Reviewing KC’s offensive line

[YZILLA]

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/03/109.jpg
Brian Bahr/Getty
By Michael Ash (javascript:location.href='http://search.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=4&c=1&search=1&sskey=%22' + escape('Michael Ash') + '%22&sssiteid=115';)
Warpaint Illustrated Columnist
Posted Mar 27, 2008



After discussing what the Chiefs aren’t doing with the offensive line last week, it’s only fair to take a look at the other side of the coin. Many of the linemen already with the team will be competing for starting jobs next season, so we'll evaluate those currently on the roster.

OT Anthony Alabi (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=2979809)

Alabi played his college ball at TCU and was taken in the fifth round of the 2005 draft by Miami, back during the Dolphins’ brief Nick Saban (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=2930442) era. Coincidentally, the pick used to take Alabi originally belonged to the Chiefs, with the two teams swapping fifth-rounders that year as part of the Patrick Surtain (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=2980166) trade.

Alabi played 13 games in three years at Miami and was among their many cuts this offseason. He was claimed off waivers by four clubs, but with the worst record of the bunch, the Chiefs snagged him.

He might be an unknown, but Alabi will be in the mix this year for the starting right tackle spot.

OT Adrian Jones (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=3525473)

Herm Edwards drafted this former Jayhawk with the Jets back in 2004. He started every game during Edwards’ final year in New York, but his playing time dropped off dramatically after that season and he was ultimately released late in 2007.

The Chiefs claimed Jones off waivers, but don’t have any grand expectations for him. He’ll compete for a backup spot during camp.

OT Travis Leffew (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=3530313)

The undrafted free agent has bounced from team to team since coming into the league in 2006. The Chiefs signed him off Atlanta’s practice squad late last season and he’ll be one of many linemen trying to earn a roster spot this offseason.

OT Damion McIntosh (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=3032089)

He isn’t the long-term answer at left tackle, but McIntosh held down the fort reasonably well in his first season as a Chief. Although he’ll remain a starter in 2008, where exactly he’ll line up seems up in the air at the moment.

If the Chiefs can find a new left tackle in the draft, McIntosh is the obvious candidate to move to the opposite side of the line. But if the team can add two new tackles, or someone already on the roster steps up to fill the right tackle spot, McIntosh may be a consideration at guard.

It would be a gamble, however, considering he’s only played two games at guard in his career. He also didn’t appear to be a particularly strong run blocker last season.

C Rudy Niswanger http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2008/03/110.jpg
Will Niswanger be KC's starting center in 2008?
Brian Bahr - Getty
Considered by many to be a key part of the future of KC’s line, Niswanger looked promising in limited duty as a guard in 2007. Unfortunately, he suffered a season-ending knee injury late in the season and was forced to undergo surgery.

The good news is that he’s ahead of schedule in his recovery and should be ready for mini-camp. During Monday’s press conference, Herm Edwards said Niswanger would be the center if the season started today, so an issue that has been speculated about all offseason appears to have been resolved. This will allow Brian Waters (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=2980182) to remain at guard and returns Niswanger to the position he played at LSU.

G Tre Stallings

A sixth-round pick in 2006, Stallings has been working with Will Shields to help improve his game. He appears capable athletically, but has apparently had trouble learning the playbook. Having already used up his practice squad eligibility, and with the Chiefs likely to bring in plenty of linemen before training camp, this will be an important offseason for Stallings as he fights to stay on the roster.

OT Will Svitek (http://kan.scout.com/a.z?s=115&p=8&c=1&nid=2980201)

Once considered KC’s left tackle of the future, it seems those hopes were set a little too high. But Svitek showed promise at right tackle late last season and should be in the mix for that spot in 2008.

OT Herb Taylor

The Chiefs are high on Taylor, who was nothing short of dominant in college at TCU. He briefly filled in at left tackle against the Detroit Lions and looked solid. The team is hoping to see him step up to the next level this offseason and he’s another player who will be in consideration for a starting role at right tackle. Depending on the other options, Taylor could also have an opportunity at guard.

G Brian Waters

It’s fair to say Waters didn’t have his best season in 2007. Let’s be honest, though - one man can only hold the wall up for so long before the entire dam finally breaks. There’s been a lot of speculation as to which position he’ll line up at next year, but that subject appears to have been put to rest with the announcement of Rudy Niswanger at center.

The linchpin of the Chiefs’ line and one of the team’s most vocal leaders, Waters will be relied on heavily as the reconstruction of the offensive line gets underway. Incidentally, it seems he may be looking for a new contract.

Evaluation

Only two spots along the line appear set at this point: Brian Waters at left guard and Rudy Niswanger at center. The most anticipated scenario is that left tackle will be manned by a rookie from the first or second round of the draft, but that’s certainly not a guarantee. There are a host of potential candidates for right tackle already on the roster.

The biggest hole may be at right guard, where the Chiefs don’t appear to have an obvious solution at the moment. Moving Damion McIntosh inside is only an option if both tackle positions are already set, and even then it may not be an ideal fit. Guard is yet another position the Chiefs may need to target early on in the draft.

That brings us back to the overall problem the Chiefs are facing. Many seem to expect them to focus heavily on offensive linemen with their first few draft picks, if not throughout the entire draft itself. But that’s not a realistic solution for a team needing help in so many areas. Should Kansas City pass on talented corners and receivers just to stock up on linemen?

There’s no doubt the Chiefs have holes and question marks all over the offensive line. At this point, the best hope is that they find a few talented players in the draft while this year’s plan works out better than last year’s.

var premiumFlag = 0;

[royalswin100games]

Rep to you.

:bananen_smilies046:

[rbedgood]

I would say if they spend the 2nd rounder on a DB the remainder of the draft could be spent on O-linemen. Bowe/Webb/Sippio would be sufficient at WR if the running game returns to form.

Oh and rep added.

[hermhater]

Nice YZILLA

Unfortunately I used up all my rep this afternoon on a bunch of post whores.

Still good info.

I'm worried about the guys who couldn't even make it as a back up on other teams though.

I just don't trust Herms judgment.

[jerhart]

what's are reps? You deserve some apparently! :yahoo:

Good stuff!

-Josh

[texaschief]

I would say if they spend the 2nd rounder on a DB the remainder of the draft could be spent on O-linemen. Bowe/Webb/Sippio would be sufficient at WR if the running game returns to form.

Oh and rep added.

:sign0153: We're looking at possibly having anywhere from 10-15 picks and ONE DB is the only other position we should look at? I would be on the "fire Herm" bandwagon if we took ONE DB and 9 OL. That's just obsurd!!

I'd be surprised if we take more than 3 or 4 OL in this draft.

We will undoubtedly take an OT with one of our first 2 picks. I say this because we could either get Long at #5 or Clady around 10. If not, we'll be taking some OT with our 2nd round pick.

For the record, my prediction for our first two picks (not necessarily according to round) will be Glenn Dorsey and Sam Baker.

[hermhater]

:sign0153: We're looking at possibly having anywhere from 10-15 picks and ONE DB is the only other position we should look at? I would be on the "fire Herm" bandwagon if we took ONE DB and 9 OL. That's just obsurd!!

I'd be surprised if we take more than 3 or 4 OL in this draft.

We will undoubtedly take an OT with one of our first 2 picks. I say this because we could either get Long at #5 or Clady around 10. If not, we'll be taking some OT with our 2nd round pick.

For the record, my prediction for our first two picks (not necessarily according to round) will be Glenn Dorsey and Sam Baker.

I still have not seen any reasons not to draft Clady if Long is not available.

We need this player.

We need to fix our O line really bad guy.

The O cannot suffer for years while the D is shored up.

[royalswin100games]

:sign0153: We're looking at possibly having anywhere from 10-15 picks and ONE DB is the only other position we should look at? I would be on the "fire Herm" bandwagon if we took ONE DB and 9 OL. That's just obsurd!!

He probably didn't mean that literally, he's just agreeing with everyone else here that OL is a need.

I'd be surprised if we take more than 3 or 4 OL in this draft.

So will I.

We will undoubtedly take an OT with one of our first 2 picks. I say this because we could either get Long at #5 or Clady around 10. If not, we'll be taking some OT with our 2nd round pick.

I hope you're right.

For the record, my prediction for our first two picks (not necessarily according to round) will be Glenn Dorsey and Sam Baker.

I think Long will fall to us in the first round, if not we take Clady. I'd like to see us get Antoine Cason or Brandon Flowers in the second round.

[texaschief]

I still have not seen any reasons not to draft Clady if Long is not available.

We need this player.

We need to fix our O line really bad guy.

The O cannot suffer for years while the D is shored up.

I'm not sure that J. Long will be drafted if he IS available at #5. Everything I've heard about him says he will be a dominating RT. We already have candidates at RT. Clady seems to be a top 10 pick, just not a top 5 pick. He keeps getting compared to Levi Brown. I think the Chiefs learned a lesson from last year not to reach...especially with a top 5 pick. Again, if it's Clady they want, they will do everything they can to trade down...which concerns me that they might take a poor trade out of desperation. I just don't think that will happen.

A second round OT will fill the hole at LT just like a first round OT will....just PERHAPS not as dominatingly.

[royalswin100games]

I'm not sure that J. Long will be drafted if he IS available at #5. Everything I've heard about him says he will be a dominating RT. We already have candidates at RT. Clady seems to be a top 10 pick, just not a top 5 pick. He keeps getting compared to Levi Brown. I think the Chiefs learned a lesson from last year not to reach...especially with a top 5 pick. Again, if it's Clady they want, they will do everything they can to trade down...which concerns me that they might take a poor trade out of desperation. I just don't think that will happen.

A second round OT will fill the hole at LT just like a first round OT will....just PERHAPS not as dominatingly.

I've read Long could be a candidate for LT.

[royalswin100games]

Jake Long's strengths from Scouts Inc...

Strengths: An experienced, technically sound OT prospect with great size-potential. Is versatile; has experience at left and right tackle and could play either/both in the NFL. Also has proven capable of performing at a high level in power-run scheme and new zone-blocking scheme. Possesses excellent height, adequate bulk and the frame to get bigger if necessary. He has a massive wingspan with long arms and big hands. A natural knee-bender; he gets set quickly in pass pro, plays with good body lean and rarely gets caught lunging. He shuffles his feet quickly and can get back inside to defend double move. Uses long arms and powerful punch to jar defenders and run them wide as pass rushers. Shows excellent awareness in pass pro; consistently gives inside help and does an great job of picking up stunts, twists and blitzes. He takes very good angles as a run blocker. Has adapted very well zone-blocking and shows the mobility to execute in a similar scheme in the NFL. He has good upper-and-lower body strength as a run blocker. Also works hard to sustain and shows a good mean streak. Great intangibles. A leader and hard worker on-and-off the field. Good student in the classroom and intelligence carries over to the field, where he picks up techniques, schemes and assignments quickly.

[hermhater]

I'm not sure that J. Long will be drafted if he IS available at #5. Everything I've heard about him says he will be a dominating RT. We already have candidates at RT. Clady seems to be a top 10 pick, just not a top 5 pick. He keeps getting compared to Levi Brown. I think the Chiefs learned a lesson from last year not to reach...especially with a top 5 pick. Again, if it's Clady they want, they will do everything they can to trade down...which concerns me that they might take a poor trade out of desperation. I just don't think that will happen.

A second round OT will fill the hole at LT just like a first round OT will....just PERHAPS not as dominatingly.

I have not heard that.

I cannot believe any scout for the Chiefs (Herm) would let him go.

Are you serious?

Where are you reading this?

[texaschief]

I HAVE read it more than just this one place, but i find this written about him more times than not when it comes to J. Long's weaknesses.

Strengths:
Excellent size with long arms...Has a large frame with growth potential...Is strong, powerful and tough...Plays with a nasty demeanor and is a great finisher...Can be a dominant run blocker...Mobile and will get to the second level...Smart with great awareness...Played in a couple of different blocking schemes..Stout at the point of attack...Versatile and has played left and right tackle..Hard worker...Leader and a team captain...Nice program pedigree..Lots of experience against top competition.

Weaknesses:
Not a great natural athlete...Does not have outstanding quickness...Feet are just average...Can still improve as a pass blocker...Might not be able to play left tackle at the next level...Can be too aggressive at times...Susceptible to secondary pass rush techniques..Missed half of the 2005 season following surgery for a leg injury.

Notes:
The next in a long line of top Wolverine offensive linemen...Redshirted in '03...Lost a bunch of weight prior to the '06 season to prepare for Michigan's transition to a zone blocking scheme....Probably would've been a Top 10 overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft had he come out after his junior season...Can be a very good left tackle or a great right tackle..Probably falls somewhere in between Joe Thomas and Levi Brown as a pro prospect...Not flashy but is one of the best prospects in this draft.

[royalswin100games]

I HAVE read it more than just this one place, but i find this written about him more times than not when it comes to J. Long's weaknesses.

Strengths:
Excellent size with long arms...Has a large frame with growth potential...Is strong, powerful and tough...Plays with a nasty demeanor and is a great finisher...Can be a dominant run blocker...Mobile and will get to the second level...Smart with great awareness...Played in a couple of different blocking schemes..Stout at the point of attack...Versatile and has played left and right tackle..Hard worker...Leader and a team captain...Nice program pedigree..Lots of experience against top competition.

Weaknesses:
Not a great natural athlete...Does not have outstanding quickness...Feet are just average...Can still improve as a pass blocker...Might not be able to play left tackle at the next level...Can be too aggressive at times...Susceptible to secondary pass rush techniques..Missed half of the 2005 season following surgery for a leg injury.

Notes:
The next in a long line of top Wolverine offensive linemen...Redshirted in '03...Lost a bunch of weight prior to the '06 season to prepare for Michigan's transition to a zone blocking scheme....Probably would've been a Top 10 overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft had he come out after his junior season...Can be a very good left tackle or a great right tackle..Probably falls somewhere in between Joe Thomas and Levi Brown as a pro prospect...Not flashy but is one of the best prospects in this draft.

Then I guess no one will know if he can play LT at the next level unless it happens.

[royalswin100games]

I HAVE read it more than just this one place, but i find this written about him more times than not when it comes to J. Long's weaknesses.

Strengths:
Excellent size with long arms...Has a large frame with growth potential...Is strong, powerful and tough...Plays with a nasty demeanor and is a great finisher...Can be a dominant run blocker...Mobile and will get to the second level...Smart with great awareness...Played in a couple of different blocking schemes..Stout at the point of attack...Versatile and has played left and right tackle..Hard worker...Leader and a team captain...Nice program pedigree..Lots of experience against top competition.

Weaknesses:
Not a great natural athlete...Does not have outstanding quickness...Feet are just average...Can still improve as a pass blocker...Might not be able to play left tackle at the next level...Can be too aggressive at times...Susceptible to secondary pass rush techniques..Missed half of the 2005 season following surgery for a leg injury.

Notes:
The next in a long line of top Wolverine offensive linemen...Redshirted in '03...Lost a bunch of weight prior to the '06 season to prepare for Michigan's transition to a zone blocking scheme....Probably would've been a Top 10 overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft had he come out after his junior season...Can be a very good left tackle or a great right tackle..Probably falls somewhere in between Joe Thomas and Levi Brown as a pro prospect...Not flashy but is one of the best prospects in this draft.

That was on your post too.

[hermhater]

I HAVE read it more than just this one place, but i find this written about him more times than not when it comes to J. Long's weaknesses.

Strengths:
Excellent size with long arms...Has a large frame with growth potential...Is strong, powerful and tough...Plays with a nasty demeanor and is a great finisher...Can be a dominant run blocker...Mobile and will get to the second level...Smart with great awareness...Played in a couple of different blocking schemes..Stout at the point of attack...Versatile and has played left and right tackle..Hard worker...Leader and a team captain...Nice program pedigree..Lots of experience against top competition.

Weaknesses:
Not a great natural athlete...Does not have outstanding quickness...Feet are just average...Can still improve as a pass blocker...Might not be able to play left tackle at the next level...Can be too aggressive at times...Susceptible to secondary pass rush techniques..Missed half of the 2005 season following surgery for a leg injury.

Notes:
The next in a long line of top Wolverine offensive linemen...Redshirted in '03...Lost a bunch of weight prior to the '06 season to prepare for Michigan's transition to a zone blocking scheme....Probably would've been a Top 10 overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft had he come out after his junior season...Can be a very good left tackle or a great right tackle..Probably falls somewhere in between Joe Thomas and Levi Brown as a pro prospect...Not flashy but is one of the best prospects in this draft.

I had not heard that before.

Which scout was it?


Then I guess no one will know if he can play LT at the next level unless it happens.


Someone will find out.

[texaschief]

Then I guess no one will know if he can play LT at the next level unless it happens.

True. I just don't know if I'm spending top 5 money and a top 5 draft pick on an OT if I'm not positive if he can play LT. Just my opinion. Jake Long isn't an Orlando Pace where you KNEW he was a LT coming out.

The only position worth top 5 money, really, is QB. I don't see a QB worth taking in the top 5 this season. If someone really wants to jump up and take our pick from us, i'll be happy to take their first pick this AND next year.

[hermhater]

True. I just don't know if I'm spending top 5 money and a top 5 draft pick on an OT if I'm not positive if he can play LT. Just my opinion. Jake Long isn't an Orlando Pace where you KNEW he was a LT coming out.

The only position worth top 5 money, really, is QB. I don't see a QB worth taking in the top 5 this season. If someone really wants to jump up and take our pick from us, i'll be happy to take their first pick this AND next year.


So we are done with rebuilding then?

[texaschief]

I had not heard that before.

Which scout was it?



Scott Wright is the founder and President of NFL Draft Countdown.com. He has been scouting players and evaluating the NFL Draft since 1993.

An authority in the field, Scott has been featured as an NFL Draft expert by media outlets across the country and is a member of the Football Writers Association of America.

Wright invests countless hours per week evaluating game film and maintaining this site. His passion for the Draft and scouting players comes through in his work and he has historically had some of the most complete and precise mock drafts available, including a 1st place finish nationally in 2004.

NFL Draft Countdown.com has continued to grow over the years and now is the most popular NFL Draft site in the world. Scott is dedicated to bringing visitors the most accurate and informative site possible while continuing to cater to everyone from the novice fan to the most avid draftnik. All 100% FREE!

[texaschief]

So we are done with rebuilding then?

what? why would you say that when we have so many picks coming up in this draft?

[royalswin100games]

True. I just don't know if I'm spending top 5 money and a top 5 draft pick on an OT if I'm not positive if he can play LT. Just my opinion. Jake Long isn't an Orlando Pace where you KNEW he was a LT coming out.

The only position worth top 5 money, really, is QB. I don't see a QB worth taking in the top 5 this season. If someone really wants to jump up and take our pick from us, i'll be happy to take their first pick this AND next year.

Your post said he could be a good LT.

I don't disagree with trading the pick if Long, and now Clady, isn't available.

[hermhater]

Scott Wright is the founder and President of NFL Draft Countdown.com. He has been scouting players and evaluating the NFL Draft since 1993.

An authority in the field, Scott has been featured as an NFL Draft expert by media outlets across the country and is a member of the Football Writers Association of America.

Wright invests countless hours per week evaluating game film and maintaining this site. His passion for the Draft and scouting players comes through in his work and he has historically had some of the most complete and precise mock drafts available, including a 1st place finish nationally in 2004.

NFL Draft Countdown.com has continued to grow over the years and now is the most popular NFL Draft site in the world. Scott is dedicated to bringing visitors the most accurate and informative site possible while continuing to cater to everyone from the novice fan to the most avid draftnik. All 100% FREE!

That guy makes it sound like we have gotten it all wrong.

This should be an interesting draft!

I just can't wait for Chiefs Season!!!!!!

Every year there are sure things and busts.

I wonder what will happen this year.

[hermhater]

what? why would you say that when we have so many picks coming up in this draft?

Done rebuilding in the draft.

Aren't we gonna shore up the O line with all our picks?

Are you still saying we can do that with late picks?

[texaschief]

That was on your post too.

We can get a "GOOD" LT later in the draft. If we're spending top 5 money on a LT, he'd better be a freakin "GREAT" LT. Don't you think? It's not enough to just draft an OT, it has to be a smart choice. Just because he's hyped and shows great promise doesn't mean he will be best suited for our needs at that pick.

If we could get the same talent for the Left Tackle position at pick #5 as we could at pick #35, wouldn't you wait till pick 35 for that position while picking up some incredible talent worthy of the #5 pick, such as Gholston, Dorsey, Ellis, or McFadden?

[texaschief]

Done rebuilding in the draft.

Aren't we gonna shore up the O line with all our picks?

Are you still saying we can do that with late picks?

I just think our first pick could be best used at some other position than OT. I DO think one of our first two picks should be used on the line. I don't think the line should only be addressed with late round picks.

[royalswin100games]

We can get a "GOOD" LT later in the draft. If we're spending top 5 money on a LT, he'd better be a freakin "GREAT" LT. Don't you think? It's not enough to just draft an OT, it has to be a smart choice. Just because he's hyped and shows great promise doesn't mean he will be best suited for our needs at that pick.

If we could get the same talent for the Left Tackle position at pick #5 as we could at pick #35, wouldn't you wait till pick 35 for that position while picking up some incredible talent worthy of the #5 pick, such as Gholston, Dorsey, Ellis, or McFadden?

Agreed. But from what I've read and watched, he's a step above the other OT prospects. Also from what I've seen, Clady is closing the gap.

If we get Chris Williams, Otah, Cherilus, Baker, or Albert and they can help shore up the line, I'm happy. None of them should be taken at #5. But out of the 7 I've mentioned, I think CP and Herm owe the team to take one of them.

If we don't trade the pick and I had a choice from the last 4 you mentioned, I'd like Dorsey. He would take a lot of pressure off JA and Hali. I don't think we need Gholston. McFadden would make LJ whine and cry too much.

[hermhater]

I just think our first pick could be best used at some other position than OT. I DO think one of our first two picks should be used on the line. I don't think the line should only be addressed with late round picks.

This sounds to me like you are saying the Offensive Line is not important.

[texaschief]

Agreed. But from what I've read and watched, he's a step above the other OT prospects. Also from what I've seen, Clady is closing the gap.

If we get Chris Williams, Otah, Cherilus, or Albert and they can help shore up the line, I'm happy. None of them should be taken at #5. But out of the 6 I've mentioned, I think CP and Herm owe the team to take one of them.

If we don't trade the pick and I had a choice from the last 4 you mentioned, I'd like Dorsey. He would take a lot of pressure off JA and Hali. I don't think we need Gholston or Ellis. McFadden would make LJ whine and cry too much.

uh, trade his *** then....for perhaps Detroit's first pick or San Fran's pick. Both need RBs. lol

I'm not so sure that we will see 7 OTs taken in the first round. I'm not sure that many teams need OTs as much as they need players at other positions. We only saw 2 taken last year in the first round.

[texaschief]

This sounds to me like you are saying the Offensive Line is not important.

Really? That's what you're getting out of this? The fact that i'm not sold on J. Long as a LT or Clady being worth a top 5 pick means i don't think the OL is important? I'm just not buying into all the hype about these two guys compared to someone we could pick up 30 picks later.

[hermhater]

uh, trade his *** then....for perhaps Detroit's first pick or San Fran's pick. Both need RBs. lol

I'm not so sure that we will see 7 OTs taken in the first round. I'm not sure that many teams need OTs as much as they need players at other positions. We only saw 2 taken last year in the first round.

Do you really not believe that the Chiefs are being feared right now?

All it will take is shoring up the O line (6 picks, 4 if we're lucky) and a few DB's (easy in todays draft they are all over right?).

Are you trying to imply that Jake Long is overrated in everyones eyes here because that is our most needed position?

And you are talking about LT right?

[royalswin100games]

uh, trade his *** then....for perhaps Detroit's first pick or San Fran's pick. Both need RBs. lol

I'm not so sure that we will see 7 OTs taken in the first round. I'm not sure that many teams need OTs as much as they need players at other positions. We only saw 2 taken last year in the first round.

If only it were that simple...

If he would keep his damn mouth shut and return to the old form of running over everyone(while staying healthy) we might see, uh hum, playoffs next year. One can dream big.

I agree that we won't see 7 OT(or OL for that matter) taken in the first round. Maybe we can get two of those guys I mentioned.

[hermhater]

Really? That's what you're getting out of this? The fact that i'm not sold on J. Long as a LT or Clady being worth a top 5 pick means i don't think the OL is important? I'm just not buying into all the hype about these two guys compared to someone we could pick up 30 picks later.

If we don't go for an O lineman first then we get McFadden, if he is there.

If he isn't then I say go with the rest of you asses and trade down.

This has become depressing.

:bananen_smilies046:

[hermhater]

If only it were that simple...

If he would keep his damn mouth shut and return to the old form of running over everyone(while staying healthy) we might see, uh hum, playoffs next year. One can dream big.

I agree that we won't see 7 OT(or OL for that matter) taken in the first round. Maybe we can get two of those guys I mentioned.


U R simple

[royalswin100games]

U R simple

I am tall and simple. :D

[hermhater]

I am tall and simple. :D

You are probably simply tall.

[texaschief]

Do you really not believe that the Chiefs are being feared right now?
I do. I think we're only a few players and a year or so out from being a true contender.
All it will take is shoring up the O line (6 picks, 4 if we're lucky) and a few DB's (easy in todays draft they are all over right?).
I think if we can take an OT in the 2nd, an OL in the 4th and 5th and perhaps in the 6th or 7th, we should be fine on the line. DBs in the 1st or 3rd then in 6th or 7th.
Are you trying to imply that Jake Long is overrated in everyones eyes here because that is our most needed position? I think some people here are blinded by the NO DOUBT great need we have on the OL to the point where they can't see past that need in order to improve our team the most efficient way possible.

And you are talking about LT right?
LT is ALL i'm talking about.

I look at it this way:

Let's say our goal is to get as close to a 100 pt. mark as possible with our first two picks. Each player is worth a certain pt. number.

If J. Long is worth let's say, 45 and Glenn Dorsey is worth let's say a 55. But where J. Long is a 45 at LT and a Sam Baker or someone who would be taken at pick 35 is worth a 41, is that little extra that Long would give us really worth a whole extra round? If we take Long, who would be our 2nd round pick? Would that player be at the same worth to our team as that Baker would be? I've heard Flowers as our 2nd round pick. Would Flowers make the same impact at CB as Baker would at OT?

I'd rather see a:
Dorsey/Baker THAN
Long/Flowers

I think the value of the former would be MUCH greater than the later. IMO

I only put Baker in that scenario because he would be the WORST case scenario. I honestly believe you'll see a Cherilus or Williams available at 35.

[texaschief]

Screw it Herm....draft 15 DTs....you know you want to. :lol: :lol:

[hermhater]

I look at it this way:

Let's say our goal is to get as close to a 100 pt. mark as possible with our first two picks. Each player is worth a certain pt. number.

If J. Long is worth let's say, 45 and Glenn Dorsey is worth let's say a 55. But where J. Long is a 45 at LT and a Sam Baker or someone who would be taken at pick 35 is worth a 41, is that little extra that Long would give us really worth a whole extra round? If we take Long, who would be our 2nd round pick? Would that player be at the same worth to our team as that Baker would be? I've heard Flowers as our 2nd round pick. Would Flowers make the same impact at CB as Baker would at OT?

I'd rather see a:
Dorsey/Baker THAN
Long/Flowers

I think the value of the former would be MUCH greater than the later. IMO

I only put Baker in that scenario because he would be the WORST case scenario. I honestly believe you'll see a Cherilus or Williams available at 35.

Dude that is way too much football learnin' for a guy like me to understand.

You're asking for the bird.

And the angry parrot that looks like the one that you used to have is tied for first...

Just make sure you don't mix up the Chiefs with the Chiefs Crowd folk.

These guys all love the bird,

[hermhater]

Screw it Herm....draft 15 DTs....you know you want to. :lol: :lol:

If we go D we go CB.


U R moching me!

:drunkhb:

[texaschief]

If we go D we go CB.


U R moching me!

:drunkhb:

Me? Mock you? How could you think such things of me good sir? :D

[Three7s]

Hey, I love that bird!

[rbedgood]

:sign0153: We're looking at possibly having anywhere from 10-15 picks and ONE DB is the only other position we should look at? I would be on the "fire Herm" bandwagon if we took ONE DB and 9 OL. That's just obsurd!!

I'd be surprised if we take more than 3 or 4 OL in this draft.

We will undoubtedly take an OT with one of our first 2 picks. I say this because we could either get Long at #5 or Clady around 10. If not, we'll be taking some OT with our 2nd round pick.

For the record, my prediction for our first two picks (not necessarily according to round) will be Glenn Dorsey and Sam Baker.

I didn't realize you guys had that many picks. Heck my blasted team will be lucky to have 5 picks with the trades and penalties that have taken all their picks. So I'm not sure I need to even watch draft day this year...although I probably still will. I just get to sleep in as the 49ers don't pick until the end of the 1st round. However, I do think you need to draft 3-5 O-linemen...probably 2 DBs, and a couple mid-to-late round WRs would be a good investment. Heck remember Marques Colston (Saints) was a 7th round flier...they're out there.

[hermhater]

Hey, I love that bird!

Just for you!:biggrin:

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2007/10/274.jpg


I didn't realize you guys had that many picks. Heck my blasted team will be lucky to have 5 picks with the trades and penalties that have taken all their picks. So I'm not sure I need to even watch draft day this year...although I probably still will. I just get to sleep in as the 49ers don't pick until the end of the 1st round. However, I do think you need to draft 3-5 O-linemen...probably 2 DBs, and a couple mid-to-late round WRs would be a good investment. Heck remember Marques Colston (Saints) was a 7th round flier...they're out there.

Yep we have a ton of picks for Herm to screw up.

[chief31]

I'm not sure that J. Long will be drafted if he IS available at #5. Everything I've heard about him says he will be a dominating RT. We already have candidates at RT. Clady seems to be a top 10 pick, just not a top 5 pick. He keeps getting compared to Levi Brown. I think the Chiefs learned a lesson from last year not to reach...especially with a top 5 pick. Again, if it's Clady they want, they will do everything they can to trade down...which concerns me that they might take a poor trade out of desperation. I just don't think that will happen.

A second round OT will fill the hole at LT just like a first round OT will....just PERHAPS not as dominatingly.

And yet all of those scources still consider him the best talent at that position in this draft class. (He has LT written all over him.)


True. I just don't know if I'm spending top 5 money and a top 5 draft pick on an OT if I'm not positive if he can play LT. Just my opinion. Jake Long isn't an Orlando Pace where you KNEW he was a LT coming out.

The only position worth top 5 money, really, is QB. I don't see a QB worth taking in the top 5 this season. If someone really wants to jump up and take our pick from us, i'll be happy to take their first pick this AND next year.

Well, noone is saying that Clady isn't a LT. Why not at no.5?

[hermhater]

And yet all of those scources still consider him the best talent at that position in this draft class. (He has LT written all over him.)



Well, noone is saying that Clady isn't a LT. Why not at no.5?

Don't even bother questioning texas he says we won't pick at 5 we will trade the pick and Jared away to rebuild the team.

I guess when he talks about building from the draft he agrees with Herm and can make great talent evaluations.

[texaschief]

Well, noone is saying that Clady isn't a LT. Why not at no.5?

If Clady was rated higher, fine. Take him at 5. The point I'm trying to make is that he'll be there a few picks later, so why not try to trade down and pick up a couple more picks in the process? That's all i've been saying this WHOLE time. Why reach for a player and just get the one player when you could get the same player and a couple more picks later on in the draft?

[hermhater]

If Clady was rated higher, fine. Take him at 5. The point I'm trying to make is that he'll be there a few picks later, so why not try to trade down and pick up a couple more picks in the process? That's all i've been saying this WHOLE time. Why reach for a player and just get the one player when you could get the same player and a couple more picks later on in the draft?

And the Longhorns suck.

[chief31]

If Clady was rated higher, fine. Take him at 5. The point I'm trying to make is that he'll be there a few picks later, so why not try to trade down and pick up a couple more picks in the process? That's all i've been saying this WHOLE time. Why reach for a player and just get the one player when you could get the same player and a couple more picks later on in the draft?

I would be more than happy to see that happen. But, if they are unable to find a trade partner, then I find nothing wrong with taking your long-term LT at no.5, even if some folks rank him a few spots lower than that.

[hermhater]

Jake Long, Michigan
Ryan Clady, Boise State*
Chris Williams, Vanderbilt
Jeff Otah, Pitt
Sam Baker, USC
Gosder Cherilus, Boston College
Carl Nicks, Nebraska
Anthony Collins, Kansas*
Oneil Cousins, UTEP
John Greco, Toledo
Duane Brown, Virginia Tech
Tony Hills, Texas
Jeremy Zuttah, Rutgers
Kirk Barton, Ohio State
Barry Richardson, Clemson
Brandon Keith, Northern Iowa
King Dunlap, Auburn
Pedro Sosa, Rutgers
Mike Gibson, Cal
Breno Giacomini, Louisville
Corey Clark, Texas A&M
Tyler Polumbus, Colorado
Akim Millington, Illinois
Shannon Boatman, Florida State
Will Robinson, San Diego State
Geoff Schwartz, Oregon
Demetrius Bell, Northwestern State
Franklin Dunbar, Middle Tennessee State*
David Hale, Weber StateWhat about these guys?

[royalswin100games]

Jake Long, Michigan
Ryan Clady, Boise State*
Chris Williams, Vanderbilt
Jeff Otah, Pitt
Sam Baker, USC
Gosder Cherilus, Boston College
Carl Nicks, Nebraska
Anthony Collins, Kansas*
Oneil Cousins, UTEP
John Greco, Toledo
Duane Brown, Virginia Tech
Tony Hills, Texas
Jeremy Zuttah, Rutgers
Kirk Barton, Ohio State
Barry Richardson, Clemson
Brandon Keith, Northern Iowa
King Dunlap, Auburn
Pedro Sosa, Rutgers
Mike Gibson, Cal
Breno Giacomini, Louisville
Corey Clark, Texas A&M
Tyler Polumbus, Colorado
Akim Millington, Illinois
Shannon Boatman, Florida State
Will Robinson, San Diego State
Geoff Schwartz, Oregon
Demetrius Bell, Northwestern State
Franklin Dunbar, Middle Tennessee State*
David Hale, Weber StateWhat about these guys?

1-6 are what we should be shooting for. If CP and Herm don't draft one of those guys, they HAVE to be fired.

[hermhater]

1-6 are what we should be shooting for. If CP and Herm don't draft one of those guys, they HAVE to be fired.

Hmmm...

What would be better for the team?

A starting LT or getting rid of Carl and Herm?

Wow, that is a tough one!

:D

[texaschief]

Jake Long, Michigan
Ryan Clady, Boise State*
Chris Williams, Vanderbilt
Jeff Otah, Pitt
Sam Baker, USC
Gosder Cherilus, Boston College
Carl Nicks, Nebraska
Anthony Collins, Kansas*
Oneil Cousins, UTEP
John Greco, Toledo
Duane Brown, Virginia Tech
Tony Hills, Texas
Jeremy Zuttah, Rutgers
Kirk Barton, Ohio State
Barry Richardson, Clemson
Brandon Keith, Northern Iowa
King Dunlap, Auburn
Pedro Sosa, Rutgers
Mike Gibson, Cal
Breno Giacomini, Louisville
Corey Clark, Texas A&M
Tyler Polumbus, Colorado
Akim Millington, Illinois
Shannon Boatman, Florida State
Will Robinson, San Diego State
Geoff Schwartz, Oregon
Demetrius Bell, Northwestern State
Franklin Dunbar, Middle Tennessee State*
David Hale, Weber StateWhat about these guys?

I guarantee one, two or even 3 of those top 6 guys will be available at #35. I don't know how big the difference is between 1-6 but from what i've been reading, i don't think it's really all THAT much.

[texaschief]

btw, the Chiefs received no....NO....ZERO, compensatory picks for this year's draft.

I can't say i'm too shocked. While we released a whole lot of players, we didn't lose any GOOD players to free agency.

Oh well... guess we'll stick with the 10 picks we already have. lol

[hermhater]

I guarantee one, two or even 3 of those top 6 guys will be available at #35. I don't know how big the difference is between 1-6 but from what i've been reading, i don't think it's really all THAT much.

I'll hold you to that guarantee.

Neither you nor I have any control over who Herm and Carl take, but I want to get the best one of them as quickly as possible.

[hermhater]

btw, the Chiefs received no....NO....ZERO, compensatory picks for this year's draft.

I can't say i'm too shocked. While we released a whole lot of players, we didn't lose any GOOD players to free agency.

Oh well... guess we'll stick with the 10 picks we already have. lol

Explain how that works please.

[texaschief]

the NFL hands out "COMPENSAT(E)ory" picks every year to teams who lost players (good-great players) to free agency. The picks are supposed to help lessen the blow of the loss of the player. I'm not exactly sure how it all works because the Ravens and Bengals each got 4 extra picks. The Chargers got a 5th rounder (Michael Turner?)

I'm not sure why the Patriots didn't receive at least a 3rd rounder for Samuel. Perhaps it's another slap on the hand for "Spygate."

[rbedgood]

Explain how that works please.

First of all the picks are from the "previous years free agency"...in other words the picks are from who you signed and lost before last season. Read below, copied from Wikipedia, but it is accurate on these details.


Compensatory picks:

In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of up to 32 picks dispersed at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.
If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft.
Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.

[hermhater]

the NFL hands out "COMPENSAT(E)ory" picks every year to teams who lost players (good-great players) to free agency. The picks are supposed to help lessen the blow of the loss of the player. I'm not exactly sure how it all works because the Ravens and Bengals each got 4 extra picks. The Chargers got a 5th rounder (Michael Turner?)

I'm not sure why the Patriots didn't receive at least a 3rd rounder for Samuel. Perhaps it's another slap on the hand for "Spygate."

Thanks!


First of all the picks are from the "previous years free agency"...in other words the picks are from who you signed and lost before last season. Read below, copied from Wikipedia, but it is accurate on these details.


Compensatory picks:

In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of up to 32 picks dispersed at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.
If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft.
Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.

And thanks!

That explains a lot!

:sign0098:

[texaschief]

First of all the picks are from the "previous years free agency"...in other words the picks are from who you signed and lost before last season. Read below, copied from Wikipedia, but it is accurate on these details.

I didn't know that.
Compensatory picks:

In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of up to 32 picks dispersed at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.
If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft.
Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.

awesome.

[rbedgood]

the NFL hands out "COMPENSAT(E)ory" picks every year to teams who lost players (good-great players) to free agency. The picks are supposed to help lessen the blow of the loss of the player. I'm not exactly sure how it all works because the Ravens and Bengals each got 4 extra picks. The Chargers got a 5th rounder (Michael Turner?)

I'm not sure why the Patriots didn't receive at least a 3rd rounder for Samuel. Perhaps it's another slap on the hand for "Spygate."

The picks are for a balance of players lost or gained. So even though the Patriots lost Samuel, they may or may not even get a pick as they also made some signings.

As for the Chargers they will likely get an even higher one next year as Turner and Neal were big losses, and they haven't made a lot of noise signing free agents this offseason. I don't believe released players count towards these, only scheduled free agents (RFA AND UFAs) that are lost...but I haven't been able to verify that. Doesn't make sense for example that the Chiefs would get compensated for losing Law when they actually cut him.

[texaschief]

right. i agree. we cut a bunch, not necessarily "lost" them.

[chief31]

I guarantee one, two or even 3 of those top 6 guys will be available at #35. I don't know how big the difference is between 1-6 but from what i've been reading, i don't think it's really all THAT much.

Bold prediction. I would be surprised to see more than one of them available.

Unless the teams with the higher draft positions decide to wait until the second round, which could screw them pretty hard, then I could see all of those six gone when the Chiefs are up for their second pick.

[texaschief]

Bold prediction. I would be surprised to see more than one of them available.

Unless the teams with the higher draft positions decide to wait until the second round, which could screw them pretty hard, then I could see all of those six gone when the Chiefs are up for their second pick.

So you're saying 1/5 of the league are taking tackles with their first pick? I wasn't aware so many teams needed OT's compared to last season where 2 were taken in the first.

Glad to know we're not the only procrastonators in the league.

[hermhater]

So you're saying 1/5 of the league are taking tackles with their first pick? I wasn't aware so many teams needed OT's compared to last season where 2 were taken in the first.

Glad to know we're not the only procrastonators in the league.

Who led the led the league last year in rushing?

Did you kiss him on the lips?

:cool:

[texaschief]

Who led the led the league last year in rushing?

Did you kiss him on the lips?

:cool:

:sign0153:

[hermhater]

:sign0153:

Bad reference, my bad.

Just saying that LT had the best rushing last year.

[chief31]

So you're saying 1/5 of the league are taking tackles with their first pick? I wasn't aware so many teams needed OT's compared to last season where 2 were taken in the first.

Glad to know we're not the only procrastonators in the league.

So glad that I could help you out then.

St. Louis ; Atlanta ; Miami ; Kansas City ; Baltimore ; Chicago ; Houston ; New England ; San Francisco ; Oakland ; Carolina ; Detroit ; N.Y. Jets ; Jacksonville and Pittsburgh all need to upgrade at OT at some point. Some of them have a need to upgrade both OT spots.

(N.E is an exception, but seein' as how poorly their OTs did in the Super Bowl, Bellicheat might make a statement.)

And why would it be so hard to believe that five or six of them would grab a first round talent to do so? Maybe not, but like I said, I would be rather surprised to see fewer than five of them gone when we draft in the second round.

[texaschief]

And why would it be so hard to believe that five or six of them would grab a first round talent to do so? Maybe not, but like I said, I would be rather surprised to see fewer than five of them gone when we draft in the second round.

2007:
Joe Thomas
Levi Brown
Joe Staley

2006:
D'Brick Ferguson

2005:
Jammal Brown
Alex Barron

2004:
Gallery
Andrews
Carey

2003:
Gross
Foster
Harris

2002:
Williams
McKinnie
Jones
Colombo

2001:
Walker
Backus

2000:
Samuels
McDougle
Chris McIntosh

In the last 8 drafts, only one year were there as many as 4 OTs taken. I just don't see this season as being that extraordinary. Plus, just because those teams have OT needs, they're smart enough not to reach for those guys in the first round. Not all of those guys are first round talent. Hell, one or two of them could still be available in the third.

[hermhater]

2007:
Joe Thomas
Levi Brown
Joe Staley

2006:
D'Brick Ferguson

2005:
Jammal Brown
Alex Barron

2004:
Gallery
Andrews
Carey

2003:
Gross
Foster
Harris

2002:
Williams
McKinnie
Jones
Colombo

2001:
Walker
Backus

2000:
Samuels
McDougle
Chris McIntosh

In the last 8 drafts, only one year were there as many as 4 OTs taken. I just don't see this season as being that extraordinary. Plus, just because those teams have OT needs, they're smart enough not to reach for those guys in the first round. Not all of those guys are first round talent. Hell, one or two of them could still be available in the third.


Whether or not it's extraordinary it's what we need to do.