored on them and we have lost 6 fricken games in a row!!!!!!!!!! Happy with the D?????????????

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 12:37 AM
Let's see here, I'm in agreeance that our D started out ok but by no means outstanding. My wonder is how anyone can say they are satisfied with the D and some even happy with it!!!! They have allowed 271 points to be scored on them and we have lost 6 fricken games in a row!!!!!!!!!! Happy with the D?????????????


i am not necessarily happy or do i think they are the greatest, but i dont think they are by any means a bad defense and dont get upset over one bad game on their part.

the D didnt lose 6 games in a row. The combination of offense + defense + special teams + game manager lost 6 in a row..but i am gonna say of all those i listed, the defense is less at fault than any other.

DrunkHillbilly
12-12-2007, 12:40 AM
i am not necessarily happy or do i think they are the greatest, but i dont think they are by any means a bad defense and dont get upset over one bad game on their part.

the D didnt lose 6 games in a row. The combination of offense + defense + special teams + game manager lost 6 in a row..but i am gonna say of all those i listed, the defense is less at fault than any other.
I bet there aren't 12 teams that have given up more points than we have. If that is the case and we have given up more points than over half of the league, we are NOT a good defense.

Hayvern
12-12-2007, 12:44 AM
Look, Herm Edwards has to go, he is not the only problem, but if you even remotely think that the offensive coordinator has to go, then you have to fire Edwards as well.

The reason? Edwards is responsible for the game plan, he is responsible for providing the plays the coordinator will call in specific situations on the field and that has been one of the biggest issues with this team.

Edwards is also responsible for preparing this team to win and week after week, he has failed to do that. I don't have nearly as much of a problem with anyone on staff as I do Edwards at this point. He is NOT the answer.

I am also not as optomistic that he will go. Why? I think Peterson and the Hunts have accepted they are rebuilding mode, they let go a number of good veteran players that are still able to contribute. Anyway, Peterson recognizes they are rebuilding and I do not think they will fire Edwards because of that. I hope I am wrong though.

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 12:44 AM
I bet there aren't 12 teams that have given up more points than we have. If that is the case and we have given up more points than over half of the league, we are NOT a good defense.

if i am correct, you are not a big fan of our defense.

i personally dont have a problem with the defense.

there are a lot of factors that go into "defensive statistics".

when your offense only has the ball for very little of the half or game for that matter because they keep going 3 and out, then your defense has to actually "play defense" for more minutes than most teams defenses have to play. you also have to throw in field position. if the KC special teams are worst in field position cause they cant get a decent return, then the offense goes 3 and out and we are punting from our own 20....well now the defense already has a big whammy on them because the other team's offense is starting near our half.

there are so many factors to throw in you cant rely just on one thing like how many points we have been scored on.

maybe you could do a stat like how many points we have been scored on per minutes on defense as opposed to how many points we have been scored on per game.

DrunkHillbilly
12-12-2007, 12:48 AM
if i am correct, you are not a big fan of our defense.

i personally dont have a problem with the defense.

there are a lot of factors that go into "defensive statistics".

when your offense only has the ball for very little of the half or game for that matter because they keep going 3 and out, then your defense has to actually "play defense" for more minutes than most teams defenses have to play. you also have to throw in field position. if the KC special teams are worst in field position cause they cant get a decent return, then the offense goes 3 and out and we are punting from our own 20....well now the defense already has a big whammy on them because the other team's offense is starting near our half.

there are so many factors to throw in you cant rely just on one thing like how many points we have been scored on.

maybe you could do a stat like how many points we have been scored on per minutes on defense as opposed to how many points we have been scored on per game.
The Patriots score faster than any other team in the league therefore their D is on the field quite often. They don't give up crazy numbers like we do.

I know about all the factors but our D isn't all everyone thinks it is. Not that I'm not a fan of it, there are just sooooooo many different places we need help in it's ridiculous!!!

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 12:50 AM
The Patriots score faster than any other team in the league therefore their D is on the field quite often. They don't give up crazy numbers like we do.

I know about all the factors but our D isn't all everyone thinks it is. Not that I'm not a fan of it, there are just sooooooo many different places we need help in it's ridiculous!!!

it is hard to tell what the chiefs defense might truly rank because of how bad special teams and offense are. so i cant argue either way. you may very well b e right that we have some problems with our d.


but with the patriots logic....the patriots are still getting to kick it off...most of the times getting their opponent's starting field position to their own 20. chiefs are never so fortunate.

hermhater
12-12-2007, 12:53 AM
Look, Herm Edwards has to go, he is not the only problem, but if you even remotely think that the offensive coordinator has to go, then you have to fire Edwards as well.

