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View Full Version : slight overreaction i think...(long)



texaschief
04-30-2007, 04:06 AM
Since it ultimately comes down to C.P. calling the shots, you have to place any blame on him as far as personel go. That said, this draft for the Chiefs was great in the first day. for all those who are crying about no stud O-Linemen, you'd have just as many complaining about our D-line or WR corp if they hadn't taken Bowe.

The kid from Tennessee might have been a reach, but obviously they weren't the only ones thinking the kid could play. K.C. was looking to trade up to get him fearing he may not be there at 54. When it comes to drafting defenders, i trust Herm and his personel staff. they did a great job last year and there's no reason to think he made a defensive mistake this year. He may be a "tweener", but so is Tamba Hali. Everyone said he was too big/slow for DE, but the guy ended with more sacks than the #1 pick Mario Williams. The Chiefs also got tremendous value with "Tank". I was praying they'd land this guy. when the Chiefs passed on him, i didn't think there was anyway he'd still be there in the 3rd. He fell due to "character issues" but was projected as a late first/ early 2nd guy. Our D-line is taken care of for the next decade.

True, we didn't get a young corner, but Ty Law and Pat Surtain aren't horrible yet. they have another year or two left before thier situation gets critical.If we played a man defense, i'd worry a little more. but, these guys play in a zone with huge help over the top. that more than makes up for the step lost due to age. Plus, we did draft Maxey last year, so we have one young guy with a year under his belt already. Don't sleep on him, he may push to start this year. That may be why they were only looking at drafting one CB this year anyway.

Obviously our LB's and Safetys are a position of strength for the next 5 to 10 years, so really, we just need a FA CB or to draft one next year. We also could probably get another DE in FA or the draft. I doubt Allen will stay. So, really, our defense is set for a while outside those 2 or 3 positions.

Offensively, yeah, we've had two hall-of-famers retire. But truly, how many clubs can really say that they've had guys on their line worthy of Canton? As our line stands, it's pretty solid. Casey Wiegman hasn't retired yet and probably won't. He would've done it already. Waters is still there at guard(Pro Bowler). Welborne is returning to his natural position at guard. Which i still think could be a push, if not an upgrade over an old Shields. At OT, we've got two vets who can play. McIntosh is no slouch. Terry was on track to being a pro bowler before his issues sidelined him. I think people forget we got another young rookie FA tackle before the draft ever started. Ramiro Pruneda has a lot of fan fare behind him from Mexico. I don't think this kid should be taken lightly either.

We as fans may not see everything we want to see, but i think this draft helped the team more than most people believe. The backup RB from Louisville is a player. At 6ft, this guy looks a lot like LJ back there. he's not as big up top, but is just as fast and can make an ankle breaking move to get free. Obviously, we needed a kicker...not sure why we didn't take Crosby, but hey, we got a kicker....the first one taken i might add.

I just think we might be overreacting a little to the talent we do or don't have on this team. I for one am really disappointed with the amount of picks we ended up with. i was hoping to trade away Wesley, Green and maybe LJ if the right trade came along. but, we've got what we've got. For the up coming season, our defense is a top 10 defense and needs to play like it. Give Brodie the ball and let him throw it up to Bowe, Webb, and Gonzo and see how much that opens up the run game.

Like i said, our O-Line doesn't need to be stacked with future hall of famers to be productive. Out of the guys competing for the 2 tackle spots, we've only seen one of them actually play (Sampson). McIntosh, Terry, Pruneda, and Herbert Taylor are new to Chiefs fans. What makes you think these guys can't handle thier position? Is it "analysis" from the sports writers of the AP that makes you feel like our OL is crap or what? The line is solid guys!!! Especially up the middle.

If you need to worry about something this year, worry about the QB position. We will be the only team in the division without a first round pick as our QB. Too bad Quinn couldn't fall just one more spot.

Relax guys. we weren't going to make the playoffs this year anyway. The front office should use this year to figure out what they need to adress in FA and the draft to make a deep run in 08. We can look foward to a bunch of INTs for our QB of the future. But as long as he learns and adjusts for the 08 season, we should be happy with whatever the chiefs do this year.

Chiefster
04-30-2007, 09:44 AM
Hmmmmm, not sure exactly why we needed another kicker, we had just signed another kicker before the draft started. Worry over the QB position was why I was concerned about the "O" line in the first place, and I have never viewed the 07 season as anything but a rebuilding year.

Nice positive spin on this year's draft, and a good read.

kenny1937
04-30-2007, 03:02 PM
Hmmmmm, not sure exactly why we needed another kicker, we had just signed another kicker before the draft started. Worry over the QB position was why I was concerned about the "O" line in the first place, and I have never viewed the 07 season as anything but a rebuilding year.

Nice positive spin on this year's draft, and a good read.


I think that we are an "old" team, and rebuilding is going to take time, in MHO a team the reloads, insteads of continually "rebuilds" is going to be more apt to go deep into the playoffs and reach the SuperBowl than a team that is rebuilding an aging team, but that is just me.

:character0011: I will have you to know that "Rebuild" is my middle name, Sir!!

texaschief
04-30-2007, 05:42 PM
I think that we are an "old" team, and rebuilding is going to take time, in MHO a team the reloads, insteads of continually "rebuilds" is going to be more apt to go deep into the playoffs and reach the SuperBowl than a team that is rebuilding an aging team, but that is just me.

:character0011: I will have you to know that "Rebuild" is my middle name, Sir!!


Not in the AFC. Look at these teams that are becoming powerhouses in this conference. They aren't doing it through FA. You can't. FAs cost too much money to do it that way. As a franchise, you need to bite the bullet of a couple losing seasons to get to where you want to be.

The Chargers, Colts, Steelers, Ravens, and until this season, the Patriots have built a foundation through the draft so that the Free Agents they do aquire make more of an impact. You can't sign FAs to plug holes just to bring your team to par. They need to be impact players to take the team to the next level.

As an example, if Ryan Sims was an all pro like he should've been, we could've spent more money on a better outside linebacker like Adalius Thomas instead of bringing in an old Edwards and sub-all pro DTs. Then, we could be looking at an offensive lineman or CB in the 2nd or 3rd round instead of back to back DL.

chief31
04-30-2007, 07:21 PM
Since it ultimately comes down to C.P. calling the shots, you have to place any blame on him as far as personel go. That said, this draft for the Chiefs was great in the first day. for all those who are crying about no stud O-Linemen, you'd have just as many complaining about our D-line or WR corp if they hadn't taken Bowe.

The kid from Tennessee might have been a reach, but obviously they weren't the only ones thinking the kid could play. K.C. was looking to trade up to get him fearing he may not be there at 54. When it comes to drafting defenders, i trust Herm and his personel staff. they did a great job last year and there's no reason to think he made a defensive mistake this year. He may be a "tweener", but so is Tamba Hali. Everyone said he was too big/slow for DE, but the guy ended with more sacks than the #1 pick Mario Williams. The Chiefs also got tremendous value with "Tank". I was praying they'd land this guy. when the Chiefs passed on him, i didn't think there was anyway he'd still be there in the 3rd. He fell due to "character issues" but was projected as a late first/ early 2nd guy. Our D-line is taken care of for the next decade.

True, we didn't get a young corner, but Ty Law and Pat Surtain aren't horrible yet. they have another year or two left before thier situation gets critical.If we played a man defense, i'd worry a little more. but, these guys play in a zone with huge help over the top. that more than makes up for the step lost due to age. Plus, we did draft Maxey last year, so we have one young guy with a year under his belt already. Don't sleep on him, he may push to start this year. That may be why they were only looking at drafting one CB this year anyway.

Obviously our LB's and Safetys are a position of strength for the next 5 to 10 years, so really, we just need a FA CB or to draft one next year. We also could probably get another DE in FA or the draft. I doubt Allen will stay. So, really, our defense is set for a while outside those 2 or 3 positions.

Offensively, yeah, we've had two hall-of-famers retire. But truly, how many clubs can really say that they've had guys on their line worthy of Canton? As our line stands, it's pretty solid. Casey Wiegman hasn't retired yet and probably won't. He would've done it already. Waters is still there at guard(Pro Bowler). Welborne is returning to his natural position at guard. Which i still think could be a push, if not an upgrade over an old Shields. At OT, we've got two vets who can play. McIntosh is no slouch. Terry was on track to being a pro bowler before his issues sidelined him. I think people forget we got another young rookie FA tackle before the draft ever started. Ramiro Pruneda has a lot of fan fare behind him from Mexico. I don't think this kid should be taken lightly either.

We as fans may not see everything we want to see, but i think this draft helped the team more than most people believe. The backup RB from Louisville is a player. At 6ft, this guy looks a lot like LJ back there. he's not as big up top, but is just as fast and can make an ankle breaking move to get free. Obviously, we needed a kicker...not sure why we didn't take Crosby, but hey, we got a kicker....the first one taken i might add.

I just think we might be overreacting a little to the talent we do or don't have on this team. I for one am really disappointed with the amount of picks we ended up with. i was hoping to trade away Wesley, Green and maybe LJ if the right trade came along. but, we've got what we've got. For the up coming season, our defense is a top 10 defense and needs to play like it. Give Brodie the ball and let him throw it up to Bowe, Webb, and Gonzo and see how much that opens up the run game.

Like i said, our O-Line doesn't need to be stacked with future hall of famers to be productive. Out of the guys competing for the 2 tackle spots, we've only seen one of them actually play (Sampson). McIntosh, Terry, Pruneda, and Herbert Taylor are new to Chiefs fans. What makes you think these guys can't handle thier position? Is it "analysis" from the sports writers of the AP that makes you feel like our OL is crap or what? The line is solid guys!!! Especially up the middle.

If you need to worry about something this year, worry about the QB position. We will be the only team in the division without a first round pick as our QB. Too bad Quinn couldn't fall just one more spot.

Relax guys. we weren't going to make the playoffs this year anyway. The front office should use this year to figure out what they need to adress in FA and the draft to make a deep run in 08. We can look foward to a bunch of INTs for our QB of the future. But as long as he learns and adjusts for the 08 season, we should be happy with whatever the chiefs do this year.


Rather you have ever noticed, or not, Miami Dolphins and Carolina Panthers games, both, get televised, nationally. I have watched three Dolphins games, since the season ended. (Thanks to my beloved NFL Network.) I base my opinion of Macintosh, on what I have seen, myself. He is, what I would call, top-heavy. In the three games, that I have watched, I saw him fall down three times. This si not being shoved off-balance, it is falling down. When he runs, he has ahard time keeping his feet under him. He gave up two sacks, in against single man pass blocking. Other sacks from that side, could have been blamed on his failure, or mis-communication. It's not that he is horrible, just that he is below-average. This is our starting LT, below average.

As for Terry, he did use to be, a pretty decent OT. Kyle Turley used to be a MONSTER. How did that work out? Used-to-bes and who-is-hes, are what the Chiefs are giving us, at the offensive tackle positions.

As far as trusting the Chiefs organization, along with Herm, when they tell me that they have the talent in place, do you remember them saying that Kyle Turley was throwing guys around, in training camp last season? I was there. While he didn't look bad,( he wasn't being challenged) but, he wasn't throwing anyone anywhere.

Would you expect the Chiefs to tell us that they expect to be awefull? Do you think that they would want you to know, that they don't expect to be a winning team? Hunh-unh. No matter what they put on the field, they will want you to believe that you are buying tickets, to see a winner.

Kevin Sampson. I like him. He isn't an absolute stud, but he is a decent RT, when he is healthy. Unfortunately, he hasn't been healthy, at all.

The fact that I have never seen the big mexican guy play, is not a reassuring one. It sounds like a very long shot.

My whole problem with this draft, revolves around the fact that the O-line was, essentially, ignored, again. You said that ultimately, it comes down to being C.P.s call. Unfortunately, he does what his head coach wants him to do. In the rare event that he goes against his head coach, we tend to hear about it. Therefore, I look at Herm, becuase I know he got the guys he wanted.

Yahoo gives us a B? I have a hard time giving us a D. You don't like my opinion, or my "negativity"? You have my apology. Not my regret. I may wind-up liking some of the guys that we have drafted. I like Pollard and Hali. however, I will never like the fact that my team ignored their offensive line.

chief31
04-30-2007, 07:40 PM
we should be happy with whatever the chiefs do this year.


Not interested, but you go ahead and have a good time with that, o.k.?

By the way, I hope you don't take anything I say as any kind of attack. I welcome you to accept, happily, whatever the Chiefs throw you. I, however, will accept it, in a slightly more disgruntled manor.

Chiefster
04-30-2007, 07:52 PM
Not interested, but you go ahead and have a good time with that, o.k.?

By the way, I hope you don't take anything I say as any kind of attack. I welcome you to accept, happily, whatever the Chiefs throw you. I, however, will accept it, in a slightly more disgruntled manor.


You should be more positive; like me! :D

chief31
04-30-2007, 08:01 PM
You should be more positive; like me! :D

As unbelievable as it may sound, I am not a grumpy guy. I have a good time, every day, no matter what happens. I keep my stress level low. Yet, somehow,(and I can see it in my own posts) I come of as grumpy and miserable. I think that if I were here, when D.V.s Chiefs were playing, you would have seen a more optimistic Chief31.

Chiefster
04-30-2007, 08:07 PM
As unbelievable as it may sound, I am not a grumpy guy. I have a good time, every day, no matter what happens. I keep my stress level low. Yet, somehow,(and I can see it in my own posts) I come of as grumpy and miserable. I think that if I were here, when D.V.s Chiefs were playing, you would have seen a more optimistic Chief31.

LOL!! I'm the same way.

texaschief
05-01-2007, 04:46 AM
As unbelievable as it may sound, I am not a grumpy guy. I have a good time, every day, no matter what happens. I keep my stress level low. Yet, somehow,(and I can see it in my own posts) I come of as grumpy and miserable. I think that if I were here, when D.V.s Chiefs were playing, you would have seen a more optimistic Chief31.

Responding to a previous message you left me, i don't take the things people say on this message board as an attack. Just as i hope you don't take the things i say as an attack.

That said, this is the problem with sports fans and Chiefs fans in particular. Do you want entertainment or a Championship? Right now, if I'm Carl, i see the people in K.C. were thrilled with the high flying offense that amassed no playoff victories. These are the ones who keep buying season tickets to see an average team year after year after year with this melo drama of "retooling" after every season. So, what do i do to keep the mob happy? I draft a big time WR with my first pick instead of a defender who i know will help win a title. Big WR = More offense = excited fans

Why would ANYONE have been optomistic about our chances during the Vermiel era? While the guy won a title in St. Louis with a version of the same offense, the Rams didn't have the worst defense in THE NFL!!! It doesn't matter how good your offense is, DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Lets look at the two Super Bowl reps this year. The coaches are essentially the same as Herm Edwards. They came from the same system out of Tampa and run the same defenses. Chicago Built thier team through the defense. they patched an offense together with a QB who couldn't start anywhere else in the league and won the NFC Championship. But, the Chicago team didn't spring up over night. Lovie has been in Chicago for a few seasons building that defense.

The Colts on the other hand had Peyton Manning. Thier offensive line isn't stacked with Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers. They have an average offensive line. The difference is, they have a QB who can recognize blitzes and keeps defenses off balance. How many sacks do you see Peyton taking? How many times do you see him on the ground for that matter? Peyton is smart enough not to put himself in position to end up like Green.

This B.S. about the offensive line is rediculous! Is it the ideal situation? No. But you can't keep blaming the offensive line for losses. they weren't that bad last year (1700+ rushing yards) and you haven't even seen a snap this year.

At some point fans should quit *****ing about what they don't have and look at what they do have...an above average line personel wise that may need some time to play together and feel comfortable with the system. If we had taken an OT instead in the first, we would probably be hearing the same crap about how poor our recieving corp is. How "our entire season will go down the drain because we have no recievers to give Gonzo a break."

Figure it out... we don't have an offensive juggernaut anymore. we have an offense that will score just enough to win the game after our defense stiffles the other team for four quarters. oh wait...."our corners are old and filed for social security last season." There goes that theory.

People, a championship team takes a couple years to build. I hate seeing C.P. in that front office as much as the next guy. He has proven he can sell tickets. THAT IS HIS JOB! HE'S GOOD AT IT. Until Chiefs fans quit calling for help in the form of free agents and offensive players, Carl is just going to keep trotting out that average team year in and year out for the next 20 years as long as you people buy tickets.

We as a fan base should've been crying for Carl to trade away Larry Johnson, Trent Green, Tony Gonzales, and any other high priced vet on this team in exchange for more draft picks. If we REALLY WANT a championship team, we stop signing RBs for 8 yrs 80 million. We stop signing old TEs to new expensive contracts. we stop acting like our 40 yr old QB is family. This is a business. to build a champion, you need draft picks. but guess what, those picks aren't free. you have to give up value to recieve it. I realize these players are our "super stars" but apparently, we need an offensive line more importantly. according to some people, anyone could throw and run behind a "great" offensive line, so we don't need those stars anyway.

It all comes down to ENTERTAINMENT vs. CHAMPIONSHIPS

Which do you want?

"Give them thier bread and circuses"

Chiefster
05-01-2007, 05:30 AM
Responding to a previous message you left me, i don't take the things people say on this message board as an attack. Just as i hope you don't take the things i say as an attack.

That said, this is the problem with sports fans and Chiefs fans in particular....


Oddly enough I agree with most of what you're saying; overlooking the need for a quality offensive line is a mistake IMO. The problem I have with CP is that he's had nearly twenty years to get a balanced teem, meaning a good offense and defense, reference New England. Had CP been employed by any other team in the NFL I am convinced that he would have seen his pink slip years ago.

TheLateGreat#58Fan
05-01-2007, 10:47 AM
After texaschiefs last message I think i said "AMEN" outloud. I have a question for some of you long long time KC fans that live in KC what was the fan turn out like in the mid and early 80's? i have been following since about 89-but it seems like no matter what we=chiefs fan will turn out no matter what. It is a fact that Carl Peterson has the inability to build a team with any sort of balance. And he would have been letgo in any other city, there is alot of loyalty in the KC orgnaization. The question is has the Hunt families opinion of success and loyalty change with the passing of Lamar. Are they going to make a change at GM obviously Peterson has been given a heck of a window to succeed. It is the defention of insanity leaving him in there and expecting a new outcome
What I wouldnt give to see my KC Chiefs in the big lights of the Super Bowl, the idea itself makes me smile

Chiefster
05-01-2007, 01:28 PM
After texaschiefs last message I think i said "AMEN" outloud. I have a question for some of you long long time KC fans that live in KC what was the fan turn out like in the mid and early 80's? i have been following since about 89-but it seems like no matter what we=chiefs fan will turn out no matter what. It is a fact that Carl Peterson has the inability to build a team with any sort of balance. And he would have been letgo in any other city, there is alot of loyalty in the KC orgnaization. The question is has the Hunt families opinion of success and loyalty change with the passing of Lamar. Are they going to make a change at GM obviously Peterson has been given a heck of a window to succeed. It is the defention of insanity leaving him in there and expecting a new outcome
What I wouldnt give to see my KC Chiefs in the big lights of the Super Bowl, the idea itself makes me smile


AMEN!!

texaschief
05-01-2007, 04:38 PM
overlooking the need for a quality offensive line is a mistake IMO.

i agreee. WHOLE HEARTEDLY, i agree. i believe you build a team from the inside out and you start with the offensive line. I'm just saying i think some people might be overreacting to our offensive line. It's not like these guys are a bunch of second and third teamers. McIintosh has been a vet starter. Terry (if he plays) has been a starter. Welbourn has been a starter and was worth a 3rd rd. pick. Waters is pro bowler. Wiegman should've been a pro bowler. Dunn is probably the best blocking TE in the game and could probably be moved to OT in a pinch. Gonzo is obviously one of the top 3 TEs in the league and has been to several pro bowls.

Are you kidding me? Compare this line to others around the league and then tell me this line is below average. As long as our O-line isn't in the bottom third of the league, our offense is good enough to support the defense. The OT we drafted will probably be moved to guard in a couple years and our 2nd guard will have a couple years experience and can step in to contribute. Does anyone remember what position Waters played when we drafted him?... That's right, TE. he added a couple pounds and became a pro bowl guard. Don't forget we also drafted a guard last year.

People who understand how to win in this league are praising Herm for what he's done with our defense. Our front 7 will be dominant. our safetys are going to stun! but, because they usually play in a zone, they can help out our "old corners."

