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YZILLA
04-18-2008, 04:42 AM
This post has been edited because Warpaint got upset about the article being shared.



Jared Allen was visiting with the Minnesota Vikings this past weekend to seek a possible trade. The speculation was that the Vikings were offering a 1st and 2nd draft pick in exchange for Jared Allen. The Chiefs were obviously looking for more considering the deal did not get done. Jared is now rumored to be visiting with the Tampa Bay to seek a long term deal. Jared has vowed to not play another game for the Kansas City Chiefs.

Guru
04-18-2008, 04:51 AM
I don't know. I would stick to just the 1st and 2nd this year. Why give them great draft position next year.

YZILLA
04-18-2008, 05:01 AM
I hope if jared is gone we stick it to whoever gets him , and come out of this with some really good picks. It could totally change our draft selection at #1

Guru
04-18-2008, 05:17 AM
That would be exceptionally nice.

chief31
04-18-2008, 06:59 AM
Whatever we have to do to get rid of "Dickies guys". I think that that is what this is all about. We don't want a team of "Chiefs", we want a team of Herm-guys.

Guru
04-18-2008, 07:21 AM
Herm - we are not going to change a thing - Edwards

wolfpack
04-18-2008, 09:40 AM
this years picks from the vikes wouldbe great but swap next years picks? why would we want to trade the number 1 or second pick of the draft next year for a midrounder. the way this off-season is going so far our 2-14 to 4-12 season sould get us a high draft choice again.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 01:42 PM
this years picks from the vikes wouldbe great but swap next years picks? why would we want to trade the number 1 or second pick of the draft next year for a midrounder. the way this off-season is going so far our 2-14 to 4-12 season sould get us a high draft choice again.

Because we slapped the Franchise tag on Allen, I think it is required that we get 2 first round picks if we trade him.

If that means we have to get their 1st round pick in exchange for our 1st round pick that is just absurd.

They will have a better record with Jared and that means a lower pick in the draft.

That is a ridiculous scenario that hurts us.

This is all turning into a gigantic fiasco.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 02:55 PM
I'd take the Viking's first 3 picks this year and their first pick next year but i think we'd have to throw in a 09 2nd rounder in order to keep our 09 first rounder and not have to swap first rounders.

This could turn out to be an absolutely amazing draft for the Chiefs. Could you imagine if we were able to draft out of our #5 pick as well? We could grab another 2nd and 3rd rounder depending where we go.

Let's say we trade down to 8 with Baltimore. We pick up Albert at 8, then Otah at 17, Lawrence Jackson at 35, Justin King at 38, Malcom Kelly at 47, Oniel Cousins at 66, Jeremy Zuttah at 73

Then we pick up Baltimore's 4th and 5th rounders because they don't have a 3rd this season.

It could be amazing to possibly have 7 or 8 picks in the top 3 rounds!!!

hermhater
04-18-2008, 03:02 PM
I am excited about the draft this year, possibly more so than ever before.

I can't wait!!!!

:yahoo:

bigpoppachief
04-18-2008, 03:09 PM
Why dont we throw in LJ and get AP and first and second round picks ? :D LOL seriosuly though if we swap picks that deal would be retarded ! They want a swap pick in 09 ? We swap 2 rounders maybe but lets face it we are going to have a high pick next years draft as well ! Vikes want JA they better pay !!!

texaschief
04-18-2008, 03:11 PM
I am excited about the draft this year, possibly more so than ever before.

I can't wait!!!!

:yahoo:

This is the kind of draft that you should have a draft party. The Chiefs will be drafting A LOT!!

hermhater
04-18-2008, 03:18 PM
Why dont we throw in LJ and get AP and first and second round picks ? :D LOL seriosuly though if we swap picks that deal would be retarded ! They want a swap pick in 09 ? We swap 2 rounders maybe but lets face it we are going to have a high pick next years draft as well ! Vikes want JA they better pay !!!

I'm still waiting to hear if we get 2 guaranteed first rounders for him.

I don't like that swapping 1st round picks with them either that is retarded because I believe Jared will be responsible for at least 2 wins for the Vikes moving them lower in the round.


This is the kind of draft that you should have a draft party. The Chiefs will be drafting A LOT!!

The party is at Arrowhead, $14 in advance, or $18 at the door!

:yahoo:

texaschief
04-18-2008, 03:34 PM
I'm still waiting to hear if we get 2 guaranteed first rounders for him.

I don't like that swapping 1st round picks with them either that is retarded because I believe Jared will be responsible for at least 2 wins for the Vikes moving them lower in the round.



The party is at Arrowhead, $14 in advance, or $18 at the door!

:yahoo:

oh yes. let me make THAT trip to arrowhead to spend 24 hours watching a non sporting event and listen to everyone ***** no matter who we draft....please...sign me up.

I've already answered your draft picks question like 3 times.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 03:45 PM
oh yes. let me make THAT trip to arrowhead to spend 24 hours watching a non sporting event and listen to everyone ***** no matter who we draft....please...sign me up.

I've already answered your draft picks question like 3 times.

Thanks!

:sign0098:

mcrow
04-18-2008, 03:53 PM
I'm a Vikings fan I just thought I'd drop in and give you our POV on this trade.

First 99% of all Vikings fans want this done now at almost any cost. Most of us feel that the Vikings are a stud DE & consistant QB away from winning the NFC. This should certainly fix one of those problems if it happens.

As far as the # of picks and rounds:

It's highly unlikely they'll give up 2 first rounders
a 1st & a 2nd is more probable
a 1st & a 3rd is the most likely trade. They might give up a 1st this year and a 2nd next year but I highly doubt they will give up both this year.

Yes, this doesn't sound like much for a guy who might be the best DE in the league but the Chiefs are not in much of position to bargain. There are only about 3 teams that have the cap room to pull off something like this. One of them only has 5 draft picks this year, another would have to do some drastic contract restructuring in order to make the cap work. That leaves the Vikings with plenty of cap room and 9 draft picks to deal with. Add to that Allen's off the field problems and the fact that he'll leave on his own if they don't trade him and the Chiefs are in sort of a bad spot.

I compare it to the Johan Santana trade, we sign him or have to take what people will give us in trade and more than likely get the short end of it.

The Chiefs were my second team growing up, I loved watching Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas,Christian Okoye and the like. It really seems odd to me that KC would actually trade a stud DE in his prime.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 04:01 PM
Allen won't be allowed to leave next year.

I could almost guarantee it's going to take more than a first and 3rd to grab him from the Chiefs. I think the article was right. The Vikes don't want to see Allen leave Minnesota and visit Tampa. If there were a team with a slight trading position, it would be Minnesota. I agree, the Vikes DO need to to wow the Chiefs if they expect Allen not to leave this weekend.

If Minnesota thinks they're only a DE away from a title, they need to do whatever it takes...even if that means trading all their first 5 round draft picks and a couple next year if necessary.

bigpoppachief
04-18-2008, 04:01 PM
AT LEAST a 1 and 2 rounder will be asked for. If not we should just trade Allen for a OT or something.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:02 PM
I'm a Vikings fan I just thought I'd drop in and give you our POV on this trade.

First 99% of all Vikings fans want this done now at almost any cost. Most of us feel that the Vikings are a stud DE & consistant QB away from winning the NFC. This should certainly fix one of those problems if it happens.

As far as the # of picks and rounds:

It's highly unlikely they'll give up 2 first rounders
a 1st & a 2nd is more probable
a 1st & a 3rd is the most likely trade. They might give up a 1st this year and a 2nd next year but I highly doubt they will give up both this year.

Yes, this doesn't sound like much for a guy who might be the best DE in the league but the Chiefs are not in much of position to bargain. There are only about 3 teams that have the cap room to pull off something like this. One of them only has 5 draft picks this year, another would have to do some drastic contract restructuring in order to make the cap work. That leaves the Vikings with plenty of cap room and 9 draft picks to deal with. Add to that Allen's off the field problems and the fact that he'll leave on his own if they don't trade him and the Chiefs are in sort of a bad spot.

I compare it to the Johan Santana trade, we sign him or have to take what people will give us in trade and more than likely get the short end of it.

The Chiefs were my second team growing up, I loved watching Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas,Christian Okoye and the like. It really seems odd to me that KC would actually trade a stud DE in his prime.

Nice to have you on the board mcrow.

Good POV, and I kind of see your point, but while Jared is up there this weekend Childress will find out that he has changed his ways.

He doesn't want to be associated with the party scene any more, doesn't drink, and has been studying tape of Derrick Thomas to help improve his game.

As for the comment I emboldened above, you should know better if you used to be a Chiefs fan guy.

Carl wouldn't sign him to a long term contract, so this is the situation we find ourselves in.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:12 PM
As for the comment I emboldened above, you should know better if you used to be a Chiefs fan guy.

Carl wouldn't sign him to a long term contract, so this is the situation we find ourselves in.

Well, I know what you mean but I was just thinking back and I almost alway remember KC having a kickass passrusher.

Good passrushing just seems like it should be KC's sig.

jakesmith
04-18-2008, 04:13 PM
One problem is if Vikes give all that draft position. They are good for only a few more years. They would be in a very similar situation the Chiefs are now in.

The Chiefs in the not so distant past gave up a lot of picks to get veteran players. They hoped to build a Super Bowl team with players that had already proven themselves. They didnt develop much young talent and relyed on free agents. Thats why the O-line is so bad now. (Yeah we all know this, cause its been said lots of time.) But if the vikings give up their draft picks they wont have to the ability in the next couple years in developing talent. This would force them to go after free agents. This can work or it might not.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:19 PM
Well, I know what you mean but I was just thinking back and I almost alway remember KC having a kickass passrusher.

Good passrushing just seems like it should be KC's sig.

Agreed.


One problem is if Vikes give all that draft position. They are good for only a few more years. They would be in a very similar situation the Chiefs are now in.

The Chiefs in the not so distant past gave up a lot of picks to get veteran players. They hoped to build a Super Bowl team with players that had already proven themselves. They didnt develop much young talent and relyed on free agents. Thats why the O-line is so bad now. (Yeah we all know this, cause its been said lots of time.) But if the vikings give up their draft picks they wont have to the ability in the next couple years in developing talent. This would force them to go after free agents. This can work or it might not.

Yeah but they're getting Jared before he is even hitting his prime.

He has at least 8 years left in him.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:25 PM
One problem is if Vikes give all that draft position. They are good for only a few more years. They would be in a very similar situation the Chiefs are now in.

The Chiefs in the not so distant past gave up a lot of picks to get veteran players. They hoped to build a Super Bowl team with players that had already proven themselves. They didnt develop much young talent and relyed on free agents. Thats why the O-line is so bad now. (Yeah we all know this, cause its been said lots of time.) But if the vikings give up their draft picks they wont have to the ability in the next couple years in developing talent. This would force them to go after free agents. This can work or it might not.

Our defense has some Vets that will be needing replacing in the next couple season: Sharper, Winfield, maybe Pat Williams. Our offense has some older guys: Birk & Hutchinson, though Hutch still should good for quite a while. Birk is nearing retirement.

So basically we need a saftey & center sometime in the next couple years and then a DT & Corner at some point after that. If we gave up two picks, we will still be fine. Even if we give up a 1st & a 2nd we have two 3rd rounders left + 5 more picks this season.

Plus we'd have all of our picks next season. Luckily, the positions we will need to reload on are ones that you can get good players in the later rounds. OTOH, if we really needed a RB or QB (which many think we do, in fact need a QB) it would be much more difficult.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:30 PM
Our defense has some Vets that will be needing replacing in the next couple season: Sharper, Winfield, maybe Pat Williams. Our offense has some older guys: Birk & Hutchinson, though Hutch still should good for quite a while. Birk is nearing retirement.

So basically we need a saftey & center sometime in the next couple years and then a DT & Corner at some point after that. If we gave up two picks, we will still be fine. Even if we give up a 1st & a 2nd we have two 3rd rounders left + 5 more picks this season.

Plus we'd have all of our picks next season. Luckily, the positions we will need to reload on are ones that you can get good players in the later rounds. OTOH, if we really needed a RB or QB (which many think we do, in fact need a QB) it would be much more difficult.

Do you guys have any starting O linemen to go with that 1st and 2nd rounder?