The reason? Edwards is responsible for the game plan, he is responsible for providing the plays the coordinator will call in specific situations on the field and that has been one of the biggest issues with this team.

Edwards is also responsible for preparing this team to win and week after week, he has failed to do that. I don't have nearly as much of a problem with anyone on staff as I do Edwards at this point. He is NOT the answer.

I am also not as optomistic that he will go. Why? I think Peterson and the Hunts have accepted they are rebuilding mode, they let go a number of good veteran players that are still able to contribute. Anyway, Peterson recognizes they are rebuilding and I do not think they will fire Edwards because of that. I hope I am wrong though.

Hey man, I like your style!

Stick around awhile!

:sign0098:

hermhater
12-12-2007, 12:55 AM
if i am correct, you are not a big fan of our defense.

i personally dont have a problem with the defense.

there are a lot of factors that go into "defensive statistics".

when your offense only has the ball for very little of the half or game for that matter because they keep going 3 and out, then your defense has to actually "play defense" for more minutes than most teams defenses have to play. you also have to throw in field position. if the KC special teams are worst in field position cause they cant get a decent return, then the offense goes 3 and out and we are punting from our own 20....well now the defense already has a big whammy on them because the other team's offense is starting near our half.

there are so many factors to throw in you cant rely just on one thing like how many points we have been scored on.

maybe you could do a stat like how many points we have been scored on per minutes on defense as opposed to how many points we have been scored on per game.

Herm has done one thing well, and that is using Colquitt at every freakin' opportunity.

He has given the D great field position the entire year.

Do you even think before you post?

At least I am drunk, what's your excuse?

Guru
12-12-2007, 12:56 AM
i agree 100% with this post.

not so sure you want me of all people to endorse your threads though, lol.

BUT i disagree with coach about being mad at the defense? why? cause they played a lot of good games this year but finally had a terrible game?

we are talking one bad game out of the year so far. and you are mad? i love our defense. they are the only reason WE still sat through and watched every chiefs game this year.

no complaints here for their one bad game.

Hermy needs somebody to throw under the bus every week. If we performed perfectly in all three phases of the game, he would still find somebody to throw under the bus (the media for doubting him) while patting himself on the back.

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 12:58 AM
Herm has done one thing well, and that is using Colquitt at every freakin' opportunity.

He has given the D great field position the entire year.

Do you even think before you post?

At least I am drunk, what's your excuse?



drunks are good for only one thing in life and that is posting parrots on chiefs message forumns.

Hayvern
12-12-2007, 01:08 AM
Well a funny thing happened today. As you all know I live in Southern California. We had a cold spell today, it got down to 56 degrees today so I had to put on my new KC pull over that I got when I made the trip to KC in November.

Man talk about the ridicule I got when I came in through the door. One guy made a statement that he had a new found respect for me for my ability to stand by my team through the good and the bad.

It was a tough day, but I held my head high and sported my colors all day. I intend to do that all the rest of this week and everyday a jacket is needed until the Chiefs get a win... or the season ends.... or Herm is fired.....

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 01:16 AM
Well a funny thing happened today. As you all know I live in Southern California. We had a cold spell today, it got down to 56 degrees today so I had to put on my new KC pull over that I got when I made the trip to KC in November.

Man talk about the ridicule I got when I came in through the door. One guy made a statement that he had a new found respect for me for my ability to stand by my team through the good and the bad.

It was a tough day, but I held my head high and sported my colors all day. I intend to do that all the rest of this week and everyday a jacket is needed until the Chiefs get a win... or the season ends.... or Herm is fired.....

well i wore my kc chiefs sweatshirt today as i do many days while working, but luckily i live in wichita, which is chiefs country so i do not have to put up with the ridicule that you do.

and if anyone does say anything, i say i wear this in honor of the dick vermeil era chiefs, not this current herm edwards administration.

Hayvern
12-12-2007, 01:24 AM
My favorite come back, that is getting hard to use ever loss is this one:

"At least I am not a Raiders fan!"

That is always good for a conversation starter.

hermhater
12-12-2007, 01:29 AM
Well a funny thing happened today. As you all know I live in Southern California. We had a cold spell today, it got down to 56 degrees today so I had to put on my new KC pull over that I got when I made the trip to KC in November.

Man talk about the ridicule I got when I came in through the door. One guy made a statement that he had a new found respect for me for my ability to stand by my team through the good and the bad.

It was a tough day, but I held my head high and sported my colors all day. I intend to do that all the rest of this week and everyday a jacket is needed until the Chiefs get a win... or the season ends.... or Herm is fired.....

You should have called me man!

I like it when Chiefs fans come from out of town and buy me beer!

:bananen_smilies046: :lol:

Hayvern
12-12-2007, 01:33 AM
Next year for sure, my friend and I have made it a plan to travel to Mecca at least once each year to catch a game. If possible it will be a Raiders game.

Guru
12-12-2007, 01:44 AM
well i wore my kc chiefs sweatshirt today as i do many days while working, but luckily i live in wichita, which is chiefs country so i do not have to put up with the ridicule that you do.

and if anyone does say anything, i say i wear this in honor of the dick vermeil era chiefs, not this current herm edwards administration.

If you want to pick an era, at least pick a successful one. Hank Stram.

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 01:48 AM
If you want to pick an era, at least pick a successful one. Hank Stram.


well i would feel the need to pick an era that i was alive for, and dicky's was my favorite by far with his high flying offense and his 13-3 season where i went to that playoff game at arrowhead, sadly to see my team lose to payton, one of the greatest ever to play the game.

Guru
12-12-2007, 01:50 AM
well i would feel the need to pick an era that i was alive for, and dicky's was my favorite by far with his high flying offense and his 13-3 season where i went to that playoff game at arrowhead, sadly to see my team lose to payton, one of the greatest ever to play the game.

Glad someone can find redeeming qualities in Vermeil's tenure. I view it as a disappointment.

hermhater
12-12-2007, 01:56 AM
Glad someone can find redeeming qualities in Vermeil's tenure. I view it as a disappointment.

Why is that?

It's not Vermeils fault Peyton is a stud.

I didn't like the poor defense, but EVERY game was fun to watch, TG got most of his stats during those years, and Dicky is just such a nice crying guy

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 01:57 AM
Why is that?

It's not Vermeils fault Peyton is a stud.

I didn't like the poor defense, but EVERY game was fun to watch, TG got most of his stats during those years, and Dicky is just such a nice crying guy

how can you not like dick?


wait, maybe i should rephrase that in some way.

prough91
12-12-2007, 02:24 AM
]I bet there aren't 12 teams that have given up more points than we have.[/B] If that is the case and we have given up more points than over half of the league, we are NOT a good defense.

They're are 19 teams that gave up more points then we have. The D started out really solid at the beginning of the year, but I think they just wore down as the year went on. I'd find it hard to get up for a game every week if I knew the offense was just going to piss it away.

Guru
12-12-2007, 02:31 AM
Why is that?

It's not Vermeils fault Peyton is a stud.

I didn't like the poor defense, but EVERY game was fun to watch, TG got most of his stats during those years, and Dicky is just such a nice crying guy

It is Vermeil's fault that our D could not force one single punt in that game.

timsatt1
12-12-2007, 02:33 AM
It is Vermeil's fault that our D could not force one single punt in that game.

but if our D wasnt so bad, then our offense wouldnt feel the need to entertain us with so many wonderful points!!! :yahoo: :yahoo:

hermhater
12-12-2007, 02:33 AM
It is Vermeil's fault that our D could not force one single punt in that game.

As was shown last year, many other teams had the same problem. Namely ALL of them.

Indy won the big game, and they deserved it. They were the best team.

I know our D sucked then, but I believe the team that scores the most points will win the game now days.

And it just so happens that now days it takes over 30 points to win most games.

The days of the Dominant D are over.

Get a clue HERM!!!!

prough91
12-12-2007, 02:35 AM
It is Vermeil's fault that our D could not force one single punt in that game.

I totally agree, but, God, that was a fun game to watch.

Guru
12-12-2007, 02:39 AM
I totally agree, but, God, that was a fun game to watch.

It was agonizing for me. I felt very strongly that the outcome was going to be exactly what it was.

sometimes I hate being me.

hermhater
12-12-2007, 02:40 AM
It was agonizing for me. I felt very strongly that the outcome was going to be exactly what it was.

sometimes I hate being me.

Sometimes, who could blame ya?

:D

Guru
12-12-2007, 02:41 AM
Sometimes, who could blame ya?

:D

True. Chiefster has that affect on people.

prough91
12-12-2007, 02:46 AM
It was agonizing for me. I felt very strongly that the outcome was going to be exactly what it was.

sometimes I hate being me.

I didn't like the outcome, but the game was very entertaining. Better than getting our a$$es handed to us.

Guru
12-12-2007, 02:51 AM
I didn't like the outcome, but the game was very entertaining. Better than getting our a$ handed to us.
I won't argue with that at all. We did, at least, have a chance in that game.

More than I can say for this years team.

DrunkHillbilly
12-12-2007, 09:45 AM
They're are 19 teams that gave up more points then we have. The D started out really solid at the beginning of the year, but I think they just wore down as the year went on. I'd find it hard to get up for a game every week if I knew the offense was just going to piss it away.
Hmmmm, I may have to research this. If this is in fact true. Most of those teams have passed us in the last 2 weeks or so.

wolfpack
12-12-2007, 11:37 AM
i listened to petro and holthus monday. they both blamed the drafting of dickie. but they started with bad draft form 2001. they went on saying how all drafts traded away was for short term chances to win. they said bashing herm wasnt cool and it wasnt his fault.
in away they were right about the trading draft picks for vermel,green,roaf,ect,,,,, but all draft tradings or picks GO THROUGH THE QUEEN FIRST. of coarse they weren`t going to dewell on this. the PR department of the chiefs is working hard hide this fact. not once did they say anything about play calling,calling stupid timeouts ect.

DrunkHillbilly
12-12-2007, 11:48 AM
They're are 19 teams that gave up more points then we have. The D started out really solid at the beginning of the year, but I think they just wore down as the year went on. I'd find it hard to get up for a game every week if I knew the offense was just going to piss it away.
Just as I suspected, there are only 17 teams that have been scored on more than us and 2 of them are within 5 points. Bottom line is we let too many big plays downfield happen giving them short yardage.

prough91
12-12-2007, 01:52 PM
Just as I suspected, there are only 17 teams that have been scored on more than us and 2 of them are within 5 points. Bottom line is we let too many big plays downfield happen giving them short yardage.

Where'd you find that? I found mine on NFL.com

DrunkHillbilly
12-12-2007, 09:34 PM
Where'd you find that? I found mine on NFL.com
I will try and post it. I tried once and it had so much computer garb that it would not allow me to post it. Too many characters.

hermhater
12-12-2007, 10:14 PM
I will try and post it. I tried once and it had so much computer garb that it would not allow me to post it. Too many characters.


Just copy and paste the address. That should work...

tornadospotter
12-12-2007, 10:21 PM
Glad someone can find redeeming qualities in Vermeil's tenure. I view it as a disappointment.


Why is that?

It's not Vermeils fault Peyton is a stud.

I didn't like the poor defense, but EVERY game was fun to watch, TG got most of his stats during those years, and Dicky is just such a nice crying guy


As was shown last year, many other teams had the same problem. Namely ALL of them.

Indy won the big game, and they deserved it. They were the best team.

I know our D sucked then, but I believe the team that scores the most points will win the game now days.

And it just so happens that now days it takes over 30 points to win most games.

The days of the Dominant D are over.

Get a clue HERM!!!!


i listened to petro and holthus monday. they both blamed the drafting of dickie. but they started with bad draft form 2001. they went on saying how all drafts traded away was for short term chances to win. they said bashing herm wasnt cool and it wasnt his fault.
in away they were right about the trading draft picks for vermel,green,roaf,ect,,,,, but all draft tradings or picks GO THROUGH THE QUEEN FIRST. of coarse they weren`t going to dewell on this. the PR department of the chiefs is working hard hide this fact. not once did they say anything about play calling,calling stupid timeouts ect.
So if it is Herms fault for this team? I was not a member of the Crowd, until this season, but I have been a fan of the Chiefs forever, I will admit I liked the Offensive scoring team under DV, but he was trying to win know, and not preparing for the future, so who is responsible for longterm team success, who looks season to season, and winning in that season? Who is responsibly for long term success, of the team? Who should be preparing for retirements of players? Who? If the head coach is responsible for the long term future of the team. Then DV screwed up this teams future, for a short window of chance to win, and cp let it happen!