Trust me, i'm no C.P. appologist, but with a new coach who knows what he's doing and how to build a winner, the team has taken steps toward competing in the division as well as the conference for the next decade.

So, the Chiefs didn't do what the talking heads said they should have...so what? Think for yourself and realize that a championship team starts with defense. We have a really young one with a couple vet leaders and the potential to be REALLY GOOD.

Our offense is just gravy at this point. We happen to be in a pretty good situation with a franchise RB, TE, a solid #2 WR and a QB of the future to go along with a vet line who can hold down the fort until the opportunity presents itself for an upgrade.

This year will be rough and our O-line wont be what it was earlier this decade, but to tell you the truth, 2008 is looking real promising.

wolfpack
05-01-2007, 05:32 PM
give me our offense of vermil and middle of the pack defense and we would have went places. hermmie offense scored 8 count them 8 points their last game. didnt get a first down till the 3rd quarter, thats just plain gut wrenching sick. as far as building a winner, not without a attacking offense. maybe thats why hermmie got kicked out of new york. we have three kickers on the roster now, hermmie dream.

Chiefster
05-01-2007, 08:25 PM
i agreee. WHOLE HEARTEDLY, i agree. i believe you build a team from the inside out and you start with the offensive line. I'm just saying i think some people might be overreacting to our offensive line. It's not like these guys are a bunch of second and third teamers. McIintosh has been a vet starter. Terry (if he plays) has been a starter. Welbourn has been a starter and was worth a 3rd rd. pick. Waters is pro bowler. Wiegman should've been a pro bowler. Dunn is probably the best blocking TE in the game and could probably be moved to OT in a pinch. Gonzo is obviously one of the top 3 TEs in the league and has been to several pro bowls.

Are you kidding me? Compare this line to others around the league and then tell me this line is below average. As long as our O-line isn't in the bottom third of the league, our offense is good enough to support the defense. The OT we drafted will probably be moved to guard in a couple years and our 2nd guard will have a couple years experience and can step in to contribute. Does anyone remember what position Waters played when we drafted him?... That's right, TE. he added a couple pounds and became a pro bowl guard. Don't forget we also drafted a guard last year.

People who understand how to win in this league are praising Herm for what he's done with our defense. Our front 7 will be dominant. our safetys are going to stun! but, because they usually play in a zone, they can help out our "old corners."

Trust me, i'm no C.P. appologist, but with a new coach who knows what he's doing and how to build a winner, the team has taken steps toward competing in the division as well as the conference for the next decade.

So, the Chiefs didn't do what the talking heads said they should have...so what? Think for yourself and realize that a championship team starts with defense. We have a really young one with a couple vet leaders and the potential to be REALLY GOOD.

Our offense is just gravy at this point. We happen to be in a pretty good situation with a franchise RB, TE, a solid #2 WR and a QB of the future to go along with a vet line who can hold down the fort until the opportunity presents itself for an upgrade.

This year will be rough and our O-line wont be what it was earlier this decade, but to tell you the truth, 2008 is looking real promising.

Agreed! Good post.

Chiefster
05-01-2007, 09:16 PM
give me our offense of vermil and middle of the pack defense and we would have went places. hermmie offense scored 8 count them 8 points their last game. didnt get a first down till the 3rd quarter, thats just plain gut wrenching sick. as far as building a winner, not without a attacking offense. maybe thats why hermmie got kicked out of new york. we have three kickers on the roster now, hermmie dream.


Well I've said it before and it bears repeating here; there's a reason why the Jets let him go for a fourth round pick.

Coach
05-01-2007, 09:59 PM
Well I've said it before and it bears repeating here; there's a reason why the Jets let him go for a fourth round pick.

Did the Chiefs make the playoffs last year?

Chiefster
05-01-2007, 10:29 PM
Did the Chiefs make the playoffs last year?

Yup, but I don't think his "I don't care [about offense]" attitude went over very well there in New York.

Good point though.

Coach
05-01-2007, 10:31 PM
I don't remember any playoff wins under almighty Vermeil. Let's give Hermie a shot.

Chiefster
05-01-2007, 10:37 PM
I don't remember any playoff wins under almighty Vermeil. Let's give Hermie a shot.


True; but it wasn't for a lack of offense. LOL!!! I will give Hermie a shot; I have little choice - I'm a Chiefs fan.

GO CHIEFS!!!

wolfpack
05-01-2007, 11:31 PM
backing in to the playoffs and then 1 and out to me isnt any better than just missing them.

Coach
05-01-2007, 11:36 PM
backing in to the playoffs and then 1 and out to me isnt any better than just missing them.

At least they had a shot to win a playoff game. rather than watching it from their couch as they have done in years past.

wolfpack
05-01-2007, 11:42 PM
they will never go to the super bowl with defense. take away the ravens super bowl and you dont have a team without a top 10 offense. hermmie cant build one of those.

texaschief
05-02-2007, 02:30 AM
they will never go to the super bowl with defense. take away the ravens super bowl and you dont have a team without a top 10 offense. hermmie cant build one of those.


uhhh...what? You really think you have a good grasp on what Herm can and can't do based on his 6 year/4 QB-less career in NY? wow.

his first 3 years with a new organization, he's taken them to the playoffs. the guy has been to the post season 4 times in 6 years with 2 "count'em" 2 wins. twice, the guys has gone to the playoffs without a steady QB. Think he did that by a dominating offense or by building a winning defense? how many playoff wins did dickie have in 5 years here? lets compare after Herm has been here for 5 seasons.

This guy is cut from the same mold as the two Super Bowl coaches from this year! Hell, they're best friends! What exactly makes you think he can't build a good defense? HE WAS A DEFENSIVE PERSONEL SCOUT for god sake!! He's only come in and added a pro bowl CB, LB, future Pro Bowl MLB, DE, and dual safeties. Not to mention bringing in productive DTs. The guy's draft last year was the best draft this franchise has seen....EVER! you tellin me ol' dick did a better job? Herm drafted better in one draft than dick did in 4.

I'm pretty sure the Patriots didn't have a top 10 offense a couple of those years they won the SB also.

Hey, I've got a great idea!! Let's fire Herm, who's never really established himself in this league, but has made the playoffs 4x in 6 years without a real QB, and hire Bill Cower! Now THIS is a coach! I'm suprised he can even raise his arms from all the Super Bowls he's won! Almost 20 years with the Steelers!! he just built Super Bowl champ after champ after champ! That's not even counting how many he went to and lost. I'm suprised the guy isn't in Canton already!!

Get real.

Chiefster
05-02-2007, 05:31 AM
LOL!! I love this thread.

TheLateGreat#58Fan
05-02-2007, 10:18 AM
Texas chief came out guns blazin:para: Atleast looking at teams that made it to or won a super bowl on defense, last years Bears-old Giants teams- tampa bay from a few years ago. But lets remember we're all friends here lol. Herm can build a defense no question, but whne it comes down to it we gotta give himtime. Bill Cowher is a great coach super bowl or not, but it did take him forever and some thought he would never win one. It seems to be like Herm has as good a chance as anybody. Tony Dungy isa great coach also- no super bowl for him without Peyton-theres just alot of pieces. I like Herm, better then Dick- you cant ignore the other side of the ball- like the Chiefs did while Vermeil was here. As long as we continue to dominate at home we have as good a chance as the next guy.
Go KC

wolfpack
05-02-2007, 06:24 PM
why was hermmie run out of new york? dickie just got to old and stubborn to change. it was time to get rid of him. the true root of the problem really begins with the hunts. they are the ones that can fire queen carl. but he fills the seats and their pocket books. but back to hermmie and dickie, hermmie is the same as dickie was. the difference is hermmie wants defense and dickie wanted offense. hermmie wants young guns,dickie like older players.

Chiefster
05-02-2007, 06:41 PM
Texas chief came out guns blazin:para: Atleast looking at teams that made it to or won a super bowl on defense, last years Bears-old Giants teams- tampa bay from a few years ago. But lets remember we're all friends here lol. Herm can build a defense no question, but whne it comes down to it we gotta give himtime. Bill Cowher is a great coach super bowl or not, but it did take him forever and some thought he would never win one. It seems to be like Herm has as good a chance as anybody. Tony Dungy isa great coach also- no super bowl for him without Peyton-theres just alot of pieces. I like Herm, better then Dick- you cant ignore the other side of the ball- like the Chiefs did while Vermeil was here. As long as we continue to dominate at home we have as good a chance as the next guy.
Go KC

Agreed, you can't ignore either side of the ball; balance is the key. :)

chief31
05-03-2007, 02:12 PM
uhhh...what? You really think you have a good grasp on what Herm can and can't do based on his 6 year/4 QB-less career in NY? wow.

his first 3 years with a new organization, he's taken them to the playoffs. the guy has been to the post season 4 times in 6 years with 2 "count'em" 2 wins. twice, the guys has gone to the playoffs without a steady QB. Think he did that by a dominating offense or by building a winning defense? how many playoff wins did dickie have in 5 years here? lets compare after Herm has been here for 5 seasons.

This guy is cut from the same mold as the two Super Bowl coaches from this year! Hell, they're best friends! What exactly makes you think he can't build a good defense? HE WAS A DEFENSIVE PERSONEL SCOUT for god sake!! He's only come in and added a pro bowl CB, LB, future Pro Bowl MLB, DE, and dual safeties. Not to mention bringing in productive DTs. The guy's draft last year was the best draft this franchise has seen....EVER! you tellin me ol' dick did a better job? Herm drafted better in one draft than dick did in 4.

I'm pretty sure the Patriots didn't have a top 10 offense a couple of those years they won the SB also.

Hey, I've got a great idea!! Let's fire Herm, who's never really established himself in this league, but has made the playoffs 4x in 6 years without a real QB, and hire Bill Cower! Now THIS is a coach! I'm suprised he can even raise his arms from all the Super Bowls he's won! Almost 20 years with the Steelers!! he just built Super Bowl champ after champ after champ! That's not even counting how many he went to and lost. I'm suprised the guy isn't in Canton already!!

Get real.

I think we all agree that Herm can build a good defense. Although, there is no reason to believe that he can build a "Cowher-esque" defense. Since and including '01, no Steeler team has finished below 9th, in yards allowed. (Nor has any Steeler offense finished below 16th, in offensive yards from scrimmage.) Meanwhile, only one Herm Edwards defense has finished higher than 12th, in yards allowed. Never, has a Herm defense finished ahead of a Cowher defense, in that statistic.

It is the Herm Edwards offense that is a problem. Since and including '01, his Jets teams have finished; 24th; 22nd; 19th; 12th; and 31st in offensive yards from scrimmage. That means that only one Herm offense has ever finished ahead of, even, a Cowher offense.)

I noticed that you like to blame Chad pennington for that. I'd like to say something in Chads defense. Had Herm shown any interest in suppliing him with, even, average pass protectors, perhaps Chad would have been able to play a full season for him. Also, maybe, without a reconstructed shoulder, he could have continued to put up numbers, like he did in '02. (68.9 comp. pct.; 22-6 TD-Ints; with a 104.2 QB Rating.)

In his carreer, Herm has drafted one O-linman, higher than the last pick, in the fourth round. (OT Kareem McKenzie, 2001 draft, now of the N.Y. Giants.) In his final draft, with the N.Y.Jets, he failed to draft one offensive lineman, well after the need made itself obvious.

You can stand up for him, all you like. But, it makes no sense, to rip two coaches, who have shown the ability to create dominant football teams. (Also, who have each been to the super bowl and won.)

chief31
05-03-2007, 02:16 PM
why was hermmie run out of new york? dickie just got to old and stubborn to change. it was time to get rid of him. the true root of the problem really begins with the hunts. they are the ones that can fire queen carl. but he fills the seats and their pocket books. but back to hermmie and dickie, hermmie is the same as dickie was. the difference is hermmie wants defense and dickie wanted offense. hermmie wants young guns,dickie like older players.


If Dick had chosen to coach another year, he would have stayed in K.C. He made that choice. I will grant, that he was too loyal to his guys, but noone told him to leave.

texaschief
05-03-2007, 02:47 PM
I noticed that you like to blame Chad pennington for that. I'd like to say something in Chads defense. Had Herm shown any interest in suppliing him with, even, average pass protectors, perhaps Chad would have been able to play a full season for him. Also, maybe, without a reconstructed shoulder, he could have continued to put up numbers, like he did in '02. (68.9 comp. pct.; 22-6 TD-Ints; with a 104.2 QB Rating.)

You can stand up for him, all you like. But, it makes no sense, to rip two coaches, who have shown the ability to create dominant football teams. (Also, who have each been to the super bowl and won.)

if chad pennington were a boxer, he'd be labeled with having a "glass jaw." The guy gets hurt if he's sneezed on.

I'm sorry. what steeler team has EVER been dominant? they year they won the S.B., they were a 6 seed. K.C. had the same record but lost out in tie-breakers....oh, by the way, that was with old dickie at the helm. when did K.C. ever have a dominant team with Vermiel? OH yeah, never. Vermiel didn't have a dominant team in St. Louis either. Everybody who played them tried to score with them...and he was playing in the JV league. He brought that same high-powered offense to the AFC and all it got him was a first round bye after a powder puff regular season schedule. Our Chiefs team was so good, that after only being stopped one time during the whole game, they were outscored at home....you're right. dominant.

But, you know what? you put us in a division where we have to play the jets, dolphins, and bills 2x a year which could easily give you 6 wins, we could be make the playoffs each year too. Put us in with the texans, jags, and titans, and we could be there just like the colts are. it just gets me pissed thinking what we could do in the NFC. Some of our teams were better than thier final outcome indidcated. We just reside in the toughest division in football that requires being an elite team just to get to the playoffs.

chief31
05-03-2007, 03:12 PM
Texas chief came out guns blazin:para: Atleast looking at teams that made it to or won a super bowl on defense, last years Bears-old Giants teams- tampa bay from a few years ago. But lets remember we're all friends here lol. Herm can build a defense no question, but whne it comes down to it we gotta give himtime. Bill Cowher is a great coach super bowl or not, but it did take him forever and some thought he would never win one. It seems to be like Herm has as good a chance as anybody. Tony Dungy isa great coach also- no super bowl for him without Peyton-theres just alot of pieces. I like Herm, better then Dick- you cant ignore the other side of the ball- like the Chiefs did while Vermeil was here. As long as we continue to dominate at home we have as good a chance as the next guy.
Go KC

I think that the word ignore is incorrect. He was trying, it just didn't work out, for him. In his final four darfts, as Chiefs head coach, the Chiefs took eight defensive players(Including the second rounder, that they traded for Patrick Surtain.). That's two first rounders, four second rounders and three third rounders, in four years. He simply wasn't good at it.

chief31
05-03-2007, 03:21 PM
if chad pennington were a boxer, he'd be labeled with having a "glass jaw." The guy gets hurt if he's sneezed on.

I'm sorry. what steeler team has EVER been dominant? they year they won the S.B., they were a 6 seed. K.C. had the same record but lost out in tie-breakers....oh, by the way, that was with old dickie at the helm. when did K.C. ever have a dominant team with Vermiel? OH yeah, never. Vermiel didn't have a dominant team in St. Louis either. Everybody who played them tried to score with them...and he was playing in the JV league. He brought that same high-powered offense to the AFC and all it got him was a first round bye after a powder puff regular season schedule. Our Chiefs team was so good, that after only being stopped one time during the whole game, they were outscored at home....you're right. dominant.

But, you know what? you put us in a division where we have to play the jets, dolphins, and bills 2x a year which could easily give you 6 wins, we could be make the playoffs each year too. Put us in with the texans, jags, and titans, and we could be there just like the colts are. it just gets me pissed thinking what we could do in the NFC. Some of our teams were better than thier final outcome indidcated. We just reside in the toughest division in football that requires being an elite team just to get to the playoffs.

Pittsburgh Steelers, 2004. Kansas City Chiefs, 2005. The Rams weren't dominant? They had me fooled. Anyway, Herm must have sneaked in some form of dominance that slipped under the radr, then. Because I missed it. He had some above-average teams, was it one of those? What year did he win the super bowl? It must have been the year that he didn't go? How you can shove Herm down my throat, by tearing down a pair of super bowl champion coaches, seems a bit bizarre.

chief31
05-03-2007, 03:28 PM
if chad pennington were a boxer, he'd be labeled with having a "glass jaw." The guy gets hurt if he's sneezed on.

I'm sorry. what steeler team has EVER been dominant? they year they won the S.B., they were a 6 seed. K.C. had the same record but lost out in tie-breakers....oh, by the way, that was with old dickie at the helm. when did K.C. ever have a dominant team with Vermiel? OH yeah, never. Vermiel didn't have a dominant team in St. Louis either. Everybody who played them tried to score with them...and he was playing in the JV league. He brought that same high-powered offense to the AFC and all it got him was a first round bye after a powder puff regular season schedule. Our Chiefs team was so good, that after only being stopped one time during the whole game, they were outscored at home....you're right. dominant.

But, you know what? you put us in a division where we have to play the jets, dolphins, and bills 2x a year which could easily give you 6 wins, we could be make the playoffs each year too. Put us in with the texans, jags, and titans, and we could be there just like the colts are. it just gets me pissed thinking what we could do in the NFC. Some of our teams were better than thier final outcome indidcated. We just reside in the toughest division in football that requires being an elite team just to get to the playoffs.

Are you talking about last seasons Chiefs? Who did they beat? Oh, we did squeak out a home win, against the Chargers, another home win, against a back-up Seahawks team, oh, and one actually, impressive win, against Jacksonville. I would have to assume that you were talking about the Vermiel teams, then. In that case, I agree, we would have had a much better recoed, had we been playing in one of the "sissy" divisions. That's why I find some of D.V.s teams to have been "dominant". 13-3, in our division, is awefully damn good.

Chiefster
05-03-2007, 06:48 PM
...Good points all around; I like a good debate. :D

texaschief
05-03-2007, 09:08 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers, 2004. Kansas City Chiefs, 2005. (what?) The Rams weren't dominant? They had me fooled. Anyway, Herm must have sneaked in some form of dominance that slipped under the radr, then. Because I missed it. He had some above-average teams, was it one of those? What year did he win the super bowl? It must have been the year that he didn't go? How you can shove Herm down my throat, by tearing down a pair of super bowl champion coaches, seems a bit bizarre.

And no. the Rams weren't domint, they just scored a lot of points. guess you were fooled.

I've never said Herm Edwards had dominant teams. Infact, i think i've even stated he only had 2 playoff wins. I've only said the guy hasn't ever had a chance to establish himself in the league. His years with the Jets we was missing a QB half the time..whatever the reason. The guy just took us to the playoffs for the first time since '03 and i'm hear this cry for Bill Cohwer. The guy was at Pittsburgh for 20 years with some really good teams and only went to the show twice and won it once. Maybe that's the guy you truly want as a coach. Personally, I'd like a guy who doesn't have a proven track record of leading his team to only one super bowl win over a 2 decades. If making the playoffs is all you want, even you acknowledge that Herm can do that. So, really. According to your arguement, what's the difference? You know, besides the fact that we don't really know how high the cieling is on Edwards.

TheLateGreat#58Fan
05-03-2007, 10:58 PM
The great thing about football and especially the off season, is the never ending argument about things that you will never get hard stead fast answer. Before bill cowher won this super bowl there were many arguments about getting him out of town he cant win the big game, blah blah. and some of those 90's steeler teams had a ridiculous amount of talent. Chad Pennington is a little injury prone and doesnt have an arm what so ever. You cant compare to different orgnaizations, owners, GM's all these other things that go into the talent that shows up on the field. Our problem common denominator is a guy named Carl Peterson- there is a good chance that we may not win the big game with him in the Big House, but I hope I am wrong and we are about to see the promised land.
Then we will be free at last free at last thank god all mighty free at last
Amen

Chiefster
05-03-2007, 11:30 PM
The great thing about football and especially the off season, is the never ending argument about things that you will never get hard stead fast answer. Before bill cowher won this super bowl there were many arguments about getting him out of town he cant win the big game, blah blah. and some of those 90's steeler teams had a ridiculous amount of talent. Chad Pennington is a little injury prone and doesnt have an arm what so ever. You cant compare to different orgnaizations, owners, GM's all these other things that go into the talent that shows up on the field. Our problem common denominator is a guy named Carl Peterson- there is a good chance that we may not win the big game with him in the Big House, but I hope I am wrong and we are about to see the promised land.
Then we will be free at last free at last thank god all mighty free at last
Amen

Yup, and AMEN!!!!!!

chief31
05-04-2007, 10:11 AM
And no. the Rams weren't domint, they just scored a lot of points. guess you were fooled.

I've never said Herm Edwards had dominant teams. Infact, i think i've even stated he only had 2 playoff wins. I've only said the guy hasn't ever had a chance to establish himself in the league. His years with the Jets we was missing a QB half the time..whatever the reason. The guy just took us to the playoffs for the first time since '03 and i'm hear this cry for Bill Cohwer. The guy was at Pittsburgh for 20 years with some really good teams and only went to the show twice and won it once. Maybe that's the guy you truly want as a coach. Personally, I'd like a guy who doesn't have a proven track record of leading his team to only one super bowl win over a 2 decades. If making the playoffs is all you want, even you acknowledge that Herm can do that. So, really. According to your arguement, what's the difference? You know, besides the fact that we don't really know how high the cieling is on Edwards.

At the risk of being called for a "repost", my problem with Herm Edwards is his unwillingness to protect his quarterbacks, with talented O-linemen. He doesn't seem to take the positions seriously enough. Couple that with the fact that he announces his entire offensive philosphy (which is, essentially, to make his defense look good) to the entire league and you wind up with a predictable, low scoring offense.

As with most major sports, there are two, basic, goals, to ensure victory. Score points and keep your opponent from scoring. When you, specifically, choose to slow down your scoring, you have created a significant disadvantage, for your team. I believe that every offense, in the NFL, should aspire to score, with each possession. (with the "QB Kneel" exception)

As for the playoffs, you know, as well as the rest of us, that we didn't earn that playoff spot, so much as everybody else backed out of it. Whereas, in '05, the Chiefs earned a playoff spot, but too many other teams earned a spot, leaving us out. How did that playoff game go, anyway? Was it not the most embarrassing offensive showing that you have ever seen?

Anyway, I do have hope, that Herm may, eventually, "get it" on offense. Until he does, I will be one of many to critcize his efforts.

Show me that you take the offensive line seriously, and I will be there, to praise you, just the same.

kenny1937
05-04-2007, 11:47 AM
Winning teams are not tunneled visioned, they don't specialize one side of the game. Football is a team sport, which has specialized their offense and defense to the point that you have to consider all aspects of the game, not just one. to be sucessful you have to have a offense that scores points, and a defense that limits the other teams scoring. In the "olden days" most teams played both ways, and your qb actually called the game, but those days are gone forever, and today to get to the big show you have to have a good offense and defense, something our present management is not concerned about.

:violent-smiley-070: :sign0076: :guns6:

Chiefster
05-04-2007, 11:50 AM
At the risk of being called for a "repost", my problem with Herm Edwards is his unwillingness to protect his quarterbacks, with talented O-linemen. He doesn't seem to take the positions seriously enough. Couple that with the fact that he announces his entire offensive philosphy (which is, essentially, to make his defense look good) to the entire league and you wind up with a predictable, low scoring offense.

As with most major sports, there are two, basic, goals, to ensure victory. Score points and keep your opponent from scoring. When you, specifically, choose to slow down your scoring, you have created a significant disadvantage, for your team. I believe that every offense, in the NFL, should aspire to score, with each possession. (with the "QB Kneel" exception)

As for the playoffs, you know, as well as the rest of us, that we didn't earn that playoff spot, so much as everybody else backed out of it. Whereas, in '05, the Chiefs earned a playoff spot, but too many other teams earned a spot, leaving us out. How did that playoff game go, anyway? Was it not the most embarrassing offensive showing that you have ever seen?

Anyway, I do have hope, that Herm may, eventually, "get it" on offense. Until he does, I will be one of many to critcize his efforts.

Show me that you take the offensive line seriously, and I will be there, to praise you, just the same.


Great post, however, by the same token the same could be said of Dick Vermeil in association to the defensive line. Both sides of the argument are valid. I gave Vermeil a five year pass; it's only Edwards second season so I will withhold further judgment, but will be watching closely.

Chiefster
05-04-2007, 11:56 AM
Winning teams are not tunneled visioned, they don't specialize one side of the game. Football is a team sport, which has specialized their offense and defense to the point that you have to consider all aspects of the game, not just one. to be sucessful you have to have a offense that scores points, and a defense that limits the other teams scoring. In the "olden days" most teams played both ways, and your qb actually called the game, but those days are gone forever, and today to get to the big show you have to have a good offense and defense, something our present management is not concerned about.

:violent-smiley-070: :sign0076: :guns6:
I think most might contend that present management has never once been concerned with team balance.

texaschief
05-04-2007, 02:30 PM
At the risk of being called for a "repost", my problem with Herm Edwards is his unwillingness to protect his quarterbacks, with talented O-linemen. He doesn't seem to take the positions seriously enough. Couple that with the fact that he announces his entire offensive philosphy (which is, essentially, to make his defense look good) to the entire league and you wind up with a predictable, low scoring offense.

As for the playoffs, you know, as well as the rest of us, that we didn't earn that playoff spot, so much as everybody else backed out of it. Whereas, in '05, the Chiefs earned a playoff spot, but too many other teams earned a spot, leaving us out.

How did that playoff game go, anyway? Was it not the most embarrassing offensive showing that you have ever seen?



As for your first point, you've finally talked yourself into the official "i don't REALLY know what i'm talking about" situation.

This "horrible" line that you're saying is a model for what Herm will put on the field in K.C. consisted of: Kevin Mawae, C (Pro Bowler); Pete Kendall; (10 year starter); Jason Fibini, T; Kareem Mckenzie, T; Brandon Moore, OG; Brent Smith; OL.

I look at this list of players and imagine them as our O-line and want to puke. They've got one pro bowler and one other player of any recognition. You're right. A horrible line on paper. But, they worked as a unit and all were a part of an offensive line that paved the way for RB Curtis Martin to earn his first ever rushing title with 1,697yards. The unit also powered the Jets offense to finish third in the League in total rushing yards (2,388) and second in rushing first downs (135) The Jets 2004 rushing total (2,388) ranked second all-time in Club history while the teamsí rushing average (4.5) was tied for the second most in team annals.


This Jetsí offensive line racked up 482 total yards (229 rushing, 253 passing) in a Clubís 37-14 victory.
Helped RB Curtis Martin surpass the 1,000-yard mark on the season to become only the second back in NFL history to begin a career with 10 consecutive 1,000-yard seasons.

Paved the way for 305 yards of total offense, including RB Curtis Martinís sixth 100-yard rushing game of the season (28-119), in the game nine OT loss vs. BAL.

All members of the Jetsí first offensive line since 1975 to lead the way for two 100-yard rushers in the same game (RB Curtis Martin and LaMont Jordan) and helped total the most offensive yards, 472, since 2002 at MIA in the Monday Night Football victory.

With the bruising running back we've got, there's no reason to think an offensive line this "horrible" couldn't do the same. Let's just compare, shall we?

2004 Jets/ 2007 Chiefs-advantage

Center: Mawae/Wiegman-push
OG: Kendall/Waters-Chiefs
OG: Moore/Welbourn-Chiefs
OT: McInzie/McIntire-Push
OT: Fabini/Terry-Chiefs
TE: Chiefs

The previous example is of 2004. This was the highest production Herm's O-line had while he was in NY. I think that with the line K.C. has, they can duplicate this performane at the very least. Hell, they practically did it last year, and the only person they lost was an old Shields. You can't tell me Shields by himself was responsible for all 1600 yards LJ ran for last year. As for pass defense, we have yet to see what their capable of as a unit, but it's not like Herm's offense is all that pass oriented anyway. All the QB needs to do is run the Play-Action effectively.

As for your second point of making the playoffs, if Kansas City had won those last two games to get in, and those other teams had all won, but lost games previously in the season to allow K.C. the opportunity to make the playoffs, would you still be saying we "backed in." OBVIOUSLY you don't understand what it means to "back in" to the playoffs. "Backing into the playoffs" means you lose your last game, but others lose which allows you to still be in the playoffs. In order to "back in" you have to be in position to do so. In order to be in position, you have to be in a top 6 seed in the playoff hunt. K.C. was 9th. They had to win. They had to EARN that spot. Just because other teams choked, doesn't mean K.C. didn't put themselves in position to take advantage.

As to your third point, yes. It was a rediculous offensive performance in the playoffs. But, at least they scored. The only thing I can think of in rescent memory that can even compare is when a defense couldn't stop the Colt offense EVEN ONCE in the ONLY postseason appearance Vermiel had with his "dominant" 13-3 Chiefs team in 2003.

How quickly we forget.

chief31
05-04-2007, 02:57 PM
[quote=chief31;7654]

It is the Herm Edwards offense that is a problem. Since and including '01, his Jets teams have finished; 24th; 22nd; 19th; 12th; and 31st in offensive yards from scrimmage. That means that only one Herm offense has ever finished ahead of, even, a Cowher offense.)


In his carreer, Herm has drafted one O-linman, higher than the last pick, in the fourth round. (OT Kareem McKenzie, 2001 draft, now of the N.Y. Giants.) In his final draft, with the N.Y.Jets, he failed to draft one offensive lineman, well after the need made itself obvious.[quote]

This is my response to the Jets O-line. Grand, they were one-dimensional enough to get some rushing stats for Curtis Martin. A guy who had no future, without Herm?????? Curtis was a very good running back, with, or without Herm.

Yes, I am Quoting myself, here. It is easier than retyping the message that got missed, previously.

chief31
05-04-2007, 03:03 PM
[quote=texaschief;7771]

As for your second point of making the playoffs, if Kansas City had won those last two games to get in, and those other teams had all won, but lost games previously in the season to allow K.C. the opportunity to make the playoffs, would you still be saying we "backed in." OBVIOUSLY you don't understand what it means to "back in" to the playoffs. "Backing into the playoffs" means you lose your last game, but others lose which allows you to still be in the playoffs. In order to "back in" you have to be in position to do so. In order to be in position, you have to be in a top 6 seed in the playoff hunt. K.C. was 9th. They had to win. They had to EARN that spot. Just because other teams choked, doesn't mean K.C. didn't put themselves in position to take advantage.

[quote]


How about you quote my saying "backed in". We didn't back in. Nor did I say we did. What I said, and what happened, is everyone else backed out.

chief31
05-04-2007, 03:06 PM
As to your third point, yes. It was a rediculous offensive performance in the playoffs. But, at least they scored. The only thing I can think of in rescent memory that can even compare is when a defense couldn't stop the Colt offense EVEN ONCE in the ONLY postseason appearance Vermiel had with his "dominant" 13-3 Chiefs team in 2003.

How quickly we forget.


Let me see, a defense that got beaten by the number one offense, in the NFL, versus an offense that got beaten by the worst defense in the NFL. I'd rather hang my hat on the "beaten by the best" scenario.

Chiefster
05-04-2007, 06:16 PM
The previous example is of 2004. This was the highest production Herm's O-line had while he was in NY. I think that with the line K.C. has, they can duplicate this performane at the very least. Hell, they practically did it last year, and the only person they lost was an old Shields. You can't tell me Shields by himself was responsible for all 1600 yards LJ ran for last year. As for pass defense, we have yet to see what their capable of as a unit, but it's not like Herm's offense is all that pass oriented anyway. All the QB needs to do is run the Play-Action effectively.

I think that it is reasonable to assume just that to a large degree since most of those yards came with LJ running up the middle where Shields was paving the way.


As for your second point of making the playoffs, if Kansas City had won those last two games to get in, and those other teams had all won, but lost games previously in the season to allow K.C. the opportunity to make the playoffs, would you still be saying we "backed in." OBVIOUSLY you don't understand what it means to "back in" to the playoffs. "Backing into the playoffs" means you lose your last game, but others lose which allows you to still be in the playoffs. In order to "back in" you have to be in position to do so. In order to be in position, you have to be in a top 6 seed in the playoff hunt. K.C. was 9th. They had to win. They had to EARN that spot. Just because other teams choked, doesn't mean K.C. didn't put themselves in position to take advantage.

If if's and buts where candy and nuts we'd all have a big party. Speculating on what might have been as opposed to what is/was is not an effective way to prove a point, but I can appreciate the amount of thought it took.

wolfpack
05-04-2007, 07:46 PM
i just wish the queen had the balls to hire a young coach who knew alittle bit of both sides but had the know how of letting his coaching staff on both sides of the ball help him. both dickie and hermmie have the same problem, they forgot what the otherside of the ball looks like. but i guess hermmie didnt really forget,he has three kickers. we can score now!

kenny1937
05-05-2007, 05:54 PM
I agree wolfpack, and with all those kickers, you can see he plans to kick the south ends of teams heading north. (grin)

:wheelchair: We need those kickers, our defense will set up our offense to kick 10 to 15 field goals a game, I talked it over with our coaches and they assured me that I made the right call, so there!!

Chiefster
05-05-2007, 11:51 PM
I really don't think we will keep three kickers; one will be released during preseason or be placed on the practice squad.

stlchief
05-05-2007, 11:59 PM
ah, texaschief.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The only way we should have kept LJ is if we were a bonifide contender for the super bowl. Guess what, we're not.

Keeping him will will do one of 2 things: allow him to take 10% of the salary cap in 08 and later OR franchise him and hope that someone matches the offer.

Chiefster
05-06-2007, 12:04 AM
ah, texaschief.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The only way we should have kept LJ is if we were a bonifide contender for the super bowl. Guess what, we're not.

Keeping him will will do one of 2 things: allow him to take 10% of the salary cap in 08 and later OR franchise him and hope that someone matches the offer.

...Won't happen.