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texaschief
04-03-2008, 04:45 AM
This is the first semi-mock draft Iíve done. Iím going to go seven rounds. Iíll present different options the Chiefs will have at different points throughout the draft.

This draft all starts with available talent. While we obviously want offensive linemen, the Chiefs need to resist the urge to reach just to fill a need.

In the first round, I see the Chiefs keeping their #5 pick and taking Sedrick Ellis. I think Dorsey will be gone and J. Long will probably be gone as well. In this scenario, the Chiefs make no trades during the entire draft. This draft will be called DRAFT A.

There is an option of trading out of the #5 pick. If we do so, I think weíre looking at trading down to the teems somewhere in the teens while picking up an additional 2nd and 3rd rounder. This scenario, where the Chiefs make some draft day trades will be called DRAFT B.

All player notes provided by NFLDraftCountdown.com


DRAFT A
No trades:
1. 5-DT Sedrick Ellis
Strengths:
Very quick with a great first step...Very strong and powerful...A terrific pass rusher with the burst to close...Athletic with good speed...Instinctive...Sheds blocks well and is able to beat the double team...Is technically sound when it comes to using his hands and understanding leverage...Has a non-stop motor...Tough and a very hard worker with top-notch intangibles...Has experience at both tackle positions.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't have the ideal height or bulk that you look for...Has some minor durability issues...Might have some trouble holding his ground at the point against massive blockers...Limited schematically and probably won't be a perfect fit for every team.

Notes:
Could be a prototypical three-technique at the pro level...Redshirted in 2003 after breaking his left ankle and missed some time in '06 with a knee injury..Productive, disruptive force in the middle..A better prospect than Mike Patterson was in 2005.
2. 35-OT Gosder Cherilus
Strengths:
Has excellent size and a huge frame with long arms...Strong and powerful..Gets a great push as a run blocker...Decent athlete...Has nimble feet..Mobile and can get to the second level...Very smart with great awareness...Nice balance...He is stout at the point of attack...Once he locks on the battle's over...A hard worker with top intangibles...Has a ton of experience against top-notch competition...Offers some versatility..Hails from a program that's known for producing NFL offensive linemen.

Weaknesses:
Has some trouble with speedy edge rushers...May lack a killer instinct..Has lapses with his leverage and will play too high at times...Most likely won't be a left tackle in the pros...Didn't have a great senior year..Had some minor off-the-field trouble.

Notes:
Name is pronounced "GOZ-der SHARE-uh-luss"...Born in Haiti...A four-year starter in the ACC...Started 37 consecutive games at right tackle but he moved to the left side as a senior and had some struggles...Was arrested and charged with assault and battery in July of 2007 in connection with a bar fight, although Cherilus claims he was acting as a peacemaker...Not flashy but has the physical tools and should start almost immediately..Prototypical right tackle who should enjoy a long career.
3. 66-CB Justin King
Strengths:
Smooth athlete...Good size and bulk...Outstanding speed with a burst...Fluid and flips his hips well...Quick and agile with excellent feet...Excellent hands...A reliable tackler...Has a lot of experience against elite competition...Very smart and a hard worker....Versatile and can also contribute as a return man...Has a ton of upside.

Weaknesses:
Not very strong or physical...Struggles with big wideouts...Raw and needs a lot of work when it comes to technique..Has a long memory...Sub par ball skills and isn't much of a playmaker...Questionable awareness and instincts...Underachiever who does not play to his measurables...Might lack a fire in his belly...Workout Warrior?

Notes:
Stepfather, Terry Smith, was a wide receiver at Penn State from 1988-91...One of the nation's premier recruits coming out of high school...Three-year starter in the Big Ten...Was able to graduate from college in just 35 months..Also saw extensive action at wide receiver early in his career...A finesse corner with all of the physical tools you look for but something seems to be missing...An enigma who could be a stud if the light ever comes on but he will need a lot of coaching..."Boom or Bust".
4. 105-OT Barry Richardson
Strengths:
Outstanding size with a huge frame and long arms...Terrific athleticism...Very light on his feet...Great lateral mobility and range...Gets to the second level...Excellent pass blocker...Good body control...Once he locks on the battle's over...Has a lot of experience against big-time competition...Offers some versatility...Still has upside.

Weaknesses:
Plays soft...Lacks a killer instinct and is not aggressive...Has to get stronger...Gets pushed around and doesn't play to his size...Poor technique and he does not play with good leverage...Gets caught reaching too often...Effort is pretty inconsistent.

Notes:
Graduated from high school in just three years..A four-year starter at left tackle in the ACC...Held future #1 overall pick Mario Williams without a sack in '05...Classic case of a prospect who "Looks like Tarzan, Plays Like Jane"...Has all the physical tools you look for but is an underachiever...Could be a steal if some coach can get him to be more nasty but it's difficult to change a guys demeanor and personality.
5. 136-WR Adrian Arrington
Strengths:
Smooth athlete...Nice size and bulk with long arms..Good hands and will make the spectacular catch...Great leaping ability and ball skills...Can do some damage after the catch..Tough...Will work the middle of the field...Still improving and has upside.

Weaknesses:
Does not have great timed speed or quickness...Is not very explosive and lacks a burst...Needs to get stronger...Is not a great route runner...Lack of concentration leads to some drops...Questionable motor...Marginal blocker...Doesn't have a ton of experience...Was never the featured target in college...Has character concerns.

Notes:
Would have had the opportunity to emerge from Mario Manningham's shadow as a senior in 2008 but chose to go pro early rather than try to adapt to the spread offense being installed by Rich Rodriguez...Was only a starter for about a season and a half...Has been suspended on more than one occasion and in 2006 he was arrested and charged with misdemeanor domestic violence following an argument with his girlfriend..Would have been much better off going back to Ann Arbor...Has some tools but his lack of speed and off-the-field issues will hurt him on Draft Day.
6. 140-OG/OT Jerremy Zuttah
Strengths:
Good athleticism...Terrific speed and quickness...Extremely strong...Explosive and powerful...Mobile with nice range...Uses his hands well...Versatile with experience at multiple positions..Smart with good awareness and instincts...Great work ethic.

Weaknesses:
Size and bulk are somewhat average...Doesn't have great footwork...Has trouble with speed...May be a 'tweener without a true pro position...Does not necessarily play to his workout numbers...Does not dominate opponents...Durability concerns.

Notes:
Was a four-year starter for the Scarlet Knights...Has played both guard and tackle in college and could also project to center at the next level..Has missed some time with knee and ankle injuries...Opened some eyes with a standout performance at the Scouting Combine when he placed among the Top 10 offensive linemen in four events including the forty and bench press..Has starting potential but versatility is the hallmark of his game and that may allow him to at least be a valuable backup.
7. 172-CB Jack Williams
Strengths:
A great athlete...Excellent speed and quickness...Outstanding leaper..Good hands and ball skills...Solid instincts and awareness..Reads and reacts well and he has a burst to close...Is very strong...Tough and physical...Gets a good jam at the line of scrimmage...Willing to come up and support the run..A hard worker...Team leader.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't have the ideal size and bulk that you would prefer..Not real fluid when he flips his hips to turn and run...Had a sub par senior campaign...Durability might be a concern...Takes too many chances...Questionable return ability...Limited upside.

Notes:
Battled ankle injuries as a senior and it affected to his play but to his credit he did not miss much action...Can't match his former teammate Usama Young in terms of triangle numbers but might be a better football player...Underrated prospect who is a lot better than his senior film would indicate...Prototypical nickel or dime back.
8. 187-QB Brad Roach

texaschief
04-03-2008, 04:46 AM
9. 210-WR Maurice Purify
Strengths:
Excellent size and great bulk with a solid frame...Has long arms and big hands...Is strong and physical...Very aggressive with great ball skills and body control...Can make the spectacular catch...Decent athleticism...Knows how to use his size to his advantage...A fantastic leaper...Can be a terror in the redzone...Pretty productive.

Weaknesses:
Not very explosive and lacks a burst...Will struggle to separate..Is not real elusive and won't do much after the catch...Does not have reliable hands...Is not a great route runner...Not nearly as good of a blocker as he should be...Only two years of DI experience...He won't stretch the field vertically...Has some character concerns.

Notes:
Highly-touted JUCO transfer from San Francisco City College..His nephew is former Colorado tailback Bobby Purify...Was arrested in '06 on two counts of assault and one count of resisting arrest and then just five weeks later he was arrested again for suspicion of drunken driving...Ironically he was a criminal justice major...He has some physical tools to work with but will need to keep his nose clean off the field.
10. 239-OG Donald Thomas
Strengths:
Adequate size and bulk...Above average athleticism...Great feet...Good speed and quickness...Mobile with good range...Can pull and get to the second level...Strong and powerful...Has a excellent initial punch....Still improving and has some upside.

Weaknesses:
Very inconsistent...Isn't a great technician at this point...Has a thin lower body...Is not real stout at the point of attack...Poor balance...Questionable awareness...He may have some off-the-field concerns..Only a one-year starter...Workout Warrior?

Notes:
Was enrolled at UConn in 2003 but did not play football and then he redshirted in 2004...Just 14 career starts...Made his greatest impact on special teams early in his college career...In 2006 he was arrested for assault...A very talented prospect who has some intriguing physical tools but is somewhat of a developmental type.

DRAFT B
ē The Chiefs trade pick #5, #105 and #189 to the Chicago Bears who need a franchise RB for picks numbers #14, #44, #75 and #177. The trading of picks brings the point total to withing 4 pts with the advantage going to the Bears.
1. 14-OG/OT Branden Albert
Strengths:
Excellent size with a big frame and long arms...Fantastic athlete...Good quickness and agility...Strong and physical...Is nasty with a killer instinct...Mobile with decent range to pull and get to the second level...Smart with good awareness...Excellent pass blocker and also gets a decent push in the run game...Real versatile..Leader with great intangibles...Tough and durable..Still improving and has a lot of upside.

Weaknesses:
Still has some work to do in the technique department...Can be inconsistent with his leverage...Motor runs hot and cold at times..Not a dominant run blocker...Has to work on holding his blocks and finishing....He is still relatively new to the game.

Notes:
Did not begin playing football until his junior year of high school in 2002..Was also a standout basketball player as a prep...Stepped in as a true freshman and was a three-year starter for the Cavs ( 36 games )...Named a team captain as a junior in 2007...He started a couple of games at left tackle as a junior in place of an injured Eugene Monroe and could possibly play outside at the pro level as well...First-rate talent with exceptional physical tools....Already a great all-around player however his best days are still ahead...The rare offensive guard who is a legit first rounder.
2. 35-OT Gosder Cherilus (see above)
3. 44-WR Malcom Kelley (Oklahoma)
4. 66-CB Charles Godfrey
Strengths:
Has excellent size with a solid frame and long arms...Outstanding timed speed...A fantastic athlete...Real quick with a burst to close...Very good ball skills...Is strong and tough...Physical and aggressive...A reliable tackler...Will deliver the big hit...Is versatile with experience at two positions...Still improving and has a huge upside.

Weaknesses:
Extremely raw and still learning the position...Has to work on his technique when it comes to footwork and positioning...Marginal instincts and awareness...Doesn't play as fast as he times...Inconsistent and gives up too many big plays...He relies too heavily on his natural talent...Risky and might be a bit of a "Workout Warrior".

Notes:
Older brother El Roberson played quarterback at Kansas State...He played safety early in his college career and only moved to corner in '06...Finally started to fulfill his potential as a senior...Will test through the roof and it'll be easy to fall in love with his measurables but he is still somewhat of a developmental guy...He'll likely be chosen relatively early based more on potential than actual college production.
5. 75-WR Jordy Nelson
Strengths:
Has excellent size and bulk with a solid frame...Very productive...Has soft, reliable hands...Shows terrific body control and ball skills...He's more quick than fast...Can run after the catch a bit...Smart, hard working and tough...Still has a little upside.

Weaknesses:
Does not have great timed speed and lacks a burst...Is not much of a deep threat and won't stretch the field vertically...Is just a slightly above average blocker...Still relatively new to the position & must work on mastering its techniques / nuances.

Notes:
Began his college career as a defensive back and only moved to wide receiver in '05...In high school he won state titles in the 100, 200, 400 and long jump...Had a huge senior campaign and really gave his draft stock a boost...Profiles as more of a possession guy in the NFL but could surprise if he can run better than expected.
6. 110-CB Chevis Jackson
Strengths:
Nice size with long arms...A smooth athlete....Strong...Instinctive...Tough, physical and aggressive...Good hands and ball skills...Has fluid hips to transition...Reliable tackler...Solid against the run...Has lots of experience...Mature and a hard worker.

Weaknesses:
Timed speed is merely average...Doesn't change direction well...Needs to improve his footwork...Can be too aggressive at times...He'll have a difficult time manning up speed receivers...Might be more of a system guy...Upside is most likely limited.

Notes:
Was a three-year starter in the SEC..Is cut from the same mold as guys like Travis Daniels, Corey Webster and Mark Roman...Will play in the league and should be a solid pro but probably not much more..Looks to be best suited for a zone scheme.
7. 136-OG/OT Jeremy Zuttah (see above)
8. 140-DT Frank Okam
Strengths:
Has outstanding size and a huge frame...Very strong and powerful...A pretty good athlete for a guy with his dimensions..Has shown the ability to take on blocks and split the double team...Good run defender...A decent bull rusher...Good range and mobility...Really smart...Schematically versatile...Solid production...Still has upside.

Weaknesses:
Needs to play with better leverage...Doesn't have a great motor...Isn't much of a pass rusher...Lacks quickness and a burst...Is not stout at the point...Stamina has been an issue...Instincts are questionable...Plays undisciplined...Is on the ground too much...Extremely inconsistent and does not always play up to his talent level.

Notes:
A member of the UT Athletics Director's Honor Roll...Possible 3-4 nose tackle...Hails from the same college program that has produced guys like Casey Hampton, Cory Redding, Shaun Rogers and Marcus Tubbs in recent years...Has all of the physical tools you look for but he may lack the intangibles necessary to be great...A classic underachiever who could excel if motivated but is just as likely to be a major bust.
9. 172-CB Jack Williams (see above)
10. 177-WR Adrian Arrington (see above)
11. 210-QB Brad Roach
12. 239-CB Brian Witherspoon
Strengths:
A smooth natural athlete...Blazing fast with rare timed speed...Has an outstanding burst to break and recover when beat...Very fluid hips and flips them well....Great leaper...Terrific hands and can be a playmaker...Lots of potential as a return man.

Weaknesses:
Did not play against top competition...Isn't very strong or physical....Needs to bulk up and add weight...Sub par tackler...Struggles to get a jam at the line...Lacks top instincts and awareness..Is raw in terms of technique and will need a ton of work.

Notes:
Started out at Alabama St. in 2003 but did not play football there...Also a Division II Track All-American at Stillman and he even played some baseball for the Tigers as well....Might be more of a track guy playing football than the other way around but when you're as fast as he is it almost guarantees you a serious look from pro scouts...Probably viewed as more of a return specialist at this point...An intriguing developmental prospect who might be a perfect candidate for the practice squad.

hermhater
04-03-2008, 04:55 AM
Did you make that up?

texaschief
04-03-2008, 04:56 AM
lol...uh, yeah. except the player notes.

texaschief
04-03-2008, 04:58 AM
ok. i'm out. get some sleep HH

hermhater
04-03-2008, 04:59 AM
lol...uh, yeah. except the player notes.

:sign0098:

DrunkHillbilly
04-03-2008, 09:45 AM
Never thought I would say this.......Thank god for Peterson and Edwards!!!

royalswin100games
04-03-2008, 09:47 AM
I thought Malcom Kelly was projected for the first round.

texaschief
04-03-2008, 03:52 PM
I thought Malcom Kelly was projected for the first round.

Perhaps he could go in the first, but i could definitely see him slide to the 2nd round at #44. There aren't too many teams dying to take a WR early because it's such a deep class. I think Kelly will be the 4th or 5th WR taken. We could possibly even get a better WR prospect such as Sweed. But, i only think we grab a WR if we trade the #5 pick.

royalswin100games
04-04-2008, 10:40 AM
Perhaps he could go in the first, but i could definitely see him slide to the 2nd round at #44. There aren't too many teams dying to take a WR early because it's such a deep class. I think Kelly will be the 4th or 5th WR taken. We could possibly even get a better WR prospect such as Sweed. But, i only think we grab a WR if we trade the #5 pick.

I thought Kelly was rated higher than Sweed... at least on the stuff I read.

texaschief
04-09-2008, 12:41 AM
I keep reading that Chad Henne is rocketing up most draft boards and could possibly go late in the first round....those of you looking for your own Tom Brady might want to take notice because i think he'll still be there for our 2nd pick. As may Flacco. If we don't take a QB in the first 2 rounds, i hope we don't take one at all.

hermhater
04-09-2008, 01:04 AM
I keep reading that Chad Henne is rocketing up most draft boards and could possibly go late in the first round....those of you looking for your own Tom Brady might want to take notice because i think he'll still be there for our 2nd pick. As may Flacco. If we don't take a QB in the first 2 rounds, i hope we don't take one at all.

I would LOVE to get Flacco.

If he is available and Herm doesn't take him then I will have to change my username to superhermhater.

rbedgood
04-09-2008, 12:00 PM
I would LOVE to get Flacco.

If he is available and Herm doesn't take him then I will have to change my username to super-shorthermhater.

FYP :character0023:

Coach
04-09-2008, 06:07 PM
FYP :character0023:

:funnypost: :lol:

Chiefster
04-09-2008, 06:19 PM
:funnypost: :lol:

Ditto! :bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
04-09-2008, 08:19 PM
FYP :character0023:


:funnypost: :lol:


Ditto! :bananen_smilies046:


You all just moved up a spot on my list!

:mob:

Chiefster
04-09-2008, 09:03 PM
You all just moved up a spot on my list!

:mob:

...Take it easy Francis - Psycho...


YouTube - Stripes - Prepping for Graduation

royalswin100games
04-09-2008, 09:19 PM
...Take it easy Francis - Psycho...


YouTube - Stripes - Prepping for Graduation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCHTzumpk4Q)


I love the classics. :sign0098: Chiefster.

Chiefster
04-09-2008, 09:31 PM
I love the classics. :sign0098: Chiefster.

...Me too. :D

hermhater
04-09-2008, 10:51 PM
...Take it easy Francis - Psycho...


YouTube - Stripes - Prepping for Graduation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCHTzumpk4Q)


:lol:

Love it!

:yahoo:

Chiefster
04-12-2008, 11:00 AM
:lol:

Love it!

:yahoo:

They don't make many good comadies like they used to.

hermhater
04-12-2008, 11:56 PM
They don't make many good comadies like they used to.


I don't know about that, I just watched "There's something about Mary" last night and it cracks me up every time!

:lol:

texaschief
04-13-2008, 03:21 AM
Well, I've been convinced. If the Chiefs can't find a trade partner to trade the #5 pick to, they're going to draft Matt Ryan.

From what i heard, the Chiefs like Croyle, but they like Ryan even more. For the most part, this decision is being driven by the OC and the old GM.

Apparently, Gailey liked what he saw from film of Ryan more than he liked film of Croyle. Also, with Peterson on the hot seat knows he needs to have a super draft to help extend his stay in KC. If they draft a perceived franchise QB like Ryan, it could buy Peterson a few more years to rebuild this team.

While I think this team is really close, the consensus seems to be that this Chiefs team needs at least another 2 or 3 years to rebuild.

While there are obvious needs on the line and on defense that need to be addressed, drafting a QB who will be handed the reins to the offense will create stability and a clear direction for the team. Also, in Ryan's scouting report, he is said to be a true and proven, natural leader...something i think this team desperately needs.

There is also something to be said about which positions actually deserve top 5 money....and QB is truly one of those positions.

I hope the Chiefs don't draft Ryan and are able to trade down, but seeing the top rated QB on that stage holding a #1 Chiefs Jersey would be pretty cool.

hermhater
04-13-2008, 03:43 AM
Well, I've been convinced. If the Chiefs can't find a trade partner to trade the #5 pick to, they're going to draft Matt Ryan.

From what i heard, the Chiefs like Croyle, but they like Ryan even more. For the most part, this decision is being driven by the OC and the old GM.

Apparently, Gailey liked what he saw from film of Ryan more than he liked film of Croyle. Also, with Peterson on the hot seat knows he needs to have a super draft to help extend his stay in KC. If they draft a perceived franchise QB like Ryan, it could buy Peterson a few more years to rebuild this team.

While I think this team is really close, the consensus seems to be that this Chiefs team needs at least another 2 or 3 years to rebuild.

While there are obvious needs on the line and on defense that need to be addressed, drafting a QB who will be handed the reins to the offense will create stability and a clear direction for the team. Also, in Ryan's scouting report, he is said to be a true and proven, natural leader...something i think this team desperately needs.

There is also something to be said about which positions actually deserve top 5 money....and QB is truly one of those positions.

I hope the Chiefs don't draft Ryan and are able to trade down, but seeing the top rated QB on that stage holding a #1 Chiefs Jersey would be pretty cool.

Hmmm...

I was right all along since you agree with me now.

:biggrin:

chief31
04-13-2008, 07:56 AM
Well, I've been convinced. If the Chiefs can't find a trade partner to trade the #5 pick to, they're going to draft Matt Ryan.

From what i heard, the Chiefs like Croyle, but they like Ryan even more. For the most part, this decision is being driven by the OC and the old GM.

Apparently, Gailey liked what he saw from film of Ryan more than he liked film of Croyle. Also, with Peterson on the hot seat knows he needs to have a super draft to help extend his stay in KC. If they draft a perceived franchise QB like Ryan, it could buy Peterson a few more years to rebuild this team.

While I think this team is really close, the consensus seems to be that this Chiefs team needs at least another 2 or 3 years to rebuild.

While there are obvious needs on the line and on defense that need to be addressed, drafting a QB who will be handed the reins to the offense will create stability and a clear direction for the team. Also, in Ryan's scouting report, he is said to be a true and proven, natural leader...something i think this team desperately needs.

There is also something to be said about which positions actually deserve top 5 money....and QB is truly one of those positions.

I hope the Chiefs don't draft Ryan and are able to trade down, but seeing the top rated QB on that stage holding a #1 Chiefs Jersey would be pretty cool.

Guru said this too, butIcouldn't disagree more. Top-five money is more for a QB than any other position. And a top-five rookie QB often doesn't play for a full season, and also temds to be horrible for another season. Where is the value in that?

Any other position, you can expect them to start, and probably make in impact in those first two seasons, that are a waste for most QBs.

For me, seeing the top-rated QB on the stage, with a Chiefs jersey would be humiliating. It would signify that we will be filling our four open starting jobs (OL,OL,OL,CB) with more late-round prayers.

It would signify the beginning of a rebuiding process, that was supposed to have begun two years ago. This is Herms third draft. This will be his third season. That is when results are supposed to start showing. If the "results" of three years of Herm are a brand new rebuilding process, then I believe that that is what can be expected from Herm Edwards' career. An eternal rebuild.

texaschief
04-14-2008, 12:13 AM
Guru said this too, butIcouldn't disagree more. Top-five money is more for a QB than any other position. And a top-five rookie QB often doesn't play for a full season, and also temds to be horrible for another season. Where is the value in that?

Any other position, you can expect them to start, and probably make in impact in those first two seasons, that are a waste for most QBs.

For me, seeing the top-rated QB on the stage, with a Chiefs jersey would be humiliating. It would signify that we will be filling our four open starting jobs (OL,OL,OL,CB) with more late-round prayers.

It would signify the beginning of a rebuiding process, that was supposed to have begun two years ago. This is Herms third draft. This will be his third season. That is when results are supposed to start showing. If the "results" of three years of Herm are a brand new rebuilding process, then I believe that that is what can be expected from Herm Edwards' career. An eternal rebuild.

The Chiefs are already showing "results" from his first two drafts which were geared toward fixing the worst ranked defense in the NFL. Now, if it takes him 2 more years to fix the worst ranked offense in the league, so be it.

chief31
04-14-2008, 12:55 AM
The Chiefs are already showing "results" from his first two drafts which were geared toward fixing the worst ranked defense in the NFL. Now, if it takes him 2 more years to fix the worst ranked offense in the league, so be it.

Five years to show real results? I don't think so. 4-12 is far from the "results" that I would be looking for.

hermhater
04-14-2008, 01:08 AM
Five years to show real results? I don't think so. 4-12 is far from the "results" that I would be looking for.

Thank you.

Who didn't see this coming from years back?

royalswin100games
04-14-2008, 01:17 AM
Five years to show real results? I don't think so. 4-12 is far from the "results" that I would be looking for.

Agreed.

:bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
04-14-2008, 01:55 AM
I got nothing just whoring.

:biggrin:

Guru
04-14-2008, 02:18 AM
Five years to show real results? I don't think so. 4-12 is far from the "results" that I would be looking for.

That is a sound philosophy if you have a coach that actually gives a crap about both sides of the ball. We haven't had a coach like that since Hank.

hermhater
04-14-2008, 02:59 AM
That is a sound philosophy if you have a coach that actually gives a crap about both sides of the ball.

We haven't had a coach like that since Hank.



FYR.

:D

Guru
04-14-2008, 03:03 AM
If you say so.

hermhater
04-14-2008, 03:16 AM
The Chiefs are already showing "results" from his first two drafts which were geared toward fixing the worst ranked defense in the NFL. Now, if it takes him 2 more years to fix the worst ranked offense in the league, so be it.


Five years to show real results? I don't think so. 4-12 is far from the "results" that I would be looking for.


Thank you.

Who didn't see this coming from years back?


Agreed.

:bananen_smilies046:


That is a sound philosophy if you have a coach that actually gives a crap about both sides of the ball. We haven't had a coach like that since Hank.


FYR.

:D


If you say so.

I concur.

(cue rbedgood's thesaurus)

Guru
04-14-2008, 03:18 AM
HH, step away from the keyboard.

hermhater
04-14-2008, 03:25 AM
HH, step away from the keyboard.

I'm good guy.

I was just mocking rbedgood because he told me a few days ago that I have no vocabulary and use an online thesaurus when I replied to him.

He likes to say I'm inarticulate, so I thought I would give him fodder.

texaschief
04-14-2008, 01:46 PM
Five years to show real results? I don't think so. 4-12 is far from the "results" that I would be looking for.

Really? You don't see ANY improvement on this team? Are you really THAT blinded by the 4-12 record? We all know the offense sucked which primarily led to that 4-12 record. But we also lost our RB and had horrible QB play to go along with a poor line. They also didn't have a #1 reciever the ENTIRE season.

Your Herm hating has blinded you if you think this team AS IS will be 4-12 again next season.

Your attitude toward the coach and the impatience most exude on this site is what is wrong with the modern day NFL fan. People saw what Jimmy Johnson did in 4 years and what John Gruden did in 1 year in Tampa and now if their team isn't in the Super Bowl after 2 years of a coaching change, they're ready for another one. It's just flawed thinking.

When coaches step in and immediately show improvement, it's usually because their predecessor has set them up with a solid roster thru previous drafts.

Now, the Chiefs right now, have the same opportunity to come close to what JJ did in Dallas by trading LJ. JJ brought back 6 picks for Herschell Walker. The Chiefs could bring back at least 3 for Johnson if they decided to trade him. Johnson built that team thru the draft (which is what Herm is doing) but he was able to draft many more players at one time because of the trade.

It's just going to take longer to do a complete rebuild like the one the Chiefs are trying to do now.

The 2005 defense had to be rebuilt.
DL:Allen, Sims, Browning, Dalton, Hicks
LB: DJ, Barber, Mitchell, Bell
DB: Surtain, McCleon, Wesley, Knight

3 starters remain. You POSSIBLY could make a case for keeping Mitchell, but he was never good here and he wasn't good enough to keep his job in NY.

Surtain is old and should be replaced this year. If Vermeil/Peterson had drafted better, Herm/Peterson could've spent a little more time/money/picks helping that offense which was left in shambles.

Now, the 2005 offense:
OL: Roaf, Shields, Waters, Wiegman, Bober/Sampson
RB: LJ, Richardson
TE: Gonzo
WR: Kennison, Parker, Horn, Boerigter
QB: Trent Green

Call me crazy, but trying to replace an injured Pro Bowl QB, 2 hall of fame OLinemen and your entire WR corp while trying to replace a center and also find a permanant RT doesn't happen over a one year or even a two year span while your trying to replace at least 9 starters on a defense that ranked dead last for most of the decade.

Again, perhaps if Vermiel/Peterson hadn't drafted so poorly this decade, there would've been sufficient depth to float the offense this past season. But there wasn't.

14 total draft picks is hardly enough to replace 9 defensive starters and 8 offensive starters. If this organization from Hunt to Herm is committed to building thru the draft, it's going to take more than 2 years. Before the process is complete, i'm sure it will be closer to the 4-5 year side.

The biggest thing you should look at right now though, is the fact that we're probably more than 75% finished rebuilding.

We need at least:
1 CB
2 OL
1 QB
1 WR
1 LB

That's 6 of 22 starting positions that we need to fill. That's not a whole lot. This team isn't THAT far off. At least 5 of those needs should be filled this draft. Out of 10 picks, we should get AT LEAST 5 solid players.

The big glaring problem right now is obviously offense, but the offense will never show improvement without a solid Oline or a stable QB to lead them. Right now, the Chiefs have neither. This draft is kinda going to be like "the Chicken or the egg?" Do we go and get the solid franchise QB to lead to team or do we go get the Olineman he's going to need to be protected?

Either way, the Chiefs aren't going to show much improvement this year without both.

It all comes down to Brodie freakin Croyle.

royalswin100games
04-14-2008, 02:11 PM
Really? You don't see ANY improvement on this team? Are you really THAT blinded by the 4-12 record? We all know the offense sucked which primarily led to that 4-12 record. But we also lost our RB and had horrible QB play to go along with a poor line. They also didn't have a #1 reciever the ENTIRE season.

1. I think Smith did okay filling in last season with our depleted line.

2. You're right, Croyle mad some horrible mistakes even when he had time.

3. I think Bowe did a fine job as a #1 receiver with the other offensive pieces he had around him.

Your Herm hating has blinded you if you think this team AS IS will be 4-12 again next season.

Your attitude toward the coach and the impatience most exude on this site is what is wrong with the modern day NFL fan. People saw what Jimmy Johnson did in 4 years and what John Gruden did in 1 year in Tampa and now if their team isn't in the Super Bowl after 2 years of a coaching change, they're ready for another one. It's just flawed thinking.

When has Herm proved his worth? He may be a good DB coach or scout. Herm is CP's boy. That's why he's here.

When coaches step in and immediately show improvement, it's usually because their predecessor has set them up with a solid roster thru previous drafts.

Now, the Chiefs right now, have the same opportunity to come close to what JJ did in Dallas by trading LJ. JJ brought back 6 picks for Herschell Walker. The Chiefs could bring back at least 3 for Johnson if they decided to trade him. Johnson built that team thru the draft (which is what Herm is doing) but he was able to draft many more players at one time because of the trade.

Do you have some inside info? How are we gonna trade a 29 year old back with a lot of miles? Maybe the Texans will take him.

It's just going to take longer to do a complete rebuild like the one the Chiefs are trying to do now.

The 2005 defense had to be rebuilt.
DL:Allen, Sims, Browning, Dalton, Hicks
LB: DJ, Barber, Mitchell, Bell
DB: Surtain, McCleon, Wesley, Knight

3 starters remain. You POSSIBLY could make a case for keeping Mitchell, but he was never good here and he wasn't good enough to keep his job in NY.

What about Fujita? It seems he's stepped up in New Orleans.

Surtain is old and should be replaced this year. If Vermeil/Peterson had drafted better, Herm/Peterson could've spent a little more time/money/picks helping that offense which was left in shambles.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Now, the 2005 offense:
OL: Roaf, Shields, Waters, Wiegman, Bober/Sampson
RB: LJ, Richardson
TE: Gonzo
WR: Kennison, Parker, Horn, Boerigter
QB: Trent Green

Call me crazy, but trying to replace an injured Pro Bowl QB, 2 hall of fame OLinemen and your entire WR corp while trying to replace a center and also find a permanant RT doesn't happen over a one year or even a two year span while your trying to replace at least 9 starters on a defense that ranked dead last for most of the decade.

Again, perhaps if Vermiel/Peterson hadn't drafted so poorly this decade, there would've been sufficient depth to float the offense this past season. But there wasn't.

You've made it clear in the past that you don't like Vermeil and it's understandable considering the defensive struggles we've had. If you don't like Peterson's decisions, why do you defend Herm? They come and go together.

14 total draft picks is hardly enough to replace 9 defensive starters and 8 offensive starters. If this organization from Hunt to Herm is committed to building thru the draft, it's going to take more than 2 years. Before the process is complete, i'm sure it will be closer to the 4-5 year side.

The biggest thing you should look at right now though, is the fact that we're probably more than 75% finished rebuilding.

We need at least:
1 CB
2 OL
1 QB
1 WR
1 LB

That's 6 of 22 starting positions that we need to fill. That's not a whole lot. This team isn't THAT far off. At least 5 of those needs should be filled this draft. Out of 10 picks, we should get AT LEAST 5 solid players.

The big glaring problem right now is obviously offense, but the offense will never show improvement without a solid Oline or a stable QB to lead them. Right now, the Chiefs have neither. This draft is kinda going to be like "the Chicken or the egg?" Do we go and get the solid franchise QB to lead to team or do we go get the Olineman he's going to need to be protected?

Either way, the Chiefs aren't going to show much improvement this year without both.

It all comes down to Brodie freakin Croyle.

Nice rebuttal. Now if we draft Ryan and he gets knocked around this season, does CP get fired? If he does, your boy Herm will go with him. That's a guarantee.

nigeriannightmare
04-14-2008, 06:48 PM
Really? You don't see ANY improvement on this team? Are you really THAT blinded by the 4-12 record? We all know the offense sucked which primarily led to that 4-12 record. But we also lost our RB and had horrible QB play to go along with a poor line. They also didn't have a #1 reciever the ENTIRE season.

Your Herm hating has blinded you if you think this team AS IS will be 4-12 again next season.

Your attitude toward the coach and the impatience most exude on this site is what is wrong with the modern day NFL fan. People saw what Jimmy Johnson did in 4 years and what John Gruden did in 1 year in Tampa and now if their team isn't in the Super Bowl after 2 years of a coaching change, they're ready for another one. It's just flawed thinking.

When coaches step in and immediately show improvement, it's usually because their predecessor has set them up with a solid roster thru previous drafts.

Now, the Chiefs right now, have the same opportunity to come close to what JJ did in Dallas by trading LJ. JJ brought back 6 picks for Herschell Walker. The Chiefs could bring back at least 3 for Johnson if they decided to trade him. Johnson built that team thru the draft (which is what Herm is doing) but he was able to draft many more players at one time because of the trade.

It's just going to take longer to do a complete rebuild like the one the Chiefs are trying to do now.

The 2005 defense had to be rebuilt.
DL:Allen, Sims, Browning, Dalton, Hicks
LB: DJ, Barber, Mitchell, Bell
DB: Surtain, McCleon, Wesley, Knight

3 starters remain. You POSSIBLY could make a case for keeping Mitchell, but he was never good here and he wasn't good enough to keep his job in NY.

Surtain is old and should be replaced this year. If Vermeil/Peterson had drafted better, Herm/Peterson could've spent a little more time/money/picks helping that offense which was left in shambles.

Now, the 2005 offense:
OL: Roaf, Shields, Waters, Wiegman, Bober/Sampson
RB: LJ, Richardson
TE: Gonzo
WR: Kennison, Parker, Horn, Boerigter
QB: Trent Green

Call me crazy, but trying to replace an injured Pro Bowl QB, 2 hall of fame OLinemen and your entire WR corp while trying to replace a center and also find a permanant RT doesn't happen over a one year or even a two year span while your trying to replace at least 9 starters on a defense that ranked dead last for most of the decade.

Again, perhaps if Vermiel/Peterson hadn't drafted so poorly this decade, there would've been sufficient depth to float the offense this past season. But there wasn't.

14 total draft picks is hardly enough to replace 9 defensive starters and 8 offensive starters. If this organization from Hunt to Herm is committed to building thru the draft, it's going to take more than 2 years. Before the process is complete, i'm sure it will be closer to the 4-5 year side.

The biggest thing you should look at right now though, is the fact that we're probably more than 75% finished rebuilding.

We need at least:
1 CB
2 OL
1 QB
1 WR
1 LB

That's 6 of 22 starting positions that we need to fill. That's not a whole lot. This team isn't THAT far off. At least 5 of those needs should be filled this draft. Out of 10 picks, we should get AT LEAST 5 solid players.

The big glaring problem right now is obviously offense, but the offense will never show improvement without a solid Oline or a stable QB to lead them. Right now, the Chiefs have neither. This draft is kinda going to be like "the Chicken or the egg?" Do we go and get the solid franchise QB to lead to team or do we go get the Olineman he's going to need to be protected?

Either way, the Chiefs aren't going to show much improvement this year without both.

It all comes down to Brodie freakin Croyle.


Haven't been here for a while, but try to keep up with what's going on? I really don't think it matters what we do with the draft so long as Herm freaking Edwards is here. Dude if you think that Herm is going to win this team a championship you are blind. He's a .500 coach, that may win us a couple playoff games and that's it period, until he proves me wrong I ain't buying into Herm's philosophy. This is the show me state bro, so show me some results. We may only be a few pieces away from a championship team, but Herm isn't taking us any farther than we have already been in the last decade. Give me one statistic that shows that Herm is capable, just one.

Canada
04-14-2008, 06:51 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/14/sports/football/14anderson.html

hermhater
04-14-2008, 06:57 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/14/sports/football/14anderson.html



If the Jets get past the Steelers tomorrow and go to either New England or Indianapolis next weekend in a chartered jet, Herman Edwards will be sitting in the last row.


They lost.

Canada
04-14-2008, 06:58 PM
They lost.

Was that the first round ??


Reading is fundamental HH :bananen_smilies046:

hermhater
04-14-2008, 07:00 PM
Was that the first round ??


Reading is fundamental HH :bananen_smilies046:


Who said anything about the 1st round?

:sign0153: :bananen_smilies046:

Canada
04-14-2008, 07:03 PM
Herm isn't taking us any farther than we have already been in the last decade. Give me one statistic that shows that Herm is capable, just one.

He won a playoff game in the last decade!

hermhater
04-14-2008, 07:08 PM
He won a playoff game in the last decade!

Against Peyton Manning?

Canada
04-14-2008, 07:09 PM
Against Peyton Manning?

that was not the question. Do I need to quote it again for you?:sign0104:

hermhater
04-14-2008, 07:11 PM
that was not the question. Do I need to quote it again for you?:sign0104:

Granted wining a playoff game in the last decade is more than we've done, but he still won't get us a championship.

Personally I don't think we will get back to the playoffs while he's here though.

chief31
04-14-2008, 10:08 PM
Really? You don't see ANY improvement on this team?

Kinda like losing a thousand dollars, but rejoicing because you recovered half of it. No, I don't see that as improvement. Because you are still down five-hundred.

Are you really THAT blinded by the 4-12 record? We all know the offense sucked which primarily led to that 4-12 record. But we also lost our RB and had horrible QB play to go along with a poor line. They also didn't have a #1 reciever the ENTIRE season.

Horrible o-line, no running game, poor offensive coordinator, and no no.1 WR, but go ahead and tell us how the QB should have done better with that.

Your Herm hating has blinded you if you think this team AS IS will be 4-12 again next season.

No chance. AS-IS, this team would likely get us an even better draft pick next season. You thought the o-line was bad last year, AS-IS we are down three of the better ones from that squad.

Your attitude toward the coach and the impatience most exude on this site is what is wrong with the modern day NFL fan. People saw what Jimmy Johnson did in 4 years and what John Gruden did in 1 year in Tampa and now if their team isn't in the Super Bowl after 2 years of a coaching change, they're ready for another one. It's just flawed thinking.

Like blindly supporting a proven loser? Somehow, you seem unable to blame Herm for his career of losing. Making excuses for every poor detail of his career, while shouting-out every positive. Where's the flawed thinking?

When coaches step in and immediately show improvement, it's usually because their predecessor has set them up with a solid roster thru previous drafts. (Unless it is Herm taking over. Then it just pure genious coaching.)

Now, the Chiefs right now, have the same opportunity to come close to what JJ did in Dallas by trading LJ. JJ brought back 6 picks for Herschell Walker. The Chiefs could bring back at least 3 for Johnson if they decided to trade him.(Good luck.) Johnson built that team thru the draft (which is what Herm is doing) but he was able to draft many more players at one time because of the trade.

It's just going to take longer to do a complete rebuild like the one the Chiefs are trying to do now.

The 2005 defense had to be rebuilt.
DL:Allen, Sims, Browning, Dalton, Hicks
LB: DJ, Barber, Mitchell, Bell
DB: Surtain, McCleon, Wesley, Knight

3 starters remain. You POSSIBLY could make a case for keeping Mitchell, but he was never good here and he wasn't good enough to keep his job in NY.

The man opted for another team in free-agency, and somehow you get to spin in your favor by saying he wasn't good enough. Lol. Amazing. He was plenty good here too. But it is difficult to shine with an otherwise poor defense.

Surtain is old and should be replaced this year. If Vermeil/Peterson had drafted better, Herm/Peterson could've spent a little more time/money/picks helping that offense which was left in shambles.

Now, the 2005 offense:
OL: Roaf, Shields, Waters, Wiegman, Bober/Sampson
RB: LJ, Richardson
TE: Gonzo
WR: Kennison, Parker, Horn, Boerigter
QB: Trent Green

Call me crazy, but trying to replace an injured Pro Bowl QB, 2 hall of fame OLinemen and your entire WR corp while trying to replace a center and also find a permanant RT doesn't happen over a one year or even a two year span while your trying to replace at least 9 starters on a defense that ranked dead last for most of the decade.



Again, perhaps if Vermiel/Peterson hadn't drafted so poorly this decade, there would've been sufficient depth to float the offense this past season. But there wasn't.

14 total draft picks is hardly enough to replace 9 defensive starters and 8 offensive starters. If this organization from Hunt to Herm is committed to building thru the draft, it's going to take more than 2 years. Before the process is complete, i'm sure it will be closer to the 4-5 year side.

The biggest thing you should look at right now though, is the fact that we're probably more than 75% finished rebuilding. Really? Show me.

We need at least:
1 CB
2 OL
1 QB
1 WR
1 LB

That's 6 of 22 starting positions that we need to fill. That's AT LEAST MORE THAN 25%. But let's not forget that Herm emptied our K, and KR spots too. That's not a whole lot. This team isn't THAT far off. At least 5 of those needs should be filled this draft. Out of 10 picks, we should get AT LEAST 5 solid players.

The big glaring problem right now is obviously offense, but the offense will never show improvement without a solid Oline or a stable QB to lead them. Right now, the Chiefs have neither. Oh, here it is. I just knew you were going to show what a terrible situation our QB had, then rag on him later. This draft is kinda going to be like "the Chicken or the egg?" Do we go and get the solid franchise QB to lead to team or do we go get the Olineman he's going to need to be protected?

Either way, the Chiefs aren't going to show much improvement this year without both.

It all comes down to Brodie freakin Croyle.

How about giving the man something to work with, before judging? Anything! An o-line, an experienced no.1 WR, a running game, an O-coordinator? Something.

Albeit, I really don't expect that Croyle will be the end-all, be-all to the Chiefs' QB situation, but I haven't seen him play in an NFL offense to know.

Most folks wanted him in last season, to give him a chance, but I was hoping that he wouldn't get much of a "chance" last season, because I knew that that wasn't really an opportunity, playing in that offense.

Chiefster
04-14-2008, 10:31 PM
How about giving the man something to work with, before judging? Anything! An o-line, an experienced no.1 WR, a running game, an O-coordinator? Something.

Albeit, I really don't expect that Croyle will be the end-all, be-all to the Chiefs' QB situation, but I haven't seen him play in an NFL offense to know.

Most folks wanted him in last season, to give him a chance, but I was hoping that he wouldn't get much of a "chance" last season, because I knew that that wasn't really an opportunity, playing in that offense.

Eggsactly!

Excellent point!

texaschief
04-16-2008, 03:49 PM
I know there are a bunch of ppl on this site who don't like this guy, but this is the best 1st-4th round mock i've seen on the Chiefs yet this year. I don't like any of his picks after round 4, but i like 1-4 A LOT!!


By: Nick Athan
Round #1 (7th Pick from New England)

CB Leodis McKelvin (Troy) - After making a trade with the New England Patriots the Chiefs slide down two spots and pick up the Patriotsí second third-round pick (#94). With this selection, Kansas City selects Troy cornerback Leodis McKelvin. Heís the best cornerback in this draft and defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham will be doing the happy dance.

The Chiefs need a shut down corner and with Patrick Surtain destined to become an expensive nickel back this year, Gunther Cunningham will secure one half of his dream to find two starters in this yearís draft.

Round #1 (22nd Pick from Dallas)

CB Aqib Talib (Kansas) Ė After trading their second round pick (#35), New Englandís third-round pick (#94) and a 2009 fourth-round pick, Gunther Cunningham is on cloud nine as the Chiefs take the Kansas cornerback. Talibís stock has fallen after recent news about a drug test he refused to take two years ago, but itís never been any great secret. Talib becomes the second starting cornerback and the Chiefs have two potential lock down corners.

Round #2 (34th Pick)

OT Anthony Collins (Kansas) Ė The Chiefs wheeling and dealing continues. In a shocker, Kansas City trades Jared Allen to Atlanta for the Falconsí three second-round picks (#34, #37 and #48). Allen gets his wish and becomes the highest-paid defensive end in the league while Collins, who some scouts believe will be the best left tackle to come out of this draft, needs a year of seasoning but is well worth the pick.

Round #2 (37th Pick from Atlanta)

OT Sam Baker (USC) ĖAfter taking Collins to play the left side, the Chiefs come right back and grab Baker, whose stock has been rising. Heíll start the 2008 season as the Chiefs starting right tackle.

Round #2 (48th Pick from Atlanta)

DE Quentin Groves (Auburn) Ė With Allen becoming a dirty bird, the Chiefs must fill a void on the defensive line. They land one of the premier college pass rushers to take Allenís place. Groves is quick, strong and knows how to get to the quarterback. Heíll begin the season opposite Tamba Hali.

Round #3 (66th Pick)

C Mike Pollak (Arizona State) Ė There is a lot of talk about taking Kansas State wide receiver Jordy Nelson, but the sentiment is that Pollack is NFL ready and can start come opening day. Pollack fills the bill for the Chiefs who will open the season with Collins at left tackle, Brian Waters at left guard, Pollack at center, Damion McIntosh at right guard and Baker at right tackle. Works for me.

Round #4 (105th Pick)

WR Dexter Jackson (Appalachian State) Ė He broke the 4.4 barrier at the NFL combine and can flat out get down the field. Heís not at as physical as Nelson, but is the best receiver on the board at this point. He gives KCís offense an element of true game-breaking speed. Some might compare him to Samie Parker, but he has much better hands.

Round #5 (136th Pick from Miami)

FB Owen Schmitt (West Virginia) Ė With Boomer Grigsby departing for Miami and Allen traded to the Falcons, the Chiefs need a crazy country boy. Schmitt is a masher who will hit anything in sight.

Round #5 (140th Pick)

TE Martin Rucker (Missouri) Ė His stock has fallen because most teams feel he canít block at the NFL level. But there isnít any question he can catch the ball. With Tony Gonzalez already hinting he might play only two or three more seasons, Rucker will have plenty of time to learn the game and develop into a solid if not spectacular tight end someday.

Round #6 (170th Pick)

DT Red Bryant (Texas A&M) Ė This fills another need for the Chiefs. With Tank Tyler on his way to becoming a full time starter, Gunther Cunningham needs another rotational player. Bryant could be much more than that. For some reason his stock is falling and Kansas City, who has found some gems on day two in the past, finds a player who might start in 2009.

Round #6 (187th Pick from Tampa Bay)

G Christopher McDuffie (Clemson) Ė He fits the mold of the big, strong interior offensive lineman that the Chiefs want to develop under Chan Gailey. McDufee is a project of sorts, but Kansas City has the luxury of giving him plenty of time to learn the position at the NFL level.

Round #7 (210th Pick)

WR Marcus Henry (Kansas) Ė Iím favoring my alma mater, but believe me when I tell you that Henry will be starting for the Chiefs by 2010, if not sooner. All he needs is a tutor like Chiefs wide receivers coach Eric Price and Henry will become something special. Iíve talked to numerous NFL scouts about Henry and they all tell me he has what it takes to make it in the big league. But he needs to land on the right team.

Round #7 (239th Pick from NY Giants)

RB Justin Forsett (California) Ė He might be small, but that matters little when youíre taking a flyer on someone in the seventh round. Forsett could be a candidate to be KCís return man. He can also catch th

hermhater
04-16-2008, 04:14 PM
We will not trade Allen to Atlanta.

:mob: