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YZILLA
03-15-2008, 09:06 PM
I can't believe the Faders are getting Hall from Atlanta ! We should have at least tried, that is one postion that is crucial to fill.

Chiefster
03-15-2008, 09:08 PM
Carl and Herm both have made it abundantly clear that they have no intention on spending money in the FA market.

texaschief
03-15-2008, 10:17 PM
Carl and Herm both have made it abundantly clear that they have no intention on spending money in the FA market.

Hall isn't a free agent for starters.
Per PFT:
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that a trade that would send cornerback DeAngelo Hall from the Falcons to the Raiders could take place within the next week.

Per Schefter, Hall was in Oakland on Friday, where he took a physical and met with Raiders owner Al Davis, head coach Lane Kiffin and defensive coordinator Rob Ryan.

Although the trade appears to be a distinct possibility, the teams havenít agreed on what the Raiders would have to give the Falcons to acquire Hall. The Raiders also havenít reached an agreement on a new contract for Hall, which would likely have to happen before a trade is completed.

Hall is believed to want a deal that would make him among the highest-paid cornerbacks in the NFL, and while that may be a case of Hall overestimating his value, the Raiders have shown a willingness to spend big money on veteran players this off-season. Defensive tackle Tommy Kelly, wide receiver Javon Walker and safety Gibril Wilson all got more money from the Raiders than most NFL observers thought they could command.

As for the compensation the Raiders would need to send to the Falcons, Schefter reports that the Falcons would likely demand at least the Raidersí second-round draft pick. If such a trade were to take place, the Falcons would have three picks in the second round: Their own, the Raidersí, and the Texansí from last yearís Matt Schaub trade.
*************
I have a hard time believing the Falcons would only want a second round pick for one of, if not THE best CB in the game. But to answer the original question, yes. I'd be pissed if the Raiders landed him for a second round pick and we did nothing to improve our team with Hall while only surrendering a second round pick. Hell, that's a position we'll probably be drafting with one of our first two picks anyways.

But i have a feeling the Raiders are going to have to give up more than just a second round pick. They will probably swap picks in the first as well as many other things.

Chief from the North
03-15-2008, 10:19 PM
Carl and Herm both have made it abundantly clear that they have no intention on spending money in the FA market.

It's going to be a long couple of years, punctuated by a half empty Arrowhead. That should be fun... :(
Thanks King Carl and Hopeless Herm. :bash:

texaschief
03-15-2008, 10:25 PM
well, guess i was wrong.

Per ESPN:

The Atlanta Falcons have reached an agreement in principle with the Oakland Raiders to trade cornerback DeAngelo Hall for the Raiders' second-round pick in the 2008 draft, pending the Raiders finalizing a contract with Hall, a source close to the Falcons told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

While a Raiders source said Hall and the team are nearing an agreement on a contract, the source close to Hall said there is "still a lot of work to get it done."

The Raiders source said the deal is expected to pay Hall just below what Asante Samuel signed with the Eagles. Samuel signed a six-year deal worth a reported $57 million, with
$20 million guaranteed.

Hall, a former first-rounder taken with the eighth pick in the 2004 draft, would be paired with Nnamdi Asomugha, giving Oakland one of the top tandems in the game.
The move would also provide insurance if Asomugha were to leave as a free agent following next season. The Raiders placed the exclusive franchise tag on Asomugha, guaranteeing him at least $9.465 million in 2008. They still would like to sign him to a long-term deal.

If the deal goes through, the Raiders would have only one draft pick in the first three rounds. Oakland picks fourth in the opening round and traded its third-round pick last year to New England for a pick used to draft offensive lineman Mario Henderson.
**************

The Falcons are getting taken in this deal. A former #8 pick/top tier corner for a second round pick?

The only good thing i see coming out of this is that the Raiders only have 1 pick on day one....and absolutely no cap space for the next century. lol

Coach
03-15-2008, 11:36 PM
The only good thing i see coming out of this is that the Raiders only have 1 pick on day one....and absolutely no cap space for the next century. lol

Yes, the faders definitely blew their load in free agency.

texaschief
03-16-2008, 01:04 AM
Yes, the faders definitely blew their load in free agency.

I hope the Chiefs stay on the same track they're on and keep building thru the draft and continue to be frugal during free agency (maybe not as frugal as THIS year) but still frugal during the next 3 or 4 years and watch the differences in these two franchises. They both had roughly the same cap room going into this offseason.

Obviously the Raiders decided to overpay free agent players in order to attract other players to go to Oakland and rebuild their team thru free agency. The biggest difference between the two teams is that Oakland has an established front runner at the QB position for their franchise's future. They better shore up the rest of their weaknesses that they'll have for the next few years in the draft because they're going to be screwed in free agency for the next few years.

The Chiefs on the other hand are having trouble keeping their players interested in staying in Kansas City. They had to over pay LJ to keep his services. Jared Allen wants to leave and the organization has cleansed itself of old players and high cap numbers. They have decided to rebuild thru the draft and the fruits of their approach probably won't come to full fruition for another couple seasons.

These two teams are really close comparisons from last season and both took drastically different approaches in rectifying their respective teams.

I'm really curious to see which approach will end up being best in the long run.

hermhater
03-16-2008, 01:13 AM
I hope the Chiefs stay on the same track they're on and keep building thru the draft and continue to be frugal during free agency (maybe not as frugal as THIS year) but still frugal during the next 3 or 4 years and watch the differences in these two franchises. They both had roughly the same cap room going into this offseason.

Obviously the Raiders decided to overpay free agent players in order to attract other players to go to Oakland and rebuild their team thru free agency. The biggest difference between the two teams is that Oakland has an established front runner at the QB position for their franchise's future. They better shore up the rest of their weaknesses that they'll have for the next few years in the draft because they're going to be screwed in free agency for the next few years.

The Chiefs on the other hand are having trouble keeping their players interested in staying in Kansas City. They had to over pay LJ to keep his services. Jared Allen wants to leave and the organization has cleansed itself of old players and high cap numbers. They have decided to rebuild thru the draft and the fruits of their approach probably won't come to full fruition for another couple seasons.

These two teams are really close comparisons from last season and both took drastically different approaches in rectifying their respective teams.

I'm really curious to see which approach will end up being best in the long run.

I almost sensed a tiny bit of humility in that last sentence.

But then again you could just be stating that so that in 2 years you can reopen this thread and say told ya so!

:biggrin:

Chiefster
03-16-2008, 11:47 PM
Hall isn't a free agent for starters...

My mistake.

Chiefster
03-16-2008, 11:52 PM
Yes, the faders definitely blew their load in free agency.


No doubt!

hermhater
03-17-2008, 12:39 AM
My mistake.

I get confused about the status of players during FA as well.

I don't always remember after I've read about their situations in the news.

hermhater
03-17-2008, 12:40 AM
No doubt!

What if the Raiders blowing their load in FA turns out to be a smart decision?

Chiefster
03-17-2008, 12:43 AM
What if the Raiders blowing their load in FA turns out to be a smart decision?

...It probably will be.

hermhater
03-17-2008, 02:15 AM
...It probably will be.

They already got the future QB. I think Jamarcus Russell might work out for them folks out in Oakland.

If these acquisitions work out well for them, Al might get the final item done on his Bucket List!

:bananen_smilies046:

dtforever
03-17-2008, 03:10 PM
i hope al bucket list is not complete for a long time so he can continue to ruin that francise

dtforever
03-17-2008, 03:13 PM
hall is nothing that cannot be replaced with a second round pick the only reason that we have heard of him is because he has a big mouth and thinks he is better than he is

DrunkHillbilly
03-17-2008, 03:39 PM
hall is nothing that cannot be replaced with a second round pick the only reason that we have heard of him is because he has a big mouth and thinks he is better than he is
:sign0153: Seriously? The dude can flat out play!!!!

royalswin100games
03-18-2008, 12:18 AM
:sign0153: Seriously? The dude can flat out play!!!!

Hall on one side, Asomua(or whatever) on the other. Brodie had better be making sure his receivers are nowhere near these guys before he throws the ball.

hermhater
03-18-2008, 01:48 AM
:sign0153: Seriously? The dude can flat out play!!!!


Hall on one side, Asomua(or whatever) on the other. Brodie had better be making sure his receivers are nowhere near these guys before he throws the ball.

Agreed!

:bananen_smilies046:

Canada
03-18-2008, 07:44 AM
Hall on one side, Asomua(or whatever) on the other. Brodie had better be making sure his receivers are nowhere near these guys before he throws the ball.

I guess we will just have to run over their dainty asses!! :bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
03-18-2008, 01:26 PM
Let's hope Halls demands kill this deal!


HALLíS DEMANDS ARE STALLING A DEAL (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/03/18/halls-demands-are-stalling-a-deal/)

Posted by Mike Florio on March 18, 2008, 8:43 a.m.
The thinking in some league circles as a result of the apparently stalled discussions on a trade between the Atlanta Falcons and the Oakland Raiders for cornerback DeAngelo Hall is that Hall and his agent are preventing a deal via their contractual demands.


Per a league source, Hallís financial expectations previously have killed possible trades to the New York Giants and the Jacksonville Jaguars. By all appearances, Hallís position on what he wants to get paid will keep a deal from getting done with the Raiders, too.


But letís consider this from Hallís perspective. The Falcons clearly donít want him, so maybe theyíll eventually cut him. And if/when they cut him, Hall might be able to get more money on the open market, if the team that wants to acquire his services doesnít also have to give up a second-round draft pick, and a sixth-rounder.


Hallís other alternative is to play for the Falcons in 2008, and become the Asante Samuel of the 2009 free-agency class, getting grossly overpaid on the first day of the annual spending spree.


The only problem for Hall is that, by getting the wheels in motion for a trade via his behavior in 2007, Hallís failure to do what he has to do to make a trade happen is causing some to conclude even more forcefully that heís an ***, which in turn could soften the demand for his services if/when heís on the market.



http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/03/18/halls-demands-are-stalling-a-deal/

royalswin100games
03-18-2008, 02:06 PM
Let's hope Halls demands kill this deal!

Nicely done hatred... rep.

:bananen_smilies046:

wolfpack
03-18-2008, 05:24 PM
somewere i thought i read the faiders were way over the cap. they`ll pay in the future, but little al dont care. he`ll probably be gone to that great last place team in the sky.
but then again the nfl will let him stay over the cap. and if he wins a super bowl they`ll fine him, like the donk`s.

Chiefster
03-21-2008, 05:21 PM
somewere i thought i read the faiders were way over the cap. they`ll pay in the future, but little al dont care. he`ll probably be gone to that great last place team in the sky.
but then again the nfl will let him stay over the cap. and if he wins a super bowl they`ll fine him, like the donk`s.


The old Iraq air force?

rbedgood
03-21-2008, 07:40 PM
somewere i thought i read the faiders were way over the cap. they`ll pay in the future, but little al dont care. he`ll probably be gone to that great last place team in the sky.
but then again the nfl will let him stay over the cap. and if he wins a super bowl they`ll fine him, like the donk`s.


Ummm...the league will not let the Raiders stay over the cap. The CBA allows the league not only the right to fine a team or take away draft picks (up to 3.5M and 2 1st round picks) but it also allows the league to waive the necessary players to get the team under the cap...

Read this article, the methodology for the league waiving players varies in different articles, but the penalties read the same
http://www.atlantafalcons.com/People/Fans/Salary_Cap_101/SCFeature.aspx

hermhater
03-21-2008, 08:30 PM
Ummm...the league will not let the Raiders stay over the cap. The CBA allows the league not only the right to fine a team or take away draft picks (up to 3.5M and 2 1st round picks) but it also allows the league to waive the necessary players to get the team under the cap...

Read this article, the methodology for the league waiving players varies in different articles, but the penalties read the same
http://www.atlantafalcons.com/People/Fans/Salary_Cap_101/SCFeature.aspx



Interesting article...

Does that last part mean that Hall won't be getting to keep his contract with Oakland?

DrunkHillbilly
03-21-2008, 10:35 PM
Interesting article...

Does that last part mean that Hall won't be getting to keep his contract with Oakland?
He will definetly get his contract!!!

hermhater
03-21-2008, 10:42 PM
He will definetly get his contract!!!

Great.

Now go play poker!

:bananen_smilies046:

rbedgood
03-27-2008, 04:50 AM
Interesting article...

Does that last part mean that Hall won't be getting to keep his contract with Oakland?

The article is a little outdated in the methodology of cutting players, the league policy now would be to cut players starting with the lowest paid and working up...

hermhater
03-27-2008, 04:52 AM
Interesting article...

Does that last part mean that Hall won't be getting to keep his contract with Oakland?


The article is a little outdated in the methodology of cutting players, the league policy now would be to cut players starting with the lowest paid and working up...


I wonder who would post an outdated article to prove their point...

:lol:

rbedgood
03-27-2008, 04:54 AM
I wonder who would post an outdated article to prove their point...

:lol:

The article I was looking for on the collective bargaining agreement was hard to find...however the data from the older article was correct on my point. I stated in my original message that the method for cutting players varied in articles, and I wasn't able to confirm it quickly at the time.

The point doesn't change...

hermhater
03-27-2008, 04:57 AM
The article I was looking for on the collective bargaining agreement was hard to find...however the data from the older article was correct on my point. I stated in my original message that the method for cutting players varied in articles, and I wasn't able to confirm it quickly at the time.

The point doesn't change...

It's ok guy, but seriously will Hall be in Oakland or not?

rbedgood
03-27-2008, 04:58 AM
It's ok guy, but seriously will Hall be in Oakland or not?

Hall will be in Oakland...I'm not sure on the status of their Franchise Tag player (the other CB), in all likelihood the Raiders will restructure a number of players contracts, and cut dead weight like Lamont Jordan and Dominic Rhodes to get under the cap.

hermhater
03-27-2008, 05:00 AM
Hall will be in Oakland...I'm not sure on the status of their Franchise Tag player (the other CB), in all likelihood the Raiders will restructure a number of players contracts, and cut dead weight like Lamont Jordan and Dominic Rhodes to get under the cap.

So does that mean the Raiders are rebuilding through FA?

rbedgood
03-27-2008, 05:02 AM
So does that mean the Raiders are rebuilding through FA?

Essentially, Al Davis is "selling out" completely for the next year or two. They'll be in a salary cap nightmare for 3-4 years after that, but he doesn't care, he won't be able to watch the games from hell.

hermhater
03-27-2008, 05:04 AM
Essentially, Al Davis is "selling out" completely for the next year or two. They'll be in a salary cap nightmare for 3-4 years after that, but he doesn't care, he won't be able to watch the games from hell.

Dude...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

texaschief
03-27-2008, 02:06 PM
last i heard was that the Raiders are STILL almost 3 million UNDER the cap....i don't see how the hell that's possible.

hermhater
03-27-2008, 02:31 PM
last i heard was that the Raiders are STILL almost 3 million UNDER the cap....i don't see how the hell that's possible.


How is that possible?:D

Chiefster
03-28-2008, 09:03 PM
last i heard was that the Raiders are STILL almost 3 million UNDER the cap....i don't see how the hell that's possible.


Al Davis is the DEBIL!

hermhater
03-28-2008, 09:08 PM
Al Davis is the DEBIL!

Seriously though, how is it possible?

texaschief
03-28-2008, 11:10 PM
They even just picked up a decent DE in Edwards.

Per PFT:
The Oakland Raiders have continued their effort to upgrade the talent on the roster via the expenditure of enormous amounts of money by signing free-agent defensive end Kalimba Edwards.

The deal, per Adam Schefter of NFL Network, is for two years and pays $5 million.

Edwards was released on March 13 by the Detroit Lions. He visited the Titans a few days later, but otherwise generated not much interest.

A second-round draft pick in 2002, Edwards spent six seasons with the Lions, appearing in 87 games and starting 22. He has 26 career sacks.
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UNF#$%ING :drunkhb: BELIEVABLE.

hermhater
03-28-2008, 11:19 PM
They even just picked up a decent DE in Edwards.

Per PFT:
The Oakland Raiders have continued their effort to upgrade the talent on the roster via the expenditure of enormous amounts of money by signing free-agent defensive end Kalimba Edwards.

The deal, per Adam Schefter of NFL Network, is for two years and pays $5 million.

Edwards was released on March 13 by the Detroit Lions. He visited the Titans a few days later, but otherwise generated not much interest.

A second-round draft pick in 2002, Edwards spent six seasons with the Lions, appearing in 87 games and starting 22. He has 26 career sacks.
***********************

UNF#$%ING :drunkhb: BELIEVABLE.

I believe you asked the question first, but I am still wondering...

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE THAT THE RAIDERS ARE STILL UNDER THE CAP??????

texaschief
03-28-2008, 11:21 PM
dude, if i knew, (you should know by now) i would tell you. :lol:

hermhater
03-28-2008, 11:32 PM
dude, if i knew, (you should know by now) i would tell you. :lol:

:lol:

I guess you're right again!

:bananen_smilies046:

rbedgood
03-30-2008, 06:12 AM
Ummm I don't see how that is possible...as of 3/10 they only had $6 million in space...that is after the Warren Sapp retirement...so the following signings have to add up to well more than $6 Million and they occured since 3/10

3/12-WR Drew Carter (1 year, $2 million)
3/14-DT William Joseph (1 year, $645,000)
3/20-CB DeAngelo Hall (was a trade, but signed long term (7 years, $70 Million)
3/28-DE Kalimba Edwards (2 years, $5 million)
...and they still have to sign the #3 pick and a couple other draft picks.

Okay, so adding up the approximate salary cap hit is

Drew Carter...2 Million (that one is easy)
Willie Jo...$645,000 (easy again)
DeAngelo Hall... between $6 and $8 million (I can explain, but the first year or two are usually lower than the average of the contract...(average is $10M)
Kalimba Edwards...about $2 million


That makes the current cap value for the Raiders about $11 million over, plus the draft, plus about 6-7 exclusive rights free agents that they have signed (meaning raises) and will have higher cap values than before...

I'm guessing them around $14-15Million over currently, with the draft looming.


By the way...I pulled the 3/10 salary cap update from http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/salary_cap.htm

and the contract values from http://www.kffl.com/team/28/nfl

I used the values available, and the CBA restrictions to come up with the most accurate estimates on salary cap value I could. Some of the information won't be released until closer to the season, so exact numbers aren't possible at this time.

hermhater
03-30-2008, 02:29 PM
Ummm I don't see how that is possible...as of 3/10 they only had $6 million in space...that is after the Warren Sapp retirement...so the following signings have to add up to well more than $6 Million and they occured since 3/10

3/12-WR Drew Carter (1 year, $2 million)
3/14-DT William Joseph (1 year, $645,000)
3/20-CB DeAngelo Hall (was a trade, but signed long term (7 years, $70 Million)
3/28-DE Kalimba Edwards (2 years, $5 million)
...and they still have to sign the #3 pick and a couple other draft picks.

Okay, so adding up the approximate salary cap hit is

Drew Carter...2 Million (that one is easy)
Willie Jo...$645,000 (easy again)
DeAngelo Hall... between $6 and $8 million (I can explain, but the first year or two are usually lower than the average of the contract...(average is $10M)
Kalimba Edwards...about $2 million


That makes the current cap value for the Raiders about $11 million over, plus the draft, plus about 6-7 exclusive rights free agents that they have signed (meaning raises) and will have higher cap values than before...

I'm guessing them around $14-15Million over currently, with the draft looming.


By the way...I pulled the 3/10 salary cap update from http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/salary_cap.htm

and the contract values from http://www.kffl.com/team/28/nfl

I used the values available, and the CBA restrictions to come up with the most accurate estimates on salary cap value I could. Some of the information won't be released until closer to the season, so exact numbers aren't possible at this time.

That explains why they are over the cap. Good job.

Now why did texas say they are under?

OTR Chiefs fan
04-01-2008, 12:18 AM
I can't believe the Faders are getting Hall from Atlanta ! We should have at least tried, that is one postion that is crucial to fill.

Yeah, but in my opinion they paid way too much money for him. Typical Fader move. :yahoo:

texaschief
04-01-2008, 03:31 AM
Apparently they were far enough under to sign this guy as well today; 3/31

Per PFT:
Displaced by the acquisition in Tampa of former Saints center Jeff Faine, former Bucs center John Wade is now in the mix to be the current Raiders center.

Per media reports, Wade has signed with the Oakland Raiders.

Wade started every game at center for the Buccaneers over the past three seasons. He joined the NFL in 1998 as a fifth-round pick of the Jaguars.
******************
I really am baffled here. There's no way this should be possible.