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View Full Version : Hey Canada........your gonna love this!!!!!!



DrunkHillbilly
04-24-2008, 07:06 PM
Listened to John Clayton this morning talk about the Chiefs possibly working a deal with Buffalo. Possible draft and trade deal or just a straight trade that would somehow have the Chiefs ending up with 2 picks in the top 11!!!! Just caught the end of it so I'm not sure on the legistics.

texaschief
04-24-2008, 07:15 PM
so, we're giving up what? To have a pair of picks in the top 11 would suggest we're giving up the #17 pick AND something else to get to 11.

I'd rather trade out of 5 than 17. I want more picks!! More picks=better chance to get starters. I'd rather have 11 and 17 plus another 2nd or 3rd rounder.

hermhater
04-24-2008, 07:18 PM
I can't find any more info on this deal.

What show was he on?

I found it:


Trading places: Expect the Chiefs to actively shop for a trade that could put them into the top 12 of the draft in order to get one of the top offensive linemen. One possible trade partner could be the Buffalo Bills. With the 11th pick, the Bills are looking at wide receiver Devin Thomas and one of the three top small-college cornerbacks. By moving back, the Bills could maybe pick up a third-round pick and still have a choice of one cornerback and possibly Thomas.

texaschief
04-24-2008, 07:32 PM
I can't find any more info on this deal.

What show was he on?

I found it:

If we move from 17 to 11 at the expense of a third rounder, I'm doing that deal...no question. But, it'd have to be our last 3rd rounder. I would also wait until it was the Bill's turn to pick to pull the trigger. You need to consider the team needs for the teams between the 11 and 17 picks.

If all your guys that you'd want to trade up for are still on the board at 11 and not at risk of being taken between 11 and 17, there may not be a need to trade up.

hermhater
04-24-2008, 09:17 PM
If we move from 17 to 11 at the expense of a third rounder, I'm doing that deal...no question. But, it'd have to be our last 3rd rounder. I would also wait until it was the Bill's turn to pick to pull the trigger. You need to consider the team needs for the teams between the 11 and 17 picks.

If all your guys that you'd want to trade up for are still on the board at 11 and not at risk of being taken between 11 and 17, there may not be a need to trade up.

This is the part that I don't understand:


Expect the Chiefs to actively shop for a trade that could put them into the top 12 of the draft

We are already in the top 12 at number 5.

DrunkHillbilly
04-24-2008, 09:34 PM
This is the part that I don't understand:



We are already in the top 12 at number 5.
I believe they are talking about having 2 picks in the top 12!!

hermhater
04-24-2008, 09:36 PM
I believe they are talking about having 2 picks in the top 12!!

Well Clayton needs to be a little bit more specific.

Chiefster
04-24-2008, 09:42 PM
Listened to John Clayton this morning talk about the Chiefs possibly working a deal with Buffalo. Possible draft and trade deal or just a straight trade that would somehow have the Chiefs ending up with 2 picks in the top 11!!!! Just caught the end of it so I'm not sure on the legistics.

Carl's gonna trade Tony Gonzalez. :rolleyes:

hermhater
04-24-2008, 09:49 PM
Carl's gonna trade Tony Gonzalez. :rolleyes:

Bite your tongue!

:mob:

Chiefster
04-24-2008, 09:52 PM
Bite your tongue!

:mob:

I'm not into inflicting upon myself physical pain, so I'll have to pass.

Wski Girl
04-24-2008, 10:45 PM
Carl's gonna trade Tony Gonzalez. :rolleyes:
OOOOOO hell NO!!!:sign0103:

Chiefster
04-24-2008, 10:47 PM
OOOOOO hell NO!!!:sign0103:

I put nothing past Carl.

texaschief
04-24-2008, 11:01 PM
lol....actually, trading a 30 somethiing year old TE wouldn't be the worst decision if you could bring back a first round pick. I liked what i saw from Michael Allen last pre season as a receiving TE.

hermhater
04-24-2008, 11:04 PM
lol....actually, trading a 30 somethiing year old TE wouldn't be the worst decision if you could bring back a first round pick. I liked what i saw from Michael Allen last pre season as a receiving TE.

It's a bad idea if he is the best TE to ever play the game.:sign0104:

texaschief
04-24-2008, 11:08 PM
It's a bad idea if he is the best TE to ever play the game.:sign0104:

Actually, it's not considering his trade value is at the highest point if will ever be at for the rest of his career. His trade value has already started to drop and a player his age isn't exactly something the Chiefs want to have to build around.

Also, for all he's done for the Chiefs, it would be nice to try and get him to a contender to try and get a ring. We all know he won't be contributing all that much by the time the Chiefs are ready to compete.

hermhater
04-24-2008, 11:11 PM
Actually, it's not considering his trade value is at the highest point if will ever be at for the rest of his career. His trade value has already started to drop and a player his age isn't exactly something the Chiefs want to have to build around.

Also, for all he's done for the Chiefs, it would be nice to try and get him to a contender to try and get a ring. We all know he won't be contributing all that much by the time the Chiefs are ready to compete.

I completely disagree with the last part of that statement.

He has changed his diet and work out regimen and is in the best shape of his life.

I give him 5 years playing at his current superstar level.

texaschief
04-24-2008, 11:30 PM
I completely disagree with the last part of that statement.

He has changed his diet and work out regimen and is in the best shape of his life.

I give him 5 years playing at his current superstar level.

...and what if he gets hurt and his age hampers his ability to bounce back and he ends up with just 2 or 3 years operating at less than 100%? Then we end up getting nothing out of a guy who RIGHT NOW could bring back another first round pick.

I mean, we're talking about a 32 year old player playing at the top of his game (much like Taylor who you said was too old).

If Taylor, the best DE in the league isn't worth a first round pick plus perhaps a later pick to this team, why would Gonzo be any different? DE is a much more important position in the NFL than TE is.

hermhater
04-24-2008, 11:34 PM
...and what if he gets hurt and his age hampers his ability to bounce back and he ends up with just 2 or 3 years operating at less than 100%? Then we end up getting nothing out of a guy who RIGHT NOW could bring back another first round pick.

I mean, we're talking about a 32 year old player playing at the top of his game (much like Taylor who you said was too old).

If Taylor, the best DE in the league isn't worth a first round pick plus perhaps a later pick to this team, why would Gonzo be any different? DE is a much more important position in the NFL than TE is.

Dude, he is one of the few legitimate offensive threats we have right now.

I understand rebuilding, but giving away all of your pro bowl talent to gamble on the draft is just stupid.

I'm over the Jared Allen trade, but I'm not ready to cash in all our chips and just make some crazy run through the draft hoping that Herm can evaluate talent.

texaschief
04-25-2008, 12:02 AM
Dude, he is one of the few legitimate offensive threats we have right now.

I understand rebuilding, but giving away all of your pro bowl talent to gamble on the draft is just stupid.

I'm over the Jared Allen trade, but I'm not ready to cash in all our chips and just make some crazy run through the draft hoping that Herm can evaluate talent.

Why? What's the worst that could happen? Our offense was 2nd worst in the league last year WITH him. With him gone, that just means we're throwing to another guy. It's not like losing Gonzo is zero sum. Some one will step in and play that position...just not necessarily at a pro bowl level...but hey, maybe he does. You never know till that player gets a chance.

I understand everyone not wanting to lose Gonzo and not wanting to lose Allen. LJ would've been the best player to try and trade, but that contract has made it impossible.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 12:19 AM
Why? What's the worst that could happen? Our offense was 2nd worst in the league last year WITH him. With him gone, that just means we're throwing to another guy. It's not like losing Gonzo is zero sum. Some one will step in and play that position...just not necessarily at a pro bowl level...but hey, maybe he does. You never know till that player gets a chance.

I understand everyone not wanting to lose Gonzo and not wanting to lose Allen. LJ would've been the best player to try and trade, but that contract has made it impossible.

You can't be serious.

Without him last year we would not even had stood a chance at being close in any of our games.

He was critical in every single game if I recall.

I am not gonna look up game stats for him, but I watched the games and he helped us out of a lot of jams.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 12:23 AM
In response to myself, I shouldn't have said he was the only thing making games close, the defense was able to help us out quite a few times, I only meant offensively he was able to change games' momentum consistantly.

texaschief
04-25-2008, 12:32 AM
You can't be serious.

Without him last year we would not even had stood a chance at being close in any of our games.

He was critical in every single game if I recall.

I am not gonna look up game stats for him, but I watched the games and he helped us out of a lot of jams.

ok, so what? we would've lost 4 more games? see, it's Gonzo's fault we don't have your J. Long. :lol: jk.

I just think don't understand it when people assume some players are irreplaceable. Let's assume he isn't irreplaceable. What will the Chiefs do in "5 years" when he decides to retire? Then we're out an all-pro TE with nothing to show for it.

If we are able to choose when the players stop contributing to the team while acquiring something of value while also doing something to show our appreciation for his contributions like trading him to New England who needs a big time TE, we bring back at least something of comparable value for him at the #7 pick.

If we get picks at 5, 7 and 17 then again at 34, we could go DE, OL, CB, OL/WR. I think being able to put our team in that kind of position would be the best thing while we rebuild. We'd get the best DE, the best OL and a top 5 CB to go along with perhaps the 2nd or 3rd best WR if we choose to go that way...if not, then we get our 2nd OL starter with the 2nd rounder.

Gonzo IS a big part of this offense, but i think a starting LT would be great value for trading a 32 year old hall of fame TE.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 12:39 AM
ok, so what? we would've lost 4 more games? see, it's Gonzo's fault we don't have your J. Long. :lol: jk.

I just think don't understand it when people assume some players are irreplaceable. Let's assume he isn't irreplaceable. What will the Chiefs do in "5 years" when he decides to retire? Then we're out an all-pro TE with nothing to show for it.

If we are able to choose when the players stop contributing to the team while acquiring something of value while also doing something to show our appreciation for his contributions like trading him to New England who needs a big time TE, we bring back at least something of comparable value for him at the #7 pick.

If we get picks at 5, 7 and 17 then again at 34, we could go DE, OL, CB, OL/WR. I think being able to put our team in that kind of position would be the best thing while we rebuild. We'd get the best DE, the best OL and a top 5 CB to go along with perhaps the 2nd or 3rd best WR if we choose to go that way...if not, then we get our 2nd OL starter with the 2nd rounder.

Gonzo IS a big part of this offense, but i think a starting LT would be great value for trading a 32 year old hall of fame TE.

And then who is the leader on the offense?

Who's gonna be the veteran that keeps the rookies in line, and shows them how to grow?

Brodie?

texaschief
04-25-2008, 12:41 AM
And then who is the leader on the offense?

Who's gonna be the veteran that keeps the rookies in line, and shows them how to grow?

Brodie?

...last i checked, we still have a very vocal and solid leader on that offense in Brian Waters. Larry Johnson is still there also. Everyone was saying he was taking more of a leadership role last year.

Also McIntosh is no rookie.

texaschief
04-25-2008, 12:43 AM
and no...Brodie doesn't seem to be the leader needed on offense, which is why so many "experts" think we're going to take a QB somewhere in the first 2 rounds....yet another reason to grab another 1st round pick.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 12:45 AM
...last i checked, we still have a very vocal and solid leader on that offense in Brian Waters. Larry Johnson is still there also. Everyone was saying he was taking more of a leadership role last year.

Also McIntosh is no rookie.

Ummm...

I see you edited McIntosh in there before I got to respond.

Brian Waters is not gonna be able to be a leader to the "skill" positions on the offense. Sorry.

I was mentioning Brodie, because the only other option would be LJ, who you obviously thinks won't be a good role model, and neither do I.

That was my point. We lose more than just the most important offensive player we have, we lose the best chance at making the offense of the future effective.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 12:47 AM
and no...Brodie doesn't seem to be the leader needed on offense, which is why so many "experts" think we're going to take a QB somewhere in the first 2 rounds....yet another reason to grab another 1st round pick.

You sneaky son of a biscuit eater!

:lol:

Coach
04-25-2008, 12:48 AM
Dude, he is one of the few legitimate offensive threats we have right now.

I understand rebuilding, but giving away all of your pro bowl talent to gamble on the draft is just stupid.

I'm over the Jared Allen trade, but I'm not ready to cash in all our chips and just make some crazy run through the draft hoping that Herm can evaluate talent.
Exactly!!!

Coach
04-25-2008, 12:49 AM
Listened to John Clayton this morning talk about the Chiefs possibly working a deal with Buffalo. Possible draft and trade deal or just a straight trade that would somehow have the Chiefs ending up with 2 picks in the top 11!!!! Just caught the end of it so I'm not sure on the legistics.

I think it is a good idea to package up some of our later round picks to get another 1st or 2nd rounder. Just depends on what we have to give up.

texaschief
04-25-2008, 12:49 AM
Ummm...

I see you edited in McIntosh in there before I got to respond.

Brian Waters is not gonna be able to be a leader to the "skill" positions on the offense. Sorry.

I was mentioning Brodie, because the only other option would be LJ, who you obviously thinks won't be a good role model, and neither do I.

That was my point. We lose more than just the most important offensive player we have, we lose the best chance at making the offense of the future effective.

These players have played football their entire life. They have a full coaching staff around them, most of whom have played the game at the pro level. These guys aren't going to forget how to play the game just because a TE left.

Even 5 years of value as a role model isn't worth turning down a chance to bring in a starting LT.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 12:52 AM
Exactly!!!

:bananen_smilies046:

tammietailgator
04-25-2008, 12:54 AM
Tony's job is way to important for the development of Brodie and this whole team. We need that kind of talent and experience and YES age to even think about rebuilding this team! Plus we need his target factor for bowe to continue proving himself!

texaschief
04-25-2008, 12:57 AM
Tony's job is way to important for the development of Brodie and this whole team. We need that kind of talent and experience and YES age to even think about rebuilding this team! Plus we need his target factor for bowe to continue proving himself!

no it's not.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 12:57 AM
I think it is a good idea to package up some of our later round picks to get another 1st or 2nd rounder. Just depends on what we have to give up.

I'm all down for trading lower round draft picks for another 1st or 2nd rounder, no problem there.


These players have played football their entire life. They have a full coaching staff around them, most of whom have played the game at the pro level. These guys aren't going to forget how to play the game just because a TE left.

Even 5 years of value as a role model isn't worth turning down a chance to bring in a starting LT.

I'm assuming when you say "these players" that you are talking about the rookies from this draft (3 of which will probably never step on the field for the Chiefs), and they could definitely benefit from having a guy like Tony there to guide them.

I disagree, those 5 years are critical.

tammietailgator
04-25-2008, 12:59 AM
I'm all down for trading lower round draft picks for another 1st or 2nd rounder, no problem there.



I'm assuming when you say "these players" that you are talking about the rookies from this draft (3 of which will probably never step on the field for the Chiefs), and they could definitely benefit from having a guy like Tony there to guide them.

I disagree, those 5 years are critical.

Very!:D

hermhater
04-25-2008, 01:00 AM
no it's not.

Yes it is.

texaschief
04-25-2008, 01:12 AM
I'm all down for trading lower round draft picks for another 1st or 2nd rounder, no problem there.



I'm assuming when you say "these players" that you are talking about the rookies from this draft (3 of which will probably never step on the field for the Chiefs), and they could definitely benefit from having a guy like Tony there to guide them.

I disagree, those 5 years are critical.

3 of the 13 picks?

hermhater
04-25-2008, 01:14 AM
3 of the 13 picks?

Yes.

We all know that all the draft picks aren't gonna pan out.

texaschief
04-25-2008, 01:15 AM
Yes.

We all know that all the draft picks aren't gonna pan out.

true, but those are usually 7th rounders and such. very few first rounders don't step on the field.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 01:19 AM
I have no idea what I am talking about and I shouldn't even be discussing football with that Football God HH.

I agree!

:bananen_smilies046:

texaschief
04-25-2008, 01:22 AM
LMFAO!!!! i agree with everything i said earlier except the "HH is a football god" part. I must've been smoking some SERIOUSLY AMAZING sh#%!!!!

hermhater
04-25-2008, 01:23 AM
LMFAO!!!! i agree with everything i said earlier except the "HH is a football god" part. I must've been smoking some SERIOUSLY AMAZING sh#%!!!!

:bananen_smilies046:

texaschief
04-25-2008, 02:52 AM
you really do have amazing ideas and every time the Chiefs end up doing something you suggest, it just shows your absolute genius.

wow. thanks HH. That was completely unexpected and i appreciate your kind words. it's good to know you're not just a post whore.

hermhater
04-25-2008, 03:06 AM
wow. thanks HH. That was completely unexpected and i appreciate your kind words. it's good to know you're not just a post whore.

:lol:

This should be fun!

:bananen_smilies046:

Wski Girl
04-25-2008, 11:38 AM
im still convinced Tony is good for the team and we should keep him:D

Canada
04-25-2008, 11:57 AM
wow. thanks HH. I am starting to feel boy love for you!!


Wow!! I feel the same way Texas:bananen_smilies046:




This should be a fun relationship but we should hide our love by publicly arguing on the boards all the time!!

:bananen_smilies046:

Just send PMs fellas....not that there is anything wrong with that!! :D

Wski Girl
04-25-2008, 12:00 PM
:lol:

chief31
04-25-2008, 01:40 PM
This may come as a bit of a surprise, but I would welcome the idea of trading Gonzo. Especially if it were to be for a first round pick. (Highly unlikely.)

Why make him stay on a loser? Herms five year plan has already started over once. I can't begin to imagine how many more times it will happen.

rbedgood
04-25-2008, 01:55 PM
This may come as a bit of a surprise, but I would welcome the idea of trading Gonzo. Especially if it were to be for a first round pick. (Highly unlikely.)

Why make him stay on a loser? Herms five year plan has already started over once. I can't begin to imagine how many more times it will happen.

Well said...if you could get a team like Seattle or New Orleans to give a mid-to-late 1st rounder up for the player that would throw them over the top it would make sense for both teams. The question is whether a TE (even one as good as Tony Gonzalez) would be enough for one of these types of teams. Most of the teams that I can think of that are close, need more help on defense than offense (New Orleans, Cincinnati, Washington, Detroit, & Arizona), a few already have solid TEs and problems are elsewhere (San Diego, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Cleveland, Indy, & Jacksonville)...the top candidates of teams that Tony Gonzalez could throw to the top IMO are...NY Jets, Carolina, Tennessee, & Seattle...

The only team I'd see really making a good offer for the Chiefs might be Tennessee as Vince Young could really use a veteran receiving threat...however at least one of their TEs are okay (Scaife) so the likelihood is doubtful

hermhater
04-25-2008, 04:19 PM
im still convinced Tony is good for the team and we should keep him:D

:sign0098:


Just send PMs fellas....not that there is anything wrong with that!! :D

:mob:


This may come as a bit of a surprise, but I would welcome the idea of trading Gonzo. Especially if it were to be for a first round pick. (Highly unlikely.)

Why make him stay on a loser? Herms five year plan has already started over once. I can't begin to imagine how many more times it will happen.

I don't trust the coaching staff to develop our young guys without veteran leadership.

Tony is the only one we have left to do that.

Herm definitely isn't going to inspire any of the offensive guys.


Well said...if you could get a team like Seattle or New Orleans to give a mid-to-late 1st rounder up for the player that would throw them over the top it would make sense for both teams. The question is whether a TE (even one as good as Tony Gonzalez) would be enough for one of these types of teams. Most of the teams that I can think of that are close, need more help on defense than offense (New Orleans, Cincinnati, Washington, Detroit, & Arizona), a few already have solid TEs and problems are elsewhere (San Diego, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Cleveland, Indy, & Jacksonville)...the top candidates of teams that Tony Gonzalez could throw to the top IMO are...NY Jets, Carolina, Tennessee, & Seattle...

The only team I'd see really making a good offer for the Chiefs might be Tennessee as Vince Young could really use a veteran receiving threat...however at least one of their TEs are okay (Scaife) so the likelihood is doubtful

That was not well said, you guys are turning to the Dark Side I see...

:beer: