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View Full Version : Defense Doesn't Win Championships????



garciakcfan
02-04-2008, 11:53 AM
For all of you offensive lovers and pass happy fans out there. Brady got sacked 5 times and the "pass" happy patriots got held to 275 total yards!!! Oh yeah they also lost..... Just goes to show that I will take a strong defense over a great offense any day of the week...

jerhart
02-04-2008, 12:29 PM
For all of you offensive lovers and pass happy fans out there. Brady got sacked 5 times and the "pass" happy patriots got held to 275 total yards!!! Oh yeah they also lost..... Just goes to show that I will take a strong defense over a great offense any day of the week...

Amen. :11:

chief31
02-04-2008, 12:38 PM
For all of you offensive lovers and pass happy fans out there. Brady got sacked 5 times and the "pass" happy patriots got held to 275 total yards!!! Oh yeah they also lost..... Just goes to show that I will take a strong defense over a great offense any day of the week...

Oh get over it. The Giants team is built around offense, and they won a Super Bowl.

Let's quit pretending that the defensive juggernaut, that the Giants are so well known to be, is what that team is all about.

It was one game, when the Patriots' offense finally had a bad week.

Just for s***s and giggles, though, let's examine the mighty powerhouse defense that the Giants have been concentrating on so hard for so many years.


Well, why bother? They were ranked seventeenth in the NFL. In fact, they were the lowest ranked defense that made the playoffs.

The fact is that the Giants got everything going, right when they needed it most.

jerhart
02-04-2008, 12:42 PM
Oh get over it. The Giants team is built around offense, and they won a Super Bowl.

Let's quit pretending that the defensive juggernaut, that the Giants are so well known to be, is what that team is all about.

It was one game, when the Patriots' offense finally had a bad week.

Just for s***s and giggles, though, let's examine the mighty powerhouse defense that the Giants have been concentrating on so hard for so many years.


Well, why bother? They were ranked seventeenth in the NFL. In fact, they were the lowest ranked defense that made the playoffs.

The fact is that the Giants got everything going, right when they needed it most.


...and dont forget that the Giant shut down the highest scoring team in NFL history... :lol:

chief31
02-04-2008, 12:45 PM
...and dont forget that the Giant shut down the highest scoring team in NFL history... :lol:

Or did the greatest offense finally have a bad game?

Chiefster
02-04-2008, 02:15 PM
For all of you offensive lovers and pass happy fans out there. Brady got sacked 5 times and the "pass" happy patriots got held to 275 total yards!!! Oh yeah they also lost..... Just goes to show that I will take a strong defense over a great offense any day of the week...


So, what you're saying is that any day of the week you would "take a strong defense over a great offense"?







































Just checking. :D

Chiefster
02-04-2008, 02:16 PM
Personally, I would much prefer both.

Three7s
02-04-2008, 04:15 PM
No team has ever played and not had a weakness, even if just one. The Patriots had just one weakness all year. When pressure gets on Brady he has trouble, those are the games that have always been the closest for the Patriots.

No question, the Giants have the best pass rush in the NFL, the Giants figured out this weakness after they lost the first time to the Patriots. It's hard to beat a team twice, especially when they figure out that weakness. As it turns out, the Giants were the worst match up for the Patriots.

hermhater
02-04-2008, 08:15 PM
Seems like the Giants D was on their game yesterday and that was the deciding factor in the game.

I want an Offensive powerhouse with a average to decent defense (well I would love to have both be powerhouses, but this is the real world) so we win games and have some excitement on the field.

Congrats to the Giants, and I'm glad they did it without Tiki!

Canada
02-04-2008, 08:17 PM
For all of you offensive lovers and pass happy fans out there. Brady got sacked 5 times and the "pass" happy patriots got held to 275 total yards!!! Oh yeah they also lost..... Just goes to show that I will take a strong defense over a great offense any day of the week...

We had a strong defense last year...4-12

Chiefster
02-04-2008, 09:27 PM
We had a strong defense last year...4-12

Yep!

anaeelbackwards
02-04-2008, 09:28 PM
anyone see kawika mitchell out there>

Chiefster
02-04-2008, 09:29 PM
anyone see kawika mitchell out there>


Yes.

Canada
02-04-2008, 09:30 PM
The team with the most Chiefs players won!! I am not surprised at all!!

hermhater
02-04-2008, 11:23 PM
The team with the most Chiefs players won!! I am not surprised at all!!

Yep!

It took the (ex)Chiefs players to win it for them!

:yahoo:

Chiefster
02-05-2008, 12:40 AM
The team with the most Chiefs players won!! I am not surprised at all!!


Yep!

It took the (ex)Chiefs players to win it for them!

:yahoo:

I concur; very true observations.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 10:03 AM
I didn't say nor was I implying that the giants D was a juggarnaut. I was making the point that i've argued with so many people on here that a strong and inspired defense will beat a great offense. I'm just glad the Pats lost. Belli-cheat is such a sore loser with no class. The giants got hot when they needed to and played inspired football throughout. And it was nice to see that Tiki or Shockey had nothing to do with it.

chief31
02-05-2008, 10:51 AM
No team has ever played and not had a weakness, even if just one. The Patriots had just one weakness all year. When pressure gets on Brady he has trouble, those are the games that have always been the closest for the Patriots.

No question, the Giants have the best pass rush in the NFL, the Giants figured out this weakness after they lost the first time to the Patriots. It's hard to beat a team twice, especially when they figure out that weakness. As it turns out, the Giants were the worst match up for the Patriots.

I don't know that I would say that pass-protection was a weakness of the Patriots. They were awefully good in that area throughout the season. I think it was just a case of strength versus strength, where the Giants happened to get the better of that battle, this time.

Although the Giants' blitzing was extremely effective. Perhaps the Giants found something that could be exploited, as you say. But they were also beating them with the four-man rush.


I didn't say nor was I implying that the giants D was a juggarnaut. I was making the point that i've argued with so many people on here that a strong and inspired defense will beat a great offense. I'm just glad the Pats lost. Belli-cheat is such a sore loser with no class. The giants got hot when they needed to and played inspired football throughout. And it was nice to see that Tiki or Shockey had nothing to do with it.

All of the advantages seem to lean toward the offense. If your offense plays mistake-free football, then I don't think that any defense can stop you. (Provided fair talent levels.)

Whereas playing perfect defense still leaves room to be beaten. (Due to rules of the game.) Specifically in pass-coverage. The defense has to react to what the offensive players do. This means that the offensive player gets to make the first move, giving him the obvious advantage.

So, despite the fact that the Patriots finally got knocked off, I still think that that is the best team in the NFL.

And while I agree that you need to have a great defense to be the best team. For every '07 Bengals, there is an '06 Raiders.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 10:54 AM
This is a quote from chief31 on a different thread. Dont get mad at me chief just pokin at ya

Chief31 The saying that "defense wins championships" is no longer a valid concept. The league has made their choice, and offense is what now rules"

OH REALLY???

chief31
02-05-2008, 11:03 AM
This is a quote from chief31 on a different thread. Dont get mad at me chief just pokin at ya

Chief31 The saying that "defense wins championships" is no longer a valid concept. The league has made their choice, and offense is what now rules"

OH REALLY???

Yes. A one game let-down doesn't convince me otherwise.

The Patriots' offense really led the way for them to get to the Super Bowl, and then let them down. But because the got beat by defense in one game, overshadows the previous eightteen? Not for me.

chief31
02-05-2008, 11:12 AM
Also, if you'll notice, the Giants got away with an offensive pass interference that gave them their first field goal.

The fact that the league favors the offense when it comes to penalties played a very big part in that game. Especially when you consider that the Giants won by a field goal.

Were the league fair in how the rule on PI calls, then that play would have resulted in twenty yard penaly, with an automatic fourth down. (Seeing as how defensive PI is measured at the spot of the foul, and results in an automaitc first down.)

Just saying that despite the amazing pass-rush that the Giants managed in that game, the league rules and tendancies toward the offense made a very big difference in this game.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 11:14 AM
And the pats got a 1st and goal on the 1 yard line from a pass interference call as well. And scored. Are you a lawyer??? Maybe O.J.'s lawyer??

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 11:15 AM
Oh wait, maybe you're Skip Bayless????

chief31
02-05-2008, 11:25 AM
And the pats got a 1st and goal on the 1 yard line from a pass interference call as well. And scored. Are you a lawyer??? Maybe O.J.'s lawyer??

That call was legit. Whereas the non-call for Toomer was missed due to the NFLs tendancy to assist the offense.

And the Pats were already very near the endzone when they got that PI call. But I still think that those should be half the distance to the goal, as any other penalty would be.

Canada
02-05-2008, 11:26 AM
Either way, balance is what wins championships boys!! Can't have one without the other and be successful.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 11:30 AM
Maybe they just wanted them to "play" and werent going to call tit for tat calls. For the end zone play I think the pats were on the 20 or somewhere around there.

DrunkHillbilly
02-05-2008, 11:33 AM
The bottom line is that the Giants D played well and won them the game. I definetley think that D has a big role in winning championships but I also believe that had the offense been on it's game, the Pats would have won. Now you could say the reason they weren't on their game was because of the pass rush, however, I blame the O line and the O coordinator. It's not like it was a blow out! The Pats D played fairly well also! The play calling in the 2nd half was HORRIBLE for the Patriots!! Pass on a 48 yd field goal then, you need 13 yds with 35 seconds and you have 2 downs and you throw bombs on both looking for a spectacular catch or a penalty. Bad calls on all three plays!! The Patriots can manipulate any secondary in the league for 13 yds to the sidelines at any time they want. ANYTIME!!! Personally, I think they may have been a little greedy.

chief31
02-05-2008, 11:33 AM
Maybe they just wanted them to "play" and werent going to call tit for tat calls. For the end zone play I think the pats were on the 20 or somewhere around there.


All of the time? The NFL has been doing that for several years. Did you happen to see the PI call against the Jags when they played the Steelers in Divisional week?

DrunkHillbilly
02-05-2008, 11:34 AM
Maybe they just wanted them to "play" and werent going to call tit for tat calls. For the end zone play I think the pats were on the 20 or somewhere around there.
Really? Then why did they call it on the Pats? Come on man, You can't play both sides.

chief31
02-05-2008, 11:49 AM
No more obvious than when the reciever jacked the defender in his facemask, if you ask me.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 11:50 AM
Chief on the same play that you were talking about the pats got the interference call?? The toomer play.. I didnt see that play personally.

DrunkHillbilly
02-05-2008, 11:55 AM
No more obvious than when the reciever jacked the defender in his facemask, if you ask me.
That's my point. One was a penalty and one wasn't. He said maybe they were just going to let them play. Clearly not the case.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 11:57 AM
So, whats wrong with letting them play??? THE GUY GOT TACKLED IN THE END ZONE!!!!! And didnt even look at the ball. FOOTBALL IS PHYSICAL!!!!! Geez

chief31
02-05-2008, 12:01 PM
Chief on the same play that you were talking about the pats got the interference call?? The toomer play.. I didnt see that play personally.

The point isn't what team got the call, so much as which side of the ball gets the call. The league favors the offense. That is what I am talking about.

Can you even imagine a defensive player thumping a WR in his grill while the ball is in the air and not getting called?

But the single-most compelling example of the leagues favoritism toward the offense, (aside from the automatic first-downs, unlimitted penalty lengths, and the lack of "half the distance" rule) was the Hines Ward play, against the Jags.

YouTube - Hines Ward Facemask

This was on the playoff stage.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 12:06 PM
Good vid, should have been a no call for sure..Ill buy that

DrunkHillbilly
02-05-2008, 12:07 PM
Finally!! GEEZ!

chief31
02-05-2008, 12:08 PM
Good vid, should have been a no call for sure..Ill buy that


NO CALL?!?!?!?!

Are you an NFL official? That is a clear-cut case of offensive PI.

DrunkHillbilly
02-05-2008, 12:09 PM
NO CALL?!?!?!?!

Are you an NFL official? That is a clear-cut case of offensive PI.
UNBELEIVABLE HUH???? MY sarcasm runnith over in my last post!!!!

chief31
02-05-2008, 12:13 PM
That play occured on fourth and one too. While the Jaguars did still win that game, the league showed their colors yet again.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 12:15 PM
The defensive guy was holding him as well....Did you not see that too??

chief31
02-05-2008, 12:19 PM
The defensive guy was holding him as well....Did you not see that too??


Letme come up to you and grab ahold of your facemask, yank it around, and I wanna see you make no contact with me. Then try it when you are supposed to be jamming a reciever.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 12:23 PM
But if he didnt grab him dont you think it would have been offensive face mask??? Its an in the moment thing I understand that, but just think what would have happened if he just put his hands in the air. It would have been more obvious.

Canada
02-05-2008, 12:31 PM
But if he didnt grab him dont you think it would have been offensive face mask??? Its an in the moment thing I understand that, but just think what would have happened if he just put his hands in the air. It would have been more obvious.

So....give up the route and hope for a penalty??

chief31
02-05-2008, 12:33 PM
But if he didnt grab him dont you think it would have been offensive face mask??? Its an in the moment thing I understand that, but just think what would have happened if he just put his hands in the air. It would have been more obvious.


It was more than obvious anyway. And if he had thrown his hands up, Hines lets go quicker, and goes uncovered for the TD.

But all obviousness aside, the officials look for defensive PI, and look the other way for offensive PI. Or, just call defensive PI when an offensive PI occurs.

Have you ever noticed how offensive linemen are allowed to hit defenders in the head, but defensive players aren't?

How about the way that the ball-carrier is allowed to grab a defenders facemask, but the defenders can't?

They have the "in the grasp" rule, to protect the QB and penalize the defender for continuing to play once they have secured the QB. But they allow Vince Young to continue playing, after a defender does what the rules tell him to do, by letting go. (Mathias Kiwanuka)

It's O.K. for an offensive player to block a defender at the knees, but accidentally fall into a QBs legs and get fined, on top of the in-game penalty.

Lead with the helmet as a defensive player, and get penalized and fined. Do it as an offensive player, and get the extra yard.

The light that the NFL shines on the offense is blinding to some, but entirely obvious to others.

garciakcfan
02-05-2008, 12:44 PM
points well taken, I still think you're a lawyer

chief31
02-05-2008, 12:48 PM
points well taken, I still think you're a lawyer

I played that role here at the crowd once. I may have missed my calling.

Canada
02-05-2008, 12:50 PM
I played that role here at the crowd once. I may have missed my calling.

We have roles?? Whats mine??

chief31
02-05-2008, 12:57 PM
We have roles?? Whats mine??

Oh, quit playin'.You know that you are the resident beer spokesman.

Canada
02-05-2008, 01:03 PM
Oh, quit playin'.You know that you are the resident beer spokesman.

I guess....but my real passion is nutrition.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/meatsquare/meat/tecate_dog.jpg

Chiefster
02-05-2008, 03:06 PM
Oh, quit playin'.You know that you are the resident beer spokesman/ultimate beer consuming champion.

FYR :bananen_smilies046:

AkChief49
02-06-2008, 12:20 AM
Personally, I would much prefer both.
agree!! Balance is where it is at!! But I'm a Libra....:D

hermhater
02-06-2008, 12:49 AM
agree!! Balance is where it is at!! But I'm a Libra....:D

10/16

AkChief49
02-06-2008, 12:51 AM
10/1610/08

chief31
02-06-2008, 11:56 AM
10/16


10/08
10/11

Canada
02-06-2008, 12:04 PM
10/16


10/08


10/11

7/7 ....what are we doing?

chief31
02-06-2008, 12:07 PM
7/7 ....what are we doing?
Birthdays.

Canada
02-06-2008, 12:12 PM
Birthdays.

It's you birthday??

Happy birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday dear Chief31 ...i forget your real name cause I am really bad with names but I am pretty sure it starts with an R
Happy Birthday to yoooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!! :bananen_smilies046:

And I forgot to get you a present!! :yahoo:














I know it is not really your birthday!!

chief31
02-06-2008, 12:15 PM
It's you birthday??

Happy birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday dear Chief31 ...i forget your real name cause I am really bad with names but I am pretty sure it starts with an R
Happy Birthday to yoooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!! :bananen_smilies046:

And I forgot to get you a present!! :yahoo:














I know it is not really your birthday!!


BULLS***!!!! Where's my birthday twelve-pack?

DrunkHillbilly
02-06-2008, 12:19 PM
It's now a 6 pack!!!!

Canada
02-06-2008, 12:19 PM
BULLS***!!!! Where's my birthday twelve-pack?

What the hell is a 12 pack??

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/02/13.jpg

chief31
02-06-2008, 12:21 PM
What the hell is a 12 pack??

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/02/13.jpg

I am a self-procaimed lightweight.

Canada
02-06-2008, 12:24 PM
I am a self-procaimed lightweight.

That's OK, I will pick up the slack for both of us!! All this beer talk is makin me thirsty though and it is only 11:23. Although it is 8:23pm in Japan right now and I have been there before so somewhere internally I am still on Japanese time so I should try to get myself reaccustomed to the Asian ways so I will live longer and fight better kung-fu.

Chiefster
02-06-2008, 09:00 PM
That's OK, I will pick up the slack for both of us!! All this beer talk is makin me thirsty though and it is only 11:23. Although it is 8:23pm in Japan right now and I have been there before so somewhere internally I am still on Japanese time so I should try to get myself reaccustomed to the Asian ways so I will live longer and fight better kung-fu.


Diet Coke! :D

hermhater
02-06-2008, 09:10 PM
10/16


10/08


10/11


7/7 ....what are we doing?

We should get together around our Bdays and drink some beers!

Canada will probably be there for the home opener, even thought it isn't his birthday month, and he can watch us drink them!

:bananen_smilies046: :yahoo:

Canada
02-07-2008, 03:30 PM
We should get together around our Bdays and drink some beers!

Canada will probably be there for the home opener, even thought it isn't his birthday month, and he can watch us drink them!

:bananen_smilies046: :yahoo:

Yeah. lets do that....take my beer. I dare ya!! :sign0104:

anaeelbackwards
02-07-2008, 04:03 PM
Birthdays.

4/19
i was 45 seconds from being a 4/20 baby...

drink some beers for my birthday ALL!

hermhater
02-07-2008, 08:56 PM
4/19
i was 45 seconds from being a 4/20 baby...

drink some beers for my birthday ALL!

Things could have been so different...

:biggrin:

AkChief49
02-07-2008, 09:24 PM
Yeah. lets do that....take my beer. I dare ya!! :sign0104:I would rather slap a wolverine on the nose!!:D

hermhater
02-07-2008, 10:07 PM
I would rather slap a wolverine on the nose!!:D

Slap it with what?

:lol:

AkChief49
02-07-2008, 10:11 PM
Slap it with what?

:lol:bare handed. probably a better shot at keeping my hand here as opposed to stealing a beer from Canada:D

hermhater
02-07-2008, 10:13 PM
bare handed. probably a better shot at keeping my hand here as opposed to stealing a beer from Canada:D

You're probably right!

As a matter of fact you have inspired me to create another thread!

(We all know how much everyone loves it when HH starts a thread!)

:biggrin:

Chiefster
02-08-2008, 02:26 AM
You're probably right!

As a matter of fact you have inspired me to create another thread!

(We all know how much everyone loves it when HH starts a thread!)

:biggrin:

Ok, your thread starting capabilities have been permanently revoked. :p
j/k

hermhater
02-08-2008, 02:27 AM
Ok, your thread starting capabilities have been permanently revoked. :p
j/k

I should probably start a thread about how I shouldn't start threads.

Hmmmm...

Chiefster
02-08-2008, 02:30 AM
I should probably start a thread about how I shouldn't start threads.

Hmmmm...

That's cool; I'm hitting the sack! :D

hermhater
02-08-2008, 02:31 AM
That's cool; I'm hitting the sack! :D

Me too, I just gotta finish this thread and then it's nighty-night...

I wish it was easy for me to sleep...

Chiefster
02-08-2008, 08:53 AM
Me too, I just gotta finish this thread and then it's nighty-night...

I wish it was easy for me to sleep...

I, too, have known the feeling.

hermhater
02-08-2008, 09:00 AM
I, too, have known the feeling.

Morning Chiefster!

Time to go to work!

:mob:

Chiefster
02-08-2008, 09:05 AM
Morning Chiefster!

Time to go to work!

:mob:

Good morning my friend.


I'm off (work) today, but it's time to get the kid off to school.

hermhater
02-08-2008, 09:08 AM
Good morning my friend.


I'm off (work) today, but it's time to get the kid off to school.

Looks like congress approved the tax rebate!

Buy your kid a car so he can drive himself!

:yahoo:

Chiefster
02-08-2008, 09:12 AM
Looks like congress approved the tax rebate!

Buy your kid a car so he can drive himself!

:yahoo:

Nope I'll just deposit it and send it back next year when it's got to be paid back.