If we don't make you guys give us the 2 first round picks, then I have to assume texaschief is right and we will ask for personnel from you guys as well.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 04:31 PM
One problem is if Vikes give all that draft position. They are good for only a few more years. They would be in a very similar situation the Chiefs are now in.

The Chiefs in the not so distant past gave up a lot of picks to get veteran players. They hoped to build a Super Bowl team with players that had already proven themselves. They didnt develop much young talent and relyed on free agents. Thats why the O-line is so bad now. (Yeah we all know this, cause its been said lots of time.) But if the vikings give up their draft picks they wont have to the ability in the next couple years in developing talent. This would force them to go after free agents. This can work or it might not.

True. But it's not that big a deal to lose an entire draft or even two and still be able to be competitive in the long run. The problem the Chiefs had was that while they were great early in this decade, they were drafting horribly. The Chiefs didn't lose just one draft. They lost every draft class that Cunningham and Vermeil were the Head Coaches.

We only have 4 players who are still one this team (including JA) out of the 59 draft picks since 1998. THAT'S why the Chiefs didn't have any talent to replace their O-line and why they didn't have a defense until Herm showed up.

Losing only one draft wouldn't hurt the Vikings too badly at this point. Most on that team are pretty young.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:31 PM
Do you guys have any starting O linemen to go with that 1st and 2nd rounder?

If we don't make you guys give us the 2 first round picks, then I have to assume texaschief is right and we will ask for personnel from you guys as well.

Only McKinnie would be considered tradebait but he has some legal issues of his own.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 04:35 PM
mmm...29 and legal issues...pass

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:37 PM
True. But it's not that big a deal to lose an entire draft or even two and still be able to be competitive in the long run. The problem the Chiefs had was that while they were great early in this decade, they were drafting horribly. The Chiefs didn't lose just one draft. They lost every draft class that Cunningham and Vermeil were the Head Coaches.

We only have 4 players who are still one this team (including JA) out of the 59 draft picks since 1998. THAT'S why the Chiefs didn't have any talent to replace their O-line and why they didn't have a defense until Herm showed up.

Losing only one draft wouldn't hurt the Vikings too badly at this point. Most on that team are pretty young.

That is unfair to say there are only 4 players on the team from those we drafted in those years.

We are getting rid of starters left and right.

I know you don't like Mitchell but he was part of that awesome defense you love of the Giants, yet you still say he wasn't good enough.

Your bias is showing.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:38 PM
True. But it's not that big a deal to lose an entire draft or even two and still be able to be competitive in the long run. The problem the Chiefs had was that while they were great early in this decade, they were drafting horribly. The Chiefs didn't lose just one draft. They lost every draft class that Cunningham and Vermeil were the Head Coaches.

We only have 4 players who are still one this team (including JA) out of the 59 draft picks since 1998. THAT'S why the Chiefs didn't have any talent to replace their O-line and why they didn't have a defense until Herm showed up.

Losing only one draft wouldn't hurt the Vikings too badly at this point. Most on that team are pretty young.

If the Chiefs get a 1st & 2nd out of the Vikings and they draft well, you guys should be up on your feet again in a couple years.

OMFG, you guys would have a ton of picks over the next two drafts:

1st: 3
2nd: 3
3rd: 2
4th: 2
5th: 3
6th: 3
7th: 3

that's a total of 19 picks!

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:38 PM
Only McKinnie would be considered tradebait but he has some legal issues of his own.

I'm surprised Childress is keeping him around with the legal issues, I thought he was done with all that?

Also what sort of legal issues?

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:39 PM
mmm...29 and legal issues...pass
Not to mention that he can play like a probowler one game and a JV scrub the next. Heck, if you guys want him I'll drive him over this afternoon.:bananen_smilies046:

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm surprised Childress is keeping him around with the legal issues, I thought he was done with all that?

Also what sort of legal issues?

apparently he got drunk at a club in florida and beat a bouncer with a pole until he was knocked out. Chances are he'll get off easy given this was his first offense (I think) but he could actually go to jail for upto 18 months.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 04:43 PM
That is unfair to say there are only 4 players on the team from those we drafted in those years.

We are getting rid of starters left and right.

I know you don't like Mitchell but he was part of that awesome defense you love of the Giants, yet you still say he wasn't good enough.

You're bias is showing.

I NEVER liked Mitchell. Who did we draft that started for us? Mitchell? Fujita? Sims? Warfield?

There's no bias...we didn't draft anyone of value...ever. You need to let this "Mitchell" thing go, dude. He really isn't THAT good.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Not to mention that he can play like a probowler one game and a JV scrub the next. Heck, if you guys want him I'll drive him over this afternoon.:bananen_smilies046:

Exactly. There's no doubt that the guy is talented. He just seems to be the "Pacman" of the O-line. :lol:

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Not to mention that he can play like a probowler one game and a JV scrub the next. Heck, if you guys want him I'll drive him over this afternoon.:bananen_smilies046:

Forget it then.

I sure hope we negotiate this right guy.

No offense to your team, but Jared is a stud and we need to make sure we screw you guys for taking him!

:lol:

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:48 PM
Forget it then.

I sure hope we negotiate this right guy.

No offense to your team, but Jared is a stud and we need to make sure we screw you guys for taking him!

:lol:

Well, then it's a big screwfest because you know the Vikings are doing their best to get an unfair deal. :D

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:50 PM
Well, then it's a big screwfest because you know the Vikings are doing their best to get an unfair deal. :D

If you have any inside info, or hear anything localy be sure to keep us posted.

Also when is he getting in town and gonna take his physical and get assessed?

texaschief
04-18-2008, 04:52 PM
If you have any inside info, or hear anything localy be sure to keep us posted.

Also when is he getting in town and gonna take his physical and get assessed?

He's there right now.

Dyno-Mite
04-18-2008, 04:52 PM
I'd simply like the idea and direction that Herm is considering while rebuilding with many young players.I still do see a 3-way trade occuring within this years draft.I mention that because we have too many draft selections.It's great building a young Chiefs team but I can only wonder when in the hell are we going to make that high priced free agency signing.I'd believe that we will trade off with a certain team for a veteran elite team leader(maybe at the WR position)(Chad Johnson)because we are truly in need of a wide receiver.The trade off pick for Dante Hall to the Rams was huge because that also adds tremendous depth to our upcoming draft.This years draft simply has to belong to the Chiefs.Expect to hear a big trade announcement shocker involving Ocho Cinco.I've heard rumors on it.:yes:

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:54 PM
As a side note:

Brad Childress was just on the local radio here @ about noon talking about Jared Allen. HE NEVER, EVER TALKS ON THE RADIO!

Sounds like he is very confident that the deal will be done and mentioned that they are in negotiations with Allen's agent.

Then he made a joke that Jared was in getting his "electronic rectal exam as we speaK". So it sounds like they are as far as doing the physical already.:sterb020:

texaschief
04-18-2008, 04:55 PM
I'd simply like the idea and direction that Herm is considering while rebuilding with many young players.I still do see a 3-way trade occuring within this years draft.I mention that because we have too many draft selections.It's great building a young Chiefs team but I can only wonder when in the hell are we going to make that high priced free agency signing.I'd believe that we will trade off with a certain team for a veteran elite team leader(maybe at the WR position)(Chad Johnson)because we are truly in need of a wide receiver.The trade off pick for Dante Hall to the Rams was huge because that also adds tremendous depth to our upcoming draft.This years draft simply has to belong to the Chiefs.Expect to hear a big trade announcement shocker involving Ocho Cinco.I've heard rumors on it.:yes:

Chiefs won't make big free agent signing until they've established their core group of guys thru this draft and possibly next year's draft.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 04:59 PM
Mike Florio, from profootballtalk.com, was on the radio earlier and he said that the trade will likely take until next week to get finalized but was almost certain it would happen.

You can check out the article he just posted here. (http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/)

hermhater
04-18-2008, 04:59 PM
As a side note:

Brad Childress was just on the local radio here @ about noon talking about Jared Allen. HE NEVER, EVER TALKS ON THE RADIO!

Sounds like he is very confident that the deal will be done and mentioned that they are in negotiations with Allen's agent.

Then he made a joke that Jared was in getting his "electronic rectal exam as we speaK". So it sounds like they are as far as doing the physical already.:sterb020:

:lol:

I can't wait to hear what the out come is.

I think NFL Live is about to start, let's see if they lead off with this topic.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 05:11 PM
BTW, if you want you can listen to our local sports radio station online @ www.kfan.com (http://www.kfan.com) .

They've been talking about it on and off all day and have had several local and national media sources on today.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:15 PM
BTW, if you want you can listen to our local sports radio station online @ www.kfan.com (http://www.kfan.com) .

They've been talking about it on and off all day and have had several local and national media sources on today.

Thanks guy, some guy is talking about his history.

Childress has already decided that he's changed his ways, I would imagine.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:15 PM
They just brought up Mikennie as a straight trade.

:lol:

texaschief
04-18-2008, 05:16 PM
They just brought up Mikennie as a straight trade.

:lol:

:sign0153: you've got to be ****ting me

mcrow
04-18-2008, 05:19 PM
:sign0153: you've got to be ****ting me

That guy (Charch) is a tool, list to Jud he's the one with inside info.

There is no way they get Allen for McKinnie straight up. They might do it for a 1st, 3rd, and McKinnie.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:19 PM
:sign0153: you've got to be ****ting me

Not the Vikings, the radio announcer, who ever the hell that guy is.

He said you take a guy with bad history and trade him equally for another guy with bad history, give them a fresh start in a new city.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:21 PM
Who was that guy they were talking to?

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 05:23 PM
I'd simply like the idea and direction that Herm is considering while rebuilding with many young players.I still do see a 3-way trade occuring within this years draft.I mention that because we have too many draft selections.It's great building a young Chiefs team but I can only wonder when in the hell are we going to make that high priced free agency signing.I'd believe that we will trade off with a certain team for a veteran elite team leader(maybe at the WR position)(Chad Johnson)because we are truly in need of a wide receiver.The trade off pick for Dante Hall to the Rams was huge because that also adds tremendous depth to our upcoming draft.This years draft simply has to belong to the Chiefs.Expect to hear a big trade announcement shocker involving Ocho Cinco.I've heard rumors on it.:yes:

...did you just call Chad Johnson a "LEADER"...seriously, he's an incredible talent, and he stays out of trouble off the field, but he is far from a team leader. He's more of the locker room clown.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 05:25 PM
Who was that guy they were talking to?

Jud Zulgad of the Startribune newspaper.

He's the best local Vikings insider.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:25 PM
Why are they playing "Superstitious"?

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:26 PM
The Raiders????

Are these guys nuts?

We would never trade Allen to the Raiders.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 05:28 PM
Let's trade him to the Falcons for their 1st rounder and 2 of their 3 2nd rounders.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:29 PM
Let's trade him to the Falcons for their 1st rounder and 2 of their 3 2nd rounders.

Do they even want him?

mcrow
04-18-2008, 05:29 PM
The Raiders????

Are these guys nuts?

We would never trade Allen to the Raiders.

I don't think they were serious, just saying "why not check out other places".

texaschief
04-18-2008, 05:30 PM
Do they even want him?

They just lost Kerney...hell yeah they want him.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:31 PM
I don't think they were serious, just saying "why not check out other places".

Well they couldn't have picked a worse example.

You guys sound like you're gonna throw him a welcoming party on Sunday.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:31 PM
They just lost Kerney...hell yeah they want him.

That would be awesome then.

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 05:33 PM
That guy (Charch) is a tool, list to Jud he's the one with inside info.

There is no way they get Allen for McKinnie straight up. They might do it for a 1st, 3rd, and McKinnie.

1st, 3rd and McKinnie...hmmm.

That actually would be a good trade for both teams. The Vikings could then use their 2nd rounder for either a WR like Deshawn Jackson (who has hands and speed) to spread the field for AP, or get some help for their secondary. The Chiefs would instantly fill 1 spot on their anemic O-line and also get the #17 to grab an O-lineman, freeing them to use the #5 for a DT/DE (or the best grab if they could trade down 3-5 spots would be Keith Rivers, LB)

mcrow
04-18-2008, 05:35 PM
Well they couldn't have picked a worse example.

You guys sound like you're gonna throw him a welcoming party on Sunday.

Party? An damn parade!

Seriously, we have not had any local sports trade a superstar type of player in his prime, ever. So, yea, we're jazzed.:D

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:44 PM
1st, 3rd and McKinnie...hmmm.

That actually would be a good trade for both teams. The Vikings could then use their 2nd rounder for either a WR like Deshawn Jackson (who has hands and speed) to spread the field for AP, or get some help for their secondary. The Chiefs would instantly fill 1 spot on their anemic O-line and also get the #17 to grab an O-lineman, freeing them to use the #5 for a DT/DE (or the best grab if they could trade down 3-5 spots would be Keith Rivers, LB)

We were discussing something of these sorts, although texas and mcrow don't think McKinnie is worth the trouble.


Party? An damn parade!

Seriously, we have not had any local sports trade a superstar type of player in his prime, ever. So, yea, we're jazzed.:D

OK a parade, I get that, I'm just saying that it sounds like they're sure this is gonna happen by tomorrow.

Coach
04-18-2008, 05:44 PM
I'm a Vikings fan I just thought I'd drop in and give you our POV on this trade.

First 99% of all Vikings fans want this done now at almost any cost. Most of us feel that the Vikings are a stud DE & consistant QB away from winning the NFC. This should certainly fix one of those problems if it happens.

As far as the # of picks and rounds:

It's highly unlikely they'll give up 2 first rounders
a 1st & a 2nd is more probable
a 1st & a 3rd is the most likely trade. They might give up a 1st this year and a 2nd next year but I highly doubt they will give up both this year.

Yes, this doesn't sound like much for a guy who might be the best DE in the league but the Chiefs are not in much of position to bargain. There are only about 3 teams that have the cap room to pull off something like this. One of them only has 5 draft picks this year, another would have to do some drastic contract restructuring in order to make the cap work. That leaves the Vikings with plenty of cap room and 9 draft picks to deal with. Add to that Allen's off the field problems and the fact that he'll leave on his own if they don't trade him and the Chiefs are in sort of a bad spot.

I compare it to the Johan Santana trade, we sign him or have to take what people will give us in trade and more than likely get the short end of it.

The Chiefs were my second team growing up, I loved watching Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas,Christian Okoye and the like. It really seems odd to me that KC would actually trade a stud DE in his prime.

Carl Peterson has/had no plans of resigning JA until he has signed this year's draft class. Then once he gets that done, he will know what kind of cap room they have and can structure a deal for JA. He doesn't have to do a deal with JA right now, because JA is under contract. Think back 1 year ago. The LJ situation went down the exact same way. Secondly, JA carries the franchise tag. So any team that goes after him will take it in the shorts in the first place.

Next, consider the fact that the Chiefs are already loaded with picks this year. And they have the 5th pick in this year's draft. So using draft picks as trade bait, doesn't carry the weight that it typically would with Carl Peterson. This deal would have to be very rich. Too rich. If the Chiefs did trade, it would be a mega deal for them I'm sure.

I don't want to see JA leave KC, but there is something to be said for selling high. And right now JA's trade value couldn't be much higher. CP might even require Steve Hutchinson for this kind of trade. Something like a 1st, 2nd, and Hutch. Then I think it's a great deal for the Chiefs. By trading JA, the Chiefs are not in this trade down scenario that they currently find themselves. They simply take the best player in the draft. Dorsey, Chris Long, QB, CB, it really wouldn't matter who is still sitting there at the 5th pick.

With all of this talk taking place in Minnesota, it almost seems that Minnesota is "pot committed" to getting this deal done. I am eager to see what the Chiefs can swing out of this deal. It had better be a lot because there will be some angry Chiefs fans that just bought a useless jersey. And the Chiefs suddenly find themselves needing to sell tickets. So trading away the fan favorite will require Minnesota to make an offer CP just can't refuse in my opinion.


I NEVER liked Mitchell. Who did we draft that started for us? Mitchell? Fujita? Sims? Warfield?

There's no bias...we didn't draft anyone of value...ever. You need to let this "Mitchell" thing go, dude. He really isn't THAT good.

I agree that Mitchell isn't as good as the money he got. You guys saw him play. He really isn't that great.

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 05:46 PM
Party? An damn parade!

Seriously, we have not had any local sports trade a superstar type of player in his prime, ever. So, yea, we're jazzed.:D

Yeah this would be pretty big in the Twin Cities. You guys are more accustomed to players departing in these deals.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 05:50 PM
Carl Peterson has/had no plans of resigning JA until he has signed this year's draft class. Then once he gets that done, he will know what kind of cap room they have and can structure a deal for JA. He doesn't have to do a deal with JA right now, because JA is under contract. Think back 1 year ago. The LJ situation went down the exact same way. Secondly, JA carries the franchise tag. So any team that goes after him will take it in the shorts in the first place.

Next, consider the fact that the Chiefs are already loaded with picks this year. And they have the 5th pick in this year's draft. So using draft picks as trade bait, doesn't carry the weight that it typically would with Carl Peterson. This deal would have to be very rich. Too rich. If the Chiefs did trade, it would be a mega deal for them I'm sure.

I don't want to see JA leave KC, but there is something to be said for selling high. And right now JA's trade value couldn't be much higher. CP might even require Steve Hutchinson for this kind of trade. Something like a 1st, 2nd, and Hutch. Then I think it's a great deal for the Chiefs. By trading JA, the Chiefs are not in this trade down scenario that they currently find themselves. They simply take the best player in the draft. Dorsey, Chris Long, QB, CB, it really wouldn't matter who is still sitting there at the 5th pick.

With all of this talk taking place in Minnesota, it almost seems that Minnesota is "pot committed" to getting this deal done. I am eager to see what the Chiefs can swing out of this deal. It had better be a lot because there will be some angry Chiefs fans that just bought a useless jersey. And the Chiefs suddenly find themselves needing to sell tickets. So trading away the fan favorite will require Minnesota to make an offer CP just can't refuse in my opinion.



I agree that Mitchell isn't as good as the money he got. You guys saw him play. He really isn't that great.

You've been drinking red Kool-aid if you think that the the Vikes will trade Hutchinson. Just wont happen the best deal KC will get is going to be a 1st & a 2nd this year or a 1st, 2nd, and McKinnie. They probably won't get McKinnie either, just a 1st & 2nd.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:50 PM
Carl Peterson has/had no plans of resigning JA until he has signed this year's draft class. Then once he gets that done, he will know what kind of cap room they have and can structure a deal for JA. He doesn't have to do a deal with JA right now, because JA is under contract. Think back 1 year ago. The LJ situation went down the exact same way. Secondly, JA carries the franchise tag. So any team that goes after him will take it in the shorts in the first place.

Next, consider the fact that the Chiefs are already loaded with picks this year. And they have the 5th pick in this year's draft. So using draft picks as trade bait, doesn't carry the weight that it typically would with Carl Peterson. This deal would have to be very rich. Too rich. If the Chiefs did trade, it would be a mega deal for them I'm sure.

I don't want to see JA leave KC, but there is something to be said for selling high. And right now JA's trade value couldn't be much higher. CP might even require Steve Hutchinson for this kind of trade. Something like a 1st, 2nd, and Hutch. Then I think it's a great deal for the Chiefs. By trading JA, the Chiefs are not in this trade down scenario that they currently find themselves. They simply take the best player in the draft. Dorsey, Chris Long, QB, CB, it really wouldn't matter who is still sitting there at the 5th pick.

With all of this talk taking place in Minnesota, it almost seems that Minnesota is "pot committed" to getting this deal done. I am eager to see what the Chiefs can swing out of this deal. It had better be a lot because there will be some angry Chiefs fans that just bought a useless jersey. And the Chiefs suddenly find themselves needing to sell tickets. So trading away the fan favorite will require Minnesota to make an offer CP just can't refuse in my opinion.



I agree that Mitchell isn't as good as the money he got. You guys saw him play. He really isn't that great.

I agree with the first part of your post Coach, we are gonna have to get an awesome deal for this to go down.

From the talk of the radio guys in Minnesota it sounds like they are prepared to do it.

As for the second part, I thought Mitchell was a good LB in KC and in NY.

Coach
04-18-2008, 05:54 PM
You've been drinking red Kool-aid if you think that the the Vikes will trade Hutchinson. Just wont happen the best deal KC will get is going to be a 1st & a 2nd this year or a 1st, 2nd, and McKinnie. They probably won't get McKinnie either, just a 1st & 2nd.

You've been drinking purple kool-aid if you think the Chiefs will trade their best player and also their "franchise" player. That is unless the Vikings are willing to pay up for that kind of player.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 05:56 PM
Hutch is 30. not sure how much weight that would carry in this trade.

The Chiefs HAVE to come away with a first AND second in this draft no matter what else they bring back. The Chiefs need 4 or 5 picks in the first 2 rounds. That would be huge.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 05:59 PM
One of these guys thinks Gholston is gonna be the number one pick in the draft.

I'm not too sure I'm trusting them that much.

That guy they were interviewing sounded like he knew what he was talking about and he sounded pretty sure that we will be getting amply compensated for this trade.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 06:03 PM
You've been drinking purple kool-aid if you think the Chiefs will trade their best player and also their "franchise" player. That is unless the Vikings are willing to pay up for that kind of player.

This deal is pretty much already done. No players have been mentioned being included.

A 1st & 2nd round pick seems to be what the deal will be.

Coach
04-18-2008, 06:05 PM
This deal is pretty much already done. No players have been mentioned being included.

A 1st & 2nd round pick seems to be what the deal will be.

That is what is being speculated as the offer. That doesn't mean that it will be accepted.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 06:05 PM
Carl Peterson has/had no plans of resigning JA until he has signed this year's draft class. Then once he gets that done, he will know what kind of cap room they have and can structure a deal for JA. He doesn't have to do a deal with JA right now, because JA is under contract. Think back 1 year ago. The LJ situation went down the exact same way. Secondly, JA carries the franchise tag. So any team that goes after him will take it in the shorts in the first place.


I thought Jareds contract was up, and that's why we had to slap the franchise tag on him?

Isn't that how this whole fiasco began?

texaschief
04-18-2008, 06:06 PM
I think Coach was right about "selling high." I don't see Allen having career years like the one he just had for the rest of his career. Either he plateaus or he doesn't reach those numbers again.

If this does go down and we do bring back some ample booty, Carl would have turned a 4th round pick into what will amount to a pair of first round picks. Allen could possibly go down as Carl's best draft pick as the GM of the Chiefs.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 06:07 PM
That is what is being speculated as the offer. That doesn't mean that it will be accepted.

It's not really up to us is it?

We either match what the Vikes are gonna pay him and give him a contract, or we negotiate with whoever Jared wants to go with, right?

mcrow
04-18-2008, 06:08 PM
That is what is being speculated as the offer. That doesn't mean that it will be accepted.

Maybe not but the way it sounds it will be done very soon. There is absoulutely no way the vikings trade Hutchinson, period. It will not happen. I highly doubt they'd give up a player in a trade that they also give up two picks. That leave draft picks and the highest thing mentioned so far has been a 1st & 2nd round pick.

You may be right and they get more but I doubt it.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 06:08 PM
It's not really up to us is it?

We either match what the Vikes are gonna pay him and give him a contract, or we negotiate with whoever Jared wants to go with, right?

no...we could always do what we were going to do and wait till after the draft to address Allen's contract.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 06:11 PM
no...we could always do what we were going to do and wait till after the draft to address Allen's contract.

Again, I believe Jared when he says he will never sign a contract with the Chiefs.

We will be stuck throwing the franchise tag on him again next year.

leaves
04-18-2008, 06:13 PM
so from what ive heard, were tryin to get a 1st & 2nd rd. pick for Allen.
it hurts me cuz I like Allen, but man.. thats a lotta potential from the draft. With those picks we could grab DE n replace him, then add on. Or we could build up the offense with lineman/maybe qb.

tricky.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 06:17 PM
Again, I believe Jared when he says he will never sign a contract with the Chiefs.

We will be stuck throwing the franchise tag on him again next year.

chances are that if he signed a long term deal here, he'd be with the Chiefs longer than CP anyway.

