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hermhater
01-11-2008, 01:55 AM
One on One: Jared Allen Part II http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/01/70.jpg
Dick Whipple - AP

By Nick Athan (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:location.href=%27http://search.scout.com/a.z?s=66&p=4&c=1&search=1&sskey=%22%27%20+%20escape%28%27Nick%20Athan%27%29% 20+%20%27%22&sssiteid=66%27;)
Warpaint Illustrated Publisher
Posted Jan 10, 2008



In Part II of our exclusive interview with Jared Allen, the All-Pro defensive end talks about his coaching staff and his upcoming contract negotiations.

Warpaint Illustrated: Youíve stated many times that you love Kansas City and want to retire a Chief. Do you still feel that way?

Jared Allen (http://oak.scout.com/a.z?s=66&p=8&c=1&nid=2980078): A year ago there was no doubt in my mind that was the most important thing to me. Now, I love the community, I love my coaching staff, but thatís about as far as it goes right now.

I donít want to say itís not personal and itís not about money, but the reality is there is a business side. Day in and day out I come to work and I give it all. I give everything Iíve got to this organization. What happened with me, I felt like I got burnt. I was led to believe one thing, in my mind, and something else happened.

Itís one of those things where, you know what, just all I ask is not to be lied to. You can tell me this is what youíre going to do, and if you do it Iím not going to be mad. It was like if your parents tell you youíre going to get a bike for Christmas, and you get a remote control car or a hot wheel. All I wanted was a red bike, why would you tell me I was getting a bike if you got me a hot wheel? Thatís kind of what it was. It was just like a let down. Hereís an organization that I go all out for, and I felt like an idiot.

Iíve always honored my contract. Iíve played out every contract Iíve ever had here and never missed anything I was under contract to be in. Itís going to be a tough decision, whatever happens. Most likely theyíll franchise me and Iíll end up being here, but I expect that now. Going through that experience, thatís what I expect, so Iím not going to be throwing a fit.

I want to retire a Kansas City Chief. It could have been easily done, and it can still be easily done, but it hasnít been done. Iíve put four years of blood, sweat, and tears in on the practice field and in the community. I donít want to walk away with nothing from that. Iíd like to stay and accomplish something with that, but I feel bad for guys like Tony (Gonzalez). Tony has played at an elite level throughout his career, the best ever, in my opinion, and he doesnít have a championship. Iím a piece of the puzzle that can help him accomplish that goal, and he can help me accomplish that goal.

Thatís the part of the NFL I hate. I have to make that selfish decision at one point if I have the opportunity to go to a team that can win a Super Bowl. I can be a part of that puzzle, but now Iím taking away from a friend of mine, a guy who Iíve been through the ups and downs with.

WPI: Iíve had several conversations with Herm Edwards, and he's clearly in your corner. How has your relationship with him helped you deal with your off-the-field issues?

Allen: Hermís the reason I came back. Herm came to my charity event in May and we had a conversation and heís the only reason I came back to the OTAs and mini-camp. The coaching staff is the reason I came back.

No matter what my feelings are with management, Iím going to do whatever I have to do to help us win a championship.

Thatís the relationship I have with Herm. I donít think Herm would lie to me, I donít think Gunther would lie to me.

WPI: What would you miss if you left Kansas City?

Allen: My friends. My best friend, my brother lives here, and hopefully I can drag him wherever I go. Iíve got a core of people here that mean the world to me.

WPI: Do you feel youíll be a member of the Kansas City Chiefs in 2008?

Allen: Itís probably like 90/10 because of that damn franchise tag. Either way it goes itís been a great four years here, it really has. If Iím a Chief, I look forward to playing at Arrowhead, itís one of the greatest stadiums to play in. My coaching staff is awesome. Defensively, we have one of the greatest coaching staffs I could ever ask for. Tim Krumrie, I love that guy. Herm doesnít treat everybody the same, but he treats everybody fair. Nobody on that side has burned any bridges, so I will do whatever it takes to play for those guys and Iíll give it all for them. Itís been fun, so hopefully it can continue.

WPI: How frustrating is it for you to have to come to terms with the business side of the NFL Ė especially when you consider the incredible year you had on the field?

Allen: From a sheer business side and football side, Iíve got to do whatís right for myself and my family down the road. Football players arenít living all that long these days so Iíve got to at least enjoy my life. Iíve got to make sure I do the right thing for the person that comes behind me.

If I take a crappy deal, if I go ahead and say ĎIím going to play for this and this and this,í and I have these top end numbers? Now all of a sudden the next guy that comes up, Iím giving the league, which takes so much from us Ė letís face it, the players are the bottom of the barrel in the NFL. We donít get tickets, weíve got to buy our own stuff and I could go on and on with the complaints. But if I do that, then Iím letting the league and the owners and stuff steal more back from us, and thatís part of the reason you have to get what you deserve.

Youíve got to get fair market value. Iím not trying to be unfair, we just want fair market value. The cap keeps going up, so everything should go up. Thatís the one thing I think of, is the players coming behind me. If a guy coming behind me has my numbers or better than my numbers, he deserves to be compensated for that. You never know when that last snap is. You never know when youíre going to have to go out and become part of the real world. We give so much of our own self, thatís what people donít realize. The physical demands on our body, we are giving ourselves up.

The average life expectancy of an NFL player is, I believe, 53, or something like that. Hell, we donít even get our 401K until weíre 55. So weíre screwed off the bat, let alone medical insurance after we get done playing.

I have to make sure the guy behind me, Iím setting a precedent for him, and Iím not screwing somebody down the road. I have to value what Iím worth and what Iíve given to the game.

Click here to read the first part of our exclusive chat with Jared Allen (http://kan.scout.com/2/718545.html)


http://oak.scout.com/a.z?s=66&p=2&c=718867

prough91
01-11-2008, 02:02 AM
I like Jared Allen, but he did make $425,000 playing football. I absolutely hate hearing about players wanting fair market value and the such, I don't care how much money the owners are making. It's a game and they're getting payed to play it.

chief31
01-11-2008, 02:06 AM
I like Jared Allen, but he did make $425,000 playing football. I absolutely hate hearing about players wanting fair market value and the such, I don't care how much money the owners are making. It's a game and they're getting payed to play it.

And you don't mind that the owners aren't even having to play to make what they make? If you are going to complain about one group of millionaires complaining about money, then shouldn't you also be upset with the billionaires that are complaining about money?

prough91
01-11-2008, 02:10 AM
And you don't mind that the owners aren't even having to play to make what they make? If you are going to complain about one group of millionaires complaining about money, then shouldn't you also be upset with the billionaires that are complaining about money?

The way I look at it is, the owner's put up the money to buy the franchise or start the team. They have a right to reap the rewards of their investment and I could see why they would want to get players as cheap as they can to keep their money. Also, I haven't heard any billionaires complaining about money.

hermhater
01-11-2008, 02:12 AM
f I take a crappy deal, if I go ahead and say ĎIím going to play for this and this and this,í and I have these top end numbers? Now all of a sudden the next guy that comes up, Iím giving the league, which takes so much from us Ė letís face it, the players are the bottom of the barrel in the NFL. We donít get tickets, weíve got to buy our own stuff and I could go on and on with the complaints.That spells it all out for me.

hermhater
01-11-2008, 02:14 AM
The way I look at it is, the owner's put up the money to buy the franchise or start the team. They have a right to reap the rewards of their investment and I could see why they would want to get players as cheap as they can to keep their money. Also, I haven't heard any billionaires complaining about money.

That's called exploitation.

chief31
01-11-2008, 02:14 AM
The way I look at it is, the owner's put up the money to buy the franchise or start the team. They have a right to reap the rewards of their investment and I could see why they would want to get players as cheap as they can to keep their money. Also, I haven't heard any billionaires complaining about money.

O.k., so the owners putting up money is far more deserving of a reward than a player who puts up his body?

Also, every time there is a contract dispute, it is because some millionaire is fighting for dollars with some billionaire. The fact that people don't care what the billionaire has to say is why you don't hear much about it. Eveyone would rather be salty at the player, whos name they know, and they see what that person does for a living.

prough91
01-11-2008, 02:23 AM
O.k., so the owners putting up money is far more deserving of a reward than a player who puts up his body?

Also, every time there is a contract dispute, it is because some millionaire is fighting for dollars with some billionaire. The fact that people don't care what the billionaire has to say is why you don't hear much about it. Eveyone would rather be salty at the player, whos name they know, and they see what that person does for a living.

I think we bumped heads over the ex-NFL players getting reimbursed too, didn't we? They don't have to play the game of football. Nowadays, unless they came out early, most football players have a college degree (that was also free).

I know I struggle everyday to make it and it makes me angry when players complain about how much their paid, when I would play for a whole lot less.

It's the same as any other company, the owners and executives get paid the big bucks when the people doing the work get paid little, no matter how good they are at their job. I worked at a company where I was by far the best employee they had, but I got paid the same as everyone else. It's life. It sucks. Get over it.

Ooops I didn't mean that last part directly at you, I was just talking in general.

hermhater
01-11-2008, 02:35 AM
I think we bumped heads over the ex-NFL players getting reimbursed too, didn't we? They don't have to play the game of football. Nowadays, unless they came out early, most football players have a college degree (that was also free).

I know I struggle everyday to make it and it makes me angry when players complain about how much their paid, when I would play for a whole lot less.

It's the same as any other company, the owners and executives get paid the big bucks when the people doing the work get paid little, no matter how good they are at their job. I worked at a company where I was by far the best employee they had, but I got paid the same as everyone else. It's life. It sucks. Get over it.

Ooops I didn't mean that last part directly at you, I was just talking in general.

You were exploited then.

Exploitation is a sin.

No offense chief31, or prough, but I am a poor guy just like you guys.

I have worked for folks that have profited ENORMOUSLY from the minimal salary I received and had had no compensation.

I understand we live in a consumerist society, but there needs to be folks that stand up to greed.

Even at the highest level, such as the NFL.

prough91
01-11-2008, 02:38 AM
You were exploited then.

Exploitation is a sin.

No offense chief31, or prough, but I am a poor guy just like you guys.

I have worked for folks that have profited ENORMOUSLY from the minimal salary I received and had had no compensation.

I understand we live in a consumerist society, but there needs to be folks that stand up to greed.

Even at the highest level, such as the NFL.

Only bad part is, the people that can afford to stand up to greed are the people who are rich from greed.

:yahoo:

hermhater
01-11-2008, 02:41 AM
Only bad part is, the people that can afford to stand up to greed are the people who are rich from greed.

:yahoo:


Agreed!


:D

prough91
01-11-2008, 02:43 AM
Agreed!


:D

That was punny.

hermhater
01-11-2008, 02:49 AM
Agreed!


:D


That was punny.

Not really.

I would say it's more of an optical illusion.


:lol:

chief31
01-11-2008, 04:01 AM
I think we bumped heads over the ex-NFL players getting reimbursed too, didn't we? They don't have to play the game of football. Nowadays, unless they came out early, most football players have a college degree (that was also free).

I know I struggle everyday to make it and it makes me angry when players complain about how much their paid, when I would play for a whole lot less.

It's the same as any other company, the owners and executives get paid the big bucks when the people doing the work get paid little, no matter how good they are at their job. I worked at a company where I was by far the best employee they had, but I got paid the same as everyone else. It's life. It sucks. Get over it.

Ooops I didn't mean that last part directly at you, I was just talking in general.


Just because it has always been that way, doesn't make it right. I too am jealous of the money that those players get for playing my favorite game, but I don't take the side of the evil empire against them.

I don't see how an owner risking most of his wealth on a business is nearly as deserving of the massive rewards he gets from it, as those that the players go after, for risking their bodies.

I just don't get how you can take the side of the billionaire who does nothing, takes no real risk, against the men who are the actual product. I prefer that the money I pay to see a game goes to the players, as much as possible, over some billionaire that I don't find rewmotely entertaining.

Again, I am jealous of the pay the players get, but if the fans are paying enough, and we certainly are, then the players should be getting what we are willing to spend on them.

rbedgood
01-11-2008, 10:58 AM
The way I look at it is, the owner's put up the money to buy the franchise or start the team. They have a right to reap the rewards of their investment and I could see why they would want to get players as cheap as they can to keep their money. Also, I haven't heard any billionaires complaining about money.


Sure you have...just watch the whole NFL Network situation...that's all about money for the owners. I don't have any problems with the players trying to get more money. As long as they play in an environment where the owners can drop them and not pay the remainder of a contract, then I say a player holding out, or going for the max in free agency is just part of the game.

DrunkHillbilly
01-11-2008, 11:40 AM
Just because it has always been that way, doesn't make it right. I too am jealous of the money that those players get for playing my favorite game, but I don't take the side of the evil empire against them.

I don't see how an owner risking most of his wealth on a business is nearly as deserving of the massive rewards he gets from it, as those that the players go after, for risking their bodies.

I just don't get how you can take the side of the billionaire who does nothing, takes no real risk, against the men who are the actual product. I prefer that the money I pay to see a game goes to the players, as much as possible, over some billionaire that I don't find rewmotely entertaining.

Again, I am jealous of the pay the players get, but if the fans are paying enough, and we certainly are, then the players should be getting what we are willing to spend on them.
IMO, owners are owners for a reason. Players are players for a reason. Just like in any other profession whether it be a pro athlete or a waitress, if you don't like your pay, get a new job with better pay. In the case of the athlete, if you want more money you have 2 options. Sign a better contract orrrrrr by a franchise.

DrunkHillbilly
01-11-2008, 11:44 AM
Sure you have...just watch the whole NFL Network situation...that's all about money for the owners. I don't have any problems with the players trying to get more money. As long as they play in an environment where the owners can drop them and not pay the remainder of a contract, then I say a player holding out, or going for the max in free agency is just part of the game.
As far as the environment of owners dropping players without paying the remainder of monies owed, the players have nobody to blame but themselves for this. The players union got burned on this! The owners definetly have the upper hand in this league.

hermhater
01-11-2008, 03:35 PM
IMO, owners are owners for a reason. Players are players for a reason. Just like in any other profession whether it be a pro athlete or a waitress, if you don't like your pay, get a new job with better pay. In the case of the athlete, if you want more money you have 2 options. Sign a better contract orrrrrr by a franchise.

Because they inherited a team?

Typical business owner talk.

Exploitation.

Canada
01-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Hey....if the owners don't make money, then the NFL does not exist. They are all overpaid and we are the ones who are overpaying them. If you disagree with it, then stop paying for merchandise, NFL Network, and tickets to games. Millionaires arguing with millionaires over who gets my money. I give it to them so i don't complain about it. they are all overpaid.

DrunkHillbilly
01-11-2008, 08:02 PM
Because they inherited a team?

Typical business owner talk.

Exploitation.
Typical jealousy talk.

Should they let people in for free, give away merchandise, open concession stands, free access to the locker room ect..?? People are exploited everyday in every line of business. Been goin on since the beginning of time! Did Lamar Hunt inherit the team? He was doing the same thing as every other owner in the business as well he should.

hermhater
01-11-2008, 08:19 PM
Typical jealousy talk.

Should they let people in for free, give away merchandise, open concession stands, free access to the locker room ect..?? People are exploited everyday in every line of business. Been goin on since the beginning of time! Did Lamar Hunt inherit the team? He was doing the same thing as every other owner in the business as well he should.

As chief31 said before me, just because it's going on doesn't make it right.

Lazeye
01-11-2008, 10:07 PM
I see nothing wrong in the way allen feels, lets think about this now. We all have had jobs in which we could earn a raise for going above and beyond oue normal job description. Is it allens fault that the industry he works in that the starting wage so high that when a raise is due or bonus that they want what they deserve just the way we do in our normal job. I bet we have all had conversations just before a review on how much it was going to go up if it does and we all know that allen deserves some more from the cow due to his performence.

DrunkHillbilly
01-11-2008, 10:08 PM
As chief31 said before me, just because it's going on doesn't make it right.
I don't know what's so wrong about it. Somebody has to be the boss or owner of everything. It's lonely at the top. People will always ***** about not making enough money except the one's that are providing jobs to those people and even they ***** about it once in a while!

If you and chiefs31 think hundreds of millions of dollars is no real risk, then I guess I need to get a job from one of you because I would consider that a big risk. I know I know they have it to spend and the team is going to generate money but isn't that what we are talking about? Owners generating too much money. As far as not deserving the massive rewards goes, he is providing jobs for the guy taking a beating every day for their millions. Can you blame any of the owners? If anyone says they wouldn't do the same is not being truthful!

Chiefster
01-11-2008, 10:10 PM
Ahhh; Nick the erroneous one Athan. :rolleyes:

chief31
01-12-2008, 11:30 AM
As far as the environment of owners dropping players without paying the remainder of monies owed, the players have nobody to blame but themselves for this. The players union got burned on this! The owners definetly have the upper hand in this league.

Yes,they certainlydo.That is why Ihave noproblemwith the players doing everything that they can to get as much out of it as possible. At least they are working for it.


I don't know what's so wrong about it. Somebody has to be the boss or owner of everything. It's lonely at the top. People will always ***** about not making enough money except the one's that are providing jobs to those people and even they ***** about it once in a while!

If you and chiefs31 think hundreds of millions of dollars is no real risk, then I guess I need to get a job from one of you because I would consider that a big risk. I know I know they have it to spend and the team is going to generate money but isn't that what we are talking about? Owners generating too much money. As far as not deserving the massive rewards goes, he is providing jobs for the guy taking a beating every day for their millions. Can you blame any of the owners? If anyone says they wouldn't do the same is not being truthful!

Right. Anyone suggesting that they have scruples-enough to play fair is an obvious liar. I assume that that was a joke.

And, no amount of money is as big a risk as risking ones health,well-being and life.

As I said before, When I pay for tickets, or jerseys,or whatever NFL product I may buy, I would prefer that the players get as much of the revenues as possile. I watch the players, not the owners. In fact, I have never been very entertained by an owner.(Dan Snyder, a little. :D ) When I pay for entertainment, why wouldn't the entertainers get most of the money?

DrunkHillbilly
01-12-2008, 11:55 AM
Yes,they certainlydo.That is why Ihave noproblemwith the players doing everything that they can to get as much out of it as possible. At least they are working for it.



Right. Anyone suggesting that they have scruples-enough to play fair is an obvious liar. I assume that that was a joke.

And, no amount of money is as big a risk as risking ones health,well-being and life.

As I said before, When I pay for tickets, or jerseys,or whatever NFL product I may buy, I would prefer that the players get as much of the revenues as possile. I watch the players, not the owners. In fact, I have never been very entertained by an owner.(Dan Snyder, a little. :D ) When I pay for entertainment, why wouldn't the entertainers get most of the money?
So I guess your telling me that if you had the oppurtunity to own an NFL franchise you wouldn't?? Or maybe you would and then you would turn most of your profits over to the players. Just own it for the sake of owning it huh?

The owners get the lions share because that's how life is! When you go out to eat tonight, make sure you tell the owner of the restaurant that you want your money to go to the employees only! Right! It happens in everyday life and there's nothing wrong with it. Like Canada said, if there were no owners, there would be no NFL. I have no problem either with players trying to get all they can but if the millions they are making already aren't enough, then sign a more lucrative contract the next time around, change the players union so you can get guaranteed money or go get a real job like everyone else.

chief31
01-12-2008, 01:07 PM
So I guess your telling me that if you had the oppurtunity to own an NFL franchise you wouldn't?? Or maybe you would and then you would turn most of your profits over to the players. Just own it for the sake of owning it huh?

The owners get the lions share because that's how life is! When you go out to eat tonight, make sure you tell the owner of the restaurant that you want your money to go to the employees only! Right! It happens in everyday life and there's nothing wrong with it. Like Canada said, if there were no owners, there would be no NFL. I have no problem either with players trying to get all they can but if the millions they are making already aren't enough, then sign a more lucrative contract the next time around, change the players union so you can get guaranteed money or go get a real job like everyone else.


Or do everything in your power to get more. If you think it's o.k. for owners to take every advantage that they can, thyen it's ok for the players too. If you have to ***** and moan, and hold-out for more money, then do what you have to do.

As far as your example of my owning a franchise, there is a not so fine line between what most owners profit, and a zero, as you suggested. The way you exaggerate makes having a discussion with you pointless.

DrunkHillbilly
01-12-2008, 02:30 PM
Or do everything in your power to get more. If you think it's o.k. for owners to take every advantage that they can, thyen it's ok for the players too. If you have to ***** and moan, and hold-out for more money, then do what you have to do.

As far as your example of my owning a franchise, there is a not so fine line between what most owners profit, and a zero, as you suggested. The way you exaggerate makes having a discussion with you pointless.
I believe what I said was "most" of the profit. I told you I agreed with players doing whatever they could to get more. That's why you never once heard me ***** about LJ holding out! Right? There is NO exaggeration in my post at all! You just don't agree even though you know that's how life is. Go in to your boss tomorrow and tell him you don't think it's right for him to get most of the money for the goods or service "his" company provides and you think you should get more money than he because you and your coworkers do all the work to get him that money. Sounds wierd huh? I don't understand how people don't realize this is how things work. It's nothing new. Exploytation???? How about the real world?

Tell me how you, if given the oppurtunity, would do things differently than all the other owners in the league or world for that matter. Keep in mind, they are part of a union as well.

Canada
01-12-2008, 04:41 PM
I would pay my good players and not keep extra cap money in my pocket and try to put a better product on the field.

DrunkHillbilly
01-12-2008, 07:51 PM
I would pay my good players and not keep extra cap money in my pocket and try to put a better product on the field.
Agreed!!! Their always under the cap.

chief31
01-13-2008, 11:28 AM
I believe what I said was "most" of the profit. I told you I agreed with players doing whatever they could to get more. That's why you never once heard me ***** about LJ holding out! Right? There is NO exaggeration in my post at all! You just don't agree even though you know that's how life is. Go in to your boss tomorrow and tell him you don't think it's right for him to get most of the money for the goods or service "his" company provides and you think you should get more money than he because you and your coworkers do all the work to get him that money. Sounds wierd huh? I don't understand how people don't realize this is how things work. It's nothing new. Exploytation???? How about the real world?

Tell me how you, if given the oppurtunity, would do things differently than all the other owners in the league or world for that matter. Keep in mind, they are part of a union as well.

That is exactly what I am saying. Just because you choose to take the mantallity that "everyone else is doing it" doesn't change the fact that it is exploitation.

But that isn't what this discussion was about. It was about players complaining aout money, and I took the stance of not blaming the players.

The fact is that I favor the players in financial disputes over the owners, because I think that those who actually supply the product are frequently abused by ownership.

As far as going to my boss and demanding more money, (Not more than he makes, that was your exaggeration.) first off, my bosses, the ones who have any say in that matter, never show their faces around employees, let alone actually listen to anything that they might say. Therefore, we have a union. And, as a matter of fact, they do make demands for more pay to go to the employees on a regular basis, and it doesn't sound weird at all.

Caterpillar is a huge corporation with shareholders as the owners. I despise that type of corporation because they have such a huge impact on their employees' lives, and yet they couldn't possily care any less about those lives.

Corporate ownership breeds oxploitation. If the huge corporation finds a way to pay people ten dollars an hour less than what they do now, do the owners mind? No. They rejoice in the extra profits that they will gain.

Meanwhile, the employees become less and less financially capable, and their children are born into even bigger disadvantage.

That is exploitation, forcing people into financial prison. Just say that you think exploitation is a good thing and we can agree to disagree.

For me, ruining peoples lives for an extra dollar, when you have plenty, is morally wrong. Most people just close their eyes to it and act like they aren't responsible.

Canada
01-13-2008, 11:44 AM
That is exactly what I am saying. Just because you choose to take the mantallity that "everyone else is doing it" doesn't change the fact that it is exploitation.

But that isn't what this discussion was about. It was about players complaining aout money, and I took the stance of not blaming the players.

The fact is that I favor the players in financial disputes over the owners, because I think that those who actually supply the product are frequently abused by ownership.

As far as going to my boss and demanding more money, (Not more than he makes, that was your exaggeration.) first off, my bosses, the ones who have any say in that matter, never show their faces around employees, let alone actually listen to anything that they might say. Therefore, we have a union. And, as a matter of fact, they do make demands for more pay to go to the employees on a regular basis, and it doesn't sound weird at all.

Caterpillar is a huge corporation with shareholders as the owners. I despise that type of corporation because they have such a huge impact on their employees' lives, and yet they couldn't possily care any less about those lives.

Corporate ownership breeds oxploitation. If the huge corporation finds a way to pay people ten dollars an hour less than what they do now, do the owners mind? No. They rejoice in the extra profits that they will gain.

Meanwhile, the employees become less and less financially capable, and their children are born into even bigger disadvantage.

That is exploitation, forcing people into financial prison. Just say that you think exploitation is a good thing and we can agree to disagree.

For me, ruining peoples lives for an extra dollar, when you have plenty, is morally wrong. Most people just close their eyes to it and act like they aren't responsible.

Great post, but I do not think that the players are in any way abused by owners around the league. Especially premiere players (ie Tom Brady, Peyton Manning)

chief31
01-13-2008, 01:10 PM
Great post, but I do not think that the players are in any way abused by owners around the league. Especially premiere players (ie Tom Brady, Peyton Manning)

Right, the argument strayed off topic some, and obviously, current players are far from being sent to any poor-houses.

That came from the comparison to my job, from hillilly.

DrunkHillbilly
01-13-2008, 08:47 PM
That is exactly what I am saying. Just because you choose to take the mantallity that "everyone else is doing it" doesn't change the fact that it is exploitation.

But that isn't what this discussion was about. It was about players complaining aout money, and I took the stance of not blaming the players.

The fact is that I favor the players in financial disputes over the owners, because I think that those who actually supply the product are frequently abused by ownership.

As far as going to my boss and demanding more money, (Not more than he makes, that was your exaggeration.) first off, my bosses, the ones who have any say in that matter, never show their faces around employees, let alone actually listen to anything that they might say. Therefore, we have a union. And, as a matter of fact, they do make demands for more pay to go to the employees on a regular basis, and it doesn't sound weird at all.

Caterpillar is a huge corporation with shareholders as the owners. I despise that type of corporation because they have such a huge impact on their employees' lives, and yet they couldn't possily care any less about those lives.

Corporate ownership breeds oxploitation. If the huge corporation finds a way to pay people ten dollars an hour less than what they do now, do the owners mind? No. They rejoice in the extra profits that they will gain.

Meanwhile, the employees become less and less financially capable, and their children are born into even bigger disadvantage.

That is exploitation, forcing people into financial prison. Just say that you think exploitation is a good thing and we can agree to disagree.

For me, ruining peoples lives for an extra dollar, when you have plenty, is morally wrong. Most people just close their eyes to it and act like they aren't responsible.
I don't know that I agree or disagree with exploitation. It's part of life. I guess it depends on which side of the fence you stand. I hardly think any NFL players lives are being ruined.