PDA

View Full Version : Wesley



royalswin100games
03-07-2008, 03:25 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/518985.html

Let him go... good riddance.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 03:30 PM
Carl ain't letting him go, he's just sitting on the bench sucking up cap money.

And I'm sure Herm has told him he will be "Okayyy..."

Asses.

royalswin100games
03-07-2008, 03:44 PM
Carl ain't letting him go, he's just sitting on the bench sucking up cap money.

And I'm sure Herm has told him he will be "Okayyy..."

Asses.

Wesley is a C-H-U-M-P!

hermhater
03-07-2008, 03:46 PM
Wesley is a C-H-U-M-P!

Why's that?

Because he wants to go somewhere and start?

We pay him that much money and then bench him for rookies?

royalswin100games
03-07-2008, 03:52 PM
Why's that?

Because he wants to go somewhere and start?

We pay him that much money and then bench him for rookies?

Nah, not because he wants to start, because when he does start, he stinks. That's why he's a chump and we shouldn't pay him that money.

:11:

hermhater
03-07-2008, 03:54 PM
Nah, not because he wants to start, because when he does start, he stinks. That's why he's a chump and we shouldn't pay him that money.

:11:

Exactly my point!

Let the guy go for Gods sake!!!

Almost 4 million a year for a backup?

Who's idea was that again?

texaschief
03-07-2008, 04:40 PM
I think his cap number is bigger if we let him go than if we keep him. He's not good enough for someone to want to trade for him and his salary and he's too expensive to cut loose. He might as well work hard this offseason and try to take back his starting spot.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 04:43 PM
I think his cap number is bigger if we let him go than if we keep him. He's not good enough for someone to want to trade for him and his salary and he's too expensive to cut loose. He might as well work hard this offseason and try to take back his starting spot.

You mean if another team picks him up we still have to pay him?

texaschief
03-07-2008, 04:48 PM
You mean if another team picks him up we still have to pay him?

yeah, i think it's still a cap penalty. The only way we don't pay him is if he's claimed off waivers. But, with his salary numbers, any team who signs him will wait till he clears, then sign him to a new deal.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 04:49 PM
yeah, i think it's still a cap penalty. The only way we don't pay him is if he's claimed off waivers. But, with his salary numbers, any team who signs him will wait till he clears, then sign him to a new deal.

I thought we had a deal all lined up with the Donks last year and Carl backed out?

Weren't they gonna pay him?

texaschief
03-07-2008, 04:51 PM
I thought we had a deal all lined up with the Donks last year and Carl backed out?

Weren't they gonna pay him?

But that's a trade. If we trade him, we won't have to pay. But like i said, THIS season, nobody will want to trade for a player like Wesley while he has that number attached to him.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 04:53 PM
But that's a trade. If we trade him, we won't have to pay. But like i said, THIS season, nobody will want to trade for a player like Wesley while he has that number attached to him.

Aren't there a lot of teams out there that need safeties?

Why wouldn't they want him?

texaschief
03-07-2008, 05:06 PM
cap number, plus they'd have to give something up to bring him TO pay him that money.

would YOU trade for a safety who lost his job to a 2nd year player who's getting paid 4million a year? might as well just draft one if you need one. Hell, one of our safeties is a 7th round pick. It's not like they're not out there.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 05:10 PM
cap number, plus they'd have to give something up to bring him TO pay him that money.

would YOU trade for a safety who lost his job to a 2nd year player who's getting paid 4million a year? might as well just draft one if you need one. Hell, one of our safeties is a 7th round pick. It's not like they're not out there.

So we're stuck with an expensive back up.

Who gave him his contract, and then benched him?

Was it a combo job between Carl and Herm, or what?

texaschief
03-07-2008, 05:18 PM
So we're stuck with an expensive back up.

Who gave him his contract, and then benched him?

Was it a combo job between Carl and Herm, or what?

Well, Carl gave him the contract, but what is Herm supposed to do? Start him because we're paying him a lot of money? If he can't stave off the rookies, why should he start?

hermhater
03-07-2008, 05:23 PM
Well, Carl gave him the contract, but what is Herm supposed to do? Start him because we're paying him a lot of money? If he can't stave off the rookies, why should he start?

Wesley said in the article that there was no competition, Herm just gave the job to Page or Pollard.

Are you saying Wesley might have exaggerated?

:lol:

texaschief
03-07-2008, 05:28 PM
Wesley said in the article that there was no competition, Herm just gave the job to Page or Pollard.

Are you saying Wesley might have exaggerated?

:lol:

no. i'm sure Herm just wanted to sit his best players.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 05:44 PM
no. i'm sure Herm just wanted to sit his best players.

No, he lets those guys leave the Chiefs.

I guess he is gonna draft an entirely new team!

:mob:

texaschief
03-07-2008, 10:37 PM
No, he lets those guys leave the Chiefs.



:sign0153: ....like....who?

Do you actually believe the nonsense you spew?:sign0098:

hermhater
03-07-2008, 11:06 PM
:sign0153: ....like....who?

Do you actually believe the nonsense you spew?:sign0098:

Dante Hall, Kawika Mitchell, Lawrence Tynes...

You might want to check the mirror, you have a little bit of Herms fecal matter on your nose...

kcmostwanted
03-07-2008, 11:18 PM
It just shows us how crappy of a GM Queen Carl is...
A 4th round pick for Wesley and he backed out?? Wtf??

That's not the only example..didn't he trade a 4th round pick for Michael Bennet and then a year later let him go for a 6th round pick?? Does he not know the potential difference in talent level between a 4th and 6th round draft pick...I'm tired of his crappy decisions!!

texaschief
03-07-2008, 11:20 PM
Dante Hall, Kawika Mitchell, Lawrence Tynes...

You might want to check the mirror, you have a little bit of Herms fecal matter on your nose...

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!

You have got to be joking. Hall did nothing his last 2 years here and everyone was happy to get the draft pick when we traded him. Just because his replacement was awful as well doesn't mean Hall wasn't washed up as a KR.

If Kawika Mitchell was so great, the Giants wouldn't have let him go either.

.....and Lawrence Tynes? omg. same applies here as the Hall statement. Tynes is NOT a good kicker. How do you miss a chip shot from the 9 yd line in a dome? How do you miss consecutive field goals this year just to get bailed out by your team to allow you a second chance to win a game in OT and still be considered a "good kicker." He should've been let go....as he should've been this year by the Giants.....but make no mistake, that was Carl's call....not Herms.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 11:20 PM
It just shows us how crappy of a GM Queen Carl is...
A 4th round pick for Wesley and he backed out?? Wtf??

That's not the only example..didn't he trade a 4th round pick for Michael Bennet and then a year later let him go for a 6th round pick?? Does he not know the potential difference in talent level between a 4th and 6th round draft pick...I'm tired of his crappy decisions!!

As we all are.

:mob:

hermhater
03-07-2008, 11:27 PM
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!

You have got to be joking. Hall did nothing his last 2 years here and everyone was happy to get the draft pick when we traded him. Just because his replacement was awful as well doesn't mean Hall wasn't washed up as a KR.

If Kawika Mitchell was so great, the Giants wouldn't have let him go either.

.....and Lawrence Tynes? omg. same applies here as the Hall statement. Tynes is NOT a good kicker. How do you miss a chip shot from the 9 yd line in a dome? How do you miss consecutive field goals this year just to get bailed out by your team to allow you a second chance to win a game in OT and still be considered a "good kicker." He should've been let go....as he should've been this year by the Giants.....but make no mistake, that was Carl's call....not Herms.

How many returns did Halls replacement score this year? Hell for that matter how many times did he cross the 20 yard line?

Mitchell got 16 mil to go to the Bills. I didn't say he was a franchise player, and apparently the Giants didn't think so either.

Tynes is a good kicker. His replacements were not.

Weren't you saying something about Herm plays the better players on the team, and didn't I say no he lets them go?

texaschief
03-07-2008, 11:41 PM
Kawika Mitchell- 76 tkls 3.5 sck 2FF 1INT
Napoleon Harris- 116 tkls 1.5 sck 1FF 1INT

Does Mitchell's 1 more Forced Fumble and 2 more sacks make up for 40 less tackles? Get real.

Let's look at Hall and Drummond while we're at it.

Hall- 7 games- 729 yds 18/20+ yds returns

Drummond- 12 games- 785 yds 22/20+ yds returns.

I'd much rather have a player who's going to be there for 5 more games than someone who's only going to give me 7 games who i gave up a 4th round pick for.

and you can argue that Tynes is a good kicker until you're blue in the face, but that's just plain dumb. Medlock wasn't better, but like i said, that wasn't Herm's decision.

hermhater
03-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Kawika Mitchell- 76 tkls 3.5 sck 2FF 1INT
Napoleon Harris- 116 tkls 1.5 sck 1FF 1INT

Does Mitchell's 1 more Forced Fumble and 2 more sacks make up for 40 less tackles? Get real.

Let's look at Hall and Drummond while we're at it.

Hall- 7 games- 729 yds 18/20+ yds returns

Drummond- 12 games- 785 yds 22/20+ yds returns.

I'd much rather have a player who's going to be there for 5 more games than someone who's only going to give me 7 games who i gave up a 4th round pick for.

and you can argue that Tynes is a good kicker until you're blue in the face, but that's just plain dumb. Medlock wasn't better, but like i said, that wasn't Herm's decision.

You think Mitchell would have had as many tackles as Harris if our run game didn't suck so bad? I'll bet Mitchell wasn't even involved in stopping the run half the time the ball was run against the Giants

I would much rather have had Hall returning for us.

I'm not sure why you put those numbers for Hall vs Drummond up seeing as how they were almost the same except for games played. How does that prove that we should have gotten rid of Hall?

WHOEVER got rid of Tynes was an idiot. I hold Carl just as responsible for the loss of Tynes as Herm.

Just because my username is hermhater doesn't mean I can't hate Carl too!
:bananen_smilies046:

texaschief
03-07-2008, 11:56 PM
You think Mitchell would have had as many tackles as Harris if our run game didn't suck so bad? I'll bet Mitchell wasn't even involved in stopping the run half the time the ball was run against the Giants

I would much rather have had Hall returning for us.

I'm not sure why you put those numbers for Hall vs Drummond up seeing as how they were almost the same except for games played. How does that prove that we should have gotten rid of Hall?

WHOEVER got rid of Tynes was an idiot. I hold Carl just as responsible for the loss of Tynes as Herm.

Just because my username is hermhater doesn't mean I can't hate Carl too!
:bananen_smilies046:

The highest total Mitchell has EVER had was 105. He's not a good MLB. Just because the Bills overpayed doesn't make him a good player. I don't know why the fact that you think he's a good player shocks me. You want a full team of players like this. Players like Mitchell are all that's usually out there in free agency.

IN EVERY SINGLE CASE....THE PLAYER ON THE FIELD IS BETTER THAN THE PLAYER IN STREET CLOTHES.

At BEST Mitchell and Hall are pushes with thier backups....AT BEST.

Tynes would've been better than Medlock, but it's not every year that you see the most accurate kicker in the NCAA have the kind of melt down Medlock had last season.

hermhater
03-08-2008, 12:03 AM
The highest total Mitchell has EVER had was 105. He's not a good MLB. Just because the Bills overpayed doesn't make him a good player. I don't know why the fact that you think he's a good player shocks me. You want a full team of players like this. Players like Mitchell are all that's usually out there in free agency.

IN EVERY SINGLE CASE....THE PLAYER ON THE FIELD IS BETTER THAN THE PLAYER IN STREET CLOTHES.

At BEST Mitchell and Hall are pushes with thier backups....AT BEST.

Tynes would've been better than Medlock, but it's not every year that you see the most accurate kicker in the NCAA have the kind of melt down Medlock had last season.

It's not really worth arguing about the quality of the players we let go vs the quality of their replacements because neither you or I (yes even you) are NFL scouts.

Our leadership on the other hand is what is in question.

I know you still think Herm is the second coming, but you don't see my point at all?

Chiefster
03-08-2008, 12:07 AM
What; Wesley gone??? :rolleyes:

hermhater
03-08-2008, 12:11 AM
What; Wesley gone??? :rolleyes:


Nope!

We are paying him good money to keep the benches nice and smooth!

:mob:

Chiefster
03-08-2008, 12:24 AM
Nope!

We are paying him good money to keep the benches nice and smooth!

:mob:


Wishful thinking; having not actually taken the time to read the article. :p

texaschief
03-08-2008, 12:59 AM
It's not really worth arguing about the quality of the players we let go vs the quality of their replacements because neither you or I (yes even you) are NFL scouts.

Our leadership on the other hand is what is in question.

I know you still think Herm is the second coming, but you don't see my point at all?

Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

I've always questioned Carl's leadership.

royalswin100games
03-08-2008, 01:11 AM
Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

I've always questioned Carl's leadership.

I don't necessarily like Herm but I can't think of anybody we've cut that I'd want back. Maybe Sammie Knight but he didn't play well here. He looked good when Del Rio played him though. Where did he sign again?

royalswin100games
03-08-2008, 01:11 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot about Dunn and Wilkerson. I think we should've kept them.

texaschief
03-08-2008, 01:17 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot about Dunn and Wilkerson. I think we should've kept them.

I don't think Dunn will ever stay healthy for an entire season again. I wouldn't be shocked to see him retire. I wouldn't mind keeping Wilkerson, but if his leaving opens playing time for the new guys, i'm ok with that.

hermhater
03-08-2008, 01:25 AM
Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

I've always questioned Carl's leadership.

My biggest gripe is that we let players go from positions that we were obviously lacking in talent, for less talented players.

I don't think Hall, Tynes, and Mitchell would have made the season MUCH better, but it would have been better.

chief31
03-12-2008, 04:38 AM
I think his cap number is bigger if we let him go than if we keep him. He's not good enough for someone to want to trade for him and his salary and he's too expensive to cut loose. He might as well work hard this offseason and try to take back his starting spot.

Well, noone believes that the table is being "leaned" toward the young players? I think we all know that it is, but may differ on how much it is being "leaned". I'd say very heavily.

There has been a mass exodus of the players that were not drafted by Herm, coincidentally.


Well, Carl gave him the contract, but what is Herm supposed to do? Start him because we're paying him a lot of money? If he can't stave off the rookies, why should he start?

He has always plyed well. The fact that Herm wants to force his guys into place shouldn't be used as ammo against Wesleys playing ability.


ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!

You have got to be joking. Hall did nothing his last 2 years here and everyone was happy to get the draft pick when we traded him. Just because his replacement was awful as well doesn't mean Hall wasn't washed up as a KR.

If Kawika Mitchell was so great, the Giants wouldn't have let him go either.

.....and Lawrence Tynes? omg. same applies here as the Hall statement. Tynes is NOT a good kicker. How do you miss a chip shot from the 9 yd line in a dome? How do you miss consecutive field goals this year just to get bailed out by your team to allow you a second chance to win a game in OT and still be considered a "good kicker." He should've been let go....as he should've been this year by the Giants.....but make no mistake, that was Carl's call....not Herms.

Hey. If those guys were so horrible, then how is it possible that their replacements have been amazingly worse than they were? (Exception for Harris.)

That would mean that we have to have brought in the absolute least talented pieces of garbage to have ever stepped onto the field.

But I suppose that Herm won't get any of the credit for those mistakes. It seems that only the successful moves are credited to Herm.


Kawika Mitchell- 76 tkls 3.5 sck 2FF 1INT
Napoleon Harris- 116 tkls 1.5 sck 1FF 1INT

Does Mitchell's 1 more Forced Fumble and 2 more sacks make up for 40 less tackles? Get real.

Let's look at Hall and Drummond while we're at it.

Hall- 7 games- 729 yds 18/20+ yds returns

KR long 84, PR long 85, PR avg 15.1, KR avg. 25.1, Return TDs - 1, 40+ returns - 2.

Drummond- 12 games- 785 yds 22/20+ yds returns.

KR long 39, PR long 22, PR avg. 6.9, KR avg. 21.2, Return TDs-0, 40+ returns - 0.

Is this "cherry pickin'"?



I'd much rather have a player who's going to be there for 5 more games than someone who's only going to give me 7 games who i gave up a 4th round pick for.

Come on. You want a player who is unable to get anything going at all, over a guy who makes plays? Because (purely in hind-sight) a guy got injured?

Well, considering the amazingly high number of games that Hall had missed in his career.... 1.... up to the '07 season, I guess you're right.

But, what about the fact that Drummond lost the return job due to inneffectivity? Does that not counter the games missed by injury?

and you can argue that Tynes is a good kicker until you're blue in the face, but that's just plain dumb. Medlock wasn't better, but like i said, that wasn't Herm's decision.

Well DUHH. That was a bad decision. So that had nothing to do with Herm. How does that work again? Herm drafted any player that does well, while all the failures were someone elses decision?

I just want to make sure I have the rules straight.


Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

I've always questioned Carl's leadership.

The fact is that even if you want to blind yourself to the positives about some of the players that we let go, you can't deny the failure to replace them. (Mitchell/Harris exception)

hermhater
03-12-2008, 04:48 AM
Oh Snap!

:lol:

Chiefster
03-12-2008, 08:44 AM
I don't think Dunn will ever stay healthy for an entire season again. I wouldn't be shocked to see him retire. I wouldn't mind keeping Wilkerson, but if his leaving opens playing time for the new guys, i'm ok with that.

Agreed!

texaschief
03-12-2008, 03:05 PM
There has been a mass exodus of the players that were not drafted by Herm, coincidentally.
Why wouldn't there be? Most of the players we've let go were inneffective and old. Again, who have we cut that you wish were still here? Dante Hall? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by texaschief
Well, Carl gave him the contract, but what is Herm supposed to do? Start him because we're paying him a lot of money? If he can't stave off the rookies, why should he start?
He has always plyed well. The fact that Herm wants to force his guys into place shouldn't be used as ammo against Wesleys playing ability.

How bout stats? Can stats be used as ammo?
Wesley 2006 (last year as a starter)
G 14 GS 14 TKLS 67 SOLO SCK 0 62 PD 4 INT 3
Pollard (Wesley's replacement)
G 16 GS 15 TKLS 90 SOLO 74 SCK 1 PD 7 INT 2
hmm, who would YOU start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by texaschief
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!

You have got to be joking. Hall did nothing his last 2 years here and everyone was happy to get the draft pick when we traded him. Just because his replacement was awful as well doesn't mean Hall wasn't washed up as a KR.

If Kawika Mitchell was so great, the Giants wouldn't have let him go either.

.....and Lawrence Tynes? omg. same applies here as the Hall statement. Tynes is NOT a good kicker. How do you miss a chip shot from the 9 yd line in a dome? How do you miss consecutive field goals this year just to get bailed out by your team to allow you a second chance to win a game in OT and still be considered a "good kicker." He should've been let go....as he should've been this year by the Giants.....but make no mistake, that was Carl's call....not Herms.
Hey.
If those guys were so horrible, then how is it possible that their replacements have been amazingly worse than they were? (Exception for Harris.)

That would mean that we have to have brought in the absolute least talented pieces of garbage to have ever stepped onto the field.

But I suppose that Herm won't get any of the credit for those mistakes. It seems that only the successful moves are credited to Herm.

I wouldn't have any problem laying blame at Herm's feet if it were warranted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texaschief
Kawika Mitchell- 76 tkls 3.5 sck 2FF 1INT
Napoleon Harris- 116 tkls 1.5 sck 1FF 1INT

Does Mitchell's 1 more Forced Fumble and 2 more sacks make up for 40 less tackles? Get real.

Let's look at Hall and Drummond while we're at it.

Hall- 7 games- 729 yds 18/20+ yds returns

KR long 84, PR long 85, PR avg 15.1, KR avg. 25.1, Return TDs - 1, 40+ returns - 2.

Drummond- 12 games- 785 yds 22/20+ yds returns.

KR long 39, PR long 22, PR avg. 6.9, KR avg. 21.2, Return TDs-0, 40+ returns - 0.

Is this "cherry pickin'"?



I'd much rather have a player who's going to be there for 5 more games than someone who's only going to give me 7 games who i gave up a 4th round pick for.

Come on. You want a player who is unable to get anything going at all, over a guy who makes plays? Because (purely in hind-sight) a guy got injured?

Well, considering the amazingly high number of games that Hall had missed in his career.... 1.... up to the '07 season, I guess you're right.

But, what about the fact that Drummond lost the return job due to inneffectivity? Does that not counter the games missed by injury?

Fine, you want to go into the past and look at numbers? Let's do that. Remember, we traded Hall for a 4th rd pick. Let's look at their 2006 seasons.
Hall-
G 15 RET 53 YDS 1207 AVG 22.8 LNG 60 20+ 36 40+3
Drummond-
G 14 RET 62 YDS 1349 AVG 21.8 LNG 65 20+ 33 40+3

So, Hall was averaging 2 yds more than Drummond was in 2006. Are those 2 yds worth more than the ability to draft Kolby Smith?


I'll be back a little later to help you out on the rest

chief31
03-12-2008, 03:50 PM
Fine, you want to go into the past and look at numbers?

Let's do that. Remember, we traded Hall for a 4th rd pick. Let's look at their 2006 seasons.
Hall-
G 15 RET 53 YDS 1207 AVG 22.8 LNG 60 20+ 36 40+3
Drummond-
G 14 RET 62 YDS 1349 AVG 21.8 LNG 65 20+ 33 40+3

So, Hall was averaging 2 yds more than Drummond was in 2006. Are those 2 yds worth more than the ability to draft Kolby Smith?


I'll be back a little later to help you out on the rest

Ahem....

We traded Dante for the pick that we took Medlock with. A total waste of a Pro-Bowl KR.

But thanks for the help. :D

By the way, you didn't like comparing the '07 numbers I guess. And instead, chose to act as if Herm had Drummond all lined up to replace him. [He was cut by the Lions during training camp.]

You have defended every bad move that Herm has made. All the while going so far as to bash Super Bowl champion coaches Vermiel and Cowher.

I can't believe that there is anything that Herm could do to draw any criticism from you. Including compiling a career losing record.

As for Wesley, you used his '06 numbers as a starter, when he was actually coming off the bench. Remember Sammie Knight?

texaschief
03-12-2008, 05:28 PM
Ahem....

We traded Dante for the pick that we took Medlock with. A total waste of a Pro-Bowl KR.

But thanks for the help. :D

I really wish you'd just take my word for some things. We drafted Kolby before we drafted Medlock. If we are recieving a draft pick in the 5th round from the Rams, who do you think had the lower pick? The Chiefs coming off a playoff loss or the Rams who never made the playoffs?....not that it really matters anyway considering the pick originally belonged to the Bills. BUT.....we DID pick Kolby with the Ram's pick from the Hall trade. Medlock was taken #23 in the 5th round compared to Smith who was taken at #11 in the 5th.


P.S. You're welcome for the help
By the way, you didn't like comparing the '07 numbers I guess. And instead, chose to act as if Herm had Drummond all lined up to replace him. [He was cut by the Lions during training camp.]

I compared the '07 numbers, but you didn't like those because Dante only played 7 games. Why is ok to look at Hall's numbers from '06 and think he's going to be SO much better than Drummond, who's '06 numbers are EXTREMELY comparable to Dante's?

You have defended every bad move that Herm has made. All the while going so far as to bash Super Bowl champion coaches Vermiel and Cowher.

I can't believe that there is anything that Herm could do to draw any criticism from you. Including compiling a career losing record.

As for Wesley, you used his '06 numbers as a starter, when he was actually coming off the bench. Remember Sammie Knight?

Oh, my bad. Vermeil replaced Wesley before Herm ever got the chance....kinda defeats the whole arguement about Herm only starting Pollard because he's Herm's guy, huh?

texaschief
03-12-2008, 06:40 PM
But I suppose that Herm won't get any of the credit for those mistakes. It seems that only the successful moves are credited to Herm.

Well DUHH. That was a bad decision. So that had nothing to do with Herm. How does that work again? Herm drafted any player that does well, while all the failures were someone elses decision?

I just want to make sure I have the rules straight.

Which mistakes are you refering to?

Drafting the second rated kicker in the draft ahead of the first rated kicker because he's a UCLA guy? Really? Tell me that doesn't have Carl Peterson written all over it.

...or maybe it was the "mistake" of trading a KR who did relatively nothing for the team the year before, for a solid #2 RB while picking up a FA KR who had comparable numbers to Hall in '06.

...or maybe it was the "mistake" of releasing a LB who isn't as good as this board thinks he is.

...or maybe it was releasing a kicker who was inconsistent at best while being unable to hit a 12 yard FG in a dome in a playoff game.

Please....enlighten me how obvious these "mistakes" are...i just don't see it. All i see are a bunch of monday morning QBs who think the coach is bad because he traded a washed up KR.



The fact is that even if you want to blind yourself to the positives about some of the players that we let go, you can't deny the failure to replace them. (Mitchell/Harris exception)

...and again, this makes no sense.

Hall for 7 games < Kolby Smith & Eddie Drummond

Tynes IS NOT a good kicker, but Medlock was not Herm's decision.

Mitchell < Harris

.....anything else...well, besides the fact that the Offense got old which you'd like to blame on Herm?

I guess Herm destroyed our great defense too, huh?

Canada
03-12-2008, 06:42 PM
Herm lost the Faders game for us on a bad call! :P

texaschief
03-12-2008, 06:44 PM
Ahem....

We traded Dante for the pick that we took Medlock with. A total waste of a Pro-Bowl KR.

But thanks for the help. :D

By the way, you didn't like comparing the '07 numbers I guess. And instead, chose to act as if Herm had Drummond all lined up to replace him. [He was cut by the Lions during training camp.]

You have defended every bad move that Herm has made. All the while going so far as to bash Super Bowl champion coaches Vermiel and Cowher.

I can't believe that there is anything that Herm could do to draw any criticism from you. Including compiling a career losing record.

As for Wesley, you used his '06 numbers as a starter, when he was actually coming off the bench. Remember Sammie Knight?

Go back and show me his record with a stable QB. Then come talk to me about his record.

texaschief
03-12-2008, 06:45 PM
Herm lost the Faders game for us on a bad call! :P

But, he started one "his" guys in Jarrod Page, who won at least 2 games for us on picks...so, it's still 2-1. try again. lol

Canada
03-12-2008, 06:45 PM
Dosen't he pick who his QB is? Didn't he have Pennington for a while? How is that an excuse for a losing record?

Canada
03-12-2008, 06:46 PM
But, he started one "his" guys in Jarrod Page, who won at least 2 games for us on picks...so, it's still 2-1. try again.

OK, the other 11 games we lost last season.

texaschief
03-12-2008, 06:47 PM
Dosen't he pick who his QB is? Didn't he have Pennington for a while? How is that an excuse for a losing record?

How many seasons was Pennington healthy? Look at the seasons when Pennington was healthy for all 16 games, then look at those records.

texaschief
03-12-2008, 06:48 PM
OK, the other 11 games we lost last season.

So, you're saying we could've gone undefeated with team we had last season if we had just someone else as head coach? really?

Canada
03-12-2008, 06:56 PM
So, you're saying we could've gone undefeated with team we had last season if we had just someone else as head coach? really?

Neither one of us knows what would have happened had Herm never come here, but I promise it could not have been much worse.

Canada
03-12-2008, 06:57 PM
How many seasons was Pennington healthy? Look at the seasons when Pennington was healthy for all 16 games, then look at those records.

So Pennington wasn't Herms guy? You really will defend Herm no matter what!

texaschief
03-12-2008, 07:05 PM
So Pennington wasn't Herms guy? You really will defend Herm no matter what!

What does this have to do with his QBs not being able to finish a season?

Canada
03-12-2008, 07:59 PM
He apparently picked the wrong guy or he wouldn't have a losing record.

dtforever
03-12-2008, 10:50 PM
herm should be fired carl should be fired unless they want top five picks for years to come

Chiefster
03-13-2008, 01:14 AM
herm should be fired carl should be fired unless they want top five picks for years to come

Where at in Central Kansas are you from?

...Wichita?

hermhater
03-13-2008, 06:08 AM
What does this have to do with his QBs not being able to finish a season?


I read a few posts in this thread and would like to respond to them all but I only have energy for one.

You TC get my wrath.

Herm doesn't protect his backfield.

Dang you.

Chiefster
03-13-2008, 03:04 PM
I read a few posts in this thread and would like to respond to them all but I only have energy for one.

You TC get my wrath.

Herm doesn't protect his backfield.

Dang you.

The only thing Herm protects is Herm. How many people did he throw under the bus last year, and how much responsibility did he take the dismal season we had?

royalswin100games
03-13-2008, 03:13 PM
The only thing Herm protects is Herm. How many people did he throw under the bus last year, and how much responsibility did he take the dismal season we had?

He definitely doesn't care for us fans much either.

hermhater
03-14-2008, 04:38 AM
The only thing Herm protects is Herm. How many people did he throw under the bus last year, and how much responsibility did he take the dismal season we had?

He threw exactly everyone besides himself.

So that is the population of the planet minus one?

Or does Herm even count?




He definitely doesn't care for us fans much either.

We must be stupid to root for the Chiefs?

Is that what you're saying?

chief31
03-14-2008, 05:11 AM
Oh, my bad. Vermeil replaced Wesley before Herm ever got the chance....kinda defeats the whole arguement about Herm only starting Pollard because he's Herm's guy, huh?


No. Your boy Hermie was the head coach in '06.


...and again, this makes no sense.

Hall for 7 games < Kolby Smith ... err you mean Justin Medlock, not Kolby... & Eddie Drummond and no way to that.

Tynes IS NOT a good kicker, but Medlock was not Herm's decision.

He was better than the garbage that Herm replaced him with. And if you are going to give Herm the credit for drafting the good players, then he gets Medlock too.

Mitchell < Harris

.....anything else...well, besides the fact that the Offense got old which you'd like to blame on Herm?

I guess Herm destroyed our great defense too, huh?

The man has never faltered.


Go back and show me his record with a stable QB. Then come talk to me about his record.

Exactly!!! He has never bothered to protect a QB. But that would be someone elses fault, I'm sure.

hermhater
03-14-2008, 05:26 AM
I call this texascide...

chief31 style...

:cool:

texaschief
03-14-2008, 03:11 PM
No. Your boy Hermie was the head coach in '06.

This is why i like using FACTS to back my statements up. Sammy Knight was signed in Vermeil's last offseason here and produced as a STARTER for the Chiefs in '05.

I like how you keep acting like we drafted Medlock with the pick we got from the Rams. I've already covered that in a previous post...#42, but i guess you just missed that one.



Exactly!!! He has never bothered to protect a QB. But that would be someone elses fault, I'm sure.

Yeah, it sucked that those linemen only decided to protect/block for Curtis Martin to a 1308 yard season the first time Pennington was hurt and a career high 1697 yard season the same year Pennington was hurt the second time.

Pennington had a hurt:
Wrist from 9/3/03-8/8/03
R-Shoulder from 11/10/04-12/01/04
R-Shoulder from 9/28/05-10/31/05
Calf from 9/20/06-1/3/07
Pelvis, R-leg, Ankle from 9/7/07-11/16/07

Pennington is a fragile QB. Period. During this same time period, David Carr was getting sacked so many times, he was breaking NFL records as the most sacked QB in NFL history...how many times did you hear of David Carr missing games?

BTW- Herm has drafted Olinemen in:
01-Kareem McKinzie-3rd rd-(Starter for SB champ Giants)
01-Situpe Peko-6th no info
02-Chris Baker-3rd-(2 year starter for Jets)
02-Jonathan Goodwin-5th (started in '05, mostly backup)
03-Dave Yonanovits-7th no info
04-Adrian Jones-4th(starter in '05, now backup in KC)
04-Mark Cavka-5th no info
05-Joel Dreesen-6th no info
06-Dre Stallings-6th
07-Taylor Herb-6th
07-Michael Allen-7th

If it's talent evaluation you want to look at, let's compare the past 2 coaches to coach here in KC from 2001 to 2005: these players are still contributing to their respective teams and first rounders

Vermiel drafted:
01:
no first rounder
Derrick Blaylock-5th
Monty Beisel-4th

02:
Ryan Sims-1st
Eddie Freeman-2nd
Scott Fujita-4th

03:
Larry Johnson-1st
Kawika Mitchell-2nd
Jordan Black-5th
Jimmy Wilkerson-6th

04:
no first rounder
Keyaron Fox-3rd
Jared Allen-4th

05:
Derrick Johnson-1st
Dustin Colquitt-3rd

Edwards drafted:

01:
Santana Moss-1st
LaMont Jordan-2nd
Kareem McKenzie-3rd
James Reed-7th

02:
Bryan Thomas-1st
Jon McGraw-2nd
Chris Baker-3rd

03:
Dwayne Robertson-1st
Victor Hobson-2nd
Brooks Bollinger-6th

04:
Jonathan Vilma-1st
Jerricho Cotchery-4th
Eric Coleman-5th
Derrick Ward-7th

05:
no first rounder
Mike Nugent-2nd
Kerry Rhodes-4th

Just looking at the names on these lists, i'm glad if we're going to rebuild this team thru the draft, that Vermeil is gone. I'd say Herm is a better evaluater of talent than Dick was, but I'm sure y'all will find reasons to tell my why Vermeil's group was so much better than Herm's.

chief31
03-15-2008, 03:35 AM
Yeah, it sucked that those linemen only decided to protect/block for Curtis Martin to a 1308 yard season the first time Pennington was hurt and a career high 1697 yard season the same year Pennington was hurt the second time.

How is it that you don't understand the difference between run-blocking and pass-protection?

BTW- Herm has drafted Olinemen in:
01-Kareem McKinzie-3rd rd-(Starter for SB champ Giants)
01-Situpe Peko-6th no info
02-Chris Baker-3rd-(2 year starter for Jets)
02-Jonathan Goodwin-5th (started in '05, mostly backup)
03-Dave Yonanovits-7th no info
04-Adrian Jones-4th(starter in '05, now backup in KC)
04-Mark Cavka-5th no info
05-Joel Dreesen-6th no info
06-Dre Stallings-6th
07-Taylor Herb-6th
07-Michael Allen-7th

So, one starter in seven drafts? Impressive! Maybe if Herm had tried taking an o-lineman in one of the first two rounds, he would have had two starters!

If it's talent evaluation you want to look at, let's compare the past 2 coaches to coach here in KC from 2001 to 2005: these players are still contributing to their respective teams and first rounders

Vermiel drafted:
01:
no first rounder
Derrick Blaylock-5th
Monty Beisel-4th

02:
Ryan Sims-1st
Eddie Freeman-2nd
Scott Fujita-4th

03:
Larry Johnson-1st
Kawika Mitchell-2nd
Jordan Black-5th
Jimmy Wilkerson-6th

04:
no first rounder
Keyaron Fox-3rd
Jared Allen-4th

05:
Derrick Johnson-1st
Dustin Colquitt-3rd

Edwards drafted:

01:
Santana Moss-1st
LaMont Jordan-2nd
Kareem McKenzie-3rd
James Reed-7th

02:
Bryan Thomas-1st
Jon McGraw-2nd
Chris Baker-3rd

03:
Dwayne Robertson-1st
Victor Hobson-2nd
Brooks Bollinger-6th

04:
Jonathan Vilma-1st
Jerricho Cotchery-4th
Eric Coleman-5th
Derrick Ward-7th

05:
no first rounder
Mike Nugent-2nd
Kerry Rhodes-4th

Just looking at the names on these lists, i'm glad if we're going to rebuild this team thru the draft, that Vermeil is gone. I'd say Herm is a better evaluater of talent than Dick was, but I'm sure y'all will find reasons to tell my why Vermeil's group was so much better than Herm's.

It's all about the jewelry. How many Conference Championships for Herms teams? And how many for D.V.? How many Super Bowl rings? How about Cowher?

hermhater
03-15-2008, 03:41 AM
Just looking at the names on these lists, i'm glad if we're going to rebuild this team thru the draft, that Vermeil is gone. I'd say Herm is a better evaluater of talent than Dick was, but I'm sure y'all will find reasons to tell my why Vermeil's group was so much better than Herm's.

Dick had two less first round picks.

You don't think that might have anything to do with it?

texaschief
03-15-2008, 04:24 AM
It's all about the jewelry. How many Conference Championships for Herms teams? And how many for D.V.? How many Super Bowl rings? How about Cowher?

oh, yeah...that's a fair comparison. Let's see, 15 years or 7. Cowher had 2 AFC titles and one ring in 15 years....same for ol' dicky.

So, you want to hire ANOTHER coach who only got 2 AFC titles and one ring in 15 seasons after hiring one who couldn't even get us a conference Championship in 1/3 of his career.

Basically, you're saying you want to give Cowher 15 years as a head coach just to go 2 super bowls and win only one.

We don't even know what we can expect from newer coaches like Edwards, Lovie Smith, Nolan, Manginni, etc.... and i've heard all these guy's names on the hot seat this offseason. Hell, Tom Coughlin's name was being mentioned during THIS season. It's just a shame fans don't have more patience with these coaches.

hermhater
03-15-2008, 04:31 AM
oh, yeah...that's a fair comparison. Let's see, 15 years or 7. Cowher had 2 AFC titles and one ring in 15 years....same for ol' dicky.

So, you want to hire ANOTHER coach who only got 2 AFC titles and one ring in 15 seasons after hiring one who couldn't even get us a conference Championship in 1/3 of his career.

Basically, you're saying you want to give Cowher 15 years as a head coach just to go 2 super bowls and win only one.

We don't even know what we can expect from newer coaches like Edwards, Lovie Smith, Nolan, Manginni, etc.... and i've heard all these guy's names on the hot seat this offseason. Hell, Tom Coughlin's name was being mentioned during THIS season. It's just a shame fans don't have more patience with these coaches.

It really sucks running into Peyton Manning in the playoffs.

texaschief
03-15-2008, 04:37 AM
It really sucks running into Peyton Manning in the playoffs.

we had THE best offense in the league....according to you, that's all we needed. Plenty of good teams have beaten Peyton Manning in the playoffs....the guy only has ONE ring in 9 seasons. "Peyton Manning" is a REALLY crappy excuse for not winning a playoff game.

I guess it was ALL Peyton Manning and had nothing to do with our 29th ranked defense, right?

hermhater
03-15-2008, 04:39 AM
we had THE best offense in the league....according to you, that's all we needed. Plenty of good teams have beaten Peyton Manning in the playoffs....the guy only has ONE ring in 9 seasons. "Peyton Manning" is a REALLY crappy excuse for not winning a playoff game.

I guess it was ALL Peyton Manning and had nothing to do with our 29th ranked defense, right?

You act like I don't want our defense to be good.

That is crazy. I want a dominant team on both sides of the ball and you know it, as a fellow Chiefs fan.

Are you telling me that you don't think Peyton had anything to do with it?

texaschief
03-15-2008, 04:43 AM
You act like I don't want our defense to be good.

That is crazy. I want a dominant team on both sides of the ball and you know it, as a fellow Chiefs fan.

Are you telling me that you don't think Peyton had anything to do with it?

i know that Peyton can and has been stopped by better defenses. He wouldn't have been able to do what he did without facing a 29th ranked defense. We saw an example of that when he got destroyed by the Patriots later in the playoffs.

chief31
03-15-2008, 04:47 AM
oh, yeah...that's a fair comparison. Let's see, 15 years or 7. Cowher had 2 AFC titles and one ring in 15 years....same for ol' dicky.

So, you want to hire ANOTHER coach who only got 2 AFC titles and one ring in 15 seasons after hiring one who couldn't even get us a conference Championship in 1/3 of his career.

Basically, you're saying you want to give Cowher 15 years as a head coach just to go 2 super bowls and win only one.

We don't even know what we can expect from newer coaches like Edwards, Lovie Smith, Nolan, Manginni, etc.... and i've heard all these guy's names on the hot seat this offseason. Hell, Tom Coughlin's name was being mentioned during THIS season. It's just a shame fans don't have more patience with these coaches.

Both Cowher and D.V. had gone to a Super Bowl in their first four seasons.

Herm does not qualify as a "newer" head coach. This will be his eighth season as a head coach.

By this point in Cowhers, or D.V.s careers, they had both accomplished more.

hermhater
03-15-2008, 04:49 AM
i know that Peyton can and has been stopped by better defenses. He wouldn't have been able to do what he did without facing a 29th ranked defense. We saw an example of that when he got destroyed by the Patriots later in the playoffs.

You keep pointing out our ranking as a D when we lost to him.

I'm sorry it was so poor, but it was what it was.

I guess Peyton had nothing to do with it.

texaschief
03-15-2008, 04:50 AM
Both Cowher and D.V. had gone to a Super Bowl in their first four seasons.

Herm does not qualify as a "newer" head coach. This will be his eighth season as a head coach.

By this point in Cowhers, or D.V.s careers, they had both accomplished more.

Too bad Dicky couldn't call on those first 4 years of experience and figure out how to put a defense on the field for the Chiefs huh?....oh, wait....by then, he already had at least 10 years of experience over a 30 year time period.

texaschief
03-15-2008, 04:54 AM
You keep pointing out our ranking as a D when we lost to him.

I'm sorry it was so poor, but it was what it was.

I guess Peyton had nothing to do with it.

what? i'm missing something i guess. did we play Manning every game of that year or what? Is he the reason our defense was ranked nearly last in every defensive catagory?....or were the Chiefs' weaknesses already exposed and taken advantage of?

Do you think Manning created a whole new offense on the fly to counter our defense or what?

texaschief
03-15-2008, 04:55 AM
I'm out. goodnite y'all

hermhater
03-15-2008, 04:59 AM
what? i'm missing something i guess. did we play Manning every game of that year or what? Is he the reason our defense was ranked nearly last in every defensive catagory?....or were the Chiefs' weaknesses already exposed and taken advantage of?

Do you think Manning created a whole new offense on the fly to counter our defense or what?

You just posted that the Chiefs had the number one offense in the NFL.

Do you think that the Chiefs played worse defenses than the Colts those years?

And yeah I think that Manning is CAPABLE of creating a whole new offense on the fly to counter our defense.

It's called using audibles.

chief31
03-15-2008, 05:00 AM
Too bad Dicky couldn't call on those first 4 years of experience and figure out how to put a defense on the field for the Chiefs huh?....oh, wait....by then, he already had at least 10 years of experience over a 30 year time period.


Are you saying that D.V. had some weaknesses? OMG NOOOOOO!!!!!!

But he took two teams to the Super Bowl, winning one, in his first ten seasons. That sounds like he muist have had some strengths too.

What has Herm done in seven seasons? Hell, take D.V.s last seven to compare against if you like. Take Cowhers first, or last, seven seasons to compare against.

Did it work out for D.V. in K.C? Nope. Maybe he should be discreditted because he was unable to get his team to the Super Bowl in five years. (Despite the fact that he had already done it with two othwer teams.)

Then what to do with Herm, who was equally as unable to get that task completed, in the excat same window?

hermhater
03-15-2008, 05:01 AM
I'm out. goodnite y'all

Best post from you yet!

:sign0098: :bananen_smilies046: :yahoo: :D

Rep!

texaschief
03-15-2008, 04:03 PM
You just posted that the Chiefs had the number one offense in the NFL.

Do you think that the Chiefs played worse defenses than the Colts those years?

And yeah I think that Manning is CAPABLE of creating a whole new offense on the fly to counter our defense.

It's called using audibles.

umm, no.....audibles are already in your established offense...that's why all 10 of the other players know what to do when you call one. Audibles are ONLY for changing a play...Manning was not drawing plays in the dirt.

...and yes, the Chiefs OBVIOUSLY played worse defense those years:

REGULAR SEASON TOTAL DEFENSE RANK
2001-KC 23, IND 29
2002-KC 32, IND 8
2003-KC 29, IND 11
2004-KC 31, IND 29
2005-KC 25, IND 11

of course you would know this if you actually stopped to do a little research before opening your mouth.

hermhater
03-16-2008, 09:28 PM
umm, no.....audibles are already in your established offense...that's why all 10 of the other players know what to do when you call one. Audibles are ONLY for changing a play...Manning was not drawing plays in the dirt.

...and yes, the Chiefs OBVIOUSLY played worse defense those years:

REGULAR SEASON TOTAL DEFENSE RANK
2001-KC 23, IND 29
2002-KC 32, IND 8
2003-KC 29, IND 11
2004-KC 31, IND 29
2005-KC 25, IND 11

of course you would know this if you actually stopped to do a little research before opening your mouth.

Time for you to do some more research there guy.

Maybe if you opened your eyes before you opened your mouth you would have seen that I said we "do you think we played worse defenseS than the Colts" not that we played better defense than the Colts.

Now back to the audibles.

I didn't say Manning was drawing plays in the dirt, I know what an audible is jackass.

My point was that he was ALLOWED to call audibles at all.

I can't remember seeing the Chiefs use any audibles last year.