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DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 09:50 AM
Another two crucial INT's!!!! Man this kid has a future!!

anaeelbackwards
12-17-2007, 09:52 AM
Another two crucial INT's!!!! Man this kid has a future!!

in a game where it really didn't matter.

yes a moral win, something to end the home season, but really in the end didn't matter.


no playoffs, still under .500

next year he'll be good.

prough91
12-17-2007, 09:54 AM
Another two crucial INT's!!!! Man this kid has a future!!

Remember how many int's Green had his first year here?

Canada
12-17-2007, 10:48 AM
Another two crucial INT's!!!! Man this kid has a future!!

Lemme know when you find the QB who dosen't throw INTs. I would love to have him too!! Too bad Brodie didn't throw any TD's either. He's never going to be good!! :bananen_smilies046:

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 12:57 PM
Lemme know when you find the QB who dosen't throw INTs. I would love to have him too!! Too bad Brodie didn't throw any TD's either. He's never going to be good!! :bananen_smilies046:

How about the guy that was the backup in Jacksonville for 3 years? Garrard. He's got 2 for the season! Garcia??? Not bad either. Both have played over twice as many games as Croyle.

Say what you want, Croyle won't take us anywhere! Your sarcasm is awesome!! BTW, are you still holding out hope?

prough91
12-17-2007, 01:23 PM
How about the guy that was the backup in Jacksonville for 3 years? Garrard. He's got 2 for the season! Garcia??? Not bad either. Both have played over twice as many games as Croyle.

Say what you want, Croyle won't take us anywhere! Your sarcasm is awesome!! BTW, are you still holding out hope?

You're comparing apples to oranges. You're talking about Garrard and Garcia that have both been in the league for quite a few years and comparing them to a kid that has made a total of 5 starts in the NFL and trying to perform behind one of the worse offensive lines in football. Right now, projected over 16 games Croyle would have 11tds and 11 ints. Peyton Manning had 26 tds and 28 int his first full year starting. Favre had 18 td and 13 int his first year. John Elway had 7 tds and 14 int his first year. I'm not saying Croyle is going to be some kind of football god, but I think it might be a little early to judge him until he get's a little better o-line. I'm a little encouraged watching him. He's still making mistakes, but he's not making the same ones over and over. He's young yet and still thinks he has to do everything himself.

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 01:41 PM
You're comparing apples to oranges. You're talking about Garrard and Garcia that have both been in the league for quite a few years and comparing them to a kid that has made a total of 5 starts in the NFL and trying to perform behind one of the worse offensive lines in football. Right now, projected over 16 games Croyle would have 11tds and 11 ints. Peyton Manning had 26 tds and 28 int his first full year starting. Favre had 18 td and 13 int his first year. John Elway had 7 tds and 14 int his first year. I'm not saying Croyle is going to be some kind of football god, but I think it might be a little early to judge him until he get's a little better o-line. I'm a little encouraged watching him. He's still making mistakes, but he's not making the same ones over and over. He's young yet and still thinks he has to do everything himself.
My point is that both Garrard and Garcia were available to be picked up or traded for in the off season. Once again, we did nothing in free agency. We decided to put our teams hopes on the shoulders Damon Huard?????? Yea, he came in and did well when the starter went down but to count on him as your starter going into a new season? With a rookie as a backup and no 3rd stringer?? Come on! Garrard and Garcia are both taking their respective teams to places not many people expected them to be. I agree he is young but I was not a fan of drafting him when we did and as you can see, I am still not a fan of his now. I hear people talking about his "strong arm", well, I think Favre has shown us that a strong arm doesn't mean accurate passing! I do think it is funny how you just compared Croyle to 3 of the best all time QB's though! My guess is that we will be looking for another QB in a few years.

prough91
12-17-2007, 01:44 PM
I agree he is young but I was not a fan of drafting him when we did and as you can see, I am still not a fan of his now. I hear people talking about his "strong arm", well, I think Favre has shown us that a strong arm doesn't mean accurate passing! I do think it is funny how you just compared Croyle to 3 of the best all time QB's though! My guess is that we will be looking for another QB in a few years.

I did that to show you can't tell how good a QB will be necessarily just by looking at their first year. He might stink. I might be calling for his release after next year. I'm just not going to judge a QB behind our line. Also, didn't Favre just break some kind of passing record or something?

m0ef0e
12-17-2007, 02:36 PM
I did that to show you can't tell how good a QB will be necessarily just by looking at their first year. He might stink. I might be calling for his release after next year. I'm just not going to judge a QB behind our line. Also, didn't Favre just break some kind of passing record or something?

Favre has just about every passing record there is now-- excluding the single-season marks that Brady has been shattering this year. Favre passed Dan Marino as the all-time leader in passing yards yesterday. He also has more TD's (and more INT's) than any other QB in NFL history.

prough91
12-17-2007, 02:39 PM
Favre has just about every passing record there is now-- excluding the single-season marks that Brady has been shattering this year. Favre passed Dan Marino as the all-time leader in passing yards yesterday. He also has more TD's (and more INT's) than any other QB in NFL history.

I know, hillbilly said something about having a strong arm doesn't mean you're necessarily an accurate passer and I was being sarcastic.

m0ef0e
12-17-2007, 02:41 PM
I know, hillbilly said something about having a strong arm doesn't mean you're necessarily an accurate passer and I was being sarcastic.

I see. I was just reiterating the fact that Favre is the bestest, most-awesomest QB of ALL TIME!!!

prough91
12-17-2007, 02:41 PM
I see. I was just reiterating the fact that Favre is the bestest, most-awesomest QB of ALL TIME!!!

Unless he's playing the Chiefs, he's my favorite player to watch.

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 02:42 PM
I did that to show you can't tell how good a QB will be necessarily just by looking at their first year. He might stink. I might be calling for his release after next year. I'm just not going to judge a QB behind our line. Also, didn't Favre just break some kind of passing record or something?
Yea.....along with becoming the ALL TIME LEADER in INT's. Strong arm equals trying to do too much. 20 years in the league equals breaking a lot of records!

prough91
12-17-2007, 02:43 PM
Yea.....along with becoming the ALL TIME LEADER in INT's. Strong arm equals trying to do too much. 20 years in the league equals breaking a lot of records!

Pbbbtttt.

m0ef0e
12-17-2007, 02:45 PM
Yea.....along with becoming the ALL TIME LEADER in INT's. Strong arm equals trying to do too much. 20 years in the league equals breaking a lot of records!

20 years in the NFL also = BADASS

prough91
12-17-2007, 02:47 PM
20 years in the NFL also = BADASS

He could have played for the Chiefs the last twenty years and I wouldn't have complained. I would have watched daring playmaking and two Super Bowl appearances, not to mention the win.

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 02:47 PM
20 years in the NFL also = BADASS
Don't be confused. I love this guy!!! I hope he wins again! I think you get my point. Strong arm doesn't mean great! As in Croyle's case.

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 02:48 PM
He could have played for the Chiefs the last twenty years and I wouldn't have complained. I would have watched daring playmaking and two Super Bowl appearances, not to mention the win.
Your not serious are you?? We don't get those type of players here!! Carl Peterson is a repelent to that kind of stuff!!!

m0ef0e
12-17-2007, 02:49 PM
Don't be confused. I love this guy!!! I hope he wins again! I think you get my point. Strong arm doesn't mean great! As in Croyle's case.

I do agree with you. There have been plenty of QB's with strong arms that could bomb it 60 yards in the air but couldn't hit optimus prime or godzilla 5 yards out in the flat.

prough91
12-17-2007, 02:49 PM
Your not serious are you?? We don't get those type of players here!! Carl Peterson is a repelent to that kind of stuff!!!

I agree, but I don't think I've ever seen a QB play the way Favre does.

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 02:50 PM
I do agree with you. There have been plenty of QB's with strong arms that could bomb it 60 yards in the air but couldn't hit optimus prime or godzilla 5 yards out in the flat.
LOL!!!:yahoo:

nigeriannightmare
12-17-2007, 04:14 PM
Another two crucial INT's!!!! Man this kid has a future!!

He showed mobility, has good poise in the pocket, he'll learn with time. Until there's an o-line, and good special teams you can't judge him on this season at all,.

PawnshopMarimba
12-17-2007, 04:28 PM
Brodie's going to be fine. The more I see of him now, the more I'm convinced that he could, actually, be VERY good. His arm is, dare I say, Favre-like, and his poise in the pocket has improved 100% from the pre-season. Give the kid a chance before ya dump on him.

prough91
12-17-2007, 04:29 PM
Brodie's going to be fine. The more I see of him now, the more I'm convinced that he could, actually, be VERY good. His arm is, dare I say, Favre-like, and his poise in the pocket has improved 100% from the pre-season. Give the kid a chance before ya dump on him.

Preaching to the choir.

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 04:58 PM
Preaching to the choir.
I'm assuming you, pawnshop and the nightmare thought we were going to be decent this year too.

prough91
12-17-2007, 05:24 PM
I'm assuming you, pawnshop and the nightmare thought we were going to be decent this year too.

You know what happens when you assume?

timsatt1
12-17-2007, 06:18 PM
hillbilly why are you so irrate that some of us here...or should i say everyone on this message forumn except you likes brody croyle?

it is one thing to disagree, it is another thing to get mad that we disagree with you HAHAHAHAHAHAAH. Settle down, take a chill pill.

he isnt as bad as you want him to be.

in fact....GASP....he might even become a good nfl quarterback!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH NO!!!!!!!!!!

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 07:22 PM
hillbilly why are you so irrate that some of us here...or should i say everyone on this message forumn except you likes brody croyle?

it is one thing to disagree, it is another thing to get mad that we disagree with you HAHAHAHAHAHAAH. Settle down, take a chill pill.

he isnt as bad as you want him to be.

in fact....GASP....he might even become a good nfl quarterback!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH NO!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously you can't determine one's mood or decifer tone over the computer. I'm not mad at all. On the contrary actually. This is how I expected things to go! Look back at posts before the season began. I said I didn't like Croyle then too! Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I'm just voicing mine. I'm not cheering for Croyle to be bad, it's just how it is. He's certainly not as good as you want him to be! Without those two INT's yesterday, we had a chance at winning that game. They were silly throws! Like I said, strong arms lead you to doing things you shouldn't a lot of times. Ask Favre.

timsatt1
12-17-2007, 07:27 PM
Obviously you can't determine one's mood or decifer tone over the computer. I'm not mad at all. On the contrary actually. This is how I expected things to go! Look back at posts before the season began. I said I didn't like Croyle then too! Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I'm just voicing mine. I'm not cheering for Croyle to be bad, it's just how it is. He's certainly not as good as you want him to be! Without those two INT's yesterday, we had a chance at winning that game. They were silly throws! Like I said, strong arms lead you to doing things you shouldn't a lot of times. Ask Favre.

ok fair enough.

DrunkHillbilly
12-17-2007, 07:38 PM
You know what happens when you assume?
Right again huh??

mxpxHERO
12-18-2007, 01:12 AM
i think i heard during a game once that if all our qb's went down (huard, croyle, thigpen) our emergency qb was eddie kennison. im not sure if i heard right but i coulda sworn that was what was being said.

timsatt1
12-18-2007, 01:15 AM
i think i heard during a game once that if all our qb's went down (huard, croyle, thigpen) our emergency qb was eddie kennison. im not sure if i heard right but i coulda sworn that was what was being said.


that is correct. I heard the same thing on the cbs telecast. wasnt this game though, i think they said that during the denver game when huard started.

greg3564
12-18-2007, 01:57 AM
He's certainly not as good as you want him to be! Without those two INT's yesterday, we had a chance at winning that game. They were silly throws!

Well, he's only a few games into his starting career. He's has a terrible line protecting him, so he might just feel a little pressure to get rid of the ball. He's still way better than anything Huard can give the Chiefs.

Most glaring is the sad *** defense that fails to show up in the second half of every game! I'm more inclined to give the second year QB a break over Law and Surtain, who have a combined 23 seasons of experience.

Hayvern
12-18-2007, 02:00 AM
I'm just not going to judge a QB behind our line.

Here here, we don't have ay idea how good Croyle was. Huard came in last year and did an outstanding job with a better line, he came in this year and could get nothing done. Not a lot changed with Huard, other than another year being coached by Edwards, and the stripping down of the O-line.

I would really like to see Croyle behind an offensive line that could give him a couple more nano-seconds to allow the receivers to get a little more open. Right now, these guys cannot possibly do anything deep as Croyle is rushed on every play.

I say we fire the coach, but give the kid a chance.

Hayvern
12-18-2007, 02:02 AM
i think i heard during a game once that if all our qb's went down (huard, croyle, thigpen) our emergency qb was eddie kennison. im not sure if i heard right but i coulda sworn that was what was being said.

Yeah you heard that, I even heard Herm talking about it a press conference one day.

mxpxHERO
12-18-2007, 02:06 AM
Here here, we don't have ay idea how good Croyle was. Huard came in last year and did an outstanding job with a better line, he came in this year and could get nothing done. Not a lot changed with Huard, other than another year being coached by Edwards, and the stripping down of the O-line.

I would really like to see Croyle behind an offensive line that could give him a couple more nano-seconds to allow the receivers to get a little more open. Right now, these guys cannot possibly do anything deep as Croyle is rushed on every play.

I say we fire the coach, but give the kid a chance.

Like to see it happen, but won't happen. Good Ol' Herm will lead his sermon into the 2008 season. :drunkhb:
hopefully in the draft and in the off-season we re-vamp that o-line and do some decent things. Maybe Croyle could get more nano-seconds in the pocket and have some decent protection.

Chiefster
12-18-2007, 02:12 AM
Like to see it happen, but won't happen. Good Ol' Herm will lead his sermon into the 2008 season. :drunkhb:
hopefully in the draft and in the off-season we re-vamp that o-line and do some decent things. Maybe Croyle could get more nano-seconds in the pocket and have some decent protection.

I think that's probably the best we can hope for.

luv
12-18-2007, 03:40 AM
How many INT's did Trent Green throw in his umpteenth year? Complaining over two? C'mon.

Guru
12-18-2007, 03:45 AM
How about the guy that was the backup in Jacksonville for 3 years? Garrard. He's got 2 for the season! Garcia??? Not bad either. Both have played over twice as many games as Croyle.

Say what you want, Croyle won't take us anywhere! Your sarcasm is awesome!! BTW, are you still holding out hope?
Carl loves fans like you. Band-aid. Don't build.

Chiefster
12-18-2007, 03:46 AM
How many INT's did Trent Green throw in his umpteenth year? Complaining over two? C'mon.


It earned him the nickname trINT.

Guru
12-18-2007, 03:48 AM
My point is that both Garrard and Garcia were available to be picked up or traded for in the off season. Once again, we did nothing in free agency. We decided to put our teams hopes on the shoulders Damon Huard?????? Yea, he came in and did well when the starter went down but to count on him as your starter going into a new season? With a rookie as a backup and no 3rd stringer?? Come on! Garrard and Garcia are both taking their respective teams to places not many people expected them to be. I agree he is young but I was not a fan of drafting him when we did and as you can see, I am still not a fan of his now. I hear people talking about his "strong arm", well, I think Favre has shown us that a strong arm doesn't mean accurate passing! I do think it is funny how you just compared Croyle to 3 of the best all time QB's though! My guess is that we will be looking for another QB in a few years.

Croyle is NOT a rookie this year. How come everybody forgets this? He has carried the clipboard for a year and a half. Any more than that and he is a wasted draft pick.

Guru
12-18-2007, 03:51 AM
It earned him the nickname trINT.
I gave JW the idea for that nickname.. I sent 810, at the time, an email using Tr-INT for his name like 5 times. This was in Trent's first year. I was very unhappy with him. I know better now.

I will never get credit for it but still.....

Chiefster
12-18-2007, 03:53 AM
I gave JW the idea for that nickname.. I sent 810, at the time, an email using Tr-INT for his name like 5 times. This was in Trent's first year. I was very unhappy with him. I know better now.

I will never get credit for it but still.....

We'll give you credit for it here, FWIW! :D

greg3564
12-18-2007, 11:27 AM
My point is that both Garrard and Garcia were available to be picked up or traded for in the off season. Garrard and Garcia are both taking their respective teams to places not many people expected them to be.

Jeff Garcia? Seriously? :lol: The guy would fit right in with the Chiefs mentality of bringing in QBs in the waning moments of the careers. I can't believe Garcia would even be mentioned. The guy is 37 years old! He also has a decent coach and a line to protect him, and WR's to throw to that can actually hold onto a catch!

Garrard is doing well, but he has a team of WRs to work with and a line that works for him. He's also going to be 30 in Feb and is another example of why he shouldn't have been brought in. If he stays healthy he'll probably play three more years of good football. So that doesn't really help us long term.

We need a young QB that we can develop into a franchise player. The days of bringing in old washed up QBs, or any other player for that matter, to play two or three seasons is over. That mentality, thanks in no small part to Carl Peterson, has led us to the horrible situation we're in right now.

Like it or not, Croyle is our QB for the future. Even the great QB's like Elway, Favre, Marino and Manning all had rough starts in the NFL. Even Vince Young has struggled. It's a tough game and completely different from college and there is a big learning curve that can only be overcome with time.

This team is not going to see a serious playoff run for several years. So why spend a lot of money to bring in talent for one position? The whole team needs to be re-worked and that is going to take time and some good drafting. A lot of the older players will be jettisoned. I expect Dunn, Wiegman, Law, Surtain, Turley, Bell, Drummond, Carney and even Huard to be gone this off season.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 11:34 AM
How many INT's did Trent Green throw in his umpteenth year? Complaining over two? C'mon.
This is funny!!! Your comparing Croyle to Green??? Showin me a lot now luv!!

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 11:35 AM
Carl loves fans like you. Band-aid. Don't build.
I never said don't fix it. Those band aids you speak of are working fairly well I would say in Tampa and J-Ville don't ya think???

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 11:37 AM
Croyle is NOT a rookie this year. How come everybody forgets this? He has carried the clipboard for a year and a half. Any more than that and he is a wasted draft pick.
We all know this!!!! I am speaking in playing terms.

Canada
12-18-2007, 11:43 AM
I never said don't fix it. Those band aids you speak of are working fairly well I would say in Tampa and J-Ville don't ya think???

So u assume that they would play well in KC??

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 11:43 AM
Jeff Garcia? Seriously? :lol: The guy would fit right in with the Chiefs mentality of bringing in QBs in the waning moments of the careers. I can't believe Garcia would even be mentioned. The guy is 37 years old! He also has a decent coach and a line to protect him, and WR's to throw to that can actually hold onto a catch!

Garrard is doing well, but he has a team of WRs to work with and a line that works for him. He's also going to be 30 in Feb and is another example of why he shouldn't have been brought in. If he stays healthy he'll probably play three more years of good football. So that doesn't really help us long term.

We need a young QB that we can develop into a franchise player. The days of bringing in old washed up QBs, or any other player for that matter, to play two or three seasons is over. That mentality, thanks in no small part to Carl Peterson, has led us to the horrible situation we're in right now.

Like it or not, Croyle is our QB for the future. Even the great QB's like Elway, Favre, Marino and Manning all had rough starts in the NFL. Even Vince Young has struggled. It's a tough game and completely different from college and there is a big learning curve that can only be overcome with time.

This team is not going to see a serious playoff run for several years. So why spend a lot of money to bring in talent for one position? The whole team needs to be re-worked and that is going to take time and some good drafting. A lot of the older players will be jettisoned. I expect Dunn, Wiegman, Law, Surtain, Turley, Bell, Drummond, Carney and even Huard to be gone this off season.
You can't be serious with this post!! How did Garcia do with the Eagles??? Tampa??? I don't want him as our franchise but if we are going to have a below avg QB playing, we can atleast give him somebody who knows what the hell is going on right there with him!! As far as Garrard goes, I would have traded for him 2 fricken years ago. This kid is good!!! 2 or 3 INT's on the year!!!! He's mobile and accurate!! C 'mon, he would be a 100% upgrade from Croyle!!

Canada
12-18-2007, 11:45 AM
You can't be serious with this post!! How did Garcia do with the Eagles??? Tampa??? I don't want him as our franchise but if we are going to have a below avg QB playing, we can atleast give him somebody who knows what the hell is going on right there with him!! As far as Garrard goes, I would have traded for him 2 fricken years ago. This kid is good!!! 2 or 3 INT's on the year!!!! He's mobile and accurate!! C 'mon, he would be a 100% upgrade from Croyle!!

U do realize that they hardly ever throw the ball right?

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 11:46 AM
So u assume that they would play well in KC??
Head and shoulders above what Croyle or Huard did!! Yes, ALL would struggle behind our line but they are both mobile and can throw with accuracy on the run. Something neither of our QB's can do.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 11:46 AM
U do realize that they hardly ever throw the ball right?
Maybe it's because of who is doing the throwing!!

Canada
12-18-2007, 11:47 AM
Maybe it's because of who is doing the throwing!!

Garrard.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 11:54 AM
Garrard.
If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league.

greg3564
12-18-2007, 11:57 AM
I never said don't fix it. Those band aids you speak of are working fairly well I would say in Tampa and J-Ville don't ya think???

Actually, Garcia has not done a whole lot better in TB. Their running game is what is doing the winning. With the exception of all the sacks we've had, TB's passing number are very similar to ours.

TB's total defense is ranked 3 and the Chiefs 15.
TB's total offense is ranked 19 and the Chiefs 31.
TB's running is ranked 10 and the Chiefs 30.
TB's passing is ranked 19 and the Chiefs 23.

So the QB difference is negligible. TB has a line that can allow their RB to get through. Their defense is capable of playing an entire game and not one half like the Chiefs.

greg3564
12-18-2007, 12:05 PM
If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league.

More myth debunking.

JAC total defense is ranked 14 and the Chiefs 15.
JAC total offense is ranked 9 and Chiefs 31.
JAC running is ranked 2 and the Chiefs 30.
JAC passing is ranked 18 and the Chiefs 23.

So once again, they too have a line that can open holes for a RB and give their QB time. Something we don't have. You could put out Payton Manning, Brett Favre, Jown Elway or whoever, but they would accomplish nothing but INT's and sacks. The numbers don't lie.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:07 PM
Actually, Garcia has not done a whole lot better in TB. Their running game is what is doing the winning. With the exception of all the sacks we've had, TB's passing number are very similar to ours.

TB's total defense is ranked 3 and the Chiefs 15.
TB's total offense is ranked 19 and the Chiefs 31.
TB's running is ranked 10 and the Chiefs 30.
TB's passing is ranked 19 and the Chiefs 23.

So the QB difference is negligible. TB has a line that can allow their RB to get through. Their defense is capable of playing an entire game and not one half like the Chiefs.
Negligible?????

Huard..INT's, 13 QB rating...72.6...26th
Croyle..INT's 5 QB rating...71.7...????

Garcia...INT's 2 QB rating...93.6...7th
Garrard...INT's 2 QB rating...101.6...2nd

BTW, their running game isn't what's winning them games, it's their defense that only allows 15 points per game. Tied for 1st with New England.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:09 PM
More myth debunking.

JAC total defense is ranked 14 and the Chiefs 15.
JAC total offense is ranked 9 and Chiefs 31.
JAC running is ranked 2 and the Chiefs 30.
JAC passing is ranked 18 and the Chiefs 23.

So once again, they too have a line that can open holes for a RB and give their QB time. Something we don't have. You could put out Payton Manning, Brett Favre, Jown Elway or whoever, but they would accomplish nothing but INT's and sacks. The numbers don't lie.
Your myth is debunked!!! Elway and Manning are both statues in the pocket!! Why didn't you mix in Bledsoe and Testeverde??

greg3564
12-18-2007, 12:18 PM
Negligible?????

Huard..INT's, 13 QB rating...72.6...26th
Croyle..INT's 5 QB rating...71.7...????

Garcia...INT's 2 QB rating...93.6...7th
Garrard...INT's 2 QB rating...101.6...2nd

BTW, their running game isn't what's winning them games, it's their defense that only allows 15 points per game. Tied for 1st with New England.


Well, which is it? Garcia or the D? I'm sure the fourth ranked team in scoring rushing TDs has something to do with winning. Unless you are Herm in disguise, defenses really do not win football games. They help, but you have to put up points.

greg3564
12-18-2007, 12:22 PM
Your myth is debunked!!! Elway and Manning are both statues in the pocket!! Why didn't you mix in Bledsoe and Testeverde??

Yeah, you're right, that's why Elway and Manning have always killed us on their bootleg roll outs. They may not be Vince Young, but they also don't just sit and take sacks either. Come on!

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Yeah, you're right, that's why Elway and Manning have always killed us on their bootleg roll outs. They may not be Vince Young, but they also don't just sit and take sacks either. Come on!
This is funny!!!!!!!! Now your calling two of the most immobile QB's in history threats to run!!! You better ask some friends or watch some games or something because anyone will tell you they are immobile QB's!!!

prough91
12-18-2007, 12:32 PM
If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league.

Again, you quote statistics without checking the facts. Jacsonville is 28th in the league on passing attempts per game with 28 a game. Kansas City is 16th. Now, you're showing your lack of knowledge.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:33 PM
Well, which is it? Garcia or the D? I'm sure the fourth ranked team in scoring rushing TDs has something to do with winning. Unless you are Herm in disguise, defenses really do not win football games. They help, but you have to put up points.
Uhhhh, 2 INT's don't help???? Obviously the D is working!!! What's that old saying? Old as in about, well, since football started. Defense wins championships. It's beginning to go taward an offensive minded game but D still rules the game. Plus/minus ratio in TO's is still one of the if not the most important stat in the game! Along with 3rd down conversion percentage I might add.

greg3564
12-18-2007, 12:34 PM
This is funny!!!!!!!! Now your calling two of the most immobile QB's in history threats to run!!! You better ask some friends or watch some games or something because anyone will tell you they are immobile QB's!!!

Whatever dude. What' funny is you had no rebuttal and the best thing you could come up with is to point out the QBs I said would suffer behind our line. :iamwithstupid:

prough91
12-18-2007, 12:37 PM
Whatever dude. What' funny is you had no rebuttal and the best thing you could come up with is to point out the QBs I said would suffer behind our line. :iamwithstupid:

Maybe we need to talk to soberhillbilly.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:38 PM
Whatever dude. What' funny is you had no rebuttal and the best thing you could come up with is to point out the QBs I said would suffer behind our line. :iamwithstupid:
Next your gonna tell me Colt McCoy is great!!

prough91
12-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Next your gonna tell me Colt McCoy is great!!

Who the hell is that?

greg3564
12-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Uhhhh, 2 INT's don't help???? Obviously the D is working!!! What's that old saying? Old as in about, well, since football started. Defense wins championships. It's beginning to go taward an offensive minded game but D still rules the game. Plus/minus ratio in TO's is still one of the if not the most important stat in the game! Along with 3rd down conversion percentage I might add.

No, well rounded football teams win championships. You have to have the full package and not just one component. Under your logic, how did the Rams win? That team has nothing but offense with a average defense. If your offense can't score, then you can't defend a lead.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:43 PM
Whatever dude. What' funny is you had no rebuttal and the best thing you could come up with is to point out the QBs I said would suffer behind our line. :iamwithstupid:
17David Garrard (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidgarrard/profile?id=GAR371604) JAC (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC) QB 197 307 64.2 27.9 2,310 7.5 210.0 16 2 117 38.1 59T 31 4 20 101.6 18Jeff Garcia (http://www.nfl.com/players/jeffgarcia/profile?id=GAR101861) TB (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tampabaybuccaneers/profile?team=TB) QB 197 307 64.2 25.6 2,244 7.3 187.0 12 4 103 33.6 69T 23 8 17 93.6

greg3564
12-18-2007, 12:43 PM
Next your gonna tell me Colt McCoy is great!!

Off topic and now you're reaching and looking desperate. Funny! But no, McCoy is not yet. But this little known guy by the name of Vince Young was a pretty good, underrated QB from Texas too.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:44 PM
No, well rounded football teams win championships. You have to have the full package and not just one component. Under your logic, how did the Rams win? That team has nothing but offense with a average defense. If your offense can't score, then you can't defend a lead.
Understood. So why do you think this saying has been around for so long??? Still is I might add.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 12:46 PM
Off topic and now you're reaching and looking desperate. Funny! But no, McCoy is not yet. But this little known guy by the name of Vince Young was a pretty good, underrated QB from Texas too.
Nope! Big fan of Young at Texas as I am A Longhorn fan too!!! How's that make ya feel!!!!?????

greg3564
12-18-2007, 12:57 PM
17David Garrard (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidgarrard/profile?id=GAR371604) JAC (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC) QB 197 307 64.2 27.9 2,310 7.5 210.0 16 2 117 38.1 59T 31 4 20 101.6 18Jeff Garcia (http://www.nfl.com/players/jeffgarcia/profile?id=GAR101861) TB (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tampabaybuccaneers/profile?team=TB) QB 197 307 64.2 25.6 2,244 7.3 187.0 12 4 103 33.6 69T 23 8 17 93.6

OK. This is the last one, as you just don't get it.

David Garrard is a decent QB. He also has the help of a 2nd ranked running game.

Jeff Garcia is average. He too is helped by a 10th ranked running game.

Croyle, and even Huard, have been working with a 30th ranked running game.

So what does that mean? That the O line at TB and JAC are leagues ahead of anything the Chiefs have! It would not matter who is at QB. If either of those two were here we may have a 5-9 record. Who hoo!!!!!! At Garcias age, he would have been hurt just like Huard was.

But the passing is very simialar and the numbers don't lie.

JAC 18
TB 19
KC 23

All pretty close, but the difference lies in being able to control the line and run the ball. The Chiefs can't do either. Then there is the fact the Chiefs have on WR and one TE that can catch. I don't know what you really expect of any QB that would dare to put on a Chiefs uniform this season. No one, I repeat no one, could do much with what the Chiefs have to offer offensively.

greg3564
12-18-2007, 01:03 PM
Nope! Big fan of Young at Texas as I am A Longhorn fan too!!! How's that make ya feel!!!!?????

I've not known many "fans" to bait other fans into a question like that. Makes me wonder how much of a "fan" you really are.:sign0153:

hermhater
12-18-2007, 01:18 PM
Uhhhh, 2 INT's don't help???? Obviously the D is working!!! What's that old saying? Old as in about, well, since football started. Defense wins championships. It's beginning to go taward an offensive minded game but D still rules the game. Plus/minus ratio in TO's is still one of the if not the most important stat in the game! Along with 3rd down conversion percentage I might add.

The most important stat in determining over 80% of football wins is yards completed per pass attempt.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 01:29 PM
The most important stat in determining over 80% of football wins is yards completed per pass attempt.
Croyle......5.0

hermhater
12-18-2007, 01:31 PM
Croyle......5.0

I was not sticking up for Croyle, or any other QB, just letting you know what wins games 80% of the time.

That stat is usually associated with having time in the pocket.

As I have said a few times in the last few weeks, I am doubting any talent that Herm has evaluated.

Brodie included.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 01:32 PM
OK. This is the last one, as you just don't get it.

David Garrard is a decent QB. He also has the help of a 2nd ranked running game.

Jeff Garcia is average. He too is helped by a 10th ranked running game.

Croyle, and even Huard, have been working with a 30th ranked running game.

So what does that mean? That the O line at TB and JAC are leagues ahead of anything the Chiefs have! It would not matter who is at QB. If either of those two were here we may have a 5-9 record. Who hoo!!!!!! At Garcias age, he would have been hurt just like Huard was.

But the passing is very simialar and the numbers don't lie.

JAC 18
TB 19
KC 23

All pretty close, but the difference lies in being able to control the line and run the ball. The Chiefs can't do either. Then there is the fact the Chiefs have on WR and one TE that can catch. I don't know what you really expect of any QB that would dare to put on a Chiefs uniform this season. No one, I repeat no one, could do much with what the Chiefs have to offer offensively.
I said this before. ALL would struggle but the ones we are mentioning IMO would be far better than Croyle! How about Brees that we passed on two years ago? Not even a look! Would he have been anywhere on your radar? Amazing numbers in New Orleans!

Chiefster
12-18-2007, 02:37 PM
Tastes great!

nigeriannightmare
12-18-2007, 04:39 PM
I'm assuming you, pawnshop and the nightmare thought we were going to be decent this year too.

Nah...Didn't think we would be this bad I had thought 7-9 before the season. How can we really know how good Croyle is with this offense. What other options do we have, picking up an aging McNabb, wasting draft picks to get a decent QB. Let's give the kid an offensive line and see what happens with LJ, D-Bowe, and TG next year. Lets not forget it's not like Croyle has had the best mentors giving him advice and knowledge.

Chiefster
12-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Nah...Didn't think we would be this bad I had thought 7-9 before the season. How can we really know how good Croyle is with this offense. What other options do we have, picking up an aging McNabb, wasting draft picks to get a decent QB. Let's give the kid an offensive line and see what happens with LJ, D-Bowe, and TG next year. Lets not forget it's not like Croyle has had the best mentors giving him advice and knowledge.

I read ya; I was predicting 8-8.

prough91
12-18-2007, 04:51 PM
I said this before. ALL would struggle but the ones we are mentioning IMO would be far better than Croyle! How about Brees that we passed on two years ago? Not even a look! Would he have been anywhere on your radar? Amazing numbers in New Orleans!

You give me one QB that has a crappy line like ours and is doing good, I'll quit arguing with you. Croyle has been sacked like 14 times in two games before last weeks games. That would make any QB a little gun shy, especially a young one. Only the Detroit Lions have allowed more sacks than the Chiefs and all the QBs you've mention, their teams are in the better half of sacks allowed and some are in the top ten.

Chiefster
12-18-2007, 04:58 PM
You give me one QB that has a crappy line like ours and is doing good, I'll quit arguing with you. Croyle has been sacked like 14 times in two games before last weeks games. That would make any QB a little gun shy, especially a young one. Only the Detroit Lions have allowed more sacks than the Chiefs and all the QBs you've mention, their teams are in the better half of sacks allowed and some are in the top ten.

I agree; Croyle needs time to continue to develop.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 05:08 PM
Nah...Didn't think we would be this bad I had thought 7-9 before the season. How can we really know how good Croyle is with this offense. What other options do we have, picking up an aging McNabb, wasting draft picks to get a decent QB. Let's give the kid an offensive line and see what happens with LJ, D-Bowe, and TG next year. Lets not forget it's not like Croyle has had the best mentors giving him advice and knowledge.
Part of my point! He needs someone to walk him through some things. Hence the veteran backup.

prough91
12-18-2007, 05:13 PM
Part of my point! He needs someone to walk him through some things. Hence the veteran backup.

Though it pains me considerably to agree with you, I do think they should have kept Green for just this reason.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k196/melasthanatos/Chiefscrowd/hillbilly.jpg

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 05:19 PM
You give me one QB that has a crappy line like ours and is doing good, I'll quit arguing with you. Croyle has been sacked like 14 times in two games before last weeks games. That would make any QB a little gun shy, especially a young one. Only the Detroit Lions have allowed more sacks than the Chiefs and all the QBs you've mention, their teams are in the better half of sacks allowed and some are in the top ten.
How about Rosenfels and Shaub? Texans.

Sacked over 20 times between the two

Both have over 65% completion ratings
Both have almost a 90 QB rating
Both have more TD's than INT's
Both over 7 yds per attempt
Over 3500 yds passing combined

You can't say any of this about Croyle or Huard or both of them combined.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 05:20 PM
Though it pains me considerably to agree with you, I do think they should have kept Green for just this reason.

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/
Howd you get my picture??? I'm really Ernest T. Bass!!!!!!

Chiefster
12-18-2007, 05:22 PM
Green wanted out though.

prough91
12-18-2007, 05:23 PM
How about Rosenfels and Shaub? Texans.

Sacked over 20 times between the two

Both have over 65% completion ratings
Both have almost a 90 QB rating
Both have more TD's than INT's
Both over 7 yds per attempt
Over 3500 yds passing combined

You can't say any of this about Croyle or Huard or both of them combined.

The chiefs have allowed 48 sacks. That's a hell of a lot more. I'd hate to confuse you with the math, but it's 2.28 times more. The Texans have allowed 21.

Coach
12-18-2007, 05:47 PM
Green wanted out though.

That worked out beautifully for him.:sign0098:

hermhater
12-18-2007, 05:50 PM
Trent wasn't the same after his concussion here in KC.

He should have bowed out with Vermiel.

Loved the guy, but he never should have stepped on the field again after that.

nigeriannightmare
12-18-2007, 06:48 PM
Part of my point! He needs someone to walk him through some things. Hence the veteran backup.

What veteran, you think Garcia, Scaub, Brees anybody would fare better under the offensive genius of Herm Edwards and Mike Solari, not mention the amazing coaching talent that is Dick Curl. Our Coaches might be the largest assembly of "Yes" men in the NFL.

prough91
12-18-2007, 06:51 PM
Trent wasn't the same after his concussion here in KC.

He should have bowed out with Vermiel.

Loved the guy, but he never should have stepped on the field again after that.

I think Trent would be an awesome QB coach.

Canada
12-18-2007, 06:54 PM
Maybe it's because of who is doing the throwing!!


Garrard.


If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league.


Again, you quote statistics without checking the facts. Jacsonville is 28th in the league on passing attempts per game with 28 a game. Kansas City is 16th. Now, you're showing your lack of knowledge.


hmmmm.....

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:16 PM
The chiefs have allowed 48 sacks. That's a hell of a lot more. I'd hate to confuse you with the math, but it's 2.28 times more. The Texans have allowed 21.
So does this mean their O line is awesome or they can get out of the pocket? Do you remember their O line from last year? Same one that almost got Carr killed. Different QB's. Weird!

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:18 PM
What veteran, you think Garcia, Scaub, Brees anybody would fare better under the offensive genius of Herm Edwards and Mike Solari, not mention the amazing coaching talent that is Dick Curl. Our Coaches might be the largest assembly of "Yes" men in the NFL.
Damon Huard sure as hell isn't going to show him anything!!!! Maybe we should only carry 1 QB and put Kennison in at backup!! They need a veteran backup!

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:19 PM
hmmmm.....
Look it up on NFL.com and then give me the hmmmmm. We were also talking about individual QB's not teams but it's still not right.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:20 PM
I think Trent would be an awesome QB coach.
I agree along with Kurt Warner.

prough91
12-18-2007, 07:21 PM
Look it up on NFL.com and then give me the hmmmmm. We were also talking about individual QB's not teams but it's still not right.

That's where I got the stats. Jacksonville is 28th in the NFL on passing attempts per game.

prough91
12-18-2007, 07:22 PM
So does this mean their O line is awesome or they can get out of the pocket? Do you remember their O line from last year? Same one that almost got Carr killed. Different QB's. Weird!

Are you sure it's the same, or are you just making statements again without checking the facts?

hermhater
12-18-2007, 07:24 PM
That's where I got the stats. Jacksonville is 28th in the NFL on passing attempts per game.

I would bet that their game against us helped them out in that category...

They ran all over us and didn't need to pass but a couple of times.

We need a big dude stuffing the wholes up front for us.

Our run D isn't much better than our run game!!!

:mob:

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:26 PM
That's where I got the stats. Jacksonville is 28th in the NFL on passing attempts per game.
Why are we talking about attempts? I was talking about individual stats for other QB's compared to Croyle! If you want to compare overall ranking they are about the middle of the road there too!

prough91
12-18-2007, 07:28 PM
So does this mean their O line is awesome or they can get out of the pocket? Do you remember their O line from last year? Same one that almost got Carr killed. Different QB's. Weird!

Hasn't Schaub been out a few weeks? The same AWESOME Schaub with 9 tds and 9 int?

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/

prough91
12-18-2007, 07:29 PM
Why are we talking about attempts? I was talking about individual stats for other QB's compared to Croyle! If you want to compare overall ranking they are about the middle of the road there too!

You said that Jacksonville were probably in the upper half on pass attempts and Garrard only had 2 ints.

prough91
12-18-2007, 07:30 PM
If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league.

See?

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:31 PM
Are you sure it's the same, or are you just making statements again without checking the facts?
The crux of it are the same. They had to make several changes throughout the year due to the fact that they have 17 guys on the IR. Most in the NFL.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:31 PM
You said that Jacksonville were probably in the upper half on pass attempts and Garrard only had 2 ints.
Show my quote where I said they were in the UPPER teir as a team in ATTEMPTS! Show my quote where I said they were in the upper teir of anything.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 07:33 PM
Hasn't Schaub been out a few weeks? The same AWESOME Schaub with 9 tds and 9 int?

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/
That's why I gave you stats on both of them. Just as I spoke of both Croyle and Huard.

nigeriannightmare
12-18-2007, 07:49 PM
Damon Huard sure as hell isn't going to show him anything!!!! Maybe we should only carry 1 QB and put Kennison in at backup!! They need a veteran backup!

Is it the players fault they are in the position that they are in, or is it that the coaches haven't not given this team a chance to win. You can throw statistics all day long about who does what, but at the end of the day it comes down to preparation and coaching. Outside of Gunther, and he's a question mark, our coaches have poor game plans that aren't executed well and to tell you the truth I don't think Herm has a clue how to run an offense. How can you not give Brodie a chance, the dude hasn't even started for a full season yet and it's only his second. Until next year I don't think any judgement can be passed on him. If you want to start comparing statisics let's start with Herm and all that he's done and go from there.

hermhater
12-18-2007, 07:57 PM
Is it the players fault they are in the position that they are in, or is it that the coaches haven't not given this team a chance to win. You can throw statistics all day long about who does what, but at the end of the day it comes down to preparation and coaching. Outside of Gunther, and he's a question mark, our coaches have poor game plans that aren't executed well and to tell you the truth I don't think Herm has a clue how to run an offense. How can you not give Brodie a chance, the dude hasn't even started for a full season yet and it's only his second. Until next year I don't think any judgement can be passed on him. If you want to start comparing statisics let's start with Herm and all that he's done and go from there.


He lost 5 QB's in his last year in NY.

So far he has injured every single QB on the Chiefs too.

I know Kennison pulled his hamstring on the first play from scrimmage this year, and he was the 3rd stringer after Huard, Broyle, and Thigpen got hurt.

I don't need any other stats than that.

Canada
12-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Show my quote where I said they were in the UPPER teir as a team in ATTEMPTS! Show my quote where I said they were in the upper teir of anything.

you said middle of the pack in pass attempts. 28th is not middle of the pack unless you mean that they are between 3rd and 29th. The point is the less you throw the ball, the less likely you are to throw a lot of INTs.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 08:48 PM
Is it the players fault they are in the position that they are in, or is it that the coaches haven't not given this team a chance to win. You can throw statistics all day long about who does what, but at the end of the day it comes down to preparation and coaching. Outside of Gunther, and he's a question mark, our coaches have poor game plans that aren't executed well and to tell you the truth I don't think Herm has a clue how to run an offense. How can you not give Brodie a chance, the dude hasn't even started for a full season yet and it's only his second. Until next year I don't think any judgement can be passed on him. If you want to start comparing statisics let's start with Herm and all that he's done and go from there.
Oh don't get me wrong bud! I am leading the bandwagon on getting CP outta town and right behind HH on getting rid of Herm! I just know what I see and I don't think Croyle is a QB that can put us over the edge that's all.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 08:49 PM
you said middle of the pack in pass attempts. 28th is not middle of the pack unless you mean that they are between 3rd and 29th. The point is the less you throw the ball, the less likely you are to throw a lot of INTs.
I still don't see the quote and won't because it's not there! Never did I mention ANYTHING about attempts in this thread!!!

In fact, If you go to nfl.com and pull up team stats and go to passing, they have J-Ville ranked #18! Sorry, I said 15. Wrong again!!

prough91
12-18-2007, 08:51 PM
If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league.

Here it is again for the third time.

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 08:58 PM
Here it is again for the third time.
Attempts???? Never saw it! Was it there? We were talking about passing. Not passing attempts! Thats why the stat is passing and within that stat they keep the attempts recorded along with everything else! Overall passing 18th. Still waiting for the attempts quote.

Canada
12-18-2007, 09:28 PM
Are you seriously missing that?? The whole point was that I said he had less picks because they threw the ball less and you came up with the quote "If you are talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you show your....blah blah" We were talking specifically about pass attempts. If you weren't talking about attempts the what the f$#k are you talking about?

prough91
12-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Attempts???? Never saw it! Was it there? We were talking about passing. Not passing attempts! Thats why the stat is passing and within that stat they keep the attempts recorded along with everything else! Overall passing 18th. Still waiting for the attempts quote.

Dude, you said "If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league." A throw of the ball is a pass attempt. They are 28th in the league in pass attempts. Therefore, they are 13 places lower than 15th in throwing the ball. Is anyone else having a hard time understanding this?

DrunkHillbilly
12-18-2007, 10:24 PM
Dude, you said "If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league." A throw of the ball is a pass attempt. They are 28th in the league in pass attempts. Therefore, they are 13 places lower than 15th in throwing the ball. Is anyone else having a hard time understanding this?
Throwing meaning passing. Passing meaning their entire passing game! Overall passing game. Why would anyone just point out attempts when we are talking about how good or bad a QB is? That is why I also posted QB rating, completion %, TD's ect....!!!!!

nigeriannightmare
12-18-2007, 11:02 PM
Dude, you said "If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league." A throw of the ball is a pass attempt. They are 28th in the league in pass attempts. Therefore, they are 13 places lower than 15th in throwing the ball. Is anyone else having a hard time understanding this?

I thought you guys were talking passing attempts meaning in how many times they throw the ball in the game.

timsatt1
12-18-2007, 11:35 PM
Throwing meaning passing. Passing meaning their entire passing game! Overall passing game. Why would anyone just point out attempts when we are talking about how good or bad a QB is? That is why I also posted QB rating, completion %, TD's ect....!!!!!


ok hillbilly, i see you meant how could jacksonville be 18th or whatever in passing if they are not throwing the ball much.

but the way you worded it, it looked as if you were talking about how many attempts they have...

...and we were thinking that the reason those qbs didnt have many interceptions is cause they havent been throwing it much...


ok i hope that clears things up a little.

hermhater
12-18-2007, 11:55 PM
I don't know what the arguing is all about.

What should be discussed is how many yards per pass attempt in a game.

That is what wins more than 80% of games in the NFL.

All these other stats you guys are arguing about are moot.

Who has the highest pass yards per attempt out there?

If you don't have time to throw the ball down the field you will win very few games.

Crap I can't figure out how we spent an entire friggin' day arguing over this.

timsatt1
12-19-2007, 12:00 AM
I don't know what the arguing is all about.

What should be discussed is how many yards per pass attempt in a game.

That is what wins more than 80% of games in the NFL.

All these other stats you guys are arguing about are moot.

Who has the highest pass yards per attempt out there?

If you don't have time to throw the ball down the field you will win very few games.

Crap I can't figure out how we spent an entire friggin' day arguing over this.

i think the real argument is should we really be comparing brodys stats already to anything? or should we give him some more games so his stats are actually "true sats" and not just "stats for his first 3 or so games"

i say it is way too early to even look at his stats...unless his stats were just GAWDAWFUL. but they are not GAWDAWFUL, they just are not good yet, which is ok.

hermhater
12-19-2007, 12:05 AM
Brodie should not be evaluated yet, I don't know what DH sees that he doesn't like (besides the interceptions) about him, but he has an opinion and gets to argue it just like all of us.

If Brodie turns out to be a bust, we won't know until Herm is gone.

All other arguments are irrelevant.

prough91
12-19-2007, 12:07 AM
I don't know what the arguing is all about.

What should be discussed is how many yards per pass attempt in a game.

That is what wins more than 80% of games in the NFL.

All these other stats you guys are arguing about are moot.

Who has the highest pass yards per attempt out there?

If you don't have time to throw the ball down the field you will win very few games.

Crap I can't figure out how we spent an entire friggin' day arguing over this.

I would think ypg would be a better precursor, wouldn't it? I would rather have a guy that threw 40 times for 400 yards a game than a guy that threw 20 times for 300, even though the second guy has a better yards per pass attempt. Does that make sense?

DrunkHillbilly
12-19-2007, 12:22 AM
i think the real argument is should we really be comparing brodys stats already to anything? or should we give him some more games so his stats are actually "true sats" and not just "stats for his first 3 or so games"

i say it is way too early to even look at his stats...unless his stats were just GAWDAWFUL. but they are not GAWDAWFUL, they just are not good yet, which is ok.
I think this thread clearly indicates that there are more people than just little ole me that like to argue!!!! I was just stating my opinion about how I didn't think Croyle would put us over the hump. I don't care how many games he has played! I said this the day they drafted him. I was at the lakehouse and it ruined my weekend up north when I was listening to the draft and listened to them announce Croyles name! My opinion that's it!!

hermhater
12-19-2007, 12:23 AM
I would think ypg would be a better precursor, wouldn't it? I would rather have a guy that threw 40 times for 400 yards a game than a guy that threw 20 times for 300, even though the second guy has a better yards per pass attempt. Does that make sense?

Nope sorry guy, it doesn't.

That means he had to throw too many times for too few yards.

Here is a quote from the October 2007 Playboy (yes they talk about football too):

"The most important stat in Football"

"We will give you a hint, it's not total yards, total yards passing, total yards rushing, or how many beers the quarterback downed the night before the game. The most important statistic for winning games in the NFL is yards per pass. Take the gross amount of yards gained in the air and divide by the number of throws. The result is the best simple indicator of offensive effectiveness ever measured. Try this at the office every Monday morning during football season: Have someone open the sports pages to the NFL box scores and without asking who won, or even the names of the teams, have him give you just two totals for each team-the number of yards gained passing and the number of throws.The team that averaged the most yards per throw will be the winner more than 80 percent of the time. That's how it has been for the past half century in pro football, from Johnny Unitas to Peyton Manning. Good teams alway finish in the top half fof the league in yards per throw; bad teams finish in the bottom half. Let's simplify this even more: In the most recent Super Bowl, the Indianapolis Colts, who averaged 7.9 yards per throw during the regular season (first in the AFC) played the Chicago Bears, who averaged 6.7 (eighth in the NFC). Forget the running game, defense and kicking game, and just remember the two teams yards per throw. The Colts, or course won 29-17. History says the Bears never had a chance"

"In 36 of 41 Super Bowls, the team with the higher yards per pass won the game, including last year's" Colts 6.5, Bears 5.9"


Argue that.

timsatt1
12-19-2007, 12:25 AM
I think this thread clearly indicates that there are more people than just little ole me that like to argue!!!! I was just stating my opinion about how I didn't think Croyle would put us over the hump. I don't care how many games he has played! I said this the day they drafted him. I was at the lakehouse and it ruined my weekend up north when I was listening to the draft and listened to them announce Croyles name! My opinion that's it!!


hey and i am not saying that your opinion is wrong!

you may very well be right!!

i hope he turns out to be better than expected though.

but i dont think anyone here is saying you are wrong about brody.

they tend to say more or less that you might be right, but most of us here on the board want to take a chance on him.

me personally, i want to see the chiefs finally try and mold a young qb instead of repeating history and picking up an old, end of career qb.

DrunkHillbilly
12-19-2007, 12:32 AM
hey and i am not saying that your opinion is wrong!

you may very well be right!!

i hope he turns out to be better than expected though.

but i dont think anyone here is saying you are wrong about brody.

they tend to say more or less that you might be right, but most of us here on the board want to take a chance on him.

me personally, i want to see the chiefs finally try and mold a young qb instead of repeating history and picking up an old, end of career qb.
I kind of feel the same about molding someone, just not him. There were far more pressing needs when he was drafted. There are a lot of teams that are having success these days with veterans that have been "successful" backups in the league. I'm not talking about the Huards of the league either. We didn't even give anyone a look. I just have a feeling we will end up like the Bears or someone who took a chance and are left with a barely serviceable QB like Grossman!

prough91
12-19-2007, 12:33 AM
Nope sorry guy, it doesn't.

That means he had to throw too many times for too few yards.

Here is a quote from the October 2007 Playboy (yes they talk about football too):

"The most important stat in Football"

"We will give you a hint, it's not total yards, total yards passing, total yards rushing, or how many beers the quarterback downed the night before the game. The most important statistic for winning games in the NFL is yards per pass. Take the gross amount of yards gained in the air and divide by the number of throws. The result is the best simple indicator of offensive effectiveness ever measured. Try this at the office every Monday morning during football season: Have someone open the sports pages to the NFL box scores and without asking who won, or even the names of the teams, have him give you just two totals for each team-the number of yards gained passing and the number of throws.The team that averaged the most yards per throw will be the winner more than 80 percent of the time. That's how it has been for the past half century in pro football, from Johnny Unitas to Peyton Manning. Good teams alway finish in the top half fof the league in yards per throw; bad teams finish in the bottom half. Let's simplify this even more: In the most recent Super Bowl, the Indianapolis Colts, who averaged 7.9 yards per throw during the regular season (first in the AFC) played the Chicago Bears, who averaged 6.7 (eighth in the NFC). Forget the running game, defense and kicking game, and just remember the two teams yards per throw. The Colts, or course won 29-17. History says the Bears never had a chance"

"In 36 of 41 Super Bowls, the team with the higher yards per pass won the game, including last year's" Colts 6.5, Bears 5.9"


Argue that.

You know I will. I agree that higher yards per pass attempt is a good thing, but which would you rather have a guy that throws 10 times for a hundred yards or 30 times for 300? What did the Playboy say about yards per game? I actually have a hard time believing you actually read anything in a Playboy.

:lol::beer:

DrunkHillbilly
12-19-2007, 12:35 AM
You know I will. I agree that higher yards per pass attempt is a good thing, but which would you rather have a guy that throws 10 times for a hundred yards or 30 times for 300? What did the Playboy say about yards per game? I actually have a hard time believing you actually read anything in a Playboy.

:lol::beer:
The guy that throws 30 times has a better chance of throwing more INT's that could go for TD's that would negate his yardage!! How's that!!

chief31
12-19-2007, 12:38 AM
This is funny!!!!!!!! Now your calling two of the most immobile QB's in history threats to run!!! You better ask some friends or watch some games or something because anyone will tell you they are immobile QB's!!!

Not a threat to run, but not as "immobile" as you are suggesting. Elway had a reputation for being a very mobile QB, and Manning appears to be immobile because he rarely has to move off of his spot. (Granted, Manning is far from a real mobile QB, but not, as you suggest, "one of the most immobile QBs in in history".



Dude, you said "If your talking about Jacksonville never throwing the ball, you showing your lack of knowledge. I bet they are in the middle of the pack. 15th or so in the league." A throw of the ball is a pass attempt. They are 28th in the league in pass attempts. Therefore, they are 13 places lower than 15th in throwing the ball. Is anyone else having a hard time understanding this?

My guy hillbilly has a certain unwillingness to admit even a minor error. This could take you days to get something from this. :D But it sure is fun to argue with him sometimes, ain't it?

prough91
12-19-2007, 12:38 AM
The guy that throws 30 times has a better chance of throwing more INT's that could go for TD's that would negate his yardage!! How's that!!

Or, dear pessimist, he could also throw for more touchdowns.

timsatt1
12-19-2007, 12:38 AM
You know I will. I agree that higher yards per pass attempt is a good thing, but which would you rather have a guy that throws 10 times for a hundred yards or 30 times for 300? What did the Playboy say about yards per game? I actually have a hard time believing you actually read anything in a Playboy.

:lol::beer:

this is the same guy that posts bare chested pictures of tony G...i am pretty sure herm actually buys the playboys strictly for the articles.

DrunkHillbilly
12-19-2007, 12:40 AM
Not a threat to run, but not as "immobile" as you are suggesting. Elway had a reputation for being a very mobile QB, and Manning appears to be immobile because he rarely has to move off of his spot. (Granted, Manning is far from a real mobile QB, but not, as you suggest, "one of the most immobile QBs in in history".




My guy hillbilly has a certain unwillingness to admit even a minor error. This could take you days to get something from this. :D But it sure is fun to argue with him sometimes, ain't it?
No error made! None at all.

DrunkHillbilly
12-19-2007, 12:40 AM
Or, dear pessimist, he could also throw for more touchdowns.
You are correct!

timsatt1
12-19-2007, 12:42 AM
Or, dear pessimist, he could also throw for more touchdowns.

HH is posting quiet a remarkable stat. it is the stat that has the highest percentage of wins out of ANY STATS TAKEN, including who has more total yards per game.

and hillbilly had great comment, if you are passing for more yards while passing less (which makes sense, if you pass for 100 yards, whether you did it in two plays or 6 plays...there is a greater chance you had less turnovers if you threw less.

i like the stat that herm got from playboy.80%!!!! that is a high percentage!

hermhater
12-19-2007, 12:43 AM
You know I will. I agree that higher yards per pass attempt is a good thing, but which would you rather have a guy that throws 10 times for a hundred yards or 30 times for 300? What did the Playboy say about yards per game? I actually have a hard time believing you actually read anything in a Playboy.

:lol::beer:

Well since those guys have the exact same yards per pass I would take the guy who threw 10 passes for 100 yards, because then they were running the ball for 45 minutes of the game!

Pretty boring football, but a win every time.

If you read the beginning of the post Playboy says yards per game don't matter.

Go and look at the stats and it doesn't matter what Playboy says.

hermhater
12-19-2007, 12:45 AM
The guy that throws 30 times has a better chance of throwing more INT's that could go for TD's that would negate his yardage!! How's that!!

You were supposed to argue with me there guy, not prough!

:lol:

Int's aren't the issue with Brodie, because he is young and being pressured a lot.

Grossman was in the Super Bowl last year and he threw a bunch of interceptions last year.

prough91
12-19-2007, 12:45 AM
No error made! None at all.

Elway averaged 212 yds rushing a year, I wouldn't call that exactly immobile compared to say Tom Brady who only averages 75. (I didn't count his first year because he only played in one game and didn't attempt a rush) Granted, not a Michael Vick, but still in this day and age, that isn't too shabby for a QB.

DrunkHillbilly
12-19-2007, 12:51 AM
Elway averaged 212 yds rushing a year, I wouldn't call that exactly immobile compared to say Tom Brady who only averages 75. (I didn't count his first year because he only played in one game and didn't attempt a rush) Granted, not a Michael Vick, but still in this day and age, that isn't too shabby for a QB.
Yea your right, he was a great runner!! Why the long face?

hermhater
12-19-2007, 12:55 AM
Yea your right, he was a great runner!! Why the long face?


:lol:

prough91
12-19-2007, 04:38 AM
:lol:

What? Why you laughing? I didn't respond to that because I didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

hermhater
12-19-2007, 04:40 AM
Yea your right, he was a great runner!! Why the long face?


:lol:


Elway averaged 212 yds rushing a year, I wouldn't call that exactly immobile compared to say Tom Brady who only averages 75. (I didn't count his first year because he only played in one game and didn't attempt a rush) Granted, not a Michael Vick, but still in this day and age, that isn't too shabby for a QB.


What? Why you laughing? I didn't respond to that because I didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

No! It's because Elway has a horse face!

:lol:

prough91
12-19-2007, 04:44 AM
No! It's because Elway has a horse face!

:lol:

Great. Now all of the sudden hillbilly is a clever son of a b*$@ch.

hermhater
12-19-2007, 04:54 AM
Never said that, Elways horse teeth have been known since he was birthed by Mr. Ed!

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2007/12/203.jpg

DrunkHillbilly
12-19-2007, 12:36 PM
Great. Now all of the sudden hillbilly is a clever son of a b*$@ch.
Always have been! You just get so worked up you never notice!!!!:yahoo: