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View Full Version : what peterson and hunt could have done with LJ



KUHAWKS
01-02-2008, 01:03 AM
you know, i was just thinking...

...if peterson and hunt would have done LJ's contract a little differently...gave him incentives to where he could earn the money he is making now...instead of just handing it out in good faith that LJ would produce..

...now i dont know, but i just wonder if LJ would have accepted a contract renegotiation that was based more on incentives then just a handout of money.

probably not...but you never know. Then we wouldn't be in the mess we are now wit him if that would have happened.

Guru
01-02-2008, 01:05 AM
Uhhhhhh
No
He wouldn't.

There isn't a player in the NFL that would unless they were staving off retirement.

KUHAWKS
01-02-2008, 01:06 AM
Uhhhhhh
No
He wouldn't.

There isn't a player in the NFL that would unless they were staving off retirement.


ricky williams did it....big mistake too :)

McLovin
01-02-2008, 01:09 AM
you know, i was just thinking...

...if peterson and hunt would have done LJ's contract a little differently...gave him incentives to where he could earn the money he is making now...instead of just handing it out in good faith that LJ would produce..

...now i dont know, but i just wonder if LJ would have accepted a contract renegotiation that was based more on incentives then just a handout of money.

probably not...but you never know. Then we wouldn't be in the mess we are now wit him if that would have happened.
I am a LJ fan almost as big as they get, while I do think he should have gotten a certain amount of guaranteed money, I do think there should be a lot more incentives rather then here you go no matter what you do.
Although I think the head coaches job should be the same. I am starting to think Herm was brought in to ruin the organization so that Clark can move it out of KC. Right now with Hermie ball surviving this miserable season I am just so sick I dont quite know what to do. In cant believe what they have done to our team in just a two year period. Sickening. BTW Reppin ya on this post to reverse the neg rep(that I gave ya), although let it be a warning, not good to come in here and tell us to embrace Hermie after this fiasco. That is close to as bad as Hermie's get over it statement.

prough91
01-02-2008, 01:13 AM
I am a LJ fan almost as big as they get, while I do think he should have gotten a certain amount of guaranteed money, I do think there should be a lot more incentives rather then here you go no matter what you do.
Although I think the head coaches job should be the same. I am starting to think Herm was brought in to ruin the organization so that Clark can move it out of KC. Right now with Hermie ball surviving this miserable season I am just so sick I dont quite know what to do. In cant believe what they have done to our team in just a two year period. Sickening. BTW Reppin ya on this post to reverse the neg rep(that I gave ya), although let it be a warning, not good to come in here and tell us to embrace Hermie after this fiasco. That is close to as bad as Hermie's get over it statement.

You neg rep'd someone for their opinion? I can understand if they were being a prick or something. I didn't neg rep you for being pissy earlier. Bad bryonc, bad boy.

KUHAWKS
01-02-2008, 01:14 AM
I am a LJ fan almost as big as they get, while I do think he should have gotten a certain amount of guaranteed money, I do think there should be a lot more incentives rather then here you go no matter what you do.
Although I think the head coaches job should be the same. I am starting to think Herm was brought in to ruin the organization so that Clark can move it out of KC. Right now with Hermie ball surviving this miserable season I am just so sick I dont quite know what to do. In cant believe what they have done to our team in just a two year period. Sickening. BTW Reppin ya on this post to reverse the neg rep(that I gave ya), although let it be a warning, not good to come in here and tell us to embrace Hermie after this fiasco. That is close to as bad as Hermie's get over it statement.

my statement in embracing Herm wasnt me telling you what to do...just what i personally think is best for us to do. If I get gonderia, instead of hating every day of my life, I am going to accept it and learn to like it. Think of Herm as your gonderia.

He is here and he isn't going anywhere. I think we are in a position to where, if we get the right players through draft or trade and get our o line fixed, we can be a playoff team and at least watch our team go out in style first round against either the Colts or Pats!!!

Wouldn't that be great to see compared to a year like this year?

And yes i think we can do that...even under Herm! Let's plan on being good next year instead of this forumn being negative from here until next fall. That will be a boring 8 months!

McLovin
01-02-2008, 01:21 AM
You neg rep'd someone for their opinion? I can understand if they were being a prick or something. I didn't neg rep you for being pissy earlier. Bad bryonc, bad boy.
No One is going to tell me to like Hermie, lol wont happen. And honestly if Hermie does come back(which it is looking like he will) then I want the Chiefs to have another miserable season. I dont want anything that makes it look like Hermie has a clue, because he doesn't and he needs to go away. NOW. If we get to the playoffs in spite of Hermie he is libel to keep his job even longer. I am no longer content with CP and Hermie getting us to the playoffs just to be beat by a better team first round. I want to win it all, mediocre is not good enough anymore.

Also I thought from his first post he was Hermie trying to learn this internet thingy, or CP coverin his butt, or maybe Timmy (timsatt) trying to stir the pot.

I have only neg repped a person 2 times, he just caught me on a pissy day and told me to like Hermie, not gonna happen. LOL

KUHAWKS
01-02-2008, 01:23 AM
No One is going to tell me to like Hermie, lol wont happen. And honestly if Hermie does come back(which it is looking like he will) then I want the Chiefs to have another miserable season. I dont want anything that makes it look like Hermie has a clue, because he doesn't and he needs to go away. NOW. If we get to the playoffs in spite of Hermie he is libel to keep his job even longer. I am no longer content with CP and Hermie getting us to the playoffs just to be beat by a better team first round. I want to win it all, mediocre is not good enough anymore.

Also I thought from his first post he was Hermie trying to learn this internet thingy, or CP coverin his butt, or maybe Timmy (timsatt) trying to stir the pot.

I have only neg repped a person 2 times, he just caught me on a pissy day and told me to like Hermie, not gonna happen. LOL

I just took away your fan card. you can earn it back, but it won't be any time soon.

prough91
01-02-2008, 01:25 AM
No One is going to tell me to like Hermie, lol wont happen. And honestly if Hermie does come back(which it is looking like he will) then I want the Chiefs to have another miserable season. I dont want anything that makes it look like Hermie has a clue, because he doesn't and he needs to go away. NOW. If we get to the playoffs in spite of Hermie he is libel to keep his job even longer. I am no longer content with CP and Hermie getting us to the playoffs just to be beat by a better team first round. I want to win it all, mediocre is not good enough anymore.

Also I thought from his first post he was Hermie trying to learn this internet thingy, or CP coverin his butt, or maybe Timmy (timsatt) trying to stir the pot.

I have only neg repped a person 2 times, he just caught me on a pissy day and told me to like Hermie, not gonna happen. LOL

I never ever want the Chiefs to have a miserable season. That's not punishing Herm, that's punishing me. You need to change your name to hermhater 2.0.

:yahoo:

Guru
01-02-2008, 01:25 AM
I just took away your fan card. you can earn it back, but it won't be any time soon.

Afraid I have to agree with this. Never root against your own team.

McLovin
01-02-2008, 01:27 AM
I just took away your fan card. you can earn it back, but it won't be any time soon.

Sorry as long as Hermie is here my Fan Card is put away, I am not using it. I love the guys on the team, but puke a lil each time I think of Herm and what he has done to this team.

prough91
01-02-2008, 01:40 AM
Sorry as long as Hermie is here my Fan Card is put away, I am not using it. I love the guys on the team, but puke a lil each time I think of Herm and what he has done to this team.

Does it make you puke a little thinking about how Vermeil ignored the defense for so long that it took 2 years to get it back to decent?

KUHAWKS
01-02-2008, 01:43 AM
Does it make you puke a little thinking about how Vermeil ignored the defense for so long that it took 2 years to get it back to decent?


that never bothered me too much. it did bother me some though. but i loved watching dick vermeil's team more than any other coached by another coach.

Thank you Vermeil for the great years!! i will forever miss them!!!!!

McLovin
01-02-2008, 01:47 AM
Does it make you puke a little thinking about how Vermeil ignored the defense for so long that it took 2 years to get it back to decent?

I love Dicky V but yes, why is it we can have either a great D or a great O, I want both dammit. Now on my stance on Hermie, I wont be content till he is gone. The only reason the D looked good this year is because of Jared Allen. Really Tank and Turk were no prize this year, Hali was ok at best. Surtain and Law are past their prime. JA made this defense (actually about the only one other then Gonzo and D-Bowe on the team) somewhat respectable.

Will the remainder of the Hermie backers at least jump ship if he decides that Gonzo and JA aren't his and cuts or trades them too. If that happens I wont cheer for the Chiefs till he is gone. I am not going to sit and watch this man kill one of the things I loved most.

prough91
01-02-2008, 01:48 AM
that never bothered me too much. it did bother me some though. but i loved watching dick vermeil's team more than any other coached by another coach.

Thank you Vermeil for the great years!! i will forever miss them!!!!!

Not me. Run it up the middle and hit 'em hard. I'd rather watch us win 3-0 then blow somebody out. I love a great defense, but that's just me. I'm old school. That's how I roll.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii307/prough91/11.jpg

McLovin
01-02-2008, 01:50 AM
Not me. Run it up the middle and hit 'em hard. I'd rather watch us win 3-0 then blow somebody out. I love a great defense, but that's just me. I'm old school. That's how I roll.

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/

Well then you can roll on out the door with Hermie :lol::lol::lol:

That just dont win games in this league anymore with the Brady's and the Manning's (well one Manning) then you have Romo and Favre, Defense doesn't win championships anymore. Just ask the Billick and the Ravens.

prough91
01-02-2008, 01:55 AM
Well then you can roll on out the door with Hermie :lol::lol::lol:

That just dont win games in this league anymore with the Brady's and the Manning's (well one Manning) then you have Romo and Favre, Defense doesn't win championships anymore. Just ask the Billick and the Ravens.

Sadly, I realize that, but I still like watching that kind of football. Ravens won a Super Bowl this decade though.

McLovin
01-02-2008, 01:56 AM
Sadly, I realize that, but I still like watching that kind of football. Ravens won a Super Bowl this decade though.

More then we will ever be able to say bout Hermie.

Chiefster
01-02-2008, 01:58 AM
In light of how the season ended for LJ they would have been better off letting him sit out.

prough91
01-02-2008, 02:00 AM
In light of how the season ended for LJ they would have been better off letting him sit out.

They could have paid me a million bucks to sit on my butt and I could have saved them tons of money.

Chiefster
01-02-2008, 02:01 AM
They could have paid me a million bucks to sit on my butt and I could have saved them tons of money.

Yep!

prough91
01-02-2008, 02:03 AM
Yep!

Who am I kidding? I would have done it for a grand and half a sub sandwich.

hermhater
01-02-2008, 02:03 AM
No One is going to tell me to like Hermie, lol wont happen. And honestly if Hermie does come back(which it is looking like he will) then I want the Chiefs to have another miserable season. I dont want anything that makes it look like Hermie has a clue, because he doesn't and he needs to go away. NOW. If we get to the playoffs in spite of Hermie he is libel to keep his job even longer. I am no longer content with CP and Hermie getting us to the playoffs just to be beat by a better team first round. I want to win it all, mediocre is not good enough anymore.

Also I thought from his first post he was Hermie trying to learn this internet thingy, or CP coverin his butt, or maybe Timmy (timsatt) trying to stir the pot.

I have only neg repped a person 2 times, he just caught me on a pissy day and told me to like Hermie, not gonna happen. LOL

I don't want the Chiefs to have a miserable season, but I assume it will happen as long as Herm is here.

I want him gone by all means necessary.

Chiefster
01-02-2008, 02:04 AM
Who am I kidding? I would have done it for a grand and half a sub sandwich.

:lol::lol::lol:

HA! I would have at least taken the league minimum. :D

prough91
01-02-2008, 02:05 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

HA! I would have at least taken the league minimum. :D

I've done worse for less.

McLovin
01-02-2008, 02:06 AM
Or maybe just maybe put him on IR when he got hurt, instead of playing games with him and keeping him active, and therefore losing a roster spot that could have been used on untested talent.

Also why start Drummond again, cut him and let someone else unproven try for the job, I mean I see not wanting to get someone hurt therefore playing Drummond, but does anyone actually think this loser will be back next year. Come on if your gonna play the rebuilding card, then cut the fat and rebuild. And be willing to try some players that prolly wont make it to find the one gem that could.

Chiefster
01-02-2008, 02:09 AM
I've done worse for less.


Same here.

prough91
01-02-2008, 02:13 AM
Same here.

At least I have the negatives.

Chiefster
01-02-2008, 03:27 AM
I love Dicky V but yes, why is it we can have either a great D or a great O, I want both dammit. Now on my stance on Hermie, I wont be content till he is gone. The only reason the D looked good this year is because of Jared Allen. Really Tank and Turk were no prize this year, Hali was ok at best. Surtain and Law are past their prime. JA made this defense (actually about the only one other then Gonzo and D-Bowe on the team) somewhat respectable.

Will the remainder of the Hermie backers at least jump ship if he decides that Gonzo and JA aren't his and cuts or trades them too. If that happens I wont cheer for the Chiefs till he is gone. I am not going to sit and watch this man kill one of the things I loved most.

In all the years Peterson has been GM he has never been able to get both sides of the ball together. We just concluded year nineteen of Carl's five year plan to get to the Super Bowl.

hermhater
01-02-2008, 03:41 AM
In all the years Peterson has been GM he has never been able to get both sides of the ball together. We just concluded year nineteen of Carl's five year plan to get to the Super Bowl.


So it's gonna get better in year 20 right?

Please...

Chiefster
01-02-2008, 03:48 AM
At least I have the negatives.

Heh! I don't even have that.:lol:


So it's gonna get better in year 20 right?

Please...

That's right; just keep tellin yourself that. :p













NITE CROWD! :D

chief31
01-02-2008, 09:54 PM
Does it make you puke a little thinking about how Vermeil ignored the defense for so long that it took 2 years to get it back to decent?

Failed. Not ignored.


Not me. Run it up the middle and hit 'em hard. I'd rather watch us win 3-0 then blow somebody out. I love a great defense, but that's just me. I'm old school. That's how I roll.



So, how do you feel about losing 3-0? Because that is much closer to our current reality.

prough91
01-02-2008, 10:34 PM
Failed. Not ignored.

Okey doke, he failed the defense then. What's the difference?

hermhater
01-02-2008, 10:36 PM
Okey doke, he failed the defense then. What's the difference?

We had better records, and we had exciting games.

That is enough for me right there.

prough91
01-02-2008, 10:41 PM
We had better records, and we had exciting games.

That is enough for me right there.

Not to mention all the playoff wins and the Super Bowl...oh wait that didn't happen.

chief31
01-02-2008, 10:41 PM
Okey doke, he failed the defense then. What's the difference?

Saying that he ignored the defense insenuates that he wasn't even trying. That it was somehow malicious. When in fact, he had used most of his first-day picks on defensive players, and allowed free-agency to revolve around finding defensive players as well.

Unfortunately, that is one reason why we were unprepared for this season. Little to no depth along the offensive line.

Although I maintain a stance that the depth was there during our '07 training camp.

hermhater
01-02-2008, 10:53 PM
We had better records, and we had exciting games.

That is enough for me right there.


Not to mention all the playoff wins and the Super Bowl...oh wait that didn't happen.

I don't get your point guy.

Is it happening now?

:sign0153:

McLovin
01-02-2008, 11:12 PM
I don't get your point guy.

Is it happening now?

:sign0153:

If it weren't for a good number of intelligent posts, I would think Prough is Herm. I am surprised that you havent seen that Prough is a huge Hermie fan and actually defends him on occasion.

But then everyone has a character flaw or two, for Prough it is not seeing Hermie for the Chief killer he is. Other then that Prough seems alright.

:lol::lol::lol:

hermhater
01-02-2008, 11:16 PM
If it weren't for a good number of intelligent posts, I would think Prough is Herm. I am surprised that you havent seen that Prough is a huge Hermie fan and actually defends him on occasion.

But then everyone has a character flaw or two, for Prough it is not seeing Hermie for the Chief killer he is. Other then that Prough seems alright.

:lol::lol::lol:

I hadn't noticed.

He is a good guy though, and will figure it out soon enough.

chief31
01-02-2008, 11:22 PM
I am not entirely anti-Herm myself. It is more about what he can do, in the future, though. I dislike what he has done in the past, but perhaps he has finally learned from seven years of mistakes.

I think that every Chiefs fan will agree that the lack of O-line talent was our biggest on-field problem this season.

If Herm has finally learned that he has been underestimating the value of blockers, then he has a chance to win me over yet.

But if he does nothing more than bring in some fat-a55ed run-blockers, (Which I truly fear) then I will stay opposed.

There is also the whole offensive philosophy issue. But if you have a great offensive line, then the philosophy that Herm uses will look much better. I don't like the philosophy, but it can work.

McLovin
01-02-2008, 11:27 PM
After last year I was slightly anti-herm, after this year though I don't think he can ever get back to a good place with me. He even has me hoping the Chiefs lose a lot next year so he gets fired sooner then later and we can move on. Because I don't see him ever doing anything good for the team.

I wasn't a Marty fan either but I have 3 times as much dislike for Herm in 2 years then I ever had for Marty and that is saying something.

hermhater
01-02-2008, 11:27 PM
I wanted to believe he really had a plan, but he has proven me right so many times this season it is hard to overlook.

His O philosophy gets players injured at the rate of about 1 starter per game.

That will never fly with me.

prough91
01-02-2008, 11:56 PM
If it weren't for a good number of intelligent posts, I would think Prough is Herm. I am surprised that you havent seen that Prough is a huge Hermie fan and actually defends him on occasion.

But then everyone has a character flaw or two, for Prough it is not seeing Hermie for the Chief killer he is. Other then that Prough seems alright.

:lol::lol::lol:

I give any coach three years. I'm not in there little meetings and know what goes on behind closed doors. I know our defense is coming around and I love that. I lay most of the blame at Carl's feet. He knows what kind of coach Herm is and should get the players in that will fit in his scheme. If they suck again next year and I can see clearly it's because of Herm then I'll be hollering for his head too.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 12:15 AM
I give any coach three years. I'm not in there little meetings and know what goes on behind closed doors. I know our defense is coming around and I love that. I lay most of the blame at Carl's feet. He knows what kind of coach Herm is and should get the players in that will fit in his scheme. If they suck again next year and I can see clearly it's because of Herm then I'll be hollering for his head too.

He had 5 years in NY. 2 playoff wins.

Herm thought he would have it easy here in the AFC West because he was getting away from the Patriots 2 times a year, and that would somehow make a difference in his ability to coach a team.

He was wrong and we actually gave up a draft pick for his sorry ***.

prough91
01-03-2008, 12:21 AM
He had 5 years in NY. 2 playoff wins.

Herm thought he would have it easy here in the AFC West because he was getting away from the Patriots 2 times a year, and that would somehow make a difference in his ability to coach a team.

He was wrong and we actually gave up a draft pick for his sorry ***.

How many playoff wins did we have with Vermeil in his five years? We had to give the Rams a pick for him too, because technically he was still under contract to them. Never heard anyone complaining about that. I knew 4 years ago we were going to be in bad shape in a few years. We had high picks that were busts and we weren't doing hardly anything in FA to help the team in the long haul. We're just paying the piper now.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 12:25 AM
How many playoff wins did we have with Vermeil in his five years? We had to give the Rams a pick for him too, because technically he was still under contract to them. Never heard anyone complaining about that. I knew 4 years ago we were going to be in bad shape in a few years. We had high picks that were busts and we weren't doing hardly anything in FA to help the team in the long haul. We're just paying the piper now.

Well you're talking about getting a 2 time Super Bowl champion coach for a pick, vs a 2 time playoff winning coach for a pick.

That comparison doesn't work with me.

We had our chances with Vermiel but got ***** slapped by Peyton Manning. Again.

I'm just as tired of you with mediocre teams year after year, but I am confident that Herm is not the answer.

I hope I eat crow next year, but doubt that will be the case.

prough91
01-03-2008, 12:37 AM
Well you're talking about getting a 2 time Super Bowl champion coach for a pick, vs a 2 time playoff winning coach for a pick.

That comparison doesn't work with me.

We had our chances with Vermiel but got ***** slapped by Peyton Manning. Again.

I'm just as tired of you with mediocre teams year after year, but I am confident that Herm is not the answer.

I hope I eat crow next year, but doubt that will be the case.

I wonder too how much influence the Chief's coach has in the draft or FA for that matter. Remember how happy Vermeil was when LJ was drafted? That's why I place almost all blame on Carl.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 12:46 AM
I wonder too how much influence the Chief's coach has in the draft or FA for that matter. Remember how happy Vermeil was when LJ was drafted? That's why I place almost all blame on Carl.


The problem with this team at this point is Carl gets who ever he wants, and Herm either doesn't adapt to the talent, or just can't friggin' see it.

He let alot of the talent leave after training camp, and pre-season.

prough91
01-03-2008, 12:53 AM
Well you're talking about getting a 2 time Super Bowl champion coach for a pick, vs a 2 time playoff winning coach for a pick.

That comparison doesn't work with me.

We had our chances with Vermiel but got ***** slapped by Peyton Manning. Again.

I'm just as tired of you with mediocre teams year after year, but I am confident that Herm is not the answer.

I hope I eat crow next year, but doubt that will be the case.

I could care less if he won 15 Super Bowls, he didn't win us squat.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 12:56 AM
I could care less if he won 15 Super Bowls, he didn't win us squat.

I get that man.

My point was, there was absolutely nothing in Herm's background that would suggest he would be successful, whereas Vermiel would be.

That is why I don't see a problem with using a draft pick for Vermiel, as opposed to Herm.

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 01:57 AM
I battled this out like 3 weeks ago...In defense of Herm he did work with lovie and dungy in tampa bay, to me thats a pretty strong pedigree. He was a scout for the chiefs I think under schottenheimer. And he did take over an aging team that was definitely in transition. Give em another year or two and lets see what happens. Then we can call for his head if its a failure!!!!

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 02:01 AM
I battled this out like 3 weeks ago...In defense of Herm he did work with lovie and dungy in tampa bay, to me thats a pretty strong pedigree. He was a scout for the chiefs I think under schottenheimer. And he did take over an aging team that was definitely in transition. Give em another year or two and lets see what happens. Then we can call for his head if its a failure!!!!


No, no, no, no, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I want him gone now; I'm one of those incredibly impatient fans! :p

hermhater
01-03-2008, 02:04 AM
I battled this out like 3 weeks ago...In defense of Herm he did work with lovie and dungy in tampa bay, to me thats a pretty strong pedigree. He was a scout for the chiefs I think under schottenheimer. And he did take over an aging team that was definitely in transition. Give em another year or two and lets see what happens. Then we can call for his head if its a failure!!!!

I don't play that "give em' another year or two" game.

Herm is an idiot.

Listen to him talk. If you think he is making sense then you might want to take a look in the mirror, because you might be a moron too.

(Not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general statement!)

:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
01-03-2008, 02:06 AM
No, no, no, no, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I want him gone now; I'm one of those incredibly impatient fans! :p

Agreed!

One never knows when one will see their final Chiefs game.

:D

greg3564
01-03-2008, 02:16 AM
I battled this out like 3 weeks ago...In defense of Herm he did work with lovie and dungy in tampa bay, to me thats a pretty strong pedigree. He was a scout for the chiefs I think under schottenheimer. And he did take over an aging team that was definitely in transition. Give em another year or two and lets see what happens. Then we can call for his head if its a failure!!!!

Are you frickin serious?! We're talking about Herm Edwards, right? His "pedigree" as a .488 record as the Jets coach? Or his .406 record as the Chiefs coach? Add it all together and the "pedigreed" coach has a winning record of .464 in 7 years of coaching!!!!!!!!!! Most definately, let's give him two more years.

The guy should be buying lottery tickets because he's the luckiest coach around. He and his media spinsters have fooled a lot of people into thinking he's some great coach. But his numbers speak the truth. And now all I hear and read is how this Jets player and this so and so Jets coach is coming to KC. Great!! Nothing like bringing the same losing players and coaches into another city.

chief31
01-03-2008, 02:16 AM
I could care less if he won 15 Super Bowls, he didn't win us squat.

So you wouldn't rather give a third round pick for, say.. a Bellichick? over someone else?

When the transactions were made, respively, the deal for Vermiel was a much better one, because he was a guy who had coached two teams to the Super Bowl. Not just two teams...Two horrible teams.

Whereas Herm took a rather mediocre team and made them...well...pretty much mediocre.

Is it worth it to lose a draft pick, to get a coach that turns losing franchises into champions? Then, is it worth it to get a coach who has only shown mediocrity, so far? Is one not the better value?

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 02:17 AM
Ok herm, just take a deep breath and think about this question, ok? If you hate this guy sooo much and hate everything he has done with our loved franchise put yourself in his shoes two years ago and tell me or us what you would have done... Seriously, everyone is so quick to bash in this society and we have a right as fans to do so...I would like to know how you would have made up for two HOF lineman that retired, a defense that was getting old and had little or no talent and an offense that had two playmakers???? And no QB??? What would you have done??? The funny thing is, is that everyone should have seen this coming and now that its here it really sux...

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 02:17 AM
I don't play that "give em' another year or two" game.

Herm is an idiot.

Listen to him talk. If you think he is making sense then you might want to take a look in the mirror, because you might be a moron too.

(Not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general statement!)

:bananen_smilies046:

Almost crossed the line there bud had it not been for your blanket disclaimer statement.


Agreed!

One never knows when one will see their final Chiefs game.

:D

Tis so very true.

greg3564
01-03-2008, 02:24 AM
Ok herm, just take a deep breath and think about this question, ok? If you hate this guy sooo much and hate everything he has done with our loved franchise put yourself in his shoes two years ago and tell me or us what you would have done... Seriously, everyone is so quick to bash in this society and we have a right as fans to do so...I would like to know how you would have made up for two HOF lineman that retired, a defense that was getting old and had little or no talent and an offense that had two playmakers???? And no QB??? What would you have done??? The funny thing is, is that everyone should have seen this coming and now that its here it really sux...

It's called player management. The Patriots were riddled with injuries this year, but they managed to do pretty good. Now, we are not the Pats and don't have the talent they do. But, Carl and Herm should have been preparing in the draft and free agency. They didn't. You also cannot forget about the horrible play calling and game management. Something Herm has a history of screwing up. Solari bought the farm and took it for the team, but Herm is largely responsible for the overall play calling. The buck stops with the head coach. How can a OC get all the blame and not the head coach?

chief31
01-03-2008, 02:30 AM
Ok herm, just take a deep breath and think about this question, ok? If you hate this guy sooo much and hate everything he has done with our loved franchise put yourself in his shoes two years ago and tell me or us what you would have done... Seriously, everyone is so quick to bash in this society and we have a right as fans to do so...I would like to know how you would have made up for two HOF lineman that retired, a defense that was getting old and had little or no talent and an offense that had two playmakers???? And no QB??? What would you have done??? The funny thing is, is that everyone should have seen this coming and now that its here it really sux...

May I cut-in?

Well, since Herm arrived here, we have gone two full drafts without even attempting to fill-in behind Roaf and Shields. It's not rocket science. Even if you want to give him a free pass for the first draft,( Eventhough he knew those guys were awefully close to retirement) then why didn't anything get done with the second draft? (Sixth round is doing nothing.)

Can anyone tell me what awesome players we do have on this team right now? Now take a look at the names you have and tell me how many of them were even drafted by Herm. The answer is one. Bowe is the only guy that has made any noise from that group.

Hali hasn't done anything. Pollard has been unnoticable, Paige has been too noticable, and Tyler and McBride have not done anything either.

I struggle to find the good in Herms tenure.

As far as the defense that Herm took over not having any talent... Who has talent there now? Oh, DJ And JA. But those guys were already here. (Sorry for the attitude.)

I think Gunny has more to do with the improvement of our D than Herm does. Sheer speculation, but That's what I think.

Honestly, I try to stay off of Herm case. And I think he has next season coming to him. (Since we made the deal with him) But his flaws are quite evident, and saying things like "arena football" and "get over it" don't help his case much.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 02:33 AM
Ok herm, just take a deep breath and think about this question, ok? If you hate this guy sooo much and hate everything he has done with our loved franchise put yourself in his shoes two years ago and tell me or us what you would have done... Seriously, everyone is so quick to bash in this society and we have a right as fans to do so...I would like to know how you would have made up for two HOF lineman that retired, a defense that was getting old and had little or no talent and an offense that had two playmakers???? And no QB??? What would you have done??? The funny thing is, is that everyone should have seen this coming and now that its here it really sux...

We used to have the best (because he was a Chief) QB in the league.

There is so much that I could yell about Greens concussion that it would not be feasible for me to argue the points flat out.

Herm is an offensive player destroyer.

I didn't realize the extent of it, and didn't blame him for Trent, but this is ridiculous.

The pattern of play calling is so obvious I could send an old lady to sack our QB.

I am glad our D is better, but still think Tamba is overrated, and we are helpless to stop the run. And the Deep Ball.

If a coach can't do one, or the other (O or D) what exactly is he useful for?

Losing the respect of the players?

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 02:37 AM
We used to have the best (because he was a Chief) QB in the league.

There is so much that I could yell about Greens concussion that it would not be feasible for me to argue the points flat out.

Herm is an offensive player destroyer.

I didn't realize the extent of it, and didn't blame him for Trent, but this is ridiculous.

The pattern of play calling is so obvious I could send an old lady to sack our QB.

I am glad our D is better, but still think Tamba is overrated, and we are helpless to stop the run. And the Deep Ball.

If a coach can't do one, or the other (O or D) what exactly is he useful for?

Losing the respect of the players?

...and, the league.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 02:37 AM
Ok herm, just take a deep breath and think about this question, ok? If you hate this guy sooo much and hate everything he has done with our loved franchise put yourself in his shoes two years ago and tell me or us what you would have done... Seriously, everyone is so quick to bash in this society and we have a right as fans to do so...I would like to know how you would have made up for two HOF lineman that retired, a defense that was getting old and had little or no talent and an offense that had two playmakers???? And no QB??? What would you have done??? The funny thing is, is that everyone should have seen this coming and now that its here it really sux...


And quit calling me HERM!!!

:mob:

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 02:40 AM
And quit calling me HERM!!!

:mob:

YouTube - Airplane! Montage Clip

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 02:53 AM
lol, thats pretty funny...To the Greg guy from Tx you're comparing the patriots who have Tom "freakin" Brady to us, wait let me repeat that Tom "freakin" Brady, ok much better now... and thats all im gonna say about that thread....Just being a realistic fan I guess in asking are you people looking for a cinderella story??? For all of these changes to happen over night or something??? I dont think Will Shields retired before the draft so why would they waste a high draft pick??? Once again do you really think "great" tackles are a dime a dozen???? I think they tried to do something with the acquisition of Mcintosh. So Those comments made no sense to me...Were you one of those people last year that thought Mario Williams was a bust because he didnt dominate games the way "you" wanted him to?? Well a year later looks like the texans drafted right. Tank and Turk were freaking rookies!!!!!! Alphonso Boone, Oh wait let me see, Herm brought him in was a beast!!!!! For Bowe, If we didnt draft him or some other WR you guys would have been crying about how we need a WR and we get one and some defensive help and your crying because we didnt get something else!!!!! OMG man are you seriously the type of people that go out to eat and complain about everything you get and are never satisfied with anything????? I wanna win too Damnit!!!! But I do know it doesnt happen over night..

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 02:54 AM
herm!!!!!!!!!

hermhater
01-03-2008, 03:01 AM
lol, thats pretty funny...To the Greg guy from Tx you're comparing the patriots who have Tom "freakin" Brady to us, wait let me repeat that Tom "freakin" Brady, ok much better now... and thats all im gonna say about that thread....Just being a realistic fan I guess in asking are you people looking for a cinderella story??? For all of these changes to happen over night or something??? I dont think Will Shields retired before the draft so why would they waste a high draft pick??? Once again do you really think "great" tackles are a dime a dozen???? I think they tried to do something with the acquisition of Mcintosh. So Those comments made no sense to me...Were you one of those people last year that thought Mario Williams was a bust because he didnt dominate games the way "you" wanted him to?? Well a year later looks like the texans drafted right. Tank and Turk were freaking rookies!!!!!! Alphonso Boone, Oh wait let me see, Herm brought him in was a beast!!!!! For Bowe, If we didnt draft him or some other WR you guys would have been crying about how we need a WR and we get one and some defensive help and your crying because we didnt get something else!!!!! OMG man are you seriously the type of people that go out to eat and complain about everything you get and are never satisfied with anything????? I wanna win too Damnit!!!! But I do know it doesnt happen over night..

This would be much easier to argue with if you used the "Enter" key every once in a while.

As it is, I will argue one point of that rant.

Macintosh is a slow, fat turd.

chief31
01-03-2008, 03:02 AM
lol, thats pretty funny...To the Greg guy from Tx you're comparing the patriots who have Tom "freakin" Brady to us, wait let me repeat that Tom "freakin" Brady, ok much better now... and thats all im gonna say about that thread....Just being a realistic fan I guess in asking are you people looking for a cinderella story??? For all of these changes to happen over night or something??? I dont think Will Shields retired before the draft so why would they waste a high draft pick??? Once again do you really think "great" tackles are a dime a dozen???? I think they tried to do something with the acquisition of Mcintosh. So Those comments made no sense to me...Were you one of those people last year that thought Mario Williams was a bust because he didnt dominate games the way "you" wanted him to?? Well a year later looks like the texans drafted right. Tank and Turk were freaking rookies!!!!!! Alphonso Boone, Oh wait let me see, Herm brought him in was a beast!!!!! For Bowe, If we didnt draft him or some other WR you guys would have been crying about how we need a WR and we get one and some defensive help and your crying because we didnt get something else!!!!! OMG man are you seriously the type of people that go out to eat and complain about everything you get and are never satisfied with anything????? I wanna win too Damnit!!!! But I do know it doesnt happen over night..

Doesn't make sense to you to try and replace retired HOF linemen? Then I can't get through to you. But, what the He77...

Herm Edwards has been a head coach for seven seasons. I think he has had his starting qb get hurt in every sngle one of them. Often going through multiple qbs in a season.

In his seven drafts as a head coach, Herm has never taken an offensive lineman higher than the third round. There is no other team that has gone through that kind of stretch without taking an offensive lineman ahead of that spot.

Exactly how many qbs should a head coach be allowed to lose to injury, caused by Herms "bad luck"?

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 03:09 AM
like I said Shields didnt retire until "AFTER" I repeat "AFTER" one more time for you??? "AFTER" the draft and they had high hopes on McIntosh. Maybe you should play left tackle instead, just a thought....

hermhater
01-03-2008, 03:14 AM
like I said Shields didnt retire until "AFTER" I repeat "AFTER" one more time for you??? "AFTER" the draft and they had high hopes on McIntosh. Maybe you should play left tackle instead, just a thought....


I would love to have chief31 in at left tackle over Mac.

(Bulk up chief31.)

Roaf and Shields retired because they were smart enough to know that they were gonna be neglected by Herm.

They would have played another 3 years if we had a Coach that thought points were important.

They were not even close to the end of their careers.

Roaf felt fine, and Shields is training Clady.

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 03:18 AM
Roaf was fine, oh really???13 years in the NFL and he was flirting with retirement the two previous offseasons. Shields Retired because his body couldnt take it anymore he played 14 years. Come on herm know your chiefs bro.

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:21 AM
I get that man.

My point was, there was absolutely nothing in Herm's background that would suggest he would be successful, whereas Vermiel would be.

That is why I don't see a problem with using a draft pick for Vermiel, as opposed to Herm.

You said he had two playoff wins in five years, that's not too shabby.

chief31
01-03-2008, 03:22 AM
like I said Shields didnt retire until "AFTER" I repeat "AFTER" one more time for you??? "AFTER" the draft and they had high hopes on McIntosh. Maybe you should play left tackle instead, just a thought....


No. Shields retired BEFORE I repeat BEFORE one more time for ya BEFOREthe draft.

Perhaps you were thinking of when Roaf retired. That would be why I said some people give him a pass on the first draft. But, seeing as how obvious it was that both he and Shields were contemplating retirement for years before that, I don't really give him that free pass.

Like I said, seven years without taking the offensive line seriously, while watching his qbs get injured every year is my biggest problem with Herm.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 03:24 AM
Roaf was fine, oh really???13 years in the NFL and he was flirting with retirement the two previous offseasons. Shields Retired because his body couldnt take it anymore he played 14 years. Come on herm know your chiefs bro.


I'm pretty decent about knowing my Chiefs, and those guys would have kept playing for a coach they thought would win games.

I don't blame them one bit.

Those guys were old, but able.

They had more years in them (and no I am not suggesting players risk their health for the money) and would/could have stayed if not for Herm.

chief31
01-03-2008, 03:26 AM
I'm pretty decent about knowing my Chiefs, and those guys would have kept playing for a coach they thought would win games.

I don't blame them one bit.

Those guys were old, but able.

They had more years in them (and no I am not suggesting players risk their health for the money) and would/could have stayed if not for Herm.

While I believe that Roaf might have played one more season, had Vermiel stayed, I don't think any other coach would have been able to get him back. So, I don't blame Herm for that.

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:26 AM
So you wouldn't rather give a third round pick for, say.. a Bellichick? over someone else?

When the transactions were made, respively, the deal for Vermiel was a much better one, because he was a guy who had coached two teams to the Super Bowl. Not just two teams...Two horrible teams.

Whereas Herm took a rather mediocre team and made them...well...pretty much mediocre.

Is it worth it to lose a draft pick, to get a coach that turns losing franchises into champions? Then, is it worth it to get a coach who has only shown mediocrity, so far? Is one not the better value?

I don't see the point of giving up a draft pick unless it's for a player. If the players aren't here it don't matter who the coach is.

chief31
01-03-2008, 03:28 AM
I don't see the point of giving up a draft pick unless it's for a player. If the players aren't here it don't matter who the coach is.


So, if the Patriots said we could have Bellichik for a second round pick, you wouldn't want to do that?

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 03:30 AM
herm you crack me up man.. Chief you are right and I am wrong, for some reason I kept thinking he retired right before training camp...But two weeks before the draft??? Like I said before people would have been crying about the fact that once again the chiefs didnt draft a star receiver... I'm really thinking about driving to KC for the bills game my friends are bills fans and I would love to see arrowhead, maybe we can argue then too??

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:30 AM
May I cut-in?

Well, since Herm arrived here, we have gone two full drafts without even attempting to fill-in behind Roaf and Shields. It's not rocket science. Even if you want to give him a free pass for the first draft,( Eventhough he knew those guys were awefully close to retirement) then why didn't anything get done with the second draft? (Sixth round is doing nothing.)

Can anyone tell me what awesome players we do have on this team right now? Now take a look at the names you have and tell me how many of them were even drafted by Herm. The answer is one. Bowe is the only guy that has made any noise from that group.

Hali hasn't done anything. Pollard has been unnoticable, Paige has been too noticable, and Tyler and McBride have not done anything either.

I struggle to find the good in Herms tenure.

As far as the defense that Herm took over not having any talent... Who has talent there now? Oh, DJ And JA. But those guys were already here. (Sorry for the attitude.)

I think Gunny has more to do with the improvement of our D than Herm does. Sheer speculation, but That's what I think.

Honestly, I try to stay off of Herm case. And I think he has next season coming to him. (Since we made the deal with him) But his flaws are quite evident, and saying things like "arena football" and "get over it" don't help his case much.

I never judge a coach by what he says at a press conference or to reporters. Some people aren't built to do that. I know I've been frustrated or just stupid and said ignorant, dumb things, mine just weren't caught on tape.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 03:34 AM
I never judge a coach by what he says at a press conference or to reporters. Some people aren't built to do that. I know I've been frustrated or just stupid and said ignorant, dumb things, mine just weren't caught on tape.


Thank God you aren't a Head Coach in the NFL then!

:bananen_smilies046: :lol:

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 03:36 AM
like I said Shields didnt retire until "AFTER" I repeat "AFTER" one more time for you??? "AFTER" the draft and they had high hopes on McIntosh. Maybe you should play left tackle instead, just a thought....


No. Shields retired BEFORE I repeat BEFORE one more time for ya BEFOREthe draft.

Perhaps you were thinking of when Roaf retired. That would be why I said some people give him a pass on the first draft. But, seeing as how obvious it was that both he and Shields were contemplating retirement for years before that, I don't really give him that free pass.

Like I said, seven years without taking the offensive line seriously, while watching his qbs get injured every year is my biggest problem with Herm.

Is there an echo in here or are people just hard of hearing. :p

chief31
01-03-2008, 03:36 AM
herm you crack me up man.. Chief you are right and I am wrong, for some reason I kept thinking he retired right before training camp...But two weeks before the draft??? Like I said before people would have been crying about the fact that once again the chiefs didnt draft a star receiver... I'm really thinking about driving to KC for the bills game my friends are bills fans and I would love to see arrowhead, maybe we can argue then too??

I'd like that. Although I have yet to make it to a Chiefs game. By the way, I'm pretty sure that Shields' retirement was very conveniently timed, as far as the team knowing before free-agency and the draft.

And the fans wouldn't complain as much about not getting a WR if the team was doing better than they did this season.


I never judge a coach by what he says at a press conference or to reporters. Some people aren't built to do that. I know I've been frustrated or just stupid and said ignorant, dumb things, mine just weren't caught on tape.

Yeah, but the "arena football" remark just kinda verified his offensive philosophy.

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:38 AM
So, if the Patriots said we could have Bellichik for a second round pick, you wouldn't want to do that?

I'm a big Belichick fan but, no, I wouldn't. The team needs more help right now than hiring a coach will fix. Now, if we could give the Patriots a second round pick and they'd trade GM's I'd be all for it.

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 03:41 AM
I'm a big Belichick fan but, no, I wouldn't. The team needs more help right now than hiring a coach will fix. Now, if we could give the Patriots a second round pick and they'd trade GM's I'd be all for it.

...But, hiring a real head coach could go a long way towards fixing at least some of the problems we have.

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:42 AM
Yeah, but the "arena football" remark just kinda verified his offensive philosophy.

I can't comment on that, brother. I never heard it or read it. I do know that if a coach says something stupid and he's winning, he's just considered quirky. If we had a coach that won us ballgames he could come out cussing me and I wouldn't care.

garciakcfan
01-03-2008, 03:42 AM
Another thought too is the fact that some drafts have more talent in certain areas than others, they also grade players and take the best player on the board at the time. Anyways I'm going to bed 10 days in a row at work with new years included and im whipped one more day then the weekend off... Its almost unheard of in the restaurant business...Ciao!!

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:43 AM
Thank God you aren't a Head Coach in the NFL then!

:bananen_smilies046: :lol:

I would definitely not be good, but I'd be entertaining.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 03:43 AM
I'm a big Belichick fan but, no, I wouldn't. The team needs more help right now than hiring a coach will fix. Now, if we could give the Patriots a second round pick and they'd trade GM's I'd be all for it.

That's where you lose me guy.

The biggest problem right now is the coach.

The O line is second, and the QB is third.

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 03:48 AM
Another thought too is the fact that some drafts have more talent in certain areas than others, they also grade players and take the best player on the board at the time. Anyways I'm going to bed 10 days in a row at work with new years included and im whipped one more day then the weekend off... Its almost unheard of in the restaurant business...Ciao!!

It takes a man to admit this. :lol:

Admitting the problem is half the battle. :D
j/k

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:50 AM
...But, hiring a real head coach could go a long way towards fixing at least some of the problems we have.

I used to build trailers for a living and to make extra money I'd build some on the side. One time a guy wanted me to build him one and he told me he'd get all the parts. He did, problem was they weren't all right. I built the trailer, but it definitely wasn't a good trailer. I did the best with what I was given. Until Carl starts letting the coaches get who they want, I'm not holding any coach responsible. Everyone knows that Vermeil didn't like the LJ pick. Why would a GM pick a player in the first round that his coach didn't want?

hermhater
01-03-2008, 03:50 AM
I would definitely not be good, but I'd be entertaining.

Give me your version of entertainment.

QB's on the ground after every play?

hermhater
01-03-2008, 03:54 AM
I used to build trailers for a living and to make extra money I'd build some on the side. One time a guy wanted me to build him one and he told me he'd get all the parts. He did, problem was they weren't all right. I built the trailer, but it definitely wasn't a good trailer. I did the best with what I was given. Until Carl starts letting the coaches get who they want, I'm not holding any coach responsible. Everyone knows that Vermeil didn't like the LJ pick. Why would a GM pick a player in the first round that his coach didn't want?

Not much you can do about that, but I doubt that is relevant to the NFL.

Parts of an inanimate object can't be changed, nor adapted.

If you're still arguing the Carl point then it is worthless.

He has a strangle hold on the Chiefs.

prough91
01-03-2008, 03:55 AM
That's where you lose me guy.

The biggest problem right now is the coach.

The O line is second, and the QB is third.

I don't see it that way. IMO, the o-line is by far the most pressing need right now. Also, another need I feel needs to be addressed is a kicker. I know it's not the sexiest of positions, but a good kicker can make a mediocre team a lot better.

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 03:56 AM
I used to build trailers for a living and to make extra money I'd build some on the side. One time a guy wanted me to build him one and he told me he'd get all the parts. He did, problem was they weren't all right. I built the trailer, but it definitely wasn't a good trailer. I did the best with what I was given. Until Carl starts letting the coaches get who they want, I'm not holding any coach responsible. Everyone knows that Vermeil didn't like the LJ pick. Why would a GM pick a player in the first round that his coach didn't want?

Agreed, and good post.

...But, Vermeil found a way to plug him into the offense when Priest went down.

Guru
01-03-2008, 03:56 AM
Who am I kidding? I would have done it for a grand and half a sub sandwich.
Damn, you're high on yourself.:D

prough91
01-03-2008, 04:00 AM
Give me your version of entertainment.

QB's on the ground after every play?

I wouldn't even have a punter or kicker. Either we score a touchdown or we give the ball up on downs. 67% of my plays would be gadget plays. I would hold one of your cats the whole time on the sideline just so the other team would get distracted wondering why I was holding a cat. If someone screwed up in a game, I would make them do pushups or run laps around the field right there and then. And, finally, I would wear such flashy suits on the sidelines that even Deion would be jealous. Now, tell me that wouldn't be entertaining. Remember, I said I wouldn't be good. I just guaranteed entertaining.

prough91
01-03-2008, 04:03 AM
Agreed, and good post.

...But, Vermeil found a way to plug him into the offense when Priest went down.

Yeah, we were lucky we had him then, but really Carl just lucked out. Who else here wondered what the crap they were doing when they drafted LJ in the first round when we had Priest? I understand he was getting older, but he had a few years in him and he had been healthy for us up until then.

prough91
01-03-2008, 04:04 AM
Damn, you're high on yourself.:D

You're right. I would have done it for just the sub.

hermhater
01-03-2008, 04:07 AM
I wouldn't even have a punter or kicker. Either we score a touchdown or we give the ball up on downs. 67% of my plays would be gadget plays. I would hold one of your cats the whole time on the sideline just so the other team would get distracted wondering why I was holding a cat. If someone screwed up in a game, I would make them do pushups or run laps around the field right there and then. And, finally, I would wear such flashy suits on the sidelines that even Deion would be jealous. Now, tell me that wouldn't be entertaining. Remember, I said I wouldn't be good. I just guaranteed entertaining.


That is good stuff man!

I especially like the part about making players run laps when they screw the pooch.

And yes. you would be entertaining.


:lol:

Guru
01-03-2008, 04:10 AM
You're right. I would have done it for just the sub.

Yeah but a subway sub is still a little much to demand. Maybe a Walmart sub might be more on your level. :D

hermhater
01-03-2008, 04:13 AM
That struck me funny somehow.

:lol:

Chiefster
01-03-2008, 04:22 AM
Yeah but a subway sub is still a little much to demand. Maybe a Walmart sub might be more on your level. :D

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/15.jpg

prough91
01-03-2008, 04:25 AM
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/15.jpg

That has got to be from an Arkansan newspaper.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii307/prough91/hillbilly.jpg

hermhater
01-03-2008, 04:29 AM
That has got to be from an Arkansan newspaper.

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/


Wal Mart is everywhere.

Don't dis the low prices man.

chief31
01-03-2008, 05:10 AM
Yeah, we were lucky we had him then, but really Carl just lucked out. Who else here wondered what the crap they were doing when they drafted LJ in the first round when we had Priest? I understand he was getting older, but he had a few years in him and he had been healthy for us up until then.

I still dislike that decision. I think just about anyone would have done a pretty good job of running the ball at that time.