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View Full Version : WTF-Chad Pennington to KC



cf2112
12-29-2007, 11:20 AM
while watching the NFL network one of them said Herm will be glad to be in NY and see some of his old players and possibly evaluate Chad Pennington and work out a trade for him as he will be a free agent after this year.

Just what we need another Jets throw off. Somebody please tell me this can't happen. While we may need another QB does anyone with half a brain think Chado is even a good back up.

I've about had it with this BS, anybody want my season tickets cause if they trade for anymore never was players and coaches I'm just going to watch from home. (I've always been and always will be a Chiefs fan but this is getting STUPID)

I'm about to say something I thought I would never say

BRING BACK MARTYBALL

Canada
12-29-2007, 11:22 AM
I'll take your seasons tickets!!

IlovetheChiefs
12-29-2007, 11:31 AM
Yeah keep hearing more and more about Chad possibly coming to KC.

And I'll take those season tickets off your hand for you, too!

prough91
12-29-2007, 12:14 PM
while watching the NFL network one of them said Herm will be glad to be in NY and see some of his old players and possibly evaluate Chad Pennington and work out a trade for him as he will be a free agent after this year.

Just what we need another Jets throw off. Somebody please tell me this can't happen. While we may need another QB does anyone with half a brain think Chado is even a good back up.

I've about had it with this BS, anybody want my season tickets cause if they trade for anymore never was players and coaches I'm just going to watch from home. (I've always been and always will be a Chiefs fan but this is getting STUPID)

I'm about to say something I thought I would never say

BRING BACK MARTYBALL

He's going to evaluate him carrying a clipboard, according to the Jets website, he's not starting. Which, by the way, is the first time I have ever went to another team's website and now I feel like I need a shower. As far as a backup, if the Chiefs could get him cheap enough, I see nothing wrong with getting him for a back-up. I haven't watched Chad play a ton, but what I have seen him play, he looked liked he had the football smarts, just not the physical attributes to be great in the league. If he would accept the role, he could help bring Croyle along.

tornadospotter
12-29-2007, 12:24 PM
while watching the NFL network one of them said Herm will be glad to be in NY and see some of his old players and possibly evaluate Chad Pennington and work out a trade for him as he will be a free agent after this year.

Just what we need another Jets throw off. Somebody please tell me this can't happen. While we may need another QB does anyone with half a brain think Chado is even a good back up.

I've about had it with this BS, anybody want my season tickets cause if they trade for anymore never was players and coaches I'm just going to watch from home. (I've always been and always will be a Chiefs fan but this is getting STUPID)

I'm about to say something I thought I would never say

BRING BACK MARTYBALL
Marty is available, and I say bring him back! But I hope he has learned to play winners and playmakers, I am a little pio about Gannon, from Marty's time as coach.

prough91
12-29-2007, 12:28 PM
I heard this rumor about four weeks ago and haven't said anything because I knew everyone would be talking about it for weeks. I don't see him being brought in unless it's as a back-up.

Chiefster
12-29-2007, 12:50 PM
I heard this rumor about four weeks ago and haven't said anything because I knew everyone would be talking about it for weeks. I don't see him being brought in unless it's as a back-up.

I give very little credence to rumor.

PawnshopMarimba
12-29-2007, 01:21 PM
Pennington is one of my least favorite quarterbacks ever. If the Chiefs acquire him, I'll have to give serious consideration on turning in my fancard. I'd rather have Vince Evans or Todd Marinovich, for chrissakes.

Chiefster
12-29-2007, 01:53 PM
Pennington is one of my least favorite quarterbacks ever. If the Chiefs acquire him, I'll have to give serious consideration on turning in my fancard. I'd rather have Vince Evans or Todd Marinovich, for chrissakes.

Don't do it; trust me on this, I know what I'm talkin about.

for ever red
12-29-2007, 03:03 PM
:11: as long as we dont give up a draft pick to get him ok with me

hermhater
12-29-2007, 03:17 PM
After the crap that Herm has pulled this season, I wouldn't be surprised if it came to fruition.

I can't believe this is happening to our Chiefs though...

Sigh...

Hayvern
12-29-2007, 04:57 PM
After the crap that Herm has pulled this season, I wouldn't be surprised if it came to fruition.

I can't believe this is happening to our Chiefs though...

Sigh...

Can anyone say Eddie Drummond? I really think that Herm Edwards would bring the guy in, AND as a starter. After what I have seen this year out of the guy, he will come up with some BS about how they see good things in the guy.

hermhater
12-29-2007, 05:14 PM
Can anyone say Eddie Drummond? I really think that Herm Edwards would bring the guy in, AND as a starter. After what I have seen this year out of the guy, he will come up with some BS about how they see good things in the guy.

I have no doubt Herm will do whatever is worst for the team.

Bringing in one of his croney QB's would not surprise me in the least!

:mob:

wolfpack
12-29-2007, 05:52 PM
he wants young players so this would go against his thinking. but he`ll think the o-line is fine AGAIN to start next season and pick him up as a FA. besides the way hermmie dose his offense we`ll need all the qb`s we can get,,,,they`ll all be hurt.

for ever red
12-29-2007, 09:44 PM
:yahoo: Play Chad and save Croyle till they get the line rebuilt...:lol:

chiefsinfinity
01-02-2008, 02:41 PM
I've heard about this too. I just hope it isn't true!! Chad's just had too many injuries!

Chiefster
01-02-2008, 02:43 PM
:yahoo: Play Chad and save Croyle till they get the line rebuilt...:lol:


In that event Croyle will then go the way of Odd Todd Collins.

Canada
01-02-2008, 05:25 PM
In that event Croyle will then go the way of Odd Todd Collins.

....didn't todd put the Skins in the playoffs this year??

chief31
01-02-2008, 06:25 PM
....didn't todd put the Skins in the playoffs this year??

He did, and he's played well in Al Saunders' offense.

Canada
01-03-2008, 11:05 AM
He did, and he's played well in Al Saunders' offense.

I miss al and his O

hermhater
01-03-2008, 02:30 PM
I miss al and his O

We all do...

NyJeTsFaN11
01-04-2008, 12:41 PM
Ahh anything to get rid of our duck QB. He is not the worst QB and will help Croyle out a lot, but I am just glad we are getting rid of him. His floating passes have done too much damage to my heart, hopefully they won't pain you as much, seeing those footballs float in the air, wondering if they will get intercepted....

m0ef0e
01-04-2008, 12:55 PM
I'm going to slap Herm Edwards if I ever see him in person...

hermhater
01-05-2008, 12:36 AM
Ahh anything to get rid of our duck QB. He is not the worst QB and will help Croyle out a lot, but I am just glad we are getting rid of him. His floating passes have done too much damage to my heart, hopefully they won't pain you as much, seeing those footballs float in the air, wondering if they will get intercepted....

My guess is timmy.

OTR Chiefs fan
01-05-2008, 12:48 PM
I'll be very surprised if they bring Pennington in as a back up. I feel Huard is just as good a QB at this point. I don't see the need for change in this area personally. This is the least of our worries at this point. :D

chief addict
01-05-2008, 12:57 PM
I can't believe they are even considering Chad. What's wrong with Huard? He's old but he's better than Chad or Brodie and if we had at least a decent offensive line we could have easily been a wildcard. Huard had no running game whatsoever to help and he got hit more times than most QB's in their entire career. If we go out and get a QB, we should go for a stud or draft one.

OTR Chiefs fan
01-05-2008, 01:17 PM
I can't believe they are even considering Chad. What's wrong with Huard? He's old but he's better than Chad or Brodie and if we had at least a decent offensive line we could have easily been a wildcard. Huard had no running game whatsoever to help and he got hit more times than most QB's in their entire career. If we go out and get a QB, we should go for a stud or draft one.

What I saw of Croyle I'm willing to give him another year. He certainly has more potential than Huard. Huard showed me this year that he's nothing more than a backup who can be effective over a short period of time but not for a whole season. Even though the O-line created a lot of problems for both QBs, Huard made some mistakes that a veteran QB should not make. I'm willing for the time being to attribute Croyle's mistakes to inexperience. Our biggest concern is shoring up the O-line, so we can have a better running attack and protect the QB more. Then we'll be able to get a fair evaluation of Croyle.
:D

Canada
01-07-2008, 10:21 PM
Pennington is staying in NY. Maybe Herm will go there to be with him!?!?!

for ever red
01-07-2008, 10:29 PM
I heard on tv that Pennington is staying in NY.(we got lucky)

Canada
01-07-2008, 10:48 PM
I heard on tv that Pennington is staying in NY.(we got lucky)

No, lucky would be Pennington and Herm in NY.

for ever red
01-07-2008, 10:50 PM
No, lucky would be Pennington and Herm in NY.
:bananen_smilies046: you are right on with that.:toast2:

hermhater
01-07-2008, 10:52 PM
Thank God!

:yahoo:

Canada
01-07-2008, 10:53 PM
Thank God!

:yahoo:

anything for you brother!! :bananen_smilies046:

texaschief
01-07-2008, 10:53 PM
No, lucky would be Pennington and Herm in NY.

you really should let this crap go....it get's old seeing the same crap from you on every thread.

hermhater
01-07-2008, 11:18 PM
you really should let this crap go....it get's old seeing the same crap from you on every thread.


Until Herm is out of KC I will never let it go. (I know that you were referencing Canada's post.)

Herm has destroyed this team.

This was a championship caliber offense until that f@rker got here.

I am just as keen as anyone else on getting the D shored up, but not at the total lack of an offense.

You are a smart football guy that has a lot of info.

I just can't understand why you think this team will ever be a winner with Herm...

Chiefster
01-07-2008, 11:42 PM
you really should let this crap go....it get's old seeing the same crap from you on every thread.


Ignore.

Canada
01-07-2008, 11:47 PM
you really should let this crap go....it get's old seeing the same crap from you on every thread.

Don't worry about what I post. I think I may have posted it twice. I know that is a lot of reading for you, but next time you can just skip it big guy!! :bananen_smilies046:

Canada
01-07-2008, 11:50 PM
Man lucky sure would be if Herm were somewhere else eh Texas!!

prough91
01-08-2008, 12:03 AM
Man lucky sure would be if Herm were somewhere else eh Texas!!

I wish he was in NY with Pennington.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 12:29 AM
Until Herm is out of KC I will never let it go. (I know that you were referencing Canada's post.)

Herm has destroyed this team.

This was a championship caliber offense until that f@rker got here.

I am just as keen as anyone else on getting the D shored up, but not at the total lack of an offense.

You are a smart football guy that has a lot of info.

I just can't understand why you think this team will ever be a winner with Herm...

How was the defense before he got here?
CARL was the one who destroyed the offense. Herm kept Dick's staff. Carl didn't want to pay to keep Saunders. Herm has done NOTHING to the offense. It got old. Carl didn't draft correctly and you're seeing the result.

You say Herm hasn't drafted any O-linemen since he's been here, but what did Vermeil do? He asked Carl for a couple free agents...they traded a play-making WR for an OT, also allowed an All-Pro OT to leave in FA. Other than that, the line was in place. Hell, he didn't even want LJ!!

Please, show me another play maker Vermeil drafted as he built this "championship caliber offense." Don't forget, it did take him a couple years to build that offense. Hell, Herm has already done more for the offense in the draft than Vermeil EVER did. Two starting WRs, a starting QB and a #2 RB.

Herm has been a head coach for only a few seasons and you want to compare him to these long-tenured coaches like Cowher and Vermeil.

So, besides the old O-line, old QB and injured Super Star RB, what makes YOU think he won't make this team a winner? The Jets' offense sure as hell could run the ball when he was there. They couldn't ever throw because Pennington couldn't stay healthy...due to the O-line or whatever.

Herm and Carl have said they are rebuilding this O-line, so with a rebuilt O-line, a healthy LJ and Kolby Smith, D-Bowe and Gonzo and a (God willing) healthy QB, this offense will be fine as long as they get an OC who can call a good game.

They are having to rebuild this ENTIRE team. The defense was first and now they are going to the offensive side of the ball....and you know what? they probably won't be too great next year if they rebuild thru the draft like they said they will. The Chiefs need at least 3 O-linemen this offseason. If they're all rookies, it won't be pretty.

Rebuilding franchises takes growing pains and patients. Obviously not something you have. Hopefully, when they are a .500 team next season, Mr. Hunt will see the progress made and won't listen to fair weather fans and stick with Herm. Otherwise, in a few years, the new coach will be riding the wave Herm created.

Too bad Carl and Dick couldn't have drafted better to provide a more capable offense for Herm. But, that's what happens when you build thru Free Agency and not the draft. Just look at the 6 drafts before Herm:

2005

1 LB Derrick Johnson
3 P Dustin Colquitt-
4 WR Craphonso Thorpe-
5 LB Boomer Grigsby
5 CB Alphonso Hodge
6 T Will Svitek
6 DE Khari Long
7 QB James Kilian
7 T Jeremy Parquet

2004

2 DT Junior Siavii
2 TE Kris Wilson
3 LB Keyaron Fox
4 WR Samie Parker
4 DE Jared Allen
6 WR Jeris McIntyre
7 T Kevin Sampson

2003

1 RB Larry Johnson
2 LB Kawika Mitchell
3 DB Julian Battle
4 T Brett Williams
5 T Jordan Black
6 DE Jimmy Wilkerson
7 DT Montique Sharpe
7 S Willie Pile

2002

1 DT Ryan Sims
2 DT Eddie Freeman
4 RB Omar Easy
5 LB Scott Fujita
7 LB Maurice Rodriguez

2001

3 DT Eric Downing
3 WR Marvin Minnis
4 DE Monty Beisel
4 RB George Layne
5 TE Billy Baber
5 RB Derrick Blaylock
6 G Alex Sulfsted
7 DB Shaunard Harts
7 DT Terdell Sands

2000

1 WR Sylvester Morris
2 DB William Bartee
3 DB Greg Wesley
4 RB Frank Moreau
5 RB Dante Hall
5 DB Pat Dennis
6 G Darnell Alford
7 WR Desmond Kitchings

In summary you see 5 remaining starters from 46 draft picks.

Compared to Herm's 2 drafts which brought in:

2007

1 WR Dwayne Bowe
2 DT Turk McBride
3 DT Tank Tyler
4 RB Kolby Smith
5 K Justin Medlock
6 OT Herbert Taylor
7 TE Michael Allen

2006

1 DE Tamba Hali
2 S Bernard Pollard
3 QB Brodie Croyle
5 CB Marcus Maxey
6 G Tre Stallings
6 WR Jeff Webb
7 S Jarrad Page

7 starters from 14 picks.

Please explain to me how when you're inheriting a team who has a total of 5 remaining players from the previous 6 drafts, you're going to make them a championship caliber team in 2 seasons. In no way, shape or form is the lack of talent on this team Herman Edward's fault. Dick Vermeil left him with a team who had a 9% hit rate in the draft and took it to a 50% hit rate in the last two seasons...and that's not including contributing players like Tank, Turk and possibly Tre Stallings.

While there was an obvious focus in the draft the past two years toward defense, (well besides the 8 of 14 offensive draft picks) it's not like the defense didn't need to be fixed first. They were in the basement long before the offense was and was in desperate need of a talent infusion.

Now that the offense is in desperate need of attention, I'm sure there will be more of a focus on that side of the ball....

Just give it time. success in the NFL doesn't come over night or by changing Head Coaches every other season.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:00 AM
nothing? really? :sign0163:

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:07 AM
How was the defense before he got here?
CARL was the one who destroyed the offense. Herm kept Dick's staff. Carl didn't want to pay to keep Saunders. Herm has done NOTHING to the offense. It got old. Carl didn't draft correctly and you're seeing the result.

You say Herm hasn't drafted any O-linemen since he's been here, but what did Vermeil do? He asked Carl for a couple free agents...they traded a play-making WR for an OT, also allowed an All-Pro OT to leave in FA. Other than that, the line was in place. Hell, he didn't even want LJ!!

Please, show me another play maker Vermeil drafted as he built this "championship caliber offense." Don't forget, it did take him a couple years to build that offense. Hell, Herm has already done more for the offense in the draft than Vermeil EVER did. Two starting WRs, a starting QB and a #2 RB.

Herm has been a head coach for only a few seasons and you want to compare him to these long-tenured coaches like Cowher and Vermeil.

So, besides the old O-line, old QB and injured Super Star RB, what makes YOU think he won't make this team a winner? The Jets' offense sure as hell could run the ball when he was there. They couldn't ever throw because Pennington couldn't stay healthy...due to the O-line or whatever.

Herm and Carl have said they are rebuilding this O-line, so with a rebuilt O-line, a healthy LJ and Kolby Smith, D-Bowe and Gonzo and a (God willing) healthy QB, this offense will be fine as long as they get an OC who can call a good game.

They are having to rebuild this ENTIRE team. The defense was first and now they are going to the offensive side of the ball....and you know what? they probably won't be too great next year if they rebuild thru the draft like they said they will. The Chiefs need at least 3 O-linemen this offseason. If they're all rookies, it won't be pretty.

Rebuilding franchises takes growing pains and patients. Obviously not something you have. Hopefully, when they are a .500 team next season, Mr. Hunt will see the progress made and won't listen to fair weather fans and stick with Herm. Otherwise, in a few years, the new coach will be riding the wave Herm created.

Too bad Carl and Dick couldn't have drafted better to provide a more capable offense for Herm. But, that's what happens when you build thru Free Agency and not the draft. Just look at the 6 drafts before Herm:

2005

1 LB Derrick Johnson
3 P Dustin Colquitt-
4 WR Craphonso Thorpe-
5 LB Boomer Grigsby
5 CB Alphonso Hodge
6 T Will Svitek
6 DE Khari Long
7 QB James Kilian
7 T Jeremy Parquet

2004

2 DT Junior Siavii
2 TE Kris Wilson
3 LB Keyaron Fox
4 WR Samie Parker
4 DE Jared Allen
6 WR Jeris McIntyre
7 T Kevin Sampson

2003

1 RB Larry Johnson
2 LB Kawika Mitchell
3 DB Julian Battle
4 T Brett Williams
5 T Jordan Black
6 DE Jimmy Wilkerson
7 DT Montique Sharpe
7 S Willie Pile

2002

1 DT Ryan Sims
2 DT Eddie Freeman
4 RB Omar Easy
5 LB Scott Fujita
7 LB Maurice Rodriguez

2001

3 DT Eric Downing
3 WR Marvin Minnis
4 DE Monty Beisel
4 RB George Layne
5 TE Billy Baber
5 RB Derrick Blaylock
6 G Alex Sulfsted
7 DB Shaunard Harts
7 DT Terdell Sands

2000

1 WR Sylvester Morris
2 DB William Bartee
3 DB Greg Wesley
4 RB Frank Moreau
5 RB Dante Hall
5 DB Pat Dennis
6 G Darnell Alford
7 WR Desmond Kitchings

In summary you see 5 remaining starters from 46 draft picks.

Compared to Herm's 2 drafts which brought in:

2007

1 WR Dwayne Bowe
2 DT Turk McBride
3 DT Tank Tyler
4 RB Kolby Smith
5 K Justin Medlock
6 OT Herbert Taylor
7 TE Michael Allen

2006

1 DE Tamba Hali
2 S Bernard Pollard
3 QB Brodie Croyle
5 CB Marcus Maxey
6 G Tre Stallings
6 WR Jeff Webb
7 S Jarrad Page

7 starters from 14 picks.

Please explain to me how when you're inheriting a team who has a total of 5 remaining players from the previous 6 drafts, you're going to make them a championship caliber team in 2 seasons. In no way, shape or form is the lack of talent on this team Herman Edward's fault. Dick Vermeil left him with a team who had a 9% hit rate in the draft and took it to a 50% hit rate in the last two seasons...and that's not including contributing players like Tank, Turk and possibly Tre Stallings.

While there was an obvious focus in the draft the past two years toward defense, (well besides the 8 of 14 offensive draft picks) it's not like the defense didn't need to be fixed first. They were in the basement long before the offense was and was in desperate need of a talent infusion.

Now that the offense is in desperate need of attention, I'm sure there will be more of a focus on that side of the ball....

Just give it time. success in the NFL doesn't come over night or by changing Head Coaches every other season.

Thank you for proving my point.

How many of those drafts from Dick have been let go because Herm doesn't know talent?

That is my biggest problem with the guy. He is stupid.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:09 AM
nothing? really? :sign0163:

My ex wife called and said she was gonna send my son to military school.

I had more pressing issues to deal with.

I like the way you present your info but I totally disagree with Herm's ability to evaluate talent.

Also he has ignored the O line when he knew that we had 2 Hall of fame O linemen were gonna retire (because they knew Herm's philosophy).

I don't want to argue, I just want to learn more.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:13 AM
Thank you for proving my point.

How many of those drafts from Dick have been let go because Herm doesn't know talent?

That is my biggest problem with the guy. He is stupid.

LMFAO!!!!!! Which players did he let go that were going to put this team over the top again?

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:16 AM
LMFAO!!!!!! Which players did he let go that were going to put this team over the top again?

You're a joke.

No need to insult people superstar. Sorry some people don't like Herm. I don't see how he has given a lot of KC fans a reason to like him. No one here wants to see him fail, but so far this team has gotten progressively worse since he showed up. Part of the head coaches job is to take the sh!t. I hope he does put together a kick *** team, but to this point we have lost some pro bowl lineman and he has done NOTHING about that. You don't find that even a little bit odd??

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:17 AM
Out of all those players, who has he released? Mitchell, Sims, Black....yeah, those guys were studs...let me tell ya

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:18 AM
Out of all those players, who has he released? Mitchell, Sims, Black....yeah, those guys were studs...let me tell ya

uh....I think Mitchell is part of a pretty good defense in NY is he not??

rbedgood
01-08-2008, 01:18 AM
How was the defense before he got here?
CARL was the one who destroyed the offense. Herm kept Dick's staff. Carl didn't want to pay to keep Saunders. Herm has done NOTHING to the offense. It got old. Carl didn't draft correctly and you're seeing the result.

You say Herm hasn't drafted any O-linemen since he's been here, but what did Vermeil do? He asked Carl for a couple free agents...they traded a play-making WR for an OT, also allowed an All-Pro OT to leave in FA. Other than that, the line was in place. Hell, he didn't even want LJ!!

Please, show me another play maker Vermeil drafted as he built this "championship caliber offense." Don't forget, it did take him a couple years to build that offense. Hell, Herm has already done more for the offense in the draft than Vermeil EVER did. Two starting WRs, a starting QB and a #2 RB.

Herm has been a head coach for only a few seasons and you want to compare him to these long-tenured coaches like Cowher and Vermeil.

So, besides the old O-line, old QB and injured Super Star RB, what makes YOU think he won't make this team a winner? The Jets' offense sure as hell could run the ball when he was there. They couldn't ever throw because Pennington couldn't stay healthy...due to the O-line or whatever.

Herm and Carl have said they are rebuilding this O-line, so with a rebuilt O-line, a healthy LJ and Kolby Smith, D-Bowe and Gonzo and a (God willing) healthy QB, this offense will be fine as long as they get an OC who can call a good game.

They are having to rebuild this ENTIRE team. The defense was first and now they are going to the offensive side of the ball....and you know what? they probably won't be too great next year if they rebuild thru the draft like they said they will. The Chiefs need at least 3 O-linemen this offseason. If they're all rookies, it won't be pretty.

Rebuilding franchises takes growing pains and patients. Obviously not something you have. Hopefully, when they are a .500 team next season, Mr. Hunt will see the progress made and won't listen to fair weather fans and stick with Herm. Otherwise, in a few years, the new coach will be riding the wave Herm created.

Too bad Carl and Dick couldn't have drafted better to provide a more capable offense for Herm. But, that's what happens when you build thru Free Agency and not the draft. Just look at the 6 drafts before Herm:

2005

1 LB Derrick Johnson
3 P Dustin Colquitt-
4 WR Craphonso Thorpe-
5 LB Boomer Grigsby
5 CB Alphonso Hodge
6 T Will Svitek
6 DE Khari Long
7 QB James Kilian
7 T Jeremy Parquet

2004

2 DT Junior Siavii
2 TE Kris Wilson
3 LB Keyaron Fox
4 WR Samie Parker
4 DE Jared Allen
6 WR Jeris McIntyre
7 T Kevin Sampson

2003

1 RB Larry Johnson
2 LB Kawika Mitchell
3 DB Julian Battle
4 T Brett Williams
5 T Jordan Black
6 DE Jimmy Wilkerson
7 DT Montique Sharpe
7 S Willie Pile

2002

1 DT Ryan Sims
2 DT Eddie Freeman
4 RB Omar Easy
5 LB Scott Fujita
7 LB Maurice Rodriguez

2001

3 DT Eric Downing
3 WR Marvin Minnis
4 DE Monty Beisel
4 RB George Layne
5 TE Billy Baber
5 RB Derrick Blaylock
6 G Alex Sulfsted
7 DB Shaunard Harts
7 DT Terdell Sands

2000

1 WR Sylvester Morris
2 DB William Bartee
3 DB Greg Wesley
4 RB Frank Moreau
5 RB Dante Hall
5 DB Pat Dennis
6 G Darnell Alford
7 WR Desmond Kitchings

In summary you see 5 remaining starters from 46 draft picks.

Compared to Herm's 2 drafts which brought in:

2007

1 WR Dwayne Bowe
2 DT Turk McBride
3 DT Tank Tyler
4 RB Kolby Smith
5 K Justin Medlock
6 OT Herbert Taylor
7 TE Michael Allen

2006

1 DE Tamba Hali
2 S Bernard Pollard
3 QB Brodie Croyle
5 CB Marcus Maxey
6 G Tre Stallings
6 WR Jeff Webb
7 S Jarrad Page

7 starters from 14 picks.

Please explain to me how when you're inheriting a team who has a total of 5 remaining players from the previous 6 drafts, you're going to make them a championship caliber team in 2 seasons. In no way, shape or form is the lack of talent on this team Herman Edward's fault. Dick Vermeil left him with a team who had a 9% hit rate in the draft and took it to a 50% hit rate in the last two seasons...and that's not including contributing players like Tank, Turk and possibly Tre Stallings.

While there was an obvious focus in the draft the past two years toward defense, (well besides the 8 of 14 offensive draft picks) it's not like the defense didn't need to be fixed first. They were in the basement long before the offense was and was in desperate need of a talent infusion.

Now that the offense is in desperate need of attention, I'm sure there will be more of a focus on that side of the ball....

Just give it time. success in the NFL doesn't come over night or by changing Head Coaches every other season.

Most of your data is true, yet the concept of comparing drafts is a little skewed. The following players were starters in the NFL this year

Dante Hall (KR-StL)
Kawicka Mitchell (LB-NYG)
Jordan Black (T-Hou)
Scott Fujita (LB-NO)

Just because these players left, doesn't mean they weren't good draft picks. The numbers are still in favor of the past 2 years, but I just wanted to point out the missing information.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:19 AM
LMFAO!!!!!! Which players did he let go that were going to put this team over the top again?

Putting the team over the top was not my point.

Getting rid of Dante to give 3 mil to Drummond comes to mind as to why he doesn't recognize talent though.

He has neglected the most important part of a football team. The O line.

Bringing in a slow fat turd like McIntosh was his big fix?

You are the one talking about building from the draft (which I agree with, but Herm doesn't know how) so how is getting a slow fat turd through FA a good decision?

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:23 AM
No need to insult people superstar. Sorry some people don't like Herm. I don't see how he has given a lot of KC fans a reason to like him. No one here wants to see him fail, but so far this team has gotten progressively worse since he showed up. Part of the head coaches job is to take the sh!t. I hope he does put together a kick *** team, but to this point we have lost some pro bowl lineman and he has done NOTHING about that. You don't find that even a little bit odd??

You act like they didn't sign Free Agents last year to help the line. Isn't that what all of you want? To go back to the Vermeil era when he built thru Free agency? Again, Roaf retired AFTER his first draft. These past 2 drafts everyone has been screaming for a WR and y'all got one.

Now you would want to give up Bowe? You can't go into the draft thinking i'm only going to get O-linemen. you take the best available player. Hopefully they won't reach for an O-lineman this year if Long isn't available. If it's an OL they want, they need to trade down.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:25 AM
uh....I think Mitchell is part of a pretty good defense in NY is he not??

Just because he's part of that defense doesn't mean he better than he was here....I like Harris. He's younger and more talented.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:30 AM
You act like they didn't sign Free Agents last year to help the line. Isn't that what all of you want? To go back to the Vermeil era when he built thru Free agency? Again, Roaf retired AFTER his first draft. These past 2 drafts everyone has been screaming for a WR and y'all got one.

Now you would want to give up Bowe? You can't go into the draft thinking i'm only going to get O-linemen. you take the best available player. Hopefully they won't reach for an O-lineman this year if Long isn't available. If it's an OL they want, they need to trade down.

Yes I want an O line....you don't? When did I say any of this?? I don't remember saying lets get rid of Bowe?? I never said draft only O line. As far as taking the best available player....should we ignore the needs of the team?? I guess spewing this crap helps to support you argument, but seriously man....get off the soapbox. Herm has done a poor job of coaching this team so far. I make jokes....you cry and then start ranting and raving at everyone who dosen't agree with you?? Do you honestly think that Herm has been a good coach so far? I am not saying that he won't be, but 4-12?? That is bad coaching my friend.

prough91
01-08-2008, 01:31 AM
Just because he's part of that defense doesn't mean he better than he was here....I like Harris. He's younger and more talented.

I never thought Mitchell was bad and he blossomed under Gunther. I watched 4 or 5 Giants games this year and he's no superstar, but he's pretty good.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:33 AM
You act like they didn't sign Free Agents last year to help the line. Isn't that what all of you want? To go back to the Vermeil era when he built thru Free agency? Again, Roaf retired AFTER his first draft. These past 2 drafts everyone has been screaming for a WR and y'all got one.

Now you would want to give up Bowe? You can't go into the draft thinking i'm only going to get O-linemen. you take the best available player. Hopefully they won't reach for an O-lineman this year if Long isn't available. If it's an OL they want, they need to trade down.

Quit saying "you" and "you all" together in a statement.


I watched "Invincible". Dick doesn't just use FA he lets any guy off the street try out!

:lol:

It appears that texaschief wants to grow through the draft, and believes Herm is reading his posts and will listen to his advice.

My point to you texaschief is that Herm will not do this.

I am also worried about a bust in the first round by drafting an O lineman, but as the name of the process suggests it is a gamble.

I don't think Herm has any idea what talent is on the offense.

DBo still has to prove himself during the last quarter of the season. He is a stud, no doubt about it, but we don't play in a dome at home in December.

His hands have looked VERY shaky to me in cold weather.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:34 AM
Putting the team over the top was not my point.

Getting rid of Dante to give 3 mil to Drummond comes to mind as to why he doesn't recognize talent though.

He has neglected the most important part of a football team. The O line.

Bringing in a slow fat turd like McIntosh was his big fix?

You are the one talking about building from the draft (which I agree with, but Herm doesn't know how) so how is getting a slow fat turd through FA a good decision?

What makes you think McIntosh was only Herm's decision. You're giving him WAY too much credit for personell decisions. Carl is the G.M....not Herm.

Herm may not know how to build an O-line, but again...he's not the G.M. From what you have made VERY clear is that they had a "Championship Caliber Offense" a couple years ago...so obviously, Carl should know how to at the very least build the line.

Shields, Waters, Tait, Wiegman, and Gonzales were all here before Vermeil. Carl should get SOME credit for that...and if not him, then Gunther Cunningham...who is still here BTW.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:36 AM
What makes you think McIntosh was only Herm's decision. You're giving him WAY too much credit for personell decisions. Carl is the G.M....not Herm.

Herm may not know how to build an O-line, but again...he's not the G.M. From what you have made VERY clear is that they had a "Championship Caliber Offense" a couple years ago...so obviously, Carl should know how to at the very least build the line.

Shields, Waters, Tait, Wiegman, and Gonzales were all here before Vermeil. Carl should get SOME credit for that...and if not him, then Gunther Cunningham...who is still here BTW.

So only the good decisions are Herms?? WTF are you even yapping about now??

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:39 AM
Yes I want an O line....you don't? When did I say any of this?? I don't remember saying lets get rid of Bowe?? I never said draft only O line. As far as taking the best available player....should we ignore the needs of the team?? I guess spewing this crap helps to support you argument, but seriously man....get off the soapbox. Herm has done a poor job of coaching this team so far. I make jokes....you cry and then start ranting and raving at everyone who dosen't agree with you?? Do you honestly think that Herm has been a good coach so far? I am not saying that he won't be, but 4-12?? That is bad coaching my friend.

you're right.....the Chiefs, Colts, Chargers and Patriots were about equal as far as talent goes....it's ALL on Herm. Can't see why i didn't see the light until now...thank you Canada. :sign0098:

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:39 AM
I just wish we could be lucky enough to send Herm back to NY!! :bananen_smilies046:

prough91
01-08-2008, 01:39 AM
What makes you think McIntosh was only Herm's decision. You're giving him WAY too much credit for personell decisions. Carl is the G.M....not Herm.

Herm may not know how to build an O-line, but again...he's not the G.M. From what you have made VERY clear is that they had a "Championship Caliber Offense" a couple years ago...so obviously, Carl should know how to at the very least build the line.

Shields, Waters, Tait, Wiegman, and Gonzales were all here before Vermeil. Carl should get SOME credit for that...and if not him, then Gunther Cunningham...who is still here BTW.

Will he do that on his "five year plan" also?

prough91
01-08-2008, 01:40 AM
I just wish we could be lucky enough to send Herm back to NY!! :bananen_smilies046:

Ah, to reunite him with Chad.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:41 AM
What makes you think McIntosh was only Herm's decision. You're giving him WAY too much credit for personell decisions. Carl is the G.M....not Herm.

Herm may not know how to build an O-line, but again...he's not the G.M. From what you have made VERY clear is that they had a "Championship Caliber Offense" a couple years ago...so obviously, Carl should know how to at the very least build the line.

Shields, Waters, Tait, Wiegman, and Gonzales were all here before Vermeil. Carl should get SOME credit for that...and if not him, then Gunther Cunningham...who is still here BTW.

You give great info man, but how can you not see the flaw in your argument about the talent.

Carl has repeatedly defended Herm so he is as much at fault as Herm.

Perhaps you misunderstand that I hate Carl even more than Herm.

I have been dealing with Carl for more than half of my life and he is like the hemorrhoid on my ***. I just deal with it.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:42 AM
So only the good decisions are Herms?? WTF are you even yapping about now??

So, the bad decisions are all Herm....He didn't draft an O-lineman in the first round last season, he let D. Hall go (who wanted to leave btw) and.....what? hired Solari? you're right. let's fire the guy. what an idiot.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:42 AM
you're right.....the Chiefs, Colts, Chargers and Patriots were about equal as far as talent goes....it's ALL on Herm. Can't see why i didn't see the light until now...thank you Canada. :sign0098:

Sarcasm....sign of the truly intelligent. Can u read? I never said that we were as talented as those teams, but we are more talented that say the faders, the jets, the lions, the texans.
Can you explain why we lost all those games?? You should be able to....you are from Texas after all.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:44 AM
So, the bad decisions are all Herm....He didn't draft an O-lineman in the first round last season, he let D. Hall go (who wanted to leave btw) and.....what? hired Solari? you're right. let's fire the guy. what an idiot.

You need to take a breather man, I made a joke. Herm has not been a good coach to this point. The guy is not a perfect coach. Have you noticed that people complain about CP around here too, or does that not suit your argument tonite??

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:45 AM
i can explain it just like all of you can...the o-line. Hell, it's all anyone has seen on this board all season. but i thought we covered this already. or have you forgotten?

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:46 AM
You need to take a breather man, I made a joke. Herm has not been a good coach to this point. The guy is not a perfect coach. Have you noticed that people complain about CP around here too, or does that not suit your argument tonite??

We're not talking about CP. We're talking about Herm.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:46 AM
i can explain it just like all of you can...the o-line. Hell, it's all anyone has seen on this board all season. but i thought we covered this already. or have you forgotten?

What are you talking about now?? Herm going to NY?? We should be so lucky!! :bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:46 AM
So, the bad decisions are all Herm....He didn't draft an O-lineman in the first round last season, he let D. Hall go (who wanted to leave btw) and.....what? hired Solari? you're right. let's fire the guy. what an idiot.

EVERYONE wanted to leave when they found out CARL was hiring HERM.

Poor argument.

You seem to know talent, but you continually support a guy who doesn't.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:47 AM
come on Canada, stay with us. :lol:

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:48 AM
What makes you think McIntosh was only Herm's decision. You're giving him WAY too much credit for personell decisions. Carl is the G.M....not Herm.

Herm may not know how to build an O-line, but again...he's not the G.M. From what you have made VERY clear is that they had a "Championship Caliber Offense" a couple years ago...so obviously, Carl should know how to at the very least build the line.

Shields, Waters, Tait, Wiegman, and Gonzales were all here before Vermeil. Carl should get SOME credit for that...and if not him, then Gunther Cunningham...who is still here BTW.


We're not talking about CP. We're talking about Herm.

We aren't?? Which GM were you referring to then?

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:49 AM
EVERYONE wanted to leave when they found out CARL was hiring HERM.

Poor argument.

You seem to know talent, but you continually support a guy who doesn't.

please explain to me who he let go that has hurt this team to badly....give me examples. please.

D. Hall hadn't done ANYTHING lately. All he did was dance around. He was better than Drummond, but he wasn't the old Dante.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:51 AM
please explain to me who he let go that has hurt this team to badly....give me examples. please.

D. Hall hadn't done ANYTHING lately. All he did was dance around. He was better than Drummond, but he wasn't the old Dante.

It's not who he let go of...it's who he has not bothered to find replacements for. Roaf and Shields.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:52 AM
It's not who he let go of...it's who he has not bothered to find replacements for. Roaf and Shields.

lol...good lord, he's only had one draft to do it. are you kidding me?

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:53 AM
please explain to me who he let go that has hurt this team to badly....give me examples. please.

D. Hall hadn't done ANYTHING lately. All he did was dance around. He was better than Drummond, but he wasn't the old Dante.

My point was that Roaf and Shields left because they knew they were near the end of their careers and that Herm was gonna grind the team into the ground like he did in New York.

So you think Dante is better than Drummond but that was a good decision.

Don't know how to argue that point.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:54 AM
lol...good lord, he's only had one draft to do it. are you kidding me?

And who did he draft?? A TE in the 7 th round. Brilliant. It is laughable.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 01:55 AM
I am trying to keep up with this argument, but other crap is happening here.

You guys are responding too quick for me to post in a timely manner.

I will try to do better.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:56 AM
My point was that Roaf and Shields left because they knew they were near the end of their careers and that Herm was gonna grind the team into the ground like he did in New York.

So you think Dante is better than Drummond but that was a good decision.

Don't know how to argue that point.

You're talking about a kick returner. Really? that's what you're gonna base your entire arguement on?

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:57 AM
You're talking about a kick returner. Really? that's what you're gonna base your entire arguement on?

I believe we were talking about how he never even attempted to replace two hall of fame linemen, but you didn't want to talk about that

prough91
01-08-2008, 01:58 AM
lol...good lord, he's only had one draft to do it. are you kidding me?

You mean, Herm or Carl couldn't look at the ages of Roaf and Shields, both who openly mulled retirement way before they actually did, and not think maybe, just maybe we ought to get some guys to replace them when they retire? Hey is that the chiefscrowd record for longest sentence? If it is, I'm putting it in my signature.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 01:59 AM
And who did he draft?? A TE in the 7 th round. Brilliant. It is laughable.

Everyone knew they were getting old. Why didn't Vermeil draft any O-linemen?

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:00 AM
You mean, Herm or Carl couldn't look at the ages of Roaf and Shields, both who openly mulled retirement way before they actually did, and not think maybe, just maybe we ought to get some guys to replace them when they retire? Hey is that the chiefscrowd record for longest sentence? If it is, I'm putting it in my signature.

I think that is a record for the longest sentence ever on chiefscrowd cause i have read a lot of post here and never ever have i ever seen a sentence as long as the sentence that you just typed in the post previous to this post that i am posting now that could not possibly end up haveing a sentence nearly as long as the one that you posted before I posted this one so you are for sure gonna have the longest chiefscrowd sentence ever!! Congrats!! :bananen_smilies046:

prough91
01-08-2008, 02:01 AM
I think that is a record for the longest sentence ever on chiefscrowd cause i have read a lot of post here and never ever have i ever seen a sentence as long as the sentence that you just typed in the post previous to this post that i am posting now that could not possibly end up haveing a sentence nearly as long as the one that you posted before I posted this one so you are for sure gonna have the longest chiefscrowd sentence ever!! Congrats!! :bananen_smilies046:

See? Now you just ruined if for me. At least I used proper punctuation.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:02 AM
For the record, i don't think the offensive line is the responsibility of the head coach. There are certain positions that the GM needs to keep track of and carl took his eye off the ball on this one.

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:02 AM
See? Now you just ruined if for me. At least I used proper punctuation.

Sorry, I was just so excited.

prough91
01-08-2008, 02:05 AM
Sorry, I was just so excited.

I still have the record for properly punctuated longest sentence. Check out the sig in a minute.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 02:05 AM
You're talking about a kick returner. Really? that's what you're gonna base your entire arguement on?

I am not basing my argument on a kick returner (although I could probably make a very convincing argument about our return game, the blocking as well as the returner) but you asked me who has made an impact since Herm released them.

I gave you an example.

I have a lot of sh!t going on here right now man.

You are arguing with a guy that has a lot more on his mind than this right now.

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:06 AM
For the record, i don't think the offensive line is the responsibility of the head coach. There are certain positions that the GM needs to keep track of and carl took his eye off the ball on this one.

We are talking about the head coach, not the GM

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:07 AM
I am not basing my argument on a kick returner (although I could probably make a very convincing argument about our return game, the blocking as well as the returner) but you asked me who has made an impact since Herm released them.

I gave you an example.

I have a lot of sh!t going on here right now man.

You are arguing with a guy that has a lot more on his mind than this right now.

Take care of your stuff man. This is just trivial fodder. You should know by now i'm not going anywhere.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:08 AM
We are talking about the head coach, not the GM

I'm pretty sure i made my self clear about the head coach in that statement. thanks.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 02:08 AM
For the record, i don't think the offensive line is the responsibility of the head coach. There are certain positions that the GM needs to keep track of and carl took his eye off the ball on this one.

I am almost in shock that you said that.

So what exactly is your philosophy?

Do you believe the GM should be required to get the right talent, and then the Head Coach should utilize it right?

If so then you think Herm can make chicken sh!t out of chicken salad.

If you believe Herm is able to do that then talk to Printers.

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:09 AM
I'm pretty sure i made my self clear about the head coach in that statement. thanks.

you have done nothing but talk in circles and made a point about absolutely nothing other than the fact that you don't think it would be funny if Herm went back to NY!

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:13 AM
you have done nothing but talk in circles and made a point about absolutely nothing other than the fact that you don't think it would be funny if Herm went back to NY!

and you've done nothing but try to twist my words. It really is a shame you can't support your arguements in one coherent thought.

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:14 AM
and you've done nothing but try to twist my words. It really is a shame you can't support your arguements in one coherent thought.

:lol: Are you serious?? You don't even know what you are arguing about.

prough91
01-08-2008, 02:15 AM
I would argue, but I really don't know what or who we're arguing about anymore.

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:16 AM
Texas is upset cause I said we would be lucky if Herm went back to NY. Got his panties all up in a wad!!

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:17 AM
I am almost in shock that you said that.

So what exactly is your philosophy?

Do you believe the GM should be required to get the right talent, and then the Head Coach should utilize it right?

If so then you think Herm can make chicken sh!t out of chicken salad.

If you believe Herm is able to do that then talk to Printers.

No, i just think there are certain positions that the GM should never let get to the point our O-line got to this year. Hell, Carl said as much when he acknowledged he messed up with the line.

You win in football in the pit. As the GM, especially a long tenured one like CP, you have to make sure your line doesn't get old. As you see players like Roaf, Weigman and Shields reaching retirement, he should've been drafting replacements a couple years ago.

Quarterback and Runningback and Cornerback are the other positions i put in that same category.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:18 AM
:lol: Are you serious?? You don't even know what you are arguing about.

whatever you say hoss

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:19 AM
So what does the head coach do then?

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:21 AM
:lol: Are you serious?? You don't even know what you are arguing about.


whatever you say hoss

so what is it that you are arguing about then?? hoss

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:21 AM
So what does the head coach do then?

Do you think the head coach is only good for player aquisitions? lol

What the hell do you think the G.M. is for?

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:22 AM
Do you think the head coach is only good for player aquisitions? lol

What the hell do you think the G.M. is for?

or just don't answer the question at all. Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot than to open open it and remove all doubt. :bananen_smilies046:

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:22 AM
so what is it that you are arguing about then?? hoss

go back and read

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:23 AM
or just don't answer the question at all. Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot than to open open it and remove all doubt. :bananen_smilies046:

:iamwithstupid:

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:23 AM
Texas is upset cause I said we would be lucky if Herm went back to NY. Got his panties all up in a wad!!

It all started with this.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 02:27 AM
No, i just think there are certain positions that the GM should never let get to the point our O-line got to this year. Hell, Carl said as much when he acknowledged he messed up with the line.

You win in football in the pit. As the GM, especially a long tenured one like CP, you have to make sure your line doesn't get old. As you see players like Roaf, Weigman and Shields reaching retirement, he should've been drafting replacements a couple years ago.

Quarterback and Runningback and Cornerback are the other positions i put in that same category.

I won't argue about Carl anymore. Like I said before he has been a part of my life for over half of it.

If you believe the Head Coach has to just "deal" with the choices of the GM then you are one of Carl's cronies.

If for some reason Carl is fired and Herm stays on and we win a Super Bowl then I will believe everything you say.

Herm is the problem not the solution.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:29 AM
I won't argue about Carl anymore. Like I said before he has been a part of my life for over half of it.

If you believe the Head Coach has to just "deal" with the choices of the GM then you are one of Carl's cronies.

If for some reason Carl is fired and Herm stays on and we win a Super Bowl then I will believe everything you say.

Herm is the problem not the solution.

How could you possibly say that Herm is the problem when we haven't seen the Super Bowl since Carl has been here? How many coaches does he have to go thru before it's not his fault?

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:32 AM
No, lucky would be Pennington and Herm in NY.


you really should let this crap go....it get's old seeing the same crap from you on every thread.

I believe this is where it started.


LMFAO!!!!!! Which players did he let go that were going to put this team over the top again?

The head coach right?? Herm.


Out of all those players, who has he released? Mitchell, Sims, Black....yeah, those guys were studs...let me tell ya

Again....Herm. Right??


You act like they didn't sign Free Agents last year to help the line. Isn't that what all of you want? To go back to the Vermeil era when he built thru Free agency? Again, Roaf retired AFTER his first draft. These past 2 drafts everyone has been screaming for a WR and y'all got one.

Now you would want to give up Bowe? You can't go into the draft thinking i'm only going to get O-linemen. you take the best available player. Hopefully they won't reach for an O-lineman this year if Long isn't available. If it's an OL they want, they need to trade down.

And more Herm


What makes you think McIntosh was only Herm's decision. You're giving him WAY too much credit for personell decisions. Carl is the G.M....not Herm.

Herm may not know how to build an O-line, but again...he's not the G.M. From what you have made VERY clear is that they had a "Championship Caliber Offense" a couple years ago...so obviously, Carl should know how to at the very least build the line.

Shields, Waters, Tait, Wiegman, and Gonzales were all here before Vermeil. Carl should get SOME credit for that...and if not him, then Gunther Cunningham...who is still here BTW.

And Her....oh wait Carl


We're not talking about CP. We're talking about Herm.

Oh Yeah....Herm.


We aren't?? Which GM were you referring to then?


lol...good lord, he's only had one draft to do it. are you kidding me?

Who Herm??


For the record, i don't think the offensive line is the responsibility of the head coach. There are certain positions that the GM needs to keep track of and carl took his eye off the ball on this one.

Oh Carl


I'm pretty sure i made my self clear about the head coach in that statement. thanks.

Really?? U don't even know who you are talkin about anymore/


No, i just think there are certain positions that the GM should never let get to the point our O-line got to this year. Hell, Carl said as much when he acknowledged he messed up with the line.

You win in football in the pit. As the GM, especially a long tenured one like CP, you have to make sure your line doesn't get old. As you see players like Roaf, Weigman and Shields reaching retirement, he should've been drafting replacements a couple years ago.

Quarterback and Runningback and Cornerback are the other positions i put in that same category.

So....Carl


Do you think the head coach is only good for player aquisitions? lol

Herm

What the hell do you think the G.M. is for?

Carl


go back and read

See....you are talking in circles hoss. :bananen_smilies046:

prough91
01-08-2008, 02:34 AM
I, for one, don't know how to multi-quote.

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:35 AM
Me neither

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:41 AM
yeah, ok. then stop reading if you're getting dizzy. It really is too bad that you can't hold a conversation. guess you'll just stay confused there O Canada.

Canada
01-08-2008, 02:42 AM
yeah, ok. then stop reading if you're getting dizzy. It really is too bad that you can't hold a conversation. guess you'll just stay confused there O Canada.

I see how you just jump back and forth from Herm to Carl. News Flash genius....they both suck.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 02:43 AM
How could you possibly say that Herm is the problem when we haven't seen the Super Bowl since Carl has been here? How many coaches does he have to go thru before it's not his fault?


OK I will say it again.

Carl is the problem. He hired Herm because he has some mesmeric hold on the Hunt family.

And Herm sucks and always will.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 02:43 AM
I see how you just jump back and forth from Herm to Carl. News Flash genius....they both suck.

You suck!

:bananen_smilies046:

prough91
01-08-2008, 02:45 AM
yeah, ok. then stop reading if you're getting dizzy. It really is too bad that you can't hold a conversation. guess you'll just stay confused there O Canada.

Dude, you're confusing me and I haven't touched a drop in, like, two weeks.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 02:47 AM
I see how you just jump back and forth from Herm to Carl. News Flash genius....they both suck.

No, just uninformed fair weather fans like yourself like to think so. I have yet to read one positive post by you or Hater. Always a glass completely empty with you two. I bet y'all were all over Vermeil's *** about not how crappy the defense was....oh wait, that's right. You don't need a defense in today's NFL, right Hater?

my bad.

prough91
01-08-2008, 02:50 AM
No, just uninformed fair weather fans like yourself like to think so. I have yet to read one positive post by you or Hater. Always a glass completely empty with you two. I bet y'all were all over Vermeil's *** about not how crappy the defense was....oh wait, that's right. You don't need a defense in today's NFL, right Hater?

my bad.

Where you get off calling anyone fair weather? These guys are here every night talking about the Chiefs and you drop in, what, every couple weeks or so?

hermhater
01-08-2008, 02:51 AM
No, just uninformed fair weather fans like yourself like to think so. I have yet to read one positive post by you or Hater. Always a glass completely empty with you two. I bet y'all were all over Vermeil's *** about not how crappy the defense was....oh wait, that's right. You don't need a defense in today's NFL, right Hater?

my bad.

I wish you would quit making this a "you" thing.

A defense is nice to have, but if you can't score you won't win against most teams.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:01 AM
Dude, you're confusing me and I haven't touched a drop in, like, two weeks.

Really? What is so confusing?


Carl knows how to build an O-line and even though y'all think Herm doesn't know how to do it, between the two, they should be able to get it done in the next two or three years.
Herm IS NOT the problem. His plan is to build this team the way it SHOULD be built, thru the draft. Something the GM should be able to help him do.
Herm's influence in the war room has shown up huge compared to what Vermeil was able to do. Apparently, Herm IS a better evaluater of talent than Dick was as i showed earlier when i compared the drafts.
Carl has had 20 seasons to make sure this O-Line didn't get old and he wasn't able to keep them competitive. Herm on the other hand has had only 2 drafts to completely rebuild the defense AND keep the line young AND draft a QB AND draft a WR AND draft a D-Line. The O-line shouldn't even be a worry of Herms if Carl had done his job the past 5 or 6 seasons correctly.
For poor drafts like the ones during the Vermeil era, poor foresight, shrewd contract negotiations, poor cap management and the fact that he's had 20 years to get it done and has failed to do so are all reasons why i think Carl Peterson is the problem and not Herman Edwards.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:01 AM
Where you get off calling anyone fair weather? These guys are here every night talking about the Chiefs and you drop in, what, every couple weeks or so?

To be honest prough, I talk about a lot more than just the Chiefs! :lol:

This guy has brought up some wounds that were already opened and rubbed salt in them, so I got a little pissed.

Let's see...

Should we end this thread on a parrot or a webcam post of hermhater?

:lol:

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:03 AM
Really? What is so confusing?

Carl knows how to build an O-line and even though y'all think Herm doesn't know how to do it, between the two, they should be able to get it done in the next two or three years.
Herm IS NOT the problem. His plan is to build this team the way it SHOULD be built, thru the draft. Something the GM should be able to help him do.
Herm's influence in the war room has shown up huge compared to what Vermeil was able to do. Apparently, Herm IS a better evaluater of talent than Dick was as i showed earlier when i compared the drafts.
Carl has had 20 seasons to make sure this O-Line didn't get old and he wasn't able to keep them competitive. Herm on the other hand has had only 2 drafts to completely rebuild the defense AND keep the line young AND draft a QB AND draft a WR AND draft a D-Line. The O-line shouldn't even be a worry of Herms if Carl had done his job the past 5 or 6 seasons correctly.
For poor drafts like the ones during the Vermeil era, poor foresight, shrewd contract negotiations, poor cap management and the fact that he's had 20 years to get it done and has failed to do so are all reasons why i think Carl Peterson is the problem and not Herman Edwards.

Carl is a the problem.

He hired Herm.

What is the argument?

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:04 AM
Where you get off calling anyone fair weather? These guys are here every night talking about the Chiefs and you drop in, what, every couple weeks or so?

lol...so i'm the bad guy cuz i've got crap to do? i hit this site every day. just because i don't post means what?

I'm the only one here who likes this team. I'm the only one here who's willing to go thru the painful process of rebuilding this team. All y'all want a quick fix. It doesn't happen like that.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:07 AM
Carl is a the problem.

He hired Herm.

What is the argument?

I'll accept your appologies in a couple years when you're ready....but i'm sure you'll still find something to complain about.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:10 AM
Really? What is so confusing?

Carl knows how to build an O-line and even though y'all think Herm doesn't know how to do it, between the two, they should be able to get it done in the next two or three years.
Herm IS NOT the problem. His plan is to build this team the way it SHOULD be built, thru the draft. Something the GM should be able to help him do.
Herm's influence in the war room has shown up huge compared to what Vermeil was able to do. Apparently, Herm IS a better evaluater of talent than Dick was as i showed earlier when i compared the drafts.
Carl has had 20 seasons to make sure this O-Line didn't get old and he wasn't able to keep them competitive. Herm on the other hand has had only 2 drafts to completely rebuild the defense AND keep the line young AND draft a QB AND draft a WR AND draft a D-Line. The O-line shouldn't even be a worry of Herms if Carl had done his job the past 5 or 6 seasons correctly.
For poor drafts like the ones during the Vermeil era, poor foresight, shrewd contract negotiations, poor cap management and the fact that he's had 20 years to get it done and has failed to do so are all reasons why i think Carl Peterson is the problem and not Herman Edwards.

And that is a particularly poor quote from a right winger.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:11 AM
And that is a particularly poor quote from a right winger.

:sign0153:

prough91
01-08-2008, 03:12 AM
lol...so i'm the bad guy cuz i've got crap to do? i hit this site every day. just because i don't post means what?

I'm the only one here who likes this team. I'm the only one here who's willing to go thru the painful process of rebuilding this team. All y'all want a quick fix. It doesn't happen like that.

And I'm fair weather because I don't agree with you? You're the only one here who likes this team? Man, you are arrogant. I know there isn't a quick fix, but that don't mean I don't have the right to voice my frustration when I don't like how the team's doing. That's part of being a fan. I'm still rooting for them and I hope they do great in the draft. Why don't you look up fair weather fan.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:12 AM
lol...so i'm the bad guy cuz i've got crap to do? i hit this site every day. just because i don't post means what?

I'm the only one here who likes this team. I'm the only one here who's willing to go thru the painful process of rebuilding this team. All y'all want a quick fix. It doesn't happen like that.

y'all are wrong.

Keep arguing your point.


Someday it will be right.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:18 AM
y'all are wrong.

Keep arguing your point.


Someday it will be right.

and you keep calling for new coaches every other year. that works SO much better.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:21 AM
and you keep calling for new coaches every other year. that works SO much better.


I have been on this site since September.

That is not every other year.

I like the way you post info, but now I am beginning to doubt the validity of it with your ability to evaluate talent (on this site and the team).

:bananen_smilies046:

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:34 AM
I have been on this site since September.

That is not every other year.

I like the way you post info, but now I am beginning to doubt the validity of it with your ability to evaluate talent (on this site and the team).

:bananen_smilies046:

....and that really hurts too, because i live for your approval there hater.:sign0095:

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:37 AM
and you keep calling for new coaches every other year. that works SO much better.


I have been on this site since September.

That is not every other year.

I like the way you post info, but now I am beginning to doubt the validity of it with your ability to evaluate talent (on this site and the team).

:bananen_smilies046:


....and that really hurts too, because i live for your approval there hater.:sign0095:

Don't ask or want for your approval.

I hope it hurts a little bit.

I don't know what you live for man, but it sounds like you believe what Herm says, and that is a bad thing.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:41 AM
Don't ask or want for your approval.

I hope it hurts a little bit.

I don't know what you live for man, but it sounds like you believe what Herm says, and that is a bad thing.

says the town drunk

texaschief
01-08-2008, 03:43 AM
I'm out, y'all have a goodnite.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:45 AM
says the town drunk

That did it.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 03:46 AM
I'm out, y'all have a goodnite.

Forfeit another name will ya?

Canada
01-08-2008, 03:54 AM
No, just uninformed fair weather fans like yourself like to think so. I have yet to read one positive post by you or Hater. Always a glass completely empty with you two. I bet y'all were all over Vermeil's *** about not how crappy the defense was....oh wait, that's right. You don't need a defense in today's NFL, right Hater?

my bad.

wow....I can at least honestly say that you obviously don't read posts if you think I am the glass half empty or completely empty guy on this site moron. I am retty sure you are one of the ones who spent most of the last offseason calling me a homer, but again...whatever suits your present argument. I know you think you know something because you can copy and paste posts that are obvioulsy not yours. I used to think you had well thought out and informative posts, but after a dscussion with you it is painfully clear that you get your info from another source and pawn it off as your own. Yiou knowledge of football is mediocre at best and your fandom is not in the same class as any of the members on this site. You are a joke. You think you are speial, but we can all copy and paste my friend.

Canada
01-08-2008, 03:57 AM
says the town drunk

Showing your true class I see. :bananen_smilies046:

texaschief
01-08-2008, 04:26 AM
wow....I can at least honestly say that you obviously don't read posts if you think I am the glass half empty or completely empty guy on this site moron. I am retty sure you are one of the ones who spent most of the last offseason calling me a homer, but again...whatever suits your present argument. I know you think you know something because you can copy and paste posts that are obvioulsy not yours. I used to think you had well thought out and informative posts, but after a dscussion with you it is painfully clear that you get your info from another source and pawn it off as your own. Yiou knowledge of football is mediocre at best and your fandom is not in the same class as any of the members on this site. You are a joke. You think you are speial, but we can all copy and paste my friend.

aww, look at you getting all pissy. lol

and i'm the one taking cheap shots? lmao. you hypocrite. grow up.

The stuff i copy and paste is just stuff i found while i look for Chiefs info. i try to do the best i can to give credit to where i bring it from. But, whatever you say jackass.

hermhater
01-08-2008, 04:35 AM
aww, look at you getting all pissy. lol

and i'm the one taking cheap shots? lmao. you hypocrite. grow up.

The stuff i copy and paste is just stuff i found while i look for Chiefs info. i try to do the best i can to give credit to where i bring it from. But, whatever you say jackass.

You're hurting yourself man.

texaschief
01-08-2008, 04:53 AM
You're hurting yourself man.

i'm not going to sit here and let y'all talk sh#$ at or to me. i could care less what you two or three think about me. I bring inteligent real discussions and arguments and all i get from y'all is "Herm is a bad coach", "Carl sucks because he brought in Herm", "Herm hasn't drafted O-linemen, so he's a bad coach."

That's all y'all say. No research to support statements. No data to back your claims. nothing. then y'all call me an idiot and stupid and other B.S. to make you feel better about not presenting a valid argument.

I've said it before. I'm not here to impress anyone or make friends. I haven't attacked anyone, just defended myself.

But at some point i guess i should just realize there's no getting thru to people who think offense is king. Guess i should just remember the old saying, "offense wins championships."

hermhater
01-08-2008, 04:59 AM
i'm not going to sit here and let y'all talk sh#$ at or to me. i could care less what you two or three think about me. I bring inteligent real discussions and arguments and all i get from y'all is "Herm is a bad coach", "Carl sucks because he brought in Herm", "Herm hasn't drafted O-linemen, so he's a bad coach."

That's all y'all say. No research to support statements. No data to back your claims. nothing. then y'all call me an idiot and stupid and other B.S. to make you feel better about not presenting a valid argument.

I've said it before. I'm not here to impress anyone or make friends. I haven't attacked anyone, just defended myself.

But at some point i guess i should just realize there's no getting thru to people who think offense is king. Guess i should just remember the old saying, "offense wins championships."

Y'all is killing you man.

How many SB's have been won by low scoring offenses lately?

rbedgood
01-08-2008, 05:11 AM
TexasChiefs,

You've brought some valid points on the player personnel side. I don't think you were referring to me as the "Herm-hating" crowd...I'm just happy he's not in SF.

However I do agree with the rest of the general population here that Herm is on the inept side. Carl should get much of the blame for the lack of talent at many positions (especially O-line)

However someone mentioned that Roaf and Shields were getting old...actually by the standards of O-linemen the greatest ones often have played late into their 30s and sometimes into their 40s. So to say they were expected to retire, I'd say not as soon as they did. (see Jackie Slater for example, played to 41)...both Roaf and Shields retired at 36.

As for who is making the decisions in the draft room, I'm guessing Herm has some heavy input at the very least. However their first round pick of Bowe last year was a decent pick. This draft is pretty rich in O-line talent, and they likely could fix the O-line between the draft and 1-2 FA pickups this year. Then you can find out if Croyle has a chance next year, and if he does, great you make a run for the playoffs...if he doesn't you're in position to draft Tebow next year, and have a line in place to protect him.

rbedgood
01-08-2008, 05:12 AM
Y'all is killing you man.

How many SB's have been won by low scoring offenses lately?

HH,

You're right you have to score...but you also have to be able to stop the other team...how many teams have won the Super Bowl with lousy defenses...STL is the only one I can think of...EVER!!!

Canada
01-08-2008, 07:23 AM
I've said it before. I'm not here to impress anyone or make friends. I haven't attacked anyone, just defended myself.

quote]

[quote=texaschief;61806]says the town drunk

You almost had 3 or 4 posts before contradicting yourself this time!! :sign0098: At least you didn't copy/paste this one!! :bananen_smilies046:

prough91
01-08-2008, 01:44 PM
How's copying and pasting making decent arguments.

Canada
01-08-2008, 01:54 PM
How's copying and pasting making decent arguments.

I never said he makes decent arguments

prough91
01-08-2008, 02:19 PM
I never said he makes decent arguments

He did.

chief31
01-22-2008, 09:56 PM
How was the defense before he got here?
CARL was the one who destroyed the offense. Herm kept Dick's staff. Carl didn't want to pay to keep Saunders. Herm has done NOTHING to the offense. It got old. Carl didn't draft correctly and you're seeing the result.

You say Herm hasn't drafted any O-linemen since he's been here, but what did Vermeil do? He asked Carl for a couple free agents...they traded a play-making WR for an OT, also allowed an All-Pro OT to leave in FA. Other than that, the line was in place. Hell, he didn't even want LJ!!

Please, show me another play maker Vermeil drafted as he built this "championship caliber offense." Don't forget, it did take him a couple years to build that offense. Hell, Herm has already done more for the offense in the draft than Vermeil EVER did. Two starting WRs, a starting QB and a #2 RB.

Herm has been a head coach for only a few seasons and you want to compare him to these long-tenured coaches like Cowher and Vermeil.

So, besides the old O-line, old QB and injured Super Star RB, what makes YOU think he won't make this team a winner? The Jets' offense sure as hell could run the ball when he was there. They couldn't ever throw because Pennington couldn't stay healthy...due to the O-line or whatever.

Herm and Carl have said they are rebuilding this O-line, so with a rebuilt O-line, a healthy LJ and Kolby Smith, D-Bowe and Gonzo and a (God willing) healthy QB, this offense will be fine as long as they get an OC who can call a good game.

They are having to rebuild this ENTIRE team. The defense was first and now they are going to the offensive side of the ball....and you know what? they probably won't be too great next year if they rebuild thru the draft like they said they will. The Chiefs need at least 3 O-linemen this offseason. If they're all rookies, it won't be pretty.

Rebuilding franchises takes growing pains and patients. Obviously not something you have. Hopefully, when they are a .500 team next season, Mr. Hunt will see the progress made and won't listen to fair weather fans and stick with Herm. Otherwise, in a few years, the new coach will be riding the wave Herm created.

Too bad Carl and Dick couldn't have drafted better to provide a more capable offense for Herm. But, that's what happens when you build thru Free Agency and not the draft. Just look at the 6 drafts before Herm:

2005

1 LB Derrick Johnson
3 P Dustin Colquitt-
4 WR Craphonso Thorpe-
5 LB Boomer Grigsby
5 CB Alphonso Hodge
6 T Will Svitek
6 DE Khari Long
7 QB James Kilian
7 T Jeremy Parquet

2004

2 DT Junior Siavii
2 TE Kris Wilson
3 LB Keyaron Fox
4 WR Samie Parker
4 DE Jared Allen
6 WR Jeris McIntyre
7 T Kevin Sampson

2003

1 RB Larry Johnson
2 LB Kawika Mitchell
3 DB Julian Battle
4 T Brett Williams
5 T Jordan Black
6 DE Jimmy Wilkerson
7 DT Montique Sharpe
7 S Willie Pile

2002

1 DT Ryan Sims
2 DT Eddie Freeman
4 RB Omar Easy
5 LB Scott Fujita
7 LB Maurice Rodriguez

2001

3 DT Eric Downing
3 WR Marvin Minnis
4 DE Monty Beisel
4 RB George Layne
5 TE Billy Baber
5 RB Derrick Blaylock
6 G Alex Sulfsted
7 DB Shaunard Harts
7 DT Terdell Sands

2000

1 WR Sylvester Morris
2 DB William Bartee
3 DB Greg Wesley
4 RB Frank Moreau
5 RB Dante Hall
5 DB Pat Dennis
6 G Darnell Alford
7 WR Desmond Kitchings

In summary you see 5 remaining starters from 46 draft picks.

Compared to Herm's 2 drafts which brought in:

2007

1 WR Dwayne Bowe
2 DT Turk McBride
3 DT Tank Tyler
4 RB Kolby Smith
5 K Justin Medlock
6 OT Herbert Taylor
7 TE Michael Allen

2006

1 DE Tamba Hali
2 S Bernard Pollard
3 QB Brodie Croyle
5 CB Marcus Maxey
6 G Tre Stallings
6 WR Jeff Webb
7 S Jarrad Page

7 starters from 14 picks.

Please explain to me how when you're inheriting a team who has a total of 5 remaining players from the previous 6 drafts, you're going to make them a championship caliber team in 2 seasons. In no way, shape or form is the lack of talent on this team Herman Edward's fault. Dick Vermeil left him with a team who had a 9% hit rate in the draft and took it to a 50% hit rate in the last two seasons...and that's not including contributing players like Tank, Turk and possibly Tre Stallings.

While there was an obvious focus in the draft the past two years toward defense, (well besides the 8 of 14 offensive draft picks) it's not like the defense didn't need to be fixed first. They were in the basement long before the offense was and was in desperate need of a talent infusion.

Now that the offense is in desperate need of attention, I'm sure there will be more of a focus on that side of the ball....

Just give it time. success in the NFL doesn't come over night or by changing Head Coaches every other season.

You may not like keeping these comparisons fair, but...

Each of the guys that I have highlighted with red has made significant contributions to their team this season. Many of them started some games, and a couple, at least, were season-long starters.

Also, to compare a player six years after he was drafted, to a player who was drafted last season, isn't quite fair is it? You aren't giving Herms draftees much of a chance to fail.

After one to two seasons, many of those players were still playing. Just like most of Herms draftees are now.

texaschief
01-23-2008, 01:57 AM
2005

1 LB Derrick Johnson
3 P Dustin Colquitt-
4 WR Craphonso Thorpe-
5 LB Boomer Grigsby
5 CB Alphonso Hodge
6 T Will Svitek
6 DE Khari Long
7 QB James Kilian
7 T Jeremy Parquet

2004

2 DT Junior Siavii
2 TE Kris Wilson
3 LB Keyaron Fox
4 WR Samie Parker
4 DE Jared Allen
6 WR Jeris McIntyre
7 T Kevin Sampson

2003

1 RB Larry Johnson
2 LB Kawika Mitchell
3 DB Julian Battle
4 T Brett Williams
5 T Jordan Black
6 DE Jimmy Wilkerson
7 DT Montique Sharpe
7 S Willie Pile

2002

1 DT Ryan Sims
2 DT Eddie Freeman
4 RB Omar Easy
5 LB Scott Fujita
7 LB Maurice Rodriguez

2001

3 DT Eric Downing
3 WR Marvin Minnis
4 DE Monty Beisel
4 RB George Layne
5 TE Billy Baber
5 RB Derrick Blaylock
6 G Alex Sulfsted
7 DB Shaunard Harts
7 DT Terdell Sands

2000

1 WR Sylvester Morris
2 DB William Bartee
3 DB Greg Wesley
4 RB Frank Moreau
5 RB Dante Hall
5 DB Pat Dennis
6 G Darnell Alford
7 WR Desmond Kitchings

In summary you see 5 remaining starters from 46 draft picks.

Compared to Herm's 2 drafts which brought in:

2007

1 WR Dwayne Bowe
2 DT Turk McBride
3 DT Tank Tyler
4 RB Kolby Smith
5 K Justin Medlock
6 OT Herbert Taylor
7 TE Michael Allen

2006

1 DE Tamba Hali
2 S Bernard Pollard
3 QB Brodie Croyle
5 CB Marcus Maxey
6 G Tre Stallings
6 WR Jeff Webb
7 S Jarrad Page
You may not like keeping these comparisons fair, but...

Each of the guys that I have highlighted with red has made significant contributions to their team this season. Many of them started some games, and a couple, at least, were season-long starters.

Also, to compare a player six years after he was drafted, to a player who was drafted last season, isn't quite fair is it? You aren't giving Herms draftees much of a chance to fail.

After one to two seasons, many of those players were still playing. Just like most of Herms draftees are now.
**************************
OK, let's play:

Craphonso Thorpe-12 rec. 70 yds. 1TD in 5/16 games
wow....a real contributer there. With a QB like Peyton Manning, he should've been able to post more than that, don't you think? If he was any good, he'd still be here and not starting only 5 games for the Colts who were dealing with WR injuries.
Boomer Grigsby- 2 rec. 14yds 0TD in 14/16 games
I know you can't really rely on stats for Fullbacks, but we all know he wasn't much of an impact on this team and he's probably going to get cut this next season.
Will Svitek-13 games
A part of our HORRIBLE O-line this season. If not for injuries, he wouldn't have started ONE game this year if not for injuries. Can't wait to see his contribution next season!!! ....oh, wait.
Kris Wilson- 24 rec. 180 yds 1TD 2 fum in 16/16 games.
I've always thought he was a good talent. But he's stuck behind Gonzo. He's a TE, not a FB. But, really? Did he REALLY contribute to this team THAT much?
Keyeron Fox- 21tckls 19solo 2 ast. in 11/16 games ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!! the guy has only had 83 tackles his entire 4 year career!! 21 tackles is contributing?!!!
Kevin Sampson-LMFAO!!! Kevin Sampson didn't even play one game this year
Kawika Mitchell- 76tkls 54solo 22asst 3.5sacks 1INT 1TD in 16/16
My bad...i missed one. Too bad we let him go and we're stuck with Harris and his 116 tackles instead.
Jordan Black- played in 8 games
.....and he was SO great here too....what the hell were we thinking? Where the hell did he get his nickname, "I-65" from again?
Jimmy Wilkerson-23tkls 19solo 4ast in 16/16 games
wow....what a beast....thank god he's a starter for us....oh, wait.
Scott Fujita- 94tkls 76solo 18ast in 16/16 games
He had a great year. I'm glad we got compensation for him.
Gregg Wesley-30tkls 28solo 2ast 0ints in 16/16 games
Too bad we're stuck with Herm replacement in Page who had 59tkls 43solo 16ast 3ints in 17/17 games.
Dante Hall-WR 5rec 27yds PR 19/286 1TD KR 29/729 in 7 games.
He had a great career for us but he was hardly a solid contributer for the Rams.

BTW, where were your highlights from the 2001 draft?

LET'S MAKE THIS FAIR THOUGH:
Dwayne Bowe-70rec 995yds 5tds in 16/16games
gee, wish we still had Craphonso Thorpe
Kolby Smith-112car 407yds 2TDs in 9/16 games
Not a bad rookie season. IMO. Started 6 games as a rookie
Tamba Hali-59tkls 46solo 13ast 7.5sacks in 16/16 games
Too bad Jimmy Wilkerson isn't the starter, huh?
Brodie Croyle-127/224 1227yds 56.7cmp% 6TD 6INT 69.9RAT in 10/16 games.
The obvious future at the QB position. Too bad he couldn't stay healthy all season.
Jeff Webb-28rec 313yds 1TD in 16/16 games.
...if only we still had Thorpe. By far better numbers than Webb's rookie season....wait, my bad.
Bernard Pollard-90tkls 74solo 16ast 1sack 2INT in 16/16 games.
Another safety who just didn't belong starting in front of Greg Wesley.

So, i didn't highlight Mitchell and Fujita...my bad. Honestly, i thought Fujita was hurt all season. Mitchell is still a mediocre LB and i'm glad we have Harris instead.

texaschief
01-23-2008, 02:13 AM
If Thorpe can "contribute" with numbers like those, who on my list will (barring injury) will not be contributing 6 years down the road (not including Croyle)?

chief31
01-23-2008, 02:30 AM
Either way you want to look at some of those guys, like Webb, who managed a bench players stats while starting most of the year, none of those players has been given seven years to fail yet.

As I said, go back to each of the Vermiel draftees' second season and then make your comparisons.

Another thing that I dislike about this comparison is that just because Herm is playing his young draftees doesn't mean that they are good enough to be starting. It just means that Herm wants them on the field.

You are quick to discredit Jordan Black because you don't think he is very good, but then you highlight Jeff Webb? Well, if Webb gets credit for playing time, then so does Black.

Then you go and dig for reasons to discredit others, like Dante Hall. Hall had a PR Avg of 15.1. That is good enough to rank third in the NFL. He also had a KR Avg of 25.1, which is good enough for twelvth in the NFL.

That makes him more valuable than Webb, to me.

Another one would be Wesley. How about comparing what Wesley did last season, when he was allowed to start, over what Page did this season. (Which will not include his many missed tackles, nor how often he blew deep coverage.)

All of a sudden, Pages numbers don't look so fantastic.

Page: 59 tackles; 43 solo; 3 ints.

Wesley: 70 tackles; 65 solo; 3 ints.

Just because Herm forced his guy onto the field, doesn't mean that he was the better player.

But, ok, you go right on ahead with discreditting the other guys, to exaggerate your point. It's cool.

texaschief
01-23-2008, 02:36 AM
Either way you want to look at some of those guys, like Webb, who managed a bench players stats while starting most of the year, none of those players has been given seven years to fail yet.

As I said, go back to each of the Vermiel draftees' second season and then make your comparisons.

Another thing that I dislike about this comparison is that just because Herm is playing his young draftees doesn't mean that they are good enough to be starting. It just means that Herm wants them on the field.

You are quick to discredit Jordan Black because you don't think he is very good, but then you highlight Jeff Webb? Well, if Webb gets credit for playing time, then so does Black.

Then you go and dig for reasons to discredit others, like Dante Hall. Hall had a PR Avg of 15.1. That is good enough to rank third in the NFL. He also had a KR Avg of 25.1, which is good enough for twelvth in the NFL.

That makes him more valuable than Webb, to me.

Another one would be Wesley. How about comparing what Wesley did last season, when he was allowed to start, over what Page did this season. (Which will not include his many missed tackles, nor how often he blew deep coverage.)

All of a sudden, Pages numbers don't look so fantastic.

Page: 59 tackles; 43 solo; 3 ints.

Wesley: 70 tackles; 65 solo; 3 ints.

Just because Herm forced his guy onto the field, doesn't mean that he was the better player.

But, ok, you go right on ahead with discreditting the other guys, to exaggerate your point. It's cool.

You're right. All of Vermeil's guys should be starting....especially that '01 class. You're right about Hall though. Good thing we got rid of him, huh? All he did was dance around the last two seasons here, then played only 7 games this season.

I was comparing Webb to Thorpe. You know, apples to apples...but if you wanna compare him to an OT, go ahead, that's relevant. lol

hermhater
01-23-2008, 02:39 AM
Either way you want to look at some of those guys, like Webb, who managed a bench players stats while starting most of the year, none of those players has been given seven years to fail yet.

As I said, go back to each of the Vermiel draftees' second season and then make your comparisons.

Another thing that I dislike about this comparison is that just because Herm is playing his young draftees doesn't mean that they are good enough to be starting. It just means that Herm wants them on the field.

You are quick to discredit Jordan Black because you don't think he is very good, but then you highlight Jeff Webb? Well, if Webb gets credit for playing time, then so does Black.

Then you go and dig for reasons to discredit others, like Dante Hall. Hall had a PR Avg of 15.1. That is good enough to rank third in the NFL. He also had a KR Avg of 25.1, which is good enough for twelvth in the NFL.

That makes him more valuable than Webb, to me.

Another one would be Wesley. How about comparing what Wesley did last season, when he was allowed to start, over what Page did this season. (Which will not include his many missed tackles, nor how often he blew deep coverage.)

All of a sudden, Pages numbers don't look so fantastic.

Page: 59 tackles; 43 solo; 3 ints.

Wesley: 70 tackles; 65 solo; 3 ints.

Just because Herm forced his guy onto the field, doesn't mean that he was the better player.

But, ok, you go right on ahead with discreditting the other guys, to exaggerate your point. It's cool.

I'm still hoping Pollard and Page are the next big thing on D!

What else do I have to look forward to with Herm at the helm?

hermhater
01-23-2008, 02:40 AM
You're right. All of Vermeil's guys should be starting....especially that '01 class. You're right about Hall though. Good thing we got rid of him, huh? All he did was dance around the last two seasons here, then played only 7 games this season.

I was comparing Webb to Thorpe. You know, apples to apples...but if you wanna compare him to an OT, go ahead, that's relevant. lol


Quite saying Herm has made good decisions!!!!

He is unable!!!

:mob:

texaschief
01-23-2008, 02:41 AM
What else do I have to look forward to with Herm at the helm?

Apparently a bunch more top 5 draft picks for Cower to play with.

texaschief
01-23-2008, 02:42 AM
Quite saying Herm has made good decisions!!!!

He is unable!!!

:mob:

yeah, Bowe, Hali, Page, Pollard, Smith....they all suck.

hermhater
01-23-2008, 02:50 AM
yeah, Bowe, Hali, Page, Pollard, Smith....they all suck.

I'll give you Bowe, Page, and Pollard!

I am still not impressed with Hali!

texaschief
01-23-2008, 03:06 AM
I'll give you Bowe, Page, and Pollard!

I am still not impressed with Hali!

If Hali gained some weight and played DT this next season, we could draft C. Long with the #5 pick and have a dominant DLine this season. I'm just affraid Hali is too small to play inside. But i think he's a pretty good DE.

Tamba Hali's First 2 Seasons
Defense Stats
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST SACK
2006 KAN 16 63 45 18 8
2007 KAN 16 59 46 13 8
Career 32 122 91 31 16

Jared Allen's First 2 Seasons
Defense Stats
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST SACK
2004 KAN 15 31 29 2 9
2005 KAN 16 58 51 7 11

Hali had 32 more tackles and one less sack in year 1.
Hali had 1 more tackle and 3 less sacks in year 2.

If you believe Allen is the best DE in the league, i don't understand your problem with Hali except that you can't give credit to Herm for ANYTHING.

chief31
01-23-2008, 04:07 AM
You're right. All of Vermeil's guys should be starting....especially that '01 class. You're right about Hall though. Good thing we got rid of him, huh? All he did was dance around the last two seasons here, then played only 7 games this season.

I was comparing Webb to Thorpe. You know, apples to apples...but if you wanna compare him to an OT, go ahead, that's relevant. lol

All Hall did was dance around... and get decent averages in his return columns, whereas noone else has been able to even approach that kind of productivity here since.

You can compare whoever you want. But, you were crediting Webb as a player who played this season. Regardless of position, that comparison can be made to any player who played this season. The comparison that you started, was for draftees that are playing, and even starting.

So, it is quite relevant for me to compare a player that you origionaly highlighted as being a productive player from the side that you argue for (Herms drafting ability), against a player that you discredited as nonproductive, from the other side of the argument.


If Hali gained some weight and played DT this next season, we could draft C. Long with the #5 pick and have a dominant DLine this season. I'm just affraid Hali is too small to play inside. But i think he's a pretty good DE.

Tamba Hali's First 2 Seasons
Defense Stats
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST SACK
2006 KAN 16 63 45 18 8
2007 KAN 16 59 46 13 8
Career 32 122 91 31 16

Jared Allen's First 2 Seasons
Defense Stats
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST SACK
2004 KAN 15 31 29 2 9
2005 KAN 16 58 51 7 11

Hali had 32 more tackles and one less sack in year 1.
Hali had 1 more tackle and 3 less sacks in year 2.

If you believe Allen is the best DE in the league, i don't understand your problem with Hali except that you can't give credit to Herm for ANYTHING.

I don't dislike Hali by any means. But when you draft a guy in the first round, you have certain expectations. He shouldn't be getting compared to what a fifth-round draftee did in his first two seasons.

Allen wasn't viewed as a starter right out of the gates, but a situational player. He may have played in most games, but was not getting the lions share of playing time.

Hali is not a speed-rusher. He is not going to get to the qb alot. Most of his sacks come from the qb getting pressured out of the pocket by Jared Allen.

It is still a testement that he does get the sacks that he does, but his real value is as a run defender.

One more thing about that comparison is that Jared Allen does alot of things that don't get noticed as much as sacks and tackles. Such as qb hurries, qb knockdowns, forced fumbles( Hali has done well here.), fumble recoveries, passes batted down, etc. Hali does a lot less of these things.

Again, I like Hali, but do not see haim as some raging success story of a first round draft pick.

prough91
01-23-2008, 05:18 PM
Why don't they try Parker as KR/PR? Isn't he supposed to be the fastest guy we have or did I hear wrong?

hermhater
01-23-2008, 05:52 PM
Why don't they try Parker as KR/PR? Isn't he supposed to be the fastest guy we have or did I hear wrong?

I said that at the beginning of the friggin' season, but they don't listen to me because I hate Herm.

texaschief
01-23-2008, 06:14 PM
with that 35 million burning a hole in our pocket, is there any interest out there in aquiring Shaun Rogers? Word out of Detroit is that he's gonna be released. He's been a beast!!!

hermhater
01-23-2008, 06:18 PM
with that 35 million burning a hole in our pocket, is there any interest out there in aquiring Shaun Rogers? Word out of Detroit is that he's gonna be released. He's been a beast!!!




On October 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_18), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006), Rogers was suspended four games for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy. His agent has stated that Rogers' appetite suppressant medication was the reason for his positive test, but that appealing wouldn't help the situation. [1] (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/SPORTS01/610180348/1049/SPORTS) Rogers is widely considered one of the best defensive tackles in the league, and is superb at blocking kicks, having stopped the most in the league (11) since 1991. On November 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_4), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007), Rogers intercepted a pass from Denver Broncos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Broncos) quarterback Patrick Ramsey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Ramsey) for a 66-yard interception return touchdown. This interception was Rogers' second of his career.



Sounds great to me!!!!



Do it Carl!

DrunkHillbilly
01-23-2008, 06:23 PM
with that 35 million burning a hole in our pocket, is there any interest out there in aquiring Shaun Rogers? Word out of Detroit is that he's gonna be released. He's been a beast!!!
Last I saw/heard was that he was out of shape and not willing to practice like the rest of the team. This is one of the reasons he isn't wanted anymore.

texaschief
01-23-2008, 06:30 PM
Sounds great to me!!!!



Do it Carl!

What if we signed Rogers, Briggs, Samuel and then drafted Dorsey with the #5 pick. Then, drafted an O-lineman in the 2nd and perhaps 3rd while signing Lilja and one other OL in FA.

Then later in the draft we get WRs and CBs and more OLinemen.

yep...sounds good to me. Could you imagine that D-Line? OMG!! lol

DrunkHillbilly
01-23-2008, 06:47 PM
What if we signed Rogers, Briggs, Samuel and then drafted Dorsey with the #5 pick. Then, drafted an O-lineman in the 2nd and perhaps 3rd while signing Lilja and one other OL in FA.

Then later in the draft we get WRs and CBs and more OLinemen.

yep...sounds good to me. Could you imagine that D-Line? OMG!! lol
We should still be ok in the money dept after those then we can go after Tom Brady, Reggie Wayne and Wes Welker!!!!:lol:

texaschief
01-23-2008, 06:51 PM
We should still be ok in the money dept after those then we can go after Tom Brady, Reggie Wayne and Wes Welker!!!!:lol:

lol....just because you HAVE the money.....:lol: :lol:

peekaboo224
01-24-2008, 01:48 AM
Are those season tickets still available? We don't need Chad here - we need a young talented quarterback and some other players to be contenders again.

hermhater
01-24-2008, 01:52 AM
Are those season tickets still available? We don't need Chad here - we need a young talented quarterback and some other players to be contenders again.

We are contenders!!!


Every year!

Woot!

chief31
01-24-2008, 02:04 AM
Why don't they try Parker as KR/PR? Isn't he supposed to be the fastest guy we have or did I hear wrong?

Sammie Parker would get torn in half, returning kicks. He just doesn't have any instict when running with the ball. Plus, how many muffed punts do you think he would have?

hermhater
01-24-2008, 02:08 AM
Sammie Parker would get torn in half, returning kicks. He just doesn't have any instict when running with the ball. Plus, how many muffed punts do you think he would have?

Well I was hoping he could catch a punt. It is easier to catch a punt than a pass.

Chiefster
01-24-2008, 05:11 AM
Sounds great to me!!!!



Do it Carl!

He won't.


















That is all.

Pro_Angler
01-24-2008, 10:10 PM
cHAD ISN'T GOING TO kc HE WAS ALREADY PICKED UP i BELIEVE.

hermhater
01-25-2008, 12:18 AM
cHAD ISN'T GOING TO kc HE WAS ALREADY PICKED UP i BELIEVE.

Last I heard he was gonna return to the Jets.

Chiefster
01-25-2008, 07:53 AM
cHAD ISN'T GOING TO kc HE WAS ALREADY PICKED UP i BELIEVE.

Typing with caps lock on again I see. :p

Canada
01-25-2008, 08:02 AM
Typing with caps lock on again I see. :p

Still pointing out the obvious are we?? :lol:

Chiefster
01-25-2008, 08:53 AM
Still pointing out the obvious are we?? :lol:


I did not earn the title of Captain Obvious for nothing.

garciakcfan
01-26-2008, 01:13 AM
Seems like the thread calmed down a little bit.. Texas I totally agree with what you're saying about a pass happy offense and some people on here just dont get it... And will argue to there bone about how "exciting" the chiefs were when vermeil was here even though he totally neglected the Defense. I gotta say that bringing in Kendrell Bell and signing him to a bunch of money was another great move by vermeil. Its nice to read threads of people that share the same intelligent football thinking

hermhater
01-26-2008, 01:55 AM
Seems like the thread calmed down a little bit.. Texas I totally agree with what you're saying about a pass happy offense and some people on here just dont get it... And will argue to there bone about how "exciting" the chiefs were when vermeil was here even though he totally neglected the Defense. I gotta say that bringing in Kendrell Bell and signing him to a bunch of money was another great move by vermeil. Its nice to read threads of people that share the same intelligent football thinking

OK guy, how many 13-3 seasons did the Chiefs have in the last 20 years. How was the offense doing then?

Kind of sucks to run in to Peyton Manning (or even freakin' Eli nowadays) in the playoffs.

You don't have any intelligent football posting, you only like to get a rise out of people.

:bananen_smilies046:

Chiefster
01-26-2008, 03:29 AM
Less filling!






Look there are valid football points made on both sides of the issue here; don't let this become personal.

hermhater
01-26-2008, 03:33 AM
Less filling!






Look there are valid football points made on both sides of the issue here; don't let this become personal.

I already told you it tastes great!

:11:

chief31
01-26-2008, 05:09 AM
Seems like the thread calmed down a little bit.. Texas I totally agree with what you're saying about a pass happy offense and some people on here just dont get it... And will argue to there bone about how "exciting" the chiefs were when vermeil was here even though he totally neglected the Defense. I gotta say that bringing in Kendrell Bell and signing him to a bunch of money was another great move by vermeil. Its nice to read threads of people that share the same intelligent football thinking

It is really as simple as it sounds. Offense is where a team is trying to score points, while defense is where a team tries to keep the opponents from scoring points.

To use your offense as a defense, is about as wise as counting on your defense to do the scoring. ( do it sparingly, not philosophically.)

Also, if your defense is as bad as can possibly be, let's say always allows a TD on the first play, Your team still has a chance of winning, by simply matching those TDs, and being the last team to score.

Whereas, the reverse isn't true. If you have the worst offense imaginable, the best that your team can hope for is a couple of tie games. When you have zero on the scoreboard, that is exactly your chances of winning the game.

Obviously, those are both exaggerations of what is actually possible, but it shows how a horrible offense cannot really be countered with a great defense, the way that a horrible defense can be countered by a great offense.

So, if you are going to cripple one side of the ball, then I prefer that you cripple the side that I can concievably overcome.

Add in the way that the NFL rules are rewarding pass-happy offenses, while penalizing teams that revolve around defense and the running game, It kinda suggest that only a moron would want their team to be a "ball-control" offense. That or someone who doesn't want their team to win much.

Speaking of Herms "ball control offense"...

In 2005, the Vermiel offense was 3rd in the NFL in T.O.P. (Time Of Possession) while Herms "ball-control offense" ranked dead last (32nd).

In '04, Herm had his only good year, in regards to this statistic. His team was 3rd, while Vermiels was 4th.

In '03, Herm 26th, D.V. 21st.

In '02, Herm 26th, D.V. 22nd.

But, as what Herm seems to view as the secondary directive of an offense...

In '05, DV 6th in Points, with Herm at 29th.

In '04, DV 2nd, Herm 17th.

In '03, DV 1st, Herm 24th.

'02, DV 1st, Herm 15th.

Suggesting that Herms "ball-control offense" is the right way to go appears to be random babbling, as opposed to an idea that includes any thought.

garciakcfan
01-26-2008, 12:24 PM
Thats because it didnt take teams long to score on us DUH??? Obviously, our offense would have the ball longer. I just dont agree with pass happy offense thats all. If you play sound defense and not turn the ball over than you can win a lot of games. And i think that is Herms philosophy. And there is something wrong with that?? The giants could have beaten new england a few weeks ago but Eli threw a int at a critical time in the game..

hermhater
01-26-2008, 01:18 PM
Thats because it didnt take teams long to score on us DUH??? Obviously, our offense would have the ball longer. I just dont agree with pass happy offense thats all. If you play sound defense and not turn the ball over than you can win a lot of games. And i think that is Herms philosophy. And there is something wrong with that?? The giants could have beaten new england a few weeks ago but Eli threw a int at a critical time in the game..


And then we went right down the field and scored against the opposing team!

I seem to remember hearing a moron named Herm saying those very things, and he doesn't win very many games...

Hayvern
01-26-2008, 01:47 PM
Seems like the thread calmed down a little bit.. Texas I totally agree with what you're saying about a pass happy offense and some people on here just dont get it... And will argue to there bone about how "exciting" the chiefs were when vermeil was here even though he totally neglected the Defense. I gotta say that bringing in Kendrell Bell and signing him to a bunch of money was another great move by vermeil. Its nice to read threads of people that share the same intelligent football thinking

I don't care two sheets about exciting, I care about wins. What some fail to realize is if you stack your offense on one side of the game and not the other, you make it easy for the opposing defense to shut you down.

I think if you surveyed most of us, you will find that is what we dislike about the whole run-run-run-punt way of thinking with Edwards. There are a lot of reasons why we had one of the worse offenses in the NFL, but not least of which is Edwards and his conservative ball control way of playing.

I am all for running the ball down the defense's throat, but I also know that eventually you have to go to the air in order to keep them honest. We rarely did that this year, and when we did, I think we had about as much success as our limited talent could provide.

chief31
01-26-2008, 01:48 PM
Thats because it didnt take teams long to score on us DUH??? Obviously, our offense would have the ball longer. I just dont agree with pass happy offense thats all. If you play sound defense and not turn the ball over than you can win a lot of games. And i think that is Herms philosophy. And there is something wrong with that?? The giants could have beaten new england a few weeks ago but Eli threw a int at a critical time in the game..


Yup. What a great game to use as an example. The almighty running game of the Giants, (A whopping 79 yards in the game) as opposed to carelessly flinging the ball around, (251 yards, 4 TDs) really gave them a chance to win a game against the best team in the NFL. (By the way, the Pats managed a total of 44 rushing yards, to their 356 passing yards.)

So, obviously passing the ball frequently is way too risky in todays NFL. Maybe you could pass that information along to Tom Brady and those Manning boys.

As far as comparing those two offensive philosophies, you can just look at the actual data that is available.

Herm has inherited two good teams and ran them into the ground, while Vermiel took over three of the worst teams in the league, and took each of them to a better record than Herm has ever reached.

I am baffled at how this argument keeps getting raised.

I understand hoping that our current head coach finds success, but I don't get believing it. I will believe it when I see it. Until then, I can only look at what he has actually done.

hermhater
01-26-2008, 02:31 PM
Yup. What a great game to use as an example. The almighty running game of the Giants, (A whopping 79 yards in the game) as opposed to carelessly flinging the ball around, (251 yards, 4 TDs) really gave them a chance to win a game against the best team in the NFL. (By the way, the Pats managed a total of 44 rushing yards, to their 356 passing yards.)

So, obviously passing the ball frequently is way too risky in todays NFL. Maybe you could pass that information along to Tom Brady and those Manning boys.

As far as comparing those two offensive philosophies, you can just look at the actual data that is available.

Herm has inherited two good teams and ran them into the ground, while Vermiel took over three of the worst teams in the league, and took each of them to a better record than Herm has ever reached.

I am baffled at how this argument keeps getting raised.

I understand hoping that our current head coach finds success, but I don't get believing it. I will believe it when I see it. Until then, I can only look at what he has actually done.

Excellent points, all!

Rep!

garciakcfan
01-28-2008, 12:13 PM
It keeps getting raised because I am "baffled" how many people use this site to cry and whine about our team.. We sign Chan Galey and people already start complaining about that decision.. And then people start to complain about the other offensive hires.. WHAT TO YOU WANT????? Seriously??? You cry that Herm neglects the O side of the ball and then when he does something about it "Oh thats not good enough for me" or "Why didnt we sign this guy instead" "I think he is too run heavy" I just think its messed up that I have to defend my team against its own fans. I feel sorry for your wives...

Canada
01-28-2008, 12:59 PM
It keeps getting raised because I am "baffled" how many people use this site to cry and whine about our team.. We sign Chan Galey and people already start complaining about that decision.. And then people start to complain about the other offensive hires.. WHAT TO YOU WANT????? Seriously??? You cry that Herm neglects the O side of the ball and then when he does something about it "Oh thats not good enough for me" or "Why didnt we sign this guy instead" "I think he is too run heavy" I just think its messed up that I have to defend my team against its own fans. I feel sorry for your wives...

I was wondering why you were posting all this stuff about how negative we are about the team, but then I saw that you are from Buffalo and that explains a lot. Look at it this way...last year our offense SUCKED. If you disagree with that then you obviously did not watch the season. Then in the offseason we did not even interview the best possible candidate for the OC position in Cam Cameron. Don't g me wrong, I am not down on Gailey and I hope he does well, but if he does not then I think every fan on this site has the right to second guess the decision of hastily hiring Gailey (IMO) I am not sure what other "offensive hires" you are referring to and who is being negative about them. As far as feeling sorry for people wives....leave those comments out of it and you might not sound like such an ***!! :bananen_smilies046:

DrunkHillbilly
01-28-2008, 02:04 PM
Yup. What a great game to use as an example. The almighty running game of the Giants, (A whopping 79 yards in the game) as opposed to carelessly flinging the ball around, (251 yards, 4 TDs) really gave them a chance to win a game against the best team in the NFL. (By the way, the Pats managed a total of 44 rushing yards, to their 356 passing yards.)

So, obviously passing the ball frequently is way too risky in todays NFL. Maybe you could pass that information along to Tom Brady and those Manning boys.

As far as comparing those two offensive philosophies, you can just look at the actual data that is available.

Herm has inherited two good teams and ran them into the ground, while Vermiel took over three of the worst teams in the league, and took each of them to a better record than Herm has ever reached.

I am baffled at how this argument keeps getting raised.

I understand hoping that our current head coach finds success, but I don't get believing it. I will believe it when I see it. Until then, I can only look at what he has actually done.

While I agree with a lot of what your saying, to play devils advocate, quite a few of those "passes" from Eli that you are referring to, were just little 2 yd dumps on screens to Jacobs. For the most part I agree though.

Chiefster
01-28-2008, 05:02 PM
It keeps getting raised because I am "baffled" how many people use this site to cry and whine about our team.. We sign Chan Galey and people already start complaining about that decision.. And then people start to complain about the other offensive hires.. WHAT TO YOU WANT????? Seriously??? You cry that Herm neglects the O side of the ball and then when he does something about it "Oh thats not good enough for me" or "Why didnt we sign this guy instead" "I think he is too run heavy" I just think its messed up that I have to defend my team against its own fans. I feel sorry for your wives...

We went 4-12, fans are gonna gripe until proven wrong; get over it. It doesn't make those who are griping less of a fan; it perhaps makes them unrealistic and impatient, but 19 years of Carl's five year plan to get to the Super Bowl has had that affect on many of the fan base. I respect your opinion and your right to express it; just know that because fans don't agree with the moves that are currently being made does not mean that they don't love this team every bit as much as you do. I admire your attitude and team spirit, but understand that right now my glass is half empty which is why I am trying to scale down my pessimistic point of view, but also understand that others believe their point of view to be every bit as valid as you believe yours to be.

So, lets agree to disagree and move on. :) :bananen_smilies046:

chief31
01-28-2008, 11:02 PM
It keeps getting raised because I am "baffled" how many people use this site to cry and whine about our team.. ...

How exactly does that justify bringing Vermiels offense into question?

garciakcfan
01-29-2008, 12:44 AM
Chief31 it just seems to me that people are just living in the past with vermeil. Yeah he brought us a great offense for a couple of years, he had his window of opportunity and didnt do anything for us. 13-3 and you lose to the colts at home?? And everyone is so quick to bash Herm after 2 years? I'm never going to convince anyone to look at the bright side of this situation with our team, because it just seems as though people are set on hateing Herm.. Which is ok but give the guy a freaking chance and then if he doesnt come through run em out of town.

Canada just because I live in Buffalo doesnt mean I possibly dont follow my team as much?? I watched every game this year on direct tv and do agree our offense looked horrible at times. I went to the game 2 1/2 years ago when we came here, to buffalo, and lost 14-3. Yeah, I dont get the Kansas City vibe because I dont live there and hopefully I can step into arrowhead one day but I support my team through thick and thin.

It half cracks me up and half ticks me off when I see people that love the same team as me talking so negative about it. Which they do have that right and so do I when it comes to playing the other side of it. We gotta go with what we have and right now thats Herms philospohy and Carl thats the way I look at it. So until changes are made I will support a run the ball first clock control team because I saw what the other guy did and it got us nowhere. And besides "defense wins championships"

YZILLA
01-29-2008, 01:33 AM
I agree with ya bro but Defense isnt whats gonna win this years championship. They are fair at best in New england, but the offense is whats keeping them winning the games. Example The crappy ravens beat the hell out of them .They made their defense look like a high school team. Keep in mind this is just my opinion, and offense is winning this year ! We had an awsome defense that kinda just gave up at the end of the year because of our offense not helping on their end ! we had the talent to win a championship this year but it was not used correctly . We stayed very close in scores to every team we played this year other than the donkeys game in denver.

Guru
01-29-2008, 01:34 AM
I agree with ya bro but Defense isnt whats gonna win this years championship. They are fair at best in New england, but the offense is whats keeping them winning the games. Example The crappy ravens beat the hell out of them .They made their defense look like a high school team. Keep in mind this is just my opinion, and offense is winning this year ! We had an awsome defense that kinda just gave up at the end of the year because of our offense not helping on their end ! we had the talent to win a championship this year but it was not used correctly . We stayed very close in scores to every team we played this year other than the donkeys game in denver.

Hey Clark!!!! Are you listening?

chief31
01-29-2008, 02:11 AM
Chief31 it just seems to me that people are just living in the past with vermeil. Yeah he brought us a great offense for a couple of years, he had his window of opportunity and didnt do anything for us. 13-3 and you lose to the colts at home?? And everyone is so quick to bash Herm after 2 years? I'm never going to convince anyone to look at the bright side of this situation with our team, because it just seems as though people are set on hateing Herm.. Which is ok but give the guy a freaking chance and then if he doesnt come through run em out of town.

It half cracks me up and half ticks me off when I see people that love the same team as me talking so negative about it. Which they do have that right and so do I when it comes to playing the other side of it. We gotta go with what we have and right now thats Herms philospohy and Carl thats the way I look at it. So until changes are made I will support a run the ball first clock control team because I saw what the other guy did and it got us nowhere. And besides "defense wins championships"

The thing is that Vermiel lacked a decent defense, now Herm lacks offensive drive. To bash the great offense, based on the poor defense that went with it isn't exactly fair.

The Patriots are showing us how it is done. Get both sides of the ball to do their part well. If you have a team with a great defense, yet no real offense, then you aren't going to win. Same goes for the opposite. Great offense, with a poor defense, gets you squat.

The saying that "defense wins championships" is no longer a valid concept. The league has made their choice, and offense is what now rules. The defense will never be awarded a fifty yard penalty, nor an automatic first (Fourth) down. The passing offense gets those ridiculous rewards. Not the running game.

As for bashing Herm after just two years, Many of us were bashing him as soon as he became the Chiefs head coach.

Reason being, is because he has a five year track-record, before he joined the Chiefs. So we aren't bashing Herm, based on two years. We are bashing him based on seven years as a head coach.

The fact of the matter is that most of us "Herm-haters" would love to like the guy. I think he is a pretty decent guy. I would be ecstatic if he were to prove my negativity wrong. I would become a huge Herm-supporter if that happened.

But until he either makes decisions that I feel are beneficial to the Chiefs, or finds great success with the decisions that he is making, then I will continue to take a frigid outlook on him.

As for being nagative about the team I love, I don't like feeling that way about the Chiefs, but a 4-12 record, with the 31st ranked offense in the NFL, has that effect:mob: on some people. I am just one of those people.

Feel free to continue being positive about our situation. It couldn't get a whole lot worse, so you are bound to have room for some "I told you so" in the future.

chief31
01-29-2008, 02:15 AM
with that 35 million burning a hole in our pocket, is there any interest out there in aquiring Shaun Rogers? Word out of Detroit is that he's gonna be released. He's been a beast!!!

Not sure how I missed this reply, but I watched several Lions games this season, and yes, Shaun Rogers is a bad man.

I'm not sure what it would take to aquire him, but I would be very happy to see him in a Chiefs uniform next season.

Chiefster
01-29-2008, 03:33 AM
Hey Clark!!!! Are you listening?

I think Clark is deaf.

Canada
01-29-2008, 08:16 AM
Canada just because I live in Buffalo doesnt mean I possibly dont follow my team as much?? I watched every game this year on direct tv and do agree our offense looked horrible at times. I went to the game 2 1/2 years ago when we came here, to buffalo, and lost 14-3. Yeah, I dont get the Kansas City vibe because I dont live there and hopefully I can step into arrowhead one day but I support my team through thick and thin.



I just know the attitude of most Buffalo area football fans adn you sound the same as the rest of them. Just because you are all rosy and upbeat and think there is nothing wrong with the team kinda leads me to believe that you really aren't paying attention. Herms record with the Chiefs 13-19. That is the guy that I am supposed to get all excited about? Carl maybe?? Sorry, I don't get excited just because the guy is here. I hear you talkin to people here like they are idiots for not agreeing with you when all you have done is tell me that Herm is doing a better job than Vermeil did (BTW up till now you have been the only one bringing up DV) Keep in mind the DV lost because of a lack of talent on defense. Herm has lost a lot of games due to bad coaching. I am not down on the team, I am waiting to see what happens in the draft. I don't think we are far off from becoming a good team next year, but the last 19 years have made me weary about what will probably happen. And don't worry about peoples fandom here. On opening day you will see me at Arrowhead leading the charge!!

I was at that 14-3 game in fubbalo too and had to fight my way outta that greasy stadium. :bananen_smilies046:

mxpxHERO
01-29-2008, 02:55 PM
i agree, fubbalo and its fans. :mob:

texaschief
01-29-2008, 03:58 PM
The saying that "defense wins championships" is no longer a valid concept.



hmm....i guess THAT'S why there were only 3 games that made it to the 30's in this years playoffs.

I've already posted it once before, so i'm not doing it again, but i posted a chart that showed ALL 12 playoff teams had a top 15 defense while only 8 teams had a top 15 offense.

BTW, it IS possible to score on the NE defense, but at the end of the regular season, they had the #1 defense in the league. In the playoffs, they've given up 20 and 12 respectively....and the Giants; do you really think it was the NY offense that got those guys to the Super Bowl when they only allowed 14, 17, and 20 in their playoff games? TWO of those games were against the 'Boys and the Pack....not exacltly horrible teams...hell, they had to go to OT to score 23 against GB.

hermhater
01-29-2008, 10:27 PM
I just know the attitude of most Buffalo area football fans adn you sound the same as the rest of them. Just because you are all rosy and upbeat and think there is nothing wrong with the team kinda leads me to believe that you really aren't paying attention. Herms record with the Chiefs 13-19. That is the guy that I am supposed to get all excited about? Carl maybe?? Sorry, I don't get excited just because the guy is here. I hear you talkin to people here like they are idiots for not agreeing with you when all you have done is tell me that Herm is doing a better job than Vermeil did (BTW up till now you have been the only one bringing up DV) Keep in mind the DV lost because of a lack of talent on defense. Herm has lost a lot of games due to bad coaching. I am not down on the team, I am waiting to see what happens in the draft. I don't think we are far off from becoming a good team next year, but the last 19 years have made me weary about what will probably happen. And don't worry about peoples fandom here. On opening day you will see me at Arrowhead leading the charge!!

I was at that 14-3 game in fubbalo too and had to fight my way outta that greasy stadium. :bananen_smilies046:

You're drunk!

:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
01-29-2008, 10:28 PM
hmm....i guess THAT'S why there were only 3 games that made it to the 30's in this years playoffs.

I've already posted it once before, so i'm not doing it again, but i posted a chart that showed ALL 12 playoff teams had a top 15 defense while only 8 teams had a top 15 offense.

BTW, it IS possible to score on the NE defense, but at the end of the regular season, they had the #1 defense in the league. In the playoffs, they've given up 20 and 12 respectively....and the Giants; do you really think it was the NY offense that got those guys to the Super Bowl when they only allowed 14, 17, and 20 in their playoff games? TWO of those games were against the 'Boys and the Pack....not exacltly horrible teams...hell, they had to go to OT to score 23 against GB.

You're drunk!

:bananen_smilies046:

chief31
01-30-2008, 01:58 AM
hmm....i guess THAT'S why there were only 3 games that made it to the 30's in this years playoffs.

I've already posted it once before, so i'm not doing it again, but i posted a chart that showed ALL 12 playoff teams had a top 15 defense while only 8 teams had a top 15 offense.

BTW, it IS possible to score on the NE defense, but at the end of the regular season, they had the #1 defense in the league. In the playoffs, they've given up 20 and 12 respectively....and the Giants; do you really think it was the NY offense that got those guys to the Super Bowl when they only allowed 14, 17, and 20 in their playoff games? TWO of those games were against the 'Boys and the Pack....not exacltly horrible teams...hell, they had to go to OT to score 23 against GB.

How many records has the NE defense broken this season? The highest scoring offense of all time says quite a bit for the Pats, if you ask me.

The fact remains that the NFL rewards passing offense.

chiefnationrepresentarmy
01-30-2008, 03:19 AM
here is a new twist on the mock.

Round 1

Mia - Glenn Dorsey DT (LSU)
StL - Jake Long OT (Michigan)
Atl - Darren McFadden RB (Arkansas)
Oak - Chris Long DE (Virginia)
KC - Matt Ryan QB (BC)
NYJ - Ryan Clady OT (Boise St.)


Round 2
Mia - Ray Maualuga MLB (USC)
StL - Bruce Davis OLB (UCLA)
Atl - Michael Oher OT (Mississippi)
Oak - Tony Hills Jr. OT (Texas)
KC - Gosder Cherilus OT (BC)
NYJ - Ray Rice RB (Rutgers)

Round 3

Mia - Leodis McKelvin CB (Troy St.)
StL - Branden Albert OG (Virginia)
KC - Jerod Mayo MLB (Tennessee)
NYJ - Chris Harrison DE (Texas A&M)

hmmmm!

Guru
01-30-2008, 03:35 AM
I think Clark is deaf.
What?!

chiefnationrepresentarmy
01-30-2008, 04:33 AM
stole that from a website. i dont think we will get a QB either but i was just sharing

chief31
01-30-2008, 11:10 AM
stole that from a website. i dont think we will get a QB either but i was just sharing

Yeah, alot of people think that a lack in offensive production means that you immediately draft a QB. Hopefully, Herm and Carl are not amongst them.

And I think that we are set at MLB for a few years.

chiefnationrepresentarmy
01-30-2008, 11:28 AM
i say we stick with brodie and get him some protection and let LJ, TG and DBOWE shine. plus we add some more talent. i think jeff webb will get better too. just needs some time with the starting O

chief31
01-30-2008, 11:37 AM
i say we stick with brodie and get him some protection and let LJ, TG and DBOWE shine. plus we add some more talent. i think jeff webb will get better too. just needs some time with the starting O

My philosophy on NFL football begins and ends with the lines. Offesive line, and defensive line.

If you can give your QB time and space to operate and get comfortable, then you can see if he CAN be good. If not, then it is difficult to say what you are looking at with your QB.

If your O-line opens holes and pushes the defense away from the line of scrimmage, then an average RB can look like an absolute stud. If not, then they can make Larry Johnson look like a flop.

If your defensive line can move offensive linemen into the backfield, and come off of their blocks, then the opposition has a very hard time running the ball. If not, then you will struggle to contain opposing RBs.

If your D-line can get to the QB quickly, and often, then the opposing QB will be in major trouble. Most QB fumbles and interceptions are caused by pressure.

chiefnationrepresentarmy
01-30-2008, 11:49 AM
from a different mock site:

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Jake Long, OT, Michigan http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/340.jpg
Matt Ryan is an option here, but Brodie Croyle is young and has looked semi-decent at times, so maybe the Chiefs will hold off on drafting a quarterback and give their young gun-slinger a year to prove himself. With that in mind, Jake Long is a no-brainer. Kansas City cannot afford to surrender 55 sacks against next year. That will change with Long anchoring the Chiefs' offensive front.

ROUND 2:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Tracy Porter, CB, Indiana http://walterfootball.com/college/Indiana_logo.gif
Ty Law and Patrick Surtain will both be over the age of 32 once the 2008 season commences.

Don't count out another offensive lineman here either, but at this point, I believe Tracy Porter is the best prospect out of anyone in that area.

Round 3:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Tony Hills, OT, Texas http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/341.jpg
Kyle Turley? Will Svitek? Seriously, this is what Carl Peterson came up with?

ROUND 4:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Harry Douglas, WR, Louisville http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/342.jpg
Brodie Croyle looked terrible last year, but one of the reasons for that may have been the fact that the Chiefs had nothing at receiver after Dwayne Bowe. As a rookie, Bowe recorded 995 yards. Ranking in at No. 2 was Jeff Webb, 313 yards. Yeeesh.

chiefnationrepresentarmy
01-30-2008, 11:51 AM
last one but here it is:


5. Kansas City Chiefs - Jake Long, OT, Michigan
Note: the Chiefs will pick at either #4 or #5.
This is certainly a best case scenario for the Chiefs. Kansas City had almost no luck running the ball in 2007; their 78.0 yards per game rushing average was dead last in the NFL. Larry Johnson's problems (holdout, injury) didn't help things, nor did Priest Holmes suffering a career-ending injury after the team traded Michael Bennett, but the lack of a top level offensive tackle has played a large part in the team's rushing difficulties.
There is a chance that Kansas City might go quarterback at this position, particularly if they end up drafting in front of Atlanta and have a shot at Matt Ryan, but with the pressure on the current administration in Kansas City to win now, taking a QB here as a developmental player doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. DE Jared Allen is an impending unrestricted free agent, and it's all but certain that the Chiefs will use the franchise tag on him. The Chiefs need a backup RB, but they can acquire that either via free agency or later in the draft, perhaps in round two or three.

chief31
01-30-2008, 12:07 PM
from a different mock site:

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Jake Long, OT, Michigan http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/340.jpg
Matt Ryan is an option here, but Brodie Croyle is young and has looked semi-decent at times, so maybe the Chiefs will hold off on drafting a quarterback and give their young gun-slinger a year to prove himself. With that in mind, Jake Long is a no-brainer. Kansas City cannot afford to surrender 55 sacks against next year. That will change with Long anchoring the Chiefs' offensive front.

ROUND 2:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Tracy Porter, CB, Indiana http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/341.jpg
Ty Law and Patrick Surtain will both be over the age of 32 once the 2008 season commences.

Don't count out another offensive lineman here either, but at this point, I believe Tracy Porter is the best prospect out of anyone in that area.

Round 3:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Tony Hills, OT, Texas http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/341.jpg
Kyle Turley? Will Svitek? Seriously, this is what Carl Peterson came up with?

ROUND 4:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Harry Douglas, WR, Louisville http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/342.jpg
Brodie Croyle looked terrible last year, but one of the reasons for that may have been the fact that the Chiefs had nothing at receiver after Dwayne Bowe. As a rookie, Bowe recorded 995 yards. Ranking in at No. 2 was Jeff Webb, 313 yards. Yeeesh.

Aside from Long, I can't see the Chiefs taking any of these guys. At least not at the spot that they have us taking them. I think the positions are right, but not the particular personell.

If it were me, I would pray for Jake Long in the first. In the event that Long is gone, I would hope to trade down, ut would have to considr taking DT Dorsey there.

Then, I would hope to find a top OG in the second. (Easily substituted, would be a second OT, to either play OG, or force Macintosh to OG.) Or an OT, if I didn't get Long in the first.

After that, The only remaining immediate need that I would have is at CB. So, I would hope to fill that need here, in and beyond the third round.

Obviously, there are situations where a player of very high value is available when I want to fill a particular need. Such as the Dorsey situation. But OT, OG/OT, then CB would be the direction that I would want to go.

rbedgood
02-01-2008, 01:26 PM
from a different mock site:

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Jake Long, OT, Michigan http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/340.jpg
Matt Ryan is an option here, but Brodie Croyle is young and has looked semi-decent at times, so maybe the Chiefs will hold off on drafting a quarterback and give their young gun-slinger a year to prove himself. With that in mind, Jake Long is a no-brainer. Kansas City cannot afford to surrender 55 sacks against next year. That will change with Long anchoring the Chiefs' offensive front.

ROUND 2:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Tracy Porter, CB, Indiana http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/341.jpg
Ty Law and Patrick Surtain will both be over the age of 32 once the 2008 season commences.

Don't count out another offensive lineman here either, but at this point, I believe Tracy Porter is the best prospect out of anyone in that area.

Round 3:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Tony Hills, OT, Texas http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/341.jpg
Kyle Turley? Will Svitek? Seriously, this is what Carl Peterson came up with?

ROUND 4:
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/339.jpg Kansas City Chiefs: Harry Douglas, WR, Louisville http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/342.jpg
Brodie Croyle looked terrible last year, but one of the reasons for that may have been the fact that the Chiefs had nothing at receiver after Dwayne Bowe. As a rookie, Bowe recorded 995 yards. Ranking in at No. 2 was Jeff Webb, 313 yards. Yeeesh.


Aside from Long, I can't see the Chiefs taking any of these guys. At least not at the spot that they have us taking them. I think the positions are right, but not the particular personell.

If it were me, I would pray for Jake Long in the first. In the event that Long is gone, I would hope to trade down, ut would have to considr taking DT Dorsey there.

Then, I would hope to find a top OG in the second. (Easily substituted, would be a second OT, to either play OG, or force Macintosh to OG.) Or an OT, if I didn't get Long in the first.

After that, The only remaining immediate need that I would have is at CB. So, I would hope to fill that need here, in and beyond the third round.

Obviously, there are situations where a player of very high value is available when I want to fill a particular need. Such as the Dorsey situation. But OT, OG/OT, then CB would be the direction that I would want to go.

Chief 31...

First of all, Hills (the project 3rd pick in this scenario) would likely project to play Guard in the NFL for at least the first few years of his career. So this scenario would give you an OT, OG & CB...the WR in the 4th if you have filled these other needs would be a great pickup. I actually like this mock for you guys....how likely it is I don't know....I doubt Hills falls to the 3rd round, but you never know on draft day.

chief31
02-02-2008, 01:26 AM
Chief 31...

First of all, Hills (the project 3rd pick in this scenario) would likely project to play Guard in the NFL for at least the first few years of his career. So this scenario would give you an OT, OG & CB...the WR in the 4th if you have filled these other needs would be a great pickup. I actually like this mock for you guys....how likely it is I don't know....I doubt Hills falls to the 3rd round, but you never know on draft day.

I like the positional picks here, but I A.) doubt that Hills makes it past the second round. B.) don't think that Porter is what Herm looks for in a CB. (I think he will have the final say in what DBs we take.) C.) I don't have a problem with the WR Douglas.

If this were to be what our actual first four rounds looked like, I would be pretty well satisfied. Give me this draft, and OT Max Starks from free agency, and I will likely get on board with Herms plan for awhile.:D

texaschief
02-02-2008, 02:01 AM
I like the positional picks here, but I A.) doubt that Hills makes it past the second round. B.) don't think that Porter is what Herm looks for in a CB. (I think he will have the final say in what DBs we take.) C.) I don't have a problem with the WR Douglas.

If this were to be what our actual first four rounds looked like, I would be pretty well satisfied. Give me this draft, and OT Max Starks from free agency, and I will likely get on board with Herms plan for awhile.:D

While i was the first to suggest Starks, i'm not so sure about pursuing him anymore. Max just had a serious knee injury and there's a chance he could fail to return to what he once was. Knee injuries by linemen are tricky to predict.

If it's an OT we want to sign in FA, Jordan Gross or Travelle Wharton from the Carolina Panthers would be nice aquisitions.

But if we move Waters to the Center spot, we've got to fill both Guard spots and at least one Tackle spot. Personally, I'd like to see us raid the Indy line and take both their Guards when they hit the market. Both Ryan Lilja and Jake Scott are 26 years old and are on their way up in their careers. Perhaps moving McIntosh to the right side would be enough if we bring in a first round OT.

But, if we are unable to bring in a tackle from the first round, we may need to look at the remaining OTs on the market. By that time, it may be too late to bring in someone with considerable talent. This would be the ONLY way i would want us to sign Starks. If he is still on the market AFTER the draft, which could be a high possibility because of his injury, then we should take a look at him if we fail to bring in a J. Long or any other first round tackle.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 10:10 AM
I just know the attitude of most Buffalo area football fans adn you sound the same as the rest of them. Just because you are all rosy and upbeat and think there is nothing wrong with the team kinda leads me to believe that you really aren't paying attention. Herms record with the Chiefs 13-19. That is the guy that I am supposed to get all excited about? Carl maybe?? Sorry, I don't get excited just because the guy is here. I hear you talkin to people here like they are idiots for not agreeing with you when all you have done is tell me that Herm is doing a better job than Vermeil did (BTW up till now you have been the only one bringing up DV) Keep in mind the DV lost because of a lack of talent on defense. Herm has lost a lot of games due to bad coaching. I am not down on the team, I am waiting to see what happens in the draft. I don't think we are far off from becoming a good team next year, but the last 19 years have made me weary about what will probably happen. And don't worry about peoples fandom here. On opening day you will see me at Arrowhead leading the charge!!

I was at that 14-3 game in fubbalo too and had to fight my way outta that greasy stadium. :bananen_smilies046:
Again what does me having to live in Buffalo have to do with anything??? I just moved here in August and I absolutely hate the bills. So please don't generalize me with the fans here thats an insult. I've never once said that there is nothing wrong with our team. It was pretty obvious this year and although I was, as always, optomistic about this year I knew it could have went either way. I'm just saying after 2 years Herm has addressed areas in need and it takes time to "Re-Build" a team. A lot of people want this to happen now and unfortunately it doesnt happen that way. Like I said if he doesnt make it happen in another 2 years or so then off with his head. But in the mean time give the guy a chance. Thats all

Canada
02-05-2008, 10:33 AM
Again what does me having to live in Buffalo have to do with anything??? I just moved here in August and I absolutely hate the bills. So please don't generalize me with the fans here thats an insult. I've never once said that there is nothing wrong with our team. It was pretty obvious this year and although I was, as always, optomistic about this year I knew it could have went either way. I'm just saying after 2 years Herm has addressed areas in need and it takes time to "Re-Build" a team. A lot of people want this to happen now and unfortunately it doesnt happen that way. Like I said if he doesnt make it happen in another 2 years or so then off with his head. But in the mean time give the guy a chance. Thats all

Herm has addressed some areas in need while completely ignoring significantly more important needs. (Our now lack of an O-line) If you don't have an O line your offense goes NOWHERE. That is like trying to rebuild a car and not put an engine in first. That is not good coaching from a career mediocre coach. I don't scream and yell about hating Herm. I could not care less about Herman Edwards. Am I happy that he is here right now?? Not really. Will I be happy if he wins a championship next season for us?? Absolutely. But please do not come in here bashing people and questioning peoples fandom because they have issues with a team that went 4-12. That is why I compare you to most people from buffalo. Cause you sound just like them!! :bananen_smilies046:

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 10:44 AM
He took the team to the playoffs last year!!!! And if he didnt draft and sign the defensive free agents we did get everbody would have been crying about that as well.. Do you not agree?? there were a lot of holes that needed to be filled and he did last year year, especially regarding our swiss cheese defense. Of course I'm going to question peoples fandom its my right. I'm not just gonna sit here and read negative statements about my team. Oh because we're fans its ok??? Sure, but its also my right as a fan to play the other side too. People in Buffalo are very very passionate about there teams. Hell they watched the bills lose 4 straight superbowls. The bills havent been to the playoffs in like 10 years. And they are going to have games in toronto (which is a damn shame for the NFL) Maybe its because I'm from NY and I don't sugar coat things that makes me brush people the wrong way. Well, get over it....

Canada
02-05-2008, 10:50 AM
He took the team to the playoffs last year!!!! And if he didnt draft and sign the defensive free agents we did get everbody would have been crying about that as well.. Do you not agree?? there were a lot of holes that needed to be filled and he did last year year, especially regarding our swiss cheese defense. Of course I'm going to question peoples fandom its my right. I'm not just gonna sit here and read negative statements about my team. Oh because we're fans its ok??? Sure, but its also my right as a fan to play the other side too. People in Buffalo are very very passionate about there teams. Hell they watched the bills lose 4 straight superbowls. The bills havent been to the playoffs in like 10 years. And they are going to have games in toronto (which is a damn shame for the NFL) Maybe its because I'm from NY and I don't sugar coat things that makes me brush people the wrong way. Well, get over it....

You don't SUGARCOAT it?? You are on peoples case about seeing a fault in a 4-12 team. What do you call that? You feel like you are a bigger fan cause you don't discuss faults with the team? Maybe I am a bigger fan cause I have more T shirts that you do so I should question your loyalty. It is your right to argue with people who disagree with your point of view, but to question their loyalty is weak. Call it passionate if you will but bashing fellow Chiefs fans dosen't make you sound like too big a fan!! :bananen_smilies046:

As far as fubbalo playing games in Toronto being a shame...I think it is a shame that they still play games in fubbalo at all.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 10:55 AM
So its ok that I bash the team I cheer for, and not ok to bash and question "fans" that talk trash about them?? Just want to make sure I got that right. Do you live like right across the rainbow bridge or something?? Seriously.. What do you have against buffalo. I think its a great town to live in.

Canada
02-05-2008, 11:04 AM
So its ok that I bash the team I cheer for, and not ok to bash and question "fans" that talk trash about them?? Just want to make sure I got that right. Do you live like right across the rainbow bridge or something?? Seriously.. What do you have against buffalo. I think its a great town to live in.

Who is bashing them?? You need to see the difference between pointing out facts and bashing. Like I said before....argue away, that is why we are all here. I just don't understand why you think that because people think our O line sucked last year, or our running game was ineffective is bashing the team. Take a look....our O line SUCKED and out running game was hopeless until we saw Kolby Smith. That ain't bashing, that is the truth weather you like it or not.
You question peoples loyalty when they are on a Chiefs website during the offseason after a 4-12 season. There are no more hardcore fans out their, except for you apparently. You can have fubbalo and the mostly ignorant inbred F#%@s who call themselves fans. Yes I live right across the Rainbow bridge and I have never seen a more ignorant group of fans than those I encountered in buffalo.

DrunkHillbilly
02-05-2008, 11:05 AM
So its ok that I bash the team I cheer for, and not ok to bash and question "fans" that talk trash about them?? Just want to make sure I got that right. Do you live like right across the rainbow bridge or something?? Seriously.. What do you have against buffalo. I think its a great town to live in.
Let's see here. You have been a fan for 17 years. I have been a fan for over 30. Watch this......THE CHIEFS SUCKED THIS YEAR!!!! How's that for bashing "your team"?

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 11:13 AM
I dont go to BILLS games jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who are you to talk you're from Canada for crying out loud. EH?? My girlfriend and her family are from here, and they are some of the best people I have ever met. And i havent called out people for saying our o line sucked. Or we need these type of changes. Ive called out people that say the dumbest things with nothing to back it up. I argue with Chief31 a lot but he always has something to back it up and always has good rebuttals.

Canada
02-05-2008, 11:30 AM
I dont go to BILLS games jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who are you to talk you're from Canada for crying out loud. EH?? My girlfriend and her family are from here, and they are some of the best people I have ever met. And i havent called out people for saying our o line sucked. Or we need these type of changes. Ive called out people that say the dumbest things with nothing to back it up. I argue with Chief31 a lot but he always has something to back it up and always has good rebuttals.


ahhhh.....finally the Canadian comment. How could I possibly know about football when I am waaaaay up near the arctic circle in an igloo riding a moose. Quick think up a mountie joke and I will have heard them all. I did not say that I hat all bills fans, but I have never left the stadium without someone trying to pick a fight with opposing fans. That is absolute ignorance. I literally had to fight a guy when I left that Chiefs game. That is ignorant. I don't hate them all, my wife is a bills fan but mostly they are idiots. I been to other stadiums and it isn't like that. Just seems to me that when they are going to 4 straight SBs then everyone loves em and then when they are losing no one is a fan. But then what do I know....I'm only from Canada and you are from fubbalo.

chiefnationrepresentarmy
02-05-2008, 11:35 AM
I have to agree with Canada on going into other peoples staduims and representing the RED and getting into fights. I went to the KC denver game. The one where Dante had the hall of fame moves after the catch and scored. Anyway, I was head to toe in KC RED and got harrassed and had 2 seperate incidents where i had either a shouting or shoving match with The PONIES fans. GO CHIEFS!!!

chiefnationrepresentarmy
02-05-2008, 11:37 AM
if you notice the pic i am holding a sign that says
tickets xxx
beer xxx
drive xxx
Lienart 0-1 priceless. yeah i took that into Glendale Arizona in Matt's first start. REPRESENT

Canada
02-05-2008, 11:39 AM
I have to agree with Canada on going into other peoples staduims and representing the RED and getting into fights. I went to the KC denver game. The one where Dante had the hall of fame moves after the catch and scored. Anyway, I was head to toe in KC RED and got harrassed and had 2 seperate incidents where i had either a shouting or shoving match with The PONIES fans. GO CHIEFS!!!


if you notice the pic i am holding a sign that says
tickets xxx
beer xxx
drive xxx
Lienart 0-1 priceless. yeah i took that into Glendale Arizona in Matt's first start. REPRESENT

Right on Brother!! :bananen_smilies046: I will go into battle at any stadium with you!!!! :drunkhb:

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 11:41 AM
I do agree with that statement Canada. I did take offense to the inbred statement because of my GF and her family living here. They are jerks here I totally agree with you. I rag the people I work with probably on a daily basis about the bills. I didnt have any problems when i was there wearing my jersey and apparel. We actually tailgated with some chiefs fans. I was 4 rows up on the 40 chiefs sideline when I was there. And no I dont have any stupid canadian jokes for you. And i'm not from buffalo damnit!!! I just live here now.

chiefnationrepresentarmy
02-05-2008, 11:42 AM
pick the road game and i am there. i have less than 40 days left in iraq and i am home. So lets do this. I am thinking about going to the panthers kc game this year in charlotte. I am stationed at bragg. hmmm. i will send pics of course

Canada
02-05-2008, 11:43 AM
I do agree with that statement Canada. I did take offense to the inbred statement because of my GF and her family living here. They are jerks here I totally agree with you. I rag the people I work with probably on a daily basis about the bills. I didnt have any problems when i was there wearing my jersey and apparel. We actually tailgated with some chiefs fans. I was 4 rows up on the 40 chiefs sideline when I was there. And no I dont have any stupid canadian jokes for you. And i'm not from buffalo damnit!!! I just live here now.

That is why I say most. I have met some fans who are alright, but most of them ruin a good game when you are there. :bananen_smilies046:

chiefnationrepresentarmy
02-05-2008, 11:48 AM
in arizona it was about 70-30 kc to arizona though, it was like a home game.

Canada
02-05-2008, 11:49 AM
in arizona it was about 70-30 kc to arizona though, it was like a home game.

Can you make it for the home opener?? Coach is puttin on a big party!! Right coach?? :bananen_smilies046:

chiefnationrepresentarmy
02-05-2008, 11:52 AM
i am going to try. I have not been to arrowhead. yep i am ashamed to admit it. but i lived in independence for 8 years. when i was a kid. and am a true die hard but havent been back. i am overdue for a KC HOME GAME!!!

Canada
02-05-2008, 11:54 AM
i am going to try. I have not been to arrowhead. yep i am ashamed to admit it. but i lived in independence for 8 years. when i was a kid. and am a true die hard but havent been back. i am overdue for a KC HOME GAME!!!

Nothin to be ashamed of, just something that needs to be taken care of!! ASAP...opening day for coaches party!! :yahoo::drunkhb:

Chiefster
02-05-2008, 01:59 PM
Who is bashing them?? You need to see the difference between pointing out facts and bashing. Like I said before....argue away, that is why we are all here. I just don't understand why you think that because people think our O line sucked last year, or our running game was ineffective is bashing the team. Take a look....our O line SUCKED and out running game was hopeless until we saw Kolby Smith. That ain't bashing, that is the truth weather you like it or not.
You question peoples loyalty when they are on a Chiefs website during the offseason after a 4-12 season. There are no more hardcore fans out their, except for you apparently. You can have fubbalo and the mostly ignorant inbred F#%@s who call themselves fans. Yes I live right across the Rainbow bridge and I have never seen a more ignorant group of fans than those I encountered in buffalo.


Let's see here. You have been a fan for 17 years. I have been a fan for over 30. Watch this......THE CHIEFS SUCKED THIS YEAR!!!! How's that for bashing "your team"?


Exactly on both accounts!

Rep to you both.

AkChief49
02-05-2008, 11:18 PM
i am going to try. I have not been to arrowhead. yep i am ashamed to admit it. but i lived in independence for 8 years. when i was a kid. and am a true die hard but havent been back. i am overdue for a KC HOME GAME!!!sad to say I've never been either! hope to remedy that soon!!:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
02-05-2008, 11:53 PM
pick the road game and i am there. i have less than 40 days left in iraq and i am home. So lets do this. I am thinking about going to the panthers kc game this year in charlotte. I am stationed at bragg. hmmm. i will send pics of course

If you get to KC before then, let's drink some beers!

:drunkhb:

hermhater
02-05-2008, 11:54 PM
Can you make it for the home opener?? Coach is puttin on a big party!! Right coach?? :bananen_smilies046:

Right Coach????

:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
02-05-2008, 11:55 PM
i am going to try. I have not been to arrowhead. yep i am ashamed to admit it. but i lived in independence for 8 years. when i was a kid. and am a true die hard but havent been back. i am overdue for a KC HOME GAME!!!


Nothin to be ashamed of, just something that needs to be taken care of!! ASAP...opening day for coaches party!! :yahoo::drunkhb:

Right Coach????

:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
02-05-2008, 11:56 PM
sad to say I've never been either! hope to remedy that soon!!:bananen_smilies046:

Get down here for opening day at Arrowhead!


:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
02-05-2008, 11:56 PM
Exactly on both accounts!

Rep to you both.

Giving away free rep again I see...

:biggrin:

AkChief49
02-06-2008, 12:02 AM
Get down here for opening day at Arrowhead!


:bananen_smilies046:I've actually been hitting up the "boss" on this subject and believe I have her talked into it!. Cannot wait to see the Chiefs in person and cannot wait to taste the famous BBQ!!!!:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
02-06-2008, 12:04 AM
I've actually been hitting up the "boss" on this subject and believe I have her talked into it!. Cannot wait to see the Chiefs in person and cannot wait to taste the famous BBQ!!!!:bananen_smilies046:


What about how excited you are to meet the Chiefs Crowd fans?

:bananen_smilies046: :yahoo:

AkChief49
02-06-2008, 12:06 AM
What about how excited you are to meet the Chiefs Crowd fans?

:bananen_smilies046: :yahoo:my bad!! of course that is a "cannot wait" part of the program!!!:yahoo: :D

Chiefster
02-06-2008, 07:42 PM
Giving away free rep again I see...

:biggrin:

HA! You misunderstand I bill you 1000000000000000000000000000 Arrowcash for my rep. :D