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 06:20 PM
Because the Chiefs didn't use the Exclusive Franchise Tag on Jared Allen it is essentially like a RFA...he can go and sign an offer sheet with anyone in the league, and the Chiefs have the right to match the offer or let him go. However as I understand this isn't an issue of Minnesota signing him and giving the 2 1st round draft picks tendered for signing the Franchise Tagged player, but rather they've expressed interest in trading for his rights. In which case the negotiations are more open. I highly doubt that the Chiefs would give up Allen for less than a 1st & a 2nd, and some compensation for next year...

As good as Allen is, he probably did just have his career year. He may put up similar numbers, but he'd be hard pressed to outperform last years numbers. Additionally if the offense gets better then his time on the field (and thus his numbers) would likely decline some. I like him as a player, but I do think that if the Chiefs could get a 1st and 2nd in this years draft plus a player (i.e. McKinnie) or an early pick next year, then this trade could be equitable for both teams.

Coach
04-18-2008, 06:20 PM
Again, I believe Jared when he says he will never sign a contract with the Chiefs.

We will be stuck throwing the franchise tag on him again next year.

I also seem to remember LJ saying that he'd never play again for the Chiefs. Money talks, BS walks. He'll play for the Chiefs again if they don't trade him. He'd leave 10's of millions of dollars on the table if he doesn't.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 06:21 PM
If we get a 1st and 2nd from Minnesota, i'm still wanting to trade out of #5 and acquire a couple more picks. I'd love to see 2 first round picks and 3 second rounders and maybe even 3 third rounders to go along with our 7 4th-7th rounders!! 14 PICKS WOULD GO A LOOOOOOOOONG WAY!!!

Coach
04-18-2008, 06:25 PM
chances are that if he signed a long term deal here, he'd be with the Chiefs longer than CP anyway.

:lol:


If we get a 1st and 2nd from Minnesota, i'm still wanting to trade out of #5 and acquire a couple more picks. I'd love to see 2 first round picks and 3 second rounders and maybe even 3 third rounders to go along with our 7 4th-7th rounders!! 14 PICKS WOULD GO A LOOOOOOOOONG WAY!!!

Yes, but that's a lot of money to tie up in players who haven't even played a down of football. If these picks don't end up panning out, the Chiefs could become the Cincinnati Bengals of the 90's.

Guru
04-18-2008, 06:34 PM
I'm a Vikings fan I just thought I'd drop in and give you our POV on this trade.

First 99% of all Vikings fans want this done now at almost any cost. Most of us feel that the Vikings are a stud DE & consistant QB away from winning the NFC. This should certainly fix one of those problems if it happens.

As far as the # of picks and rounds:

It's highly unlikely they'll give up 2 first rounders
a 1st & a 2nd is more probable
a 1st & a 3rd is the most likely trade. They might give up a 1st this year and a 2nd next year but I highly doubt they will give up both this year.

Yes, this doesn't sound like much for a guy who might be the best DE in the league but the Chiefs are not in much of position to bargain. There are only about 3 teams that have the cap room to pull off something like this. One of them only has 5 draft picks this year, another would have to do some drastic contract restructuring in order to make the cap work. That leaves the Vikings with plenty of cap room and 9 draft picks to deal with. Add to that Allen's off the field problems and the fact that he'll leave on his own if they don't trade him and the Chiefs are in sort of a bad spot.

I compare it to the Johan Santana trade, we sign him or have to take what people will give us in trade and more than likely get the short end of it.

The Chiefs were my second team growing up, I loved watching Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas,Christian Okoye and the like. It really seems odd to me that KC would actually trade a stud DE in his prime.

1st and 3rd would be stupid. You need him more than we need to dump him. 1st and 2nd this year minimum. Anything less and you got a steal.

You even admit how badly you want him. Why would the Chiefs be the one with no bargaining room. Stupid.

Dyno-Mite
04-18-2008, 06:41 PM
Chiefs won't make big free agent signing until they've established their core group of guys thru this draft and possibly next year's draft.


There is no way in hell that we go after huge free agent signings within 2 years.Texaschief,you make it seem as if the Chiefs are not a Super Bowl oriented team.There simply is no die-hard Chief fan that's thinking about going to the playoffs or betteryet Super Bowl after 2 years is over.

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 06:46 PM
1st and 3rd would be stupid. You need him more than we need to dump him. 1st and 2nd this year minimum. Anything less and you got a steal.

You even admit how badly you want him. Why would the Chiefs be the one with no bargaining room. Stupid.

Agreed...the only way a 1st and 3rd would work is if a starter on the O-line under the age of 30 was included. Remember O-linemen play solid into their mid to late 30s, so McKinnie likely has 5-7 good years left at 29.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 06:49 PM
Agreed...the only way a 1st and 3rd would work is if a starter on the O-line under the age of 30 was included. Remember O-linemen play solid into their mid to late 30s, so McKinnie likely has 5-7 good years left at 29.

We better get an O lineman from the Vikes in addition to the 1st and 2nd round pick this year and a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year as well or we are getting screwed.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 06:52 PM
There is no way in hell that we go after huge free agent signings within 2 years.Texaschief,you make it seem as if the Chiefs are not a Super Bowl oriented team.There simply is no die-hard Chief fan that's thinking about going to the playoffs or betteryet Super Bowl after 2 years is over.

Uh, I'm thinking wild card this year and we're probably a Super Bowl contender after that in 2010.

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 06:56 PM
We better get an O lineman from the Vikes in addition to the 1st and 2nd round pick this year and a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year as well or we are getting screwed.

Ummm 4 picks and an o-linemen???? HH, now you're going a tad bit overboard...

Figure the Vikings won't give much more than just the value of the two 1st round picks. They might give a little more to ensure they get him as opposed to the Chiefs matching their offer when they throw out an offer sheet.

Most likely scenario is the basic 1st & 2nd rounder this year and maybe an early pick next year

Best case scenario is 1st & 2nd this year with McKinnie. This largely would depend on Minnesota's comfort with their 2nd string LT?!

hermhater
04-18-2008, 06:58 PM
Ummm 4 picks and an o-linemen???? HH, now you're going a tad bit overboard...

Figure the Vikings won't give much more than just the value of the two 1st round picks. They might give a little more to ensure they get him as opposed to the Chiefs matching their offer when they throw out an offer sheet.

Most likely scenario is the basic 1st & 2nd rounder this year and maybe an early pick next year

Best case scenario is 1st & 2nd this year with McKinnie. This largely would depend on Minnesota's comfort with their 2nd string LT?!

That was an "or" for next year, not an "and", that is 3 picks and an O lineman.

That would be fair to me, and the Chiefs for the sack leader last year who missed 2 games and is still to hit his prime.

leaves
04-18-2008, 07:15 PM
the reporting from NFL.com is that KC wants a 1st and 2nd round pick from Minn. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have a very hard time saying a 1st rd. pick and 2nd rd. pick isnt enough for Jared Allen. There's a lot of reporting going on about Chris Long still there at 5.. that pretty much fulfills the loss, and offers a 17th pick. Not to mention the two 2nd round picks we'd have. I'm almot excited, but I dont want to be.

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 07:17 PM
the reporting from NFL.com is that KC wants a 1st and 2nd round pick from Minn. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have a very hard time saying a 1st rd. pick and 2nd rd. pick isnt enough for Jared Allen. There's a lot of reporting going on about Chris Long still there at 5.. that pretty much fulfills the loss, and offers a 17th pick. Not to mention the two 2nd round picks we'd have. I'm almot excited, but I dont want to be.

A 1st and 2nd this year isn't quite enough, but MN threw in a 2nd or 3rd for next year it probably works.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 07:19 PM
the reporting from NFL.com is that KC wants a 1st and 2nd round pick from Minn. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have a very hard time saying a 1st rd. pick and 2nd rd. pick isnt enough for Jared Allen. There's a lot of reporting going on about Chris Long still there at 5.. that pretty much fulfills the loss, and offers a 17th pick. Not to mention the two 2nd round picks we'd have. I'm almot excited, but I dont want to be.

They better get more than just 2 picks this year for him.

If Carl takes just a first and second rounder I wouldn't be surprised.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 07:22 PM
the reporting from NFL.com is that KC wants a 1st and 2nd round pick from Minn. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have a very hard time saying a 1st rd. pick and 2nd rd. pick isnt enough for Jared Allen. There's a lot of reporting going on about Chris Long still there at 5.. that pretty much fulfills the loss, and offers a 17th pick. Not to mention the two 2nd round picks we'd have. I'm almot excited, but I dont want to be.

I'm guessing the Chiefs are asking for more than that or we would've seen this as a done deal on ESPN by now.

rbedgood
04-18-2008, 07:25 PM
They better get more than just 2 picks this year for him.

If Carl takes just a first and second rounder I wouldn't be surprised.

The Chiefs can't count on getting Long (either one) at 5 for the trade to be equitable. I'd say they need to get at least #17, #47 & #82 to make this trade equitable. Frankly the Chiefs are probably better off letting the Vikings sign him, then matching the offer. This way they have him locked in for a few years and they can still trade him, but the bargaining power is entirely on the Chiefs side at that point.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 07:27 PM
agreed

hermhater
04-18-2008, 07:29 PM
The Chiefs can't count on getting Long (either one) at 5 for the trade to be equitable. I'd say they need to get at least #17, #47 & #82 to make this trade equitable. Frankly the Chiefs are probably better off letting the Vikings sign him, then matching the offer. This way they have him locked in for a few years and they can still trade him, but the bargaining power is entirely on the Chiefs side at that point.

Let's say that Jared gets a wonderful offer from the Vikings and we match it.

Does Jared HAVE to sign the contract or can he reject it and stay franchised?

texaschief
04-18-2008, 07:31 PM
Let's say that Jared gets a wonderful offer from the Vikings and we match it.

Does Jared HAVE to sign the contract or can he reject it and stay franchised?

If he signs the tender from Minnesota, then KC offers the same package, Allen HAS to sign it. Period.

Which, is why the two teams are talking about trading Allen before Allen signs anything.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 07:33 PM
If he signs the tender from Minnesota, then KC offers the same package, Allen HAS to sign it. Period.

Which, is why the two teams are talking about trading Allen before Allen signs anything.


Then for Gods sake I hope we match it.

I hope Jared gets his big payday and remains a Chief.

texaschief
04-18-2008, 07:35 PM
Then for Gods sake I hope we match it.

I hope Jared gets his big payday and remains a Chief.

He's not going to sign anything from Minn. until he's traded. Once he's traded, he has no attachment to KC whatsoever.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 07:41 PM
He's not going to sign anything from Minn. until he's traded. Once he's traded, he has no attachment to KC whatsoever.

I don't want him traded.

I want Carl forced into signing him, if anything.

mcrow
04-18-2008, 10:49 PM
I'm guessing the Chiefs are asking for more than that or we would've seen this as a done deal on ESPN by now.

actually it sounds like the trade part of the deal has been agree upon, they are now trying to nail down a contract. Since this is a sign & trade sort of deal noething will be announced until both are done.

Good luck getting two picks and a player out of the Vikings. I'd say if you want a 1st, a 3rd and McKinnie you might get a bite on that but I doubt they'd give up a st, 2nd and McKinnie. They're going to need atleast a 2nd rounder this year to replace McKinnie adn we don't have any good young OL waiting in the wings.

hermhater
04-18-2008, 11:05 PM
actually it sounds like the trade part of the deal has been agree upon, they are now trying to nail down a contract. Since this is a sign & trade sort of deal noething will be announced until both are done.

Good luck getting two picks and a player out of the Vikings. I'd say if you want a 1st, a 3rd and McKinnie you might get a bite on that but I doubt they'd give up a st, 2nd and McKinnie. They're going to need atleast a 2nd rounder this year to replace McKinnie adn we don't have any good young OL waiting in the wings.

Where have you heard that the trade aspect is already done?

A first and a second pick in this draft doesn't sound like a "Wow" deal to me.

I could actually see Carl doing that ridiculous trade though.

texaschief
04-19-2008, 01:01 AM
Where have you heard that the trade aspect is already done?

A first and a second pick in this draft doesn't sound like a "Wow" deal to me.

I could actually see Carl doing that ridiculous trade though.

I think a 1st and 2nd is a fair deal. I'd like it to be an obviously great deal for the Chiefs, but a 1st and 2nd is probably fair value.

Coach
04-19-2008, 01:31 AM
Under the NFL’s rules for nonexclusive franchise players, Allen can entertain offers from other teams until July 15, the end of the free-agency period. Allen has said if the Chiefs do not sign him to a multiyear deal by then, he would not sign any future contract to remain in Kansas City.
In the meantime, other teams could offer Allen a deal. If another team makes an offer, the Chiefs could match it. If the Chiefs pass, Allen’s new team would owe the Chiefs two first-round draft picks. A trade, however, could alter that arrangement.

Chiefster
04-19-2008, 02:20 AM
Under the NFL’s rules for nonexclusive franchise players, Allen can entertain offers from other teams until July 15, the end of the free-agency period. Allen has said if the Chiefs do not sign him to a multiyear deal by then, he would not sign any future contract to remain in Kansas City.
In the meantime, other teams could offer Allen a deal. If another team makes an offer, the Chiefs could match it. If the Chiefs pass, Allen’s new team would owe the Chiefs two first-round draft picks. A trade, however, could alter that arrangement.


I'd still like to keep him, but that's just me.

wolfpack
04-19-2008, 10:52 AM
JA`s gone. i have gotton over him. good/bad he`s gone. next step,we better draft not average,not good but great. that is something i dont trust in the queen or his lapdog.
As far as WPI, this magazine reminds me of a cross between mad magazine and the national enquire.

mcrow
04-19-2008, 10:52 AM
For the record, the Chiefs fans on these forums are the only ones that I've heard of that think JA is worth more than a 1st & 2nd.

Chiefster
04-19-2008, 01:12 PM
For the record, the Chiefs fans on these forums are the only ones that I've heard of that think JA is worth more than a 1st & 2nd.

Your point?

hermhater
04-19-2008, 01:49 PM
For the record, the Chiefs fans on these forums are the only ones that I've heard of that think JA is worth more than a 1st & 2nd.


Your point?

I'm not even sure who else, besides me, has said that he is worth more.

I said he is worth a 1st and 2nd plus either player personnel plus a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year.

I would take either an O lineman from you guys this year OR a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year though.

chief31
04-19-2008, 02:53 PM
Party? An damn parade!

Seriously, we have not had any local sports trade a superstar type of player in his prime, ever. So, yea, we're jazzed.:D

That is because it is stupid to trade away your best player in his prime. Few teams are stupid enough to do it.


Again, I believe Jared when he says he will never sign a contract with the Chiefs.



I know I ask this often, but where is this quote at? I have been hearing about it for awhile now, but it seems to be quite an evasive quote.


so from what ive heard, were tryin to get a 1st & 2nd rd. pick for Allen.
it hurts me cuz I like Allen, but man.. thats a lotta potential from the draft. With those picks we could grab DE n replace him, then add on. Or we could build up the offense with lineman/maybe qb.

tricky.

Oh sure... Why not? We can just snatch up a league-leading sack master, without batting an eye. They are like money in the bank, coming out of college.


Uh, I'm thinking wild card this year and we're probably a Super Bowl contender after that in 2010.

So, all you do is make every concievable prediction, then, after the results are in, find the one that was right, and flaunt it all over the place? That's awefully brave of you. Lol.


the reporting from NFL.com is that KC wants a 1st and 2nd round pick from Minn. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have a very hard time saying a 1st rd. pick and 2nd rd. pick isnt enough for Jared Allen. There's a lot of reporting going on about Chris Long still there at 5.. that pretty much fulfills the loss, and offers a 17th pick. Not to mention the two 2nd round picks we'd have. I'm almot excited, but I dont want to be.

A.) The no. 5 pick isn't what the Vikings are offering us.

B.) Who the hell is Chris Long? (JK, I know who he is.) How many sacks has he aquired in the NFL? We can just replace one of best, if not the best, DE(s) in the NFL, by getting one of the best, if not the best, DE(s) in the NCAA?

It's possible, but far from likely. If we do trade Jared Allen, it is likely that we don't replace him (accurately) for another decade, or more. How long has it been since we had another DE that could do what Jared has done?

chief31
04-19-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm not even sure who else, besides me, has said that he is worth more.

I said he is worth a 1st and 2nd plus either player personnel plus a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year.

I would take either an O lineman from you guys this year OR a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year though.

It sounds like the Chiefs are dying to get ripped-off. Because I would gladly give three first-day picks for Jared Allen. Gladly!!!

hermhater
04-19-2008, 03:04 PM
I know I ask this often, but where is this quote at? I have been hearing about it for awhile now, but it seems to be quite an evasive quote.


We haven't talked so I'm expecting the franchise tag,'' Allen said. "For me, I stated my position. If I play this season under the franchise tag, this is my last year in Kansas City.”

http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/articles/show/2062-a-game-of-tag-for-potential-defensive-ufas




And just as a little side note, I find this quote from Carl last year a bit amusing...


“We will not lose Jared Allen,”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/582529.html

hermhater
04-19-2008, 03:05 PM
It sounds like the Chiefs are dying to get ripped-off. Because I would gladly give three first-day picks for Jared Allen. Gladly!!!

I completely agree, we are gonna get screwed in this deal, I'm sure.

:mob:

chief31
04-19-2008, 03:11 PM
We haven't talked so I'm expecting the franchise tag,'' Allen said. "For me, I stated my position. If I play this season under the franchise tag, this is my last year in Kansas City.”

http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/arti...defensive-ufas (http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/articles/show/2062-a-game-of-tag-for-potential-defensive-ufas)

And just as a little side note, I find this quote from Carl last year a bit amusing...

Again with the "If the Chiefs don't want me then..." quote? Surely I am not so "out of the loop" that I missed the season that Jared played under the franchise tag. What year was that?

hermhater
04-19-2008, 03:38 PM
Again with the "If the Chiefs don't want me then..." quote? Surely I am not so "out of the loop" that I missed the season that Jared played under the franchise tag. What year was that?

I guess I'm just not sure what you're asking for then.

All I was saying is that Jared said if he is franchised it will be his last year as a Chief.

chief31
04-19-2008, 03:41 PM
I guess I'm just not sure what you're asking for then.

All I was saying is that Jared said if he is franchised it will be his last year as a Chief.
I want to see where Jared Allen says that he doesn't want to be here, like everyone keeps saying. Not where he says he WON'T want be here if..

I see it all the time. "Well, Jared says he doesn't want to be here..." And yet Jared has not said that...yet.

hermhater
04-19-2008, 03:43 PM
I want to see where Jared Allen says that he doesn't want to be here, like everyone keeps saying. Not where he says he WON'T want be here if..

I see it all the time. "Well, Jared says he doesn't want to be here..." And yet Jared has not said that...yet.

OK, how about this quote from that same article I got the quote from Carl about not losing Jared.


“I love this town,” he was saying. “The people here are great. The fans are the best. But … I’m excited about going somewhere new. I’m looking at this as a new challenge. I mean, it would be really cool to go play somewhere else, like a new adventure.”

Does that convince you he doesn't want to be here anymore?

chief31
04-19-2008, 03:54 PM
OK, how about this quote from that same article I got the quote from Carl about not losing Jared.



Does that convince you he doesn't want to be here anymore?
No.

A.) See the "..." there? That is the press removing the "if".

B.) "I love this town,” he was saying. “The people here are great. The fans are the best." Doesn't sound like he WANTS to leave to me.

I'm not tryna rag on ya here, but suggesting that these "quotes" mean that he doesn't want to be here, is like taking this... " If you kill my Mother, I will be mad at you." as saying that I am mad at you. Where, in that quote, did I tell you that I am mad at you?

Canada
04-19-2008, 04:09 PM
No.

A.) See the "..." there? That is the press removing the "if".

B.) "I love this town,” he was saying. “The people here are great. The fans are the best." Doesn't sound like he WANTS to leave to me.

I'm not tryna rag on ya here, but suggesting that these "quotes" mean that he doesn't want to be here, is like taking this... " If you kill my Mother, I will be mad at you." as saying that I am mad at you. Where, in that quote, did I tell you that I am mad at you?

Jared has made it clear from the beginning that if he is franchised he will never sign another contract in KC. That says to me that he does not want to be here that badly!!

chief31
04-19-2008, 04:13 PM
Jared has made it clear from the beginning that if he is franchised he will never sign another contract in KC. That says to me that he does not want to be here that badly!!

Then you don't hear so well. He said if he plays under the franchise tag, which he certainly hasn't, then he will not play again in K.C.

Again, if you kill my mother, then I am going to be mad at you.

Canada
04-19-2008, 04:16 PM
Then you don't hear so well. He said if he plays under the franchise tag, which he certainly hasn't, then he will not play again in K.C.

Again, if you kill my mother, then I am going to be mad at you.

I guess you can add if to his statements and say he wants to stay all you like. Fact is he is in Minnesota trying to work out a deal. That speaks more to me about his desire to be in KC than adding a few "ifs" and "buts" to his statements!!

chief31
04-19-2008, 04:20 PM
I guess you can add if to his statements and say he wants to stay all you like. Fact is he is in Minnesota trying to work out a deal. That speaks more to me about his desire to be in KC than adding a few "ifs" and "buts" to his statements!!

I didn't add anything. Everyone else chose to remove the "IF"s.

If you feel better by blaming Jared for the team having never offered him a contract, then go ahead. But, since you didn't kill my mother, I am not mad at you.

Canada
04-19-2008, 04:36 PM
I didn't add anything. Everyone else chose to remove the "IF"s.

If you feel better by blaming Jared for the team having never offered him a contract, then go ahead. But, since you didn't kill my mother, I am not mad at you.

I am not "blaming" anyone for what is going on. Its just that all I have heard is how this is all Carl and Herms fault, and Jared certainly helped get to the point we are at.


...and don;t worry, your mom is safe around me!! :D

royalswin100games
04-19-2008, 04:55 PM
I am not "blaming" anyone for what is going on. Its just that all I have heard is how this is all Carl and Herms fault, and Jared certainly helped get to the point we are at.


...and don;t worry, your mom is safe around me!! :D

I don't think it's as much Herm as it is Carl. Carl franchised the guy after he said he wanted the contract. Should've paid the man.

I agree JA's reaction escalated the situation but he made it clear what he wanted and it didn't happen. IMO, he should get paid like he's the best DE in the league, because he is.

YZILLA
04-19-2008, 05:07 PM
Man there sure are alot of Warpaint illustrated haters in this crowd. As far as I know ,all the posts I have made quoting my resources at Warpaint have been true. The players who have been said to be leaving the chiefs at the end of the season have pretty much came true. I really would like to know why people really hate these people of this website or magazine. I have never found anything to be untrue yet, and I have never heard of any of the staff there talk bad about any of the members here so I guess I don't understand where all the hostility has come from. I am a member there but only because I like to read about the chiefs . I maybe have 7 posts in the forum there so I am not a traitor to the chiefs crowd. It just seems like when I Post anything from the WPI someone always says something negative .

texaschief
04-19-2008, 05:11 PM
I didn't add anything. Everyone else chose to remove the "IF"s.

If you feel better by blaming Jared for the team having never offered him a contract, then go ahead. But, since you didn't kill my mother, I am not mad at you.

So, i guess as a GM, you shouldn't flinch on giving a guy a massive contract to a guy with a bad attitude toward you and your team when he has yet to prove he can stay out of trouble during the offseason. It's still a long time until training camp.

It's not like Allen is asking for the moon or anything. I mean he ONLY wants to be the highest paid DE in history.

What's the worst that could happen? We get stuck with another bad contract on a guy who doesn't really want to be here? When has that ever happened?

hermhater
04-19-2008, 05:20 PM
Man there sure are alot of Warpaint illustrated haters in this crowd. As far as I know ,all the posts I have made quoting my resources at Warpaint have been true. The players who have been said to be leaving the chiefs at the end of the season have pretty much came true. I really would like to know why people really hate these people of this website or magazine. I have never found anything to be untrue yet, and I have never heard of any of the staff there talk bad about any of the members here so I guess I don't understand where all the hostility has come from. I am a member there but only because I like to read about the chiefs . I maybe have 7 posts in the forum there so I am not a traitor to the chiefs crowd. It just seems like when I Post anything from the WPI someone always says something negative .

I don't give a crap where you get Chiefs info from, just keep it coming!

:bananen_smilies046:

YZILLA
04-19-2008, 05:23 PM
So, i guess as a GM, you shouldn't flinch on giving a guy a massive contract to a guy with a bad attitude toward you and your team when he has yet to prove he can stay out of trouble during the offseason. It's still a long time until training camp.

It's not like Allen is asking for the moon or anything. I mean he ONLY wants to be the highest paid DE in history.

What's the worst that could happen? We get stuck with another bad contract on a guy who doesn't really want to be here? When has that ever happened?

Honestly I feel the best DE in the league should be the highest paid in the league . As far as his past issues with the law, he got a friggen DUI or two . I know Alot of great people who have gotten them. He had an issue a couple of years ago. He changed his ways and changed his mid-set and workout and eating habits and is a completely different person I'm my eyes. He cannot be labeled a trouble maker all his life . Alot of us were fu**ups when we were young and dumb. Add millions of Dollars to your pocket and what happens. Cut him some slack. I want him here bad. He is worth every penny until he proves hes not. We are becoming a team that No big name player would ever consider playing for because we treat them like a red headed stepchild. ( no offense to anyone ) . If he leaves i think we better get a HUGE deal for him since he is the BEST in the league at his position .

hermhater
04-19-2008, 05:24 PM
No.

A.) See the "..." there? That is the press removing the "if".

B.) "I love this town,” he was saying. “The people here are great. The fans are the best." Doesn't sound like he WANTS to leave to me.

I'm not tryna rag on ya here, but suggesting that these "quotes" mean that he doesn't want to be here, is like taking this... " If you kill my Mother, I will be mad at you." as saying that I am mad at you. Where, in that quote, did I tell you that I am mad at you?

OK, how about this quote?



“It’s a situation that works out best for both sides,” Allen told Fox, adding he expects a deal to get done before the draft. “I can go to a team that is competing for a championship right now. The Chiefs can get valuable draft picks to rebuild with.”

Allen has wanted out since negotiations for a long-term contract broke down last year, according to the Kansas City Star.


http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/17852879.html

texaschief
04-19-2008, 05:30 PM
Honestly I feel the best DE in the league should be the highest paid in the league . As far as his past issues with the law, he got a friggen DUI or two . I know Alot of great people who have gotten them. He had an issue a couple of years ago. He changed his ways and changed his mid-set and workout and eating habits and is a completely different person I'm my eyes. He cannot be labeled a trouble maker all his life . Alot of us were fu**ups when we were young and dumb. Add millions of Dollars to your pocket and what happens. Cut him some slack. I want him here bad. He is worth every penny until he proves hes not. We are becoming a team that No big name player would ever consider playing for because we treat them like a red headed stepchild. ( no offense to anyone ) . If he leaves i think we better get a HUGE deal for him since he is the BEST in the league at his position .

There's a new "best in the league DE" EVERY SINGLE year. Freeney was the best 2 years ago, Taylor was the best last year and Allen this year. Odds are, he had a career year and won't be "the best" next year.

I'd like him to be here also, but we can possibly fill 2 or 3 holes by trading him. That's more important when you're rebuilding.

YZILLA
04-19-2008, 05:39 PM
There's a new "best in the league DE" EVERY SINGLE year. Freeney was the best 2 years ago, Taylor was the best last year and Allen this year. Odds are, he had a career year and won't be "the best" next year.

I'd like him to be here also, but we can possibly fill 2 or 3 holes by trading him. That's more important when you're rebuilding.

Good point ! He is the best right now until someone proves me wrong . We do need to fill holes all over . it sucks his will be one of them and it will unlikely be with someone as good as him . Which is why its a lose -lose deal as far as his situation goes.

texaschief
04-19-2008, 05:52 PM
PFT:

The discussions are continuining between the Minnesota Vikings and the Kansas City Chiefs and the Minnesota Vikings and defensive end Jared Allen regarding the transaction that would entail the Vikings giving picks and/or players to the Chiefs and plenty of money to Allen in order to acquire the league’s sack leader in 2008.

“It’s a multi-front type of [deal],” owner Zygi Wilf said on Friday. “You have to deal with Kansas City, you have to deal with Jared. It’s a whole aspect, and you have to weigh that with what’s best for the club. That’s ultimately what’s most important. What would be the best for this club and how we can get to the next level?”

Chiefs G.M. Carl Peterson, a hard-nosed negotiator who would request a sixth-round pick for a partially used stick of gum, claims that nothing is close. “[W]e’re talking in speculation right now,” Peterson said. “At this particular point, nothing has been done or consummated.”

The Minneapolis Star Tribune suggests that the Vikes would have to give up at a minimum first-round pick and a third-round pick in 2008. Charley Water of the St. Paul Pioneer Press suggests that the Vikes will offer their first-round pick this year and a second-round pick in 2009.

Neither package is much less than the two first-round picks that the Vikes would have to surrender if they deal directly with Allen and sign him to an offer sheet.

And even though coach Brad Childress says that the team wouldn’t give up two first-round picks for Allen, we think that the Vikings should strongly consider signing Allen to an offer sheet after the 2008 draft. If the Chiefs don’t match (a poison pill might be necessary to ensure that they won’t), the Vikings would give up their first-round picks in 2009 and 2010. And if Allen’s presence helps get the Vikings to the next level, the picks sacrificed in 2009 and 2010 would be low in round one.

It would be the biggest trade risk that the Vikings have taken since 1989, when they gave up three first-round picks, three second-round picks, a sixth-round pick, and five players for Herschel Walker, two third-round picks, a fifth-round pick, and a tenth-round pick. In comparison, however, a first-round pick in 2009 and a first-round pick in 2010 for the best defensive end to wear purple and gold since Chris Doleman would seem to be a small price to play.
**************************

If the Vikings wait till after the draft to sign Allen to a tender, the Chiefs will match and build around Allen for the future. There's no way in hell the Chiefs let Allen go for a pair of late first round picks in 09 and 10. Those picks would come AFTER the rebuild. That kind of package wouldn't and shouldn't interest the Chiefs at all.

Chiefster
04-19-2008, 06:22 PM
Chiefs G.M. Carl Peterson, a hard-nosed negotiator who would request a sixth-round pick for a partially used stick of gum, claims that nothing is close. “[W]e’re talking in speculation right now,” Peterson said. “At this particular point, nothing has been done or consummated.

Translation: Jared Allen has in fact played his final game as a Kansas City Chief.

hermhater
04-19-2008, 10:00 PM
PFT:

The discussions are continuining between the Minnesota Vikings and the Kansas City Chiefs and the Minnesota Vikings and defensive end Jared Allen regarding the transaction that would entail the Vikings giving picks and/or players to the Chiefs and plenty of money to Allen in order to acquire the league’s sack leader in 2008.

“It’s a multi-front type of [deal],” owner Zygi Wilf said on Friday. “You have to deal with Kansas City, you have to deal with Jared. It’s a whole aspect, and you have to weigh that with what’s best for the club. That’s ultimately what’s most important. What would be the best for this club and how we can get to the next level?”

Chiefs G.M. Carl Peterson, a hard-nosed negotiator who would request a sixth-round pick for a partially used stick of gum, claims that nothing is close. “[W]e’re talking in speculation right now,” Peterson said. “At this particular point, nothing has been done or consummated.”

The Minneapolis Star Tribune suggests that the Vikes would have to give up at a minimum first-round pick and a third-round pick in 2008. Charley Water of the St. Paul Pioneer Press suggests that the Vikes will offer their first-round pick this year and a second-round pick in 2009.

Neither package is much less than the two first-round picks that the Vikes would have to surrender if they deal directly with Allen and sign him to an offer sheet.

And even though coach Brad Childress says that the team wouldn’t give up two first-round picks for Allen, we think that the Vikings should strongly consider signing Allen to an offer sheet after the 2008 draft. If the Chiefs don’t match (a poison pill might be necessary to ensure that they won’t), the Vikings would give up their first-round picks in 2009 and 2010. And if Allen’s presence helps get the Vikings to the next level, the picks sacrificed in 2009 and 2010 would be low in round one.

It would be the biggest trade risk that the Vikings have taken since 1989, when they gave up three first-round picks, three second-round picks, a sixth-round pick, and five players for Herschel Walker, two third-round picks, a fifth-round pick, and a tenth-round pick. In comparison, however, a first-round pick in 2009 and a first-round pick in 2010 for the best defensive end to wear purple and gold since Chris Doleman would seem to be a small price to play.
**************************

If the Vikings wait till after the draft to sign Allen to a tender, the Chiefs will match and build around Allen for the future. There's no way in hell the Chiefs let Allen go for a pair of late first round picks in 09 and 10. Those picks would come AFTER the rebuild. That kind of package wouldn't and shouldn't interest the Chiefs at all.


Translation: Jared Allen has in fact played his final game as a Kansas City Chief.

Not so fast here guys, this could be promising.

Hmmm...

I still think he will be gone though.

texaschief
04-19-2008, 11:11 PM
Carl could just be letting some other team do his dirty work, then match the offer. This way, relations between he and Allen don't degenerate any farther. Could be a smart move by Peterson in this negotiation....Personally, I'd rather have the picks. lol

royalswin100games
04-19-2008, 11:20 PM
Carl could just be letting some other team do his dirty work, then match the offer. - Nice. This way, relations between he and Allen don't degenerate any farther. Could be a smart move by Peterson in this negotiation....Personally, I'd rather have the picks. lol - Not so nice

I, of course, disagree with the pick idea but the rest of the post is great.

chief31
04-20-2008, 03:55 AM
So, i guess as a GM, you shouldn't flinch on giving a guy a massive contract to a guy with a bad attitude toward you and your team when he has yet to prove he can stay out of trouble during the offseason. It's still a long time until training camp.

It's not like Allen is asking for the moon or anything. I mean he ONLY wants to be the highest paid DE in history.

What's the worst that could happen? We get stuck with another bad contract on a guy who doesn't really want to be here? When has that ever happened?

Last year, you and I were in complete agreeance about L.J. The reason that I wanted him traded, was because I saw that he was not going to do well without an offensive line. I didn;t want L.J. to get paid for the performance of guys who had retired, (Roaf and Shields) and left via free-agency (Richardson).

But Jared Allen makes plays on his own. It isn't just the one season of sack stats. The previous season, he led the NFL in forced fumbles. Every season, he bats down more passes than other d-linemen. Every season, when he isn't sacking the QB, he is very frequently close to the QB, forcing a hurried throw.

Jared is a top talent, and I can't see why that would change, as it has been several years running.

L.J. was the beneficiary of other outstanding players, more than a top, individual, performer.


Man there sure are alot of Warpaint illustrated haters in this crowd. As far as I know ,all the posts I have made quoting my resources at Warpaint have been true. The players who have been said to be leaving the chiefs at the end of the season have pretty much came true. I really would like to know why people really hate these people of this website or magazine. I have never found anything to be untrue yet, and I have never heard of any of the staff there talk bad about any of the members here so I guess I don't understand where all the hostility has come from. I am a member there but only because I like to read about the chiefs . I maybe have 7 posts in the forum there so I am not a traitor to the chiefs crowd. It just seems like when I Post anything from the WPI someone always says something negative .

I don't have a problem with WPI.


OK, how about this quote?


“It’s a situation that works out best for both sides,” Allen told Fox, adding he expects a deal to get done before the draft. “I can go to a team that is competing for a championship right now. The Chiefs can get valuable draft picks to rebuild with.”

He is being shoved out the door. Sounds like he is playing along. Still doesn't say that he doesn't want to be here. Unless you are refferring to this...


Allen has wanted out since negotiations for a long-term contract broke down last year, according to the Kansas City Star.

Which is someone else painting J.A. as the malcontent, the way so many have been doing.


Carl could just be letting some other team do his dirty work, then match the offer. This way, relations between he and Allen don't degenerate any farther. Could be a smart move by Peterson in this negotiation....Personally, I'd rather have the picks. lol

It would be wise to get a "market value" on a player in this situation. Hopefully that is the case.

As for the draft picks, you don't seem to want football players, just more fantasy football. You want to get rid of a great football player for a chance at a couple of possible starters. I bet we could get a second, or third, round pick for D.J. Let's start the proceedings.

texaschief
04-20-2008, 04:25 AM
It would be wise to get a "market value" on a player in this situation. Hopefully that is the case.

As for the draft picks, you don't seem to want football players, just more fantasy football. You want to get rid of a great football player for a chance at a couple of possible starters. I bet we could get a second, or third, round pick for D.J. Let's start the proceedings.

Well, let's see....more starters=less holes on the team which=a better overall team. If it's "fantasy football" why is it happening in reality?

Bottom line, you have no idea what you're talking about Are you really that delusional and blinded by your man crush on Jared Allen that you don't think draft picks will help this team?

GET OVER YOURSELF.

chief31
04-20-2008, 04:34 AM
Well, let's see....more starters=less holes on the team which=a better overall team. If it's "fantasy football" why is it happening in reality?

Bottom line, you have no idea what you're talking about Are you really that delusional and blinded by your man crush on Jared Allen that you don't think draft picks will help this team?

GET OVER YOURSELF.

Ooo. Struck a nerve.

Not as much as an all-around superb talent at a very hard to fill need like pass-rushing. Also, I believe we have draft picks, right? The likelihood of filling the void that J.A. would leave are immensly slim.

A starter isn't all that. Just so you'll know, Kyle Turley and Chris Terry were both capable starters last season, according to your man-crush, Hermie.

I support J.A. because he does his job extremely well. You support Herm because...? He has been a failure in his seven seasons as a head coach. I don't get it.

texaschief
04-20-2008, 04:39 AM
Ooo. Struck a nerve.

Not as much as an all-around superb talent at a very hard to fill need like pass-rushing. Also, I believe we have draft picks, right? The likelihood of filling the void that J.A. would leave are immensly slim.

A starter isn't all that. Just so you'll know, Kyle Turley and Chris Terry were both capable starters last season, according to your man-crush, Hermie.

I support J.A. because he does his job extremely well. You support Herm because...? He has been a failure in his seven seasons as a head coach. I don't get it.

yeah, top 5 talent at DE usually turn out to be flops...let me tell ya. Long or Gholston would do just fine filling his shoes. Hell, even if we draft a DT, they'd have to double on the DT and give Hali one on one which he doesn't often times get.

We could also put McBride on the end. I hear he's better suited for the outside anyway. There are plenty of options to fill the void on the outside.

hermhater
04-20-2008, 04:40 AM
You guys keep makin' love!

:yahoo:

chief31
04-20-2008, 04:48 AM
yeah, top 5 talent at DE usually turn out to be flops...let me tell ya. Long or Gholston would do just fine filling his shoes. Hell, even if we draft a DT, they'd have to double on the DT and give Hali one on one which he doesn't often times get.

We could also put McBride on the end. I hear he's better suited for the outside anyway. There are plenty of options to fill the void on the outside.

Has Tamba ever been double-teamed? What a complete hallucination! Hali has one-on-one almost every play. Because, in case you hadn't heard, there is this guy, Jared Allen, who teams have to double as often as possible.

And McBride was too slow to play DE, and too small to play DT. But, luckily, he was fast enough to play DT, and big enough to play DE.

Not that it is just impossible to replace J.A., but how many guys are there that do the things that he does? Two, maybe three? Finding a guy with the ability to do what Jared does is a very tough task. You don't just start streaming the names of whoever you already have. Those guys just don't come into the league often. Let alone to the Chiefs.

texaschief
04-20-2008, 05:04 AM
Has Tamba ever been double-teamed? What a complete hallucination! Hali has one-on-one almost every play. Because, in case you hadn't heard, there is this guy, Jared Allen, who teams have to double as often as possible.

And McBride was too slow to play DE, and too small to play DT. But, luckily, he was fast enough to play DT, and big enough to play DE.

Not that it is just impossible to replace J.A., but how many guys are there that do the things that he does? Two, maybe three? Finding a guy with the ability to do what Jared does is a very tough task. You don't just start streaming the names of whoever you already have. Those guys just don't come into the league often. Let alone to the Chiefs.

You've GOT to be kidding!!!! Jared Allen only had 7.5 sacks in 06....really? you can't replace that? oh wait...that's right, he missed 4 games...tough to replace a guy who hasn't played a full season due to off the field issues in the last 2 seasons.

Oh, I was wrong again....have you seen the sack leaders from 07? Osi, Ware, Cole, Dumerville, Mario Williams....all with 3 or fewer years in the league. Pretty much goes against your whole, "you can't replace him easily" theory, huh?

Basically, all it would take to replace Allen is a first round pick....and guess what, if we trade Allen, we'll have two!! How bout that!!

You know what else? We'll get another pick to help rebuild that line you keep crying about.

hermhater
04-20-2008, 05:08 AM
I'm so worked up now.

chief31
04-20-2008, 05:14 AM
You've GOT to be kidding!!!! Jared Allen only had 7.5 sacks in 06....really? you can't replace that? oh wait...that's right, he missed 4 games...tough to replace a guy who hasn't played a full season due to off the field issues in the last 2 seasons.

Oh, I was wrong again....have you seen the sack leaders from 07? Osi, Ware, Cole, Dumerville, Mario Williams....all with 3 or fewer years in the league. Pretty much goes against your whole, "you can't replace him easily" theory, huh?

Basically, all it would take to replace Allen is a first round pick....and guess what, if we trade Allen, we'll have two!! How bout that!!

You know what else? We'll get another pick to help rebuild that line you keep crying about.

Seriously. Are you slamming your keyboard around? I don't want to be blamed for causing you to hurt yourself. Take a second...

Pssst. When Jared had 7.5 sacks, he led the NFL in forced fumbles. Not bad, ehh?

And here we have it folks. Any old first round pick is a guaranteed sacks leader in the NFL. TC just said so. Do I even need to tell you how ridiculous that is?

As I said, sure, that's a possibility. But it is quite a long shot.

By the way, those guys you named... how many games did it take them to aquire fewer sacks than Jared did? And how many DEs weren't on that list, that were drafted recently? Is it more than four? I bet it was a couple more than four, wasn't it?

texaschief
04-20-2008, 05:21 AM
Seriously. Are you slamming your keyboard around? I don't want to be blamed for causing you to hurt yourself. Take a second...

Pssst. When Jared had 7.5 sacks, he led the NFL in forced fumbles. Not bad, ehh?

And here we have it folks. Any old first round pick is a guaranteed sacks leader in the NFL. TC just said so. Do I even need to tell you how ridiculous that is?

As I said, sure, that's a possibility. But it is quite a long shot.

By the way, those guys you named... how many games did it take them to aquire fewer sacks than Jared did? And how many DEs weren't on that list, that were drafted recently? Is it more than four? I bet it was a couple more than four, wasn't it?

not many that were taken in the first 2 rounds....if any...in fact, even the atrocious Hali was on that list...and he was taken in the middle of the first round.

Guess it's not as long a shot as you wish it were, huh? I really wish you'd support your claims instead of talking out of your ***.

chief31
04-20-2008, 05:32 AM
not many that were taken in the first 2 rounds....if any...in fact, even the atrocious Hali was on that list...and he was taken in the middle of the first round.

Guess it's not as long a shot as you wish it were, huh? I really wish you'd support your claims instead of talking out of your ***.

Which one of those players has led the NFL in either scaks, or forced fumbles? And which one of them had more sacks than Jared did last year?

But seriously. Don't make me look it up. Over the last three drafts, however many rounds you want to include here, how many DEs had less than eight sacks in '07? (Since J.A. had 15.5, I figure that a suitable replacement would be able get half as many, at least. 1/2 of 15.5 is 7.75)

You brought it up, as if it was just a sure thing for drafted DEs to be such a huge success, so show us the rest of the numbers. Not just the couple of cases that suit your argument.

I also want to point-out that in '07, none of them had as many sacks as Jared had in 14 games.

chief31
04-20-2008, 05:49 AM
Awwww... well, maybe tommorrow then?

chief31
04-20-2008, 06:45 AM
not many that were taken in the first 2 rounds....if any...in fact, even the atrocious Hali was on that list...and he was taken in the middle of the first round.

Guess it's not as long a shot as you wish it were, huh? I really wish you'd support your claims instead of talking out of your ***.

O.k., well let me do the first round for ya, to help get you started...

2007


Gaines Adams - #4 overall - 6 sacks in '07


Jamaal Anderson - #8 overall - 0 sacks in '07


Jarvis Moss - #17 overall - 1 sack in '07



how many DEs weren't on that list, that were drafted recently? Is it more than four?



not many that were taken in the first 2 rounds....if any...


2006


Mario Williams - #1 overall - 14 sacks in '07


Tamba Hali - #20 overall - 8 sacks in '07


Mathias Kiwanuka - #32 overall - 4.5 sacks in '07 - 8.5 career


2005


Erasmus James - #18 overall - 1 in '07 - 5 career


Marcus Spears - #20 overall - 2 in '07 - 4.5 career


Luis Castillo - #28 overall - 2.5 in '07 - 13 career



how many DEs weren't on that list, that were drafted recently? Is it more than four?



not many that were taken in the first 2 rounds....if any...


2004


Will Smith - #18 overall - 7 in '07 - 33 career


Kenechi Udeze - #20 - 5 in '07 - 11 career



how many DEs weren't on that list, that were drafted recently? Is it more than four?



not many that were taken in the first 2 rounds....if any...


2003


Kevin Williams - #9 overall - 3 in '07 - 34 career


Ty Warren - #13 overall - 4 in '07 - 17.5 career


Michael Haynes - #14 overall - 0 in '07 - 5.5 career


Jerome McDougle - #15 overall - 0 in '07 - 1 career


Calvin Pace - #18 overall - 6.5 in'07 - 14 career


Tyler Brayton - #32 overall - 0 in '07 - 6 career



I really wish you'd support your claims instead of talking out of your ***.


That's a total of 60 season of the frist round picks from the past five drafts. Wuth a combined career total of 182 sacks. The average sacks per season for this group is 3. In fact, the average number of sacks for these players in the 2007 season is a fraction less than 4.



I really wish you'd support your claims instead of talking out of your ***.


Jared Allen - #126 - 15.5 in '07 - 43 career (11 sacks per season avg.)


Looks like the average first round pick at DE gets you about 3 sacks per season, and J. A. gets 11.


Even the #1 overall pick, Mario Williams is only averaging 9.25.


So, where is this simple replacement that you have all lined-up? He must be in the second round, hunh?



I really wish you'd support your claims instead of talking out of your ***.


Now, who's talking out of their ***?


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2007&round=round1
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2006&round=round1
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2005&round=round1
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2004&round=round1
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2003&round=round1

texaschief
04-20-2008, 04:01 PM
Half the guys you posted aren't even full time starters yet....kinda like when Allen first came into the league.

Do you really think
Will Smith
Marcus Spears
Luis Castillo
Mathias Kiwanuka
Erasmus James
Tamba Hali
Mario Williams
Jarvis Moss
Jamaal Anderson
and Gaines Adams

ARE ALL BUSTS?!!! :lol: :lol:

wow.

texaschief
04-20-2008, 04:03 PM
If you concede that the Chiefs won't be ready to make a serious deep playoff run until 2010, the Chiefs can afford to develop a stud DE over the next two seasons.

hermhater
04-20-2008, 04:18 PM
If you concede that the Chiefs won't be ready to make a serious deep playoff run until 2010, the Chiefs can afford to develop a stud DE over the next two seasons.

Umm... we only develop one of those once a decade.

How does that work that we get one by 2010 again?

texaschief
04-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Umm... we only develop one of those once a decade.

How does that work that we get one by 2010 again?

:sign0153:

hermhater
04-20-2008, 04:32 PM
:sign0153:

DT in the 90's JA this decade.

You think it's that easy to just snatch up a guy with that kind of talent, then why doesn't every team have one?

chief31
04-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Half the guys you posted aren't even full time starters yet....kinda like when Allen first came into the league.

Do you really think
Will Smith
Marcus Spears
Luis Castillo
Mathias Kiwanuka
Erasmus James
Tamba Hali
Mario Williams
Jarvis Moss
Jamaal Anderson
and Gaines Adams

ARE ALL BUSTS?!!! :lol: :lol:

wow.

Bust, or not, not one of them has earned the right to be considered a suitable replacement for a player the caliber of Jared Allen. Mario Williams is the only one that can be compared to Jared.

You stated that any old first round pick would easily replace what we would lose with Jared, and nothing could be further from the truth.

J.A. is among the absolute elite in pass-rushing DEs, and that is a scarce commodity in the NFL. Even if you deny him his best season,(2007) he is still better than all but Mario Williams in sacks per season,(Very close competition there, and you have to allow the use of Williams' best season.) of all of the first round DEs from the past five drafts.

And yet you still want to argue, even after the evidence is in, and you have been exposed as an exaggerative liar. How about learning when you are wrong? Or is that what you have in common with Herm?

I truly enjoy arguing with you, because you put up some great arguments. But, for the love of absolutely anything, once you have been thouroughly :sign0081: in a particular matter, just :sign0090: .

:D

Coach
04-22-2008, 01:21 AM
For the record, the Chiefs fans on these forums are the only ones that I've heard of that think JA is worth more than a 1st & 2nd.

That is because we have watched him and understand how hard it would be to replace him.


Jared has made it clear from the beginning that if he is franchised he will never sign another contract in KC. That says to me that he does not want to be here that badly!!

LJ said the same stuff. Jared will play once CP gives him a contract after the draftees are signed if he isn't traded by then.


Man there sure are alot of Warpaint illustrated haters in this crowd. As far as I know ,all the posts I have made quoting my resources at Warpaint have been true. The players who have been said to be leaving the chiefs at the end of the season have pretty much came true. I really would like to know why people really hate these people of this website or magazine. I have never found anything to be untrue yet, and I have never heard of any of the staff there talk bad about any of the members here so I guess I don't understand where all the hostility has come from. I am a member there but only because I like to read about the chiefs . I maybe have 7 posts in the forum there so I am not a traitor to the chiefs crowd. It just seems like when I Post anything from the WPI someone always says something negative .

I'm not sure where this came from. I've never heard anything negative about WP on this site until Go_Chiefs started his rampage in this thread. I think people are disagreeing with the content(JA getting traded), not the 2nd hand reporting of it by WP.




Basically, all it would take to replace Allen is a first round pick.....

This was addressed by Chief31 and I agree it's not that simple. There are no sure fire Jared Allen's in this draft. Not at #5, and surely not at Minnesota's pick late in the 1st.



I respectfully request deletion of this thread. Posting premium information from our subscribers board is against our terms of service. It's not allowed.

No problem. I have edited the post to remove your copyrighted information.


Take it down Mods . Sorry for offending anyone . Guess I never knew it was a violation. I will never do it again.

No problem. I appreciate and encourage the sharing of Chiefs related news. Isn't that what a Chiefs Fan Site is supposed to do. Just don't use WP content any more. They obviously don't feel the same way.


I am certain that if you asked the mods or coach in Private Message this small indiscretion could be taken care of. I guess no one knew that you have pay only information on your site and that they were not allowed to share the information that they purchased. No need to make a big deal out of it in a public forum. :bananen_smilies046:
Thank you Canada. Pretty much sums it up.


Like I said, I am protected under fair use laws.

You guys most certainly are not.

I PM'd the site administrator hours ago and have not received a response.

I still have not received a PM from you. But, even if you had sent one, I wouldn't have read it until now. I have a day job partially because I don't charge people to access the information on our site. I have removed your content.


Trust me... continuing to complain in this thread is not going to get him to respond any faster. He does have a full time job.

Patience.

Thanks Guru!


Who cares? It will be all over the internet within 10 minutes anyway. i can wait rather than hear from that pompous site.

:D


"Fair Use" guy is very misguided about the use of a copyrighted recording. If any of those recordings are available to "Members Only" on his "subscription based" website then he has derived revenue from those recordings and is in clear violation of copyright laws...even so, he lives in the gray area by using them on a site that is a revenue generator.

I have been around here for a while, and I'll guarantee you that Coach (when he gets off work and signs in) will take care of your issue GoChiefs...

In the meantime I believe what everyone that is currently here is saying, is that you're yelling and screaming at the wrong people and making yourself look like a Donkey. I understand your concern is to ensure that your information doesn't get out like this again, but believe me, you've also ensured that none of the interested parties that are here would consider signing up for your service. Personally as everyone here knows I'm not a Chiefs fan, but a certifiable football nut. I wish you well with your site!

You are correct rbedgood, once I got home from work and found this thread, I deleted their content.

Go Chiefs, if there is any other copyrighted content you would like removed just shoot me a PM. Also, I would like you to please pay me $100 for your subscription to this site, or you will be banned in 7 days. j/k:sign0104: .


PS. I am cleaning up this thread and deleting many of the off-topic posts.

hermhater
04-22-2008, 01:30 AM
The most awesomest post ever Coach!

:sign0098:

(How come I didn't get quoted? It would have been even awesomer!)

:bananen_smilies046:

royalswin100games
04-22-2008, 01:32 AM
The most awesomest post ever Coach!

:sign0098:

(How come I didn't get quoted? It would have been even awesomer!)

:bananen_smilies046:

Yeah, me too. I found that fair use stuff and everything.

:sign0098: Coach.

royalswin100games
04-22-2008, 02:30 AM
Had to come back and post this nonsense I just read.

http://video1.washingtontimes.com/redskins/2008/04/how_about_jared_allen_david_el.html

hermhater
04-22-2008, 03:00 AM
Had to come back and post this nonsense I just read.

http://video1.washingtontimes.com/redskins/2008/04/how_about_jared_allen_david_el.html



I hate clicking on a link to get info, just post it here.

It's not like you are violating any copyright laws.

:bananen_smilies046:

Guru
04-22-2008, 03:32 AM
Thanks Guru!



:D




Go Chiefs, if there is any other copyrighted content you would like removed just shoot me a PM. Also, I would like you to please pay me $100 for your subscription to this site, or you will be banned in 7 days. j/k:sign0104: .


PS. I am cleaning up this thread and deleting many of the off-topic posts.

I was hoping you would tell them off. :D

They definitely would not have treated you with the same respect you treated them.

Guess that is why I post here and not on their site.

:sign0098:

I would have cleaned it up myself but he irritated me too much to comply after all his ranting.

rbedgood
04-23-2008, 02:13 PM
Yeah, and the Donkey from WPI doesn't even have enough class to make his "thank you" as public as his "CRYING".

hermhater
04-23-2008, 02:20 PM
Yeah, and the Donkey from WPI doesn't even have enough class to make his "thank you" as public as his "CRYING".

You are assuming he ever said Thank You.

:11:

Canada
04-23-2008, 02:45 PM
You are assuming he ever said Thank You.

:11:

Forget that crap...you guys hear they traded Jared Allen. WPI knew about it about 8 seconds before I did. I know I shoulda got that subscription!!

hermhater
04-23-2008, 02:47 PM
Forget that crap...you guys hear they traded Jared Allen. WPI knew about it about 8 seconds before I did. I know I shoulda got that subscription!!

You can still get it and post it all over the interwebby!

:bananen_smilies046:

GoChiefs
04-23-2008, 02:53 PM
I'm not going to thank anyone for doing what should have been done without my presence.

hermhater
04-23-2008, 02:57 PM
I'm not going to thank anyone for doing what should have been done without my presents.

You brought presents?????

Kick ***, what did I get?

:D

Canada
04-23-2008, 04:18 PM
I'm not going to thank anyone for doing what should have been done without my presence.

Why are you still here? Your post is gone so why do you still post? No one cares about your thanx. You have successfully stopped anyone who has seen you tantrum from joining WPI, so why are you wasting your time and ours? Go away...don't come back!! Fu#%in douche!!

rbedgood
04-23-2008, 06:26 PM
I'm not going to thank anyone for doing what should have been done without my presence.

HAHA...this dude has almost as much negative rep as TimSatt....

Guru
04-23-2008, 07:46 PM
I'm not going to thank anyone for doing what should have been done without my presence.
Had you chosen a better way to approach the issue, a professional way, you might have seen quicker results.

You chose the low road. Sucks to be you.

Buh bye.

chief31
04-23-2008, 09:46 PM
I'm not going to thank anyone for doing what should have been done without my presence.

GET IN YOUR HOLE!!!

Coach
04-23-2008, 10:20 PM
GET IN YOUR HOLE!!!

Guru took care of that for us.

Chiefster
04-23-2008, 11:18 PM
Had you chosen a better way to approach the issue, a professional way, you might have seen quicker results.

You chose the low road. Sucks to be you.

Buh bye.

Ah yes the GoChiefs we all know and love...

Chiefster
04-23-2008, 11:19 PM
Guru took care of that for us.


Quite nicely I might add.

hermhater
04-23-2008, 11:20 PM
Ah yes the GoChiefs we all know and love...

What is the deal?

What is he like on those other sites?

Why did he come here being an ***?

Is this a turf war or something?

Chiefster
04-23-2008, 11:26 PM
What is the deal?

What is he like on those other sites?

Why did he come here being an ***?

Is this a turf war or something?

The deal is that he's a mental child.

He's pretty much the same on those other sites so what you read from him is pretty much what you get. The difference here is that those other sites don't take out the garbage, they let him hang around.

Because that's what he does; reference the story of the scorpion and the swan.

Ummmmmm, something like that. WPI charges for their info and it's free here.

Hope this clears things up. :D

hermhater
04-23-2008, 11:33 PM
The deal is that he's a mental child.

He's pretty much the same on those other sites so what you read from him is pretty much what you get. The difference here is that those other sites don't take out the garbage, they let him hang around.

Because that's what he does; reference the story of the scorpion and the swan.

Ummmmmm, something like that. WPI charges for their info and it's free here.

Hope this clears things up. :D

Gotcha!

:sign0098:

Chiefster
04-23-2008, 11:34 PM
HAHA...this dude has almost as much negative rep as TimSatt....

...Impossible.

Chiefster
04-23-2008, 11:35 PM
Gotcha!

:sign0098:

...Glad I could help.















Nite Crowd!

Coach
04-24-2008, 12:10 AM
What is the deal?

What is he like on those other sites?

Why did he come here being an ***?

Is this a turf war or something?

I had never head of him before. So turf war, no.

hermhater
04-24-2008, 12:12 AM
I had never head of him before. So turf war, no.

He is that guy who posts the Chiefs highlights videos.

Guru
04-24-2008, 12:58 AM
I had never head of him before. So turf war, no.

I generally liked him even though he can get on your nerves.

The way he handled things here really ticked me off though. WPI should be embarrassed to have him representing their site.

Sad thing is, I have heard that other members of that site handle things in the same manner.

hermhater
04-24-2008, 01:04 AM
I generally liked him even though he can get on your nerves.

The way he handled things here really ticked me off though. WPI should be embarrassed to have him representing their site.

Sad thing is, I have heard that other members of that site handle things in the same manner.

I still don't get who he is.

tornadospotter
04-24-2008, 02:29 AM
I still don't get who he is.


He is that guy who posts the Chiefs highlights videos.
Thats who he was!

Guru
04-24-2008, 02:33 AM
Thats who he was!

BINGO
:D

hermhater
04-24-2008, 03:08 AM
Thats who he was!

Smarty pants.


:lol:

m0ef0e
04-24-2008, 03:22 PM
.....WPI sux. I coulda told anybody that before this fiasco. I went to their forums once for like 10 seconds and couldn't get back to the crowd quick enough.

Seriously, WPI's forums remind me of the 12-year-old infested chat channels on Warcraft. Horrible.

People don't pay subscriptions to watch professional analysts/commentary or to read official articles and press releases on ESPN and such. Why somebody would pay WPI for amateur reporting and rumor-mongering is beyond me.

I heard that Barry Sanders is coming out of retirement to play for the Chiefs!

Give me 10 dollars...

hermhater
04-24-2008, 03:24 PM
.....WPI sux. I coulda told anybody that before this fiasco. I went to their forums once for like 10 seconds and couldn't get back to the crowd quick enough.

Seriously, WPI's forums remind me of the 12-year-old infested chat channels on Warcraft. Horrible.

People don't pay subscriptions to watch professional analysts/commentary or to read official articles and press releases on ESPN and such. Why somebody would pay WPI for amateur reporting and rumor-mongering is beyond me.

I heard that Barry Sanders is coming out of retirement to play for the Chiefs!

Give me 10 dollars...

:lol:

anaeelbackwards
04-24-2008, 03:39 PM
you guys are having such great posts! I WANT TO REP EM

but i guess ive already gone over my limit within the past 24 hours! GAHHHHHHHHHH:11: